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Short filmTranscript
00:00:16Hey there, everybody. I hope you're all well and I hope you enjoy what happens here over the next
00:00:21hour or so. To find out who our first guest is, let me hand you over to the MC for
00:00:26the evening,
00:00:26the very beautiful Fred Cook. Thank you, Tommy. Well, our first guest is Mr. John Mulaney.
00:00:39John, how are you? Very good now. Nice to see you. Fred, what chat show do you do? Do you
00:00:51have a type of a chat show thing on Netflix?
00:00:55Yeah, I did one called Everybody's in LA. It was a six-night marathon, kind of celebrating the city of
00:01:02Los Angeles.
00:01:02Then we just did a 12-episode weekly run called Everybody's Live. Pretty much the same show, just not night
00:01:10after night.
00:01:11Is there a chat show component to it or something? Yeah. Oh, yeah. And a call-in segment.
00:01:18So we'd take a lot of calls, talk to people, and then we did kind of whatever else we wanted.
00:01:23What's the attraction of the chat show format to you?
00:01:27Little aspects of different ones were attractive. The whole thing together was sort of interesting, but I liked having callers.
00:01:36I liked, we had a topic on each episode. I liked the LA one a lot because we got in
00:01:42just to the city.
00:01:43It was a very deep dive into the city for six nights straight.
00:01:46And who did you have on the LA one?
00:01:48The LA one? Yeah.
00:01:49We had on a hypnotist named Carrie Gaynor. We had, let's see, Marsha Clark, a prosecutor from the O.J.
00:01:57Simpson trial.
00:01:58Well, how's she doing these days?
00:01:59She's doing quite well. She's doing really well. Her batting average is great, all told.
00:02:05We had David Letterman on, friends of mine like Bill Hader, Pete Davidson.
00:02:10Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:02:12Lots of people. Los Lobos, Beck.
00:02:16Goodness, wow.
00:02:18John Cale.
00:02:19Did you, John Cale, my God. Did you, were you in any way intimidated by talking to Dave Letterman?
00:02:26Oh, sure. But we were, we were so trying to be, we were kind of trying to be shaggy that
00:02:35I wasn't really worried about the quality of the interview.
00:02:37I was just intimidated to be around him.
00:02:39When you say shaggy now, what does that, you know that thing.
00:02:42How does shaggy manifest?
00:02:44Well, you pretend not to care. So you're saying to the audience, hey, don't worry if this fails because I
00:02:48certainly don't care.
00:02:49But you do deeply care. That kind of move.
00:02:52So what kind of questions did you ask him? I'm just curious about the, about the.
00:02:55Well, now the questions were topic based. So we had topics like cruise ships, coyotes.
00:03:03We talked about the palm tree shortage coming to Los Angeles, which is a real problem.
00:03:08Really is. They're not native. They were planted in the 1920s for atmosphere and they're all, they're dying and the
00:03:14Olympics are coming and we don't know what to do.
00:03:17So the questions tended to, David Letterman, have you ever been attacked by a coyote?
00:03:23John Cale, have you had major surgery recently? Questions like that.
00:03:27Good questions.
00:03:28Yeah.
00:03:28And when you opened the phone lines, what happened?
00:03:30Oh, it was, it was great. We're, you know, being in the RTE building, I was very inspired by Joe
00:03:36Duffy and talk to Joe.
00:03:37Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. The, the quality of the call, the quality of the person, the, the tenor of the
00:03:44call that talk to Joe would have was what I was after, which is very mundane.
00:03:49And did, did people in Los Angeles get the reference when you said, I want it to be like, I
00:03:53don't know if I said Joe Duffy or the words talk to Joe in a Netflix meeting, but I certainly
00:03:58had it in the back of my head.
00:04:00Um, so the phone calls were, so if the caller had a great story, I tended to weed them out.
00:04:06I wanted someone with sort of a, uh, a mid-level point of view on the topic.
00:04:14I really liked that more than someone would say, we have someone who was attacked by a coyote during their
00:04:18wedding and the coyote, uh, took out, the coyote ripped their jacket apart and revealed they had a second phone
00:04:25and they were cheating on the wife.
00:04:26I go, no, none of that. I just want someone who's seen a coyote.
00:04:28Who saw a coyote from a car.
00:04:29A coyote from a coyote.
00:04:32A kind of an anti, a kind of a Samuel Beckett type of chat show. An anti-interesting.
00:04:38Exactly. Samuel Beckett.
00:04:40Wow.
00:04:40Art, art does not dwell in clarity. That was a big, that was strange you say that. That was a
00:04:45big.
00:04:46And are you going to do more?
00:04:47I'm not sure. I, when, yes. Yes, we'll do more, but I don't know when. I'm on tour now for
00:04:52a long, long time.
00:04:54Um, who's at home when you go on tour?
00:04:58Who's in my home?
00:04:59Yeah, who's at home?
00:05:00No one.
00:05:01Who do you leave? Nobody?
00:05:02No, my wife and my two kids come with me pretty much to every city.
00:05:07So, it's been very fun to have. I have an 18-month-old and a four-year-old son. 18
00:05:12-month-old daughter, four-year-old son.
00:05:13How does that work in terms of being on the road with you?
00:05:17Uh, so far, great.
00:05:20Really?
00:05:20Yeah, it's exciting.
00:05:22And you're dying to get out of the hotel room?
00:05:24No, no, it's, I've, I've, it's much more fun to fold them into the tour and, uh, bring my son
00:05:33backstage and have the kids around than it is to leave and come back.
00:05:36Because these two, uh, I go out for four or five nights a week and it would just get too
00:05:42strict.
00:05:42Wow, so kind of like a circus family.
00:05:45100%.
00:05:45Wow.
00:05:46And they, you know, they get to know the hotel people and they think it's their home and then we,
00:05:53you know, they're confused and then we tell them it's not their home and it's all great.
00:05:56Was there, was there any dilemma in organizing that? Were you, were you second guessing yourself at all? It sounds
00:06:03ideal. A lot of comics would be going.
00:06:05It was a bit trial and error of, you know, once my son was born, maybe I do a weekend
00:06:12five nights in a row and I thought this isn't, this isn't good.
00:06:15Neither Olivia nor I liked being a part or liked, you know, having, uh, my son not see me for
00:06:21that long.
00:06:22Wow.
00:06:22And I thought there's an age where they won't be able to come, where school will have opinions on how
00:06:29often they're there. So let's do it for now.
00:06:32Yeah, yeah.
00:06:32And right now it's working great.
00:06:34Um, tell me about Olivia. Who, who is she?
00:06:37My wife Olivia is the mother of my two children. She's an actor. Her name is Olivia Munn.
00:06:42Is she famous?
00:06:43She is famous.
00:06:44Oh, really?
00:06:45Yeah.
00:06:45How long have you guys been married?
00:06:46We've been married since the summer of 2023. No, 24. What year is it now?
00:06:5426.
00:06:55Fantastic.
00:06:58Are you married?
00:06:59I am married, yeah. I've been married for, what year is this?
00:07:032026.
00:07:04Still?
00:07:05Yeah. You were married in the summer of 24?
00:07:07No, I was married in the, uh, summer of 2009.
00:07:13Wow.
00:07:13So I'm, I'm 16 years married. How long have you been doing stand-up?
00:07:18Oh, let's say 2003, 2002.
00:07:21Wow.
00:07:22Yeah.
00:07:22And have you changed much, do you reckon, as a performer?
00:07:26I think I became a performer. I think I was a writer who did stand-up for the first 10
00:07:31or so years.
00:07:32Mm-hmm.
00:07:33And I really like being on stage and being, you know, a song and dance man.
00:07:39Meaning?
00:07:40Meaning it's about the performance and not like, guess what? I have these very clever ideas and I'm going to
00:07:46read them without notes.
