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My Killer Father The Green Hollow Murders - Season 1 Episode 3
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00:01We got underneath this tree and I said, shit, Don, this will be a fucking graveyard.
00:06He says, it is.
00:07I finally have a chance to be out in the hills with the right equipment, with the right team.
00:13My specialty is in forensic anthropology.
00:16That's an alert.
00:17We are death investigators.
00:19I want to be creating the crime scene to see where do the shell casings go.
00:25I saw my dad slamming that lady's head into the arm of the couch.
00:31There's no doubt she was dead.
00:33I am honored that I'm able to tell your mom's story.
00:36No one's ever going to convince me that the bodies aren't up here.
00:39I just haven't found them yet.
00:40They're not lying.
00:41I'm not lying.
00:43I came up here tonight to defend my family against your fat little mouth.
00:47Do you think I like trying to prove that my dad's a criminal and a murderer and nobody believing me?
00:52What you've been looking for all these years is sitting right behind you under the ground.
01:02Police in western Iowa are searching for any sign of a serial killer.
01:12The woman claims her late plot are killed at least 50 women and used his children to help bury them.
01:18Walk as children with blood waters over there.
01:23Ain't no devil gon' be where we'd go.
01:48Hi.
01:49How you doing?
01:51Want a picture of this beautiful?
01:53You know, I was named after Marilyn Monroe.
02:13I hesitated to have this conversation with anybody because of Lucy, because I don't like her.
02:21She told lies about me, but I need these things to come out because they're eating me alive.
02:36I was a seventh of seven children.
02:39I was born a studie and Donald Dean's studie with my brother, my oldest brother.
02:48My mom was a prostitute, and she used to get to town and go to bars and leave us kids
02:57alone.
02:57Don was the only one there.
03:00We were very close.
03:01It was almost like I was his daughter.
03:04He would say, little girl, I was there when you were born.
03:07I watched you take your first breath.
03:10He loved me all my life.
03:13He'd been there.
03:14He was kind of like my guardian angel.
03:17When we didn't have money for pill trips at school, Don came up with the money.
03:22When I was dating, he'd tell me, that guy's not for you.
03:26I don't want you dating him.
03:27He actually...
03:32Wives...
03:34Actually killed somebody because of me.
03:38One day, we were coming home.
03:40We stopped to get gas.
03:42And the guy was pumping the gas.
03:45I looked at him.
03:46Oh, shit.
03:47I put my head down like this.
03:49And Don, he says, what's wrong?
03:51What is wrong?
03:52There's something wrong.
03:54And I said, that's one of the guys that raped me, Don.
03:57He said, look at him real good.
04:01Make damn sure that's him.
04:03So, he got out of the car and followed the man to the inside of the gas station.
04:09There was nobody else around.
04:10And I could see Don beating him or something.
04:13Got in the cash register and took all the money.
04:15Came back out of the car.
04:17He says, he'll never rape anybody else.
04:20We drove away.
04:22I kept my mouth shut.
04:24Anything Don did, I never told.
04:27I loved him more than anything in this world.
04:29All my life, he's been there.
04:33How many people did you see Don kill?
04:42Two.
04:44I know the names.
04:45But I can't tell you the names.
04:47Because my life would be in jeopardy.
04:52So long ago right now.
04:54Yeah.
04:55No.
04:57I'm on parole.
04:58I've got to be careful.
05:01How many people do you think Don killed?
05:04I couldn't begin to tell you.
05:11Maybe a hundred.
05:14Didn't bother him.
05:16He was like, dead inside.
05:19Like Ted Bundy.
05:21All these other killers.
05:22They were born that way.
05:25Killing don't bother them.
05:30One time he took me up on the hill.
05:33I don't know exactly where it was.
05:35We got underneath this tree and we were talking.
05:38I looked around and I said,
05:40Shit, Don, this is like a fucking graveyard.
05:43He says it is.
05:46It is.
05:49Lucy is telling the truth.
05:51I know 100% in my heart that if they dug up that well, they're going to find out she
05:59was right.
06:10Today is the day that we excavate, hopefully, two wells.
06:15I'm excited that I finally have a chance to be out in the hills with the right equipment, a forensic
06:22team, and an excavation team.
06:29The property owner is a man named Sean Smith.
