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00:00:16You
00:00:40I've always felt a deep kinship with trans people.
00:00:44I had gender identity confusions from early on.
00:00:49Here you see me as a kid with my mom, wearing a skirt, unhappy.
00:00:54And here I'm with my dad, going fishing, very happy.
00:01:03More than 20 years ago, I spent a lot of time in San Francisco.
00:01:09There I shot the film Gendernauts, with and about the pioneers who were on a journey through shifting identities.
00:01:19I was infatuated with their playful experimentation in what was, arguably, the Western Hemisphere's most creative city back then.
00:01:31Now I'm visiting my protagonists again.
00:01:35How do they live today?
00:01:37And how are they coping with a greatly changed world?
00:01:54Anni Sprinkel has been an inspiration for me since more than 30 years.
00:02:00She always reinvents herself.
00:02:03Anni has supported the trans movement for a long time.
00:02:07In the 80s, I had an apartment. It was kind of a laboratory for people to explore gender and sexuality.
00:02:16I had a lover, Les Nichols, who was an F2M and very much a pioneer.
00:02:23I made a video called Linda, Les, and Anni, The First Female-to-Male Transsexual Love Story.
00:02:31These days, she lives with her partner, Bess Stephens, in the south of San Francisco.
00:02:42The two weeks later, Bess Stephens, in the south of San Francisco, is great to see her as her partner.
00:03:06She's, hi, butch, butch, hi, little butch.
00:03:12Yeah.
00:03:13Oh.
00:03:18When I first met Annie, she was doing her performance art,
00:03:22but she was very well known as a sex worker and a prostitute.
00:03:25And I met her in New York and did a photo project with her.
00:03:28But then I invited her to come to my sculpture class
00:03:32with eight students at UC Santa Cruz.
00:03:34And she, I didn't tell her what to do.
00:03:36Right?
00:03:37So she decides she's going to show these eight sculpture students,
00:03:40like welders, how to have an energy orgasm.
00:03:43So she has this energy orgasm.
00:03:45These kids are like 18 years old.
00:03:47And they're just like, they had never seen anything like it.
00:03:50I didn't take my clothes off.
00:03:51No, right.
00:03:52Yeah, well, whatever.
00:03:53Anyhow, she blew their minds.
00:03:55And then after the energy orgasm, she says, OK,
00:03:58now you can ask me any question you want.
00:04:01And she passed a little hat around.
00:04:03And they could write their questions down.
00:04:05So you didn't even know who asked what question.
00:04:07And one kid wrote a question and said,
00:04:10how could you have been a sex worker?
00:04:12And Annie answered.
00:04:14And this is when I fell in love with her.
00:04:16She said, everybody needs to be touched.
00:04:38And it's just a little shack.
00:04:43It's good now that we're here.
00:04:45I'm good too.
00:04:46I haven't seen this in so long.
00:04:48It looks good, doesn't it?
00:04:50Yeah, I love it.
00:04:51Yeah.
00:04:51It's been a minute since I've seen you.
00:04:53Daddy is the patience of a saint.
00:04:55And the eye of a connoisseur.
00:04:58It is true, actually.
00:05:01Is it awkward if she's in the box?
00:05:02Yes, of course.
00:05:04I bought all my show clothes here for 38 years or something.
00:05:08Like, I bought my wigs here.
00:05:10I bought everything here.
00:05:21Come inside this house, you'll never get enough.
00:05:25Cause the second you slip inside, your temperature starts to rise.
00:05:30And you're a permanent guest in the house of love.
00:05:35You see, here's Annie's poster.
00:05:37And here's a postcard.
00:05:41This is my happy spot.
00:05:43It's gonna make me happy, too.
00:06:05Stafford has built a moving business in Oakland.
00:06:09When I first met him back then, he worked as a model, photographer, and web designer.
00:06:16Together with Jordy Jones, he also organized the Spectacular Club Confidential,
00:06:22the meeting place for San Francisco's gender benders.
00:06:32I've never felt male, and I've never felt female.
00:06:35And I don't really concern myself with gender.
00:06:38I just let people go the way they will with it.
00:06:41And if they're confused, then I let them be confused.
00:06:43And, you know, I don't really have an answer for them.
00:06:48So, are you a boy or a girl?
00:06:50Yes.
00:06:50You know?
00:06:53So, I made a conscious decision when I moved to New York.
00:06:57I was escaping kind of a bad relationship.
00:07:00And I had a lot of time to think.
00:07:03And that's when I had chest surgery.
00:07:06And then I went on full doses.
00:07:10And it just is such a nice, natural part of me.
00:07:14I like to say it's the most normal thing about me, is my transition.
00:07:37San Francisco has changed in a lot of ways.
00:07:41Well, 20 years ago, the arts were huge.
00:07:44The gay and lesbian, the queer community was huge and tight and finely woven.
00:07:51And through the whole tech boom and the taking over of San Francisco by tech companies and big money,
00:08:00they've just squashed a lot of the arts.
00:08:05San Francisco seems to just be, it's about the money now.
00:08:09And it's about gig culture, app culture.
00:08:14You don't call a taxi anymore.
00:08:16You order a Lyft or an Uber.
00:08:27I was so lucky, you know, to be surrounded by my community.
00:08:34What has changed is I'm now having to work a lot harder.
00:08:38So my social life is not just second or third.
00:08:43It comes after everything else.
00:08:44And I guess when you're young, you don't, you know, I didn't think ahead.
00:08:51Like, you're going to be 55 someday.
00:08:53You're going to need to make money because you won't be able to work your whole life.
00:08:59So that's what I'm doing now.
00:09:01I'm trying to build a business that will sustain itself.
00:09:04And social life and community, it's second.
00:09:10It seems like the apps, you know, again, Facebook seems to be my social life.
00:09:32Susan Stryker is an internationally renowned gender theorist.
00:09:38She founded the Institute for Gender Studies at the University of Arizona in Tucson.
00:09:45I feel like I have the right or the ability to exercise complete control over this flesh here.
00:09:51It's mine, you know.
00:09:52I live here, you know.
00:09:53I don't, I don't rent.
00:09:55I'm not borrowing it from someone, you know.
00:09:57It's like I didn't have to pay a damage deposit.
00:09:59It's, you know, it's mine to do with as, you know, I see fit.
00:10:03And if I, if I wreck it or ruin it somehow, then that's my responsibility.
00:10:10Nowadays, she spends a lot of time traveling to conferences and she's a visiting professor at Yale.
00:10:18When we talked 20 years ago, it's like I had finished my PhD in U.S. history at Berkeley.
00:10:26But I mean, honestly, because of the, the stigma attached to being trans and just sort of how weird people
00:10:34thought it was back in the 90s,
00:10:37I had a lot of trouble finding academic employment.
