00:00We're one of the fastest growing chocolate brands in the world.
00:02That's how we get children out of child labour.
00:04That's how we change the industry.
00:12Welcome to The Big Question,
00:13the series from Euronews
00:15where we speak to some of the biggest names in business.
00:18I'm Hannah Brown and today I'm joined by
00:20the CEO of Tony's Choco Lonely, Douglas Lamont.
00:22Douglas, thank you very much for joining me.
00:25Pleasure. Good to be here.
00:26So Tony's was founded in 2005
00:28as a protest against widespread
00:30child exploitation and slavery in the chocolate industry.
00:33So, you know, we're about 21 years later.
00:35How is the industry looking now?
00:37Well, it's a slow process for change as we've discovered
00:40but I feel like we've made good progress
00:42in terms of people becoming much more aware
00:45of the challenges in West Africa.
00:47Also, as a company, what we wanted to do
00:49was show that you could do things differently.
00:51You could build a model that was more sustainable
00:53that supported farmers in a different way.
00:55We have an initiative called Tony's Open Chain
00:57that has brought over 20 other partners on board with us now
01:00who source their cocoa in partnership with us.
01:04But, you know, we're still a very small percent
01:06and we're about 1% of the total industry
01:08and we need further change to happen
01:10to deliver for farmers in West Africa.
01:13So just to give us some context,
01:15how big is the chocolate industry in Europe in 2026?
01:18The total size is about a 42 billion category in Europe
01:21so it's pretty massive.
01:22and then when you, you know, you look at the sort of global industry
01:25it's more than double that again.
01:27It's a huge global product
01:29but 60% of the world's cocoa comes out of, you know, West Africa,
01:33Ivory Coast, Ghana
01:34and so that puts a lot of pressure on making sure
01:37that the model in West Africa is right
01:40to avoid exploitation of the cocoa farmer.
01:43What kind of percent of that industry would you think
01:45is still kind of fuelled by exploitation?
01:47Well, I think the reality is an entrenched problem, you know,
01:50and even in our supply chain
01:51we track and monitor child labour every year
01:53and you discover cases of child labour.
01:56Our average, as we go out into the meet every family
01:59is around 4% of households
02:01where we discover cases of child labour.
02:03Within industry, that's typically been over 40%.
02:05So, you know, a huge problem continues to exist
02:08and what we see from a living income perspective,
02:11you know, less than 40% of families
02:13working on cocoa farms are earning a living income.
02:15And how do you actually go about uncovering
02:17and solving kind of exploitation within the supply chain?
02:20So we have a model called the five sourcing principles
02:22and that starts with traceability.
02:24So making sure that we know every single farm
02:26that our beans come from.
02:28We then work, you know, in partnership with farmers
02:31to build a strong farmer base.
02:32We give them long-term contracts, asymmetric contracts.
02:36So we will always buy from them at the living income price.
02:39They don't have to sell to us.
02:40If they get a higher price from somewhere else,
02:42it puts the power in their hands.
02:43But the commitment is that we pay, you know,
02:46a living income reference price,
02:47which right now we're paying a 45% premium
02:50to the farm gate price in West Africa.
02:53That combination of things
02:54means the farmer has a little bit more money in his pocket,
02:57can invest in his farm
02:58and can afford to send his children to school.
03:00You know, your brand name, Tony's Chocka Lonely,
03:03obviously that lonely part came from
03:05your founder feeling kind of quite isolated
03:06in his fight against exploitation.
03:09How do you think that is changing?
03:10Do you still feel lonely?
03:11No, I think we're feeling less lonely.
03:14I think in two ways.
03:15So we have an initiative, as I said,
03:17called Tony's Open Chain,
03:18where we offer our cocoa sourced ethically
03:21to anybody that wants it.
03:22And we have many partners,
03:23including private label brands
03:25like Albert Heine and Waitrose,
03:26come on board and support us
03:28and buy their cocoa through us.
03:30And brands like Ben & Jerry's,
03:32you know, sourcing their chocolate
03:33for their ice cream through us.
03:34So that means that we're not just Tony's as a brand.
03:37It's a collective now of 22 mission ally partners,
03:40which I think is fantastic.
03:41If you're going to solve these entrenched problems
03:44in the supply chain,
03:45we have to collaborate in the supply chain.
03:47Let's compete at shelf,
03:48but let's collaborate in the supply chain.
03:56Let's talk about pricing.
