- 5 days ago
CTP (S3EMaySpecial5) BooksAuthorsWeekMay2026 Grace After Relapse
Exploring more of the fascinating intersection of Activism, Community Engagement, Faith / Religion, Human Nature, Politics, Social Issues, and beyond
We talk with S.E. Schritter about turning a devastating family story into a memoir that helps other people face addiction, relapse, shame, and grief with honesty and grace. We also get practical about writing and publishing, from creative nonfiction craft to word count, pricing, and making books accessible.
• pronouncing a hard last name and jumping into Author Week
• growing up near Chicago and moving through Minnesota, Oregon, and South Carolina
• the heart of Prodigal Son and why readers respond to addiction recovery memoirs
• relapse inside a marriage and the reality of hidden drinking
• a DUI crash, legal fallout, and the shock of a cancer diagnosis
• writing from wounds while protecting the reader’s clarity and focus
• editing hard, cutting chapters, and thinking about page count and cost
• the Oxford comma debate and why details change meaning
We like and subscribe to Christitutionalist Politics Podcast and share episodes. We need your help.
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https://tinyurl.com/CTPgear
https://tinyurl.com/JLenardDetroitGear
Exploring more of the fascinating intersection of Activism, Community Engagement, Faith / Religion, Human Nature, Politics, Social Issues, and beyond
We talk with S.E. Schritter about turning a devastating family story into a memoir that helps other people face addiction, relapse, shame, and grief with honesty and grace. We also get practical about writing and publishing, from creative nonfiction craft to word count, pricing, and making books accessible.
• pronouncing a hard last name and jumping into Author Week
• growing up near Chicago and moving through Minnesota, Oregon, and South Carolina
• the heart of Prodigal Son and why readers respond to addiction recovery memoirs
• relapse inside a marriage and the reality of hidden drinking
• a DUI crash, legal fallout, and the shock of a cancer diagnosis
• writing from wounds while protecting the reader’s clarity and focus
• editing hard, cutting chapters, and thinking about page count and cost
• the Oxford comma debate and why details change meaning
We like and subscribe to Christitutionalist Politics Podcast and share episodes. We need your help.
SEND US FEEDBACK: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2210487/fan_mail/new
https://tinyurl.com/SubscribeToCTP
CTP Audios: https://tinyurl.com/CTPonBuzzsprout
CTP Videos: https://tinyurl.com/CTPonBITCHUTE
https://tinyurl.com/CTPgear
https://tinyurl.com/JLenardDetroitGear
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FunTranscript
00:00Hello, welcome to another episode of Perstitutionalist Podcast.
00:06I am your host, Joseph M. Leonard.
00:09That's L-E-N-A-R-D.
00:12It looks French.
00:13It's not.
00:14It's Leonard without an O.
00:17Thank you for tuning in, as Graham Norton used to say, on his show.
00:24Let's get on with the show!
00:25Hello, welcome to Deja Vu Week.
00:30No, that's not what it is, but kind of, sort of.
00:36Welcome to Books Slash Authors Week, May 2026, just coming out of April 2026, Books Slash Authors
00:49Week, and October Books Slash Authors Weeks of October 2025.
00:58So, yes, you guessed it.
01:01It's all about cucumbers, and tomatoes, and deli shopping, books.
01:08Books, let's get on a guest.
01:13Joining me today, not going to bother to even attempt to pronounce her last name, S-E-
01:21Schritter.
01:23Schritter.
01:24Schritter.
01:25Most of the letters are silent.
01:26Yeah.
01:26The G is silent.
01:27In post, I'll put the scrawl on the bottom for the behind-the-scenes video viewers, and
01:35for the benefit of the audio and the transcript, the last name is T-S-C-H-R-I-T
01:44-T-E-R.
01:46Yes.
01:47Okay.
01:47Very German.
01:48Yes.
01:49Yeah.
01:49Silent T, Schritter.
01:51Okay.
01:52I guess I get.
01:53Yeah.
01:55Keeler on my mom's side, so I'm part of German heritage.
02:00Yeah.
02:00I grew up, you know, Lewis, and then last name was Evans, my late husband, and then Schritter.
02:08So.
02:09Well, at least your book hasn't been put through the Schritter.
02:15That's true.
02:16Right?
02:17Nice.
02:18Just the way my ADHD, OCD brain works.
