Dateline NBC- S2026 E9 The Gorge

Fleebag

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Transcript

00:00:02Tonight on Dateline.

00:00:04Alice was the youngest.

00:00:05We are a really tight family.

00:00:08I just got this text message.

00:00:10Do you know where Alice is?

00:00:12She's missing.

00:00:13Yes.

00:00:14I feel I couldn't breathe.

00:00:16They hired an investigator.

00:00:18They were putting up rewards.

00:00:19They're doing everything they could do.

00:00:21She cannot just disappear.

00:00:22Something was going on.

00:00:23She's carrying a secret around.

00:00:25A very big one.

00:00:26She got married.

00:00:27She had a husband.

00:00:29He just blew our mind.

00:00:30He was a very successful Silicon Valley player.

00:00:34He said Alice is fine.

00:00:35She's in Taiwan.

00:00:36They found out she entered Taiwan.

00:00:39And she never left.

00:00:43What a perfect place to disappear, right?

00:00:46You potentially had a crime scene somewhere in this national park.

00:00:50And it is massive.

00:00:52You were smack in the middle of a true crime mystery.

00:00:55I know.

00:00:56That you never asked to be a part of.

00:00:58No.

00:00:59There was a creepiness to him.

00:01:01I came away thinking he reminded me of Hannibal Lecter.

00:01:04How could such a person do such a horrible thing to my sister?

00:01:09A life full of secrets and a frantic search an ocean away.

00:01:13What had happened to Alice?

00:01:16I'm Lester Holt.

00:01:17And this is Dateline.

00:01:26Here's Andrea Canning with The Gorge.

00:01:40Here's Andrea Canning with The Gorge.

00:01:58Alice, come home with The Gorge.

00:02:09Alice, come home with me.

00:02:12Alice, come home with me.

00:02:13Little did you know you'd be traveling thousands of miles away to try to find your sister.

00:02:18Nobody saw that coming.

00:02:21Nobody saw that coming.

00:02:21Just wish there would be this miracle that we actually would find her.

00:02:25Alice was still alive when she had no idea.

00:02:26Everything just went silent.

00:02:27This person is just gone.

00:02:30Vanished from the face of the earth.

00:02:32Yes.

00:02:34She didn't tell anyone, and she didn't even tell me.

00:02:37Alice Koo was a woman of mystery.

00:02:41And at the center of it all, a man with a complicated past and a reputation for brilliance.

00:02:47He also has the reverse Midas touch, if you will. Everything he touches dies.

00:02:57It all started about a week after Thanksgiving in 2019.

00:03:02Grace Koo was out with her daughter when her phone buzzed.

00:03:06I just got this text message. Do you know where Alice is?

00:03:10And I'm like, who's this? Because I thought maybe it was a scam.

00:03:16Alice Koo is Grace's youngest sister.

00:03:18Alice was 37 and lived in Sunnyvale, just south of San Francisco,

00:03:22working as a private tutor for students from elementary to high school.

00:03:26The person wrote, I am so-and-so's mother, and Alice is my son's tutor,

00:03:33and she missed two tutoring classes, which is not like her.

00:03:38I'm like, that's very weird.

00:03:40Did you know that Alice would never blow off a tutoring session? That's her business.

00:03:46Yeah, I know she would never do that.

00:03:48If she had to go somewhere or sick, she would definitely let her students know.

00:03:55Grace sent a message to her large family.

00:03:58The oldest of the six siblings, Josephine, who also lived in Northern California,

00:04:03happened to be in Taiwan visiting their parents.

00:04:06It seems like no one knew where she was.

00:04:08So do you start a chain, like with, you have so many siblings.

00:04:11Is everyone calling each other or texting and saying,

00:04:13hey, do you know where Alice is? Have you heard from her?

00:04:18For Josephine, this was now the second red flag.

00:04:21Alice's birthday had come and gone just days earlier.

00:04:25I texted her happy birthday, and there was no reply.

00:04:29And I find it strange.

00:04:32Would she ever not reply to you?

00:04:34The longest, probably just a few days, but not like this.

00:04:37This is all just not normal.

00:04:40That was alarming.

00:04:41Something was going on.

00:04:43Their sister, Monica, who lived nearby, offered to check on Alice at her apartment.

00:04:48But when she got there...

00:04:49The apartment was dark.

00:04:51It was dark, so no one was home.

00:04:54The siblings realized it had been nearly two weeks since anybody had heard from Alice.

00:05:00We knew that we had to get authorities involved.

00:05:03This is getting serious now.

00:05:05Very serious.

00:05:06Like, what is going on?

00:05:07Their brother, George, contacted the Sunnyvale police to help locate Alice.

00:05:13And what do the police say?

00:05:14Can they help find her?

00:05:16They could not.

00:05:17They said she was an adult.

00:05:18She has the right to disappear.

00:05:23She has the right to not contact anyone.

00:05:26That's not what you want to hear.

00:05:28Exactly, and it's just odd.

00:05:31Officers conducted a welfare check at Alice's apartment.

00:05:34That's when they discovered something concerning.

00:05:37She moved out half a year ago.

00:05:39Didn't tell anybody.

00:05:40No, and she didn't even tell me.

00:05:41That was very mysterious, and something must have happened.

00:05:45George filed a missing persons report.

00:05:48Without her address, Alice's family didn't even know where to start searching.

00:05:53So we were like, okay, this is becoming really scary.

00:05:56Didn't show up to her classes and was not in their apartment.

00:06:00We were like, what is going on?

00:06:03Are we, like, in a different reality now?

00:06:06This is, like, the beginning of a mystery that your family is following.

00:06:09Yeah.

00:06:10And we were really confused.

00:06:12We were also very frightened.

00:06:15The family would launch its own investigation, and clues were about to pop up that would bring them closer to

00:06:22the truth.

00:06:24Alice's red Honda Civic was in the parking lot, and then the sign on the door said, welcome home, Alice.

00:06:28I love you.

00:06:31Obviously, there's someone else involved now, because you don't write a sign like that to yourself.

00:06:36Every corner we turn, there's another door, and we open that there's another door.

00:06:41You are smack in the middle of a true crime mystery.

00:06:44I know.

00:06:45That you never asked to be a part of.

00:06:47No.

00:06:49No.

00:07:04The Coup family was in disbelief.

00:07:06Their little sister, Alice, wasn't returning their calls or texts, and it cleared out of her apartment.

00:07:11She just disappeared.

00:07:14With nowhere to turn, the family sprang into action.

00:07:18We put posters of her picture and contact information all around where she worked.

00:07:24You're taping them?

00:07:25Around Sunnyvale.

00:07:26Yes.

00:07:27Is that just a surreal experience, when you're putting posters of your own sister?

00:07:32Yes, because that's something you see of other people, but not of your sister.

00:07:37Behind those missing persons flyers was a personal story about the youngest sister growing up in a tight-knit household.

00:07:46You have a family close to my heart.

00:07:48With your siblings, I have five girls and a boy.

