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Ask This Old House - Season 24 - Episode 17: Lead Testing, Hillside Steps
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00:05On Ask This Old House, our experts travel across the country to answer questions about your house.
00:17Today, Richard talks about sink drain maintenance with tips and tricks to keep everything flowing.
00:24Then, Morrow demonstrates both some low-tech and high-tech ways to test for lead paint.
00:31And, a steep hill has a homeowner stumbling.
00:35Mark steps in to help install some hillside stairs.
00:39I don't think that could have gone any better.
00:40All that on Ask This Old House.
00:50Hey, Richard.
00:51How are you?
00:52All right. What's going on here?
00:53It's not a cooking show.
00:54You know, everybody's got plumbing clogs, and they don't happen overnight.
00:57So, I wanted to review some of the things that cause sink clogs.
01:00Okay.
01:00And then, what you can do to prevent them.
01:02Sounds good.
01:03First thing, we start at the kitchen sink.
01:04Yep.
01:05Every single sink has a trap underneath it.
01:07And so, that trap has got a water seal.
01:09Yeah.
01:10It keeps sewer gas from coming up.
01:11Right.
01:11By its very nature, it's designed where it can catch things.
01:14Oof.
01:15So, this is a dramatic example.
01:16You can see a bracelet, and you can see flossers, and even coffee stirrers can get stuck down there.
01:21So, good to hold water.
01:23Right.
01:23But also, a natural place for everything else.
01:25It's a tight bend, and so it can actually trap stuff in there.
01:28Most traps can now come apart easily.
01:30You can clean them and put it there.
01:31So, that's your first place where stuff can clog.
01:33What's going on in your household?
01:35You're like having Mardi Gras here in one trap.
01:37Okay.
01:38But the other culprit really is not the solids like that.
01:41It's grease.
01:42Yeah.
01:43Okay.
01:43So, when you're working around the kitchen sink, and you wash the dishes, and you've got
01:46a fair amount of baking grease or whatever, it's going to want to work its way down and
01:50going to try to recoagulate in the long horizontal pipes that are off and down in the basement.
01:56Okay.
01:57So, I would recommend, if you have a lot of grease, you should try to save it and not put
02:03it down the drain, and then throw it away properly, because it can change its state from a liquid
02:07to a solid.
02:08So, I thought we'd do a little demonstration right here.
02:11This is grease.
02:12In its liquid form.
02:14So, it's a little warm.
02:15Correct.
02:15And this pipe is cold.
02:17So, now let's simulate.
02:19Here goes the grease going down.
02:21Starts hot, and it's moving.
02:22Yeah.
02:23But over, say, 10, 20, 50 feet of cold pipe.
02:27Absolutely.
02:28Oh, look at that.
02:30Yeah.
02:31So, now, you see what happens?
02:34So, now, just as you'd expect, it's going to stick to the bottom side of it.
02:38Now, that's a layer.
02:39Now, you do a little bit more, and it's another layer, another layer, and sooner or later,
02:42it'll close its aperture down, and you'll end up with a stoppage when nothing comes up.
02:47This is your point about building up over time, which, holy smokes.
02:50That's an extreme example.
02:51Right.
02:52You know, if you've got a modern system with PVC, it's not going to be that dramatic,
02:57because there's not much surface tension.
03:00So, it's going to run down there more readily.
03:02But a lot of houses still have old galvanized or cash dyeing, and that's a steel pipe with a
03:08galvanized coating.
03:09And that can just be a place where it's got a fair amount of friction inside of it, and
03:12that'll just keep on layering and layering.
03:14And that's your point.
03:15Build up over time.
03:16So, a little baking grease, you know, on a Sunday morning, no big deal, but for five
03:19years, you end up with crazy...
03:21That's right.
03:21Slowly builds it up.
03:22Okay.
03:23The other thing is, not just grease, it's hair.
03:26Come on.
03:27Not with you.
03:27Not with me.
03:28No.