00:10:42You know, it's like for, for 15 years, I never had a job that I did not create for myself.
00:10:49And, you know, I do have some nostalgia for the 90s.
00:10:54I mean, I think everybody has nostalgia for these like, you know, peak moments in their lives.
00:11:00And I, I think queer San Francisco in the early 90s was this really, really special place.
00:11:09You know, I think people were, you know, ripping up identities and culture in this really interesting way.
00:11:16A lot of culture hacking going on.
00:11:19And it felt exciting.
00:11:27It was a scene, you know, that I think has not been as sort of romanticized or celebrated as say,
00:11:34you know, Warhol or downtown punk scene in Manhattan.
00:11:37But it was something, you know, it felt like, you know, at the time, it's like things that are happening
00:11:44here now, ways people are figuring out how to live, ways to be.
00:11:49I miss that brief cultural moment of like, you know, five years or so where I really felt like the
00:11:56gender scene here was hot, hot, hot.
00:12:00Loved being part of it, making my little contribution to it.
00:12:06But, you know, everything moves on.
00:12:21Max Wolf Valerio is a poet and writer.
00:12:25I followed Max since his first steps on his journey from female to male.
00:12:31In Gender Knots, he reads from the manuscript that later became his trans men biography, The Testosterone Files.
00:12:41For 32 years, I lived inside a woman's body.
00:12:46Although I resisted femaleness on and off throughout my life, I learned to speak the language of women to pass
00:12:53on scene among them.
00:12:54I was both part of their world and apart from it, alien and peer, feeling male inside, yet living the
00:13:01life of a woman.
00:13:03I learned a lot.
00:13:11Hey there.
00:13:11Hey there.
00:13:12How are you?
00:13:13Pretty good. How are you doing?
00:13:14I'm good.
00:13:14Yeah.
00:13:15I was wondering if you had my book in stock.
00:13:20It's called The Testosterone Files.
00:13:21Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:13:23Actually, I do.
00:13:23I think I have one left.
00:13:26Okay.
00:13:26You know.
00:13:28Yeah.
00:13:30I was wondering if you could sign it.
00:13:33Sure.
00:13:34Should be happy to do that.
00:13:35Yeah.
00:13:36But I'll get more in.
00:13:37Yeah.
00:13:38Oh, that'd be great.
00:13:39Great.
00:13:39That would be fantastic.
00:13:41Yeah.
00:13:41Yeah.
00:13:42All right.
00:13:43Sure.
00:13:47And it is really the story.
00:13:49I wrote it in the 90s.
00:13:50It's about my first five years in transition on testosterone.
00:13:56It centers around the testosterone.
00:14:00There was a lot more activity in the 90s.
00:14:02That was a really exciting time, I think, to be trans and to be doing medical transition,
00:14:07even though it was really different.
00:14:08There wasn't as much support.
00:14:10But we were pioneers, I think, in the sense of getting, changing things around that.
00:14:15Getting more, you know, getting, helping to get things like the medical clinic started.
00:14:22I have no interest in destroying or irrevocably changing the binary gender system.
00:14:33I didn't transition in order to do that.
00:14:36It was part of my own individual journey.
00:14:39For me, I think it's more related to radical individualism than to some kind of movement
00:14:45to change the way people see gender.
00:14:51As far as I'm concerned, I'm a man.
00:14:53Everybody who meets me just takes me as a man.
00:14:56I live my life as a man 24-7.
00:14:58I am a man.
00:15:00At some point, you really feel like it's happened.
00:15:03It's real.
00:15:03You've walked through that magical door.
00:15:24Sandy Stone was a professor for New Media at the University of Texas in Austin.
00:15:30In another earlier life, she was a sound engineer for, among others, Jimi Hendrix and Van Morrison.
00:15:39Her essay, The Empire Strikes Back, a post-transsexual manifesto,
00:15:44is regarded as the groundbreaking text for transgender studies.
00:15:50Today, Sandy lives in Santa Cruz and is a co-founder of K-Squid, an alternative radio station.
00:16:14This is a radio station that we have built out of the ashes of another radio station.
00:16:21We had a pile of equipment that wasn't good for anything.
00:16:24So I had to figure out, what do we need to add?
00:16:28How do I build it?
00:16:29Because we couldn't afford to buy anything.
00:16:31She's the heartbeat of the station.
00:16:34Absolutely.
00:16:36Yeah.
00:16:37Yeah.
00:16:38Yeah.
00:16:38Yeah.
00:16:44Let's go back to transition.
00:16:47Transition is a term meaning when you move from one gender to another.
00:16:53When I was in transition, I thought it was interesting to ask the question, what is my sexuality likely to
00:17:02be like later?
00:17:04And I had no idea.
00:17:05And I thought about it and I decided I didn't care.
00:17:09Since I seemed to spend a great deal of my sexual time with women, I assumed it would be similar
00:17:18later.
00:17:19But then again, there were expectations that I would naturally, after transition, I would meet a man and get married
00:17:28and settle down.
00:17:29And then I came back to Santa Cruz and became involved with a group of women that called itself, ourselves,
00:17:40the Amazon Nine.
00:17:42And the Amazon Nine was a group of women that was physically very active.
00:17:48We were mountain climbers and hikers and adventurers.
00:17:54That way of being funny and active and vital and strong.
00:18:00That way of living in the real world.
00:18:03I was captivated by that.
00:18:06I mean, I wanted to be that way.
00:18:26I have felt that the San Francisco that I knew and fell in love with had been slipping away because
00:18:33of huge infusion of Silicon Valley money and, you know, just sort of a whole new demographic of people living
00:18:39in San Francisco, people in my community being displaced.
00:18:44It's become a lot whiter and a lot wealthier.
00:18:47So many of my friends feel like they can't afford to live here anymore.
00:18:53I feel fortunate in that I feel very stably housed in the Bay Area, largely because my partner bought a
00:19:00home here more than 30 years ago.
00:19:03We own the house outright.
00:19:05It's actually very cheap for us to live here.
00:19:08But my community is moving away.
00:19:11Here we are, you know, 23 or 23, 23 years later.
00:19:17Yeah.
00:19:18Still.
00:19:19Still.
00:19:19Still.
00:19:20Still involved in everything.
00:19:21Yes, still clicking.
00:19:22And still.
00:19:23Still movie nerds.
00:19:25Yeah.
00:19:25Still liking to be out for a long hike in nature is like the favorite kind of, you know, recreation
00:19:34activity or vacation activity to do.
00:19:38Yeah.
00:19:39Still trying to keep it real politically and find ways to plug in where we can.
00:19:47Yeah.
00:19:51Have to give it a try.
00:19:57All of the new people in the neighborhood, the gentrifiers, they buy these houses which are different colors and they
00:20:05paint them.