02:22Perfect.
02:22But I wanted to hit record right away, and before we get into what you're here for, what
02:28we were talking about before hitting record, I was on Mango Monday Music X-Base, and good
02:36thing the Zoom notice popped up.
02:39I don't know.
02:40So I'm scrambling.
02:41Oh, my God.
02:42My meeting starts.
02:43I forgot because I didn't set my alarm clock.
02:46You were saying about setting alarm clock, too?
02:49Yeah, I did.
02:50I mean, there was one interview that I had three minutes to get ready for because I missed
02:54it.
02:55It was like, you know, like changing clothes and makeup, got just a tiny bit, and three
03:01minutes.
03:02Like, total transformation.
03:04So I hear you.
03:05And you were saying you're currently in a new book, the creation of, I've been writing
03:12my next new short story.
03:14That'll be a Kindle exclusive.
03:16It's going to drop in a couple weeks in May of 2026.
03:20So, yeah, so you're, you're in the middle of your next book.
03:26Yeah.
03:27And, and, you know, when you start getting into that space where you're in, for me, it's
03:31fiction, right?
03:32So I totally disappear into another world.
03:36And then my kids call and they're like, mom, I need, and I, like, I remember that I have
03:40children again.
03:41Like, it's, it's just a really weird, so, yeah.
03:46Yeah.
03:46Who are you?
03:47Right, right, right.
03:50I released a book.
03:51I don't see, I don't see you on my pages here.
03:53Who are you?
03:54I don't, yeah, what's your name?
03:55I don't understand what's happening.
03:57Right, yeah.
03:58You expect the characters to call you.
04:01That's what you expect.
04:01Yes, yes.
04:02All right.
04:03So what, now that all that weird stuff that wasn't planned is out of the way, let's back
04:10up to the actual planned stuff.
04:14First, where were you born and raised significant, where are you now, significant places you may
04:20have been in between, that sort of thing?
04:23Sure.
04:23I was born in, well, a suburb of Chicago, Illinois.
04:27I tell most people Chicago.
04:30I'm joking, people.
04:32I'm joking.
04:32Detroit area for me.
04:34Pistons, Bulls, yeah, all right.
04:37I definitely lived there during the, like, the three-peat, you know.
04:43Boo!
04:45Yeah, right, right.
04:46Well, not for people in Chicago.
04:48Anyway, and then I went to school.
04:51I went to a Christian school in St. Paul, Minnesota.
04:56I lived in Oregon for a little bit, back to Minnesota.
04:59Minnesota, and my current husband, because my late husband passed away in 2019.
05:05I remarried in 2020.
05:09I can't even use numbers anymore.
05:112023 is when I remarried, 10-10-23, and he was transferred to Simpsonville, South Carolina
05:18for work.
05:18So that is where we are now.
05:21Okay.
05:22Minnesota, eh?
05:24Minnesota.
05:24It's almost like a Canadian accent.
05:28Suri, man, not Suri.
05:30Coo, coo, coo, coo, coo, coo, coo, coo, the Great White North, yeah.
05:34You're so fun.
05:35Yeah, no.
05:36The Mall of America.
05:38I wouldn't go there now.
05:40That area is so out of control with crime and whatnot, but love the Mall of America.
05:47For those who don't know, it used to be the world's biggest mall.
05:51Don't know if it is anymore.
05:52Or converted from an old baseball park.
05:56In fact, they still have an upper deck seat at the top of the corner.
06:02And in the middle, there's a mini amusement park where the field used to be.
06:07There are roller coasters, multiple roller coasters inside the mall.
06:12A log flume, is it still there?
06:14Yeah.
06:14Love that place.
06:15As far as I know.
06:18Haven't been there in decades.
06:20Again, I wouldn't go now.
06:23I was there in 2023.
06:26Oh, were you?
06:27Yeah.
06:27And you're here to, you live to tell the tale, huh?
06:31I did, yeah.
06:32Yeah.
06:32Well, I was about to say, I wouldn't suggest flying into Minnesota to go to Mall of America
06:39like I did a couple times, unless you could also afford full-time armed bodyguards to be
06:46with you.
06:48I survived.
06:49I'm okay.
06:50And I'm saying that as somebody from a Detroit suburb.
06:54Detroit's a lot better nowadays.
06:55It's pretty clean, actually.
