- 6 weeks ago
DX has reunited. Paul "Triple H" Levesque, Chief Content Officer of WWE & Shawn Michaels, Head of Creative for NXT, break down how they are leading WWE into the future and finding the next generation of superstars.
Category
✨
PeopleTranscript
00:00Then it's Hogan, and then it's Savage, and then it's Warrior.
00:0325 or 30 years, I might be the nicest thing you've ever said to me.
00:06Every time I look up on this monitor, I see who's the big guy.
00:21Always great to see you. Thank you for making the trek up here.
00:24I know you had to be up here for some other stuff,
00:26but coming here to the office and HQ and...
00:29Yeah, you've got a cool place to work.
00:31Yeah, we're always looking for something to do with it here,
00:36so thanks for coming up here and making this happen.
00:38My pleasure.
00:39Anytime I can sit with you for any length of time and chat.
00:43These days, yeah, it's nice to be able to do.
00:44It's like the old days.
00:45The first time that I can recall seeing you was when you were in a tag team with Regal.
00:53It was main event, right, on WTBS.
00:55Yeah, WCW, yeah.
00:56Yeah, and at that time, because I didn't know whether you were or you weren't, like, really French or not.
01:03I don't know enough to know if it's a bad accent or was it a bad accent.
01:05Yeah, it was a bad accent.
01:07Yeah, exactly.
01:07The pugnacious Frenchman, Jean-Paul Levesque.
01:25I just remember you doing the pedigree on a guy.
01:30It was an extra, and the guy almost coming, like, straight down and, like, oh, my God.
01:35Apparently, he took it really well.
01:37I mean, he wasn't hurt, but I don't know.
01:39Was that your first one, or?
01:40It's funny.
01:41When I first came in here, I had started using, like, a version of the pedigree in WCW, and then
01:48they wanted me to do—I think they had seen Dallas do the diamond cutter or something, and they wanted me
01:53to use that.
01:53So I used it for a couple of matches on TV.
01:57I didn't feel comfortable using it, and I felt like somebody else was already doing it.
02:01And I said, well, this other move that I did before, and I did the pedigree, and I remember Chief
02:05coming to me like, well, why didn't you do that the whole time?
02:07I was like, because you guys told me not to.
02:09But that kid that took the—I think his name was Champagne, was a friend of the Hardys, came in to
02:17do an extra, and he's a good hand and all that stuff.
02:20And when I went—you know, we just talked about it beforehand, doing the pedigree, and when I went to do
02:25it, he went straight up and down.
02:26And I tried my hardest to hold him up, you know, because I was like, oh, I'm pile driving, and
02:31he landed.
02:33I thought I killed him.
02:33Yeah.
02:34I was like, holy shit.
02:35And, you know, I was like, are you okay?
02:36And he said, yeah, I'm okay.
02:37When I walked back through Gorilla, everybody was staring at me like, what'd you do?
02:41Oh, my God.
02:41And I was like, he said he's fine.
02:44You know, I didn't—it's not like I threw him up there.
02:47No, yeah.
02:47He just jumped up there, and he was totally fine.
02:49So we got lucky.
02:51But for me, seeing you was, you know, the Rockers.
02:55And I know I saw you prior to WWF, WWE.
03:01I know I saw you prior to that.
03:03I just don't remember—
03:04Probably AWA, I would guess.
03:06I would think so.
03:07Probably AWA.
03:08But I remember, even at that time, thinking to myself, like, because you guys were such a good tag team.
03:15And I don't mean this as a knock to Marty, but you were so dynamically different than Marty.
03:20It was like Shawn Michaels and then Marty Jannetty for me.
03:23And when I watched it, I remember thinking, like, how long before somebody pulls him out of that and just
03:29says, we're going to run with him.
03:31Yeah.
03:31It looks like it.
03:32Oh!
03:33Wow!
03:35That's like a pretty—whoa!
03:37At that time, in the land of New York, you were a smaller guy.
03:43Right, for sure.
03:44Especially then, everybody was 300 pounds, 330 pounds.
03:47But the work and style was so dynamic, I remember just thinking then, like, man, at some point, they're going
03:53to break him out and he's going to be huge in the business just as a singles guy.
03:56I'm glad you knew.
03:57It was—
03:58At that age, I didn't have the ability to think down the road.
