- 16 hours ago
The viral video of a Mumbai woman confronting a Maharashtra minister on Wednesday over traffic jam triggered by a political protest rally has sparked a debate on political rallies and public rights.
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00:00Okay, so let's raise the big question.
00:02Has the time come to ban political roadshows and rallies on weekdays in the heart of our cities?
00:09Can these political protests be allowed to inconvenience citizens any longer?
00:14And the right to protest, is it unconditional or is it fettered and subject to reasonable restrictions?
00:22Those are the questions we'll raise now.
00:26Okay, my first guest on this contentious issue is Dr. Kiran Bedi, the country's first woman IPS officer.
00:33Someone who's dealt with traffic among all the other issues over the years.
00:36Dr. Kiran Bedi, how do you see this right to protest?
00:39Should political parties be allowed in peak hours to do these protest rallies in the heart of a city like
00:44what happened in Mumbai?
00:45Or do you believe citizens have every right to object and say enough is enough?
00:51They have every right to object as enough is enough.
00:53Because enough is becoming enough.
00:56The roads are not for rallies like these.
00:59Roads are not for them.
01:01So therefore they should be declined.
01:03When a permission, request permission comes to the deputy commissioner or the district magistrate or the superintendent of police,
01:10they must keep the public discomfort in mind and then regret it.
01:15And instead, give them another place to go and do a rally or a protest.
01:20The police can suggest another place.
01:22And always remember, these rallies are with restrictions and permissions.
01:27And they ought not to be violated.
01:30And if they violate, they are responsible.
01:34But how is the police going to lay this red line, ma'am, when it's the government in power?
01:40For example, in Maharashtra, this was a Nari Shakti rally organized by the BJP.
01:45We've seen it in Kolkata with the Thinamul Congress doing it.
01:48Parties in power often organize dharna's protests in the heart of a city.
01:52So which police officer is going to say no?
01:55How many police officers have the spine to say no to whichever party is in power that you cannot have
01:59this dharna or roadshow in the heart of a city?
02:03Well, that's a responsibility they have taken and they have to account for.
02:08So they have to regret it.
02:09The district magistrate, the district collector and the superintendent of police, both of them.
02:16It is their duty.
02:17No, but...
02:18They cannot pass it on.
02:19They cannot say...
02:20You're saying, you know, you're saying it's a duty.
02:22Ma'am, you're saying it's a duty.
02:24But as I said, we've seen over the years, now you have religious processions one day, you have political processions
02:31the next,
02:32and all of them often go through the heart of the city, causing huge inconvenience.
02:35Can, are you saying there should be a designated area, designated time, which is the way the police should function?
02:42Surely that's already there as a standard operating protocol.
02:44I don't even need to emphasize this.
02:46So why does it happen?
02:47Why in the heart of Mumbai was there this protest?
02:52The onus is on the superintendent of police.
02:54Don't the political parties know about it?
02:56Well, that doesn't.
02:57The point is, the responsible people are the collector and the superintendent of police.
03:02They cannot be saying we were under pressure.
03:04No.
03:05Are they going to write it, saying we are permitting under pressure?
03:08This is their responsibility.
03:10Problem is that it's violation too often.
03:13Responsibility is theirs.
03:14They can make conditions.
03:16Supposing they allow, and they may be, they allow, then they put lots of regulations.
03:21They will not, they will use only one fourth of the road, or they stick on pavements, etc.
03:26They can do the restrictions.
03:28But the onus is of the superintendent.
03:30They must realize it.
03:31This is what these positions are meant for.
03:35So you're saying the onus is on the police officer or the collector, not on the political party in power.
03:40Shouldn't they be showing greater responsibility?
03:42They seem more and more entitled.
03:44They don't care what happens to a tax-paying citizen because they've already got our votes.
03:49No, permission is not by the politician.
03:52Permission is recorded in writing by the area.
03:55In fact, it's the area.
03:58Are you saying the government or political party has no responsibility at all?
04:05They will simply ask for permission, and if the police officer gets it, they don't really care what happens to
04:09a citizen.
04:10Do the politicians have a responsibility, or it's only the officers?
04:13No, they will say we were permitted.
04:16So why are you permitting them?
04:18They will get away by saying, well, we've been permitted.
04:21By the superintendent or the deputy commissioner of the district.
04:25So they will say they've been permitted.
04:26So what do you do?
04:28Why are you permitting them?
04:29Don't permit them.
04:31Don't permit them.
04:33They cannot overrule you.
04:35It's because...
04:36They can violate you.
04:37They can violate you, but they cannot overrule.
04:40Sure.