06:58Anyway, way down another rabbit hole again.
07:01And that's the Prodigal Son Crackhead to Jesus Freak, book one, addiction recovery support
07:10series.
07:11First thing that comes to mind, I got to ask, is this partly inspired by the MyPillow Mike
07:18Lindell guy from Crackhead to CEO book?
07:22No?
07:22No, not at all.
07:24It is a memoir.
07:27It is creative nonfiction.
07:29And my late husband was a crack addict and an alcoholic and became a pastor and then relapsed.
07:37So it's this whole journey of addiction and relapse and grace and overcoming shame and the
07:45battle of addiction.
07:46Uh-huh.
07:47And you're with Mickey Mickelson, right?
07:52Yes.
07:52I am.
07:53Yes.
07:53We both know Mickey.
07:56On his release, it says, now on pre-sale with a release in January 26th.
08:03Well, we're recording in April of 2026.
08:06So the book is out now, yes?
08:08The book is out, yeah.
08:09And it spent the first two months on the bestseller list and it's doing really well.
08:14So it's been good.
08:17A lot of reviews are coming in and saying thank you for writing this book.
08:21So it's been a powerful tool to help other people who are going through either like who
08:26know someone who's battling addiction or going through their own battles with addiction.
08:31It's been really great.
08:32Yeah.
08:33Mike Lindell's book did really well from crackhead to CEO, the MyPillow founder.
08:40There is an appetite for things like this because so many people, if they're not directly going
08:47through that struggle, it can be an analogy or a metaphor for their struggles and can help
08:55them.
08:55Yes.
08:56Yes.
08:56Yeah.
08:57Shame.
08:57Everyone battles shame and feeling insufficient at times.
09:01So it definitely touches everyone in that way.
09:05Okay.
09:06Well, thanks for stopping by.
09:07Bye-bye.
09:08No, I'm kidding.
09:09It's a joke, people.
09:11I like to keep my show short, but not that short.
09:15All right.
09:16All right.
09:16Well, I'm going to go back to writing my fictional character since you brought it up
09:22again.
09:23This is the one you're working on a sequel because this one's called subtitle book one.
09:29It is called book one.
09:30Yeah.
09:30If I write a sequel, it's going to be called the widow's might and it'll be more from my
09:34perspective of dealing with the loss of a spouse.
09:38However, right now I'm doing fiction because I just needed a break from that really, really
09:42hard.
09:43That was like a soul-sucking book, not going to lie.
09:46It was a rough one.
09:49Yeah, I can imagine, indeed.
09:52Most, well, I have fiction and nonfiction.
09:57Nonfiction is more based on this show, our Judeo-Christian Foundation's educational series
10:05nonfiction.
10:06Most of my other books are indeed fiction.
10:10And I, but as they say, write what you know.
10:14Right.
10:15So even things from my life certainly get fictionalized and get put in there.
10:21And the same with you, I take it?
10:23A hundred percent.
10:23Yeah.
10:24Like even like sometimes I had a character, I was describing her and I needed to just put
10:30her in an outfit and I was wearing burgundy sweats.
10:33So my character is wearing burgundy sweats because it doesn't matter, but you, she needs
10:39clothes.
10:39So grab a pair of burgundy sweats.
10:43Like be creative or you need to be creative and, you know, use.
10:49Right, exactly.
10:50No, no, would have been no sense spending a week and a half, pun intended, since you mentioned
10:58sweats, sweating over that detail.
11:01Right.
11:02What is she going to, just what, the first thing that comes to mind.
11:05And then it's kind of like Mad Libs almost writing a book.
11:08And I mean, unless if it really matters, obviously in certain cases, in certain scenes, they need
11:15to be attired a particular way.
11:18And that's why you would describe it as such.
11:21It's part of the setting or it describes the character more.
11:23Yeah.
11:24Yes.
11:24But it doesn't matter.
11:26Don't spend too much time on it.
11:30I'm going to hold this up close to the camera so people could kind of see the cover on the
11:35behind the scenes video.
11:37I have a copy, like not too far away.
11:40I can't put my headphones in.
11:41Well, most listen over the 40-ish audio platforms.
11:47I only have five video channels.
11:50So, but I still like to drop the video behind the scenes.
11:54I prefer video.
11:57I like to see, I want to see the person and, you know, my Italian background and my hands
12:06waving, right?