00:07:48Mm.
00:07:48Out of my mouth, do you, yeah.
00:07:50Is your wife giving you a performance advice?
00:07:52My wife has given me very good acting advice.
00:07:54Really?
00:07:54I act a little bit, occasionally, when people ask me.
00:07:58Whenever they ask me.
00:07:59In fact, I've never turned anything down.
00:08:02But she's given me very good advice, yeah.
00:08:04Mm.
00:08:05And the advice has been?
00:08:06Do less. You're doing too much. Stop indicating. She says it much, much.
00:08:11She said, you're very interesting. Just be still.
00:08:14Every man watching is dreaming of a wife who says, do less to him.
00:08:20No, my wife is superior, superior actor and I'm very happy for her advice.
00:08:25But she just goes, you're interesting enough. Just be, you know.
00:08:29Yeah.
00:08:30You don't have to listen like that.
00:08:33Every reaction doesn't have to be.
00:08:35Yeah.
00:08:36I thought that was good, though.
00:08:37Yeah, well, that's, I was trained in kabuki.
00:08:41What's your Irish connection?
00:08:45Most recent families from Ballyhonas and County Mayo, probably 19, early 20th century.
00:08:52My great-grandmother, Nora Jennings, came to the United States, to Boston.
00:08:57And married my grandfather, who I, I'm not positive they might have been potato famine era, 1840s,
00:09:05which is my great-grandfather, on my father's side, I think it's pretty early 19th century Ireland to the east
00:09:15coast of the United States.
00:09:16But we know much more about my mother's side.
00:09:18The Jennings from Ballyhonas?
00:09:45Ballyhonas, yeah.
00:09:45Never, don't become enamored with the priests.
00:09:49Yeah, yeah.
00:09:51She came over, I think it was Boston proper, where she first worked as a maid, in sort of a
00:09:57Protestant, white Anglo-Saxon Protestant house.
00:10:00They would have her come out to the dining room to show guests that she had nice teeth.
00:10:03They go, Nora's from Ireland, but she has very nice teeth, and she'd show them that she had nice teeth.
00:10:07Yeah, so America's always been super cool.
00:10:10You've great teeth.
00:10:11Thank you very much, I appreciate it.
00:10:13And then she married my great-grandfather, who became the mayor of Salem, Massachusetts, and then a congressman from Massachusetts.
00:10:21And so when she visited Ballyhonas in the 40s, it was a great to-do that she was back, and
00:10:28she'd married what they called the Lord Mayor of Salem,
00:10:31and now a congressional representative.
00:10:35And when we went back in the late 90s, everyone remembered the party they had in the 40s.
00:10:40So there's not a lot going on there.
00:10:42Wow.
00:10:43Yeah.
00:10:46Did you give up drink?
00:10:48Am I remembering that rightly?
00:10:50I did, yeah.
00:10:51I've had, I've been sober, December 20th was five years.
00:10:55Good man.
00:10:56Right, okay.
00:10:58Why did you stop drinking?
00:10:59So I stopped drinking for the first time in 2005, and I had a pretty, it was a lot more
00:11:07drugs, by the way.
00:11:08So I had a pretty bad relapse in the late 20-teens, and then went to two different rehab places
00:11:15in 2020, and got, I've been sober ever since then.
00:11:20What kind of drugs were you taking?
00:11:21I was on cocaine, a lot of speed, Xanax, and some opioids.
00:11:28Wow.
00:11:33Yeah.
00:11:33Yeah.
00:11:33I'm really, can I just say, I'm really excited to be on the show.
00:11:36I've seen almost every episode.
00:11:38No, you haven't.
00:11:38Yeah, I really have.
00:11:41During COVID, I saw the Stephen Ray interview.
00:11:43Oh, yeah.
00:11:43And it was so incredible that I kind of went through every episode during the pandemic, and then got the
00:11:50RTE player, and I've watched it since.
00:11:51That's a real move.
00:11:54It's really, that's a big commitment.
00:11:59You know, you hesitate before you download the player, but.
00:12:01For sure.
00:12:01It's worth it.
00:12:04It's worth it.
00:12:05It's worth it.
00:12:05Not the best app, but it is the only way.
00:12:07It's, yeah.
00:12:08It's approach, there's a Soviet vibe to it.
00:12:10Yeah.
00:12:11Um, the drugs thing, um, when you were in, like, was therapy a big part of the rehab thing?
00:12:20Like, trying to understand why you took drugs?
00:12:29Uh, in, in the, in the final, in the treatment that really made a difference, no.
00:12:41Yes, obviously, that, all of that informed staying sober later.
00:12:46What are some patterns in my life?
00:12:47Yeah.
00:12:47What are things and behaviors I fall into, or ways that I behave that then build up enough stress where
00:12:53I was resorting to that.
00:12:57But, the, the act, I mean, strange as it seems, just the immediacy of this, you can't do this anymore.
00:13:04And some primal thing of, we're doing something we know is killing us.
00:13:08And, and that overriding the desire to do drugs.
00:13:12That was kind of the, the, the immediacy of the problem was what solved the problem, uh, in the short
00:13:19term.
00:13:19And then, things like therapy in the long term, obviously, have helped with sobriety.
00:13:24But, uh, it wasn't like unearthing some memory of why I first felt that I needed drugs to feel better.
00:13:34Um, it was kind of just looking at it as, for whatever reason, this is part of me, you know.
00:13:41And so, know that it's there, and respect it, treat it with a lot of respect, but, uh, don't let
00:13:48it into the room.
00:13:50How much of it was about fun?
00:13:53Uh, less in my, um, mid to late thirties.
00:13:57It was very much about keeping it under wraps, using a lot of, you know, uppers to get through what
00:14:05I was doing, and using a lot of other drugs to then come down from those.
00:14:09It became a lot about, like, maintenance and, and the appearance of not being on drugs, versus some, I don't
00:14:15know, more, exciting entertainment industry bacchanal.
00:14:19How many of them were, how many of them were legal?
00:14:21Well, that's a good question.
00:14:24With prescription?
00:14:25Yeah, yeah.
00:14:25Um, three or four.
00:14:30And then I would sort of run out of the legal, and then relapse into cocaine and things like that.
00:14:35Oh.
00:14:36Yeah.
00:14:39Did you, uh, are you a sober person?
00:14:41Uh, ah.
00:14:47Most of the time.
00:14:48Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:14:49Uh, well, I stopped for eight years.
00:14:52Mm-hmm.
00:14:53And then my wife asked me to start drinking again.
00:14:55That's really nice.
00:14:57That's a...
00:14:58I swear to God, we were on holiday.
00:15:02I hadn't been drinking for eight years.
00:15:05And I think the fact that we were on holiday, and I was still the miserable f***er that had been
00:15:12at home.
00:15:13Yeah.
00:15:14And she's a psychotherapist.
00:15:16And she just said...
00:15:17Did she take you out on a veranda?
00:15:19Was it like a proposal?
00:15:20No, it was on the verge of anger and tears, and she just said, please start drinking.
00:15:32I think the only question I asked was, are you sure?
00:15:35Uh-huh.
00:15:36And she went, yeah.
00:15:37So I started drinking that night, and that was about ten years ago.
00:15:42That's great.
00:15:42Isn't that lovely?
00:15:43What a lovely story.
00:15:44You very rarely hear these.
00:15:46Please, my darling, start drinking.
00:15:49In ten years of moderation and success.
00:15:53Yeah, more or less, yeah.
00:15:54Um, did you notice anything with, uh, coming off stage and your wife and two children are there on a
00:16:03bus?
00:16:05Or, coming off stage and, will we have a drink in a bar?
00:16:10Will we, like, what's the, or whatever the thing was, how to come down?
00:16:14Yeah, I mean, it's like going into a different gear that's equally, uh, I'm hyper-present on stage.