06:34My dad always told us,
06:38Do not trust a fucking Smith.
06:40And as a kid, we came across a lot of marijuana growing on Smith's property.
06:47They had a good size operation going.
06:50And my dad took advantage of that.
06:53If Smith would have never touched the land, I could have walked right up to the wells again.
06:59He has bulldozed and destroyed.
07:03And nobody has stopped him.
07:15My dad took bodies up from our ravine.
07:21And this is the road that Smith bulldozed for the FBI and DCI.
07:30Look at him laughing.
07:31Look at him.
07:33Watch.
07:34He'll be laughing.
07:35See?
07:36Yeah.
07:37I came up and I showed him exactly where the wells are, and this is what he's done.
07:42Yeah.
07:48Lucy has bad-mouthed me, done so much, so many texts, talking about how much she hated me and how
07:55much bad I was.
07:57All I did was take a dozer and I made a path for him to get down there.
08:02Was there a family rivalry around marijuana or anything like that?
08:06No.
08:07The marijuana thing is something we just heard of since Lucy has brought this up.
08:11My dad was a straight person, and he'd be the last person in the world to have anything to do
08:15with drugs.
08:16I still think she dealt with stuff when she was a kid that's traumatized her.
08:22I don't think she knows where everything's located, but I 100% believe there's something up here.
08:33Over here.
08:42This tree that's been cut down, when I was up here with my dad, I'd lean up against this tree.
08:48The well was here.
08:50So this is the spot?
08:51It's got to be here.
08:53Good.
08:54Okay.
08:54Excellent.
08:57That's going to rain like a cow pissing on a flat rock.
09:02My name is William R. Belcher, and I'm an associate professor at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln.
09:08My specialty is in forensic anthropology.
09:11I've been running excavations for over 30 years.
09:17I think it's going to be here.
09:19My expectation is that if we find the well and are able to excavate it safely, that we will recover
09:27human remains.
09:34On this particular case with Don Studi, we contacted different agencies, family members, old girlfriends, to see if there was
09:46any truth to this.
09:48And they're all like, yes.
09:52Everything added up to this being a very violent man who would beat and kill at the drop of a
10:00hat.
10:02I'm excited to see what we find.
10:05I've been working on this story for two and a half years, and there's no resolution.
10:10So maybe we can get to that point.
10:13Okay, let's go to work.
10:15Joe, Joe!
10:18My name is Jim Peters, and I have a business known as Samaritan Detection Dogs.
10:24We travel around the Midwest looking for dead men, missing people.
10:31I do believe there are human remains on that land.
10:33I just don't know if they're historic.
10:36Let's go.
10:36There isn't a differentiation in the odor from somebody that's been dead 10 minutes, 10 years, or 1,000 years.
10:46That's an alert.
10:48No.
10:50That's an alert.
10:54Well?
10:56What'd you find?
10:57Both dogs had interest from those root balls over to the vicinity of that stump, and really no place else.
11:07Okay.
11:14Being around my dad, you always wondered when you were going to die.
11:20My dad is properly buried in a cemetery, and he doesn't deserve that.
11:25These people do.
11:29In the well that's on the left hill, there's two women in there.
11:36They're mid-30 to 35.
11:39I know they're in there.
11:40I saw them.
11:46Lucy, where are you going?
11:49There's a right hill well.
11:53The well that was to the right of my dad's trailer.
11:57I know there's two men in there.
11:59I believe there's a guy named Gordon in that well, too.
12:04I've been trying to tell people about my dad ever since I could remember.
12:09One time I went to school and told the teacher.
12:21My dad convinced them that it was all a lie, and it's because my mom died.
12:26He had this whole little speech worked out.
12:29He was pretty convincing.
12:32We made it back to Green Hollow, and he yanked me out of the car and continued beating me into
12:39the trailer house.
12:41He picked me up off the floor and had me by the neck, and he had me against the wall,
12:49and he just kept choking me.
12:52I remember hearing, Dad, Dad, you're killing her.
12:57And Gary was on one arm, and Susan was on the other arm trying to stop Dad.
13:05They broke Dad's hold on me, and I remember dropping down.
13:11I thought I was dead.
13:15My beatings were mostly when I didn't shut up.
13:21Why didn't I shut up?
13:27He told me there's not a person in that well that didn't fucking deserve it.