00:07:51Just like your family has five girls and a boy.

00:07:54What was that like with all of you growing up, and where did Alice fit in?

00:07:58Well, five girls.

00:07:59Yeah.

00:08:01As you can imagine, it's a bit chaotic, right?

00:08:05She was the youngest.

00:08:09Of course, being the youngest, you want all the attention.

00:08:13Josephine, being the oldest, took that to heart.

00:08:17Were you kind of like her little mommy?

00:08:19Yes, that was right.

00:08:33Alice and her siblings were all born in Taiwan in the city of Taoyuan, an hour outside of Taipei.

00:08:40In 1989, amid rising political tension with China, the Ku family moved to Fiji.

00:08:47Grace remembers those island years as a magical time with her siblings.

00:09:13A few years later, the family crossed the Pacific again, this time for San Jose in Northern California.

00:09:20So we came here, and it was a cultural shock.

00:09:24Because in our mind, we thought, like, California is like Coca-Cola commercial.

00:09:30Yeah.

00:09:32While it could be overwhelming, Grace says Alice, a shy nine-year-old, adapted quickly with the steady presence of

00:09:38her older siblings.

00:09:40I went to Academy of Art University, so I would come home on the weekends, and Alice and I will

00:09:46be making some banana nut bread together.

00:09:49Banana bread?

00:09:50Yeah.

00:09:50She loves squishing the banana in her hands.

00:09:53She's like, ooh, it feels so, um, I'm not sure if I can say it.

00:09:58She's like, it feels like poop.

00:10:00So we'll have a good laugh about it.

00:10:02In the Ku household, education came first, but Josephine remembers high school was a real challenge for Alice.

00:10:10Alice had to rely on tutors in high school.

00:10:12In high school, yes, she struggled with math, so she knew how difficult that could be.

00:10:18That inspired Alice herself to want to help other kids, right?

00:10:22Yes.

00:10:23After studying political science and English in college, Alice launched her own tutoring business.

00:10:29She knew how important it is to have a mentor, help children, going through the difficulty of school,

00:10:36which is very interesting because in my mind, time freezes.

00:10:40Like, I feel she's still 12.

00:10:42It's like, whoa, when does she have the patience to help others?

00:10:47Grace says Alice was supporting herself, and with some help from her parents,

00:10:51she moved into her own apartment in Sunnyvale.

00:10:53Were you proud of your sister for doing it, for trying to make it on her own?

00:10:59Yes, definitely. Very proud.

00:11:02Even though the family stayed in touch with Alice through texts and regular lunches,

00:11:06they had no idea where she was.

00:11:08And you're checking in with the police, and they've got no updates for you?

00:11:12Nothing.

00:11:13That's when we knew that we have to hire a private detective to help us.

00:11:18They landed on Andrew Waters, a civil attorney with experience in investigations.

00:11:23That's going to be a shock to the system when this is your loved one,

00:11:27and she's no longer living where she's supposed to be living.

00:11:30Yes, very concerning for the family, and it was a complete shock to them because it was so unlike her.

00:11:34So she just up and moved without telling anyone?

00:11:37Yes.

00:11:38The same day he was hired, the investigator launched a creative legal strategy.

00:11:43Asked the court to appoint a conservator for Alice's affairs until she could be located.

00:11:48With this conservatorship, you're able to just really dive into everything that was Alice Koo.

00:11:54Yes, it really helps us get additional leverage to obtain documents

00:11:58that the police might not be able to obtain rapidly.

00:12:02Meanwhile, Alice's brother George did a little detective work of his own

00:12:06and took an out-of-the-box approach to track down his sister's new address.

00:12:11The family reached out to PG&E, the utility company,

00:12:13and said, do you have any accounts under this social security number?

00:12:17PG&E responded that the address had the numbers 1725.

00:12:221725.

00:12:23That was it.

00:12:24They gave us the house number, that's it.

00:12:26And I open up Google, and I look at the map for Sunnyvale,

00:12:30and I start typing in 1725.

00:12:33And the first thing that comes up is 1725 Wright Avenue.

00:12:37The address was an apartment complex,

00:12:40located about a 15-minute drive from Alice's old apartment.

00:12:43When Andrew Waters arrived, he noticed something right away.

00:12:48Alice's red Honda Civic was in the parking lot.

00:12:51You knew to be on the lookout for a red Honda Civic?

00:12:54George had given me her car information.

00:12:56Okay, so right away, this is jumping out at you?

00:12:58This is immediately getting some results,

00:12:59and I noticed it was caged with a big layer of dust

00:13:02with tutoring books in the back seat.

00:13:04Next, he tracked down Alice's apartment unit.

00:13:07No one was home, but there was a sign on the door.

00:13:12It said, welcome home, Alice, I love you.

00:13:14The paper was weathered, and it was a little bit ragged.

00:13:17And obviously, there's someone else involved now,

00:13:20because you don't write a sign like that to yourself.

00:13:23Right.

00:13:24But Alice's siblings had no idea who that could be.

00:13:28They thought she was single.

00:13:30So she's carrying a secret around.

00:13:32Mm-hmm.

00:13:33A big one.

00:13:34A very big one.

00:13:49Alice's siblings and their investigator, Andrew Waters,

00:13:52had followed a trail right to Alice's new apartment

00:13:55where they found that sign on her door.

00:13:57But they had no idea who was professing their love to her.

00:14:00So this is a gentleman that you're now looking for,

00:14:04are you thinking?

00:14:05Someone that she's in a romantic relationship with?

00:14:08Yes, and it was a flurry of news all at once.

00:14:11The investigator and Alice's brother, George,

00:14:14went door to door asking neighbors

00:14:15if anyone had seen Alice recently,

00:14:17or if she was living with anyone.

00:14:19They were able to talk to the neighbor next door.

00:14:22And the neighbor was saying,

00:14:25oh, yes, Alice have a husband.

00:14:28We're like, what, what?

00:14:31It was the first time we heard, like, she got married.

00:14:34She had a husband.

00:14:36It just blew our minds.

00:14:38And where's the husband?

00:14:40And who's the husband?

00:14:41Yeah, nobody knew.

00:14:43We were all in shock.

00:14:45Josephine was the closest to Alice among the siblings.

00:14:47But like many families,

00:14:49life got busy as they got older.

00:14:51And Josephine says the sisters

00:14:53didn't always share everything about their personal lives.

00:14:55Still, this was different.

00:14:59I thought she trusted me,

00:15:01but apparently it was not enough for her to tell me.

00:15:04Then I thought back,

00:15:06she has so many chances to tell me.

00:15:09Because we got together so often,

00:15:11over lunch, over coffee.

00:15:14Josephine remembered a lunch date

00:15:15she had with Alice in California

00:15:17two years before she went missing.

00:15:20Something sparkly caught her eye.

00:15:22I saw her ring,

00:15:23her diamond ring,

00:15:25over lunch once.

00:15:27An engagement ring?

00:15:28Yes.

00:15:29Did you say to her,

00:15:30are you married?

