00:10Hi, welcome back to Consider This. I'm Melissa Idris. Let's continue our discussion about how
00:15urban environments interact with rising temperatures. We've heard about some global
00:20strategies. Now let's look at how this plays out on the ground in Malaysia, specifically in Penang,
00:28which is home to Malaysia's first comprehensive climate adaptation program focused specifically
00:34on urban areas. Joining me now to discuss this is Dr Yogi Chalapan, who is the Senior Manager and
00:42Interim Lead of Climate Resilience at ThinkCity. Dr Yogi, thank you so much for joining me on the
00:47show today. To begin our conversation, maybe you can walk us through what the Penang Nature-Based
00:52Climate Adaptation Programme is and what it's trying to achieve. Right, thank you. Thank you,
00:58Melissa, for giving us the opportunity to talk about the ongoing program. I think it's very important.
01:06So let me briefly start by describing what this program is about. So it's called Penang Nature
01:14Climate Adaptation Programme. Also, we call it PNBCAP. So it's the shorter version of the program.
01:21So this is a Malaysian first large-scale urban climate adaptation program funded by Adaptation Fund
01:28with UN Habitat as a multilateral implementing entity. Together with ThinkCity, the Penang
01:37Island Local Council and also Department of Irrigation and Drainage as implementing partners. So there
01:45are three partners working together in this program. So the goal is to make Penang more resilient
01:51in terms of the climate, what the climate is facing in terms of the climate risk. It's more on heat,
01:57flood and also public health risk. So we are using nature-based solutions such as urban greening,
02:06flood retention system, community preparedness and also capacity building to achieve the goal.
02:16And most importantly, what I want to highlight, the approach of this program always has been a
02:22science-driven in a design and also result and impact assessment.
02:27Right. So tell me more about some of these interventions that are being implemented under
02:32this program. You mentioned building almost canopy cover and the light greening spaces.
02:38How, talk to me a little bit about some of the programs or the interventions that are being
02:43implemented on the ground? Yeah. So this program has two main component to it. One is on build project,
02:53that is infrastructure. The other one on mainly on strategy and action plan. So on build project,
03:00the infrastructure, ThinkCity is working closely with the local council, MBPP and also JPS. So we have
03:08to reduce the heat issue. We are bringing urban greening component to it in the city, mainly in Georgetown
03:17and Bayang Lepas. In terms of the stormwater management, we are working closely with JPS.
03:24And apart from that, nature-based solution is a holistic approach. So we shouldn't forget the community
03:31part of the system. So ThinkCity mainly working closely with community in terms of their preparedness,
03:41in terms of the awareness, the empowerment, and also building knowledge around this area, especially on
03:52adaptation and nature-based solution. So we also were trying to see how best we can learn with each other
04:01and share this to other government agencies, especially other local council beyond Penang.
04:10Right. So you're absolutely right. I think the community participation in any intervention is
04:16necessary to make these solutions work. So I've got two questions about that, about the community
04:21participation. First of all, how quickly can communities feel the benefits of these solutions?
04:27I mean, are these quick wins for the community? And secondly, I wonder about public perception.
04:33Do people see urban greenery, for instance, the urban greenery project that you talked about,
04:39do they see that as a climate solution? Or do they view it merely as an aesthetic feature of urban
04:47planning?
04:47Yeah. All right. For your question number one, quick wins meaning to say it's always not easy
04:58to ensure the community understand well why we are doing this. So we had a very rigorous process to
05:06make sure the community are well involved in whatever project or program that we are doing. So, for example,
05:17just recently last year, after a year of rigorous engagement with the community and also NGO CSOs,
05:25we come up with, we published two kits in terms of the heat waves and also CLERD. And we are
05:33already
05:34started doing trainings to the targeted area, especially focusing on vulnerable communities. So in this
05:42program, we are focusing on five groups, which are the women, the low income communities, the youth,
05:51not forgetting the future champions, the outdoor workers, migrant workers, we do have a lot of
05:58outdoor migrant workers, and also the elderly people. They are quite vulnerable in terms of climate
06:05impacts. And there's a lot of science paper article on how each group are impacted with climate,
06:14especially on heat. I think nowadays, heat has been a hot topic in Malaysia. So just to answer,
06:21you that. So last year itself, we already start engaging with community. This is in targeted area.