03:30So, hair has got some natural places to clog.
03:33One is, underneath the sink, is this pop-up assembly.
03:38We all know them.
03:39They go up and down like this.
03:40Sure.
03:40And a perfect place for hair to catch is right here.
03:45Because there's an obstruction right in the middle of the drain.
03:47It actually sticks right into the water stream, okay?
03:49Yeah.
03:49So, it's a perfect place.
03:50So, one brilliant invention is this.
03:53So, this goes down.
03:54Throw that away.
03:55Throw that away.
03:56You don't need that anymore.
03:57You put that down and here's your new stopper.
04:00Okay?
04:00So, that's how the water stops.
04:01But look what's below it.
04:03Oh.
04:04So, you've got a strainer.
04:05That's right.
04:06And is this designed to come out so that you can easily...
04:08Absolutely.
04:09And when you live with a shedder, that's a really good invention.
04:13We won't tell her.
04:14Okay?
04:14And what about the...
04:15The other thing is the shower.
04:16This is a great little invention.
04:18You know, it's not beautiful, but it does a great job to catch all the hair and you can
04:21clean that and keep that shower drain from taking all that hair.
04:24Throw this over the fixed strainer and know that you can take this out and clean it.
04:28Yeah.
04:29And that hair is unbelievable.
04:30It just stays attached to anything.
04:31It's like it gets caught on any snag, so it's difficult to clear it.
04:35Mm-hmm.
04:35So, everybody wants to go after these things with a chemical because it's simple.
04:40Let's throw it in there.
04:41And so, I just want to talk about them a little bit.
04:43This is a drain cleaner.
04:44This is sodium hydroxide.
04:46It could be a base or it could be an acid.
04:49Okay?
04:49There's different ways to do it.
04:50But in all cases, it's going to try to go aggressively at the organic matter.
04:55So, what I've got here is some hair and this into some water.
05:00And you have a thermometer in there.
05:01Why?
05:02Because I'm going to show you the chemical reaction when we put lye.
05:06So, we're at 80 some odd degrees now.
05:09So, this is 100% sodium hydroxide, also known as lye.
05:13And that's doing what?
05:14Well, that's going to break down the organic matter.
05:17You see it.
05:17It's going to raise the temperature dramatically.
05:20Holy smokes.
05:21What is it?
05:21It's already over 150.
05:22Right.
05:23So, now, that might clear the hair.
05:25But if you've got ancient old pipes or thin wall old pipes, and now you're putting in that temperature and
05:31aggressive behavior in it,
05:33you can rot the pipes away and now you've caused another problem.
05:35And then if somebody has to come along later and run a snake down there, now you've got the issue
05:41of this caustic chemical that will hurt people.
05:44So, clearly it's doing something in there.
05:46Does it also work on grease?
05:48Yeah.
05:48This is a similar example right here.
05:50This was hair and grease in here and it broke it down and it reformed the grease to make it
05:55now be able to convey down to the main drain.
05:58Got it off of the pipe.
05:59Got it off the pipe.
05:59Once it's flowed out.
06:00Okay.
06:01So, this works, but it can be damaging to the pipes and the people that come after it.
06:06So, if you prefer not to grab things like this and pour them down the drain, is there anything you're
06:11comfortable pouring down the drain?
06:12We've got some organic solutions.
06:14This is baking soda and vinegar.
06:16You can use this as an organic way to keep those drains clear of grease.
06:20And this is fantastic.
06:21What do you love about this?
06:21This is actually, it's an enzyme.
06:23There's no caustic chemicals.
06:25And those enzymes will just eat anything organic.
06:29Just keep on eating that grease and it'll actually, you could put enough down there and that pipe would just
06:33be as clean as a whistle over time.
06:35So, over time, literally just starts to eat away at something like that.
06:39Like a big buffet for that enzyme.
06:41All right.
06:41Well, thank you, Richard.
06:42It's disgusting, but still, thank you.
06:45Thanks for sharing it with me.