03:58According to data from Eurostat,
04:00consumer chocolate pricing rose 17.9%
04:03across the EU in 2025,
04:05which was the highest increase of any food item.
04:08And to put that in context,
04:09the average inflation across food
04:10and non-alcoholic beverages
04:11was on average 3.3%.
04:14So what exactly caused such a steep increase
04:17in the price of chocolate?
04:18So the main point was that cocoa itself
04:21went up five times in price.
04:23So 500% increase in the cost of cocoa,
04:26or two bad harvests in a row.
04:27As a result, two different things,
04:29one very dry and then very wet.
04:31And then the second year,
04:32almost the other way around,
04:34which meant that you had two very bad crops
04:36and global demand for cocoa continues to rise.
04:39That combination drives really low yield
04:42and high demand.
04:43And then the economics follow from there.
04:45The prices spiked.
04:46If we're going to survive as a business
04:48and to be able to make the numbers add up,
04:51we needed to pass prices through to consumer
04:54to make sure that the farmer
04:55didn't pay the price for that.
04:57And so how are we looking now?
04:58You know, are we going to see
05:00more steep prices in 2026?
05:02So again, the prices are now on the ground
05:05in West Africa gone completely the other way.
05:07So we've seen a massive decline in the cocoa price.
05:11As a result of prices going up,
05:12consumer demand falls away,
05:14a better crop,
05:15and you get into this reverse situation.
05:20Again, really frustrating from our point of view.
05:22We're not celebrating those low prices in the market.
05:24What we want is a consistent,
05:26strong living income price for the farmer,
05:28which is now substantially above where the price is today.
05:31Everyone buys 12 months forward.
05:33So what we're buying now
05:34will be fed through into consumer prices
05:36in a year's time.
05:37And right now everyone's selling cocoa
05:39that they bought at very, very high prices.
05:42My argument is actually, yes,
05:43the big companies should invest
05:45in the farmer living income price,
05:47commit to that living income premium like we do,
05:50rather than passing all of it back
05:52to consumers or retailers.
05:53In the past, everyone said,
05:54oh, we can't do it
05:56because if we put the price up,
05:57consumers will never pay the premium.
05:58We're seeing consumers on the whole
06:00paying those premiums.
06:01So that money is there to invest in the farmer.
06:04That's how we create a more stable industry.
06:06That's how we get children out of child labor.
06:08That's how we change the industry.
06:10Do you think there's anything
06:11that needs to be done
06:11around the public perception of prices?
06:13Tony's Chocoloney is often seen
06:16as a more premium priced chocolate,
06:17but is it a premium chocolate
06:20or is it just what exploitation-free chocolate costs?
06:23We don't see ourselves as sort of a super premium brand
06:25and actually part of the reason
06:27that our bars, people perceive us to be expensive
06:29is because our bar is really big and chunky
06:31compared to most bars on shelf.
06:33So yes, the absolute price point is higher,
06:36but the amount of chocolate you get for that
06:38is also substantially more.
06:40So on a sort of per kilogram basis,
06:42our chocolate is typically at a 20, 25% premium
06:46to other bars on the shelf,
06:47which I think is a price worth paying.
06:49And I think the fact that we're one
06:51of the fastest growing chocolate brands in the world
06:52suggests that many other people think
06:54it's a price worth paying as well.
06:56Brilliant.
06:57And you are quite successful
06:58in this vision that you have.
06:59What are you aiming to achieve
07:00in the next 10 years, we'll say?
07:03Look, for us, more volume equals more beans
07:05equals more impact on the ground for farmers.
07:07So yeah, do I want to double the size of the company?
07:10Of course I do,
07:10because that's doubling the number of beans
07:12we're sourcing in an ethical way,
07:14paying a living income price for West African farmers.
07:17And that's exactly what we're all about.
07:19Our other ambition is to change the industry.
07:22So Tony's being good on its own is not enough.
07:24And so creating that tipping point
07:26where more of the industry steps
07:28into a commitment for living income
07:30is actually our true ambition.
07:31I see myself as CEO of the mission,
07:34not CEO of the brand.
07:35And the mission is together,
07:37ending exploitation in cocoa.
07:38That's way beyond what we do as a brand.
07:41It involves the whole of the industry.
07:43And that's a big challenge.
07:45And on that note,
07:46thank you very much for your insight today
07:47and for joining me on The Big Question.
07:49Pleasure and great to have you here.
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