04:02You know, I just—
04:03There were certain guys that you saw, to me, in the business at that time that broke a mold.
04:10Mm-hmm.
04:10I remember seeing Jushin Liger for the first time and thinking, like, geez, it felt like a left turn from
04:18where the business was.
04:19You were a paradigm shift in the business to a different—maybe a smaller guy a little bit, but a more
04:26athletic, high-flying, like, more exciting style.
04:32That sometimes, when you would see that and how dynamic and fast-paced and high-flying you were, and then
04:40you would see the bigger guys that were slower and plodding, it was almost hard to go back.
04:4725 or 30 years, I'm about to be the nicest thing you've ever said to me.
04:51It's the last thing I say.
04:52I was like, yeah.
04:53It's the last thing I say nice in this.
04:54Right, for sure.
04:55I have no doubt.
04:56I'll just say, for me, the guy who watches it was Tiger Mask.
04:59Yeah.
05:00Another guy, Tiger Mask, Dynamite.
05:03Yeah.
05:04Right?
05:04Like you.
05:05Yeah.
05:05Liger.
05:06That's the guys that you could see where their work was beginning to take us to a different time, for
05:11sure.
05:11Yeah, and then I remember thinking the same thing about Kid, obviously with a completely different look, but that was
05:15another level of just doing crazy non-stop.
05:18Yeah, and how fast he was moving.
05:20Yeah, crazy non-stop flying stuff.
05:23And then I think about kids today, I just had this conversation with Javon the other day, to say, right
05:28now you're the kid doing the shit that nobody else has ever seen before.
05:33Get Mousy!
05:35OG!
05:35Connor!
05:36That was Javon Evans going to do here.
05:38Frog splash for the pod!
05:40Focus on punches, kicks, focus on this other stuff, because a year from now there'll be a kid doing shit
05:46that you're like, how's he doing that?
05:48Right, and we'll all be just going like, remember when he was doing cool shit? Now he's doing the cool
05:52shit.
05:53And I said, you've got to have all that other stuff, otherwise that quickly goes by the wayside.
05:58I say it about you all the time, and I'll break my own rule here and go back to saying
06:02something nice.
06:03The fast-paced and the flying stuff is just what got you looked at.
06:06Right.
06:07All the other stuff, the fundamentals of everything else, punches, kicking, you being a pit bull, you selling so emotionally
06:14and investing people in, that's what got you over.
06:17The other stuff just made you look, and then that's the stuff that solidified you as being so good.
06:24From a training standpoint, that's why, one of the reasons I don't ever tell anybody, again, all the stuff people
06:30told me, you're going too fast, slow down.
06:33I feel like all those things will take care of themselves, for the most part, and when they make it
06:37up to the main roster,
06:38that it becomes about psychology and timing and selling and telling a story and different aspects.
06:45Also, whether it's injury, time, age, whatever.
06:52Time forces you to get there.
06:53Exactly.
06:54Look, and getting more over.
06:56Again, you realize that you don't have to do as much, so the slowing down process kind of happens.
07:00I don't have to do the second flip off the top rope because the first one they were still going
07:05crazy on, so I can just let that one be.
07:07Right.
07:08But that's interesting because, again, that's something I don't think about enough, which is that, again, there will be in
07:14a year or two, another guy coming and doing equally, if not better, cooler stuff.
07:20Has already learned his stuff and is trying to figure out what the next level that I can do to
07:26that, right?
07:26Yeah, which is exactly what I was doing back in the day is watching all the VHS tapes and then
07:32thinking about, okay, how can I add on to this?
07:35Yeah, and that's what progresses the business.
07:38I don't buy into the old-timer, well, the business has changed or, yeah, it changes.
07:44Everything changes.
07:45Right.
07:46The pace of it changes.
07:47The pace of the NFL, NBA, all that stuff, the game changes.
07:51It is what fans want in that time, but the fundamentals will never change as long as you have the
07:57fundamentals down and you can then begin your own process, as you said, of slowing down and pulling back and
08:04learning that, oh, wait, the bigger reaction I actually get, the more sustained reaction is the selling.
08:10Right.
08:10And the emotions and the theater of it.
08:13Right.
08:13You can only get them to go like, oh, shit, so many times.