06:52Hey, Mauro.
06:53Calvin, how you doing?
06:54I'm doing all right.
06:54Looks like we're talking lead paint, huh?
06:56Yes.
06:57All right.
06:58So, this is something you must come across a lot given what you do.
07:01Almost every day.
07:02Every time when I approach to do a project in a house that was built before 1978, as a professional
07:08painter, I have to test for lead paint.
07:10So, back in the day, most paint had lead.
07:13They slowly phased it out.
07:14And 78 is that sort of year when kind of before, let's assume it is, after we know it was
07:19illegal.
07:20We know that lead, when ingested, inhaled or whatever, is really bad for us, terrible for young children because it
07:26affects the brain development.
07:27Exactly.
07:27For young kids, you should be really careful with that because brain damage and all the other stuff that might
07:33come with that.
07:33So, what's your preferred way to test?
07:35Well, okay.
07:36We have this fast result test.
07:39There's a liquid and a powder tube inside.
07:42I'm just going to pull this out so I can take a look at that.
07:44Yeah, pull that out.
07:45Yeah.
07:45So, liquid.
07:47Liquid.
07:47Powder.
07:48Powder.
07:48And they're actually not touching because there's almost a glass in glass in there.
07:52Exactly.
07:53You're going to have to crush part A and part B.
07:56But first, put the gloves on.
07:59You, me, rubber gloves.
08:02It's going to be a party.
08:05All right.
08:06Let's clean the blade first.
08:09So.
08:11A little alcohol wipe that cleans out the blades.
08:14Might be contaminated by something.
08:17Right there.
08:18Okay.
08:19I'm going to cut with the angle.
08:22You want me to get through the surface?
08:23You have to go through all the way down to the first coat of paint.
08:27Oh.
08:28Let me see if I can come back and get the bare wood.
08:38You okay with that?
08:39That's good.
08:40Okay.
08:41Good.
08:42So, tell me about this test.
08:43I've bought them before.
08:45I can do this?
08:46You can do that.
08:47Every homeowner that will perform some work on a house.
08:50If the house was built before 1978, this is a good test to do it.
08:54Got it.
08:55Now, you're going to press part A, part B.
08:59All right.
08:59Crush it.
09:01There it goes.
09:02Part B.
09:03Oh, yeah.
09:03Make sure.
09:04Now, you're going to shake it.
09:06And I want to put this on my cut?
09:08You want to put this on your cut, right in there.
09:10Just rub it against it.
09:12Comes out orange.
09:14Mine kind of stayed orange.
09:16That means no lead.
09:17How'd you do?
09:20I can see red and I can see pink.
09:22You're positive?
09:23I'm positive.
09:24You're negative.
09:25Okay.
09:27So, this means you're now going down a different route in terms of the protocol that you have
09:33to think about.
09:34Absolutely.
09:34For mitigation, encapsulation, and all the type of stuff.
09:37Yes.
09:37I've seen these.
09:38We've bought them before.
09:39So, good for a homeowner?
09:40Good for a homeowner.
09:41But also good enough for you?
09:42It's good enough for me, but nowadays we have something even better than that.
09:47Oh.
09:48Lay it on me.
09:49What do you got?
09:50We got this machine that calls XRF, which is accurate to detect lead paint.
09:57And when I see XR, is it safe to assume it's got an X-ray feature?
10:00Exactly.
10:01Huh.
10:01All right.
10:02And so, how does this thing?
10:03Works.
10:04It just goes against the surface.
10:06Goes right through the paint layers.
10:08We don't have to do the cut.
10:10Ooh.
10:11That was fast.
10:11Red.
10:12Positive.
10:13Positive.
10:13Holy mackerel.
10:14And man, can you do mine?
10:16I'll do yours now.
10:20Negative.
10:21Green.
10:21Negative.
10:21That fast.
10:22You don't have lead paint.
10:23I do.
10:24So, like you said, I don't have to cut my windowsill to expose it for this whole test.