00:15:31Are you engaged?

00:15:31No, I did not.

00:15:32I just asked,

00:15:33is it real, a real stone?

00:15:35And she said, no.

00:15:37So she turned the stone inward.

00:15:39And then I never saw that ring again.

00:15:42Now the family had to figure out

00:15:44who was Alice's secret husband.

00:15:47Her neighbors gave them a name.

00:15:49We got the name,

00:15:51first name and last name,

00:15:52Harold Hurchin.

00:15:54The neighbors said Dr. Harold Hurchin

00:15:57was older than Alice,

00:15:58and the couple had gone on a trip

00:15:59out of the country two weeks earlier.

00:16:02The neighbors said,

00:16:03oh, she went to Taiwan with her husband.

00:16:06So you had no idea,

00:16:07I'm assuming,

00:16:08that she was ever in Taiwan?

00:16:10No, we had no idea.

00:16:11She didn't tell anyone.

00:16:13This is a lot for this family.

00:16:15Not only did they not know

00:16:16where their sister is,

00:16:17but now they're finding out

00:16:18that she secretly got married.

00:16:21Yes, it's really a lot to process at once

00:16:23and lots of different directions

00:16:24to be pulled in.

00:16:26Do you do like just a classic

00:16:28Google search of Dr. Hurchin?

00:16:30I did.

00:16:31And what did it tell you?

00:16:32He was a prominent engineer

00:16:35at his company, Bloom Energy.

00:16:36When you say doctor,

00:16:38he's not a medical doctor,

00:16:39he's a PhD.

00:16:39He's a PhD.

00:16:40PhD in engineering from Stanford.

00:16:42Oh, very impressive.

00:16:44And he's been working

00:16:45at various material science companies

00:16:47for the last 30 years.

00:16:49And a number of patents.

00:16:5060 patents or something like that.

00:16:52Involving?

00:16:53The latest involve solar energy

00:16:55and material science.

00:16:56He's basically a Thanos level,

00:16:58or Tony Stark level super genius.

00:17:00Andrew Waters discovered Harold owned

00:17:02a few rental properties

00:17:03in the Bay Area.

00:17:04So he started knocking on doors,

00:17:06hoping one of Harold's tenants

00:17:07might know how to reach him,

00:17:09which brought him to this house

00:17:10in Palo Alto.

00:17:12Wearing a hidden camera

00:17:13to document the search,

00:17:14the investigator,

00:17:15along with Alice's brother

00:17:16and sister Monica,

00:17:18approached the door.

00:17:19December 2019,

00:17:20you get a knock at the door.

00:17:22Yeah.

00:17:22I was snuggled up on the couch

00:17:24drinking my morning coffee,

00:17:26knock at the door.

00:17:27I, you know,

00:17:28asked my husband to go check it out.

00:17:30Hello.

00:17:30Hi.

00:17:31This is Harold.

00:17:32No.

00:17:33Do you know a Harold Furchin?

00:17:35Yeah.

00:17:35Okay.

00:17:36Does he live here?

00:17:38No, he's the landlord.

00:17:39Oh, okay.

00:17:39You're the tenant.

00:17:40Yeah, you're the tenant.

00:17:42Bridget Buckley and her husband,

00:17:43Paul,

00:17:43had been renting the house

00:17:44from Harold for the past two years.

00:17:46My husband was like,

00:17:47listen, I'm not Harold.

00:17:48You came to my house.

00:17:50Who are you?

00:17:51And that's when I thought,

00:17:52well, this is interesting.

00:17:53What's going on?

00:17:54Let me go jump up.

00:17:55Walk to the front door.

00:17:57Can we ask what this is about?

00:17:58This is an unusual visit.

00:18:01Yeah, they said,

00:18:03well, it's a case of a missing woman.

00:18:04We're investigating the missing person's case.

00:18:07Where he's wife's siblings.

00:18:09His wife's siblings.

00:18:10And my wife's wife is missing.

00:18:12I thought this is so surreal.

00:18:15I was like, oh my gosh, wait, what?

00:18:17So they shared a flyer with her

00:18:19and they showed me a picture of Alice.

00:18:22So if you have any further questions

00:18:23or information, feel free to contact me.

00:18:25Okay, sure.

00:18:26Bridget's husband gave them Harold's email address.

00:18:29George wrote to him, but got no response.

00:18:31A few days later,

00:18:33the investigator returned to Alice's apartment complex

00:18:35where he spotted a man loading something into his car.

00:18:38I saw an older man who was along the larger side.

00:18:40I walked up to him and I said,

00:18:41excuse me, are you Dr. Hurchin?

00:18:43He said, yes.

00:18:43Bingo.

00:18:44What do you ask him?

00:18:45I said, I'm an attorney hired

00:18:47to investigate your wife's disappearance.

00:18:48Does he know where she is?

00:18:50I asked him that.

00:18:51And he said that she was in Taiwan.

00:18:53He said where they had stayed in Taiwan.

00:18:55And she was due back on or about December 7th.

00:18:59But it was now December 18th.

00:19:01Why wasn't she home?

00:19:03Harold said Alice wanted to travel on her own for a bit.

00:19:06There was nothing to worry about.

00:19:08Does he have any idea where she is and if she's okay?

00:19:11He says that she's been emailing him.

00:19:13And so he presumes that she's okay.

00:19:15She's just not coming home is the problem.

00:19:18He also said that he saw activity on her credit card and therefore he knows she's okay.

00:19:22Anything else in this conversation?

00:19:24It was about five minutes of conversation.

00:19:26So pretty brief.

00:19:27And I asked him where I could reach him if I need to ask him more questions.

00:19:30He said he would answer more questions.

00:19:33Alice's secret husband would give more details in the days to come,

00:19:37including where she might have gone.

00:19:39An email reportedly from Alice to Harold that said,

00:19:43Hello, handsome Harold.

00:19:45I got here okay.

00:19:46Please change my flight to a week later.

00:19:48Which would suggest that maybe she's okay.

00:20:06Investigator Andrew Waters had been working Alice's case for nine days when he had that brief encounter with Harold outside

00:20:12the apartment complex.

00:20:13It's very lucky and unexpected, but also really piqued our curiosity.

00:20:18He emailed Harold a list of questions.

00:20:22And Harold provided a written account of his trip with Alice.

00:20:25The narrative explained that they had gone on trips to Taiwan multiple times over the last couple of years.

00:20:30That this was one such trip that Alice had gone on with Harold.

00:20:33Talked about the plan for Alice and Harold to stay together in different parts of Taiwan.

00:20:37The investigator was particularly interested in an excursion Harold mentioned to Hualien City.

00:20:43They talked about their sightseeing trip after he was done with work assignments.

00:20:47What was the sightseeing trip?

00:20:49They went to Taroko Gorge National Park in Taiwan.

00:20:52Harold said the couple hired a driver.

00:20:54They arrived around noon and toured the park together.

00:20:57Then six hours later, Harold said the driver dropped Alice off at a nearby train station.