00:16:23And then when my 18-month-old very much wants to eat a latex glove, I'm hyper-present, but in
00:16:31a different way.
00:16:32And I find that gear shift really nice.
00:16:34So it's not pretending, it's not, it's not immediately going, um, that was fake and this is real.
00:16:43Some people try to do that with their career.
00:16:48Like, well, the family, that's real and this is fake.
00:16:51And I think that creates a weird split in people.
00:16:54Both are real, both are a different type of excitement and both have an incredible amount of immediacy, stand-up
00:17:01and toddlers.
00:17:02But I like that I'm still in a high gear doing something else.
00:17:07Yeah, and also you're, you're not a star.
00:17:11Oh.
00:17:12To my kids I am, yeah.
00:17:14Oh, really?
00:17:14Oh, yeah, imagine.
00:17:17Imagine being that little and I walk in.
00:17:20The legend.
00:17:21Yeah, how exciting that is.
00:17:22Does your wife announce you?
00:17:24Kids, please.
00:17:25No, but, you know, uh, I, uh, my daughter has occasionally clapped when I walk in the room, which is
00:17:32very nice.
00:17:32But she's also just learning her hands.
00:17:36My son's a big Elvis fan and I took him to Graceland and, uh, he also came to the show
00:17:43that night.
00:17:44I was performing at the soundstage at Graceland.
00:17:47They have a big theater.
00:17:48Wow.
00:17:48Yeah.
00:17:49And, um, he was asking me, he's always been confused on what the show is.
00:17:54Yeah.
00:17:54And, uh, because I always say I'm going to do the show.
00:17:57What the show is, is he part of the show?
00:17:59My son Malcolm wants to know.
00:18:01And shouldn't the show be me and him together with the intimation that that would be better.
00:18:06And then, um, he saw the show at Graceland after, you know, lots of Elvis stuff.
00:18:13And he said, it's so long.
00:18:19Dad, it's so long.
00:18:22Oh, he'd be a great reviewer.
00:18:24Yeah.
00:18:25He works at Chortle now.
00:18:28John Mulaney, it's so long.
00:18:30It's so, it was so long.
00:18:32He was out there for so long.
00:18:34Yeah.
00:18:34Yeah.
00:18:35Nothing like Elvis.
00:18:36Really long.
00:18:37And what was interesting was my son asked to meet Elvis.
00:18:42And, uh, I said, you can't.
00:18:45And, but not like it's, not like you don't have permission.
00:18:49And I said, and I had realized that we'd been listening to Elvis songs and we watched the 68 special.
00:18:54Yeah.
00:18:54And we watched, um, a Vegas special.
00:18:57But I, I had not explained to him that Elvis was not with us anymore.
00:19:02And I also thought, I think he said, I said Elvis is in heaven.
00:19:07And he said, why?
00:19:09And I assume he's in heaven.
00:19:13You don't go to hell for pills.
00:19:15Right?
00:19:15I hope so.
00:19:16I hope so.
00:19:20But, uh, but it wasn't the first time he learned about death.
00:19:23But I thought, this is the first time I've described a person dying to him.
00:19:29I didn't describe the death.
00:19:30Excuse me.
00:19:31I said, this person that we've talked about is not here.
00:19:34They're in heaven.
00:19:35And, um, they, uh, and yeah.
00:19:39And, and then they have his grave there too.
00:19:41Mm.
00:19:42Yeah.
00:19:42So you can show your kid that.
00:19:44When you talked about heaven, why, why did you do that?
00:19:47Why did you mention heaven to him?
00:19:50He's four.
00:19:51I want him to think that, um, well, I'm starting to smile, but I'm being totally, I mean this
00:19:58genuine.
00:19:58I want him to think there's a heaven.
00:20:01Why?
00:20:02In case something happens to his mom or I.
00:20:06He can find out other things later.
00:20:12Do you remember thinking that?
00:20:13Do you remember thinking?
00:20:14Yeah.
00:20:15And I want him to know Elvis.
00:20:18No, sorry to joke.
00:20:19I, I do want him to, uh, think that.
00:20:21Yeah.
00:20:23The alternative being.
00:20:26The alternative being something I, I would have thought that when I was four.
00:20:31So I liked that idea for him.
00:20:35Thoughts.
00:20:37I think it sounds beautiful.
00:20:38I can.
00:20:39Okay.
00:20:39But it, uh, the, and the reason is, is clear.
00:20:47Yeah.
00:20:48I haven't heard it, but yeah, wow.
00:20:50Um, was religion, was Catholicism a big thing growing up for you?
00:20:56Very much so.
00:20:56Yeah.
00:20:56Really?
00:20:57Yeah.
00:20:57So we were church every Sunday, all the sacraments, uh, you know, a pretty liberal Chicago city
00:21:07parish, but, uh, but yeah, pretty, pretty devout in a way that maybe not every other kid was
00:21:15in the nineties too.
00:21:18Just serious about it.
00:21:19It was taken seriously in my family.
00:21:20Yeah.
00:21:22Latin mass as well.
00:21:23Things like that.
00:21:25And the benefits of that were what do you think?
00:21:28It's a great question.
00:21:31Um, I'm not, I'm not positive.
00:21:38Uh, it added stakes to life.
00:21:42There's sort of two extremes, you know?
00:21:44Um, now are these benefits or are these just what happened?
00:21:47Uh, but I also was not, I was not, um, scared by it.
00:21:56So there was plenty of things I thought that seems like good advice.
00:21:59That's not real.
00:22:01That seems like good advice.
00:22:02Oh, I don't, I don't think that's a thing.
00:22:04Can you remember the last time you were at confession?
00:22:08No, I don't remember it.
00:22:10Hmm.
00:22:11Yeah.
00:22:12Did you get married in a Catholic church?
00:22:14No.
00:22:16Is your wife Catholic?
00:22:18No.
00:22:21You can come in.
00:22:25This is the new secular Ireland.
00:22:27These are the new questions they ask.
00:22:28Oh yeah.
00:22:29Is this to get an Irish passport?
00:22:30Yeah.
00:22:31I would love one, by the way.
00:22:32If anyone can help with that.
00:22:33You must be entitled to one, are you?
00:22:35No, because now my mother could have gotten it because of Nora Jennings.
00:22:41Had she gotten it before I was born, I would have been able to get it.
00:22:44My uncle Neil has one and his kids do as well, but I do not.
00:22:49Yeah.
00:22:50But I assume there's enough chat shows, stand-up shows.
00:22:55I'd cut a ribbon at something.
00:22:57Let's talk.
00:22:59I'm really available for a lot of things.
00:23:01When are you performing here?
00:23:02Oh, so I'll be at the Olympia in April.
00:23:05Great.
00:23:05And yeah, love it there.
00:23:10Exciting to meet you, John.
00:23:11Really nice to meet you, Tommy.
00:23:13And thank you.
00:23:14And really flattered to be on the show.
00:23:15Thanks to everyone here for having me because I've really enjoyed it.
00:23:19Hey.
00:23:20Thanks, John.
00:23:20This was great.
00:23:21Thanks, Tommy.
00:23:37Welcome back to the second half, everybody.
00:23:39Who's next, Freddie?
00:23:41Tommy.
00:23:42Our next guest is Hayden Cassidy.
00:23:50Hello there.
00:23:51Hello.
00:23:52How are you?
00:23:52Good.
00:23:53How are you?
00:23:53Good now.
00:23:54Good to see you.
00:23:57Hayden Cassidy.
00:23:58Hayden Cassidy.
00:23:58Leah Hayden Cassidy, actually.
00:24:00But yeah, Hayden Cassidy.
00:24:02Who named you?
00:24:03Who named me?
00:24:04Leah came from, obviously, I think it was my grandma, actually.