10:29That thing is not going to damage anything.
10:31That thing doesn't damage anything because you don't have to cut the wood and it can read
10:36if you have lead paint through the laser paint down to the wood.
10:39May I?
10:40You could.
10:41Yes.
10:41So, if I go to yours, the numbers below all this stuff here, does this matter to you at
10:47all or do you just care about the positive?
10:49Yes.
10:49That means the amount of lead that you have in your house.
10:52Oh.
10:52So, it's measuring the concentration?
10:53Measuring the concentration that you have.
10:55Do you care about that?
10:56You should.
10:57Because?
10:58Because all the rules and regulations, but that applies to different states and towns.
11:03So, are you suggesting that you could get a positive, a number I guess higher than zero
11:10might be the base?
11:10It could be higher than zero.
11:12But it could be low enough?
11:13It could be low enough so you don't have to.
11:15To follow up with all the protocols.
11:17So, this could save you a lot of headaches.
11:19It could save you a lot of headaches.
11:20A lot of money too.
11:21This is kind of binary, positive or negative, but this is super specific.
11:24This is precise.
11:26I have not seen this before.
11:27I haven't seen you use it.
11:28Is this a pros tool?
11:30It's more for like a home inspector and sometimes general contractor has one of those.
11:34So, someone who's in the business and inspect for lead a lot.
11:37In the business and inspect for lead or any other detection that they want to find out
11:41in the house, this is handy.
11:43Awesome.
11:44All right.
11:44Well, thank you, Mauro.
11:44All right.
11:49Today, I'm headed to the state of New Hampshire.
11:52Fun fact about New Hampshire is its nickname.
11:54It's called the Granite State.
11:55And that's due to the large boulders, the rock formations, and the quarries throughout.
12:00I love working with granite for a number of reasons.
12:03It's durable.
12:04It stands up to harsh weather.
12:06And it's been used in building and landscaping for years.
12:13Pete.
12:14Mark.
12:15How you doing?
12:16Good. How are you?
12:17Great. Great to see you.
12:18Great to see you too.
12:18Thanks for coming over.
12:19Yeah.
12:19Well, thanks for writing us.
12:21I already see the patient right here, right?
12:22This hill here, yes.
12:23Yes.
12:24So, my wife and I, we built this house about a year ago.
12:27Okay.
12:27And we have this beautiful side yard, as you can see.
12:30Yeah.
12:30And we built a beautiful fire pit that we've started to enjoy.
12:33But, unfortunately, it's very difficult to get down to.
12:36Right.
12:36And that's something that we've had a lot of issues with.
12:39As I'll show you right here, there's a couple of videos of me actually falling down this hill.
12:44Yeah, wow.
12:45Yeah, very painful.
12:46Are you all right?
12:46I'm surviving right now.
12:48Okay.
12:49So, that is something I'd like to avoid going forward.
12:52Okay.
12:52So, what we're hoping to do here is find a safer way to get down.
12:55All right.
12:55Well, it's something we can fix.
12:57And I do have a couple ideas.
12:59So, let me show you.
12:59Let's do it.
13:00All right.
13:07So, here's our step.
13:08Okay.
13:09Now, there are two different ways we can do this.
13:11Yep.
13:11To my left, we already know how steep that is.
13:14Yes, we do.
13:15Right?
13:15So, if we cut into that hill right there, from the bottom to the top, we're probably going
13:19to end up with eight or nine steps, which is quite a climb, especially if you have something
13:23in your hands like burgers and hot dogs.
13:25Yes.
13:25We would have to pour a footing, then build the step.
13:28So, a lot of work.
13:29And once we got done with the steps, we'd have to add a rail.
13:31So, another expense.
13:33Okay.
13:33Second way that we could do it is right here.
13:36So, you can see this slope.
13:38This slope actually coincides with your doorway up top, so it might be just an easier flow.
13:44And this is going to be a much easier build.
13:46We can take this beautiful piece of granite right here.
