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Ask This Old House - Season 24 - Episode 04: Washer Dryer Relocation
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00:05On Ask This Old House, our experts travel across the country to answer questions about your house.
00:17Today, we learn about the dangers of decibels and the importance of hearing protection when
00:23working with tools. We got some peaks up above 120 decibels. Then, it's a team
00:29effort when Richard, Heath, and Nathan help a couple relocate their laundry from the basement
00:34to the first floor. So, we'll be able to dock right onto that. I'm going to push to you.
00:39Okay. There we go. On Ask This Old House.
00:50Steve, nice to meet you. Hi, Kevin. Nice to meet you. Yeah, thanks for coming to our little workshop
00:53here. Not often we have a doctor in the house, but in this case, it's perfect, a doctor of audiology,
00:58because we are exposed to loud noises all of the time on the job site. What are the effects? How
01:04does it work? What's going on? Yeah, so there are many different types of hearing losses and causes
01:08of hearing loss, but like you said, what we're talking about here is what's known as sound-induced
01:12hearing loss, and more specifically, sound-induced hearing disorders. And I make that distinction
01:17because, unfortunately, with hazardous sound exposure, it's generally a package deal where you
01:22don't just get hearing loss. Not that that's trivial or something that you can shrug off,
01:28but we also get other issues such as tinnitus or tinnitus, which is a ringing or buzzing noise that
01:32generates inside our head, not from the world. I know it well. I have it too. But what's actually
01:39causing the injury is we have these specialized cells inside of our ears, and there's around 15,000 of
01:44them per ear. And that's all we get. They do not repair themselves. They do not heal. And as of
01:49right now,
01:49we don't have any pharmaceutical or medication that can help repair those cells. They're working
01:55on it, but we're not there yet. All right, so let's talk about the damage, because not all noises are
02:00the same, right? They're not all as bad or as good as other noises. Very true, and that's one of
02:04the
02:05things that makes this concept of just sound exposure difficult, because hazardous music exposure is a
02:12little bit different than hazardous construction or tool sounds. And even within power tools, there are
02:18differences between a table saw and a hammer. Right. And you measure sound by?
02:24So we use decibel, or that's the unit of measure for sound. And the range of loudnesses that we can
02:30perceive is something that's difficult to wrap your head around. So we use a decibel scale to take this
02:37very broad range and condense it into roughly a 0 to 120 decibel scale. So 0 dB SPL is generally
02:45regarded as the
02:46threshold of hearing. So the softest sound most people can hear before we damage our ears. And
02:52that scale goes up to around 120, 130 decibels, and that's known as the threshold of pain.
02:57Oh, interesting. Now NIOSH, which is the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health,
03:02and they're the ones that do all of the research around occupational noise exposure,
03:07they would say you have 15 minutes, only 15 minutes, before you have fully exhausted your system.
03:13That's a big difference. And it's that 15 point change from 85 to 100.
03:18Absolutely.
03:19Before we get into hearing protection, is there a way that you can demonstrate to us
03:23what the levels are for different tools? Because we don't just use something like this,
03:28we use all types of tools. And I'm just wondering, who are the big offenders?
03:34Sure. So the easiest way to do this is with a sound level meter. And fortunately, nowadays,
03:39everyone has, I guess, the power to have a sound level meter, because they're free apps for your
03:44phone. Oh, really? So we can use the NIOSH SLM app, which comes from the National Institute for
03:49Occupational Safety and Health. And it's a very educational app, it works well with iOS,
03:53and we can use that to get a rough sense of all the tools around us. It's, of course, not
03:57as accurate
03:58as a scientific model, but it's something we all have access to. Well, if you've got the phone with
04:03the app, we've got the tools. So if you break that out, I'll start grabbing some stuff. Let's see what
04:08we should start with. All right, so let's take a listen to a miter saw. Okay. And why are you
04:14all
04:14the way up there? I'm just trying to get it closer to my ears, since that's where we're hearing. It's
04:17a good place to measure. Okay. So let's see what we got. How'd we do? So some measurements over 100
04:30decibels. Really? Yeah. Damage. Yeah. Well, around 15 minutes is what you would have exposed to sounds
04:38like that before you hit your daily dose. Now let's try a drill. You know, I know how loud the
04:43impact
04:44drivers are, but just a regular drill driver, I'm curious to see what you get.