00:24:07I was meant to be called Indigo.
00:24:09Imagine that.
00:24:10But my grandma wouldn't have it, so it was Leah.
00:24:12And then Hayden is my dad's surname and Cassidy is my mum's.
00:24:16And where did you grow up?
00:24:18Blanchardstown.
00:24:19Yeah.
00:24:20And how did you come to the attention of the researchers for the show?
00:24:24How did I come to the attention?
00:24:25I mean, I grew up in Blanchardstown.
00:24:29I'm Dublin-born, but I've lived in London the last eight years.
00:24:34And I actually haven't lived home in about ten years.
00:24:37I'm a barber by trade.
00:24:39And I also opened, about five years ago, a studio space in London called Cree,
00:24:45which started off as a one-chair studio just for clients after COVID.
00:24:51Obviously, we'd all been through a lot,
00:24:53so I wanted to give them a space that they felt comfortable in.
00:24:56And that kind of ended up becoming, you know, more and more popular.
00:25:01And eventually then, this time last year, I opened a bigger space,
00:25:06which is about 800 square foot in London Fields in Hackney.
00:25:11And that space, I really wanted to create this space for the community and for creatives.
00:25:18You know, a lot of my friends are creatives and just use the space if they wanted to work from
00:25:23it,
00:25:23if they wanted to meet new people, if they wanted to be part of, we do pop-ups,
00:25:27we do art clubs every Monday.
00:25:30When you say about opening the single client space after COVID,
00:25:35because we'd all been through an awful lot,
00:25:37what did you mean by that, by I've been through an awful lot?
00:25:41I think, to be honest, I think a lot of people, including myself,
00:25:44felt like a little bit of social anxiety, you know?
00:25:47Like, financially, I couldn't afford to open a shop.
00:25:50I didn't have a space to work in.
00:25:52And I thought maybe just, you know, whatever savings I had,
00:25:55let me put it into a space that I can just create an environment that feels a little bit like
00:26:01home.
00:26:02And, you know, it cuts the doors down.
00:26:04You know, I don't know about where you get your hair cut.
00:26:06Maybe it's a beautiful, welcoming spot.
00:26:08But sometimes when you sit in that chair, there's a surface-level conversation that happens in the shop.
00:26:14You know, where are you going on holidays?
00:26:17What did you do at the weekend?
00:26:18And I think people at that stage, coming out of COVID, needed a little bit more than that.
00:26:24What was the single space like?
00:26:27Can you describe it to me?
00:26:28What did you decide to put into it?
00:26:30So, the single space, I actually loved it.
00:26:33I stayed there for about four years.
00:26:35I allowed it to kind of build organically.
00:26:37I was fully booked.
00:26:39In terms of clients.
00:26:40And I just, like, I just held on to it for as long as I could.
00:26:44It was, it looked like a shed.
00:26:46It was in this industrial estate in Clapton.
00:26:50It looked like, you know, it was one door that kind of, you opened up.
00:26:55And it was honestly, like, it was probably the size smaller than this stage we're on right now.
00:26:59I had enough in my bank account.
00:27:01Over COVID, I was put on Universal Credits.
00:27:05However, I had 800 quid.
00:27:07So, I bought a second-hand barber chair, a second-hand mirror and a plant.
00:27:12And I walked down to the nearest, obviously, a plant was a necessary.
00:27:17And I walked down to the nearest shop on Clapton High Street, which has many kind of vintage stores and
00:27:23usually a bit of furniture that's out on the side of the road.
00:27:26And I found this gorgeous Chesterfield armchair, which I bargained down for 60 quid.
00:27:31So, I had that as well for clients to kind of sit in the way.
00:27:35How did you develop your reputation as a barber?
00:27:39And what, like, why would somebody call themselves a barber and not a hairdresser?
00:27:43Yeah, it's a great question.
00:27:44I think there's a foundation that's similar.
00:27:46We all love hair.
00:27:47We all do hair.
00:27:48We all do services and have clients.
00:27:51Barbering for me would be quite visual.
00:27:53So, if I'm fading or I'm cutting short hair, it's very much detail-orientated.
00:27:59I can, you know, I learned how to hot tail shave and cutthroat razor, all of those things.
00:28:05Is it mainly fellas?
00:28:07Mainly men, yeah, mainly men.
00:28:09Ah, right, okay.
00:28:09Yeah, so mainly men.
00:28:11And nowadays I say short hair specialist because I welcome everybody into the chair.
00:28:16But, you know, I started barbering 12 years ago and I actually had never thought about barbering before I picked
00:28:24up a clippers.
00:28:26One of my friends had started barbering and I found myself a little bit interested in the idea of it.
00:28:32And then he said one thing to me and he said, if you learn this trade, you can take it
00:28:35anywhere in the world.
00:28:37And all you'll need is a clipper or a scissors and a comb and you can make money and you
00:28:42can earn your living.
00:28:43So, that's initially why I got into the idea of travelling and being self-sufficient and having a trade.
00:28:49And the, er, something I guess maybe about chatting to men rather than chatting with women.
00:28:58Yeah.
00:28:59Must have, what was the, can you, can, so obviously instinctually you're kind of going, I want to have, I
00:29:05want to chat with lads.
00:29:06Yeah.
00:29:06And did you ever, like what's that about do you reckon?
00:29:12I don't know, I think like for me, I, like I grew up playing football.
00:29:15I played football since I was six years old and I'm, as a female, I was always on like the
00:29:19male teams going up to under 12s.
00:29:21You know, like we played with boys, I was always around boys and I think boys, I felt comfortable in
00:29:26the presence of like lads.
00:29:27And I think when I went into kind of barbering, it was like, oh, this feels natural.
00:29:31You know, I went, before I was a barber, I played football in America on a football scholarship.
00:29:36So, that was what I did.
00:29:38And then that got cooked short.
00:29:40I injured my leg.
00:29:41I got, I got a, I broke my leg in a tackle.
00:29:43So, I kind of had to go back to the drawing board.
00:29:46And honestly, I went into a barbershop in Crow Street and I just felt alive.
00:29:50It was like this beautiful mix of culture, passions.
00:29:55And I kind of chanced my arm and asked them to give me a job.
00:29:57And they started me as a junior barber and I've never looked back.
00:30:02What do you make of men?
00:30:04What do I make of men?
00:30:05I mean, most of my best friends are men.
00:30:10My partner is a woman, so I don't love them in that way.
00:30:13I'm just thinking in terms of like all these men coming into you.
00:30:18And I guess you're, you're minding them in a sense that you're getting them ready for, to go outside with
00:30:27a new haircut.
00:30:28But also you're, I guess they're talking to you and you're getting to see maybe similarities between different types of
00:30:35men or the stuff, the stuff, the kind of stuff that bothers them.
00:30:38I think, to be honest, I think that was one of the biggest things were having that one chair space.
00:30:43I think a lot of men, you know, I'm in a very grateful and beautiful position where a lot of
00:30:50my clients really trust and, you know, I've built amazing relationships with them.
00:30:53A lot of them have become my best friends.
00:30:55I'd happily go for a point with every single one of my clients.
00:30:58But I think, you know, there is this kind of almost putting this wall up when guys are in a
00:31:08room together, you know, you see it all the time where it's like this kind of bravado-ness.
00:31:12And I think your barber, for a lot of people, your barber is a lot of the time the person
00:31:17that you can confide into, you know.
00:31:19I've been the first to hear about weddings or engagements or divorces or babies or, you know, like issues when
00:31:28they haven't been able to have a child, like deep issues.
00:31:31And I think giving a safe space of that one chair initially was so important, especially at that time when
00:31:38we came out of such an isolating space because people were going through so much.
00:31:43I unfortunately lost a few friends in that space and it was because they didn't have people to talk to.
00:31:49Tell us about the soccer.