00:21:03Harold's last contact with Alice was at the train station in Hualien, Taiwan.

00:21:10According to Harold, Alice wanted to make the three-hour trip to visit her parents, who had moved back to

00:21:15Taiwan 12 years earlier.

00:21:17That could make a lot of sense.

00:21:19She's staying some extra days to go see her parents.

00:21:22The only problem is, did she arrive at her parents?

00:21:25That was the issue.

00:21:26The parents told us that she had not contacted them.

00:21:29Alice never made it to her parents' house.

00:21:31Even though Harold hadn't heard from her in a few weeks, he did provide something that gave the family hope

00:21:37that Alice was still traveling around Taiwan.

00:21:40An email, reportedly from Alice to Harold, that said, hello handsome Harold, I got here okay, please change my flight

00:21:48to a week later.

00:21:49Yeah, which would suggest that maybe she's okay.

00:21:53The email did suggest that she was okay.

00:21:55Did you think to yourself, maybe she willingly disappeared, that she does not want to be found?

00:21:59Yeah, I'm like, well, that could be the best-case scenario in this terrible situation.

00:22:05That she's alive, she just doesn't want us to see her.

00:22:07Yeah.

00:22:09In Taiwan, Josephine filed a missing persons report with the local authorities.

00:22:14Alice's family scrutinized every line of Harold's email, but something didn't seem right.

00:22:19So they brought in civil attorney Todd Davis to add more firepower to the team.

00:22:25What are you thinking when this family comes to you, and it's very early stages?

00:22:31Right, and I wasn't really sure they needed me.

00:22:34I usually come in after everything's blown up, and there's a real problem, and we're going to court.

00:22:38Did you think that was smart of the family to come to you that soon?

00:22:42I think they were just desperate.

00:22:43They wanted more information from Harold.

00:22:45And Harold's conduct was suspicious, but we didn't disbelieve what he had told us.

00:22:51The new attorney got up to speed and took a closer look at Harold.

00:22:55He learned Dr. Hurchin was born in Germany and raised in Canada.

00:22:59He went to the Canadian Military Academy, and then he got a master's degree in Canada.

00:23:05This is a guy with a brilliant mind.

00:23:07Sure.

00:23:07He's been very successful in what he did.

00:23:10The attorney discovered something that piqued his interest.

00:23:13Alice wasn't Harold's first wife.

00:23:17You find out that Alice is Harold's third wife.

00:23:19Correct.

00:23:20First wife, he divorced.

00:23:21Second wife died.

00:23:23She died of sleep apnea in June 2017.

00:23:28To the attorney, that was an unusual cause of death, and he made a note to look into it further.

00:23:34The widower, who had two children with his late wife, quickly moved on with Alice.

00:23:39He met Alice in June 2017 at the Rodan exhibit at Stanford University.

00:23:46Okay, sounds very romantic.

00:23:47Right.

00:23:48After just four months together, the two quietly married at the county clerk's office.

00:23:54Harold was 23 years older than Alice.

00:23:57They both worked.

00:23:58They traveled a lot.

00:24:00He traveled a lot for work, and she would go with him.

00:24:03The attorney discovered they'd been married for two years and were trying to launch a tutoring app together.

00:24:09This was the first Grace was hearing about any of this.

00:24:12He mentioned that Alice created an app for tutoring, and he helped finance her hiring the engineer to build this

00:24:23app for her.

00:24:23He's looking like the supportive husband.

00:24:26He's helping her fulfill her dream of helping other kids.

00:24:30That's what it sounded like.

00:24:33Why do you think Alice didn't want to tell your family that she had married Harold?

00:24:37That's a really good question, right?

00:24:40If you marry someone who's successful, can provide for you, and you can continue with your passion project, tutoring, why

00:24:47not tell your family?

00:24:48Going back to Alice's childhood, being the baby and maybe needing attention in this big family, did you think maybe

00:24:55Harold was the person who gave her that attention?

00:24:59I felt that's a possibility.

00:25:02Someone just gave you their full attention.

00:25:07So I feel that's most likely the case because of the age difference.

00:25:12Do you think maybe she thought that you wouldn't approve or your family wouldn't approve?

00:25:16Yeah.

00:25:18Since Alice was raised in a conservative Catholic household, Josephine thought that maybe Alice feared her family wouldn't accept that

00:25:25Harold had been divorced.

00:25:27You're Catholic, and please don't get divorced.

00:25:30Yeah, no divorce, right?

00:25:32But Alice always had her guard up, says Grace.

00:25:35Ever since she was a little girl, Alice kept many parts of her life private.

00:25:41She's the kind of person, no matter how hard you push, if she didn't want to share something,

00:25:46you could not push it out of her.

00:25:48She was a vault.

00:25:49Yes.

00:25:50The Ku family planned to open that vault,

00:25:55returning to the last place Alice visited.

00:25:58So she has to be in Taiwan.

00:25:59She had to be in Taiwan.

00:26:02She had to be in Taiwan.

00:26:16When the Ku family learned Alice had traveled to Taiwan and never returned,

00:26:20the search for their sister now spanned two continents.

00:26:23They moved quickly to come up with a plan.

00:26:26My brother in Taiwan even put a reward of one million Taiwan dollars for people to come forward.

00:26:32And here they put a Facebook page just to encourage anyone who has any information about Alice can come forward.

00:26:41But no one did.

00:26:43Grace says the siblings continued texting on the family thread they shared with Alice,

00:26:48hoping that she was simply hiding out.

00:26:51We also wrote like she was still reading this thread, saying,

00:26:55Hey, Alice, don't worry.

00:26:57Doesn't matter what happened.

00:26:58We are here for you.

00:26:59Just come.

00:27:00You are safe.

00:27:01You're just hoping and praying that she sees one of those text messages

00:27:05and it gets her to come forward and say,

00:27:08like, I'm ready for help.

00:27:09Yes, exactly.

00:27:12Alice's parents were also on that text thread.

00:27:15I don't know how my parents were handling it.

00:27:18We tried not to talk about it with our parents.

00:27:21Too upsetting.

00:27:22We were afraid.

00:27:23The last hope that were holding them, that would just break.

00:27:28Taiwanese police checked immigration records and had an update.

00:27:33They found out she entered Taiwan around Thanksgiving and she never left.

00:27:39So she has to be in Taiwan.

00:27:41She had to be in Taiwan.

00:27:42Did you feel like the Taiwanese police took you very seriously when you came in?

00:27:47Yes, they took it very seriously.

00:27:48Somehow this case moved up from local police to Criminal Investigation Bureau.

00:27:54CIB?

00:27:55Yeah.

00:27:56Taiwan's equivalent to the FBI.

00:27:58The case was gathering traction.

00:28:01Taiwanese news agencies picked up the story.

00:28:05Even the TV reported the case.

00:28:07So you're seeing it on the news?

00:28:09Yeah.

00:28:09It is very scary.

00:28:12Investigators didn't share much with the family.

00:28:14So Josephine started looking for answers herself.