04:50So we're around 85, 86 decibels. So use it for an entire day, you've used up your allotment. Right.
04:58Which we're generally not going to be drilling the whole day, but that combined with everything else,
05:03it could definitely add up. So even a hammer is louder than you might think. Let's find out. Ready?
05:13Yeah, so we got some peaks up above 120 decibels. And again, that's at a point where you should really
05:19never be exposed to that sound. And it's worth noting that this is just a free app. It's a cell
05:25phone.
05:25It's not perfectly accurate, but it does go to show how loud something is seemingly trivial as a
05:31hammer is. That's the most frightening thing because I often think of hearing damage from that.
05:38I rarely am actually wearing hearing protection just to hammer away. Absolutely. So that's a
05:43disappointing number to see. Yeah. I think we've all said that like, oh, I'm just hammering a nail. I
05:46don't need to wear hearing protection. But in reality, you do because that sudden burst of energy can also be
05:52even more hazardous than a loud continuous sound. So let's talk about hearing protection. A lot of
05:57different kinds out there. You got preferences? Sure. Well, nowadays, there are many fantastic ear
06:03plugs that we can use. And it kind of comes down to what you're using them for and then what
06:07fits
06:07your ears. So over the ear or earmuff style hearing protection like this works very well because it
06:13tends to offer more consistent sound protection. Even ones like this offer an active element to the noise
06:20reduction. So you can still hear people speak and then they will drop the volume when a loud sound
06:24occurs. It's a really nice feature. Yeah. Okay. Our typical foam earplugs, they work very well. The
06:30one difficulty with them is people tend to get them in their ears improperly. And that's what you'll see
06:35where they're sticking in doing almost nothing. Just hanging out. That's right. So in terms of like
06:42technical efficacy, are these similar if they were both worn properly? Yeah. So they have a
06:49similar noise reduction rating or NRR if worn properly. And you're doing it right now where
06:54you generally have to roll them down very thin, pull your ear back and up and insert it to the
06:59point where you almost don't even see the earplugs sticking out. Right. And then let it expand a little
07:04bit. Right. Let it expand. But a lot of people don't do that or they don't do it for very
07:08long.
07:08That's right. And one other issue with earplugs like that is they're passive. So they're going to bring
07:13down all sounds equally. And then if you go to communicate with someone, ask someone for a drink
07:19at the bar or someone speaks to you, you can't hear them. So you tend to take them out. So
07:23that's
07:23where newer hearing protection like some advanced earbuds and the earmuffs that we talked about that
07:29offer an active element where you can still hear someone speak and then they reduce the volume
07:33when it occurs. So the things that we're using to listen to our podcasts and our music you're saying
07:38could be used effectively in the workshop. Actually, yes. Yeah, I've used it in the workshop.
07:43I've used it at very loud rock concerts and walked away without any ringing, buzzing or fuzziness in
07:49my ears. And I don't recognize this one. What's going on there? So this is just a case, you know,
07:54there's there's so many caveats with hearing protection. And I tend to think the best earplug is
07:57the one you were actually going to wear. And since most people don't obsess over hearing like audiologists do,
08:03it's very easy to leave them at home while you're going out. So the way to mitigate that and make
08:08sure that you always are ready to protect your ears is to just get a metal key chain carrying case,
08:13put your $20 to $40 earplugs in there, and then you'll always have them with you, whether you go
08:18to a festival and there's a band or a loud restaurant. So the best hearing protection is the hearing
08:22protection you have and the one you wear. That's right. Awesome. Well, thank you, doctor.
08:26We appreciate the info. Thanks for having me on the show. You got it.
08:34Hello there. Hello there. Nice to see you. Hi, I'm Jim. And this is my wife, Michelle. How do you
08:39do? Richard.
08:40Nice to see you. Hi, Richard. Thank you for coming. Glad to be here. You wrote us about aging in
08:44place,
08:44something that I'm starting to get used to. We are. Yeah. So we know that we're not getting any younger.
08:51I'm 70 years old and we want to eliminate the stairs in our life. So we kind of live on
08:57this first floor.
08:58So you've got the bedroom master. Yeah. Yeah. Primary bedroom already down here. Okay. For you guys.