00:31:51So, yeah, obviously spotted and talented in your teens.
00:31:57Yeah.
00:31:57And then what happens?
00:31:58Yeah, I played like, you know, I grew up in Blanchard Sound and we used to just play football all
00:32:04day on the streets, all day.
00:32:06Two jumpers there just playing on the streets.
00:32:08That's all we did.
00:32:09It was beautiful, magical.
00:32:11And there was always competition.
00:32:13But like, you know, it was incredible to have that journey.
00:32:17And then actually, as I got older, I remember when I was told I can't play for the boys' team
00:32:22anymore.
00:32:23I played for Verona FC and they said, OK, you have to go to a women's team now.
00:32:26And I actually was like, what?
00:32:29Women can't play football, you know, like just being a kid and not knowing.
00:32:33That's fantastic.
00:32:33I'm not playing with a bunch of women.
00:32:35Yeah, I'm not playing with the girls.
00:32:36They can't even play football.
00:32:37And then, boy, was I wrong.
00:32:38I went to Rohini United and back in the day it was some of the most incredible players I've ever
00:32:43played with.
00:32:45So, I continued and I played all the way through secondary school.
00:32:49And academically, I wasn't too into a lot of subjects.
00:32:54I love to chat.
00:32:55I love to travel.
00:32:56I love music, culture.
00:32:58My mum was an artist, so always brought me up around like a lot of music and things like that.
00:33:06And I was pretty headstrong and pretty confident.
00:33:08And I kind of had this idea and I watched Bend It Like Beckham, as did a lot of females
00:33:14who played football growing up.
00:33:15And I watched that and I was like, that would just be the dream.
00:33:18But I didn't actually think it was a possibility.
00:33:20And I remember there was this course I found out about in Klaascha Ida at the time, which was like
00:33:26a football course.
00:33:27I think there was 47 boys and six of us girls.
00:33:30And then there was a match for the boys and the girls were slotted in.
00:33:38And we weren't really, we didn't really realise, but there was actually a lot of coaches over there from America
00:33:43who were scouting at the time.
00:33:45And after that match, I don't know, something came over me and I played pretty well that game.
00:33:50And I got offered a couple of scholarships off the back of that game.
00:33:55And I literally remember coming home.
00:33:58I had chatted with all of them.
00:33:59There was one from Chicago.
00:34:01There was a college in Carolina's.
00:34:03There was a college and a college in Georgia.
00:34:06And I remember coming home and just looking at a map and just going, what's the furthest south to get
00:34:11me away from the rain?
00:34:13And picking Georgia.
00:34:14And I went to Georgia.
00:34:15But then I got off the plane in August to do pre-season for three weeks.
00:34:21And it was about 30, mid-30s.
00:34:24And I don't know if you've ever been to Georgia, but the humidity was just disgusting.
00:34:29And I just remember thinking, getting off the plane and just thinking, what have I done?
00:34:33Like, but, you know, you acclimatise pretty soon.
00:34:36And you're going over on your own?
00:34:37I'm going over on my own.
00:34:38Yeah, I'm going over on my own.
00:34:40So I actually flew over on my birthday.
00:34:44And I remember just crying the whole way over and just going, what am I doing?
00:34:47Like, this is madness.
00:34:4919 or 20?
00:34:49I was, at the time, I was turning 19.
00:34:53Yeah.
00:34:54What was the scholarship part of it?
00:34:57So I was lucky enough where I got basically a full ride.
00:35:02So a full ride means, like, everything included.
00:35:04So I got my academic tuition, which actually in my school, the school I went to was about, it was
00:35:10crazy.
00:35:11It was something like, I think it was like 68,000 a year or a term.
00:35:15The school, the college universities are crazy over there.
00:35:19So I got that.
00:35:21I got my board.
00:35:23So I got my accommodation.
00:35:24I got a food allowance.
00:35:26I got books.
00:35:28She must have been good.
00:35:29Yeah, I was all right.
00:35:30I was all right.
00:35:31But for me, to be honest, the academics, as much as it was, the scholarship was about the academics,
00:35:37I didn't even think about the academics.
00:35:38I didn't even care about it.
00:35:40I just wanted to play football.
00:35:41And that was my way of playing football, you know.
00:35:43Was it a good place for a young gay woman to be?
00:35:47No.
00:35:48It was Georgia.
00:35:51So why was it not a good place?
00:35:53You know, I was in a bubble, I think.
00:35:55And you are in a bubble in them things.
00:35:57You're in a bubble with your international students and your soccer team and your friends.
00:36:00But I think, you know, Georgia is exactly what you read about Georgia.
00:36:05You don't mention money, politics and religion and you're all good.
00:36:09But mention those things and it gets a bit tricky.
00:36:10And I think being gay obviously wasn't ideal to a lot of the people who are from that town.
00:36:21And, you know, we had this programme which actually helped me out a lot because, as I said previously, I
00:36:27broke my leg in a tackle, which kind of ended my journey there.
00:36:31But I broke my leg and had to go through the surgeries and had to go through everything in Georgia
00:36:36on my own.
00:36:37And my mum couldn't get over to see me and my family couldn't get over.
00:36:41We just couldn't financially afford it.
00:36:44So I did all the surgeries and everything on my own and was it not for the people in that
00:36:50town?
00:36:51I don't know how I would have got through that, you know, they opened their doors, they looked after me.
00:36:56But a lot of these programmes were actually run by the church.
00:37:00Can you tell us about the tackle?
00:37:02Yeah, yeah, it was a playoff game.
00:37:04It was my second year in, so it was one of the last games of the season.
00:37:08And I'd suffered from shin splints a little bit throughout the season.
00:37:12The ground in Georgia was really hard and obviously, growing up in Ireland, you're used to have very soggy, soft
00:37:17pitch.
00:37:18And it was the first four minutes of the game and a girl broke through the defensive line.
00:37:23But I was able to get back and I caught up with her.
00:37:26And I slid in and I got the ball and the ball went out, but hadn't she followed through with
00:37:30her shot?
00:37:31And she followed through right on my leg and my leg completely snapped.
00:37:35Tibia and fibia, about four places.
00:37:40It was like a gunshot going off.
00:37:42It was a playoff game, so there was loads of family members around.
00:37:45To be honest, you go in a blur when something like that happens.
00:37:48I remember screaming.
00:37:50And the way she landed was like on the other half of my foot.
00:37:54So it was painful, as you can imagine.
00:37:56And I remember a couple of people around me screaming.
00:38:00And then the coach came over and for some reason decided to lift me, which obviously, as you know, you
00:38:08shouldn't really do that.
00:38:10Lifted me up and my toe basically was the other side and just dangled.
00:38:16And I felt it.
00:38:17And the ambulance came, took me in.
00:38:20At the time of the time difference, I think it was like a game that was around midday.
00:38:23So they were trying to get in touch with my mum to bring me straight into surgery to try and
00:38:29put a rod in it and plate it.
00:38:31But they couldn't get in touch with my mum.
00:38:33They just couldn't.
00:38:34Did they need her permission or something?
00:38:35They needed her permission.
00:38:36I was underage.
00:38:37I was 20 at the time.
00:38:39So you had to be 21 to be able to.
00:38:41And none of the Christians could do it.
00:38:43None of the Christians could do it, unfortunately.
00:38:48So it was kind of all a blur from that moment.
00:38:51But I had those families that were sitting with me.
00:38:53I had teammates.
00:38:55Eventually we got in touch with my mum.
00:38:57We actually got in touch with my cousin first.
00:39:01And if I look back on it now, it's a blur.
00:39:03When did the people who offered you the scholarship say, you can't do this anymore?
00:39:10So I actually tried to recover.
00:39:13My backbone broke.
00:39:15But it fused to only one side of my foot.
00:39:17So still to this day, it's not secure to the top part.