00:20:06Well, a lot of them paint them black.
00:20:08This one is a dark gray.
00:20:10It's a little bit better.
00:20:11But they all look the same and they all have the same font for the numbers.
00:20:19It's sort of a very clean font.
00:20:21And it just, now that I've pointed it out, you'll notice them around the city.
00:20:26These black, black houses.
00:20:28I hate them.
00:20:30Are these techies?
00:20:31Yes.
00:20:32It's a tech bro modern.
00:20:33Yeah.
00:20:33I think it's a style.
00:20:35Yeah.
00:20:35No, they're definitely all bought by these people who are making these terrific sums of money.
00:20:41They're all very young and they move into the neighborhood and with no sense at all about the culture of
00:20:49the neighborhood.
00:20:49And it's like, you know, we're here and so much for the gig economy.
00:20:55Success is killing San Francisco.
00:20:58Yeah.
00:20:59Yeah.
00:21:04Burr, burr, burr, burr.
00:21:14I still love San Francisco.
00:21:17I always will.
00:21:18But she's pretty expensive now.
00:21:20Basically, the rents are too high.
00:21:23The cost of living here is insane.
00:21:25It's the groceries.
00:21:26It's the heating.
00:21:29A city can't just be for the very wealthy.
00:21:32Obviously, something is wrong.
00:21:35But it's happening all over the country in a lot of different cities.
00:21:38But here is sort of the apex, ground zero.
00:21:41San Francisco, as usual, is ahead of the curve.
00:21:47Like a lot of people, I've been squeezed out.
00:21:50I'm living in the Denver area now.
00:21:54Such a good little boy.
00:21:57Yeah, good Aussie.
00:21:59Oh, boy.
00:22:02I'm living with my parents.
00:22:04They're elderly, so I try and help them out as much as I can.
00:22:08I'm a treaty Indian, a Canadian treaty Indian on my mother's side.
00:22:13Essentially, she lost her treaty rights when she married my father.
00:22:17My father's an American.
00:22:19He was in the military.
00:22:20And so none of us kids had treaty rights.
00:22:23And at that time in Canada, if a native woman married outside,
00:22:27married a non-native, she lost her rights.
00:22:30They changed that in the 80s.
00:22:33My mother got her rights back and I got treaty rights.
00:22:37You do get some treaty money to go to school.
00:22:39I'm waiting for that bureaucratic process to play out.
00:22:44And at that point, I'll have enough money to afford living in Boulder.
00:22:49Ha ha!
00:22:51Ha ha!
00:23:22I go to University of Colorado in Boulder. I'm finishing up the degree that I started in the 70s, believe
00:23:29it or not. I attended what's called the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics. It was incredibly creative. I got
00:23:39to hang out with Gregory Corso. I met William Burroughs, go to parties where he would sit in the room.
00:23:45He was very quiet in his suit in the room. And I also studied with Allen Ginsberg.
00:24:22Even though I think those things come in.
00:24:52Radio Freeway
00:24:54Radio or Dr. Laura. Some spiritual sensation, a t-shirt slogan, a self-help book, or a talking preacher. Something
00:25:05they can hear and feel but not describe.
00:25:30In 20 years' time, I hope to still be healthy.
00:25:34I plan on writing more poetry. I'm working on a novel about identity politics, featuring the theme of identity politics.
00:25:45Hopefully I'll have a little stability. I won't be living in a tent.
00:25:50You know, because things are getting tough out there.
00:26:01I call San Francisco the clitoris of the United States. It's very tiny. We're not even a million people in
00:26:09San Francisco.
00:26:10It is surrounded by water. It's very electric. Luckily, Beth bought a house. So that makes us kind of gentrifiers
00:26:20on some level.
00:26:23You know, this was a real working class neighborhood. Now you can't afford to buy a house here, most people.
00:26:29Oh, I would never be able to afford to buy a house here.
00:26:32Yeah, even as a full professor, she couldn't do it.
00:26:39So this has been a real sanctuary for a lot of artists. We have three guest rooms, and we like
00:26:45to share our space.
00:26:46We have dinner parties. So it is kind of a Sprinkle Stevens salon. And we have a garage where we
00:26:55can do painting and photography. And we're making films. We're making eco-sexual documentary films.
00:27:16This is the forest that I worked on the longest. It's the San Bernardino National Forest that we'll be seeing
00:27:21today. And I was here for 30 years.
00:27:24The water is actually being taken from a series of wells and tunnels that Nestle has put into the mountain
00:27:29up here to get that water.
00:27:32Nestle is the company that's doing this.
00:27:34Yes, Nestle, and they're bottling it as Arrowhead Spring Water.
00:27:39They only pay, I think, $562 a year or something like that for all that water that they get. 65
00:27:45million gallons of water every.
00:27:47And then that gets split into liter bottles and then sold for a dollar and a half, making millions and
00:27:53millions and millions of dollars off of it.
00:27:55Oh, it's worse than stupid.
00:27:57I'm trying to fight that every chance I get, but it seems like it's a losing battle.
00:28:01No, we keep fighting.
00:28:02Yeah.
00:28:03I'm going to keep fighting until I'm six feet under.
00:28:05Me too.
00:28:05Me too.
00:28:31Me too.
00:28:37I teach at University of California, Santa Cruz.
00:28:41So we started the Earth Lab, and the Earth Lab stands for Environmental Art, Research, Theory, and Happenings.
00:28:49And it's really a place where Annie and I can bring visiting artists.
00:28:53We do symposiums, and we're going to do a symposium up in the Sierra Nevada this coming summer about looking
00:29:00at the forest with scientists and ritual and art and performance.
00:29:10A lot of environmental art can be very dry and boring and depressing, so the Earth Lab is a place
00:29:16we can have fun and celebrate and make environmental art with joy.
00:29:21And to try to engage these young people, they're the ones that are facing a future that's a very precarious
00:29:28future.
00:29:28And so we try to, you know, both encourage them, support them, mentor them.
00:29:35Beth?
00:29:38That's...
00:29:38Oh, yeah.
00:29:38This was when I married the sea in Venice.
00:29:43Yeah.
00:29:44What else, honey?
00:29:47This is when we married Lake Calavesi in Finland.
00:29:52In Finland.
00:29:55Oh, yeah.
00:29:56We should air these out.
00:29:58Yeah, we should.
00:29:59We should sell them.
00:30:01I was smaller then.
00:30:08There we go.
00:30:09Is that right?
00:30:10Yeah.
00:30:10Yeah.
00:30:11That's amazing.
00:30:12Oh, and there she is wearing it.
00:30:14Yeah, there's the picture of us wearing those.