13:37Basically, what you have ultimately in this is really two different cases.
13:42You have the issue of whether Don Studi was a serial killer that preyed on transient women and then disposed
13:48of them in his well,
13:49and a guy that, for whatever reason, gets tired of a particular wife and kills her.
13:58I'm Stuart Fillmore.
13:59I'm a retired FBI agent.
14:01I served from 1987 to 2016.
14:04I spent my entire career, those 29 years, doing field investigations.
14:09I was what was called a street agent.
14:11I was asked for my assessment of the police reports, the original autopsy file,
14:18the second autopsy that had been done.
14:21To me, it's a puzzle to try to solve and visualize what is the autopsy, what is it telling you,
14:28and how does this fit together?
14:31My name is Dr. Jan Gorniak, and I'm a board-certified forensic pathologist.
14:37I'm totally independent.
14:40I can read the signs, but the body's really going to tell the story.
14:46We are death investigators.
14:48Everything that we do, every case that comes in, is a puzzle.
14:52That's the part I like.
14:54And then also being able to give family answers to help them understand, you know, why their loved one has
15:01passed.
15:02My passion are suicide deaths.
15:06Those are the ones that are so sudden and so unexpected that family members sometimes don't want to believe that's
15:14their cause or their manner of death.
15:17So it's important that we tell the story and we tell it right.
15:22Family members have a difficult time accepting their loved one died by their own hands.
15:27How many times have you come across in the history of your career a woman who committed suicide out of
15:34a firearm?
15:37A lot, and those are those myths, that women won't use a firearm to kill themselves.
15:44Firearms are the number one killer, the method that people use for suicide.
15:51That's number one.
15:53Number one.
16:02The issue with Charlotte, I mean, the whole reason the police get there is because Don calls them.
16:10They seem to just take Don Studi's word.
16:14You know, he tells them they had fought and she had threatened suicide before.
16:19She had a drinking problem.
16:22She had grabbed her rifle.
16:25In fact, they end up giving the rifle back to him a couple months later.
16:30There wasn't a lot of attention to detail that some of the normal procedures that should have been done weren't
16:36done, like checking previous criminal history.
16:43They could have just completely arrived at the scene, saw this man as the husband, everything on the surface looks
16:54consistent with the suicide, case closed.
17:00So, here's a real problem for me.
17:03Some stippling was found on Charlotte's elbow.
17:07This was February in Omaha.
17:10It's going to be cold, it's going to be cold, it's going to be cold, and she had a jacket
17:13on.
17:13If you're wearing a jacket, you're not going to have stippling on your arm.
17:18That, to me, is a huge problem.
17:21That further implies that we may be dealing with a staged crime scene.
17:26Another thing that's somewhat suspicious is, when Don finds Charlotte, you know, he doesn't break a window.
17:35And also, we know from the report, Don's duty drives home.
17:39That just tells me there's not a lot of urgency there.
17:42I'm just going to go back home and make the call.
17:46So, that doesn't add up.
17:48What we found out is this is a 612-page FBI report.
17:51Yes.
17:52The 612 pages, okay, that's an enormous FBI file.
17:58This guy was either an arch-criminal of some kind or a long-time criminal that was involved in so
18:05many things that the FBI ran across that his name always ended up in reports.
18:10One of the most famous cases in the FBI was John Dillinger.
18:14The FBI brand was built on the fact that they got Dillinger.
18:19And his file might be just over a thousand pages.
18:22So, my point is that even with one of the most famous cases that the FBI worked, it is just
18:28a little bit longer than Donald Studi's case.
18:32Something's going on here.
18:33All these suspicious things about Don's duty, and then you have this question of either, do you have incompetent police
18:42investigation or a corrupt investigation?
18:45It makes it an even more compelling story, and I think it's an important one to tell and to further
18:51investigate.
19:11One of the things that we found of interest, if you look at this darker brown material versus this tan
19:19material,
19:19we've got a definite line, we've got color changes, it may be a well shaft, but we certainly are beginning
19:25to see the shape of something that's sort of boboid.
19:31This has got to be a, there's an overhang, and that dead white tree's been there forever.
19:41We'll continue working and see what we can get.
19:53I've got them. It was hard, but, um, this is my well.
19:58You know, I've sat by this well so many times, and I thought this was going to be my burial
20:04site.