00:39:22So I get sometimes nerve issues in my leg and stuff.
00:39:25It's fine.
00:39:26I run and I'm still active.
00:39:28So it's not bad.
00:39:29But you kind of get used to it.
00:39:31But I remember the first time I tried to kick a football.
00:39:34And I was just like, this isn't what it was or what I had.
00:39:39And the college actually still offered me to pay for my scholarship.
00:39:49And I think at that stage, when the realization came in, I came home for Christmas and I just turned
00:39:55to my mum and I just said, I'm not getting back on that plane.
00:39:57I really don't want to get that.
00:39:59It was like a dread, you know.
00:40:00It was like, and I didn't know what I was going to do.
00:40:03And I didn't know where I was going to go.
00:40:05And I needed to be home.
00:40:07Like, my mental state was like, you know, I was just hurt.
00:40:11I was gone through trauma.
00:40:12I was hurt.
00:40:13I was kind of a little bit angry.
00:40:16But I knew that I was ready to find my next chapter.
00:40:22I was ready to settle back into Ireland and think about the next plan and the next project.
00:40:28You said your mum is an artist.
00:40:30Yeah.
00:40:32What has watching the development of her work as you were growing up and as an adult, what have you
00:40:43noticed or what did you take from it?
00:40:45I think, you know, my mum is, she'll kill me for saying artist even, but she is an artist.
00:40:52She's done art her whole life.
00:40:54But she's also worked in community a lot.
00:40:56She's worked in community development.
00:41:00You know, growing up in Blanchiseown as a single parent, she's always taught us, me and my older sister, that
00:41:06we can literally do anything.
00:41:07Just make sure you're passionate about it and you're happy in what you do and let the rest follow.
00:41:11You know, even being in Barbara and I realised that there's elements of everything that I was probably surrounded by,
00:41:19but in a very different way.
00:41:22You know, like the first time I took up a clippers, I immediately found it easy because I was like,
00:41:28oh, fading is like shading on a piece of paper.
00:41:30So it just made sense.
00:41:32So with all that, like how did the researchers for this show hear about you?
00:41:37Like what, what, what puts you into their vision?
00:41:43I am, I'm a groom and ambassador for Dior.
00:41:45So I work with Dior.
00:41:48I do session styling.
00:41:49I teach, I educate on stages around the world as well.
00:41:52So I've done seminars in Brazil, Moscow, Indonesia.
00:41:56Um, and I think it's just maybe an interesting story for them and for you.
00:42:02You, uh, I don't say this slightly, you're a remarkable, uh, woman and, uh, thank you very much for coming
00:42:10on to the show.
00:42:11Thank you for having me.
00:42:12It was lovely.
00:42:12It was great.
00:42:15Wow.
00:42:30Welcome back to the third half, everybody.
00:42:32Who's next, Freddie?
00:42:34Tommy, our next guest is Mr. Eamon Sweeney.
00:42:45Eamon, Tommy, how are you?
00:42:47Good to see you, fella.
00:42:50I, uh, I was standing near you in a bookshop recently.
00:42:54Were you?
00:42:55In Charlie Burns and Galway.
00:42:56You probably, you probably were actually, yeah.
00:42:58Yeah, uh, I didn't have the, uh, courage to go and say hello.
00:43:02How are you?
00:43:03Just as well.
00:43:03We might not have got on or something.
00:43:05Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:43:05There's time for that.
00:43:07How are you doing?
00:43:08I'm doing fine.
00:43:09I'm doing fine, you know.
00:43:10I'm doing, I'm doing good, you know.
00:43:12How do you spend the time?
00:43:14How do I spend the time?
00:43:16At the moment, uh, at the moment, I'm spending the time kind of wondering what I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm going
00:43:22to do next.
00:43:23I mean, I worked for 20 years writing the sports column for the Sunday Independent and I quitted a few
00:43:28weeks ago.
00:43:29So, and, uh, I've also moved out of the house where I've been living for years and I'm, so at
00:43:34the moment I'm kind of jobless and homeless.
00:43:36So at the moment I, I, I'm spending a lot of time wondering what I do next.
00:43:39What prompted the changes?
00:43:42What prompted the changes?
00:43:43Well, the, what prompted probably the, the, the, the house move was that the people where I was living wanted
00:43:48to sell the house.
00:43:49So, uh, I, I've been kind of loosed on the world.
00:43:52What prompted the other change was just, just before I was talking out money and stuff as, as you do
00:44:00with people and employ and I'd actually taken the dog on a walk up the bog road above Spiddle, which
00:44:06sounds like a euphemism, but I, you know, but, but, but I actually had taken the dog up the bog
00:44:11road above Spiddle.
00:44:11And I was up there and I, I realized, do you know, I'm, I've kind of, I'm sported out.
00:44:16I've written about the same thing for 37 years and I'm, and I'm just going to go and it all
00:44:22goes back, I suppose, to a book I wrote last year, which is about the fact that I've been doing
00:44:27the job and I've been kind of battling with this kind of mental illness for years and years and years.
00:44:31And eventually two years ago, it kind of lifted, but the odd thing was that as it lifted, I kind
00:44:37of realized, geez, I want to do other stuff with my life, you know, as kind of a new, new
00:44:43kind of horizon opened up.
00:44:45I thought, yeah, yeah, I feel like a new me.
00:44:47So maybe a new me should do new things, you know?
00:44:49What was the mental illness?
00:44:51Well, it was, it was a combination of things.
00:44:53It was largely a kind of a chronic anxiety, a really chronic anxiety, which meant that for 23 years, for
00:45:00example, I didn't leave the country.
00:45:02I went a decade, I think, without getting a train.
00:45:05I went years without even getting a bus.
00:45:07I think on one occasion I spent, I think I moved outside the county boundaries of Cork about once in
00:45:13six years.
00:45:15I mean, I was literally, I was pinned to the house almost, you know, it was a kind of a
00:45:20private lockdown.
00:45:21Do you know, I remember actually being relieved from COVID came in because I thought, well, now everyone's in this
00:45:26and nobody's going to be asking me, why aren't you going anywhere?
00:45:30Or, you know, because everyone was, you know, COVID was no change for me.
00:45:34And it was a bizarre, it was a bizarre thing.
00:45:36I'd been pinging along happily.
00:45:38And in 2000, I was going to a match in Killarney.
00:45:42And just as I was going in, I was hit by this incredible wave of panic, you know, which I'll
00:45:49never forget.
00:45:50And it kind of spiralled on from there, you know.
00:45:56And no idea what caused it?
00:46:00No, no, to be quite honest.
00:46:02I remember when I got out of the time, people talk more about mental health now, you know, including on
00:46:06this show.
00:46:06But at the time, it was pretty much a taboo.
00:46:09I mean, this came and hit me and my heart was racing and sweat was pouring down my face.
00:46:14And I was convinced that if I didn't get out of the place where I was, I was going to
00:46:19die.
00:46:20But I couldn't move.
00:46:21And, you know, no, all I could think of was I've gone mad.
00:46:26Do you know, like I said, there was no kind of talk about mental health or mental illness or anxiety
00:46:31or depression or anything.
00:46:32You're talking about, you know, 25 years ago.
00:46:34It was still very much a taboo.
00:46:36And all I could think was something that's after, something that's after breaking in me.
00:46:41And over the next few months, I was reduced from a guy who was Jack the Ladding at around the
00:46:45press boxes of the country to where I literally ended up.
00:46:48I used to sit out in a deck chair in the back garden of my house for the entire day.
00:46:55And then at night, I'd tip myself out of the chair and I'd crawl into the house and I would
00:47:00lie awake all night.
00:47:02It was hell, to be honest, you know.
00:47:05And were explanations, like when did you start seeking medical or professional help?
00:47:10I went to several doctors.