00:30:22I'm very interested also in redefining what sexuality is, because I think it's become kind of a bit certain norms
00:30:30and stereotypes.
00:30:32That are not so interesting, especially if you're genderqueer or menopausal, postmenopausal, or in cancer treatments, or in prison.
00:30:42It's about a sexuality that goes beyond the body, even.
00:30:47It's about a sexuality with everything, with earth, sky, sea, connecting, and expanding our pleasure potential through our senses.
00:30:57Smell, touch, taste, sight.
00:31:00The beauty of nature can be incredibly erotic.
00:31:05And people are part of nature, so all sex is eco-sex, but it's much bigger than between humans.
00:31:28We are eco-sexuals.
00:31:31The earth is our lover.
00:31:35We collaborate with nature.
00:31:38We treat the earth with respect, affection, and sensuality.
00:31:43We are skinny deeppers, sun worshippers, and stargazers.
00:31:51We are artists, sex workers, sexologists, academics, environmental and peace activists, feminists, eco-immigrants, putos y putas.
00:32:09We talk about anthropogenic climate change, you know, the Anthropocene as this new geological era that we live in.
00:32:18And like one way of like moving past or dismantling the anthropogenic part of that, the, you know, human man
00:32:29-made part of it.
00:32:30It's like, what if we changed the human?
00:32:33You know, like, and I do see transgender as something that, that is like contesting our beliefs about what the
00:32:44body means,
00:32:45contesting the way that bodies get kind of conscripted or enrolled into societies, become parts of populations, become resources that
00:32:54states use.
00:32:55And if you're like messing up the categories, if you're changing the relationship of social categorization to biology,
00:33:04if you see, if you see trans as part of like kind of like pulling the binary gender system like
00:33:11out of your body,
00:33:12you know, like I think about that scene in The Matrix a lot, you know, from 1999,
00:33:17where the Keanu Reeves character recognizes that he's, you know, living inside this computer-generated reality.
00:33:24And there's this scene of him like, you know, kind of like pulling the, the, the apparatus out of his
00:33:31body, you know.
00:33:33Um, you know, it's like, I think transgender can be kind of like that.
00:33:36And there's this scene of your brain?
00:34:14Here in Northern California, global warming means more fires, lots and lots of fires,
00:34:22and they're burning around areas where there are power lines.
00:34:29And last year, it turned out that sparks from the power lines had actually started some of the fires.
00:34:38So PG&E decided instead of cutting back the trees around all the power lines,
00:34:45they decided to give their executive bonuses instead.
00:34:49So now what they do is when they're high winds, and when it's very dry and hot,
00:34:55they turn off the power to large parts of Northern California.
00:35:00So we're next.
00:35:02The share of citizens who believe it would be better to have a, quote,
00:35:06strong leader who does not have to, quote, bother with parliament and elections.
00:35:12The station lose power sometime over the weekend.
00:35:16It's a radio station, it's digital, and we'll be off the air for two days, perhaps,
00:35:21and then we have to get back on.
00:35:23And that process for us takes about anywhere from two to five days.
00:35:29I'm gearing up for this right now.
00:35:31I'm writing a manual, an instruction manual that the other engineers who helped me can maybe make sense out of.
00:35:42You know, it's trial by the real thing.
00:35:45We don't have any trial runs at this.
00:35:48The power goes off.
00:35:50Oh, we're in the dark.
00:35:51Now what?
00:35:52Now we have to get us.
00:35:53We wait, and then we get back on line when the power comes back.
00:35:57So that's where we are.
00:36:00Okay.
00:36:01Okay, Darcy, you're on the phone.
00:36:03Hey, Darcy.
00:36:04Hello, Darcy.
00:36:05We're making a film, and you're on the air.
00:36:08Okay, hi, everybody.
00:36:10Hi.
00:36:10Hi.
00:36:11I just want you to know that Sandy Stowe just got into a contract for Geekhaven Estates.
00:36:20What?
00:36:21Darcy is my ex-partner, and she lives in town, and we're very close, and she is also a realtor,
00:36:31and she's been helping us try to buy our own home, which we just did, apparently.
00:36:40You just did, Geekhaven?
00:36:42You are in contract, man, at this minute.
00:36:45We are in contract.
00:36:47My ass is now officially on the line.
00:36:51Oh, my God, Darcy.
00:36:54Congratulations, Sandy.
00:36:56That's what I have to say.
00:36:57Congratulations.
00:36:59Congratulations.
00:37:00Thank you very much.
00:37:03We'll talk more when I'm not in the middle of being interviewed.
00:37:08You celebrate today.
00:37:10I'll go to work.
00:37:10By the way, I'm your beloved ex.
00:37:13Your what?
00:37:14I'm your beloved ex.
00:37:16Yes.
00:37:17I'm sorry.
00:37:19I was being rather formal.
00:37:21Darcy is my beloved ex.
00:37:24Yes.
00:37:25There we go.
00:37:26It's true.
00:37:27Woo-hoo!
00:37:28Yeah!
00:37:29Yay!
00:37:30We did it!
00:37:31We did it!
00:37:31We did it!
00:37:32We did it!
00:37:33Yes.
00:37:34You don't know what a struggle this was to make this happen.
00:37:39On everybody's part, Darcy probably more than anybody, but...
00:37:45Anyway, I...
00:37:46How can I talk about this when I'm on camera?
00:37:48I...
00:37:49I...
00:37:50All right.
00:37:51Here.
00:37:52Woo-hoo!
00:37:53Ooh.
00:37:55Ooh.
00:37:56Ooh.
00:37:57Wow.
00:37:58Wow.
00:37:58Wow.
00:37:59Well, come down again.
00:38:01Okay.
00:38:02Come down here.
00:38:03Okay.
00:38:04Down here.
00:38:05Okay.
00:38:05Down here.
00:38:05Yeah.
00:38:06All right, so this is Leslie, my son-in-law.
00:38:09Hi.
00:38:10And...
00:38:11Hey, Mark.
00:38:12Yeah?
00:38:13I'm still on the phone.
00:38:14One other thing.
00:38:15There were offers.
00:38:16Say that again?
00:38:17There were offers.
00:38:18There were four offers.
00:38:19Woo!
00:38:20I am a single 80-year-old woman who will do nothing but sit in the corner of your house
00:38:26and take care of it.
00:38:27By the gracious nature, Mark.
00:38:29And I have no children and no pets.
00:38:33That's the way we got this house.
00:38:38So, I'm...
00:38:39Oh, I need to really...
00:38:41I'm not kidding.
00:38:42I need to let this sink in.
00:38:44Yeah.
00:38:44We're homeowners in the worst market in the world.
00:38:49Well, maybe not in the world, but the worst market in...
00:38:53No, we're now the second worst market, I think, in California.
