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00:00Our New York Post sports columnist Mike Vaccaro has an exclusive feature column on how Mets legends Dale Strawberry and
00:06Lenny Dykstra are repairing a fractured and complicated relationship decades after their time in Flushing.
00:13Mike joins us now and had a chance to talk to both of these guys who at one point in
00:18the 80s were larger than life in New York City.
00:21So, Mike, thank you for joining us and thank you for kind of peeling back the layer when it comes
00:26to these two complicated relationships.
00:29But to refresh everyone's memory, let's take a trip back to the 1980s.
00:35Two part question here. How would you describe this duo back in the 80s and how and why did two
00:42teammates who were some of the biggest name in New York sports at the time have a falling out?
00:48Like what started it all?
00:51Well, look, I mean, you said what you said before they were larger than life. That's exactly what they were.
00:56They were both electric personalities. They were both fan favorites.
01:00Like Daryl could hit home runs over the sky and immediately made an impact with the Mets.
01:05And, you know, he was really the cornerstone of the franchise, you know, on a franchise that had huge names
01:10like Heath Hernandez and Gary Carter.
01:12Strawberry Star was the brightest for many years.
01:16Dykstra was a guy who was kind of an underdog who came up, but he always seemed to get big
01:19hits.
01:19You see a picture there of him being a home run to win game three of the National League Division
01:24Series in 86.
01:26In the World Series, he hit another home run in game three, leading off game three that really turned that
01:31World Series around.
01:32His nickname was Nails, which kind of said it all.
01:35And when they were together with the Mets, I mean, they were two really dynamic parts of the puzzle.
01:40And they both embraced being on that team and being part of New York in the 1980s.
01:46And that's a very complicated story because New York in the 1980s, there were a lot of temptations.
01:50There was a lot of things that you could a lot of ways you could find trouble.
01:54Darryl found it while he was with the Mets a little bit, and then later on also.
01:59Dykstra really didn't start to compile his list of problems until after he was sent to the Phillies.
02:05But both those guys kind of embodied kind of the, you know, the us against the world attitude of the
02:11Mets.
02:12And look, I mean, you know, I wouldn't say their relationship specifically was frayed, but, you know, Lenny along the
02:20way pretty much lost all of his friends because of odd behavior, because of his addiction to his addictions to
02:27drugs and the steroids and all kinds of things to alcohol.
02:30And really, you know, Darryl was instrumental in repairing this particular friendship and the idea that maybe Lenny can now
02:38repair a lot of other ones that still need a little repair.
02:44How bad did things get between these two relationships?
02:49And I guess what were both of their rock bottoms, as we call those?
02:54Yeah, look, for Strawberry, I mean, he was more, I guess, known to people in New York because later on
02:59he played for the Angers.
03:00Yankees after having some problems after he left the Mets.
03:03I mean, he went to Smithers when he was with the Mets, but then, you know, when he went out
03:06to California, played for the Dodgers and the Giants, he had some problems out there.
03:10George Steinbrenner made him a reclamation project in the 90s, and he was a big part of a couple of
03:16championship Yankees teams and actually was a rallying point in 98 because he came, he was diagnosed with colon cancer.
03:26Survived that, came back to play, only to succumb to drugs again and a couple of other times before he
03:32really turned his life around in a very private way and tried to make it as public as he was
03:37comfortable with in terms of trying to lend his experiences and his knowledge to other people.
03:42Lenny's was a lot different.
03:43I mean, Lenny, you know, once he went to the Phillies, he got in trouble for gambling, poker games, he
03:48got a DUI, he was charged in various times of sexual harassment and sexual assault, improper business dealings and fraud.
04:00And he wound up spending some time in jail because of Grand Theft Auto.
04:03I mean, he was a, he was an incredible time.
04:06And he was, you know, he, the root of most of those problems was his addiction to drugs.
04:11And in fact, you know, the, the thing that allowed this relationship to get to the point where it is
04:17now is that Lenny called Daryl one day and asked him for money because he was broke.
04:21And Daryl, knowing the behavior, being able to spot it from a mile away, understood that Lenny wasn't calling for,
04:28you know, for money so he could eat.
04:30He was calling for money because he wanted to buy some more drugs.
04:33But Daryl agreed to do it.
04:35He gave him the money, but he agreed to do it because he really believed in his heart of hearts
04:37and through his own experiences that the next time Lenny needed to call somebody, he would call somebody he absolutely
04:43trusted with the idea of trying to get some help.
04:46And that's by, by giving him the money, Daryl hoped that Lenny would call him when that happened and he
04:52did.
04:52And Daryl was receptive to it and subsequently has just been aggressively trying to get Lenny well.