04:41So, you know, my final question, is it because everyone knows the rules, there are Supreme Court orders also in
04:47this regard,
04:48is the problem really with the fact that the police today can no longer challenge the political executive?
04:54That is the reality on the ground.
04:56They feel, particularly if the protest is organized by the party in power,
05:01if the protest is organized by a civil society group or opposition,
05:04we find that the police can crack down, or often does crack down.
05:07But when it is the party in power that organizes it, like in Mumbai, the police seems powerless.
05:13No, police is not powerless.
05:15It's choosing to be powerless when it permits wrongly.
05:19And the discomfort of the public is overlooked.
05:22Responsibility towards public discomfort, law and order, traffic maintenance is of the areas of the police and the collectors together.
05:31So, if they violate, if they are succumbing to pressure, the accountability is theirs, not anybody else's.
05:38Others are only violating if they don't permit.
05:42Okay, I'm going to leave it there.
05:44Dr. Kiran Bedi, for some plain speaking there, you're putting the entire onus in a way on the administrative machinery
05:49here.
05:50Thank you very much for joining me.
05:52You're welcome.
05:54Okay, let's widen the debate at this point.
05:56Joining me now is author and columnist and Mumbaikar Shobha Deh joins me.
06:01Also joined by Shaina N.C. of the Shiv Sena and Anish Gawande of the N.C.P. Sharad Pawar.
06:08Thank you all very much for joining us.
06:09Shobha Deh, do you empathize with the woman who stood up to the police and said,
06:14enough is enough, get out of the way, do not allow the traffic to be congested in this manner
06:20because of a political rally, the way she shouted and ranted at the police and the minister?
06:25Do you empathize with her?
06:29I completely empathize with her and she spoke on behalf of thousands of women in similar circumstances.
06:38The point is, a young mother's voice at a time like this has shaken up Mumbai, has shaken up India
06:47in a way
06:47because she spoke not just for herself, she spoke on behalf of anybody who is inconvenienced
06:54and the Mumbaikar is tested on a daily basis, their endurance is tested on a daily basis
07:00and here was this very courageous person, obviously at her wit's end
07:06and she said enough, she did not resort to abuse, she just was aggressive and she had rage
07:13and why not, I mean, when she said what she said, I am not trying to make a hero out
07:20of her
07:20but something snaps for a lot of Mumbaikers, a lot of things snap but they do not have the courage
07:27or the guts to take on a neta who has appropriated a street, a public street for heaven's sake.
07:34I mean, the public roads are not meant exclusively for the use of politicians
07:37and as she rightly pointed out, there was a maidan right next door.
07:41I also disagree with what maybe someone else said earlier about the onus not being on the political party,
07:50it's very much on the political party, taking advantage of the fact that the cops are not going to challenge
07:57whatever the political party decides, whichever route the political party wants to take
08:02for whatever the protest might be, it's all, the rule books are thrown out of the window
08:08which is why the police should have calmed the woman down and tried to bring about some order
08:15but they were kowtowing to the neta and now in retrospect the neta has a lot to say
08:22and sorry, it's unacceptable, the Mumbaiker is fed up, they're challenged all the time
08:29Mumbai does not stop for anyone, every moment in Mumbai, it makes money, it means money
08:36not makes money, it means money and why would they, why would they just keep quiet
08:41but they do because the political system being what it is, who is going to dare challenge a neta on
08:47a street
08:47I'm very glad that she did it and it wasn't her alone, there will be thousands of people
08:53who probably want to do exactly the same thing, had I been there, I would have joined her too
08:58and said enough is enough, stop it and get out of that road, go where you need to go
09:05go to a maidan and protest for all you want, leave the streets to citizens
09:09her child was waiting for her, is that not important, her rights, her right to free movement
09:15are you saying, are you saying Shobhadeh, are you saying Shobhadeh, that when Kiran Bedi says the onus is on
09:26the police
09:26to have not given permission to the rally, that's being disingenuous, that actually
09:31the police simply works under the instructions of their political masters
09:38I completely disagree with what Kiran Bedi said, no, I'm sure that she's going completely as per the rule book