00:39:00After San Francisco?
00:39:01San Francisco's number one.
00:39:03We're number two.
00:39:04Then I think San Diego.
00:39:07I mean, it's almost impossible for a real human being to buy a house here.
00:39:13Let's see.
00:39:14Right there.
00:39:15Let's go.
00:39:21Yes.
00:39:41Great.
00:39:43my father was in a similar business he was a truck driver he was a teamster
00:39:47you know good union truck driver it must be in the blood
00:40:03the shock of going from obama to trump has been horrible and trump
00:40:12and his entire administration it is their goal to erase trans people they are one by one knocking
00:40:22down every gain we've had they are hacking away at our medical care they're hacking away at our right
00:40:31for employment they're hacking away the right to use a bathroom
00:40:46today we're moving one of my longtime clients he needs to move his entire studio so we're moving
00:40:53all of his artwork from one studio to another all of his paints all of his brushes his easels
00:41:00everything you need to be an artist we're moving it
00:41:10the other thing i like to do is i like to make friends with people who normally
00:41:15if they knew about me wouldn't be my friend and then when they're relying on me and they're just
00:41:21like stafford you're the best and blah blah blah and i'll go yeah by the way i'm trans you know
00:41:27and
00:41:27they're like what so i i educate in that way because once they know you once they like you and
00:41:34they
00:41:34see that you're you know basically just the same as them you know it's sort of sort of a little
00:41:43guerilla
00:41:43marketing for trans people so i like to call myself the ambassador of trans you know
00:42:03yeah it's the best absolutely the best yeah he'd moved all my art and uh to another place and um
00:42:11for
00:42:12storage and now he's moved everything here so yeah
00:42:38so how long is it mimi that we've been together now twenty three
00:42:46twenty three and a half years yeah yeah i remember depending on how you can depending on how we
00:42:54count you know yeah i think queer relationships often don't have the same you know what was our
00:43:01first date you know kind of landmarks very good
00:43:10no i'm very lucky likewise
00:43:15yeah that's one of the things that actually i like about being in a relationship with her is that she
00:43:21as we get older you know it's nice to be around a lot of younger people and a lot of
00:43:27really cool
00:43:28younger people so the conference i'm actually here in san francisco to attend right now it's called
00:43:36the national women's studies association and it's the major professional organization for people who
00:43:42teach in gender studies do women's studies in recent years the conference has actually been a very good
00:43:48place to do transgender related work
00:43:56dr susan striker is the author most recently of transgender history the roots of today's revolution
00:44:02which i saw over there she's a visiting professor of women's gender and sexuality studies at yale
00:44:07university founding co-editor of the academic journal tsq transgender studies quarterly and co-director of the
00:44:14emmy-winning documentary film screaming queens the riot at compton's cafeteria we can foreground the
00:44:20immense impact that striker's work has had on scholarship between and across disciplines she is
00:44:25an archivist of trans life offering countless contributions across platforms vast and far-reaching
00:44:31she's an architect both in the conceptual crafting of concepts and the literal forming of spaces for
00:44:36trans life she is someone who has not only formed the field but moved aside to make way for
00:44:42different kinds of thinking i was out of the academy for 15 years and you know so you know props
00:44:50to all
00:44:51of y'all who are you know in the precariat i was there for a long time figuring out how
00:44:55to pay my rent by
00:44:57writing stuff that i knew about and working in the non-profit sector and learning how to be a filmmaker
00:45:02and you know making my art and doing the politics and you know just trying to live my life
00:45:08i knew that like i could not make it on my own it's like that i needed to have kinship
00:45:14networks
00:45:14intellectual networks i need i mean i lived in a you know collective household it's like and i do have
00:45:20like deep affinities for you know like anarchism and collective practices and that was life sustaining and
00:45:27rent paying and you know food buying and um you know that that um you know i wanted to create
00:45:37networks around me it's like we have to like pull ourselves up by each other's bootstraps
00:45:42kind of mentality um and so for me it's like it's it's like i think when you operate from a
00:45:47model of
00:45:48scarcity it's like you're just like you're operating from a model of scarcity it's like you do have to
00:45:53like be be generous it's like you give things away and things come back to you and i really look
00:45:59forward
00:45:59to the conversations that you have um about what it's like to be trans in the academy right now
00:46:06and where this field or subfield is going because you are the ones who are are making it
00:46:31what are the politics of trans studies i think understanding the way that trans
00:46:38issues get framed in this much bigger struggle over things like you know the form of government
00:46:45and whether or not you know a right-wing movement captures the state apparatus and how it demonizes
00:46:51minority populations or foreigners or those people who are not really citizens of the nation
00:46:59i think unpacking how trans plays into that much bigger story is vital it's like it's vital not just
00:47:07for trans people but it's vital for understanding you know some of the really scary dimensions of
00:47:15global geopolitics right now
00:47:37global geopolitics right now
00:47:44my jobs are in the bay area every second i can get away i come to the desert
00:48:00when i'm headed to the desert there's a set of mountains and every time i pass through them
00:48:07i relax and it's like a filter between the rest and the desert i just feel like that's gonna be
00:48:17my home
00:48:18the vast expanses where there's no footsteps there's no assault of sound and there's no neighbors for miles
00:48:32it's just space space to think and space to feel unassaulted
00:48:54when i first came out i thought people are crazy here there's no way
00:48:59no way i would ever live in this heat and but the more i came out and the more i
00:49:04met the people and
00:49:05the more i figured out oh you can be very comfortable you can carry your ice water
00:49:09you can you know stay inside when it's too hot and i realized you can live here without being rich
00:49:33and you can buy land very cheaply out here so i'm hoping
00:49:37that i can get people together to buy some land and build small houses do co-housing so that as
00:49:44we get
00:49:44older we take care of each other and i think it can be done very economically and as long as
00:49:51nobody has
00:49:52horrible medical conditions i think you know we can take care of each other really nicely out here
00:49:59into our 90s you know why not
00:50:05there's a well on the property you have to dig down about 500 feet and the water is extremely bad
00:50:14so if you want to drink the water you have to put a whole house filter
00:50:19and then the water is better than 99 of the drinking water
00:50:24in the country once you have a well you never pay for water again so if you think about what
00:50:31water
00:50:32bills are you know it can be a hundred dollars a month twelve hundred dollars a year so you know
00:50:38it pays for itself over time but in general the area is so dry i keep wondering how it's possible
00:50:46that
00:50:46there is so much water running there's big aquifers underneath underneath the ground here different
00:50:53aquifers really far down our water comes out steaming hot and we have a tank so it cools down but
00:51:01you