00:28:18She took a three-hour train ride to the city of Hualien, where Harold said he last saw Alice.

00:28:23Never give up on her.

00:28:24No.

00:28:25Our team traveled to Taiwan and joined Josephine on that same train.

00:28:29On that particular journey, what were you hoping to accomplish?

00:28:34We actually hoped that we could find her just anywhere on the road or anything.

00:28:40We actually really hoped that we could spot something, her clothing or her bag or anything.

00:28:47Armed with a stack of missing persons flyers, Josephine walked through the city going business to business, asking if anyone

00:28:54had seen her sister.

00:28:55We put out flyers in Hualien City.

00:28:59Just whatever business we think, they would stop by, because there are a lot of tourists here.

00:29:06Is that just a feeling of helplessness or desperation when you're hitting the streets?

00:29:11Yes.

00:29:12There was no other ways we could do, because we knew her last spot was here in the city, in

00:29:20Hualien.

00:29:20Did anyone call you?

00:29:22No.

00:29:23Josephine returned home.

00:29:25A month later, she came back to Hualien with her sister Diana, this time widening their search in and around

00:29:31the city.

00:29:59Another dead end.

00:30:02So the sisters set out to the place where Harold said he and Alice went sightseeing on November 29th, to

00:30:08Rocco National Park, one of the most visited destinations in Taiwan.

00:30:12It's a stunning landscape of winding mountain roads and hiking trails.

00:30:17What is this park famous for?

00:30:19I think people are here for the scenery.

00:30:21People from Taiwan and people from overseas.

00:30:25All over the world.

00:30:26Yeah, that's right.

00:30:28The sisters had a friend drive them deep into the park.

00:30:31How many times did you stop?

00:30:33A lot in arbitrary spots where the driver, that was our local friend, where he thought it was a good

00:30:39spot to stop.

00:30:40And just trying to see if anything might catch your attention?

00:30:44Yes, it could be some distinctive color or some piece of her clothing or her bag or anything.

00:30:52It's like finding a needle in a haystack.

00:30:54Yes.

00:30:54We knew it was not possible, but we tried.

00:30:57You had to come.

00:30:58We have to try.

00:30:58You had to come.

00:30:59Yes.

00:30:59Was there that hope that maybe she's still alive?

00:31:03Maybe Alice is here in Taiwan?

00:31:05Yes, I have those wild imaginations.

00:31:10I was hoping like someone actually saw her and picked her up and maybe she lost her memory and maybe

00:31:17she couldn't find her way home.

00:31:19You just wanted to believe that she could be alive.

00:31:23That's right.

00:31:26As the coup siblings clung to the hope that Alice was off the grid, Taiwanese investigators were following their own

00:31:33trail, one that would soon raise more questions about Harold's story.

00:31:38You potentially had a crime scene somewhere in this national park, and it is massive.

00:31:45Yeah.

00:32:01Josephine traveled across Taiwan, searching everywhere she thought Alice could be, but she couldn't find any trace of her.

00:32:08You feel so helpless.

00:32:10It was, and it was so extremely sad.

00:32:14Extremely, and I cried my eyes out.

00:32:19Now she put her faith in the Taiwanese CIB investigators.

00:32:23Commander Raymond Su, then a squadron chief at the CIB, took the lead on the case.

00:32:28He started by retracing the couple's steps the day Alice went missing.

00:32:33Investigators knew she had been at the hotel that morning around 11 a.m. because of the timestamp from this

00:32:38selfie taken on her phone.

00:32:40Harold had said they rented a car and hired a local driver to take them on a sightseeing excursion.

00:32:46Taroko National Park.

00:32:48Taroko Park, yep.

00:32:49The family search came up empty, but when Commander Su went to the park, he was able to track the

00:32:54couple's movements.

00:32:55We're coming upon the entrance to the park.

00:32:58Yeah.

00:32:58So the entrance has a lot of CCTV here.

00:33:01His team looked for surveillance camera footage from the day Harold said he and Alice visited the park.

00:33:07They'd already identified the make and model of the car he'd rented, a white Volkswagen.

00:33:13This camera at the entrance of Taroko National Park captured the couple's white Volkswagen rental on video going into the

00:33:20park.

00:33:21They spotted the car driving into the park around noon, just as Harold said.

00:33:26Then they tracked cell phone data to see where the couple went once inside.

00:33:31Both of their phones pinged for hours high in the mountains near this remote coffee shop.

00:33:36Investigators spoke to the owners and shared Alice's photo.

00:33:40Did anyone see anything?

00:33:43He didn't see anything.

00:33:44Investigators could tell from surveillance video that several hours later, around 6 p.m., the couple's rental car exited.

00:33:51Could you see from the video inside the car?

00:33:54Could you see if it was two people going in, one person coming out or two people coming out?

00:34:00Could you tell?

00:34:01No, because the window is too dark.

00:34:03So our camera cannot make sure how many people in the car.

00:34:08Their next step was to track down the car after it left the park.

00:34:12Harold said the driver drove them to the train station because Alice planned to visit her parents in Taoyuan.

00:34:17What did you find when you visited the train station, as far as the investigation?

00:34:23Was there any evidence there?

00:34:24We have checked the train schedule.

00:34:27And at that time, there is no train.

00:34:30Go back to Taoyuan.

00:34:31Was there any surveillance video you could check at the train station?

00:34:34Yeah, the train station also have many cameras here.

00:34:38But we checked all the cameras cannot find the car.

00:34:43So Commander Hsu checked license plate readers around the train station, hoping to find the white Volkswagen.

00:34:49Again, no luck.

00:34:51He widened the search area and looked at more license plate readers.

00:34:56Then, a hit on the rental at this fork in the road.

00:35:00Right here?

00:35:00Yeah, this course road is important.

00:35:02One way goes toward the train station, the other toward the couple's hotel.

00:35:06The reader showed that Harold's rental car didn't go to the station.

00:35:10It headed in the direction of the hotel.

00:35:12This is really big in this investigation because he has said that's why she's not here, because she went to

00:35:18the train station.

00:35:19But you don't think she went there at all?

00:35:21Yeah, right.

00:35:22And the couple's phone records confirmed that hunch.

00:35:25We also checked the cell phone records and cell phone signal.

00:35:31They didn't touch the telephone power in the train station.

00:35:35Near the train station.

00:35:36So there was no ping near the train station.

00:35:38Yeah, so we think he goes straight to the hotel.

00:35:42In fact, investigators found that the couple's cell phones pinged at the hotel that evening.

00:35:47They also tracked down their white Volkswagen rental and did a forensic sweep.

00:35:51There's no blood in rental car.

00:35:54Oh, you got the rental car?

00:35:56Yeah, we got the rental car.

00:35:57No evidence of a body, a dead body being in the rental car.

00:36:00Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

00:36:01For Commander Sue, the picture was becoming clear.

00:36:05Even though Alice's phone pinged at the hotel, investigators didn't think she ever made it there.

00:36:10They believe Harold kept her phone.