12:07I suppose it's harder if people are driving though.
12:09They're just going to do the audio then, right?
12:12Exactly.
12:12Right.
12:13And about the short shows I was joking by, but I try to keep my shows around 30 minutes.
12:20That way, you know, your lunch break, 10 minutes to the diner, order your food, put on the podcast,
12:29eat, you're done with your food, the podcast is done, pay, go home or go back to work.
12:36I like that.
12:37That's really smart.
12:38That's a smart business strategy, actually.
12:41Yeah.
12:42It's almost as if I actually thought about it.
12:45Right.
12:46Nice.
12:47It just kind of works that way and I apply that ex post facto now.
12:54But I did coin today's Twitter, TikTok attention span.
12:59Everybody wants short.
13:02Yeah, they do.
13:03It's the same thing with the book, right?
13:05You have to hook them in the first page or the first paragraph or.
13:11Are you writing full length novels?
13:15I am.
13:16Yes.
13:17That's my, that's my goal.
13:18Romantic suspense is what I'm headed for right now.
13:21So, okay.
13:22Yeah.
13:23I find of late, I've been writing novelettes.
13:27And like I said, the one I'm working on now, so I could try to make it a 99 cent
13:32Kindle ebook exclusive
13:34because got to help them stretch their entertainment dollar.
13:38And again, the attention span thing.
13:41So novelettes are shorter.
13:44Oh, I might read that then.
13:46And otherwise, you know, anybody trying to write war and peace today, you know, good luck with that.
13:52Right.
13:52Exactly.
13:53Yeah.
13:53They look at the page count and they're like, no, thanks.
13:56Yeah.
13:58Exactly.
13:59And of course, the higher the page count, the higher the print cost.
14:04Well, with ebook, it matters less.
14:07But yeah, actual print books.
14:11Right.
14:11Higher the page count, the higher the cost, the higher the MSRP of the book has to be.
14:18And we got to be mindful of people's budgets these days.
14:21Yes.
14:22Yeah.
14:22You want to make it as accessible as possible.
14:24That's why I made Prodigal Son available on Kindle Unlimited because I, you know, if people
14:29have the subscription, then go for it.
14:31You know, they may not otherwise read it if it's not in the Kindle Select or Kindle Unlimited
14:40availability.
14:41So, okay.
14:43Well, let's talk.
14:47Coming into the room in the last minute, you could see.
14:50In fact, I was just on Suno before this because I was listening to Mango Monday Music, X-Base.
14:58A couple of my tunes are played in the space.
15:02And I've had an ongoing running gag for decades now.
15:07Mornings, Bah Hongbuk.
15:09They'd be great if they came around 1 p.m. instead.
15:13Right?
15:13So, the light bulb went on.
15:17I should do a song.
15:19Mornings, Bah Hongbuk.
15:21So, that's another thing I just did before the Zoom alert said, hey, you got a meeting
15:27in five minutes, dummy.
15:29You better get ready.
15:32So, my – in fact, a line in there, my brain still foggy but feeling a bit squirrely.
15:42And that's exactly my space right now.
15:46I'm like, ah, interview?
15:48How do you do these things?
15:52So, just take over what do you really want to tell the audience?
16:00Oh, my gosh.
16:02All right.
16:04I was looking forward to, like, a question to answer.
16:08Tell us about life.
16:11So, like I said, Prodigal Son was super hard to write emotionally because it was my late
16:16husband's story.
16:18He actually asked me to write his story.
16:20So, he had been a crack addict when he was 19, and he said, God knocked him upside the
16:28head with a two-by-four.
16:29That was his wording.
16:30With a cross.
16:31Right?
16:31Like, he just, bam.
16:33And then he became sober after that, but he relapsed into alcohol.
16:37He never relapsed into crack addiction, but he relapsed into alcohol in the beginning
16:41of our marriage.
16:42And then he was sober for about nine and a half years.
16:46And there was a weekend, he had been telling me, like, hey, Sam, I've been sober for nine
16:51years.
16:51You can buy some alcohol if you want, which a lot of people told me, like, was him asking
16:58me to buy it because, right?
17:01He wanted it around.
17:02He wanted it around.
17:03He was, and so, but I didn't know.
17:05Anyway, I had alcohol in the house, and I had made a drink or two over the course of
17:10a couple weeks.
