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7 7 Homegrown Terror - Season 1 - Episode 02
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00:00The following program contains strong language and scenes which some viewers may find distressing.
00:30Shall I press play?
00:32Yeah, press play.
00:35Alhamdulillah, salatu wasalamu ala rasulullah.
00:39I'm going to keep this show up to the point.
00:42I and thousands like me have forsaken everything for what we believe.
00:48Our driving motivation...
00:49I knew Mohammed Sadiq Khan.
00:52He was a good friend of mine.
00:57I'm sure by now the media's painted a suitable picture of me.
01:02This predictable propaganda machine.
01:05They said that I knew was a good man.
01:09The guy in the video, I don't know who that was.
01:13Something was white from him.
01:18Your democratically elected governments continuously perpetuate atrocities against my people all over the world.
01:27Even the way he was speaking, I didn't recognise the way he was speaking in those mind-numbing, closed-down
01:35cliches.
01:36It's like a bad movie.
01:38Kind of al-Qaeda speak.
01:41We will fight the infidel. He never spoke like that.
01:45Our religion is Islam. Obedience to the one true God, Allah.
01:50I'm unable to work out how we got from there to there.
01:53We are at war and I'm a soldier.
01:56And that's the thing I still sometimes struggle to work out.
02:00Now you too will taste the reality of this situation.
02:13There have been a series of terrorist attacks in London.
02:18But this is the biggest crime scene in English history.
02:24So far all the evidence, the coordinated explosions, points to al-Qaeda.
02:32How did four young British men end up becoming suicide bombers in their own country?
02:37What makes a person do such a thing?
02:52You can't unsee what you see.
02:54It stays with you forever.
02:57But you must always talk about it.
03:00It's the only way that people remember the atrocity that happened.
03:19I was assigned the job of removing the bodies from Rust Square.
03:26The first time we walked down to make our way to the scene,
03:29there was a foot at the end of the platform.
03:32Just a foot on its own.
03:34It was a sign of things to come.
03:39The carnage in that one carriage is really unfathomable.
03:54Each body is a different experience.
03:58And you've got to remove them, and you've got to remove them in a sensitive way.
04:02They belong to someone.
04:04You know, they're someone's loved one.
04:07There was a poor woman.
04:10If I go, if I do that, that's like she was across the seats.
04:17I can't forget the pleading on her face.
04:20Because she had no legs.
04:21You see, her leg's been blown off.
04:23So there was no one to help her.
04:25If she was going to die there, it was impossible to save her.
04:33Having information from the other scenes,
04:34they were aware it was a suicide bomber.
04:37So each individual body was treated as a suspect.
04:41It was a priority to identify the bomber
04:45and remove that body as quick as possible
04:48so that it could be forensically worked on.
04:54We didn't know who the bomber was.
04:57He had a good idea.
04:59His body was mostly brains on the top of the carriage,
05:03which I scraped off.
05:17Floral tributes grow as the wait for news continues.
05:21The authorities say they're working as fast as they can in the conditions
05:25to deliver the answers so many people seek.
05:29I need to know what happened to my Anthony.
05:32He's the love of my life.
05:34My first son.
05:36My first son, 26.
05:40But I need to know where he is.
05:41I need to know what happened to him.
05:44So far, all the evidence, the coordinated explosions,
05:47and the ruthlessness in picking soft civilian targets,
05:51all points to Al-Qaeda.
05:56This is Scotland Yard's command centre,
05:58coordinating every incident, every response.
06:01But there are thousands more working behind the scenes
06:04on the investigation, both here and at MI5.
06:07And there is a real sense of urgency.
06:12We had four bodies at the sites of the explosions.
06:16Their bodies were so significantly disrupted
06:21that they could only have been the four bombers.
06:25But to be able to positively identify them,
06:28you need forensic evidence.
06:30What we had were identity documents of a Mahmoud Sadiq Khan
06:35found at two different bomb scenes.
06:38Mahmoud Sadiq Khan was a classroom assistant from West York, sir.
06:44For the investigation, it was the first major line of inquiry.
07:09We express our revulsion at this murderous carnage.
07:14We will pursue those responsible, wherever they are.
07:24Even though I was in no way involved in anything that happened,
07:27I would be frightened to show my face.
07:30I'm a Pakistani man.
07:33I feel like I was born with a target on my back
07:35and I don't want to put one on my front.
