00:09Welcome back to From the South. In Venezuela, the communes constitute a network of political
00:14practices that uphold the Bolivarian revolutionary process even under conditions of imperialist
00:20teach. To go deeper into this idea, we are joined today by a very special guest, political
00:25scientist, popular educator and also activist of the Venezuelan communal movement. Cira
00:31Pascual, welcome to From the South. A pleasure to have you. Thank you, Alejandra. Thank you
00:35so much. It is important to talk about communes. They are a special space for resistance and
00:40for construction. So thanks again. For sure. First, how important and also what does it
00:46mean to defend the Bolivarian revolution in 2026? Such a complex year that has been this
00:54one. And what's the role of the communes precisely in this purpose of defending the Bolivarian
00:59revolution? The Bolivarian revolution has been under siege for actually 27 years. Since the
01:06very beginning of the revolution, we have seen different aggressions, coups and coup attempts.
01:13And of course, over the last 10 years, the economic war against the people of Venezuela and against
01:21the government of Venezuela, the democratically elected government of Venezuela. So the people
01:29of Venezuela have been prepared over this period of time. But of course, since January 3rd, we have
01:35entered a new phase. Our president has been kidnapped. And this implies that we have to prepare for the
01:41struggle in different terms. But there is one continuity for the Bolivarian revolution, which is its
01:48substantive democracy. Chávez called it democracia participativa y protagónica. Protagonistic and democracy,
01:57the democracy of the people. And it's a democracy that is not restricted to conventional liberal bourgeois
02:05democracy. In a conventional democracy, what you can see is that people elect their representatives every
02:13two, four years. And then they step back from the political process. In Venezuela, it's totally different.
02:22Of course, in Venezuela, people elect their president and their assembly representatives. But there's a lot more
02:28to the Venezuelan democracy. It's a grassroots democracy. It's a democracy that's day to day in the communes.
02:34And what are communes? Communes are spaces for the reorganization of society.
02:39They are not only direct democracy spaces. They are also spaces for the reorganization of the economy,
02:46as Chávez proposed. In other words, communes walk on two legs. There's the direct participative
02:54democracy and also in the communes that have them. And this is a proposal by Chávez and we have to
03:00walk
03:00further in that direction. Communes should have means of production where new social revolutions emerge.
03:07And how do you imagine the future of communal democracy in Venezuela?
03:13Well, I mean, I think that the future of Venezuela is the commune. In other words,
03:20we live in a world that Venezuela has been under siege, as I was saying, already for 27 years. So,
03:28the people of Venezuela aspire to building a society in which they themselves, the people, the pueblo,
03:37are actually capable of deciding what to do, how to organize their life, what to do day to day,
03:43how to solve their problems. And in this sense, the commune is the epicenter for this reorganization of
03:50society. In other words, we are not going to have a life defined from outside, but it's a life of
03:58popular sovereignty where the people, the pueblo, define how to produce in terms of the problems that,
04:07of course, we face, how to solve them. And it's always with a profound democracy. Now, as I was saying
04:14before, it's not that restrictive small democracy that is offered in the conventional global north
04:24countries, but it is a democracy that is profound, that it is felt, that it is felt day to day.
04:31When
04:32people solve their problems collectively, they actually learn not only how to solve their specific
04:38problems, but they actually become political subjects in a different way. They actually learn how to
04:46debate. They learn how to solve contradictions. They learn how to really think about the world
04:52all together in a different way. And that is one of the most powerful things that we can center in
04:59terms of the debate about the Bolivarian revolution. So I think that that's the key to the future of
05:04Venezuela's revolution, the communes, the popular democracy, the popular sovereignty.
05:10And what Latin America, how could Latin American nations, and how could they learn from this,
05:18from this initiative, this idea that had commanded Hugo Chavez, and also what initiatives could be
05:26multiplied throughout the region? First, I think that in Latin America, we have to rethink about how to
05:34come together. Commander Chavez talked about integration and unity. And that is key in this
05:42moment in which US imperialism is particularly aggressive, and also where we have different
05:49right-wing governments, and even fascist governments in Argentina, for instance. So it's very, very important
05:57that we think about how to come together as pueblos, as people, and in terms of the progressive and
06:03revolutionary governments, how to build alliances. That's one issue. But then Venezuela has a lot to
06:09teach the Bolivarian revolution, and their siege for so many years continues to maintain this project
06:15of popular sovereignty. So I think that there's a lot to learn from the communes. The communes, as these
06:22spaces were, in the worst of conditions in some cases, of course, right now we have to remember our
06:29brothers and sisters in Cuba who are suffering the worst of the US blockade of imperialist violence.