00:47:13I've been, I was to counsellors.
00:47:15I was to therapists.
00:47:17I was on various kinds of medication.
00:47:19I drank loads to forget it.
00:47:21I gave up drink.
00:47:23I got fit.
00:47:26I got unfit.
00:47:27And no matter what I did, it was still there.
00:47:30Like every, even when I was getting places, every outing was like an odyssey.
00:47:37Do you know what I mean?
00:47:37If we were to, let's say, go up from Cork to Galway to visit my mother, it would be, you
00:47:44know, Jesus, you know, stealing myself for days beforehand, you know.
00:47:48And I could plan nothing with the kids.
00:47:50We'd be about to go on something and I'd be, you know, can't do it, you know.
00:47:55Well, it's like every now and again you drop a detail that's so, it just expands the story.
00:48:01Like you had kids.
00:48:02Oh, yeah.
00:48:03I've three daughters, you know.
00:48:05And who have been terrific about it.
00:48:08It was just a thing that was in the family, you know, that this, you know, I was, you know,
00:48:15my other half were now separated.
00:48:18You know, she would, let's say, bring them to London or something to go to a show or whatever.
00:48:22But, you know, I'd be at home or, I mean, one of the greatest nights of my life was when
00:48:28about two years ago it cleared.
00:48:30Myself and my three daughters went up to see Wicked in the Bored Gas Energy Theatre.
00:48:34And for the first time we'd ever gone away for something together because really I wouldn't have trusted myself to
00:48:41have gone with them.
00:48:42Because I could throw, you know, the, you know, we might have got as far as Thurlis or Mallow and
00:48:49I'd have gone, no, no.
00:48:50Do you have memories of when you were a kid of being forced to do stuff that you didn't want
00:48:54to do?
00:48:56Being forced to do?
00:48:57No, we, like, we grew up, we grew up, I'd say, we were almost, it was more a kind of
00:49:03a hippie-ish kind of a do your own thing man.
00:49:06Whatever else my father was, he wasn't a disciplinarian.
00:49:10No, no, I don't think that, I don't think there was, Tommy, you know.
00:49:15It's like I've puzzled back through it.
00:49:17Sure, yeah, yeah.
00:49:18And I've gone through counsellors who've tried to root it in childhood trauma, but the childhood was fairly unremarkable.
00:49:24That is the thing that it was just like this thing that dropped on me out of the sky.
00:49:29I mean, at the time, I used to drink a bit, but then I gave up drink eight years ago
00:49:34and it made no difference.
00:49:36Do you know, I actually, at one stage I lost five or six stone and I was running 30 miles
00:49:44a week.
00:49:45No difference, didn't make a bit of difference, in fact, you know.
00:49:48No matter what I did, I was stuck with it and I had actually, just before, I mean, maybe it's
00:49:55a rock bottom thing.
00:49:56Just before I got over it, I had actually came home after one more disastrous outing, particularly bad one in
00:50:04Galway where I had probably the worst panic attack I ever had.
00:50:06I thought I was going into full-blown psychosis and I got home and I said, that's it, I'm never
00:50:11going out again, you know.
00:50:12I have, you know, like the line of, you know, I have my books and my poetry to protect me.
00:50:17I am a rock.
00:50:19I am an island.
00:50:20I'll settle for this.
00:50:21Do you know, this is the best I can do.
00:50:23I'm not unhappy and I wasn't unhappy except that this thing was, who said, you know, Douglas Copeland that I
00:50:31wrote Generation X said that in everyone's life there's something which is sucking, there's one thing that's sucking up 90
00:50:39% of their psychic energy or something.
00:50:41And this was the thing, this was the elephant in the room, you know, it was just this awful thing
00:50:48that was there.
00:50:49But I literally, just before I went, I just said, that's it, give up.
00:50:52Because I never stopped trying to go places, you know.
00:50:55You know, like I wasn't going anywhere, but I was buying a lot of bus tickets and train tickets and
00:51:00walking off platforms, you know.
00:51:02But then now, I'm two years away from it.
00:51:05I'm travelling away, you know.
00:51:07But the one bonus is, like, I got the train up yesterday from Galway to Dublin and it still had
00:51:12thrilled me to get off the, you know, platform of Houston.
00:51:15It's like, result, you know.
00:51:17Can you tell me about the writing then, about doing that column for 20 odd years and what that was
00:51:23like?
00:51:25I enjoyed it.
00:51:26I mean, I kind of ended up as kind of the accidental sports columnist.
00:51:31I mean, I, you know, I'd been a novelist back in the late 90s and, you know, people, somebody asked
00:51:40me to write a book about anything you want.
00:51:41I'd been a sports journalist back before that and I was just asked to write a column in the Indo
00:51:47and, you know, it kind of went on for there.
00:51:50And I did it for 20 years and I think I was reasonably good at it, you know.
00:51:54Tell us about the novels.
00:51:55The novels, well, the novels, the novels were called Waiting for the Healer and The Photograph.
00:52:00They were both published by Picador in London.
00:52:02Waiting for the Healer had a jaunt in America as well and it was in Germany under the name Vartnacht
00:52:08in Zeelandtrester.
00:52:09What? You wrote that?
00:52:10Yes.
00:52:12But the best crack is people are often saying to me, were you pleased with the German translation of it?
00:52:17And I thought, yeah, yeah, oh, you know, I felt it was a bit heavy on the umlauts, you know,
00:52:21but I got a jaunt to Berlin out of it.
00:52:24So I wrote those and in a way they came out in 97 and 2000 and I had the nervous
00:52:30breakdown in 2000.
00:52:31Yeah.
00:52:32And I was kind of unable to write fiction again.
00:52:36Like I think about those two books, they're not good books, but they're the books of someone who'd have been
00:52:40good if he kept going.
00:52:43And all through the vulnerability you were able to produce the sports column.
00:52:48Yeah, because it was often the only thing I could do, you know, I'd be in rag order, but I
00:52:54could, I could, I could get the shreds of myself together enough.
00:52:59I'd say I missed, I missed in 20 years, I'd say I missed one column for, for there was one
00:53:04year, I just, one week I just couldn't hack it.
00:53:07And, and I, I just thought, no, I can't face into this, you know.
00:53:11And were all the columns dependent on going to matches or sporting events?
00:53:13No, because there were kind of an overview thing of, of what was going on in the week.
00:53:17So it would have helped probably if I was going to stuff, but, but I think there was an allowance
00:53:22made for the fact that, you know, you couldn't have shifted me out of Sceberine with Dinoite, to be honest,
00:53:26you know.
00:53:27Yeah.
00:53:27But, but they tended to be more of a kind of a, I mean, that's the kind of thing I
00:53:30did.
00:53:30You're looking at an overview of things and, and, and so on.
00:53:34There weren't really match reports per se, you know.
00:53:36What makes you feel like you're better?
00:53:40Oh, well, well, well, well, the point about it was, I was at rock bottom.
00:53:46I had a terrible, terrible thing in Galway, really bad.
00:53:49I remember roaming around Galway, you know, talking to myself and thinking, this is it.
00:53:53You know, there's no, you know, the thing has not just bent, it's broken.
00:53:57And eventually.
00:53:58So that kind of a heightened state of yap and alert and.
00:54:02Yeah.
00:54:03Yeah.
00:54:03Yeah.
00:54:03I remember lepping off.
00:54:05There's this kind of a small train that goes from Galway to Limerick and I'm actually diving out the door
00:54:09of that.
00:54:10Cause I was like, you know, you know, really bad.
00:54:12And roamed around Galway for a couple of hours and thought I'd never get home.
00:54:16And eventually I got back to Cork after a fortnight, you know, I had to, I had to get a
00:54:21doctor to send me up medication.
00:54:22I went back to Cork, I think I got on and off bus for four times, you know, it was
00:54:27just a nightmare.