07:40Tell me about Mahmoud Sadiq Khan.
07:42I called him Sid.
07:44We were good friends.
07:47Maybe it's quite difficult for people to hear, but he was a sweet guy.
07:52And this might sound really strange, but the person that I knew
07:55would actually take the piss out of a lot of the dogmatic teachings of Islam
07:59or talk about some of the Imams and how simplistic they spoke.
08:04He would take the miqa out of it.
08:07Sid was a youth worker.
08:10The young people looked up to him.
08:12He was a very earnest guy.
08:14He had a very clear idea of what was right and wrong.
08:17He was very much affected by things that he thought were wrong.
08:19Come on, lady, we'll bang it all day.
08:24Right, I'll catch you two messing about with my brew again
08:26and we'll come knock your house into the fence.
08:28And if he thought something was wrong, he would take matters into his own hands.
08:32He would do something about it.
08:33He really cared, you know.
08:35He used to get the kids off heroin.
08:37He would actually snatch them, chain them up in a room
08:39and make them go cold turkey.
08:43People tell me who had that, that it was one of the best things that happened to them
08:46in all their life.
08:47They're incredibly grateful.
08:49Nothing else could get them off heroin.
08:51He was fearless, authentic, from Beeston, like me.
08:58Beeston was shit.
08:59It was recognised to be shit.
09:01It was like a dumping ground.
09:04Huge amounts of racism, poverty, deprivation, big history of drug problems.
09:11It was just a place where people had very little life chances.
09:15Let's be clear.
09:16I mean, we had fuck all in the area.
09:18What are we going to do?
09:20Work in the takeaway?
09:21Be a taxi driver?
09:23Very hard for people who have not had that experience to understand it.
09:32Friends and families of the missing gathered outside the stations
09:35where their loved ones were last seen alive,
09:38looking for any slender hope that they may somehow have survived.
09:44We watched the news constantly for any clues to where David might have been.
09:57We just started phoning hospitals and got nowhere because they obviously weren't going to tell us anything.
10:03It was confidential.
10:04But you don't know that at the time.
10:05You're in a state of panic.
10:06You're in a state of fear.
10:07And the more they say no, the more fearful you become.
10:11I actually went out and bought all the newspapers.
10:14We had them spread out all over the floor, desperately combing them to find out any information at all.
10:20And there was a knock at our front door late morning.
10:24And there was a young police officer in plain clothes.
10:27And she held up a warrant card and asked if she could come in.
10:31That was a real heart-sink moment.
10:35Anyway, she came in and she explained she was from Greater Manchester Police.
10:39And she'd simply been ordered to come and take mouth swabs.
10:43And, of course, we asked lots of questions.
10:45You know, what is he? What's happening? And so on and so on.
10:47And I think she was quite embarrassed, really, because I genuinely do not know.
10:51I've just been told to come and take mouth swabs.
10:54So she took the mouth swabs and then she took the tubes and there was a motorcycle courier outside.
11:00She gave them to him and he vanished.
11:04We were just so anxious and so worried, so full of dread, thinking about David.
11:10Where is he? We hope he's okay.
11:20My son was missing since Wednesday.
11:24Hasib had told me he was going to London, sightseeing with his friends.
11:30I was in a very bad state.
11:45I do not remember how many times I called him, but there was no answer.
11:55The liaison officer came to see us.
11:58It felt like she had made certain assumptions.
12:01I did not like it at all.
12:10I visited the family of a Hasib Hussain.
12:14I remember Mr Hussain's oldest son.
12:17I felt he had something to say, but couldn't say it in front of his father.
12:23So, just before I left the house, I surreptitiously passed my telephone number on a piece of paper to him.
12:33I just felt something.
12:38I could not sit still.
12:40I could not sit still.
12:41All I could think about was my son and where he could be.
12:44It was like a horrible nightmare.
12:48I was fearful.
12:50I asked some people about Hasib.
12:53But no one could tell me anything.
12:58I then went into the Iqra bookshop.
13:01I asked the man at the counter if he knew Hasib.
13:05He told me he didn't.
13:07But I knew he was lying.
13:11Finally, he said,
13:14Hasib may be with Sid.
13:16I asked who Sid was and where I could find him.
13:19He then said he may be with Shazad Tanvir.
13:23They were also missing.
13:28I suspected something was very wrong.
13:38Later that evening, I got a phone call from Hasib's older brother,
13:44the one I'd passed the phone number to.