00:51:02never get truly you can't take a cold shower you can take a warm shower and that's it
00:51:07you can't take a cold shower you can't take a cold shower you can't take a cold shower you can't
00:51:15take a cold shower
00:51:15online i met this amazing person i had no idea what their gender was because they signed
00:51:25themselves cindy which doesn't immediately suggest anything so i this person was writing to a mailing list
00:51:36i was on for uh the technological implications of virtual community and how to build um more
00:51:48socially productive and creative and emergent uh virtual communities through software you know
00:51:57through how we wrote the code the very beginning of the idea that code creates community
00:52:05code creates community so we were doing that it's a very high calling maybe crazy but we were doing it
00:52:13and in the middle of all this on the mailing list this person posts a brilliant paragraph on
00:52:23particle physics and then the anthropology of particle physics and how this relates to computer code and
00:52:30logic structures and community and virtual reality and all wrapped up in this lovely little package
00:52:39and my eyes are bugging out like malaga grapes i'm looking at the screen going oh my god so i
00:52:47post an
00:52:48answer i say that's quite a thing you just said who are you nothing happens a day or two go
00:52:57by and
00:52:58nothing happens and then i get an email that says thank you
00:53:07and then simultaneously with that note there's this beautiful post on that list again another paragraph that
00:53:17goes in three completely different directions and i'm going oh who is this
00:53:25i still don't know what it is who it is if it's a robot um and i write back channel
00:53:33again i say
00:53:34you know that was really an amazing two posts you did who the hell are you a day goes by
00:53:43nothing
00:53:44and then i get a text back that says just another humble bit pusher ma'am
00:53:54so we started a communication but we're both geeks we're both shy and we're both fresh from relationships
00:54:05that ended in really bloody you know terrible ways and neither one of us wants really any kind of
00:54:13relationship but there's a strong pull so we talk and then we decide that instead of meeting the best
00:54:22way to meet would be to meet online i was very busy so cindy who had more time wrote what
00:54:30we
00:54:30called a move for two which was a virtual environment that we could live in and in the bedroom we
00:54:37we
00:54:37actually slept in the same bed but we had a no sex rule because you could have virtual sex but
00:54:43we didn't
00:54:44want that so we would get up in the morning we would go to our virtual workrooms and then and
00:54:51that
00:54:51was represented as a little window in the right hand upper corner of our computer screens and whatever
00:54:59we did went on in there and so every once in a while while i'm working in my real room
00:55:06my physical room
00:55:07simby would tiptoe in to my virtual room and look over my virtual shoulder to see what i was doing
00:55:16and then sometimes he'd kiss me on the neck and go back to his workroom and we did this for
00:55:23one full
00:55:24year and at the end of that year we each independently said this is so sweet it it feels so
00:55:36right for us
00:55:37to be doing this are we going to die without actually knowing if there's a physical component
00:56:01i said if we're really going to try this you have to come here so simby said okay and a
00:56:09few weeks later
00:56:10he flew down i picked him up at the airport we drove to my house he went and sat on
00:56:17the far end of
00:56:18the couch i hid behind the chair physically behind the easy chair and in that way we talked to each
00:56:26other for probably an hour and after about an hour i remember coming out from behind the chair and
00:56:36sitting on the far end of the couch and we must have talked that way for another half hour or
00:56:45so and
00:56:45we began moving toward each other on the couch and after about another hour we were sitting next to each
00:56:54other and as strange as this may sound eventually the two geeks wound up kissing each other and we
00:57:05discovered that there was chemistry between us and then this absolutely astonishing thing happened where
00:57:16where we clicked together like two pieces of a jigsaw puzzle and
00:57:26i discovered parts of myself that i had no idea existed i said to myself quite consciously remember
00:57:40i'm a theoretician of gender this is not going to happen to me accidentally or unconsciously behind
00:57:48my back or any other way and in my head i'm going you've been a lesbian separatist since you became
00:57:55a
00:57:55woman you are a theoretician of gender you know how all this stuff works and yet all of a sudden
00:58:03you're
00:58:04thinking of yourself you're thinking of yourself in relation to this other guy this geek as a heterosexual
00:58:11woman and it works it just works what the hell is going on here and i never found out this
00:58:23this is a question
00:58:24i've asked myself continually in one form or another ever since 1994 when cindy and i started our
00:58:36absolutely wonderful loving glorious relationship and it never let up we never had a moment when we
00:58:46weren't wildly in love with each other there has not been a day when something in my head hasn't gone
00:58:56why why is this happening
00:59:10i don't know
00:59:11i don't know all three
00:59:12i don't know all three
00:59:30so i was in the sex industry for a long time in pornography prostitution every kind of sex work
00:59:37people always thought that porn stars and prostitutes end tragically but i feel like i
00:59:43really came out a winner and that's largely because i met beth
00:59:54i do have enormous gratitude for having found this amazing partner and relationships are really
01:00:01great they don't have to be lovers they can be you know family friends animal companions you know
01:00:09john river says never go to bed alone at least have a cat or a dog you know
01:00:18i don't have a cat or a cat or a cat or a cat or a cat or a cat
01:00:44or something the house wants to be
01:00:45We were invited to be official documenta artists.
01:00:50They had about 150 official documenta artists from around the world.
01:00:55And it's only once every five years.
01:00:58So for me, this was, I can die now.
01:01:04I want to first start by introducing you to my partner, collaborator, Elizabeth Stevens.
01:01:12She has a Ph.D. in environmental aesthetics.
01:01:16She is an artist, an environmental activist, and a real live hillbilly girl from the mountains,
01:01:25Appalachian Mountains in West Virginia.
01:01:28And we've been together for 15 years doing art and life.
01:01:37So this is Annie Sprinkle.
01:01:39The first porn star to get a Ph.D.
01:01:42Yeah, right, huh?
01:01:44We like education.
01:01:48Annie's also been on the forefront of the sexual evolution for over four decades.
01:01:54She's an artist.
01:01:55She's a political activist.
01:01:56She is an environmentalist.
01:01:59And she's my beloved wife.
01:02:06Well, a lot of us think of the earth as a kind of mother figure, someone that will just take
01:02:12care of us.
01:02:13No matter what we do, we get forgiven.
01:02:15And we can suck from her to it forever and ever.
01:02:19And she will just continually be our mother.
01:02:22But, you know, the earth is in menopause now, I would think.
01:02:28And we've been really hard on her.
01:02:31And so we have tried to think of other ways of imagining the earth.
01:02:38Actually, we know that the earth is not innately male or female.
01:02:45I mean, the earth is probably more transsexual than anything else.
01:02:49And in thinking about, you know, the sort of transsexuality or the non-binary way that the earth is,
01:02:55we've come up with a third way of thinking about the earth.
01:02:58And that is earth as lover.
01:03:13This is going to be one of the traits of climate change in the coming years.