08:17Never seen that before.
08:19Oh, I've seen that before.
08:20Right.
08:21And that's, again, I've mentioned that to people, and Javon's one of them is just like, that's what gets you
08:25noticed, that's what gets you in the door.
08:27Yeah.
08:27But then you're going to have to build on that from that point forward.
08:29He came to me, I talked to him a few weeks ago about like changing up his punches and focusing
08:35on that because he's got the other stuff down.
08:36I said, so you don't need to learn a bigger flippy thing.
08:39Right.
08:39Like, you got that.
08:41Go learn how to throw a punch better than everybody else in this roster.
08:45Sure.
08:45And then he came to me this past TV and was like, you know, yes, he came up.
08:50Boss man, I need you to watch my punches tonight.
08:52Yeah.
08:53Like, he immediately came back through the curtain, walked straight over.
08:56It's like, did you see him?
08:57Yeah.
08:58Better?
08:58Getting better?
08:59You know what I mean?
08:59Like, yeah, they're getting better, dude.
09:01He's a good kid.
09:02He's no doubt.
09:03Hard work, a good kid.
09:04Like, I love him.
09:05Yeah.
09:05He's awesome.
09:06Thanks for taking him from us.
09:08Yeah.
09:09I appreciate it.
09:10That's the gig, man.
09:11That's what I understand.
09:11You make him, I steal him.
09:13That's the truth.
09:14Yeah.
09:14Now, those tryouts, it's crazy the kind of pressure and anxiety I have now with those.
09:20They're trying to find the right.
09:21Yeah.
09:22I think about Tiffany and Bronson and Lash.
09:25You want to keep that track record going.
09:26The funny thing is, is a lot of those guys, nobody remembers the, sort of like, once they
09:32graduate and they just kind of like blend into the crowd, people are like, yeah, she
09:37didn't come from NXT.
09:38Tiffany or somebody like, yeah.
09:39Yeah, she did.
09:40Yeah.
09:40Found her, then recruited her.
09:42And then, you know what I mean?
09:43Like, but you lose perspective of that over time.
09:47You lose perspective of how many people come up.
09:49It's an interesting conversation, actually, Steph was having with somebody in the Saturday
09:54Night Live world the other day and they were saying, you know, and this is all due respect
09:59to him, but it translates to our business.
10:02It was saying how incredible Lorne Michaels is.
10:04Imagine you have a successful hit television show, comedy show, and Will Ferrell is your
10:11lead character and the show's incredibly successful and then Will Ferrell leaves the
10:16show.
10:16And then it just gets successful again with other people in there.
10:19Yeah.
10:19Like in any other world that person goes away and the show ends in our world since the
10:2660s.
10:27Yeah.
10:28You know, Bruno leaves and then it's Backland and then it's Snuka and then it's they leave
10:33and then it's, you know, not all at the same time, but then it's Hogan and then it's Savage
10:38and then it's Warrior and then it's just keeps evolving and it's a testament to the creative.
10:43We come down there and rob you blind in NXT and then you just rebuild it.
10:50And, you know, for us, Cena goes away and AJ Styles retires and people move on and people
10:58are getting to the place where, and to me, right now is the time when it's the most evident
11:03in about how successful the system is and how much it works, right?
11:08There's this moment in time where your top stars are getting to the upper deck.
11:13Right.
11:14And before they get too far into that upper deck, you got to look at what that balance
11:18is.
11:19So in a very short period of time, we make a commitment to it.
11:22And all of a sudden, you know, when you look at just WrestleMania this year, but I look
11:28at that's just the start of it because to me, to be honest, 26 into 27 will be when all
11:34those people really bake.
11:36But when you look at this year alone, Obafemi, Trick Williams, Javon, there's so many things
11:43that you can just point out in this time where it is, yeah, as your stars of the show begin
11:49to move into different places or go away and you just put other people back in those slots
11:54and they become bigger.
11:57The show becomes bigger, the show becomes better, and people just keep engaging it.
12:00It's a fascinating process, but I don't know of anything.
12:04Saturday Night Live is the closest comp that I can think of to what we do.
12:10So as far as who's ready when, in my opinion, everybody's different.
12:15You know, I just set it to Trick the other night against the WrestleMania match and he's so
12:19excited and he was being thankful for all the positioning.