13:47He told me that he had searched his brother's bedroom after I left
13:52and found a mobile phone.
13:56There was only one number on it.
13:58So he rang it and a gentleman answered.
14:04He said that he had rented a property to his brother at Alexander Grove.
14:12Hasib's brother went round to the address, looked in the window.
14:18He said to me, I think something awful has been going on in there.
14:23You better get round there.
14:25As I 디자 zien, he said in ...
14:37Neil Также is the one who Had Tohers is originally in at Warrior's town of Athens.
14:42In Russia.
14:44The carnage in Madrid.
14:45Three trains have blown up in a devastating attack on the Spanish capital.
14:50191 people were killed and more than 1500 injured the multiple synchronized nature of the attacks
14:57is al-qaeda's signature we had all lived through the consequences of the police raids in madrid
15:05where terrorists who were still within the premises blew the place up when the police entered
15:13killing a police officer
15:21so there was a marked sense of potential danger in the search of alexandra grove
15:39one of the big things that you're considering when you know it's a high threat task
15:45are they targeting me
15:50but once you're ready to go down the road it's it's just you
15:54you're on your own you're down there facing off with whatever it is you're dealing with
16:00armed officers surround a house preparing for a raid
16:04general rule of thumb everybody's expecting you to go through the door so make your own entry point
16:13popped the window to gain access into the building and climbed through and started looking around
16:19just couldn't believe what i'd walked into lots of tools wires batteries respirators mobile phone
16:29boxes a hot place in both bedrooms empty ice bag wrappers it was immediately obvious it was a bomb factory
16:40every surface was covered in this white powder
16:44where they'd clearly been boiling off chemicals and trying to make homemade explosives
16:49when you stood in the bathroom the bath was about a third filled with water with these tubs
16:55floating around with like an orange material in it's actually bubbling you could see it bubbling and
17:01as if it was boiling i did 23 years in the military took me to afghanistan northern ireland and iraq
17:08never seen that before it was awful it was in a real real mess
17:16i could tell that the bombers definitely weren't a professional terrorist organization it was it was
17:23amateur hour for the police so the place was a jackpot but extremely extremely dangerous i was like right we
17:32really need to get out of here right now and rethink what we're doing
17:39as soon as the police found the bomb factory the world sort of exploded and the next day there
17:46was like wall-to-wall counter-terrorism officers all over beasting all this after passing your number to
17:55hasib's brother lucky isn't it it wasn't luck women's intuition i get a lot of that
18:07of alexandra grove contained a vast surround of forensic evidence including dna and that's in
18:16addition to identity documents was found in the sites of the explosions
18:22quickly thereafter the cctv from king's cross gives us the images of the four bombers carrying rucksacks
18:35mohammed said he can a father of one it's believed he was responsible for the bomb at edgware road
18:41shazid tanweer a 22 year old sports science student thought the cricket fan blew himself up on the
18:48all-gate train jermaine lindsay a british resident born in jamaica was responsible for the russell square
18:55attack hasib hussein hasib hussein he is suspected of being the bomber on the bus in tavistock square
19:08i had to tell the family that their son who was the day before the missing person potentially a
19:17victim was now a suspect in this atrocity and we're telling them we're going to examine your home from top
19:26to bottom no choice you're out we're coming in and you are potentially suspects as well
19:35my role altered drastically
19:39i am now working with a murderers family
19:45i was a bit nervous but it's got to be done i just had to get on with it
19:55they said hasib had something to do with the blasts
20:01i was holding my wife's hand
20:04as she heard the news her hand slipped away
20:12the liaison officer told us our house was surrounded by armed officers and had a warrant to search the house
20:23my whole body was shaking i was shocked and in disbelief
20:33this cctv picture is the first to show the four bombers together
20:38on the left is teenager hasib hussein the youngest of the bombers
20:42a short time later and hasib hussein is captured again
20:45a clearer image showing his rucksack carrying the explosives
20:50the television started showing pictures of hasib
20:55i kept telling myself hasib could not be involved
21:03my mind was full of suspicion
21:06i couldn't accept that he would go to london and bomb a bus
21:15they didn't take it well mr hussein collapsed on the sofa
21:20he would just say no no no it's not my son you you've doctored the cctv it's not it's not
21:26a see
21:26you know he just wouldn't have it
21:31and eventually i just stopped trying to convince him i couldn't i couldn't tell him
21:41i can understand the reason for their denial it's a absolute mammoth
21:49thing to get your head round that your son who was perfection in their eyes could have done this
21:58it must have been an awful thing for them to come to terms with
22:05there's still a sense of huge shock here in west yorkshire that the bombers were living amongst people
22:11here they were part of their communities many people with their friends and they knew their families
22:17hasib mir hussein just 18 years old from the multiracial holbeck area of leeds
22:24he was a good pillar to the community i can't say no else because he was
