Us President Trump Once Again Upset With Nato Hot

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00:00NATO is at breaking point.

00:03The most successful defence alliance in history

00:06risks losing support from its biggest backer, the US.

00:10And other members have lost trust in the United States,

00:13putting the collective of 32 countries on rocky ground.

00:17Their pact to come to each other's aid if under attack

00:20is based on trust.

00:22And there's very little of that going around right now.

00:25Elizabeth Braw can tell us more about what that means

00:28and where we're headed.

00:30She's from the Scowcroft Center for Strategy and Security

00:33at the Atlantic Council, an American think tank

00:35that promotes US leadership and transatlantic ties.

00:39Elizabeth, since US President Donald Trump's first term,

00:43he's complained European nations don't pull their weight.

00:45He said they don't have his back in the Iran war.

00:49NATO is undergoing significant pressure to adapt to his demands.

00:54Is the alliance in for some big changes, do you think?

01:02It's not only in for some big changes.

01:05The changes are already happening because, as you said,

01:09the alliance's most important, most powerful member

01:13is in the person of Donald Trump questioning the nature of the alliance,

01:19the value of the alliance, and the more President Trump keeps speaking

01:26or doubting NATO as an alliance, doubting the other member states' commitment,

01:34then the more he does that, the more he weakens NATO.

01:38And even though the other member states are committed,

01:42even though they have no fundamental beef with the alliance,

01:47every time he talks about it, by discrediting it, he weakens it.

01:51And by extension, changes NATO as an alliance.

01:58That doesn't mean it's dead or that it's destined to die.

02:02It just means it's weakened.

02:04And that is regret.

02:08That said, Elizabeth, I think it's interesting then

02:10to have a listen to NATO Chief Mark Rutte

02:13because he's been echoing some of Trump's woes with the group.

02:18So business as usual will not meet this moment.

02:22And allow me here to applaud President Trump

02:26for his bold leadership and vision.

02:28When it came time to provide the logistical and other support

02:32the United States needed in Iran,

02:35some allies were a bit slow, to say the least.

02:39Nearly without exception.

02:41Allies are doing everything the United States is asking.

02:44They have heard and are responding to President Trump's requests.

02:49NATO is there, of course, to protect the Europeans,

02:51but also to protect the United States.

02:54So Trump has managed to change NATO already.

02:59What else does he want from NATO, do you think?

03:06He wants the other allies to do what America needs them to do.

03:13Now, until now, until the Iran war,

03:17or he hadn't made specific requests,

03:19his initial complaint about the other member states,

03:24most of the other member states,

03:26was that they didn't spend enough on their own defence.

03:28And it's interesting to hear how that narrative

03:32has evolved over the years from the time

03:34of his first administration.

03:36He did have a point that they weren't spending enough

03:39on their defence.

03:40But I think already then,

03:42it wasn't really clear whether he wanted them,

03:47he really wanted them to spend more on their defence.

03:49And as a result, to strengthen NATO,

03:53or whether it was just something

03:54that he wanted to complain about

03:56because he felt America was being taken advantage of.

03:59So it's not clear whether in his first term,

04:02his objective really was to strengthen NATO,

04:05or simply to complain about the other NATO member states.

04:12Not all of them, once again,

04:14not all of them were deficient

04:17when it comes to spending.

04:18A number of them, including Estonia, for example,

04:20were spending the required 2%

04:22and even on top of that.

04:26But that was his complaint in the first term.

04:28Now, in the second term, as we know,

04:31his narrative has moved from defence spending

04:35to complaining that the other member states

04:39haven't supported the United States in Iran.

04:41Now, it's worth remembering

04:43that NATO is a defensive alliance

04:46that exists to defend its member states

04:48when they are attacked.

04:51What we have in Iran is

04:53the United States went to war against Iran.

04:55So it's in that context, the aggressor.

05:00So there is no requirement

05:01on the other NATO member states

05:03to support America.

05:05But he, for reasons that remain inexplicable,

05:10seems to expect other NATO member states

05:14to come to America's aid in this war.

05:17But he's been clear about his threats, hasn't he?