09:02Yeah. They say that if you're going to thinking about aging in place, that you do it when you
09:07can, not when you have to. And we don't have to right now. And God willing, we won't have to
09:14for
09:14a long time. Right. Right. Right. We started renovating the bathroom with that in mind,
09:18put in safety bars and things. Great. And then we thought about the laundry. Oh,
09:23because that was the laundry's downstairs now. Down in the cellar. Okay. And we'd like to eliminate
09:26that if that's possible. You want to get rid of those stairs? Yeah. Yes.
09:30All right. So you're doing some of this work yourself? We did. A little bit. We're in mid,
09:34mid process. We got stuck. Yeah. Because we wanted to convert the bathroom closet perhaps
09:40into a laundry room. Okay. And that's beyond our level. Okay. Well, I think I came just in time then.
09:47Yes, you did. Thank you. Let's check it out. All right. Okay, Richard, this is the bathroom. As you can
09:52see,
09:52we started our renovation. You did. We had a tub here. And we knew that at some point we weren't
09:58going to be able to climb up and get in and out of it. So we took the tub out.
10:03So a nice low curb
10:04right here. And that waterproofing material we use all the time. Perfect. And we had a sink that had a
10:09cabinet. Yeah. And so if we were ever in a wheelchair. Yeah. Look at that. So perfect.
10:13We'd be able to get underneath it. That's hung off the wall. Great. Yeah. And a ADA compliant toilet.
10:18Right. Does that have the bidet seat too? Yep. It does. And this was where the closet was.
10:23All right. And that's where our question was, can we put a washer and dryer in this closet?
10:28Well, you can probably physically find a way to stack it in here. You've got a drain line right
10:32here. That looks like you could tap into that for a trap. And there's hot and cold piping. You could
10:37tap into that. And then it looks like there's actually a space we can get the dryer vent to outside
10:42right there, right above the roof of the shower. That's great. So you're not too bad in my
10:48world, you know, but you're going to need electrical for the dryer and then your
10:53carpet. You've got plenty of carpeting. You know, I have in my phone the rest of our team,
10:59you know, like Heath the electrician and Nathan the carpenter. How about we call them and make
11:04this a whole team effort? That'd be wonderful. All right. I'd love it. Thank you. All right.
11:07Let's get him on the phone. Let me see if they take my call. They have caller ID.
11:17All right. Every day is Christmas. Look who I found.
11:20The troops are here. How are you doing? Nice to meet you guys. Nice to meet you.
11:24Nice to meet you. So glad you could come. Thanks for having us. So as I mentioned,
11:27we've got the bathrooms underway. We're trying to fight the washer and dryer in. The plumbing's
11:31pretty straightforward, but we need you guys. Yeah. So for me, the first thing I want to take a look
11:34at is the panel, see if we have physical space and what it's going to take to get the new
11:37circuits up
11:38there. I can show you that. All right. I'd like to look at the space given and see what we
11:41can do.
11:42I can hook you up. Okay. Lead on. All right. All right, Nathan. Welcome to the bathroom renovation.
11:48You guys are well on your way here. Yeah, we are. This looks great. Yeah. So we're talking about a
11:52washer-dryer unit, right? Yep. And it looks like this is the space that you want to put it. This
11:56is
11:56where we were hoping for. Yeah. All right. So I'm sure you guys have already done it, but I'm going
11:59to get
11:59caught up and take some measurements here. We want to make sure that we have the proper clearance for the
12:04washer-dryer unit.
12:05It looks like we have plenty of space, but I'm thinking about the doors. There's a lot of doors
12:09going on here. I see your hinges mortised here. This door is going to open in front of the closet,
12:14right? Yeah. You could swap the hinges over here and change the swing of the door and open it into
12:19the left, but then you still have a door here to navigate. And then once you open that, you have
12:23the doors of the washer and the dryer to navigate, right? Yeah, right. So it's really tight with a basket.
12:28What's nice though, is we can see the backside of this wall, all that real estate that leads out to
12:33the
12:33wall. Hallway. Hallway, perfect. Oh, yes. Look at this. Oh, look at that.