17:11I'm not an alcoholic, so the alcohol just sat there.
17:14It just, it was there.
17:17And I went away for a writing weekend, and that same weekend, his mentor slipped on the
17:22steps.
17:23We're talking Minnesota, January, right?
17:25Slipped on ice, fell back, hit his head, and went into a coma and passed away a week
17:31later.
17:32Oh.
17:33This was, this is my, this is my real life.
17:37And I was gone, and my late husband, Clint, relapsed that weekend.
17:43He was a pastor, and he didn't tell me about his relapse.
17:47So he relapsed at the end of January in 2017.
17:51And I, like, March, April, I caught him once.
17:54Like, I just saw that the level of the vodka bottle was low.
17:58And I was like, you need to not drink.
18:01You can't drink.
18:02You can't drink.
18:02And he's like, fine, fine.
18:04You know, and I just, I was in denial at that point because he was a pastor.
18:08Things were going well.
18:09I was like, everything's fine.
18:10It's fine.
18:15It's fine.
18:16No.
18:17At that point.
18:18Not at that point.
18:19In the beginning of our marriage, and this is, these stories are in the book.
18:22There is some blackout drinking at the beginning of our marriage.
18:26But at this point, he was, it was like he was just drinking enough to feel good.
18:31Drinking enough to, you know, just to make it.
18:35But he was also still trying to hide it because he had all these other responsibilities.
18:40So, and then I caught him again in September, and we had a come to Jesus moment.
18:45I was like, you are choosing between your family and alcohol, which for an addict, there's
18:50not necessarily a choice.
18:52The addiction chooses them.
18:55However, I was like, you are choosing, if I'm not going back through another, we called
19:00it Chicago, our dark years.
19:01Like the two years that we lived in Chicago were the two years that he was relapsing on
19:05and off.
19:06And then we ended up moving out to Oregon after that, and he was able to get sober, stay
19:11sober.
19:14However, I was like, you are choosing, you are choosing between your family and alcohol.
19:19And we had three daughters at that point.
19:21I'm not making them go through blackout drunk again.
19:24I'm not, we're not doing this.
19:25We're not doing this.
19:27And so I think in his mind, he got this really defiant look, which unless you've seen the
19:33look, you can't understand it.
19:34But he got this defiant look and in his head, he started thinking, I can't drink at home.
19:39I can't drink at home.
19:41I can't drink at home.
19:42So he went, he was playing semi-pro football at the time.
19:47And he drove an hour from...
19:49What team?
19:51Semi-pro.
19:52So it was the Warhawks in Minnesota is what he was playing for.
19:56For those who may know it, shout out to them.
19:59And he played for Sabercats.
20:01He played for a bunch of teams in Minnesota and had, it was, that's in the book too.
20:06There are some football stories in the book.
20:09And he was on the Sabercats and he was center.
20:14The Arena Football League team or a different Sabercats?
20:17It's different than Arena.
20:18Oh, okay.
20:19But he played Arena too.
20:21He somehow figured out how to make football, like, last all year long in our house.
20:28Football was not just NFL that started in the fall.
20:32It was, you know, you had the, you have semi-pro which practiced and then you had arena football
20:38in the summer and you do the draft in the spring.
20:43And so he figured out how to make football last for forever.
20:47Uh, I used to have all sorts of things, like statistics memorized that I, like I had no
20:55business knowing, but he just, it was always football.
20:58Uh, anyway, so he, he played for these teams.
21:02He went away, he, he had to drive about an hour to get to practice that particular day.
21:08And on the way back, he stopped at a gas station, grabbed some small bottles that you can grab
21:15and he drank, uh, and he drank a bunch of them.
21:19And I, I, I'm not even sure if he stopped and drank again, or if it was just a one
21:25-time thing,
21:25but the alcohol, because he hadn't been drinking that much, the alcohol hit him much quicker
21:31than it did at the, you know, when he was younger and it hit him harder.
21:37And so he was still driving when he got drunk.
21:41He was about 13 miles from home.
21:43No one was injured.
21:44I will say that.
21:45Thank God.
21:47He, this would be funny if it wasn't, if it wasn't so terrible, but he got turned around
21:53and around about.
21:54Like, missed the turn.
21:56Oh, I hate those things.
21:58He like, he was drunk.
22:00Round and around and around and around.
22:02That is kind of funny.