04:59And, you know, I spoke to Lenny on the phone.
05:02I can tell you he sounds a lot different than the character a lot of people saw in the documentary
05:07a couple of years ago, Once Upon a Time in Queens, where, you know, his insights were, were welcome and
05:13they were funny and they were, they were, they were honest and they were candid.
05:15But they also looked like they were being delivered by the town drunk.
05:19And, you know, he's, he's, his, his voice is clearer now.
05:23His thoughts seem clearer.
05:25And that's where they are now.
05:26And Daryl is largely responsible for that, even though he doesn't want to take a lot of credit for it.
05:30He just talks about it being a friend, taking after a friend.
05:33But anybody else will see this knows that Daryl has been important in terms of getting Lenny to rehab, making
05:39sure he goes to his meetings, making sure his bills are paid.
05:43And Lenny is beyond grateful for all that Daryl has done for him because he's at a time in his
05:47life now where he wants to make amends for all the things that he's done.
05:51And look, it's going to take a long time because there are a lot of things for Lenny to make
05:54amends for.
05:55And I want to touch on that in, in two seconds.
05:58But when you, when you think about New York sports back in the eighties, in the nineties, like we celebrate
06:04some of the greatest New York sports professional players, whether it be, you know, the Lawrence Taylors, the Lenny Dykstra's,
06:11they struggled with drugs back in the eighties, in the nineties.
06:14Why do you think it was so common for our star athletes from this city to struggle so much when
06:20it came to drug usage?
06:22You know, Brandon, it's important you, you, you point that out because, you know, part of what I say in
06:26the column is, you know, at some point drugs came for these guys, the way it came for a lot
06:30of people in the eighties, not just athletes, but look, I mean, that was just the culture of the time.
06:36You know, cocaine was, was, was everywhere in the 1980s.
06:39If you went to college in those days, as I did, you could find it there.
06:42Certainly in New York, if you wanted to find a place where you could, where you could do that drug
06:48specifically, but all drugs really, it was, it was common, far more common than it is now.
06:53And there was a lot less education to try and give, give, give players an understanding of what the dangers
06:58were.
06:59Derek Jeter always talked about when he, when he spoke about Daryl Strawberry to me, anyway, he said how fortunate
07:05he felt that a, he, he, he was brought up well by his parents, but also look, I mean, when
07:10you're 23, 24 years old and the temptations of New York are at your feet, it's good to have people
07:15who can look out for you.
07:16And on the Yankees of the nineties, did, did, you know, Jeter had guys who looked out for him, even
07:22his friends, even his peers, you know, by that point, there had been great education about the dangers of drugs
07:26and how they could sidetrack, you know, even athletes who think they're invulnerable and bulletproof in their, in their primes.
07:32Daryl didn't really have that.
07:34Look, I mean, the eighties were just a, it was a landscape of, of temptation.
07:38And if you didn't have the right kind of guidance and, you know, you know, both Lenny and Daryl, they
07:44were in town last week to do a documentary about Gary Carter.
07:46And both of those guys have talked a lot about how they wish they would have followed Gary Carter and
07:51his example, who was very, you know, kept his nose clean, was hardly ever drank anything stronger than Pepsi, let
07:56alone anything of any other kind of, of mind altering substance.
08:00And, and instead of the other characters, both inside the clubhouse and outside the clubhouse, they wound up following because
08:06that might've kept him on the straight and narrow.
08:08And, you know, it's, it's, it was really a story about the eighties, I think that, and they got caught
08:13in that.
08:13Look, not everybody in the eighties did drugs.
08:15I'm not, I'm not intimating that, but it was certainly a different time and a different place where, where those
08:20kinds of temptations were a lot more prevalent, especially if you were young and especially if you had a little,
08:24little money in your pocket.
08:25Yeah. I feel like in the, in the eighties and nineties, that temptation was drugs.
08:30Now in the 2000, what 26 is, I think that temptation now is attention.
08:35See a lot of these athletes doing a little bit too much on social media, kind of snitching and telling
08:40on themselves because they want that, that attention and that dopamine hit that, Hey, look, I'm this larger than life
08:46athlete in New York city.
08:48I think I can get away with X, Y, Z, but that camera phone or that camera right there is
08:53actually more detrimental to the brand than it does help sometimes in, in, in these athletes put themselves in these,
09:00in these weird situations.
09:02And you kind of touched on how Daryl Strawberry has kind of told you about his why, when it comes
09:07to repairing this relationship and helping out a former teammate, a brother there's talking and there's doing Mike.
09:14So do you think that when, when you're talking to Daryl, does he think that it's sustainable for Lenny to
09:20stay on this straight and narrow path?