09:46but it is the political party in power which can, like I said earlier, throw the rule book out of
09:53the window
09:54clearly that's what happened and that happens not just, it happens non-stop in Mumbai
09:59and the Mumbaikar, resilient and wonderful as the Mumbaikars are, there is a limit, there is a tipping point
10:09clearly this young mother reached that tipping point and she did what a lot of people would
10:14in her place would have wanted to do but would not have had the gumption
10:18she had the guts to do something which I'm sure thousands of young mothers
10:23waiting to pick up their child from school would empathize with her
10:27I'm not trying to make some kind of a hero out of her
10:31but the human principle was not respected
10:35and they took their power to take over the street
10:39for granted and went right ahead with something which is unacceptable
10:44it absolutely is unacceptable
10:46I don't care what the rules say
10:48okay, I take your point
10:49the Mumbaikar should win in these situations
10:53I take your point
10:53I share your anger because I was stuck in that same
10:59I take your point and I was stuck in that same morcha
11:02so I
11:05right
11:05I take your point
11:06I want to turn for a moment to you Shaina NC
11:11I just want to turn to Shaina NC for a moment
11:15because Shaina NC you are hearing Shobhade echoing what many people are saying today
11:19on social media across
11:20saying enough is enough
11:21that here was a protest organized by the party in power
11:25on Nari Shakti
11:27right at about 5 in the evening
11:29on a weekday
11:30through one of the most congested lanes of Mumbai
11:33in the heart of the city
11:34and it's happening across the country
11:36I mean you don't you agree that politicians have got it badly wrong
11:40this sense of entitlement that I can
11:41the street is mine
11:47I completely agree and I'm not going to dodge the question
11:50Mumbaikars being inconvenienced
11:52and for hours you have a traffic jam
11:55where she wants to get to her child or her grandmother
11:58or whatever be the case
12:00I think this kind of inconvenience is most most unfortunate
12:04what is the takeaway from this Rahul
12:06I mean Rajdeep sorry
12:08slip of the tongue
12:09but having said that
12:10what is the takeaway
12:11when you have political parties that want to agitate
12:15it could be on multiple issues
12:17and multiple issues which the public need to connect with
12:20but I think that
12:21the police taking care of all the inconvenience caused to the Mumbaikar
12:27has to be looked as a priority
12:29there are many maidans
12:30whether it's Azad maidan or areas
12:33which really do not get this kind of a traffic jam
12:37what we saw at Worli
12:38I think is not just unfortunate
12:40you've had the Mumbai police and the Worli police
12:42you know getting into a complaint
12:45and a complaint against who the organizers
12:47so it's quite an ironical situation so to say
12:50having said that
12:51there have also been a lot of people
12:54who have voiced on social media
12:56how there should be designated areas for andolans
12:59and when there is any kind of strike
13:02agitation
13:03no matter what the issue
13:04I mean of course Nari Shakti Vandan
13:06there were over 15,000 to 20,000 women
13:09all of whom wanted to show
13:11that they wanted women's reservation passed
13:14and they were not happy with what the opposition did
13:15ma'am they all came in hired buses
13:16I was there
13:17but that be the case or not
13:19madam Shaina NC
13:20that be the case or not
13:21let me tell you
13:22they all were brought in buses
13:23bus loads
13:24I saw the bus loads
13:25my point is on the program
13:27I'm glad you're
13:28ma'am
13:29I'm glad you're saying on the program
13:31that there should be rules
13:32but let me tell you
13:33you know the rule seems to be only meant for
13:36for your political rivals
13:38the rule doesn't seem to be meant
13:40for the political party in power
13:41that's my worry
13:42that all these people
13:43were brought in hired buses
13:44to do this
13:45to state some kind of dramatic
13:46theatrical protest
13:48in the heart of the city
13:49but Anish Gawande
13:50the same rule applies to the opposition
13:52you will recall the farmer protests in Delhi
13:55supported by the opposition
13:56you will recall Shaheen Baag
13:58supported by the opposition
14:00the Supreme Court
14:01in fact there said
14:01under article 19 1b
14:03that the right to peaceful assembly
14:06must be balanced
14:07against a commuter's rights
14:08cannot lead to indefinite
14:10or grave public inconvenience
14:11so when it suits you
14:13you will stage protest
14:15when it doesn't
14:16you will say that the public
14:17is being inconvenienced