22:04It is a little funny.
22:05So he was supposed to be going home, turned around, went back the way he was going and
22:09into this other town and got in a drunk driving accident.
22:13I got a call at one 30 in the morning.
22:17Ms. Evans, this is Sergeant Jeremy Reed with the Newham Police Department.
22:20There's been an accident.
22:21Uh, your husband is taken to the hospital.
22:24When he's released from the hospital, he will be arrested for the felony charge of fleeing
22:28police.
22:30So that was that.
22:31I saw that.
22:32Yes.
22:36And then six hours later, the hospital called and said, Ms. Evans, we found something on
22:40the CAT scan.
22:42Again, this is my real life.
22:44So he went to jail with a potential cancer diagnosis, which turned out to be a cancer
22:51diagnosis.
22:52Like I saw that in the right up.
22:54Yeah.
22:54I'm glad you're bringing it up.
22:56Exactly.
22:57This is all the addiction stuff.
23:01Someone could relate to the cancer thing or.
23:04Yeah.
23:04It's this whole, the whole thing.
23:06And I was like, I was stuck on.
23:09He lied to me.
23:10He drank and he drove and hit it from me.
23:15And I am paying the price for his choices.
23:18I was stuck there and the rest of the world was cancer, cancer, cancer.
23:22The sky is falling.
23:23The sky is falling.
23:23And so there was a lot of grief to try to pack into one tiny little moment.
23:30And somewhere in the midst of that, it was, he lived 20 months diagnosis to death.
23:35And somewhere in the midst of that, he said, Sam, what are the chances I would be married
23:40to an author whose best work comes from wounds?
23:43I want you to write my story.
23:45I want you to interview me.
23:46And I want you to write my story.
23:48I didn't, I didn't want to, because I knew how dark it was.
23:52Yeah.
23:52You get too close to a subject at times.
23:55We'd been married 14 years at that point.
23:58Like I lived a lot of the dark with him and knew that part of my, part of his story
24:03would
24:03be part of my story.
24:05But to honor him and to honor people who battle addiction or battle shame, we really wanted
24:11it to happen.
24:12We wanted people to know that no matter how badly you screw up, God still loves you.
24:17And that his love for you is not based on what you do or what you don't do.
24:23So if it were a movie, it's one of those things, you know, based on a true story and
24:30people walk out of the theater saying, no, I don't believe that at all.
24:34Right.
24:34No, but this really happened.
24:36All that happened.
24:37Yeah.
24:37And I didn't choose cancer.
24:39Cancer chose me too.
24:41I didn't choose this lack of the hairdo, the chemo.
24:44So I keep it shaved now.
24:46So I can relate to that part of the story.
24:50Yes.
24:51Yeah.
24:51That was absolutely, it's, I still tell people my story and they look at me like, are you
24:58serious?
24:59I'm like, yeah, I wrote it in a creative nonfiction style.
25:02So it's written like fiction.
25:04Oh, that's better.
25:05Yeah.
25:06I, I, I've got a better.
25:08Yes.
25:08I've got a book, how to write a book and get it published to help people who have a story
25:14and them get it out from creation.
25:16Yeah.
25:17You know, character building, scenery building, publishing options, reviews and promotion
25:24at blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
25:26But I bring that up not to try to promote that book, but.
25:30You're allowed to, it's your show.
25:32But to make the point, memoirs, John, the memoir of John Doe, well, who the hell is John
25:40Doe and why should I care?
25:42But the story of John Doe fictionalized can tell great tales and give life lessons.
25:52Yes.
25:52Right.
25:53Right.
25:53So you're not just telling someone's life, you're inviting them into it.
25:57That's, that's the difference, but it's still very much nonfiction.
26:02There are a couple of scenes where I have to combine the different conversations or things
26:08that happen and pull them into one scene, but they all happen individually.
26:12It just.
26:13They're a conglom, yeah.
26:14It's like one of my, I love the movie Patriot Games with Wahlberg about the marathon, Boston
26:24Marathon bombing, same thing in books is with movies and that movie, Mark Wahlberg's character
26:30was a conglomeration or a compilation or, you know, several people of that day, because
26:38you can't have 50,000 characters in a movie or a book.
26:43It gets too confusing.
26:44So like in your case, you took things that kind of sort of happened at different times,
26:50but did happen, but squeeze them into one scene that makes more sense.