22:28shazad tanweer a 22 year old sports science student he was a very kind and caring person
22:35he was respected by everybody
22:38muhammad sadiq card his house is shrouded in plastic as forensic experts search for clues
22:46it can't be mr cam it can't be they must have got it wrong somebody's got it wrong somewhere
22:51but i just feel that something's gone totally wrong for that guy to have been involved because he was
22:58a really nice guy
23:06as soon as we got the names of the four bombers they're certainly digging into everything you can
23:12discover about their lives the spotlight is on everybody who surrounds somebody who becomes a terrorist
23:23who gave them any material assistance who may have known they were going to do it and did nothing
23:29about trying to prevent them tonight western intelligence agencies are working hard to establish
23:34if there are direct links between the bombers and those around osama bin laden evidence especially
23:41the connections of the bombers to pakistan is raising that possibility
23:46when i heard about what happened i couldn't make sense of what was going on and then it kind of
23:53kind of sunk in
23:57the last time i saw sid he'd been to pakistan
24:02and he came back and he said oh you know i want to catch up with you so i said
24:07look i'm really busy
24:08and he said no no he was really insistent really really insistent
24:14so i met him and he seemed very different really peaceful
24:22now obviously looking back i realized that
24:29i realized that he had planned what he was going to do
24:33in his own mind he was going to die and he was saying goodbye to me
24:38but i didn't know that at the time obviously nobody had a clue nobody had a clue
24:45you know there were only a few times in my life that i completely broke down sobbing
24:49i mean just sobbing i mean for what he did the damage he caused
24:59what the did you think you were going to achieve
25:11in the quiet suburbs of leeds police continue to mount a large-scale security operation
25:16around the homes of three of the four alleged suicide bombers
25:21this follows the breakthrough yesterday when anti-terrorist police carried out raids on the houses
25:31the bombers they've been working there for a while producing the homemade explosives
25:37it's it's shockingly easy
25:40yeah you can walk around any popular diy outlet and you can buy the components
25:46i know there was in excess of a hundred explosive related items removed
25:53four of them haven't done that it there was no way four of them had done that on their own
25:57they recovered from like five six seven respirators so from when they were working in there
26:04hints at more people
26:08in the bedroom on the sideboard was a a day sack a backpack with what looked like a five to
26:16ten liter
26:16tub inside that was filled with this orange explosive material ready to be picked up and taken away
26:23was that a fifth device i believe it was it was just waiting it was just sat there did somebody
26:32bottle out
26:36what the police will be doing now is trying to reconstruct as much of the bomber's life
26:41lives over the last year or two as they possibly can working backwards trying to understand who they
26:47were who they met with what their lifestyles were in great detail
26:54in beeston there's no trust of the police whatsoever
27:00there was this big thing about all the muslims and terrorists just going to raid everybody like
27:08you're guilty by association you know you're in danger i remember being quite terrified
27:15attention has been focused on this bookstore we know that three of the men were customers here
27:22the ikra bookshop it was a place where there were islamic books videos and there's a place in
27:29back with a kitchen where people would hang out i can remember seeing sid there joking around
27:36there was one time where a guy called me in look at this video it was a guy being i
27:42think beheaded
27:43what the fuck do you want to show me that for it was sickening shocking i never went back there
27:49again
27:52beast in this afternoon almost an area under siege the focus of course for these police
27:57investigations which have seen dramatic and and fast-moving developments and now people are left
28:03wondering how men that they knew could be capable of such horrific attacks just don't need to trust in
28:11a possible muslim aging community anymore now i've got three young children at home age 12 13 and 10
28:17i think you know they're going to be in school one day and the school's going to go you know
28:21because
28:21there's asian boys in the school are they going to be took away by the families my brainwashed and
28:26brought back and go on the school for anything it is very very scary um living in the community that
28:33everyone thinks is everyone is together but really it's not it's it's just not a nice place to live at
28:38the
28:38moment why do you think that muhammad sadiq khan was radicalized you know people ask how could this
28:46happen but if you look closely enough you can probably find some reasons probably why that would
28:52happen some people might have drifted towards radicalization because primarily they felt they
28:59didn't belong our parents had a sense of who they were around pakistan but so our sense of who we
29:06were
29:07performed from you know the toxic environment that we lived in they never asked us if we wanted it
29:16we didn't want them we've always hated them hated the mortal sights on them we grew up with a far
29:25right
29:26the national front targeted bradford burnley oldham and don't forget our parents first came across
29:32we're putting up with it but the second generation we'd had enough of it
29:42from the city center the writing spread and continued into the early hours
29:46after the national front threatened to march through the city