06:27So in targeted area, meaning to say we always use signs again to identify which area are impacted most
06:36in terms of heat stress and flood prune area. So we have four areas in two areas in Georgetown,
06:43two areas in Bayang Lepas. So we already started the exercise last year itself. This year is a continuation.
06:48So we are trying to engage with the same group, but also newcomers are most welcome to join as well.
06:58We also want to see, access the impact. How was the last year's training? It's very important to
07:03understand their ability to take the knowledge that we are sharing. Language is one thing that we always
07:14emphasize. It should be simple language. And here we have quite a number of ethnicity, Chinese, Malay and
07:23Indian and other races. So we ensure that the language is not a barrier for them. And also, hopefully with
07:32this
07:34ongoing training, we're able to scale more knowledge, especially in terms of preparedness
07:39in terms of heat and flood. So as simple intervention, yes, I think everybody's aware we need to cool our
07:46body
07:47when you talk about heat waves. But there's other aspect to it that they can prepare themselves.
07:54And especially women are very important. Sorry, I just want to mention as a caregiver, I think their role is
08:01quite very, very, very important to ensure they are well there as a women, well prepared and also their family
08:08members.
08:08I think they are playing a big role. On question number two on their perception, how they are taking all
08:15this.
08:16So as I said, we always ensure the knowledge, how we share the science behind of all this program.
08:25Also, very simple so that they can understand more. So one example I can actually share, we usually use thermal
08:37camera
08:37to showcase the urban heat highlight in certain places. So we do bring the thermal camera when we are doing
08:48training
08:48to show them, okay, you see where's the, you know, where's the temperature, which kind of material has a high
08:56temperature
08:57in terms of surface, surface material, right? So surface temperature in terms of material, all the buildings.
09:04And when you compare to a tree, just one tree even, you know, then you can see the difference between
09:11both materials.
09:12So we do show this kind of very simple ways so that they can understand more. And hopefully this is
09:19helpful for the community.
09:21That is brilliant. I mean, nothing better than visual representation of data to show what is actually happening.
09:28My, I think one of the biggest questions I have about nature-based solutions like this is whether in dense
09:36cities like Penang,
09:37whether there is enough space, whether there is a development pressures, you know, there's costs,
09:44all these competing priorities in a dense city like Penang. How do you make sure that there is,
09:50there is that balance of all these pressures, but an emphasis on building climate resilience in Penang?
10:00Yeah, I think one issue that we always face with also with our partners is the space.
10:08And as you know, Penang is also Georgetown is a heritage, a UNESCO site. So it's always not easy for
10:16us to identify.
10:18And we have very limited space to, to implement certain or to bring nature back to the, to the city,
10:25to cool down the city. But then, uh, I think, uh, I, I would like to take the opportunity to
10:31applaud,
10:32uh, MBPP, the Penang Island Local Council because of their commitment. So they able to, uh, go beyond,
10:40uh, even with the limitation, uh, to ensure that the program is well implemented and not only in terms of,
10:50uh, uh, bringing nature back to the city. We also see passive engineering in terms
10:55of the material itself. So I think the common example I can give you at this moment, this program
11:01under, uh, MBPP is ongoing, uh, which is, uh, they, uh, uh, greening up the entire look, uh,
11:09at Georgetown Heritage Site, especially at Fort Convalis. Uh, and they are, they are,
11:15they are using different material, uh, uh, at the pavement as well as a, as a permeable, uh,
11:22forest material and all, all those stuff. So it is, it, it helps to cool down, uh, that the city
11:28as
11:28well, not necessarily green, but when there's a limitation. So I think you, this is where you need
11:33to think creatively, innovatively, what other alternative in terms of material is available
11:40to cool down the city. So I think this process has been very successful within our partners.
11:45We always discuss, we always find, uh, alternative solutions, especially the innovative solution.
11:52I think nowadays, there's quite a number of innovative solutions, right? Uh, science-based
11:56innovative solutions. So we do, we do have this limitation, but we are trying to, uh, also
12:02see how best we can, um, uh, come up with a better solution.
12:07Dr. Yogi, thank you so much for joining us on the show and sharing some of the, um, insights
12:12into what's happening in Penang. I appreciate your time. Dr. Yogi Chalapun from ThinkCity
12:18there, wrapping up this episode of Consider This. I'm Melissa Idris, signing off for the
12:22evening. Thank you so much for watching and good night.
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