26:56One particular scene I did that with was visitations to homebound or shut-ins.
27:01He would go deliver communion to people all the time.
27:04As pastoral duties.
27:06Correct.
27:07But no one wants to read about 16 different pastoral visits.
27:11Bingo.
27:12Perfect example.
27:14So you take the pieces of all of them and it's one character that he goes to visit twice
27:19in the book and two different times and it matters, but the pieces of it are all real.
27:27And Millie, this character is, like you said, like a conglomeration of probably about 30 different
27:34people that he was going to visit.
27:36Yeah.
27:3630 visitations, people would be just too confused.
27:40They wouldn't do it.
27:40Not able to follow.
27:41Like, why do we care?
27:42That's not what it's about.
27:43But to show that he did visitations and to show what he was talking about when he did
27:48those visitations, that piece was very important.
27:51You could save the other characters for the extended.
27:54I like to joke.
27:55I don't even want to go there.
27:56I'm going to grab it, right?
27:59There's the Google Define.
28:01There is a short story, typically under 7,500 words.
28:05Novelette ranges 7,500 to 17,000 words.
28:09Novella, 17.5 to 40K words.
28:13Novel, 40,000 or more.
28:16And I dare say there should be a new category called Novel X.
28:21Anything over 450 pages is too big for most people nowadays.
28:28That should be its own category.
28:30Anything over 450 pages, the user should be warned.
28:37And this is a novel extend or a director's cut, if you will, right?
28:42The extended version of it.
28:47Yes, 100%.
28:48I had to cut thousands of words.
28:50Because when I first wrote the book, I was writing it to write it.
28:53Just get it out.
28:54First version is for the writer, right?
28:56First version is for you.
28:58And then you go through and you say, okay, people aren't going to care about this.
29:01They're not going to care about this.
29:03I was name dropping stuff because I wanted to honor people that were part of the story.
29:08But in the end, readers aren't going to understand who those people are.
29:12They're not going to get it.
29:13And it wasn't adding enough to it.
29:18So I ended up just taking some of it out, unfortunately.
29:21I hear you.
29:21My terror strike's coming soon to the city near you.
29:25I cut whole chapters.
29:27I'm a former IT guy, but I cut out the cybersecurity chapter.
29:31I cut out this chapter, that chapter.
29:34Because indeed, again, a 500-page book is too big.
29:39The story in that now is 250-ish pages, the overall book, 286 or so.
29:47That cost starts to get up too high then.
29:51Yeah.
29:52And it's hard for readers because we're talking about word count, but then you translate that
29:56to page numbers.
29:57Yeah, I've got that broken down on my sheet.
30:02Oh, yeah.
30:02Tell me.
30:03Like, yeah, novel.
30:06The 40,000 words or more, around 196,000 characters.
30:12Because when you're writing, you're not just dealing in words or page size.
30:19You're dealing in character count, word count, all that, you know.
30:24Prodigal Son was about 90,000 words.
30:27Prodigal Son is like 300 pages, but there's a lot of space in there because there are actually
30:33images and things like that.
30:36So there are chapter breaks and things.
30:39I like including occasional images too.
30:43That's the honor of the benefit, yeah, of modern publishing.
30:48You don't have to literally typeset the pages.
30:53And putting a picture on a page in a book 50 years ago was a big deal.
31:00Now with it all digital, you could throw them in all over the place.
31:04And it's just standard color printing.
31:08Well, black and white printing, but yeah.
31:11I recently learned about the Oxford comma too.
31:14Oh, I'm glad you brought that up because I can't remember what other Mickey author I had on.
31:23And we were joking about that because Mickey in his release, Marriage, Murder, Something.
31:32It was that, not Maria Jane, oh, oh, I don't remember.
31:37Was it like Murder, Mystery, Mayhem?
31:40Something like that.
31:42And you know, Murder, comma, Mystery, comma, Mayhem, and Mayhem.
31:47And he left one of the commas out that was actually in the title.
31:52So we joked for like 15 minutes about the Oxford comma and how it matters.
31:59Yes, but people took it out because it saved Mickey to it.
32:02Yeah, exactly your point.
32:04Yes, it saved ink.
32:07Isn't that crazy?
32:09A comma.
32:10A hundred years ago, one comma on this page across 300 pages adds up to significant ink.