12:22And I said, look, I'm thankful that you're ready to get there.
12:26I said, so now look back on the frustration that you had of being in a time where you
12:32knew you were ready in your mind.
12:34We were screwing you over by keeping you in developmental and trying to get you.
12:39I said, but we were getting you ready for this.
12:41We believed you weren't quite ready yet and that you could benefit more, even if it was just
12:46slightly from baking a little bit longer.
12:49And that time will pass and you'll be frustrated.
12:51Almost every talent that has come from NXT to the main roster has come to me at some point and
12:55said,
12:55what am I doing?
12:57I've been here forever.
12:58Like, why haven't they moved me up already?
13:00Why is it like I'm losing my mind waiting?
13:02Like, they all do the same thing, but there's a certain point in time where you just want to be
13:08sure.
13:08No one's ever 100% ready.
13:11Right.
13:11Ever.
13:12And you move guys up when you think that they are.
13:14And sometimes a guy's still not ready, but you think, well, he's learned everything he's going to learn here.
13:20You all had made the deal with Trick.
13:23And I had mentioned that, hey, I think he still needs a bit more time.
13:29And you were right.
13:30Yeah.
13:30Yeah.
13:31Well, thanks.
13:32And I felt like, you know, he needed to go back over to the heel side.
13:37He was a really good babyface, but it was kind of going down a road to where it was getting
13:42very just focused on him being a babyface
13:47and what his opponents could do for him to help him, you know, continue to grow as a babyface and
13:55get more over and continue to have success.
13:58And I had mentioned that I feel like you need to be a heel.
14:02And because in my mind, he hadn't quite understood the benefits of what your heels do for you as a
14:12babyface.
14:13And I needed him to kind of jump on that other side to try to understand that now he was
14:18going to have to be that guy
14:20that certainly gets his stuff over and continues to do his stuff, but has to now make that other individual
14:29and to understand how much work and effort and psychology goes into that.
14:35And appreciate it.
14:36Yeah, exactly.
14:37So when somebody is doing it for you, you appreciate it.
14:40Yeah, exactly.
14:41And to understand that it's a mutual, you know, kind of agreement going out there, a business partnership that you
14:49have with the individual going out there.
14:51But he's one I would have, you know, he's one that I would have loved to have been able to,
14:54you know, certainly build a brand around.
14:56But I'm never going to, you know, keep guys from success.
15:03Yeah.
15:03You know, that's something I don't ever certainly want to do.
15:06And again, and then there's Oba, who I think was incredibly well-rounded.
15:09He's the one guy I'll say he never once, you know, complained about anything, never asked about money, dates.
15:16Yeah.
15:17Where am I going?
15:18What am I doing?
15:18That's funny.
15:19I saw an interview from his the other day, and I guess he got frustrated, I guess, because there are
15:23times that he would, you know, have finishes or sequences that he wanted to do.
15:29And then I would change them all the time.
15:31And of course, at the time doing it, you know, in my mind, I'm thinking like, you've been doing this
15:35for two years.
15:36You don't have any idea where we're going, but, and of course, and he, he recognized all that.
15:41Yeah.
15:41That's one of the things he said in the interview is that Sean knows where we're going and what we're
15:44doing and where it's all going to go.
15:45But it frustrated him a little bit at the time.
15:48Point being is that though, he never once ever showed that kind of stuff.
15:51He's just been, you know, he's a, I see, I'll say there's a consummate professional and I don't know, just
15:57a-
15:57Mature beyond his years.
15:59Absolutely.
16:00Yeah.
16:00Yeah.
16:00But there's such a pro and, and yeah, so far been easy to work with and just a sponge, like
16:06even the little things, like I see him pick them up and see him make changes without anybody telling him.
16:13It's tough in the beginning because you're trying to find that ground between being a character, being something that's believable,
16:23being a version of them, but a big version of them.
16:26You know, now in this role, because the, the, the many sort of changes or the evolutions of what we
16:34do here, sometimes it'll be more, uh, we might be in a time or an era that it's more character
16:43based.
16:43And then there's, we might slowly shift to a time where it's a little bit more reality based, um, and
16:51trying to find that balance between the two.
16:55Cause I guess that's the thing.
16:56I never know where the business is going to go.