29:50i mean the bradford riots happened because there's lots and lots of just frustration
29:57the national front you know they're going to come march through the town and do all these things to
30:02us i think people just had enough by then just the constant racism it sinks into you
30:11the language that we'd use against you all the time like you dirty fucking packy
30:15the word dirty and packet to me was synonymous i really grew up believing that there was something
30:21wrong with me i was less than human i was subhuman extremists see that pain you've had pain you've
30:32suffered pain you've suffered shame humiliation they know that and then they'll basically say oh the
30:38pain is so intolerable that if you go and do something like a big act basically you'll have
30:44great meaning and you'll be free of the pain that's what these fuckers do there is nothing that could
30:58excuse what happened but you need to understand why it happened so that it doesn't happen again
31:19the nature of intelligence work is that you're trying to get ahead of those who wish to do us harm
31:29that is what mi5 is trained to try and do
31:36we became aware of al-qaeda and the islamist threat early on in the 90s
31:43after 9 11 and our involvement in iraq we did warn the government that would be likely to increase
31:51a terrorist threat the government knew that that was a possibility indeed a probability
32:00pull your troops out of iraq and if you do not pull your troops out you will get bloodshake on
32:07the streets of
32:08mi5 had been worried about the radicalization of a small proportion of british muslims some of them
32:16third generation british who turned to this ideology that the west was engaged in hostility towards the
32:26muslim world the narrative was that islam was under attack from the west that western democracies were
32:35complicit in attacks on muslims and the people who'd voted them in the electorate of those western
32:43democracies therefore deserved to be punished
32:48as the investigation continues claims are emerging of security failures in the run-up to the bombings
32:54it's an allegation british police deny
33:03regarding the four people who went and did the 77 bombing i have more than an insight because i am
33:09one of
33:09the pioneers of violent jihad in the uk we would use islam islamic teachings to show that it is a
33:18virtue
33:19to fight for the oppressed and to bring justice to those who have been exploited or harmed
33:27recruitment takes place by talking about victimhood talking about domination from non-muslims
33:33if you have suffered racism they would come into play as well we normalized the idea of fighting back
33:41and terrorism i've seen a lot of people normal people become jihadists we would like to be able
33:50to predict who are more likely to turn in my understanding that's impossible it can't be done
33:56someone who seems to be perfectly lovable can turn and they can be easily misled or
34:02side-stepped into uh other people's ambitions
34:11the uk gave refuge to a lot of islamist people abu hamza gained a lot of traction
34:38oh and sheikh abdul al-faisal was an an utter extremist
34:45when there's a jihad you need to know who to kill so it's important to know who's a muslim and
34:48who's
34:49a god together we all belong to the same so-called jihad enterprise we traveled up and down the country
34:57preaching people gravitated around me and at times i would have gatherings of thousands of people
35:04islam is very easily hijacked or used by ignorant imams or someone like me who was half-baked in
35:12understanding islam and religious material to say well i want to go to paradise dying fighting for the
35:19sake of god and once you're in paradise you are happy forever and everything is forgiven
35:29britain's muslim community has once again become the focus of the world's media but for the vast
35:35majority of british muslims there's nothing but contempt for the terrorists we are very dismayed very
35:41shocked confused and i think also embarrassed as well uh that uh young people from our neighborhoods
35:49and our community committed this level of atrocities many here feel that their community will be blamed
35:56for the bomb attacks just feel the eyes burning through your skin it's like you know is he is he
36:02one
36:02of those people that would do that kind of stuff islamophobia is is is a common thing now it's open
36:10to be islamophobic we are fearful of backlash after 77 i was asked to attend a meeting in beeston
36:25what i was told is that law enforcement went in heavy-handed labeled the whole community as being
36:32complicit and found them guilty once they'd done that they lost the trust of that community and of
36:39course they started to arrest people and so i was being told you need to come up there and you
36:45need to tell people what their rights are when i got there it was a packed out meeting everyone was
36:52terrified you could see from people's eyes that they didn't know what was going on and they were
36:56desperate for information and advice one of my first clients was accused of being involved in it on the
37:04base that he was simply going into a house where muhammad sadi khan lived and he had nothing to do
37:12with
37:12seven seven but the the police were under huge pressure they were desperate for information
37:21they just needed to get something to satisfy the public and yes i suspect more people knew about it
37:27than perhaps is is even known today but the assumption was these asians they ate together they prayed
37:36together therefore they must know what each other was thinking and doing and that of course is
37:42stereotypical those prejudicial that is institutional racism in action
38:00so
38:12so
38:14so
38:14so
38:37In the immediacy of that week, we had no thoughts about the bombers
38:41and the fact that it was a terrorist attack.