20:05I just want these people up.
20:08Nobody deserves to be thrown in a well and forgotten about.
20:17But if you don't mind, I'd like to just spend some time here, Paul, without your camera or you.
20:22You got it. You got it.
20:32I used to talk to the people in the well, and I made them a promise that I would bring
20:38them up,
20:38that I would make sure that, you know, people knew about them.
20:52As a kid, I saw my dad slamming that lady's head into the arm of the couch,
21:01and he was just slamming her hard, and then she just went limp.
21:10Another lady he killed on the living room floor.
21:14He was stomping her head in, kicking her rib.
21:17She stopped moving.
21:19There's no doubt she was dead.
21:23I feel personally responsible for some of those women.
21:27I could have screamed, yelled, hollered.
21:29I could have tried to force dad off.
21:31You know, I could have, you know, I'll be honest.
21:36My dad did murder on purpose, but not always.
21:44Dad's complicated.
21:46I did love him.
21:50I think you could love and hate someone at the same time.
22:15I wanted to come here and pay my respects to my father.
22:20He is at peace.
22:22That's one thing I'm thankful for.
22:26Here's my father.
22:29My stepmother used to be here,
22:32but my sister had her body dug up for no reason, all for a lie.
22:38May they be together forever.
22:42I know he truly loved her.
22:47He wasn't evil, and he was no murderer.
22:53The truth will come out sooner or later.
22:55I want to prove Lucy wrong.
22:58She's the one that drug me and my family into this mess,
23:01and I want to be the one to get us out of it.
23:07I don't know how to prove what I'm saying is true,
23:10except just to keep talking.
23:12I mean, it's been a nightmare.
23:20God knows we don't need any more damage done.
23:24You can scour every inch of those grounds.
23:26There is nothing there.
23:28Nothing whatsoever.
23:29There will be nothing found.
23:47It's morbid, praying for a bone, you know?
23:50That means somebody died.
23:52You're trying to bring closure to people.
23:55And yourself.
23:59Do you think that that staining disappeared pretty quickly?
24:15Lucy, when we were able to identify that sort of oval stain,
24:19that we thought it was a pit that was dug,
24:20but it seems to be very ephemeral and has disappeared.
24:26Okay.
24:28And you don't think it's a will?
24:30Right now, I think that the stain has disappeared.
24:35There's nothing here that we could see.
24:42I'm disappointed it's not the will.
24:59How did Don get away with doing all the things you say he did?
25:05How'd he get away with it?
25:12Well, he could convince you of anything.
25:15My brother Don's a very strange person.
25:18He's quiet.
25:19He never made jokes.
25:20He never laughed.
25:22He studied people.
25:26He's always very smart when it comes to people.
25:29People are scared of him.
25:32I've gotten Bartlett.
25:34My brother Don was always violent.
25:36Did you ever see Don violent before?
25:38Yes.
25:39Yes.
25:40You want to talk about Lucy now?
25:44So this one day, Pat and I had to go to Denver.
25:47We decided, we're going to surprise Don and Lucy and go see them.
25:53Well, when we pulled up to their house, there's all kinds of people outside the house.
26:00What's going on here?
26:01Oh, my God.
26:02Susan grabbed me.
26:03She says, how did you know?
26:07I said, know what?
26:09Lucy killed herself last night.
26:11You're shitting me.
26:14I went in the house.
26:15Lucy, Don.
26:17I'm looking.
26:18There ain't nobody there.
26:19The kids aren't there.
26:20Something wasn't right.
26:24It looked like they were in a fight.
26:26The furniture was toppled.
26:29And it was gone.
26:31Awful smell.
26:33The smell of death in the kitchen because it was in the kitchen closet where she's hung.
26:38It was like a kitchen storage place for food.
26:44But it had like a clothes thing, you know.
26:48Lucy's about the same size as me.
26:52If I had hung in there, I could have put my feet down and stopped and hang on.
27:02Don told me what really went down.
27:05The night that happened, they had been out drinking.
27:09That right there told me Don was not in his right mind.
27:14Don had alcohol on him.
27:16He's a different human being.
27:18And I said, Donnie, did you kill Lucy?
27:24He looks at me and says, she said she's going to take my kids and leave.
27:28And I couldn't have that.