16:58How is it going to change how you guys up here, maybe seeing it and how you want to forge
17:04forward and making sure that we're kind of in line with that.
17:07The overwhelming makeup of NXT is right. It's like harder core fans that love pro wrestling. So they'll buy a
17:14pro wrestling character.
17:15Right.
17:17That maybe when you get to raw or SmackDown, they're fans of the product and they're into it deeply, but
17:23they're much more casual fans where they might be like, that character is kind of hokey.
17:28I'm not really buying that or kind of goofy or something. It's a very pro wrestling trope.
17:34If you have talent that are more character based, you know, it comes down to the time.
17:39Yeah.
17:40What are people buying? If, if, if somebody is really good at the character stuff, they'll buy it.
17:44Right.
17:45Sometimes you're not, you need to go more reality based. I think it just depends on what.
17:49And also for us, from an NXT standpoint, a lot of times we have these athletes that's coming, even the
17:56words character.
17:57Yeah.
17:58Having to, you know, define that to them and help them understand that we're not talking about a garbage man
18:06or, you know, or a clown.
18:08We're just talking about a part of your personality or something that is of interest to you.
18:15Yeah.
18:16And that's, again, so that's sort of a process that we go through as they come in to just at
18:22least have them thinking about us.
18:24How do they see themselves being portrayed if they were going to make it on NXT?
18:32Again, we have, you know, people that, you know, from the creative team that will spend time with these individuals.
18:37They'll share their interests, share, share different aspects of their personality.
18:41Find out if they've put a lot of time and thought and effort into it.
18:45And if not trying to get them at least starting, starting to do that.
18:50As you know, it's always so hard.
18:54And one thing, I guess I was always so appreciative of how I got to come about being sort of
19:01HBK, the heartbreak kid.
19:02I was, you know, an individual that started to go singles.
19:05And I can remember at that time, there was still a form of creative services.
19:10And someone had drawn up, you know, this biker guy with the glasses and sort of my first original look.
19:16Yeah.
19:17But they wanted to call me the idol.
19:19First, it was going to be Shawn Michaels, the idol, but then it was just going to go straight to
19:23the idol.
19:23And that just really scared me because I didn't want to ever stop being Shawn Michaels.
19:29And I can remember asking like, geez, can I, I like the look.
19:34Can I start to at least go with that, but then try to find out what, whatever this other character
19:42is going to be.
19:43And as time sort of went on and the music, it just kind of organically came about.
19:49And then of course, Hennig mentions the heartbreak kid during color commentary one time.
19:55And then.
19:56Is that who did it?
19:56I never knew where that came from.
19:58It was Kurt Hennig.
19:58Not shocking.
19:59Yeah.
19:59No, for sure.
20:00Well, it's, it's in a Chris LeDoux song.
20:03Used to be a moonlight bandit.
20:05Used to be a heartbreak kid.
20:06When he first told me about it, I was like, yeah, it's all right.
20:09I, you picture yourself being, I don't know, tougher, more rugged.
20:14And I wasn't sure, but then I was just doing a promo one time.
20:18And all of a sudden, you know, one of those things where you don't really know what you're saying.
20:22And it just comes, comes out from that point on, it kind of stuck.
20:26And as you know, somebody who knows me in real life, you know, like I don't have that much coolness
20:32in me.
20:34Yeah.
20:34Almost zero.
20:35Yeah.
20:35Almost zero.
20:36Yeah.
20:37Yeah, exactly.
20:38For that moment in that, you know, in that place out there, I could do it.
20:43And so it just all seemed to work.
20:45Anyway, I say all that to, I mean, we try to encourage, I certainly do in NXT, them, you know,
20:53finding that as well.
20:55As in, again, give it some thought, but I don't want to rope you into something.
20:59I want you to find something that comes natural to you.
21:01It's really hard for somebody to find something that is not them and so outside of their comfort zone and
21:11make it believable.
21:12Like the amount of people that you can say did a character like that, that was sort of top shelf,
21:19you know.
21:20Right.
21:20Like Taker, where they just said, hey, you're the Undertaker, this kind of dead dude that very few people can
21:26do that.
21:27I think you could have given that gimmick to 100 people and 99 of them would have failed.
21:31One happened to be Mark Calloway and he made it one of the biggest things ever in the business, but
21:35that's so hard.
