00:07Редактор субтитров А.Семкин Корректор А.Егорова
00:31Корректор А.Кулакова
01:00Корректор А.Кулакова
01:01Корректор А.Кулакова
01:02Корректор А.Кулакова
01:03Корректор А.Кулакова
01:17Корректор А.Кулакова
01:20Корректор А.Кулакова
01:20Корректор А.Кулакова
01:29Корректор А.Кулакова
01:30Корректор А.Кулакова
01:31Корректор А.Кулакова
01:34Корректор А.Кулакова
01:34Корректор А.Кулакова
01:35Корректор А.Кулакова
01:37Корректор А.Кулакова
01:39Корректор А.Кулакова
01:39Корректор А.Кулакова
01:40Корректор А.Кулакова
01:41Корректор А.Кулакова
01:41Корректор А.Кулакова
01:55Корректор А.Кулакова
02:00over the past few weeks we've seen tapes that leaked of alleged conversations
02:05and some of them caught on tape very openly between the Hungarians and the Russians
02:09is that something that you suspected and is it just a red line has been crossed already
02:15the idea that this communication was certainly happened before and after meetings
02:20of course I have worked together with Viktor Orban in European Council
02:24and we have had many difficult situations and discussions for example
02:29concerning Finland's and Sweden's NATO membership and we know that Orban has very different view
02:34on the war in Ukraine and also for example rule of law applying rule of law in Europe
02:41He says Ukraine cannot win it. He said objectively Ukraine cannot win it.
02:44You've said Ukraine can win it. Ukraine must win it. I would say Ukraine must win it
02:49if Ukraine doesn't win the war or have an outcome on a peace negotiations
02:57that will be sustainable that would be fair for the Ukrainian citizens
03:02and that will provide security to Europe and to Ukraine in the future
03:07if we won't have that we as Europe we are under jeopardy
03:12because Russia is as we speak they are preparing themselves
03:17they're modernizing their army and they're preparing themselves to much wider fight
03:22So they're preparing for war with Europe? The rest of the continent?
03:26I wouldn't rule that out and we also need to prepare and for that we need strong Ukraine
03:31because Ukraine has the largest most functional and modern army with modern warfare experience
03:38and without Ukraine we are vulnerable. We need their lessons learned. We need their help
03:43and we need to understand that we are as dependent on Ukraine and Ukrainian capabilities
03:48that Ukraine is dependent on our help. We need their capabilities when it comes for example
03:52building drones, innovating and transforming their military capabilities
03:59we need their expertise and we need to understand how bad we need it
04:03we are now when we are building our own defense capabilities
04:07and reaching that 5% target hopefully that we have set together in NATO
04:12it also and actually even more so depends where we use that money
04:20not only how much but where we use that money
04:23if we use it on wrong direction, old fashioned, traditional models
04:28that cost a huge amount of money and not the ones that are actually used on the battlefield
04:33then we will just waste every euro that we spend
04:37And you mentioned NATO, there's been a lot of friction over the past few weeks
04:41certainly the president of the US making it very clear that he believes
04:44the Europeans have done very little in Iran
04:46and also said that NATO without the US is a paper tiger
04:50When I hear these words, this is exactly what Russia would like to hear
04:53NATO is a paper tiger and the US may consider reassessing their relationship
04:58How concerned are you because a country like yours certainly needs a strong NATO?
05:03I'm very glad and I still support our decision joining NATO
05:08I think it was the right one
05:09At the same time we have to understand and realize that NATO is a different organization now
05:14than it was when we and Sweden joined
05:17Because Trump is the president?
05:19Because of the changing relationship between US and Europe
05:23it has already changed and it is changing and this is a fact that we cannot escape
05:27and it means that we need to focus on our own game
05:30Now we are speaking European defence capabilities and European unity, European military forces
05:37and I think this is extremely necessary discussion
05:40and we should also discuss more about the European nuclear deterrence
05:46This is a discussion that I see happening already and the necessity to have it
05:51When I hear about the nuclear capabilities and deterrence and sort of extending this umbrella across Europe
05:56What that says to me is the Europeans, they are preparing for a plan B
06:00in which if there is an attack, you're not going to call the US
06:04You're going to figure out how you defend yourself and how the Europeans defend themselves together
06:09Is that what it is? Is this realization that a plan B is now needed?