38:44I know that in the newspapers, I'd published the names of the four bombers,
38:48but we were so focused on David that that just passed us by.
38:52We weren't interested, we were just solely focused on news about David.
38:59I have moments of real clarity,
39:05but there are whole days over which we have no memories.
39:08I mean, Tuesday, Wednesday of the week after the attack.
39:15I have absolutely no idea what we did.
39:20But I remember the phone call at 6.20 in the evening.
39:26And it was a police officer saying,
39:28we need to come and see you, are you at home?
39:30And that was a, oh my God, moment.
39:33And I said, you're telling me that David's died.
39:35And they were resistant from telling me.
39:37I said, no, you wouldn't want to come and see me if it was bad,
39:39if it was good news.
39:40You'd tell me now, wouldn't you?
39:42And they said, yes, we can confirm that David died at Edgeware Road.
39:48So I came in Saturday night and told her.
39:50And we had a hug and we had a cry.
39:54And we told some friends, we told family.
39:57And then we went to bed.
40:02A difficult night, we didn't really sleep.
40:05We tried to remember all the good things.
40:09Which was easy, because we had so many.
40:17He was very bright, very quick-minded, a lively lad.
40:23And I'm his father, so I'm going to tell you
40:25he's the best son that's ever lived.
40:31The last time we saw David was the night before the attack.
40:37David was invited down to London.
40:39A bit of a last-minute invitation.
40:42So we had to do a journey plan to get him from Euston
40:44to Farringdon, on the circle line.
40:48I remember saying to him,
40:49at that time of the morning, it'll be rammed.
40:52So when the doors open, take two paces forward
40:55and grab a pole, and just do not move.
41:00David was killed by Mohamed Sadiq Khan at Edgeware Road.
41:05He got on the circle line, but went the wrong way.
41:12It was his first trip to London.
41:15And his first time on the Tube.
41:19So that was hard to hear.
41:32With fresh leads emerging all the time, in Buckinghamshire, police have been scouring a house which it's believed had been
41:39rented by the King's Cross bomber.
41:41Jermaine Lindsay, he was the fourth bomber.
41:44A 19-year-old from a very different demographic background, who is a convert to Islam at some point in
41:53his teens.
41:54Jermaine Lindsay's classmates said they found him increasingly difficult to talk to in the final years of school.
42:00And he came back with this totally different attitude.
42:03And said he was in the middle of one summer, did he?
42:05One summer. I think so.
42:06One summer.
42:07Like he was saying.
42:08He took Urdu lessons and he was passionate about his religion.
42:12Passionate.
42:13And that was his life. His religion was his life.
42:15Yeah, it was.
42:16It appears that he had had a challenging family and domestic background and seems to have completely changed personality.
42:25And then turns up as one of the four bombers on the 7th of July.
42:32Was that a big question mark for you? How were they connected?
42:36Early days, but then the common denominator became geographic.
42:40We learned that Jermaine Lindsay had met up with the others because they frequented the same areas and had similar
42:49influences.
43:03I cannot deny playing a vital role, a pivotal role, in the Islamisation of Jermaine Lindsay.
43:18We were getting bodied out for probably 10 days. We were all exhausted.
43:24We were down there 18 hours a day minimum, every day.
43:28Could take about eight hours or more to get one body out.
43:39How do you feel towards the bomber?
43:42It's a hard question, isn't it?