01:03:17There's going to be mass migration because there's going to be drought in some places
01:03:21and the oceans rising in other places.
01:03:24So we need to take care of this precious resource as well as we can.
01:03:40What is the biggest environmental pollutant of all?
01:03:45War!
01:03:46War!
01:03:47And what is war good for?
01:03:49Nothing!
01:03:51Nothing!
01:03:52So here we are standing in front of this amazing war memorial.
01:03:57This is a war memorial to three different sets of wars.
01:04:00In 1983, a plaque was put up here.
01:04:03And it was very controversial because most war monuments never acknowledge the resistors.
01:04:09And eco-sexuality aligns itself with war resistance.
01:04:14You know, bombs hurt the earth.
01:04:17And war causes horrific pollution.
01:04:20And it not only kills people, it kills all living things.
01:04:23Plants, plants, animals, grass, everything.
01:04:28You know, it's up to us to kind of remember what can happen.
01:04:32My cousin emailed me last week.
01:04:35My last living relative that survived the Holocaust and survived the concentration camp, passed away.
01:04:42And he said, we have to remember, we have to remind people what can happen when fascism really takes over.
01:04:50And it's happening in a lot of places.
01:05:04A slogan that came out of the U.S. revolution from Benjamin Franklin, where he says,
01:05:10if we don't all hang together, we're all going to hang separately.
01:05:14Progressive, radical values are, you know, very much under assault right now by a whole wave of right-wing, quasi
01:05:23-fascist, authoritarian movements.
01:05:26And that, you know, we really do need to stick together.
01:05:29And it's unfortunate when there's, you know, what gets called horizontal hostilities.
01:05:34You know, like people who are in the same position fighting with each other instead of addressing the thing that
01:05:39is actually attacking them.
01:05:41You know, it promotes a kind of factionalization, you know.
01:05:44It makes identity the ground where we struggle with each other over it rather than sort of struggling against the
01:05:53system that, like, so divides and fractionalizes and fragments us.
01:05:59We have to shift.
01:06:01We have to move.
01:06:02We have to kind of try to, you know, outrun or outflank the things that are being deployed against us.
01:06:10You know, we have to be, yeah, agile, smart, find ways to be imperceptible, to not be seen, you know,
01:06:22to, like, appear in ways that are productive or disruptive.
01:06:36And we have to say we've been really lucky, very privileged to be artists on the level that we're working
01:06:45now.
01:06:45To be white artists.
01:06:46It's very a privilege.
01:06:49A lot of people are just trying to survive.
01:06:51A lot of people I know my age that I've known for decades are really struggling.
01:06:58So I know that we're all going to die.
01:07:02I just had lung cancer removed.
01:07:05I'm very cancer prone at this point.
01:07:09So how do I spend the rest of my time?
01:07:25In November of 2016, my husband, my partner, my soulmate died.
01:07:36We knew it was going to happen, but we thought it would happen six months later, so it was something
01:07:43of a surprise.
01:07:44And then I went completely off the air.
01:07:49My, essentially, I pressed the stop button on my life.
01:07:53And I haven't been on the road since then.
01:07:57I haven't done anything until I retreated into a cave for about two years.
01:08:17I was very angry.
01:08:19I pushed a lot of my family away.
01:08:22And I bit them, if you will.
01:08:24Well, it took a long time to negotiate that for me to get over that stage and let people in
01:08:33to help.
01:08:52You know, I spent a couple of years like a little animal in a big tank of water with slippery
01:08:58sides going.
01:09:01And keeping my head just above the water.
01:09:05And then eventually I got my claws on the edge and pulled up and breathed for a while.
01:09:39I got my heart on the edge and out of the road.
01:09:42nuclear family group. Here's me and my husband, Cindy, who recently died.
01:09:51I was, before Cindy, I was married to Darcy, with whom, with Darcy and I had
01:09:58Tani, with sperm from Larry, who is married to Tom, who's, after Darcy and I broke up,
01:10:08Darcy married Sharon, and Darcy and Sharon had the twins Bodie and Mackenzie with sperm from Tom
01:10:18and with a donated egg from an egg donor in Arkansas. And then Tani, with a person who is
01:10:28not in this photograph, named Pedro, had Nio, and Tani is currently married to Leslie, who is also
01:10:39not shown in this photo. I think I got everybody. That's our little nuclear family. It's actually a
01:10:47little larger than that. There are about 15 of us. But this is a good start for you to think
01:10:54about
01:10:54for a while.
01:11:28That's a good point. It is very aesthetically appealing. Yeah, that's the problem. These
01:11:34walls look great. I'm not tempted to build. Looks all are good. Yeah. What's this here?
01:11:56We're known as, by our combined daughter, as Light Mama and Dark Mama. Can you tell why?
01:12:05You did do a rather appropriate term. Actually, my mother named us that. Do we need three years?
01:12:09Will they replace the pump? Yeah, that's about right. Here, let me put my shoes on. I'll open the door.
01:12:14They get soaked it up whether you want them to or not, and they burn out.
01:12:18There's an any light. We'll open the door. Let me just put it.
01:12:20Okay, it's fabulous. Allow us to continue to do our business because she's going on an international tour.
01:12:26And so we have a four-week escrow, and she's gone three of those weeks. This you may put in
01:12:31the reel of her snip.
01:12:32So now I'm trying to figure out how to cover her. Now my principal is here for a week, and
01:12:37then she's leaving for three weeks.
01:12:38So we're conducting business as we go. Because I have a week to button this up before she leaves.
01:12:44No, baby. Okay. Oh, do we not have electricity? No, we do not. I should have brought my cell phone.
01:12:51You can't get it, Mike?
01:12:57Yeah.
01:12:57I don't know if this is just the case. Oh. Well, it doesn't lock very well, does it?
01:13:01Oh, maybe, yeah. Maybe it just opened on sound. That would be a problem, but we do want to replace
01:13:06all those doors.
01:13:07I don't know.
01:13:11So there's two takes. One. Everybody's here is one.
01:13:14One.
01:13:39Oh, yeah.