06:13I would be prepared from different scenarios
06:16This is the way that the Finnish mentality works
06:19because we have such a difficult history with Russia
06:22We don't wish those things that are happening in the world now
06:25but they are facts, they are happening
06:27and we need to be prepared also for the harsher times
06:30and also when it comes to the relationship between the US and Europe
06:34we cannot only walk the path that we wish to be
06:37we have to walk the path that might be
06:39and that's why we need to be prepared
06:41and that's why we are having the discussion of the European alternatives
06:44and I think it is an important discussion
06:46but at the same time, we want the US to be a strong part of NATO
06:50we want US presence in Europe
06:52we want US nuclear deterrence to be there also in the future
06:57so I don't see these ruling themselves or each other out
07:01but we need to prepare for every scenario
07:03So you see a NATO that is still standing together collectively around Article 5
07:08in the next 5 to 10 years to come
07:10that is still the scenario that you see
07:11That is a scenario that I hope
07:13but I would also prepare every scenario out there
07:17And of course you were in office and you say
07:18we as Finnish, we have to be prepared for every scenario
07:21Have you ever thought what that could look like?
07:23To have a contingency plan for modern warfare
07:26which not necessarily means an attack on the border?
07:29I think it is extremely important to understand all across Europe
07:33that the warfare and the threats are not anymore only connected to geography
07:40With drone technology, with the use of AI, mapping out critical infrastructure extremely fast
07:47with space technologies, with all the things that is now created and will be created
07:51you cannot anymore rely that you are safe when you are farther away from the border
07:56So of course you are more in jeopardy
07:58We have that long border with Russia
08:00and we understand what kind of enemy we are dealing with
08:03what kind of neighbor we are dealing with
08:04You think of Russia as an enemy?
08:06Well, Russia is attacking European countries
08:08Yes, Russia is an enemy as we speak
08:10They are attacking European countries
08:13They are violating international law
08:16They are an enemy
08:17And I think we need to make sure that they won't win war in Ukraine
08:21but Ukraine will win and maintain as an independent country
08:24But what I was saying that we know it
08:28We know the pressure because we are near to Russia
08:31But you need to also understand in Portugal, in Spain, in French
08:35that you are not safe even though you are farther away from the border
08:38because of the new threats and because of the new technologies
08:41You can plant drones anywhere
08:43You can map out critical infrastructure with AI
08:47with the speed that you don't even understand
08:49You can use these technologies also to attack other countries
08:54So you also need to be prepared elsewhere
08:56and not troll yourself into the idea that we are safe
08:59and we don't have to do anything
09:00You said it at the beginning of our interview
09:02You are very pro-Europe
09:04You are very liberal
09:05You've said I am a feminist
09:06But you also know the international side guys
09:09The pendulum has really changed
09:11From progressive ideas to what is seen now as a global conservative movement
09:17that would argue perhaps you are too woke
09:19So how would you respond to that?
09:21And do you see that pendulum switching back?
09:23There is always a pendulum movement
09:25The most thing that I now worry is the lack of respect of international rules and laws
09:33The fact that the rules-based international order is under questioning, even threatened
09:38And that we don't want to build any more world where we work together in a civilized way
09:46But we are going the direction again where pure violence or strength dictates the outcomes
09:54And from a small country perspective like Finland
09:57That kind of future is extremely frightening
09:59Because we cannot ever have that kind of strength and power that the big players have
10:05So I worry a lot this pendulum movement that is going the direction of demolishing the international structures
10:12That we built together after the Second World War saying never again
10:16And now we are in this situation
10:18The goal is to demolish international rules
10:21Well, as we see
10:22It's a cultural battle
10:24There is this ideology again rising that made the strongest men win
10:30And we need to
10:31And we're two women
10:32We need to push back
10:34And we need to remind that there was a reason why we built those structures before
10:38And if we go to that direction we will only end up in a similar kind of situation
10:43Where we ended up for World War I, World War II
10:47It wasn't a coincidence that these structures were invented, created, built
10:53As a final question, you were in office
10:56You were a politician
10:57But you also became a sort of media sensation
11:01There was a fixation with the things that you would do
11:04The things you would wear
11:06Your looks, whether you were out and about
11:08And who you were with
11:09Was that something that had an impact on you?
11:12And how are you feeling now?
11:13Well, I think those are things that come with the job
11:17Of course, I would have wished that media focus would always be on the issues
11:22On my job, on the things that I was handling
11:25But of course, I think every politician nowadays feel more and more pressure also
11:30From the intensive, not maybe with everybody a scrutiny
11:36But the interest of personal issues, personal things, Luke's appearance
11:40And I think this is frustrating, especially to politicians
11:44Because they usually want to focus on the work and the issues
11:47Why they joined their parties and run for office in the first place
11:50Well, Sada Maren, thank you so much for joining us on Euronews
11:53Appreciate it
11:54Thank you so much for having me
11:55Thank you so much for having me
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