12:39Probably fit, probably a two, four,
12:45six, six that would match the existing. Get some new maple trim, blend everything. It would almost
12:50be like a paneled wall, really clean look. I see we do have a thermostat here to dance around,
12:54so Heath could probably move that for us. Excellent. All right. All right, Jim. So this
12:59is the service coming in. It looks like you got a new panel? Yes, we did. Okay. So new panel
13:05and
13:07200 amp service? Yes. Okay. It looks like this was probably existing beforehand, seeing how you have
13:12space here. That was putting with the air conditioning. Got it. So that was there. So now we have plenty
13:16of
13:17room here to grow if we need to. Looks like we have our existing dryer circuit and our washers in
13:21here
13:21somewhere as well. Am I able to reuse those circuits for the new stuff upstairs? Are you thinking of
13:26keeping your washer dryer in the basement? No, we're going to keep what we have down here. You're
13:29going to keep the machines downstairs? Yes. We're going to use it for large bulk items and things that
13:34we don't want to drag through the house. That's actually not a bad idea. I see that more and more
13:36where that's an option. You can actually use this, especially down in the basement, come through the
13:40bulkhead, dirtier items. If you had pets, anything heavy that you want to put down there, not dragged through
13:44the clean house upstairs. That works out pretty well, especially for you. You have plenty of room to grow.
13:49So what we're going to do is duplicate the circuits you already have. We're going to put in a 20
13:53amp,
13:53120 volt circuit upstairs for the washing machine. And this double 30, we're going to put in for the
13:58dryer as well. Those two will plug in for the new machines upstairs. That's great. So we can go ahead
14:01and do that. Let's go find Michelle and Nathan and we'll see what we have to do upstairs. Okay.
14:07All right, a little huddle up. What do we know? I think we found a good place for the washer
14:12dry
14:12unit. We're going to come in through the hallway, put a door in. That's pretty cool. Yeah,
14:16right off the hallway. A lot of people just sort of jamming off behind that door. I think we can
14:19make it work off the hall. So it's going to be nice. Yeah, I like that idea. I like that
14:23idea a
14:23lot. The only thing we need to do is move the thermostat. I think we can handle that. I'll just
14:28cut the wire. You wouldn't be the first. That's right. We have a wide open basement right below it,
14:33so it should be easy enough to pull down, relocate somewhere else in the hall,
14:36pull it up in a nice location, be done with it. And we have a new service, a new electrical
14:41panel,
14:41a new 200 amp service, plenty of physical space for new breakers. So we can pull the lines over
14:46and come right up. And you can still keep the washer and dryer. Exactly. So we can leave the
14:51existing washer dryer, add the new one. You can put laundry on the side. All right. Well, if we're going
14:56to jam that washer in, I worry about those hoses over time. They're in a place you can't get at
15:01it. So
15:01we've got to think about how to just have some access to be able to turn that water off. So
15:05either
15:06valves down in the basement we can get at or an access panel so we can get in there. And
15:10I think
15:10then we could be fine. I think it'll work. All right. So we're ready? Ready. Put it in here, gang.
15:15You got the team. Let's go. Let's go. Great. Before I remove the thermostat, I want to go ahead and
15:20kill power to the boiler and its controls. All right. Now that the boiler is off, I'm going to take
15:26the thermostat off. Next, I'll just take the wires out. And I'll get the back plate out of the way,
15:36and then I'll jump downstairs and pull the wires down. I'm going to get started inside the closet
15:41by removing this rock lab. Now we're going to get started in the hallway. I'm going to start by
15:54removing the trim, the baseboard, and then I'm going to get going on the rock lab.
16:32All right. Now that we have the location of the washer dryer going on the first floor,
16:35I can start to plan a path to running my wires. And as you can see, we have a lot
16:39going on in the
16:39ceiling. We have a bunch of pipes going in every direction, existing wiring, line voltage,
16:44low voltage, light fixtures, a little bit of everything. So it took a little while to find a
16:47path, but I think we have it. And I'm pulling two different cables. The first one I'm going to pull
16:51is a 12.2 NM cable. This is going to be the 20 amp, 120 volt circuit for the washing
16:56machine that's
16:56going to go upstairs. The second one I want to pull is going to be a 10.3 NM cable.
17:01This is going
17:02to be a 240 volt, 30 amp circuit for the dryer up here as well. Now I'm going to turn
17:08the main breaker
17:09to the house off and lock this out so no one can turn it on while I'm working on the
17:13panel.