05:20I mean, he's been threatening the whole way

05:22to pull the U.S. out of NATO.

05:25But what's more likely,

05:27the U.S. pulling out

05:28or disengaging in some way?

05:33Disengaging, for sure,

05:35if only because leaving NATO

05:38would require congressional approval.

05:41and that would be extremely hard to get

05:43even as Congress currently stands

05:47with Republicans being very loyal

05:53to President Trump.

05:55There is enough support for NATO

05:57within the Republican Party,

05:58which we should remember

05:59has always been the party of strong defense,

06:04of strong transatlantic ties.

06:05There is enough of that left

06:07in the Republican Party

06:08and, of course, also among the Democrats,

06:11that a withdrawal from NATO

06:15would not be likely in Congress.

06:17So what President Trump can instead do

06:20and is probably likely to do

06:24is to have America do less for NATO.

06:30And that would be incredibly damaging.

06:32We should remember that

06:33even though he has complained

06:36about NATO for a long time,

06:38America has remained involved

06:39and did remain involved

06:40in his first term.

06:41But now, with him being so upset

06:44about Iran

06:46and even mentioning Greenland,

06:50essentially mentioning that

06:52if you don't support us over Iran,

06:54we may return to the idea

06:56of Greenland.

06:59And so with that being the case,

07:02I think his disappointment

07:05or anger with the other NATO allies

07:07will at the very least lead

07:09to less U.S. engagement in NATO.

07:12And that is a highly regrettable thing

07:16because now, as I think nobody needs

07:20to be reminded,

07:20now is a very perilous time

07:22in international relations

07:25and it's a perilous time

07:27for every single NATO member state.

07:29And Elizabeth, when you say

07:30that would be extremely damaging,

07:33what would that look like

07:34in real terms?

07:41So, we're at the risk

07:43of engaging in hypothetical scenarios,

07:45but let's say,

07:46let's just look at

07:48what's already happening.

07:49The fact that President Trump

07:52discredits NATO

07:54on a regular basis,

07:57floats the idea

07:58of the United States

07:59leaving NATO,

08:01floats the idea

08:02of an exing Greenland.

08:03All of that emboldens Russia

08:05because what deters Russia

08:07is a strong NATO

08:08where everybody,

08:09every member

08:10is committed

08:10to collective defence.

08:12If you don't keep

08:14you as NATO

08:15and its 32 member states,

08:17if you don't keep

08:18constantly signalling that,

08:19then you are signalling

08:20the opposite to Russia,

08:23namely that NATO is weakened,

08:25that it's divided,

08:26and that provides

08:27an opening for Russia

08:28should it wish

08:29to harm

08:31one or more

08:32NATO member states.

08:33The other thing

08:34I wanted to bring up

08:35was that this isn't

08:36just about the US

08:38because other NATO members

08:40are losing trust

08:41in the US itself

08:42as a partner.

08:43Where does that

08:44leave the alliance?

08:51It's obvious

08:52for, I think,

08:53the whole world

08:53to see that

08:54the United States

08:56has been very dismissive

08:58of European countries

09:00and Canada

09:00and that has resulted

09:02in the public

09:04in European countries

09:05and Canada

09:06being,

09:08feeling rather hurt

09:10and losing faith

09:13in the United States.

09:15We have seen,

09:15for example,

09:16a Danish app

09:17called Non-USA

09:19that allows users

09:20to see

09:21what products

09:22are made

09:25by companies

09:26based in the US

09:28or made by companies

09:29that are owned

09:30by American companies.

09:31That app

09:33has become

09:33incredibly popular

09:35because Danes

09:36are losing,

09:38falling out of love

09:39with the United States

09:41and that is

09:42just

09:43such a

09:44tragedy

09:45because

09:46the transatlantic

09:47link

09:48has lasted

09:48for decades

09:49through the darkest

09:50decades

09:51of the Cold War

09:52and after that

09:54too.