14:18our political party
14:20is also being hypocritical
14:22no
14:23Rajdeep to start off with
14:24I am proud to come from a Mumbai
14:26that has been shaped
14:27by the likes of Comrade Dange
14:28that has been shaped
14:30by the likes of George Fernandes
14:31that has been shaped
14:32by the likes of Jay Prakash Narayan
14:34protest has been
14:35and will continue to be
14:36a fundamental part
14:37of how Mumbai lives and breathes
14:39but let's be honest
14:40this was not a protest
14:41this was a PR start
14:42the women's reservation bill
14:45was exposed
14:46as a BJP preservation bill
14:47and to save face
14:49the BJP had to organize rallies
14:50across the country
14:51and then Nari Shakti Janakrosh rally
14:54was met with
14:55an actual Nari Janakrosh in Mumbai
14:57so let us not fool ourselves
15:00into thinking
15:00that this was a groundswell protest
15:02that was an expression
15:03of people's agitation
15:05for women's reservation
15:06ask half the women there
15:07they didn't know
15:07why they were protesting
15:08or why they were brought there
15:09right
15:10no so are you saying
15:11that if it's a people's agitation
15:12it's all very fine
15:13no no
15:14Anish Gawande
15:15are you saying
15:15if it's a popular agitation
15:16it's all very fine
15:17if Maratha protesters
15:18come on an anti-kota stir
15:20to Mumbai
15:21that's fine
15:22is that what you are saying
15:23that who will decide that
15:25that this protest is legitimate
15:27and another is not
15:28no no not at all
15:29when the Maratha agitation happens
15:31there are multiple conversations
15:32held with the police
15:33multiple high court orders
15:34when the ASHA workers
15:36are marching to Mumbai
15:37they're being sent to Azad Maidan
15:38when there is a farmer's long march
15:41held from Nashik to Mumbai
15:42people are stopped on the roads
15:44and sent into Azad Maidan
15:45when you're protesting
15:46on air pollution
15:46FIRs are filed against you
15:48when you're protesting
15:49for RA
15:49FIRs are filed against you
15:50when you're protesting
15:51for stray dogs
15:52FIRs are filed against you
15:54what is the hypocrisy?
15:55I mean let's not equate the two
15:57I think there is a certain way
15:59in which a government in power
16:01which has the ability
16:03to organize a protest
16:04that will not inconvenience
16:05the people of Mumbai
16:06has a much greater responsibility
16:08than those who are
16:10being vilified
16:11who are being sort of
16:13targeted
16:14and who are facing
16:15multiple forms of persecution
16:17for coming out onto the streets
16:18so we have to acknowledge this
16:20for what it is
16:21this is a complete
16:22sort of exposure
16:24or expose
16:25of the hypocrisy
16:26of the BJP
16:26some people are allowed
16:28to protest
16:28the government is allowed
16:30to protest
16:30but citizens are not
16:31allowed to protest
16:34you know
16:35China NC
16:36it's interesting
16:37before I come to Shobhadeh
16:38for a concluding remark
16:39I want to ask you
16:40I mean the government
16:41who is it protesting
16:42in Mumbai
16:43you are in power
16:44and you are taking
16:46to the streets
16:46to protest
16:47against what happened
16:48in Delhi
16:49in parliament
16:49I mean it's absurd
16:52there's an element
16:53of absurdity
16:58well I am not
16:59the spokesperson
16:59of the BJP
17:00so you may
17:01want to ask them
17:02that question
17:03what the Jana
17:03Krosh Murja
17:04was
17:05they are your allies
17:05but I can tell you
17:07as a woman
17:07I too wanted
17:08as a woman
17:10as a woman
17:11Nari Shakti Vandan
17:12was a big
17:13big issue
17:14and we were all
17:15disappointed
17:15across the board
17:17now you talk about
17:18agitations
17:19I only have
17:20a limited point
17:21now if the police
17:22feels that the numbers
17:23are going to go
17:24out of hand
17:24or it's going
17:25to be inconvenience
17:26or it's going
17:27to be traffic
17:27there are many
17:28places where you
17:29can agitate in Mumbai
17:30it could be
17:31an Azad Maidan
17:31it could be
17:32there's so many
17:33options and there's
17:34so many options
17:35where you can
17:36continue to have
17:37the agitation
17:37and have a section
17:39which is cordoned
17:39off just for
17:40vehicular movement
17:41I just feel
17:43it is very
17:43unfortunate if
17:44Mumbaikers
17:45who are part
17:46of our
17:47forget treating
17:48anybody as a
17:49vote bind
17:49but even as
17:50citizens
17:50inconvenience
17:51today it could
17:52be a health
17:52hazard
17:53it could be
17:54fire
17:54it could be
17:55anything
17:55so the
17:56takeaway from
17:56this entire
17:57agitation
17:58and the outrage
17:59which I feel
18:00was rightly so
18:01is that we
18:02have to adhere
18:03to all the
18:03guidelines