21:36I think about that back in the day, like Kamala or something like that.
21:40It would have been tough for me, I can tell you that much, you know.
21:43Kamala?
21:44Yeah, it would have been tough.
21:44Yeah, I don't.
21:45No, but I mean to be, I don't know, to be given something you just weren't sure.
21:50I don't know, I don't consider myself a great actor.
21:53Yeah.
21:53So I think that would have been challenging.
21:55When Flair came to me and said like, go in the other room, cut promos in French, you're a French
21:59guy now.
21:59And I was like, well, wait, what?
22:01Once we started to do our stuff with DX, like people talk about that to me all the time.
22:05Like, hey, who was coming up with all that stuff?
22:07It's like, nobody was coming up with it.
22:09It was just us being us.
22:11Half the shit we were saying and doing was shit we were saying and doing in the car to some
22:15degree.
22:15And, you know, it took off because it was so real.
22:19It was one of the things I think fans, I know certainly for me, I think, but I think fans
22:24love the most about pro wrestling in general is this fantasy world where anything can happen.
22:31So you have moments of drama.
22:33You have moments of like, you're angry because somebody beat up your favorite or whatever.
22:40You have moments of intense action and excitement and all that other stuff.
22:45And then you just have light moments where comedy can happen and it's the most ridiculous situation, but it just
22:52works.
22:54Right.
22:54First of all, you have to have the talent to be able to execute the comedy thing.
22:58You give somebody that doesn't have comedic timing or the chops to do it a comedy skit, it's horrible.
23:06Right.
23:06It's just one of the worst things ever is watching a comedian die a terrible death.
23:10I think that's why it's always super important for characters like, you know, R-Truth, Miz, Dan Housen.
23:17Dan Housen, yeah.
23:18Even a Joe Hendry where he kind of blends the both.
23:21Right.
23:21Like in one moment he's in ring giving you intense stuff and then a minute later he's giving you some
23:26comedy stuff.
23:27It's not the most intense character of all time.
23:31People want to lose themselves in the product and have every emotion under the sun.
23:35That's one of the areas where I admittedly sometimes struggle in the, I enjoy the comedy and I enjoy the
23:45high drama.
23:46I'm also into the Wild West and the dusty stuff, maybe to a fault.
23:52And I've always felt that you were way better at the cool characters.
23:59That again, it's just, you know, I honestly don't do as well.
24:01I'm fortunate that again, to have an Oba and a trick, you know, that can be cool.
24:08I'm telling the talent all the time.
24:10I don't know if it's a good thing, but I, you know, I got asked a question the other day
24:14by Ricky Saints and Joe Hendry
24:16about again, us, how did we, you know, again, the whole attitude era thing.
24:20And how did we, how did we know?
24:22How did we feel?
24:23And just trying to explain to them at the time with, with all the different, you know,
24:27Sally, Jesse, Raphael, the Springer show, Geraldo, just the time and the reality show.
24:32Just being new then.
24:34And that was just an era where you could, it was palpable that you could feel that there was this
24:38shift.
24:39Yeah.
24:40Just trying to, you know, kind of explaining that to them and like, Hey, well, do you feel anything now?
24:44And, and I said, yeah, I feel like you shouldn't do that or I'll fire you.
24:49Yeah.
24:51I said, I'm 60.
24:53Yeah.
24:54That's going to have to come from your generation.
24:57I said, if the 60 year old guy in the room is the coolest dude in here, that's not good.
25:02Right.
25:03Um, cause I, I'm, you know, I wasn't even cool when I was hanging around you guys, at least played
25:08it off for a little bit, but they're hungry.
25:10I want to, you know, find kind of that next wave, but helping them to understand that, uh, you know,
25:16I don't know.
25:16There's, there's certain parts of you that you've got to learn to, to bring out.
25:21Um, and if it's, you know, if it's there in real life, the people will buy it.
25:26If it isn't, they're not going to buy it no matter what.
25:28But I've always, I've always felt that's one thing that you, again, you know, that you do really well.
25:32If you pigeonhole somebody and just being comical, it's hard to get them out of that.
25:36Absolutely.
25:38The perspective that you have as you age, you have to acquiesce that to them.
25:44Like, here's the point we want you to say, and here's the idea of your character, but you've got to
25:48put it in.