00:36:13To them, the most likely scenario was that something happened to her at the park.

00:36:17Alice may have fallen or been pushed.

00:36:20You potentially had a crime scene somewhere in this national park.

00:36:25And it is massive.

00:36:27Yeah, right.

00:36:28The national park area is very big.

00:36:39You can see how rugged the terrain is here.

00:36:42The cliffs are steep, the rivers are fast moving, and the weather can change in an instant,

00:36:47making any search and rescue operation here extremely difficult.

00:36:51The search and rescue team thinks it's maybe somewhere near the coffee shop that she was pushed over.

00:36:59Yeah, because they stayed a long time here.

00:37:02They stayed a long time at the coffee shop.

00:37:04Yeah.

00:37:06So investigators deployed search and rescue teams to scour the park, focusing in on that area near the coffee shop.

00:37:13But they found no signs of her.

00:37:16For Josephine, reality was setting in.

00:37:19People actually, they fall down to the gorge and never found.

00:37:25This happens there.

00:37:25You see news stories of people.

00:37:27Yes, this happened every year.

00:37:29Did you think that maybe something happened and she fell, or worse, she was pushed?

00:37:35Something must have happened there, because Mr. Urchin lied, apparently.

00:37:40He lied about they came out of the Taroko Gorge, and he dropped her off at the train station.

00:37:47What else was Harold lying about?

00:37:50And back in California, questions were surfacing about his past wife.

00:37:54She died in that home we were living in.

00:37:57It gives me goosebumps to think about it right now.

00:38:15By April of 2020, Alice had been missing for five months.

00:38:19Her family's search in Taiwan left them with more questions than answers.

00:38:23But they weren't giving up.

00:38:25We still believe maybe she was hiding somewhere.

00:38:29Her sister Grace had grown increasingly suspicious of Harold.

00:38:33She says from the beginning, he didn't seem to care that Alice was missing.

00:38:37He barely spoke to the family and only exchanged a few emails.

00:38:41He just said, oh, Alice's still in Taiwan, and I haven't seen her, blah, blah, blah.

00:38:47I don't know where she is now.

00:38:48That's all he said.

00:38:50And then my brother said, well, can we just collaborate and look for her together, put our resources together, right?

00:38:57And he just said, oh, I already put a lot of money in to try to get her back.

00:39:01But there was no evidence of it.

00:39:04And something else troubled the family.

00:39:06It happened early in the investigation, right after Andrew Waters had that chance encounter with Harold in the parking lot.

00:39:12But within that day, between volunteering to answer more questions, within that day, he hired a criminal defense attorney.

00:39:19That seems quick and maybe a little odd.

00:39:24Pretty suspicious.

00:39:25Pretty suspicious.

00:39:26Yeah.

00:39:27I mean, lawyering up is never a good thing with these types of things.

00:39:30So that was a big sign.

00:39:34In fact, it was Harold's lawyer who wrote that email, in which Harold provided details about Alice's last known whereabouts.

00:39:41The contrast between wanting to cooperate and then referring all questions to the attorney is a big one.

00:39:47Months ticked by and still no sign of Alice.

00:39:49Meanwhile, Harold had apparently moved on with his life.

00:39:52For months, at that point, he had been dating someone new, Kim No.

00:39:57And she moves in with him, and he vacates the apartment and puts Alice's stuff in storage, all while supposedly

00:40:01looking for his wife.

00:40:02That sounds very callous.

00:40:04That is very callous.

00:40:05How does he explain putting her stuff in a storage unit?

00:40:08He didn't explain anything.

00:40:10Because Alice's family had been granted the conservatorship of her estate, Harold was forced to turn over the keys.

00:40:17Grace, along with other family members, opened the unit.

00:40:20That was really hard, actually.

00:40:23Because to look at all her stuff.

00:40:25One thing that really stood out was her hairbrush.

00:40:28Still with her hair in there, I feel I couldn't breathe.

00:40:33Because I just feel like this person just threw all my sister's stuff in this room.

00:40:40Like it was nobody's thing.

00:40:42Anything jump out at you in the storage locker?

00:40:46A few things.

00:40:47The biggest one was that there was a receipt from Nordstrom at Stanford Shopping Center.

00:40:51On December 1st, 2019.

00:40:54For a lady's sweater.

00:40:55That was the day Harold returned from his trip without Alice.

00:41:00That means that the first thing Harold did when he returned from Taiwan was...

00:41:03Was buy a sweater for the new girlfriend.

00:41:05You believe?

00:41:07Harold's lawyer says he bought it for Alice.

00:41:10But Andrew Waters wasn't ready to move on.

00:41:12Because there was something else.

00:41:14The death of Harold's wife of more than 20 years, Melissa Yu.

00:41:18She was just 56 years old.

00:41:21The official cause?

00:41:23Complications of sleep apnea.

00:41:24But the investigator wondered, was that the whole story?

00:41:28And this is natural causes with his second wife?

00:41:33Yes.

00:41:33We requested the autopsy report.

00:41:35And we read that and had an expert analyze it.

00:41:38And it was determined to be sleep apnea related.

00:41:40That is not something you hear every day.

00:41:42A woman of that age dying of sleep apnea.

00:41:46Very unusual.

00:41:47What also struck the investigator was the timing of her death.

00:41:51Harold said it was just before he met Alice.

00:41:53Very suspicious and convenient that he meets Alice in the same month that his prior wife dies.

00:41:58A lot of people have questioned the timing.

00:42:00One person was Harold's tenant, Bridget Buckley.

00:42:03After Alice's family had knocked on her door looking for their sister.

00:42:07Can we ask what this isn't about?

00:42:09Bridget's wheels started turning.

00:42:12As soon as the investigator in the family left,

00:42:16I immediately was like, he's got this new wife that is missing.

00:42:21I was like, this is, this is unreal.

00:42:25Unreal, she says, because she knew his second wife died.

00:42:28And she died in that home that we were living in.

00:42:33It gives me goosebumps to think about it right now.

00:42:36Bridget had grown suspicious of Harold.

00:42:38And she wasn't alone.

00:42:40Several of Melissa's friends told us they couldn't shake the eerie coincidence.

00:42:44Harold's second wife, Melissa, dead suddenly.

00:42:47And now his third wife missing.

00:42:49I was nervous around him quite a bit.

00:42:52You are smack in the middle of a true crime mystery.

00:42:55I know.

00:42:57The autopsy noted Melissa had signs of coronary artery disease.

00:43:01And a coroner's report closed the investigation.

00:43:05But Andrew Waters still had questions.

00:43:07Especially after learning about a financial transaction he found curious.

00:43:11The day before Melissa died, she and Harold refinanced their property, pulling out a million dollars.

00:43:19A million dollars in cash?

00:43:20A million dollar refinance.

00:43:21They pulled out cash and she died the next morning.

00:43:24Makes you wonder when he's under suspicion for killing Alice that the second wife died as well.

00:43:32I think it's suspicious.

00:43:34I have no evidence to support that he was involved in her death.