06:37But in Venezuela, we have suffered a lot because of the US blockade, and also because of the actual
06:44military aggression on Venezuela, the attack and the kidnapping of our president. But even so,
06:50the project goes on because of all those teachings, of those collective teachings.
06:55Because actually, when we think about Chávez, we often think about him as a charismatic figure,
07:01as a person who was able to orient. But he was also a teacher, a popular educator, somebody who was
07:08able
07:08to bring together a reflection on the present situation, a historical reflection on life. And he was
07:17able to theorize in such a way that didn't simplify the complexities and the contradictions of the world in
07:24which we live. But that was actually very understandable for the people. And that's one of the
07:30really extraordinary things. So that's Chávez as a popular educator. But Chávez also promoted education
07:38with a mission. But then we go back to what I was saying before, this process that actually brings
07:45people to their assemblies, in their communal councils, in their communes, where people teach each other
07:51collectively, learn and teach each other collectively how to solve problems. So in that sense, the people of
07:58Venezuela are not only identified as subjects of transformation, but actually have the tools to
08:05transform their context. So when we think again about the continent, I think that that's one of the great
08:11teachings that the revolution brings. These expressions of popular democracy, of popular sovereignty, that we find
08:20in the communes that are really extraordinary, and that are really a collective exercise. But of course,
08:26they walk hand in hand with the government. They should not be understood as autonomous initiatives.
08:31The communes should not be understood as anarchist initiatives. They have a national horizon,
08:39a national emancipatory horizon, and they walk hand in hand with the government in spaces such as the
08:45popular consultations and other initiatives that are really important in the transformation, not only
08:51from the territory, but of the society as a whole. And how, from within the communes, Venezuela is giving voice
08:59to the just causes of the world, such as the Palestinian cause that you just mentioned?
09:03That is actually really important. It's 78 years since NAGWA. About a year and a half ago, Laila Khaled,
09:16the great revolutionary of Palestine, Palestinian revolutionary, she went to El Panal Commune,
09:23and some of the communards said to Laila, we want to go to struggle in Palestine for the liberation of
09:31the
09:31Palestinian people. And Laila said, no, you have to stay here, because you are making communes here.
09:36And when we are liberated, when Palestine is free, when Palestine is liberated, we want to actually learn
09:43from the Venezuelan communes. So it is your task to be here to defend the revolution and to make communes.
09:50That was very moving. It was actually a moment that brought tears and emotions to the people who were there,
09:58because it was clear that the destiny of the people of Palestine is not separate from the destiny of the
10:06people of Venezuela. Communes are teaching spaces. And when you are trying to solve a problem, specific
10:13problem, say, in a textile factory, you are making uniforms. And you are thinking about how to source
10:22your production, how to source the fabric, or whatever have you. And then you begin to think
10:29about where the actual fabric, which is generally in Venezuela we are not producing fabric, where it
10:35comes from. How can we source it? How can we source it outside of the capitalist circuit? And that makes
10:42you kind of like project your own reality onto the reality of other working class folks around the
10:49world, and to think about how to go beyond this imposition that the capitalist system puts on us.
11:00And the best way to overcome the imposition of a system that is predatory is to do it collectively,
11:07as the working class of Venezuela, of Palestine, etc., as the people who have lived under conditions of
11:18imperialist or colonial domination, and who struggle for collective liberation. Here in Venezuela we have
11:28privileged conditions to advance, because we have a revolutionary government. Of course, not everything is
11:34perfect, there's a lot to do, but we really have, even though we are under siege by the United States,
11:40privileged
11:40conditions with the government, with the project, with the communes, with the people who are organized, who have
11:45been learning over 27 years how to do it, who, of course, along the way will make mistakes. We will
11:51make mistakes
11:52along the way. Those mistakes will be corrected, because we have a process, which is the laboratory, because in the
11:58commune is not just about doing, it's about doing and reflecting on what you do, and about correcting.
12:04And because we do that hand-on-hand with the government, that's a revolutionary government,
12:09that opens a path for a better future. Thank you very much, Sira, for your time here from the South,
12:15for getting us through the landscape, the social and political landscape of Venezuela. It's such a crucial
12:21moment for the Venezuelan society, for the communes. Communes are nothing. It is the call of the day.
12:27That's right, commune or nothing, comuna or nada. Thank you. Thank you.
12:31We just went deeper into Venezuela's social and political landscape with Sira Pascual,
12:38political scientist, popular educator, and activist of the Venezuelan communal movement.
12:43And after this exclusive interview, we have come to the end as well of this news brief.
12:48For Telesur English, I'm Alejandra García. Thank you for watching.
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