09:55But that bond

09:56is under

09:57heavy strain

09:58now

09:59and voters

10:00here around

10:01Europe

10:01are saying,

10:02well,

10:02America is not

10:03what it used

10:04to be

10:04and with voters

10:07losing faith

10:08in that

10:09transatlantic

10:10bond,

10:11politicians

10:12obviously have

10:12to balance

10:14that on

10:16that on

10:16one hand

10:17with keeping

10:18President Trump

10:18happy on the

10:19other hand

10:20but it's

10:22regardless

10:23which

10:25side

10:25has

10:28more weight

10:29at any

10:29given moment

10:30the fact

10:30that politicians

10:31in European

10:32countries

10:32and Canada

10:33even have

10:34to choose

10:34between

10:35their electorate

10:36and keeping

10:36Donald Trump

10:37happy

10:37is a tragedy

10:38and weakens

10:40NATO.

10:41But Elizabeth

10:43isn't change

10:44sometimes

10:44a good thing

10:45I mean

10:45even the head

10:46of the group

10:46admits

10:47it's time

10:48for change

10:48have a listen

10:49to this

10:50this alliance

10:52is not

10:52whistling

10:53past the

10:54graveyard

10:54we are

10:55in a period

10:56of profound

10:57change

10:57in the

10:59transatlantic

10:59alliance

11:00Europe

11:00is assuming

11:01a greater

11:01and fairer

11:03share

11:03of the task

11:03of providing

11:04for its

11:05conventional

11:05defense

11:06and from

11:07that

11:07there will

11:08be no

11:08going back

11:09and nor

11:10should there

11:10be

11:11this is

11:11a move

11:12from unhealthy

11:12codependence

11:13to a

11:14transatlantic

11:15alliance

11:15grounded

11:16in true

11:16partnership

11:17so is that

11:19the solution

11:19no more

11:20codependencies

11:27Mark Rutter

11:28is

11:30caught between

11:31a rock

11:32and a hard

11:33place

11:33he has to

11:34keep the

11:35alliance

11:35together

11:35while also

11:37keeping

11:37Donald Trump

11:38happy

11:38so that's

11:39when he

11:40speaks

11:40that is

11:41the dilemma

11:42or the

11:42conflict

11:43that his

11:43words

11:44reflect

11:45it is

11:46clear that

11:47NATO can

11:48change

11:48can evolve

11:49and so

11:49forth

11:49and we

11:50should

11:50remember

11:51that

11:51on the

11:53level of

11:54civil servants

11:55of the

11:56armed forces

11:57NATO still

11:58works extremely

11:59well

11:59but all

12:01of that

12:01is undermined

12:03by public

12:05pronouncements

12:06by leaders

12:07doubting the

12:08value of

12:09NATO

12:09and I

12:11say leaders

12:12in plural

12:13but really

12:13it is Donald

12:14Trump

12:14so what

12:16will

12:16what is

12:17already

12:17happening

12:18within

12:18NATO

12:18is that

12:19European

12:19countries

12:20are

12:20assuming

12:21more

12:21responsibility

12:22yes

12:22more

12:24senior

12:25positions

12:26within

12:26the

12:27military

12:28structure

12:28are being

12:29taken over

12:30by Europeans

12:30and that

12:31is a good

12:32thing and

12:33reflects the

12:33reality

12:35an interesting

12:36aspect to

12:37consider

12:37though

12:38is the

12:38fact that

12:38the United

12:39States

12:39has

12:40for all

12:41these years

12:42since NATO

12:43was founded

12:43enjoyed the

12:45unchallenged

12:46leadership

12:47position within

12:48NATO

12:49and for

12:51example

12:51Secure

12:52the Supreme

12:52Allied

12:53Command of

12:53Europe has

12:53always been

12:54an American

12:55now if

12:56European

12:56countries

12:57assume more

12:58responsibility

12:59that also

12:59means that

13:00America

13:01won't have

13:01that

13:03unquestioned

13:04unchallenged

13:05leadership

13:06role within