27:31That's not exactly what he told me.
27:35I can't begin to tell you how it hurts me to talk to you and actually admit to you what
27:43he's been accused of.
27:44He really did.
27:47I know he did.
27:55When I evaluated all the police reports, I mean, the one thing that jumped out at me was the location
28:02of the shell casing.
28:04It was found on the seat beside Charlotte under her arm.
28:09If this is a suicide, it's unlikely that empty shell casing could end up on the seat, much less under
28:15her arm.
28:17She's holding it out in this manner somehow.
28:20That shell casing is going forward.
28:22It's going to be some fantastic timing for her to shoot herself.
28:26That rifle and her arms are just going to collapse.
28:29And that shell casing to have time to go forward, bounce off something, and then come back and end up
28:36under her arm, beside her, with the gun and everything now in her lap.
28:43So I wanted to recreate the crime scene to see where do the shell casings go.
28:49We couldn't find the exact model car, but we have one with almost exact dimensions.
28:55And then we have a Model 60 Marlin rifle that was found in Charlotte's lap.
29:12I was asked to be part of this recreation because my dimensions of my arm length was matched my mother's,
29:20and I'm about her same height.
29:22Okay, and what I want you to do is maneuver, manipulate that rifle.
29:27Yes.
29:28Okay, so that's it.
29:30That's consistent with the wound path.
29:32And what happens if you just absolutely go limp right there?
29:35Everything goes limp.
29:36So it ends up in your lap with your hand under the rifle.
29:40That's it.
29:41To me, that's the best guess.
29:43This is how we want to now test the ejection of the shell casings.
29:46And I want to now fire up to 50 rounds or so to see where that shell casing goes each
29:53time.
29:54Does it bounce off the dashboard windshield?
29:57Does it go straight down to the floor?
29:58I'm thinking if we have five shell casings that end up on that seat, it's going to surprise me.
30:05I think our test is going to reveal it's not going to end up there at all.
30:08We're going to start to be firing live rounds.
30:10So there's two people touching this gun, only two people touching this gun.
30:14That is Stuart and Paul.
30:17We can shoot up to 48 rounds here.
30:21It may not take that many to establish, you know, what we're trying to do.
30:24Reject your email.
30:25Ready?
30:26Yeah.
30:27Okay.
30:28Safety's off.
30:42Five rounds.
30:43One went forward in the driver's floor.
30:46The other four went straight down, bounced off the glove box, straight on the end of the floor.
30:52So we'll do five more.
30:54Yeah.
30:54I think it was almost 40 rounds through this gun.
30:58You know, we did every angle we could think of.
31:01We even pointed the gun a specific way, trying to get it to bounce off like the windshield to go
31:07to the seat.
31:13Still, everything went to the floor.
31:16What do I know?
31:17Well, in a position where reasonably maybe the shell casing could end up on the seat, we could not recreate
31:26that.
31:27What we know is in the official report is inconsistent with this test and, to me, is more consistent that
31:34this was staged.
31:46Hello?
31:47Can you hear me?
31:49I'm John.
31:49Okay, that's my mama's name.
31:50Marie?
31:51Charlotte?
31:52Dawn?
31:53Dawn.
31:54Okay.
31:54And hi, I'm Jan.
31:55I'm Dr. Goriniac.
31:56So this is a case about your mom.
31:59Yes.
32:00So it came in as a suicide, but it is my opinion that that could not have been a self
32:07-inflicted wound.
32:08I would have ruled this case a homicide from the beginning.
32:14Based on the wound that she has, the police reports and how the weapon was found, it can't be a
32:23suicide.
32:24In order for the weapon to have been in her hands that way, it hadn't been placed there.
32:33Exhale, exhale.
32:36It's okay.
32:38It's been a long time coming.
32:40Yeah, sure has.
32:42Thank you so much.
32:44You are so welcome.
32:46I personally don't like the word exposure, but more of a peace.
32:50Yes.
32:52In our world, we also say to the living, we owe respect.
32:56To the dead, we owe the truth.
32:57Yeah.
32:58I am honored that I'm able to, you know, tell your mom's story the way it should have been told
33:04years ago.
33:05Yes.
33:13And knowing how long it has been for Charlotte's daughters, now they're going to be able to move forward and
33:24to grieve mom.
33:40We've got a limited amount of time for today.