43:48To see the amount of death that he caused innocent people.
43:59I can't... Can I hate him?
44:01I don't know.
44:04I could probably hate him.
44:11and there is a photograph of me driving an electric train but it's like I'm not there
44:20I look into my eyes and I don't see me
44:26it's when you start to reflect upon it and the subsequent effect it's had on your life
44:35you've seen senseless death it's always there it doesn't go away
44:42it's something you don't want to burden anybody else with because of the the horrors of it it's
44:47a personal thing I remember the last day when we left Russell Square and we walked into Russell
45:02Square Gardens which was just a sea of flowers and and it I just I just cried I sobbed
45:22Russell Square is the best thing I ever did in my life
45:27because I looked after the people that were dead
45:44police officers came to tell us that David was in the motor and would we like to go and see
45:48him
46:00we'd been warned that it would be difficult
46:05but you have to see your son you can't not see him
46:12so we went in and sat with him for a while
46:16there was no conscious thoughts going through our minds at that point our brains were just full
46:20of emotion so there was no real thought I remember we we were just together
46:35and then we came out and I was given a cardboard box the size of a shoe box
46:42and in it with a few bits and pieces of David's belongings
46:46David's birthday is in March and for his birthday I'd bought him a watch
46:50it was completely unmarked despite the fact David was only a metre away from the bomb
47:02the next thing that we decided we'd do was we'd get on the tube
47:07go to Edgewater Road
47:10so we were just passengers getting on a very busy train and we just went to a few stops
47:14just like all the other commuters
47:19it was just something that Janet and I needed to do
47:22to be on that journey that David must have taken
47:27and we also felt it was an important message
47:31because we were prepared to give anything to the bombers
47:35that they'd achieved something by making people fearful of the tube
47:55I have finally and reluctantly come to the conclusion that my son was involved in the bus blast
48:06Haseeb must have perceived his victims as faceless strangers
48:14rather than people with loves, lives, families and careers
48:24why did he seek this notoriety?
48:27did he convince himself he would be rewarded?
48:36Mr Hussein went through the usual stages of grief, disbelief, anger
48:40he was very angry at one point
48:42we had a few angry days
48:44you know
48:45and then I would just make my visits brief
48:48I knew when to withdraw
48:54I do wonder why Haseeb did what he did
49:00because he came from such a loving
49:06family
49:11when it became apparent that they had no knowledge of their son's involvement
49:17all they wanted was his body back
49:19that's all they kept saying
49:20we just want his body back
49:21why can't we have his body back
49:22and of course I couldn't
49:24it took a long time to get his body back
49:26there wasn't much of him to come back to be honest
49:29very very little
49:31and as soon as they did get their body back that was it
49:34I wasn't allowed in the house anymore
49:37the shutters came down
49:44was Haseeb entirely aware of what he was doing
49:47and if so
49:50what inspired him to blow himself up?
49:55could I have done anything to spark my son's radicalization?
50:01if I or any member of my family had suspected anything about Haseeb
50:07I would have spoken to him
50:09but we never saw anything suspicious
50:18this is the uncomfortable truth
50:21it is a truth I have wrestled with over the years
50:26the Metropolitan Police Commissioner has appealed to Muslim communities
50:30to end what he called a denial
50:32that there were extremists in their midst
50:34it is not the police
50:36it is not the intelligence services
50:39who will defeat terrorism
50:40it is communities who will defeat terrorism
50:44we have to seize a moment
50:46in which the Muslim communities of Britain
50:49changes from a current position of shock and disbelief
50:53into active engagement in counter-terrorism
50:58the jihadist rhetoric had been so rampant in the UK
51:03prepare as much as you can
51:06you know people are bound to get radicalized
51:09from space and from holes
51:11too terrified
51:13terrorized
51:13for a long time I lived for death
51:17I believe because
51:18I was committed to attaining
51:20what we considered martyrdom
51:23that is the problem
51:24that people like myself
51:26or Muhammad Siddiq Khan
51:28we believed in what we were going to do or did
51:32to have been according to what pleases God
51:34but it was wrong
51:47by the grace of God
51:48I have been afforded the time
51:50to think
51:51to learn