13:07NATO with

13:08essentially the

13:08United States

13:09having

13:10the strongest

13:13position

13:13the most

13:14say

13:14it will

13:16still be a

13:16very strong

13:17country but

13:18not that

13:21unchallenged

13:21leader

13:22and that

13:24is a reality

13:25the US

13:27would need to

13:27get used

13:28to and

13:29it is

13:30very not

13:32just very

13:32nice it is

13:33indispensable

13:34even if you're

13:36a major country

13:36to have a

13:37group of nations

13:38that support

13:39you not

13:40just militarily

13:41but diplomatically

13:42politically

13:43in different

13:44undertakings

13:44and that is

13:45what the

13:45United States

13:46has received

13:47through NATO

13:48if it weakens

13:49its commitment

13:50to NATO

13:51which is

13:52likely to

13:53happen and

13:54already beginning

13:54to happen

13:55then that

13:56support is

13:57likely to

13:58weaken too

13:59Trump's fury

14:00with NATO

14:01allies is

14:02binding them

14:03together against

14:04him

14:04let's have a

14:06listen to this

14:07soundbite

14:07Germany is

14:08NATO's

14:08largest

14:09defense

14:09spender

14:10here in

14:10Europe

14:11here's the

14:12German

14:12leader

14:15we want

14:16to ensure

14:16that this

14:17war

14:17which has

14:18become a

14:18transatlantic

14:19stress test

14:20does not

14:21place any

14:21further strain

14:22on relations

14:23between the

14:23United States

14:24and its

14:25European

14:25NATO

14:26partners

14:27whilst I

14:28fully understand

14:28the calls

14:29for a clear

14:29stance

14:30let me say

14:30this here

14:31and now

14:31we do not

14:32want

14:33I do not

14:33want

14:33a split

14:34in NATO

14:35NATO

14:36is a

14:36guarantor

14:37of our

14:37security

14:37including

14:39and above

14:39all in

14:40Europe

14:40we must

14:41continue

14:41to keep

14:42a cool

14:42head

14:45and let's

14:46listen to

14:46what Trump

14:47had to say

14:48a few days

14:48ago

14:50when I

14:50heard the

14:51head of

14:51Germany

14:52say

14:52this is

14:54not our

14:54war

14:56about

14:56Iran

14:57I said

14:58well

14:59Ukraine's

14:59not our

15:00war

15:00we helped

15:00but Ukraine's

15:01not our

15:02I thought

15:02it was a

15:02very

15:03inappropriate

15:03statement

15:04to make

15:04so

15:05Merz

15:05just said

15:06cool

15:07heads

15:08but he

15:09and other

15:10NATO

15:10allies

15:11clearly

15:11angered

15:12Trump

15:12by not

15:12supporting

15:13his war

15:14against

15:14Iran

15:15where does

15:16that leave

15:16us

15:21in a

15:22very

15:22difficult

15:23place

15:24Trump

15:27confuses

15:27two

15:28different

15:29kinds

15:29of war

15:30Ukraine

15:31was invaded

15:32under the

15:32United Nations

15:33charter

15:34other

15:35UN member

15:36states

15:36have the

15:37responsibility

15:37to support

15:38Ukraine

15:39it has

15:40nothing to

15:41do with

15:41NATO

15:42now NATO

15:42has stepped

15:43in and

15:44been part

15:45of that

15:45group

15:46supporting

15:47Ukraine

15:48but it

15:48has nothing

15:48to do

15:49with

15:49NATO

15:49as such

15:50because

15:51Ukraine

15:51is not

15:52a member

15:52of NATO

15:52and on

15:53that note

15:54it is

15:54regrettable

15:55that so

15:56many

15:56countries

15:57around the

15:57world

15:58have

15:58declined

15:59or

16:00refrained

16:00from

16:01supporting

16:02Ukraine

16:02it is

16:03their

16:03obligation

16:03under

16:04the

16:04United

16:04Nations

16:04charter

16:05which

16:05they

16:06have

16:06conveniently

16:07forgotten

16:07or

16:09ignored

16:10then

16:11when it