25:49I certainly can't write for trick, you know, to, to address it directly.
25:53Like I saw Kev make a mention of Javon and say, well, I wish they treated his character differently.
25:59Uh, it's a little too much, uh, of this for me.
26:03Somebody told me about it.
26:04I was like, it was just him.
26:05Right.
26:06You know what I mean?
26:07That isn't us telling him to, that's just who he is.
26:10Like he just, that's how he acts.
26:11That's how he talks to me backstage.
26:13That's how he is in the afternoon.
26:14And then we just kind of give him the gist of what he's going to say.
26:18And then he goes and says it and that, but that's, that's just who he is.
26:21Yeah.
26:22You know, and, and similar thing for trick.
26:25I don't even know what the fuck lemon pepper steppers are.
26:27Right.
26:28It doesn't make any sense to me.
26:30It shouldn't.
26:31Yeah.
26:31It shouldn't.
26:32I can feel it when he says it, the cool stuff.
26:35Yeah.
26:35Or for the most part, like, cause I can feel the crowd react to it or I can feel the
26:40things
26:41that are clicking for him, but I can't tell him, you know, if he runs dry on cool shit
26:46to say, he ain't getting it from me.
26:47The, the character that you put around it, the emotion that you put around it, your spin
26:52on it, all that stuff is really what makes it great.
26:56And that's the hardest part.
26:57Right.
26:59Yeah.
27:00Nick says to me all the time, name a great coach.
27:03That was a, a mega star in their sport that then became a great coach.
27:08It's really hard to do.
27:10You know, he'll say to me a lot of times, like Larry Bird was like a, the highest level
27:16of performer that then became a high level coach.
27:20But like Michael Jordan couldn't do it because Michael Jordan couldn't understand how people
27:25to just go do this and then they can't do it.
27:28He's like, I don't understand why they just don't do that.
27:30Right.
27:30Like, cause you were great.
27:32Doesn't mean you can teach it.
27:33Doesn't mean you understand it.
27:34Doesn't mean you, um, have that.
27:37So it's, it's a tough thing to do to let them go be themselves at our level, you know,
27:43because we have, we go from no experience, you know, and then moderate experience.
27:49And then, and then, and then the most terrifying is a decent amount of experience, but think
27:55they're, you know, Ruth has.
27:57Yeah.
27:59So that is the most rampant thing in the business.
28:01Right.
28:01I can see there are times when they want an ABC answer because they're a former athlete.
28:11And again, if you're like, if you step this way and get up underneath them, you know, there's
28:15a technique that you can do this to make it work.
28:18And in our business, there's not really that there's an unspoken, again, connection between
28:27you and the audience, what you're doing in the ring.
28:30Yes.
28:30You're going through your match, but you're also, you know, telling the story with your
28:36face and your body.
28:38Uh, that's very hard to explain in one, two, three, ABC kind of methodology.
28:45In a way it's a sport, but it's also like an art form.
28:48You can teach somebody the sport thing.
28:50You can teach them to get faster.
28:52You can teach them to throw further.
28:54You can teach them right.
28:55The, you can't teach them the IQ of the game.
28:59Yes.
28:59And you know, as well as I do, there's probably been more great people in our business that
29:04weren't great athletes that didn't have the best in ring skill, but had the most charisma
29:09and the most emotion and the most connection with the crowd, but weren't the greatest in
29:18ring performer of all time.
29:20Mm-hmm.
29:21Say something nice about you again.
29:22You, you were the combo of all those things.
29:25You could do the character.
29:26You could do the promos, but the in ring stuff was a plus plus plus.
29:30That's rare.
29:32Yeah.
29:32And that's the question you always get.
29:33How do you know, you know, how do you pick a superstar?
29:37How do you know?
29:38I was like, it's a question to answer.
29:40Yeah.
29:41Yeah.
29:41It's just, it's like, you can't describe it.
29:44You kind of just know it when you see it.
29:46Like Otis at one time.
29:48Yeah.
29:48Dude, I was in my office here and I remember calling Matt and saying like, who's the big
29:54bald dude?
29:55Like, I can't keep my eyes off him.
29:56And he told me who he was and I'm like, how's he doing?
29:58He's like, eh.