18:04we cannot have
18:04Verli police
18:05station
18:06then see now
18:07we are going
18:07to look at
18:07the CCTV
18:08footage
18:08and we are
18:09going to
18:09find out
18:09what language
18:10was used
18:11and what she
18:11said etc
18:12those are
18:13excuses
18:14because in
18:14that outrage
18:15if your child
18:16is stuck
18:17somewhere
18:17any mother
18:18would be
18:19outraged
18:19and that
18:20could take
18:20you to
18:21say what
18:22she chose
18:23to say
18:23which I
18:24may not
18:24have
18:24but that
18:25being an
18:25argument
18:26but for
18:26future Rajdeep
18:27the political
18:29parties will
18:29agitate
18:30there will be
18:31propaganda
18:32there will be
18:33people may choose
18:34to view it as
18:35propaganda
18:35somebody may say
18:36no it is an
18:37agitation and
18:38it is our right
18:39to express what
18:40our opinion is
18:41it could be
18:41opposition
18:42it could be
18:42the parties
18:43in power
18:43but for the
18:44administration
18:45to ensure
18:46that political
18:47parties adhere
18:48to all kinds
18:49of timelines
18:50noise pollution
18:51etc
18:53inconvenience
18:53to individuals
18:54and citizens
18:55alike
18:56there need to
18:57be stronger
18:57rules put in
18:59place
18:59and not to
19:00say we look
19:01at CCTV footage
19:02and then decipher
19:03yeah well the
19:04irony is the
19:04police often
19:05responds to
19:06their political
19:06masters which
19:07brings me
19:07Shobha
19:08to a concluding
19:09remark from
19:09you I've seen
19:10in this country
19:11ambulances being
19:12stuck in the
19:13middle of a
19:13morcha or a
19:14middle of a
19:14political road
19:15show during
19:16elections
19:16ambulances are
19:17often stuck
19:18I mean what
19:19kind of society
19:20have we become
19:21and the fear
19:22is one day it's
19:23a religious
19:24procession next
19:24day is a
19:25political procession
19:26and the police
19:27seemingly seems
19:28powerless do you
19:29believe any of
19:29this will actually
19:30change that we
19:31are so caught up
19:32in this VVIP
19:33culture or a fear
19:35of those in
19:35power that the
19:36police seem
19:37powerless helpless
19:38you think it
19:39will change
19:42no I hate to
19:43no Rajdeep I
19:44hate to accept
19:45defeat as a
19:47feisty
19:48Mumbaiker and
19:49someone who
19:49cares about the
19:50city I am not
19:51prepared to
19:52surrender the
19:53city to any
19:54political party
19:55so it doesn't
19:56matter we have
19:57to have the
19:58momentum
19:59ourselves as
20:00Mumbaikers and
20:01protest against
20:02these kind of
20:02protests this is a
20:04meaningless kind
20:05of act and
20:07yes I don't know
20:08about you know
20:09political opinions
20:10on this being
20:11whether or not
20:12it was propagandist
20:13it certainly
20:13appears like that
20:14to citizens and
20:16like Anish said
20:17that there were
20:17women who were
20:18brought in trucks
20:19hired crowds
20:20nothing new
20:21Mumbai has seen
20:22this and more
20:23and worse but
20:25there is this is a
20:26flashpoint and if
20:28we don't recognize
20:30it for what it is
20:31and mobilize
20:32ourselves and make
20:33sure we can keep
20:35talking ad
20:36nauseam passing the
20:37buck about you
20:38know the rule book
20:38the rule book and
20:39the burly police and
20:41this administration
20:42and that administration
20:43the point is that
20:45the netas use their
20:47entitlement at the
20:48expense of citizens
20:50and that is cannot
20:52cannot be tolerated
20:53any further it's time
20:55we ourselves took
20:56charge of our city
20:58and told the netas
20:59where to get off and
21:01also make the police
21:02accountable because
21:03that accountability
21:04certainly is in our
21:05hands and if we are
21:07passive then there
21:08could be more such
21:09incidents and let's
21:11not make this lady
21:12into a vamp she was
21:13no vamp she was
21:14speaking on behalf of
21:15millions so hats off
21:17to her and I hope
21:18this is the last of
21:20such appropriation of
21:22public streets whether
21:23it's a BJP or
21:24China's party or the
21:26party Anish represents
21:27this is not a
21:28political debate it's
21:30about the rights of
21:31ordinary Mumbai cars
21:32citizens who pay taxes
21:34to make sure our city
21:36functions the way we
21:37wanted to function not
21:39at our expense but for
21:40us for our benefit
21:43okay let me leave it
21:44there I hope that we
21:45those words are loud
21:47and clear I think I most
21:49Mumbai cars will share
21:50your sentiment and we
21:51need to ensure certain
21:53rules in place enough is
21:55enough is what is being
21:56said Anish Shoba Shaina
21:58thank you very much for
21:59joining me here on my
22:01talking point thank you
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