13:49You see that?
13:50Yeah.
13:50I mean, this is New Hampshire's finest.
13:53We have a bunch of those, so we can kill this slope just inserting these pieces of granite
13:57into that hill and get out that way.
14:00What do you think of that?
14:00I think that sounds great.
14:01It's going to look beautiful.
14:02All right.
14:03Okay.
14:03So, first we have to dig.
14:05Then we have to do some gravel work, and then we put the tread on that.
14:08But let's get started with the shovels.
14:09Let's do it.
14:10All right, Pete.
14:12So, the first thing we're going to do with the first step is locate it.
14:16So, this stone wants to face that fire pit because we're going to twist around this little walk,
14:22and that's what we want to face because that's where we're going.
14:24So, if you hold the tape, that stone is 40 inches.
14:30All right.
14:32So, I'm just going to do a rough little spray.
14:34Okay.
14:40This represents our dig area.
14:42Okay.
14:43Again, facing that fireplace, so I like that.
14:46Time for shovels right now, Pete.
14:47All right.
14:50You can have a long handle.
14:51All right.
14:52I'll take the short.
15:09Take that.
15:10See that right there, Pete?
15:11I do.
15:12That's clay.
15:12Okay.
15:13Okay.
15:13So, we're down to clay, which is solid stuff.
15:20Take this out.
15:21We still want to go a little bit deeper.
15:24How deep are we going to dig here?
15:26So, I normally like to go at least 12 inches.
15:29Okay.
15:30Just because I want to get the gravel in for drainage.
15:43So, Pete, that looks to be about 12 inches.
15:46Do you mind getting that hand tamper?
15:47Absolutely.
15:47But you can see this clay is really flattening out very nicely.
15:52We want to make sure we're working off a base that's as solid as possible.
15:57And again, lucky enough to have clay below, which packs very nicely.
16:02So, let's dump this crushed stone.
16:06Just going to go right there and flip it up.
16:11Spread that out with your flat shovel.
16:13Got it.
16:18Excellent.
16:21What I'm going to want to do next is compact.
16:26And what are we putting this crushed stone down for, Mark?
16:28So, the crushed stone is going to be two-fold for us.
16:31Number one, and most importantly, it's going to be drainage.
16:34Okay.
16:35But number two, it's going to act as our foundation.
16:37That's why we want to compact it as much as possible.
16:39Got it.
16:48See how I threw that a little?
16:50Yeah.
16:51And just same thing, level it out.
16:53Level it out.
16:58And you should put us right where we want to be.
17:01That simple, Pete.
17:02That's simple.
17:03Now we're ready for the stone.
17:04All right.
17:04Stone's going to go in the hole, but we left this dirt here for a purpose.
17:08We're going to take this granite.
17:09We're going to go on top of the dirt.
17:11We're going to reevaluate, but we also want to give our chance to catch our breath.
17:16Okay.
17:16Get some leverage.
17:17Bend our knees, which is super important.
17:19Never hurt my back.
17:20It's because I always bend my knees.
17:22So, take the stone.
17:24Flip it forward.
17:25Get under it.
17:27Go right to the dirt.
17:30We're going to roll this down.
17:32Okay.
17:33This is the bottom.
17:34Okay.
17:34And then we're going to flip it in.
17:35You got it.
17:36All right.
17:36So, there we go.
17:39Again, take another breather.
17:40I'm going to get down.
17:41Okay.
17:42Keeping my fingers under it.
17:44And I'm going to go right in and drop her down.
17:48Beautiful.
17:48I don't think that could have gone any better, Pete.
17:50Whew.
17:50So, Pete, I'll take the two-footer.
17:54Excellent.
17:55All right, Pete.
17:55So, look at that bubble.
17:56And you can see that I'm pitching the stone frontwards.
18:00That means the water is going to drain that way.
18:02Okay.
18:02And when I go this way, I'm trying to do the same thing.
18:05You can see the bubble leaning this way, which means I'm pitching that way.