17:27Now that the wires are in the panel, stripped, the grounds are made up and the breakers are in place,
17:31we'll just make the connections to the breaker. We're going to start framing our rough opening.
17:37This original partition wall here was framed with two by three stock. So we're going to go back with
17:41two by three stock. We're going to go with a flush threshold so the washer and dryer can roll in
17:51nice
17:52and easy. Now I'm going to set the jamb for the door. I'm going to use some cedar shims to
17:58plummet
17:59and then I'm going to hang the door after.
18:18All right, we have a few things to fit into this wet wall. We've got, first of all, this washing
18:24machine
18:25valve box right here. That's going to mount into the wall and you can see it's got a single acting
18:29shutoff valve right here. I love that so you can take the pressure off the hoses and it's got a
18:34place
18:34for the drain. So that's going to be right about there and now we've got the drain. We're going to
18:38come
18:39off here with two inch and we're going to come over with a trap and that it has to be
18:44two inch nowadays
18:45for any standpipe and then the hot and the cold will be right here. We're going to come over
18:50we're going to come over and feed our washing machine valve. We're also going to tee off
18:55because in the future we have to put that shower valve in that the installers will do over here
18:59so we'll leave this capped off. We also have the dryer vet that has to fit into this very same
19:04wall
19:04so you have to be sensitive to that and then he's going to put his electrical somewhere here and it
19:08all has to fit. Starts by turning off the water.
19:50I got it, Nathan. Good?
20:14So this is this interesting part here. It's a telescoping vent and we got the issue of the shower
20:20valve right here so this fits narrow and now we get it to right here and I know that the
20:25dryer vent
20:26tapping on the back of the dryer is at 40 inches. Perfect. So look at that so we'll be able
20:31to dock
20:31right onto that. I'm going to push to you. Okay. There we go. Keep swinging, keep swinging. You got door
20:38hinges over here.
20:53Keep coming. Keep coming. Hold, hold. I tell you, Jim, look at the match that Nathan did. That's
21:01what really makes it just disappear in this hallway, doesn't it? Yeah, did beautiful, beautiful work.
21:06Yep. I love the unit. You picked this baby out, right? Because I've had stackables before,
21:12you know, the bottom and the top unit but it turns out that the controls are like way up there
21:15and
21:16way down here. This is nice in the middle. It's very convenient because you know, Richard,
21:19as we get older, we're not going to get any taller and we wouldn't want to be reaching way up
21:22there
21:23for the controls. Am I going to shrink? Yes. Oh no. We all are. I felt so tall. All right.
21:29I heard
21:29you're the laundry guy. I am. Well, this thing, I've been sweating for a couple of days with this,
21:33so I'm going to leave it with you. Okay? All right. Let's go find the boys. Okay.
21:39But it all worked out. It did. Oh, Michelle, you married a pro at laundry. He's already got a white
21:44load going. He's unreal. He's good. He's really good. He is. He is. Well, we hope you guys enjoy
21:50this thing. It's been really fun. Thank you. We did. And we really appreciate all,
21:55every piece of everything you guys did. It's a great project. Thank you. The boys did it. Hold on,
21:59a little bit of homework. Okay. Let's not rush this. So you guys are going to finish the bathroom.
22:03A little access panel on the side there, so you can do the shutoffs. Please also label any of the
22:06shutoffs, so if you have guests, they know. Staining, a little bit of staining to finish
22:10everything up. Just a new doorknob that matches the existing. All right. Got it. And thank you guys
22:15so much for being great fans and writing in for this project. That was wonderful. Happy to come and do
22:20it,
22:20and I'm glad it worked out so well for everyone. And if you're a fan of the show and you
22:24want to take a look at your
22:24house, write in to us and let us know. For Ask This Old House, I'm Heath Eastman. I'm Nathan Gilbert.
22:30And I'm Rich Truthui for Ask This Old House. All right. Who's driving? I thought you were.
22:34All right. I'll drive. Come on. I'm going to sleep in the back seat.
22:41Next time on Ask This Old House, Lee helps a homeowner create some privacy using arborvities.
22:47What do you think? It's beautiful. I love it. Then, Mark is talking fireplace tools and the
22:55function of each one. And this simple rack will help you organize your storage bins.
23:00And Tommy will show you how to build it. Just check it real quick, see if it's square.
23:06All that on Ask This Old House.
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