01:13:44yeah these two were partners for a number of wonderful years i hope you are great i absolutely
01:13:52absolutely yeah the family text thread was all about what are we gonna who's gonna take
01:13:59who's got niall who's picking niall up me if i had been more attached to my parents oh dear
01:14:07i'd have like a fit every time i went to someone else's house one minor political statement
01:14:13at this point which is i get a lot of noise about how um difficult and you know impossible it
01:14:22is
01:14:22for trans people to have uh normal lives or and any kind of life with a family or anything like
01:14:31that
01:14:31and my argument is always that okay i have a counter example here's a family that leads a
01:14:39leads a rather happy abnormal life yeah or however you want we're actually a very all-american family
01:14:47unless you look at the structure and then it's pretty wild
01:15:11this trailer over here we're hoping to fix up
01:15:15so guests can come and stay there'll be a kitchen
01:15:22in this area and sort of a great room as great a room as you can have in a trailer
01:15:28i was wondering why there is so few solar panels
01:15:33they were affordable and the government was helping people to put solar in
01:15:39but with the when the trump administration came in he killed the solar programs i think in favor of
01:15:46the oil industry and the coal industry and put tariffs on the panels that you could buy he used
01:15:53to be able to buy cheaply from countries like china and now there's high tariffs on them so it puts
01:15:58it
01:15:59out of reach for a lot of people you can't afford to put the solar in
01:16:23so back here on these shelves is all boxes of diner dishes
01:16:31and mid-century modern dishes all the way back four feet to the wall all the way up nine feet
01:16:41it seems a little hoardy but i'm very organized and i have a plan and i will sell them when
01:16:47i can't
01:16:48drive anymore i can just come pull out a box of dishes list them sell them have enough money to
01:16:55live
01:16:56on for a month so i've gotten to have a very tight little community here oddly not all of them
01:17:05from
01:17:06the lgbt community my tight buddies out here are straight guy hermits and just amazing people i think
01:17:16i've expanded acceptance of who a friend can be michael and georgine are lovely and generous and
01:17:24uh we're very generous with each other and so uh i always have a place out here
01:17:31we have a rule whoever cooks doesn't wash dishes so we sort of fight over who cooks lots of motivation
01:17:37and you know we're really far away and when stafford comes to town he'll he'll like contact us and say
01:17:45uh what do we need from trader joe's or do i need to go to costco and and you know
01:17:51we'll give
01:17:52them the list of things because you have to provision you you you have a cooler in the back
01:17:58of the car you go to town you go down the hill it's an hour and a half away yeah
01:18:02yeah yeah for
01:18:03for really there's a supermarket in town but it's just standard supermarket stuff and you know we can
01:18:10barely find ingredients for the kinds of foods that we like i mean we cook we cook rocking food we
01:18:16cook uh european food we cook japanese japanese we cook jaegerschnitzel jaegerschnitzel yeah
01:18:23and uh uh your thai your thai food thai food yeah
01:18:27and uh uh
01:18:40and uh
01:18:43and uh
01:18:48and uh
01:18:53and uh
01:18:56and uh
01:18:57and uh
01:19:04and
01:19:14and
01:19:29this is the mural outside our house i had this commissioned this for mimi's 60th birthday we
01:19:36got the prosita eyes mural project that's us in the corner that's my take on what's going on here
01:19:43it's definitely the best birthday present i've ever ever
01:19:47well done it was a good idea yeah
01:20:07you know i i do feel like um some of the changes i want to make in my working life
01:20:12just have to do
01:20:13with getting older you know the the body is not as elastic as it used to be the joints are
01:20:20a little
01:20:20achier the sleep is a little more fragile uh the pounds go on you know easier than they come off
01:20:28you know it's just like there's a as much as i enjoy kind of being in motion uh there's a
01:20:34way that
01:20:35yeah i kind of want to be a little bit more of a homebody than i've been in recent years
01:20:42i'm going to retire uh as of july 1 2020 i will be professor emerita of gender
01:20:48and women's studies at the university of arizona
01:20:51i'm happy with what i've been able to do and i'm i'm ready for a change of pace you know
01:20:56like i'm not
01:20:56ready to stop thinking or being a public intellectual or writing or making media
01:21:01uh i would actually like to have more time to do that sort of work i just feel like i
01:21:08don't have
01:21:08to have a full-time professorship at a university to support myself
01:21:32um some people settle in their identity i certainly have not
01:21:39i think i could still be anywhere in that spectrum depending upon how i'm relating to
01:21:48whoever the other person is you know identity is partly constructed in interaction
01:21:54um but i think as people grow older they grow into themselves but that means differently for
01:22:05different people some people are very happy to settle into something then they don't have to worry
01:22:12about that part of their lives anymore they can put it on automatic pilot but some people never give
01:22:20up searching they never give up adventuring or questioning that's a journey that they take all their lives
01:22:28and they are always going to be gender knots i think i'm probably one of them and i don't think
01:22:37it's volitional but i don't necessarily think that's true for everyone it's certainly true for me
01:22:50i don't think that's true for you i don't think that's true for you i don't think that's true for
01:22:57you
01:22:57annie made her bucket list and on her bucket list which is what she wants to do before she dies
01:23:03she mentioned going whale watching for her birthday we love whales we just love them we
01:23:08are whales trapped in women's bodies actually
01:23:15we live on two planets really we have the above water and the underwater so to get to see the
01:23:22underwater creatures come up and you can sometimes get so close to them you can smell their breath
01:23:27which smells like baby poop i love it it's awesome
01:23:47it's all i feel like it's on the right no hold no hold no hold no hold
01:24:11I like it.
01:24:17I know I do too.
01:24:18I love this.
01:24:35It might be interesting to be an octopus trapped in a woman's body because of that weird neurology.
01:24:42They're really smart.
01:24:45You know, your limbs would have lives of their own.
01:24:48You'd wake up to find them off in the other room.
01:24:52It would be the white vagina.
01:24:54Oh, this is serious in here.
01:24:57There's our whales.
01:25:03We're going to sing to it.
01:25:06How it's in a call.
01:25:08It's a mermaid siren song.
01:25:29There's a whale.
01:25:32There's a whale.
01:25:33There's a whale.
01:25:35There's a whale.
01:25:40There's a whale.
01:25:41Oh, there.
01:25:41I saw a whale.
01:25:42Over there.
01:25:43Look.
01:25:43I'll hear you.
01:25:44Hello.
01:25:47Hello.
01:25:47Hello.
01:25:52Hello.
01:25:54Oh, my God.
01:26:08Hey.
01:26:13Hey.
01:26:15Hey.
01:26:18Hey it's, hey�.
01:26:21Hey, hey, hey!
01:26:23Cold heart and we
01:26:30Venus
01:26:32Deliver me
01:26:34Love is such a shame
01:26:40Burning in water
01:26:45Drowning in flame
01:26:49Drowning in flame
01:26:51Venus
01:26:53Deliver me
01:26:56Love is such a shame
01:27:02Burning in water
01:27:07Drowning in flame
01:27:11Drowning in flame
01:27:15Drowning in flame
01:27:16Drowning in flame
01:27:18Drowning in flame
01:27:20Drowning in flame
01:27:24Drowning in flame
01:27:25Drowning in flame
01:27:26Drowning in flame
01:27:29Drowning in flame
01:27:29Drowning in flame
01:27:30Drowning in flame
01:27:35Drowning in flame
01:27:39Drowning in flame
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