00:54:28And I was back about a week.
00:54:30And this woman, Ciara Constantine from the publisher, Hachette, rings me and said, hi, Eamon, you did a book for
00:54:35us, Road to Crooker, about following the GA 20 years ago.
00:54:38We were thinking there's about time there was a follow up.
00:54:41Are you on for it?
00:54:42And I was never more on for anything in my life, you know.
00:54:45And I, I gave her all these excuses and I was, well, you know, I have other projects on the
00:54:50go and dah, dah, dah, dah.
00:54:52But, but my daughter's actually said to me, well, maybe this is the thing you need.
00:54:57Maybe have one rattle at this.
00:54:59Yeah.
00:54:59And then if you fail, give up, but just do this, you know, take the money off her, do it
00:55:06week by week, see how it goes.
00:55:08So I got geared up for that.
00:55:10I went to doctor, I got medication, I went to counselling, I, you know, got all heaped up.
00:55:18And then I went to Galway over to Christmas and I was like, right, you know, here we go, you
00:55:23know.
00:55:24Do you now live in Galway?
00:55:26I don't want to live anywhere at the moment because I, before Christmas, the people of the house, I've been
00:55:36renting for, for, for years.
00:55:37I've, I've never owned a house and the people in the house that I was renting said they were going
00:55:42to sell it.
00:55:45And I can't, I can't find a place to live.
00:55:49So at the moment I'm kind of, it's like when you'd come back into Knock Airport in the 80s and
00:55:53you'd have to hover a bit while they waited for the fog to clear before you landed.
00:55:57I'm hovering in the fog at the moment.
00:55:59I'm kind of, you know, I'm out, I'm out in Spiddle spending some time with my mother, but the next
00:56:04move is I don't know where.
00:56:05I suspect the next move is, is abroad to be honest, because I, I literally, you know, you, you can't
00:56:10rent in this country anymore, you know.
00:56:13I just kind of think that if, if someone is doing their work, which you were doing, that, um, they
00:56:24should have a place to live.
00:56:25It's not like you were not working, not producing and not producing to a high standard.
00:56:30No, I've been working for, I've been working since, uh, I mean, I didn't even go to college.
00:56:34I mean, I've been, I've been working since I was 19, you know.
00:56:37Um, but you know, uh, yeah, I, I mean, it's just, uh, but I suppose I'm a single man now.
00:56:43Uh, nobody's going to give me a mortgage at this stage, but it's, it's just, oh no, the rent, the
00:56:47rental thing drives me nuts because I think it's been borne in on me over the last couple of years.
00:56:52How much you're regarded as a second class citizen.
00:56:55And, you know, you say to people you're renting and, and it, it, it, it regarded either as a, it's,
00:57:01as a kind of moral failing on your, on your part.
00:57:04And people don't realize that a lot of people haven't the options.
00:57:07There's a lot of people, there's a lot of people my age renting.
00:57:09Catherine Connolly brought it up that there's going to be a big crisis in a few years when all the
00:57:13people my age are suddenly not in a position to be knocking out 1,400 quid a month for rent.
00:57:19But, but the bottom line is in a way, the culprits are not really the landlords.
00:57:25The culprits are the fact that we should have more social housing in this country.
00:57:29And like the government attitude is, if you want, the government are always like, we'll give this incentive and we'll
00:57:33bring this bill and that'll bring supply on demand, perhaps down the line.
00:57:37But if you actually want to have houses and control them, the thing is to build them yourself.
00:57:42Do you know, if the government wants social housing, they'll have to build it.
00:57:45But of course, ideologically, their idea is that everything must be profit for private enterprise.
00:57:50But really, rather than giving tax breaks to developers and, and, and cozying up to landlords, build them yourself.
00:57:57Give people a decent house to live in, you know.
00:58:01How do you earn your living now?
00:58:03Well, that's a question.
00:58:04I mean, I only, I only, I only, I only, I only stopped a couple of weeks ago.
00:58:09I mean, I've got, I've got, I've got, I've got a, I got a few quid, which is enough to
00:58:14keep me going for a bit.
00:58:15But, you know, how do I earn my living?
00:58:19Well, what I'm, what I'm hoping is, before I wrote in sport, I wrote on books, I wrote in cinema,
00:58:24I wrote on music.
00:58:25I, I had a kind of almost another existence altogether.
00:58:28I wrote novels and, and I'm kind of hoping that I can get back into that.
00:58:33Even though, to be quite honest, it's a bad time.
00:58:36I mean, I was saying to, like, anyone I told what I was doing, they had two, there was two
00:58:41reactions.
00:58:42One was you're mad.
00:58:43And the second reaction was you're fucking mad.
00:58:45I mean, you know, it's just, it's not a good time to be out there.
00:58:48But, but then I thought to myself, I'm always saying to my kids, you know, well, you know, do what
00:58:53you want to do.
00:58:54Do, follow your dreams.
00:58:56Do the thing you want to do when you'll find someone to pay you first.
00:58:58And, and, and you'll be happy doing that.
00:59:01And I thought, well, maybe I should follow my own advice or, you know, or have I just been giving
00:59:07them a load of flannel?
00:59:08I mean, I'm kind of, I'm 58.
00:59:10There's also a thing too, that my father died when he was 59.
00:59:14His father died when he was 59.
00:59:16Uh, so I'm not being morbid about it, but I'm 58 now.
00:59:20I'm not saying I'm going to die next year, but, but you know, but if the Grim Reaper comes for
00:59:24me, I'd prefer,
00:59:25it's not when I'm writing another column, but the shortcomings of the Manchester United back four, you know?
00:59:29I mean, you know, why not give it, why not give it a rattle?
00:59:32I could, I, and I could be back, I could be, I could be back in a year's time saying,
00:59:37gee, lads, is there any, is there any GA coverage to be done?
00:59:40I mean, there's, there's, I've no great reason to believe there's anyone out there that'll give me work,
00:59:44but I've a year, you know, and, and, and thing could happen in a year.
00:59:48So, so what I'm living on at the moment is, is, is, is, is, uh, is the few quid I
00:59:53got from the Indo when I,
00:59:54do you, uh, I mean, we have to wrap up now, but it sounds, um, I mean, there's a kind
01:00:06of authenticity to it, Eamon, isn't there?
01:00:08Of, I used to do that, but this is what I've always wanted to do.
01:00:13And, you know, I am where I am.
01:00:17I don't have much, uh, but I am going to do this.
01:00:20Yeah, I mean, you know, I, I'm going to give it, I'm going to give it a rattle and see,
01:00:25and see, and, and, and see how it comes out.
01:00:28Rather than, rather than being the guy, the, the, the thing in GA, you know, there's a great figure in,
01:00:33in the GA team,
01:00:34the man who could have, who could have been played for the county, but he wasn't bothered.
01:00:37I don't want to be the guy, you know, I don't want to be there in five years,
01:00:40having written for sport about five more years and saying, ah, there was a novel in me, but, you know,
01:00:44I, I couldn't do it.
01:00:46You know, because let's say you take a guy like Mike McCormack.
01:00:48I mean, I, you know, I, I respect them and I, I love that man and his work, but, you
01:00:53know, Mike put in the hard yards, you know,
01:00:55he, he devoted himself to writing and he said, this is what I do.
01:00:59And I mean, you know, there was a time I did that in my twenties and I want to do
01:01:03it again now in my fifties, you know.
01:01:07Good luck with it, fella.
01:01:08Thank you, now I, are we off?
01:01:11It was a pleasure talking to you.
01:01:12Hands yourself off, it's a good crack, I didn't lose the time on our talk.
01:01:18And now, ladies and gentlemen, to play us out, it's the Olympia Quartet performing Florence Price's Juba.
01:01:27Thank you, let's do it.
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