33:43We haven't found anything here that matches the stories and the recollection of Lucy.
33:50So, Lucy, there is a right hill well.
33:53Do you know there are bodies in there?
33:55Yes.
33:56And Sean, that's where you dug already.
33:58Yes.
33:58Do you believe there's a well where you dug?
34:00No, there's definitely not a well there.
34:02Are there any other wells over there?
34:04There's no spot I have found that possibly could be something I could show you.
34:08I mean, this is it, Lucy, this is it.
34:10You've got one more day.
34:11You want to spend the time on the right hill well.
34:13Right hill well.
34:30What is this that we're looking at?
34:32This is what I call the right hill dry well.
34:34This is the one I walked up to by memory.
34:37The stick.
34:38Yes.
34:38Okay.
34:40When we dug in, it was virgin soil all the way.
34:43There was no signs of a well.
34:45Lucy, I think that if we dig here, because much of this dirt has been removed, I don't
34:50think we're going to find anything in this area.
34:54I think that...
34:55This is the only spot that we put bodies in and lie in.
34:59Now, Dad did mention that from there, somewhere up, there used to be a clearing over here in
35:07the tree line.
35:08Let's go check this.
35:09Let's go check this.
35:09We've got a matter of hours.
35:11Okay.
35:15It's up this way, just a little farther.
35:17Okay.
35:20Do you think you know where that will is, up here?
35:23Here.
35:23All I do, I found a spot up here.
35:26Where is it?
35:27Right here.
35:30I say we try it.
35:32Yeah.
35:34If your dad did the things you say he did, it's entirely possible that what you've been
35:40looking for all these years is sitting right behind you under the ground.
35:47Let's dig it.
35:58I have no doubt in my mind about what happened as a child.
36:02What I remember happened.
36:04I'm not a liar.
36:05I didn't hallucinate.
36:06I know what happened.
36:08I do not understand how you could hurt and kill so many people and leave a path of destruction
36:20like he did and get away with it.
36:29Nothing again.
36:30Sorry.
36:31Nothing.
36:35No.
36:39I think that we're done here.
36:42In my opinion, we've exhausted everything that we have right now.
36:48My life would be so much better if I could move on.
36:54Do you think I like living with the memories that I have?
36:59I don't.
37:03Do you think I like trying to prove that my dad's a criminal and a murderer and nobody
37:08believing me?
37:10It's like, how many times can you beat your head against a brick wall over and over and
37:16over?
37:17And just, you know, when do I give up?
37:28I want to make sure that we're covering all the bases.
37:31We're here till the sun goes down.
37:33So we do have time to dig in this area around this stick.
37:40Thank you, everybody, for standing out in the rain, getting cold to satisfy my right-hill
37:45will.
37:46I know that's my right-hill will.
37:53All I wanted was to be on the land with the right equipment and the right expert.
38:00The FBI never allowed me to be up here.
38:03You know, Smith never allowed me to be up here, but I'm up here now.
38:11You said you would work with us.
38:14You said we'd be up there together to do the well.
38:18You said you did it for your cows, but the tree line got torn up and you removed all those
38:24trees and stuff.
38:27I know the bodies are up here and I know my wells.
38:34It just would have been easier if we could have worked together.
38:37Now I would work with you, but if you're going to start this stuff, this will be done.
38:42You turned what I believe is my right-hill will into a cow pond.
38:47And I wondered, is that like a middle finger to me?
38:50You don't know shit.
38:51Everything else you showed has been fake.
38:53Bullshit.
38:55Bullshit.
38:56I have walked that property line from the start and I end up in the same
39:00fucking place.
39:01You didn't know what you were talking about.
39:04I hope you can live with yourself leaving bodies in a well.
39:12Right now, I don't see anything here.
39:15Nothing.
39:15This has to be the spot, but maybe I'm off.
39:20No one's ever going to convince me that the bodies aren't up here.
39:23I just haven't found them yet.
39:25I don't give a fuck what people think about me.
39:28I don't care if the world calls me a liar.
39:31I don't care if they call me crazy.
39:37I told them I would get them out of the well.
39:41I just tried to keep her promise.
39:45And all I got was my stepmom Charlotte up.
39:48My mom's in the ground.
39:50The bodies are still up here.