16:11comes

16:11to

16:12Iran

16:12it

16:13is

16:13a

16:13war

16:13of

16:13aggression

16:14how

16:14can

16:14NATO

16:15member

16:15states

16:17or how

16:17can

16:18NATO

16:18which is

16:18a

16:19defensive

16:19alliance

16:20support

16:21a war

16:22of aggression

16:23it

16:23doesn't

16:24work

16:24and not

16:25only is

16:25NATO

16:25a

16:26defensive

16:26alliance

16:26it's

16:27an

16:28alliance

16:28that

16:28defends

16:29its

16:29member

16:29states

16:29against

16:30aggression

16:31from

16:31other

16:31countries

16:32so

16:32but

16:34all of

16:34this

16:35has

16:35been

16:35explained

16:35to

16:36Donald

16:36Trump

16:36he

16:40chooses

16:41not

16:42to

16:42accept

16:43that

16:43state

16:44of

16:44affairs

16:44and

16:45I

16:46don't

16:46think

16:47anybody

16:47can

16:48explain

16:48it

16:48I

16:48certainly

16:49hope

16:50Mark

16:50has

16:50explained

16:51to

16:52him

16:52how

16:52NATO

16:53works

16:53but

16:55he

16:56clearly

16:57doesn't

16:58want

16:58to

17:00understand

17:01or accept

17:02how

17:03NATO

17:03is

17:03set

17:04up

17:04and

17:05if

17:06Mark

17:06can't

17:06explain

17:07it

17:07or

17:07isn't

17:07willing

17:08to

17:08explain

17:08it

17:08how

17:09is

17:09anybody

17:09else

17:09going

17:09to

17:10explain

17:10it

17:10I'm

17:11sure

17:12our

17:12viewers

17:13are

17:13thankful

17:13that

17:13you

17:13could

17:14explain

17:14it

17:15Elizabeth

17:15to

17:16be

17:16fair

17:16though

17:17at

17:17the

17:17end

17:17of

17:17the

17:17day

17:17could

17:18all

17:18this

17:18pressure

17:19from

17:19Trump

17:19create

17:20a

17:21stronger

17:21NATO

17:27I

17:28would

17:28like

17:28to

17:28hear

17:28from

17:29your

17:29viewers

17:29how

17:29it

17:29might

17:30produce

17:30a

17:30stronger

17:31NATO

17:32I

17:32think

17:33a

17:33stronger

17:33NATO

17:34is

17:35a

17:35NATO

17:35in

17:35which

17:36all

17:36member

17:37states

17:37are

17:38fully

17:38committed

17:39to

17:39the

17:39alliance

17:40and

17:40yes

17:41NATO

17:41like

17:41any

17:41other

17:42organization

17:42has

17:43various

17:44weak

17:44points

17:45but

17:45then

17:45you

17:46articulate

17:46those

17:47in

18:18growing

18:18every

18:18time

18:19you

18:19criticize

18:19the

18:20alliance

18:20in

18:20public

18:21and

18:21that

18:22is

18:22regrettable

18:22because

18:23NATO

18:23has been

18:24incredibly

18:25successful

18:25because

18:27all its

18:27member states

18:28have been

18:29committed

18:29even in

18:30countries that

18:31don't really

18:31get along

18:32like

18:32Greece and

18:33Turkey

18:34all of

18:34them

18:35have been

18:36committed

18:36they haven't

18:37always been

18:37agreed

18:37in private

18:38but in

18:39public

18:39they have

18:40buried the

18:42hatchet

18:42and been

18:43committed

18:43members of

18:44NATO

18:44so it

18:45is

18:45such

18:46it's

18:47incredibly

18:48regrettable

18:49and such

18:49a tragedy

18:49that

18:50unity

18:51is

18:51breaking

18:52now

18:52that we

18:53need it

18:53more than

18:53ever

18:55Elizabeth

18:55thank you

18:56so much

18:56for spending

18:57so much

18:57of your

18:57night

18:58with us

18:58hope to

18:59talk

18:59again

18:59soon

19:01thank

19:01you

19:03and

19:04what do

19:04you think

19:04will

19:05Trump's

19:05criticism

19:06create a

19:07stronger

19:07NATO

19:07let us

19:08know

19:08in the

19:09comments

19:09I'm

19:09Ben

19:09Fuzulin

19:10see you

19:10again

19:11soon

19:14Fuzulin

19:15Fuzulin

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