00:43:37And he was never charged?

00:43:38No.

00:43:38For his second wife's murder?

00:43:40Right.

00:43:41Alice's family still had so much to learn about Harold.

00:43:44And they wanted to hear it from him.

00:43:47But how?

00:43:48Their lawyer thought he might have found a way.

00:43:50Because they had filed that conservatorship, they were able to depose him.

00:43:54And so getting a deposition from Harold would tie into that conservatorship issue?

00:44:00Exactly.

00:44:00That allows you to use the power of subpoena and take depositions.

00:44:04They wanted somebody to take a thorough deposition of Harold Hurchin.

00:44:10So almost a year after Alice went missing, Todd was ready to put Harold in the hot seat.

00:44:16Any idea what this guy's name is?

00:44:17No.

00:44:18I came away thinking he reminded me of Hannibal Lecter.

00:44:22Really?

00:44:22From Silence of the Lambs.

00:44:23There was a creepiness to him that was unavoidable.

00:44:43By October 2020, 11 months after Alice vanished, her family had come to accept they might never find her.

00:44:50It's so sad when you think you have all this hope and you're searching and then you finally get to

00:44:57that point.

00:44:58Yeah.

00:44:59I mean, it's been so long.

00:45:03And all the evidence points to the fact that she's no longer here.

00:45:09Todd Davis was also thinking the worst.

00:45:12There was no evidence of any kind of financial transaction, either in the U.S. or Taiwan.

00:45:18She hadn't appeared on any of the Taiwan facial recognition software.

00:45:23That's a really bad sign, all of those things.

00:45:26Really bad.

00:45:27Team Alice wanted answers, and they believed her husband, Harold, was the key.

00:45:32The family's attorney finally got the chance to question him on the record.

00:45:36So my name is Harold Hurchin.

00:45:38And where were you born?

00:45:41In Zaubergen, Germany.

00:45:43It was the height of the pandemic, but Harold agreed to be interviewed in person.

00:45:49Andrew Waters, the family investigator, was also in the room.

00:45:52What exactly is your goal with this deposition?

00:45:55To commit Harold to a story and get him to provide all of his information that he has supporting the

00:46:00story.

00:46:01And then you can kind of compare that to anything he said before or after.

00:46:05Exactly.

00:46:06And they weren't the only ones with questions for Harold.

00:46:09Investigators in Taiwan had a list, and they were hanging on his every word.

00:46:14They were seeing real-time reports on what he was saying, and they were asking us to follow up in

00:46:18certain areas.

00:46:20Harold answered questions about his years in the Canadian military, about his Ph.D. from Stanford.

00:46:25He even joked about it.

00:46:27Should I be calling you Dr. Hurchin?

00:46:30We can do that over a beer.

00:46:32No, you don't have to call me, doctor. That's fine. I'm very relaxed.

00:46:35The lawyer asked Harold about his relationship with Alice.

00:46:39When did you meet Alice Kuh?

00:46:42June 2017.

00:46:44He confirmed it was the same month his wife Melissa died.

00:46:47Then he described how he met Alice, that romantic encounter at the Sculpture Garden.

00:46:52You met her at Stanford House, and you just ran into each other?

00:46:55Yeah, I like artistic things, and she does as well.

00:47:01We just ran into each other at the Rhode Island Sculptures.

00:47:05Oh, just looking at the art.

00:47:08That's right.

00:47:09He also talks about how they got married and how quickly it happened.

00:47:14Yes, they married just three months or four months after they met, according to Harold,

00:47:20and she would accompany him on business trips.

00:47:22Did you go to Taiwan ever without Alice?

00:47:26So, um, after we're married in October, I definitely did not travel without her.

00:47:35This seemed to be sort of an adventurous marriage, two people on the same page.

00:47:41He did paint a bit of a rosy picture about their relationship.

00:47:45But he also admitted they did have some bumps, like when they were building that tutoring app together.

00:47:51We were writing out the software specification for the app, and that caused friction, if you'd like a better word.

00:48:02Sure.

00:48:02Because my approach to that is different than what she wanted, but we sorted that out.

00:48:07So it kind of made it a little bit of a less than, you know, amorous situation.

00:48:13That app business represented a certain level of hope for her.

00:48:16Oh yeah, she was very proud of her idea.

00:48:19Harold seems comfortable, like he's opening up to you.

00:48:23That's right.

00:48:23He seemed completely calm.

00:48:24Even though Harold had already given a detailed description of his trip with Alice in Taiwan, the attorney asked about

00:48:31it again.

00:48:32At some point, you two decided to go to Taiwan together in November 2019, correct?

00:48:40He zeroed in on the day Alice disappeared and their trip to Turoco National Park.

00:48:45What did you two do during that day?

00:48:48We had a chauffeur and did sightseeing there.

00:48:51There's waterfalls and gorges and rocky places.

00:49:00She didn't like driving in windy roads.

00:49:05Okay, so did she get car sick a little bit?

00:49:08I would say so, yeah.

00:49:09Okay.

00:49:10Anything else that struck you about how she was feeling or how she was reporting she was feeling?

00:49:15I think she was mulling over in her mind what her reunion with her parents would be like.

00:49:20Okay.

00:49:21So at that point on the 29th, she had decided she was going to go see them?

00:49:25It was becoming a serious auction.

00:49:29So far, Harold's story had stayed consistent.

00:49:32Then the lawyer asked for more details about the driver the couple supposedly hired that day.

00:49:38Any idea what this guy's name is?

00:49:40No.

00:49:41Okay.

00:49:41Can you describe him for us?

00:49:44Yeah, he's probably 35 and, you know, a good-looking guy.

00:49:52Taiwanese?

00:49:53Definitely Taiwanese.

00:49:54Alice goes to the train station.

00:49:56Is it you, Alice, and the driver?

00:49:58That's correct.

00:49:59The driver was going to take the train, too?

00:50:01I don't know.

00:50:02Okay.

00:50:04So the driver leaves you with the car?

00:50:06That's correct.

00:50:07Okay.

00:50:07And where does he go?

00:50:08With Alice?

00:50:10Yeah.

00:50:10Okay.

00:50:11So there's nothing suspicious about him going to the train station with Alice?

00:50:15No.

00:50:16Okay.

00:50:16Not at the time, anyways.

00:50:17No.

00:50:17I'm a little, it was a little embarrassing for me, but yes.

00:50:20Okay.

00:50:21Embarrassing how?

00:50:21Well, you know, here's this young guy running off with her.

00:50:25That was a new detail.

00:50:26He thinks something might be up between Alice and this driver?

00:50:31That's what he says.

00:50:32He says it didn't occur to him at the time, but he later decided that because the driver

00:50:39was younger and attractive, that he believed that Alice was attracted to him and had run

00:50:47off with him.

00:50:48Was there something about their interactions that led you to believe that there might be

00:50:52something romantic between them?

00:50:56I'm not a good judge of that, but I would say by their conversation and the amount she

00:51:01smiled, yes.