39:55I think that you have kept your promise of doing the best that you can.
40:00They're really up here.
40:01They are.
40:28I don't care.
40:31years since I've been up here. I think I despise Lucy more than I do anybody in this world.
40:39After the way she's made me and my family suffer for the last two years,
40:44this needs to end. I want to face her. I want to prove to everybody that she's lied from the
40:52very first day. Hi. Hi Susan. It's nice to see you. Where's the so-called hookers, huh?
41:17Where's your bodies at, Lucy? Oh, there's no bodies up here, you dumb cow.
41:24You can call me every name in the book, Susan. Oh, let me guess. It doesn't matter to me. Oh,
41:27I know.
41:28Isn't that weird though? Growing up, you and dad were the best of friends, remember? We were never
41:32the best of friends. Oh, yes, you were. Oh, daddy. Oh, he loved- Do not tell me that dad
41:38and I were
41:38friends. He loved you and you know it. I came up here to get the bodies and to do my
41:43allegations.
41:43I came up here tonight to defend my family against your fat little mouth. Well, what about,
41:48oh, dad was never abusive. What, you mean getting hit with a belt is abuse, Lucy?
41:54It was more than a belt. It was more than a belt. It was common back then. It was more
41:59than a belt,
41:59Susan. Oh, oh, boo hoo. A lot of kids get hit with a belt. So a lot of kids get
42:04picked up and choked by
42:05the throat until they pass out and have to stutter for six months? If I remember right,
42:09you were screaming like a freight train. The whole world against poor, poor Lucy. What about
42:13the women you called bimbos? They left alive. Some did. Oh, some did. You know that for a fact.
42:19We never carried bags alive to the well. No, we did not. Not one. Nope.
42:25You'll never admit it anyway. You've had two and a half years to look for these bodies. I haven't been
42:30up in the hills for two and a half years. I came up here to get the bodies. Go back
42:35to Florida and leave
42:36the rest of us alone. I'm going to prove that dad killed our mom and killed Charlotte and killed
42:42Anna Tordoff. You're a liar. I don't give a fuck what you think I am, Susan. You're a liar.
42:48How many lies have you told? Why don't you stop covering for dad and fucking tell the truth for
42:53once in your life? Somebody better get in between us because I'm not ready to deck her. I said before
42:57I
42:58decked her, I would walk away and leave. I'm leaving. No, I want you to talk to the girls. Nick,
43:03let's go.
43:05I'm going to leave and you're going to talk to Dawn, Marie, and Charlotte. You come over here and
43:10talk to them. Dawn, Marie, and Charlotte. Okay. No, there's nothing to talk about. I'm not going
43:13to criticize my father. If you guys want to talk to me, you guys do outside of us having an
43:18audience,
43:19okay? Is that what this is all about? No. To put on a show for you guys? No. We came
43:22up here to
43:23spread some of mom's ashes and green holler because she loved this place. Yes, I know she did. That's why
43:27we
43:27came up here. This could have been confronted outside the cameras. You keep Lucy away. It's been a long
43:34time. It's been a long time. 40 years. Yeah. We haven't seen each other since the funeral.
43:40I really don't understand why all this happened. This was supposedly the big dig of the century for
43:46Lucy. No bodies are found. I think that basically clears my father. That has nothing to do though with
43:53our mom and your mom. Yeah. All I remember is my door was shut, but she went stomping past my
44:00door. I
44:03saw no gun. I did hear Charlotte say those words. All I heard was, fuck you. I'm going to kill
44:11myself
44:11the way your wife did. And she took off out the door. My dad was home all that night.
44:18The next morning, she goes, girls, wake up. Charlotte's dead.
44:21She did not kill herself. That's what you say. That's not what I say.
44:26Susan, I did see good in your dad and I seen bad. Don't you look at me because you know
44:32damn well
44:33what I'm talking about. And you know what? I know damn well about your mom too. Spill my dad's secrets
44:38and I'll spill some of your mother's too. I lived with her too. I know your dad had a good
44:42side and
44:42I know your dad had a bad side. And so did your mother. Yes, exactly. We all do. You guys
44:47are missing
44:47the point. You guys are trying to get me to criticize my father. Susan, do you remember when he beat
44:51her so
44:52bad? He put her in the hospital and almost killed her. If you guys are going to say that my
44:55dad,
44:55my dad killed Charlotte, we're done. But I never said that now, did I? No, we never said that.