18:08And why are we pitching toward the hill this side?
18:11So, it's a call that we're making right on the spot because I'm noticing our surroundings.
18:15You can see the hill over here.
18:17That's going to want to take the water and bank it out.
18:20If I go this way, it might get caught right here, build up, become ice.
18:25So, that's the reason we chose that.
18:27Awesome.
18:27And what's left for this stone?
18:29Are we doing anything else here?
18:30So, we're going to do nothing here.
18:31We're going to do the rest of the stones.
18:33That way, we're going to leave this as is.
18:34And if we have to move it around to adjust, it'll be free and easy.
18:38At the end, we'll come and backfill all the stones at once.
18:40Sounds good.
18:41All right.
18:41Let's get going, Pete.
18:47All right, Pete.
18:48Why don't you get in?
18:49Got it.
19:06Stop.
19:12A couple of taps just to lock her down.
19:16All right.
19:17Next step.
19:36We're looking good.
19:38Now we can backfill.
19:42Great.
19:44And that's going to help lock this stone in.
20:06Second to last step, we're going to put down this fabric paper.
20:08So, if you grab one end.
20:10You got it.
20:11You kind of line me up.
20:14Just throw a little rock on top of it for now.
20:20Piece of steel.
20:23Next one is behind you, Pete.
20:24You got it.
20:25So, Mark, what are we putting these down for?
20:27Very typical when you're doing landscape.
20:31You put this down before you put the mulch down, or in our case, the gravel.
20:36But this is going to keep the weeds from coming up.
20:38Okay.
20:41So, Pete, we're just going to nail in this stake.
20:43Pretty heavy duty stake.
20:45That's just going to keep our fabric paper in place.
20:55All right.
20:56Let's get some stone.
20:57Let's get it.
20:58So, right up to the edge of the driveway.
21:01All right.
21:11Just rake this out, Mark?
21:13Yes, Pete.
21:14All right.
21:17So, I'm thinking this is going to be gravel all the way down, and it's going to match the
21:22side door, and it's going to match the front entry.
21:24So, that's perfect.
21:35All right, Pete, what do you think?
21:37I think this came out beautifully, Mark.
21:39All right.
21:39Great.
21:39I'm real happy myself, but I am going to lead you with a little bit of homework.
21:43You can see that dirt patch.
21:45Yes.
21:45Throw a little seed.
21:46No problem over there.
21:48But up here, you know, especially when you have company, hire a hill to navigate.
21:52So, if you plant a row of bushes all the way across the driveway here, and then maybe loop
21:56this corner, that's going to direct the company into this walkway.
22:01Flows nicely down into the backyard and right to the fire pit.
22:03I like that idea.
22:04All right.
22:05Great.
22:05Awesome.
22:06Well, thank you so much for coming to New Hampshire and helping out with these stairs.
22:08It looks awesome.
22:09All right.
22:09Well, thank you for having me, Pete.
22:10I had a ball, and I love New Hampshire.
22:12Absolutely.
22:12You want to go sit by the fire?
22:13Yeah.
22:13Let's go over and check it out.
22:15Let's do it.
22:15All right.
22:16If you have questions about your house, we'd love to hear from you.
22:19So, keep them coming.
22:20Until next time, I'm Mark McCullough for Ask This Old House.
22:25Ooh.
22:26Nice.
22:27It's warm.
22:28Yeah.
22:28I wish I had a marshmallow.
22:41Next time on Ask This Old House, Nathan heads to a historic neighborhood in New Orleans
22:47to help some homeowners install shutters.
22:50Then, Jen and Lee talk fertilizers, organic versus synthetic, when to use and how much.
22:58And, do you know how many smoke detectors you should have and where to put them?
23:02Keith answers these questions for a homeowner.
23:05Thank you so much.
23:06I feel so much safer.
23:07This is great.
23:08All that on Ask This Old House.
23:39Co'clock, ladies.
23:40It's a greatjes.
23:40you
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