29:59I'm like, I can't stop watching him.
30:01Like everything he does, like he's dying in there, but he won't stop.
30:05He's huffing and puffing.
30:06Yeah.
30:06Yeah.
30:06And I'm just watching.
30:08Every time I look up on this monitor, I see where's the big guy.
30:10There he is.
30:11You never know.
30:12It's a, that's a tough thing.
30:13Like the personality factor.
30:15And I think about it all the time.
30:16Like so many people, when John was first getting to like, we're going to go to the scenic
30:21kid and everybody was like, that ain't it.
30:24It was.
30:24Yeah.
30:25He had all the other pieces of it and the in ring stuff came over time, but it wasn't,
30:30it was never smooth in ring performer.
30:33He was just the, the, the personality and the charisma that just made everything else
30:37work.
30:38You know?
30:38Yeah.
30:39If there's a kid out there that's wanting to do this, that's wanting to come in,
30:42that's wanting to, that does what we did, which one day turns on the TV, see
30:46pro wrestling and goes, I have to do this with my life.
30:49What would you tell them?
30:50Well, and it's going to sound like I'm blowing smoke, but it would be to come through our
30:55doors.
30:56Honestly, that to me is what keeps all of this going.
31:01The idea of NXT and what you built, built there.
31:05And honestly, the culture, again, the culture of everybody being there.
31:10None of us behind the scenes.
31:12You know me, I've been committed to this place for 40 years, but none of us want to be up
31:16here.
31:17Yeah.
31:17All in the most positive way.
31:19We all want to be the people that are helping take the young men and women that come through
31:24our doors and help them to have the possibility to be able to have the lives that we now have,
31:31which to me, you know, I'm sure you're used to it, you know, by now, but it still blows
31:36me away to be where we're at.
31:39Yeah.
31:39In our life.
31:40It does me too.
31:41I've never lost perspective of that.
31:43Yeah.
31:43Yeah.
31:44It's the craziest thing.
31:45If you want a real shot, a real possibility, and not that there aren't, I'm sure there's
31:51wonderful schools out there, but you're just going to find a place that cares more because
31:55everybody really is there pulling the rope in the same direction.
31:59And it isn't about them.
32:00That part is genuine because each of us do take a piece of that.
32:05I don't know, good fortune that all the, you know, young men and women have that go up
32:10and are successful with you guys on the main roster.
32:13And then they come back and visit and it's like, you know, geez, you know, whatever.
32:19You were right.
32:20And everything you said, different aspects.
32:22You know, no different than your children.
32:24I was just going to say.
32:25You're the dumbest guy in the world until, you know, they're 25, 26.
32:28I mean, you kidding?
32:29My kids now think, you know, I'm not the dumbest guy in the world.
32:32Like, okay, I get it.
32:33You had a couple of tidbits in there.
32:35Yeah.
32:36Every now and then.
32:36While you were doing dumb shit.
32:37You had a couple of good ones.
32:39Yeah.
32:39I think my advice would be very similar is just like, treat it like a profession.
32:45Do everything that you can.
32:46And the place to do that is here.
32:48In one building, you have the best strength and conditioning.
32:54The best trainers to get you in the best shape and keep you bulletproof.
32:58You have the best in ring stuff.
33:01You have the best minds in the business that can train you.
33:04You have the best promo people.
33:06You have the best psychology.
33:08You have every tool in the world.
33:10And then continue to treat it like a profession because what you do with those tools is up
33:14to you.
33:16Being around that and that excitement and that energy level where it's not a job, it's
33:20not a profession yet.
33:22It's just hungry kids trying, working their ass off to get something more out of life.
33:27It's inspiring.
33:29I miss it every single day.
33:30Yeah.
33:31Well, just so you know, your job's taken.
33:34Yeah.
33:36That I've taken.
33:37No room.
33:37Taken and done better than I did, man.
33:41All right.
33:41Well, Dave told us we have to wrap up.
33:43So, you know, this is where we're supposed to say goodbye.
33:47But if you could come upstairs for 20 minutes, I'd love to meet with you on something else.
33:50We'll say goodbye for now.
33:51Yeah.
33:52Fair enough.
33:57Yeah.
34:00That's maybe goodbye.
34:01Yeah, yeah, yeah.
34:09A good tip.
Comments