45:00You're the, you're the one that goes on the defense. You're the one that keeps doing that.
45:03We're just asking questions. We're trying to remember things. What do you expect out of me?
45:08You're not going to get anything out of me. This whole story was about 50 to 100 people buried in
45:13wells. That's what it's about. It's not about, it's not entirely about my mom and your mom. You want to
45:18talk about our mothers? We do it privately. Ollie came up to clear my father's name. That's it.
45:25Goodbye. Bye.
45:28Well, she doesn't want to talk on camera because she knows that something will get said that
45:33will make her look bad. Yeah.
45:37I couldn't stay there any longer. I've been right the entire time.
45:44I could tell Lucy was upset that nothing was found. What we witnessed living with him. I'm sorry.
45:51Yeah. We've seen him in action. We've seen you kids get beat. And I mean,
45:55he didn't just beat you with the belt. No. It was not just like a couple slaps with that belt.
46:00He'd
46:01beat you till sometimes they were bleeding. Mm-hmm. He'd have you on the floor kicking and
46:05punching. And then pick you up and throw you across the floor.
46:08Grab your hair and slam your head against everything he could find.
46:12That's why we came forward, Lucy. Mm-hmm. Truly. Mm-hmm.
46:25When we were first approached about doing this documentary,
46:31we were hesitant, very hesitant, because we didn't want to revisit all the pain and the anguish and the
46:39sorrow of what we lived through. The reason we felt like we needed to come forward was to help Lucy,
46:48to show people that she's probably right. Even if Susan won't admit that my dad killed people and put
46:59them in the well, she does know that he killed our mom, he killed our step-mom, and he probably
47:06killed Anna.
47:08You're certain that Susan... Oh, God, yes. She's doing what Dad trained us to do.
47:17Why do you guys keep believing a pathological liar?
47:22Her story is all about revenge for abuse. Oh, you better believe he beat the shit out of us.
47:30But no, that's not why we made Newsweek. We made it over 50 to 70 people, not over my mother
47:36and my stepmother.
47:39Where's the fucking bodies?
47:45I think I believe that Lucy has seen something. I think that there are probably human remains
47:54out here on this farm. It's not an easy task to try to find them. Memory is ephemeral. So something
48:04happened. She saw something. And right now, I don't know what that is.
48:13Maybes are littered everywhere in the story, right? Anything could have happened or nothing happened.
48:24There are a lot more things on Lucy's side than there are against Lucy right now.
48:31There are a lot of people who have come forward. They're not lying. I'm not lying.
48:38I think Susan probably doesn't admit it happened because psychologically, I don't think she probably can.
48:49If my father had done that, I would do everything in the world not to remember.
48:56Is there anything that opens your mind to the possibility that your father was a big killer?
49:06Everybody's capable of killing, but you can't prove my father killed anybody.
49:17Your sister says that everything you say is a lie.
49:23Is there anything you've ever said to us that isn't true?
49:28Not about my dad.
49:31What about when he said the first person you saw your father kill was in Bartlett, Iowa, when you were
49:39four years old?
49:43In Bartlett, Iowa, at four years old. Kill.
49:52And it's tough dealing with this family because I keep going back to this is
49:58I don't know if any of it's true and I'm there's morsels of it that would have to be true.
50:06It's scary.
50:09There's always two sides to a story. Somewhere in the middle is the truth.
50:15Will you ever know 100% what happened?
50:22Don't you think if there was 50 to 70 hookers we would have reported it?
50:35My dad was innocent.
50:39What was he innocent of?
50:43Murdering dozens of women.
50:53If there was a body up there, where would it be?
51:08In a well.
51:13It'd be in a well.
51:25In the pines, in the pines, where the sun ever shines, shivered where the cold winds blowed.
51:39In the pines, in the pines, in the cold lonesome pines, shivered where the cold winds blowed.
51:48Little girl, little girl, little girl, where'd you stay last night, not even your mother knows.
52:08Little girl, little girl, where'd you stay last night, not even your mother knows.
52:18You're awful.
52:18No, I'm lovin' in the pines now.
52:21But you do believe me, but you know you.
52:22And me, I'm all, Rovin's never-
52:23And some people not to care.
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