09:22And when you talk to Lenny, does he feel as though he can stay on the right path?
09:27Well, I can tell you that Lenny is hopeful and Lenny is committed to wanting to do the right thing.
09:31Look, he's lost a lot in his life, you know, and you think he recognizes now that he was the
09:36cause of a lot of those, that pain, a lot of those estrangements in his family, among his friends, among
09:41former teammates.
09:43And, and, and so, so, so look, it's, it's, it's important for him to, to stay in his recovery and
09:49to, and to do that.
09:50Daryl obviously is a guy who can tell you chapter and verse that you can think you have things together
09:54and relapse is always one bad choice away.
09:57Now it's been a while for Daryl and I think Daryl, you know, he, he also understands that a lot
10:02of people who care about him or are just interested in him, you know, always kind of look at him
10:06warily.
10:06Will he relapse again? And he understands that that's part of an, of an addiction's daily, an addict's daily struggle.
10:13And look, as you and I are talking now, Brandon, there's 111 days between now and August 1st, which is
10:19the goal both men have.
10:21They want Lenny on the field when the 40th anniversary of the Mets are celebrated at city field.
10:25They also know that means it's 111 days that could get in the way because we all know what the
10:30addict's famous mantra is,
10:33which is one day at a time. And, you know, you want to start every day with the hope that
10:37you can get to the end of the day sober.
10:40And look, that's been a struggle for both those men in their lives.
10:42So they understand there's no guarantees and you have to stay committed to your program and you have to stay
10:46committed to wanting to be well.
10:49I can tell you, like I said, I mean, talking to Lenny, he sounds like a different man.
10:54And I know that doesn't offer proof of anything, but it certainly is a step in the right direction audibly.
10:58I mean, he sounds like a regular 62, 63-year-old man to sound and not the guy we saw
11:05in those videos a couple of years ago.
11:08You know, in the same way with Daryl. Daryl's a lot different guy now than he was even 10, 20,
11:1230 years ago.
11:13Very committed to doing things in this kind of, you know, chapter two of his life.
11:18And certainly Lenny Dykstra has been a beneficiary of that new role that Daryl sees for himself.
11:24One thing about New York, they may root for a bad boy, but they definitely root for guys who try
11:29and come back, go through some adversity in life, and now get themselves back on that straight and narrow path.
11:34Yeah, and that's what Daryl is looking for.
11:36Look, Daryl remembers what it was like to be there when they retired his number two years ago and the
11:40cheers that covered him.
11:42And look, you know, it wasn't just the drugs between Daryl and Mets fans.
11:45But look, I mean, Daryl had success with the Yankees, and sometimes that's a deal-breaker for Mets fans.
11:50And so there were a lot of things.
11:51There was a lot of baggage that Daryl dragged on the field that day, and he heard the love, and
11:56he heard the cheers, and it stays with him still.
11:58And that's the moment he wants for Lenny because Lenny has been absent from far too many of these celebrations
12:04in the past because, look, by his own doing, because he was estranged by a lot of these guys.
12:08A lot of his teammates didn't want him around because of just who he was, what he'd said, what he'd
12:13done.
12:14And so Daryl is hopeful that Lenny gets that moment, you know, for himself, for Mets fans, and that there'll
12:19be a moment when he walks on the field.
12:21And, you know, I think we both know that if that happens, and hopefully it will, that the response from
12:26Mets fans is going to be great because Lenny was a very popular player here.
12:30And as Daryl said, you know, you want to talk about Lenny Dykstra.
12:33How many athletes can you name who were wildly popular in both New York and Philadelphia, where everybody in both
12:39cities hate each other,
12:40but they all can agree that they loved watching Lenny Dykstra play baseball?
12:44Man, it eats for free in two cities.
12:46You've got to love that, man.
12:47You've got to love that.
12:48That's right.
12:48And, hey, it's a legacy that you leave off the field as well.
12:50And for Lenny, it's going to be a story of triumph.
12:53So that August 1st date, you know, we're going to definitely come back to you,
12:57and hopefully that's a day we can all celebrate.
12:59And I can't wait to see both he and Daryl, the smiles upon not only their faces,
13:03but their teammates as well when Lenny kind of steps out there.
13:06And he celebrated throughout Citi Field.
13:09Mike, love the story, man.
13:11And in this day and age, with all this rah, rah, rah, back and forth when it comes to some
13:15of the content out there,
13:16love a story about triumph and adversity.
13:18So we appreciate you hopping on with us today.
13:22Brandon, it's great talking to you for any story, but this one especially,
13:25I'm glad we were able to have a conversation about it.
13:28Ronan, it's great talking to you, but this is just a little bit.
13:31You
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