51:52to reflect
51:53and change
51:54so I do what I do now
52:07if I had met Muhammad Siddiq Khan
52:09I would have sat down with him
52:11and said
52:13brother
52:13who convinced you
52:15against the prophet's teaching
52:17why are you so naive
52:21that this is not Islam
52:22this is something God hates
52:24this is something the prophet would not have approved
52:27what I would try and foster is
52:29think for yourself
52:30who are you
52:33you are accountable to God
52:38much of jihad is waged
52:40because we want to help
52:42suffering people
52:43we are not taught to see the suffering
52:46on the other side
52:47that's where the mistake lies
52:57after 77
52:59once Obama's identity is known
53:02you wonder whether
53:04could we have prevented
53:05what had happened
53:10you need to look back
53:12to see if we've missed something
53:14if there were lessons to be learned
53:20looking back
53:21we discovered
53:22Muhammad Siddiq Khan
53:23and Shawaz Tanwir
53:25in the margins
53:25of the crevice plot
53:32the plan was to kill
53:34large numbers of people
53:36their targets were nightclubs
53:38synagogues
53:40and shopping centres
53:41we had extensive coverage of that plot
53:44and we knew who the plotters were
53:51our judgment at the time
53:53and I'm sure this was correct
53:54was that Muhammad Siddiq Khan
53:56and Shawaz Tanwir
53:58weren't part of the crevice plot
54:00the leader of the crevice
54:02had something like 4,000 contacts
54:05it's not feasible
54:07to identify all of those
54:12Irma Kayyam
54:13was the leader of the crevice plot
54:24when 77 happened
54:26I was at the Old Bailey
54:27representing Irma Kayyam
54:31and I suppose you had absolutely no idea
54:33there was any connection
54:34oh I had no idea at the time
54:36that there was any connection
54:37with any of this
54:37but I realised
54:39having done a few terrorism cases
54:40that the same names came up
54:42the same methodology came up
54:46there was links
54:48whether directly or indirectly
54:50there was a network
54:51and that was clear
55:03get in bro
55:24how long does it take
55:25to get to the training camp
55:26you're going to the tribal areas
55:28I'll tell you up there
55:29you can get your head cut off
55:31don't tell your real name
55:32to no one
55:36with regards to the baby
55:38I'm debating whether or not
55:40to say goodbye
55:41when the time comes for you
55:42to leave at the end of the day
55:44tell them you love them
55:45it's because we love
55:46the Islamic way of life
55:47this much
55:49that's why we stay away from them
55:51I know it's better for them
55:53it's one way to take it bro
56:04I've not got too long to go now
56:08and I'm going to really really miss you
56:12they'll do what I'm doing
56:14for the sake of Islam
56:18I just so much wanted to be
56:20I know it's better for you
56:20but I have to do
56:23this thing for our future
56:27during the wiretap in the car
56:29they are discussing
56:30travelling to Pakistan
56:32to go to terrorist training camps
56:34would that not trigger
56:36the need to identify this person
56:38we didn't know of that
56:40till after 7-7
56:41but even had we picked it up
56:43at the time
56:44they were talking about
56:46leaving
56:47and not coming back
56:54there was clearly no plot
56:56there was no 7-7 plot
57:03Pakistan
57:04do you feel like that is a point
57:06where they link up with Al-Qaeda
57:08for the first time
57:10what I feel or not feel
57:11is irrelevant
57:18but guessing
57:21it appears that while they were there
57:24it was suggested to them
57:26that their efforts would be better
57:28spent attacking the UK
57:38your democratically elected governments
57:41continuously perpetuate atrocities
57:43against my people
57:45all over the world
57:46whether they thought that for themselves
57:49or instructed
57:50or inspired
57:51I don't know
57:52we are at war
57:54united soldiers
57:55now you too
57:56will taste the reality
57:57of this situation
58:03we need to establish
58:04a number of things
58:05who supported them
58:07who financed them
58:09who trained them
58:10who encouraged them
58:14I feared that
58:15Mohammed Sadiq Khan
58:17and Shahzad Tanvir
58:18they were part of a larger network
58:20that were going to carry out
58:22another attack
58:237-7 wasn't just
58:25an isolated event
58:34we're getting reports
58:35of a series of incidents
58:37we're coming now
58:38please keep moving
58:39this could be
58:41a second wave of attacks
58:43it's a bomb
58:44he's trying to kill us
58:47what went on
58:48it was madness
58:49residents were fleeing
58:50for their lives
58:54they're not warriors
58:55they were just cowards
58:58they were just
59:00no
59:01no
59:31Transcription by CastingWords
59:35Transcription by CastingWords
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