32:21But today, we argue the Oxford comma has to be there because this comma, that comma, and the other thing
32:33is different from this comma, that, and the other thing.
32:38That and the other thing become together when they're not.
32:42This comma, that comma, and the other thing.
32:46There are three things.
32:48A hundred percent.
32:48Leaving out the Oxford comma there changes the meaning.
32:53Yeah, a hundred percent.
32:55Yeah, I learned that.
32:56I was like, oh, my gosh, that's crazy.
33:00Yeah, no, that's, when it comes to English, math was my favorite subject.
33:05I like to joke.
33:06But, yes, I had a lot of English and creative writing classes, so I'd always insist.
33:14I took a journalism class, too, and the Oxford comma was a big thing because, again, when you're doing journalism,
33:21the facts matter.
33:23If it's this, that, the other thing is a whole different story than this comma, that, and the other thing.
33:32Yes.
33:32Details matter, and with modern printing and publishing, especially digital, all those extra commas don't hurt.
33:42They help, yes?
33:44Yes.
33:45Yes.
33:45So now I'm going to give Mickey a hard time again.
33:47We talked about the English, the Oxford comma.
33:54He'll get a kick out of that.
33:56Oh, anyway, well, the time has flown.
34:01It indeed is now over 30 minutes, so let's wrap things up.
34:07Do you have a website for people to find you?
34:12Yes, loveunedited.com.
34:17Loveunedited, one T in there, yes?
34:19Yes, dot com.
34:21Dot com, yeah.
34:22Because I don't want people to have to spell Schroeder.
34:25That's a good idea, but that raises the point.
34:29Normally, I like to make sure the name is dropped at least seven times for people.
34:33Schroeder, S-E-Schroeder, S-E-Schroeder, S-E-Schroeder.
34:36There you go.
34:37S, period, E, period, Schroeder, but there's a T on the front of that.
34:43There is.
34:43E-S-C-H-R-I-T-T-E-R.
34:47Yes.
34:48Thank you, Schroeder.
34:50Yes.
34:51So, when people go to loveunedited.com, there's a Let's Connect button, and they can connect with YouTube, Instagram, TikTok,
35:00all the things.
35:00They can find me there, and I would love to connect with your listeners.
35:03That'd be fun.
35:05Yeah.
35:06And despite my foggy slash squirly brain, we made it through.
35:11We did great.
35:12This is a great conversation.
35:15Thank you, S-E.
35:17Take care.
35:18God bless.
35:19God bless.
35:20Talk soon.
35:21Bye.
35:24I woke up and immediately regretted mornings by a humbug.
35:32Could be great if not arrived so damn early.
35:40Brain still foggy, yet feeling squirly.
35:58I woke up mad at the ceiling fan.
36:02My face said, why, before I could stand.
36:05Coffee's not enough for this haunted brain.
36:09I'm half a ghost in a school bus lane.
36:13Eyes like dust, steps like a joke.
36:16Head doing math.
36:17I can't get cold.
36:19I can't get cold.
36:20The world showed up way too soon.
36:23I'm not awake.
36:25I'm barely noon.
36:26Too early again.
36:29Too early again.
36:39Morning's got hands.
36:42And the grass.
36:44And the grass too tight.
36:46I need one more hour just to get my life.
36:53I met my socks in the dark.
36:56I met my socks in the dark by the sink.
36:57One went north, one went thick.
37:00My keys were there in a bowl of doom.
37:03I lost my words to the hallway gloom.
37:07Eyes like dust, steps like a joke.
37:10Head doing math.
37:12I can't get cold.
37:14The world showed up way too soon.
37:17I'm not awake.
37:18I'm barely noon.
37:21Too early again.
37:22Too early again.
37:24Too early again.
37:26Too early again.
37:27Bash my clock, amen.
37:29Too early again.
37:30Too early again.
37:34Morning's got hands.
37:37Heavy ground too tight.
37:40I need one more hour just to get my life.
37:48If sunrise wants a fire to pick the wrong guy, I'm wrinkled, I'm irritable, I don't know why.
37:56Give me a minute, give me a chair, give me a version of the day I can be.
38:04Too early again.
38:06Too early again.
38:08Too early again.
38:10Too early again.
38:11Too early again.
38:11Bash my clock, amen.
38:13Too early again.
38:15Too early again.
38:17Too early again.
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