00:51:02Did it seem to you she was flirting with him in some way?

00:51:07I don't speak Mandarin, but they, you could infer that.

00:51:12Now they're running off into the sunset together.

00:51:14That's right.

00:51:14Is anyone buying this?

00:51:16No.

00:51:17So you go back to the hotel, right?

00:51:20That's correct.

00:51:21And Alice goes to the train station and you have not seen her since, correct?

00:51:28That's correct.

00:51:29After she went to the train station, did you communicate with her by email?

00:51:33Yes.

00:51:34Okay.

00:51:34And is that that one email that she sent you saying she wants to extend the trip?

00:51:39That's correct.

00:51:39When you got this email, anything about it alarmed you?

00:51:44No.

00:51:51There was nothing that he said that I could pinpoint wasn't true or accurate at the time.

00:52:00It was overall demeanor.

00:52:02I came away thinking he reminded me of Hannibal Lecter.

00:52:04Really?

00:52:05From Silence of the Lambs.

00:52:06See, there was a creepiness to him that was unavoidable.

00:52:11How are you feeling when this deposition is over?

00:52:14He's a complete and total liar.

00:52:17We all came away thinking that Alice was dead and Harold and Kilder, but we didn't think

00:52:23we could prove it.

00:52:24But Alice's team was about to get their biggest break yet.

00:52:28The email could not have come from the other side of Taiwan.

00:52:31That's your smoking gun, if you will?

00:52:34The email was the smoking gun.

00:52:49About a month after Harold's deposition, family investigator Andrew Waters finally caught

00:52:55a major break in the case.

00:52:57Through a subpoena, he got access to Alice's email records.

00:53:01And hidden in the metadata was a critical clue.

00:53:04It had to do with the IP address linked to that message she supposedly sent Harold asking

00:53:09to change her flight.

00:53:10The email that he claimed was from Alice was actually from the hotel where he was staying

00:53:15by himself.

00:53:16When he says she's already gone off to her parents on the train.

00:53:19Yes, the email could not have come from the other side of Taiwan.

00:53:22That's your smoking gun, if you will?

00:53:26That was the big break in the case that proved that it was more likely than not that he had

00:53:29committed this homicide.

00:53:30How do you break this news to Alice's family about the email?

00:53:36I started off by explaining the technical reasons why it was proof.

00:53:40I told him that it is 100% certain that Harold sent this email from Alice's account to himself.

00:53:48Did you just feel defeated when you learned that?

00:53:52No, it's a confirmation that I knew Alice was not alive anymore.

00:54:00Family attorney Todd Davis says they sent the new evidence to several law enforcement agencies.

00:54:05Both Mountain View police, Sunnyvale police, and the FBI were notified and Andrew sent a complete

00:54:14workup of everything we had and why he believed that Alice was dead and Harold had killed her.

00:54:18But there wasn't a federal crime that could be pursued by the FBI.

00:54:23And is this because Harold is not an American?

00:54:28Is that why?

00:54:29Because he's Canadian?

00:54:30He's right.

00:54:31He's not a U.S. citizen.

00:54:32There is a statute, a federal statute, that allows the U.S. attorneys to charge a U.S. citizen

00:54:39with killing another U.S. citizen abroad.

00:54:43And he didn't qualify for that because he's a Canadian citizen.

00:54:46But he could be prosecuted in Taiwan.

00:54:49The Taiwanese police had also determined that Harold sent the email to himself.

00:54:53They issued a warrant for his arrest.

00:54:56They are investigating the case as a homicide, but the warrant for him is as a suspect.

00:55:02He hasn't formally been charged.

00:55:05But getting Harold in handcuffs seemed unlikely.

00:55:08We don't have extradition with Taiwan, so we couldn't arrange for him to face criminal

00:55:13statutes in Taiwan.

00:55:39So he's trying to say, no, she's alive.

00:55:49The ruling allowed Alice's family to move forward with their lawsuit.

00:55:53By then, they'd long accepted that she was gone.

00:55:57About a year and a half after Alice went missing, they held a memorial service for her in California.

00:56:02The pastor actually said, why don't we just do it as a mass for hope?

00:56:07And that day, we agreed to dress more colorfully instead of being sad.

00:56:15Yeah.

00:56:20This is the first time that I've ever, you know, done an interview where the person we're talking

00:56:30about is sitting right there.

00:56:33Yeah, it's about her.

00:56:34Everybody's ready?

00:56:35In preparation for trial, the family attorney questioned Harold again on the record.

00:56:40You bring Harold in for a second deposition.

00:56:44Right.

00:56:44And the stakes are a lot higher this time.

00:56:47It's a very different deposition.

00:56:49We were accusing him openly of killing Alice.

00:56:53The judge put a limit on how long he could be questioned.

00:56:57So now the clock's ticking on you.

00:56:59Right.

00:56:59We had two hours to get as much as we could from him.

00:57:03He asked Harold about the email, the one he was now convinced Harold sent to himself.

00:57:08Do you know where Alice was when she sent this email?

00:57:14I do not know.

00:57:15Okay.

00:57:16Where do you believe Alice was when she sent this email?

00:57:19With her parents.

00:57:20He just denied sending it to himself and didn't have any other explanation.

00:57:25Even though you had proof.

00:57:26Right.

00:57:27That she didn't send it.

00:57:28Right.

00:57:28The lawyer moved on to something Andrew Waters had learned from a co-worker of Harold's,

00:57:33who said when Harold returned from Taiwan, his arm was in a brace.

00:57:37I assumed it was a broken wrist.

00:57:39How did you injure your wrist?

00:57:45I don't recall.

00:57:46But the lawyer knew that wasn't true.

00:57:49The co-worker said Harold told him he broke it at a wedding.

00:57:52So Davis confronted him.

00:57:53Did you tell anybody that you injured your wrist while you were at your sister's wedding roughhousing with your brothers

00:58:01in a bar?

00:58:03Yes.

00:58:04Harold then admitted he made up that story, claiming he was embarrassed about how he actually hurt himself.

00:58:10The roughhousing with your brothers in Cabo San Lucas was your cover story, correct?

00:58:15Yes.

00:58:16How did you really fracture your wrist?

00:58:21I hit something.

00:58:23What did you hit?

00:58:25A bookshelf.

00:58:27Did you do that on purpose?

00:58:30I was mad.

00:58:32You have no memory as to why you got mad and punched a bookshelf.

00:58:37I do get mad sometimes, but I don't remember just why.

00:58:44He's telling one person he went to Mexico to the wedding and hurt his hand.

00:58:49Right.

00:58:49And then he's telling you that he punched a bookshelf.

00:58:52A bookshelf.

00:58:53At his apartment before he went to Taiwan in November 2019.

00:58:56What was important about that line of questioning is we learned who his doctor was, and we were able to

00:59:03subpoena his medical records.

00:59:05Once those records came in, the lawyer finally had the truth.

00:59:10Harold had fractured his hand in Taiwan on November 29th, the day Alice went missing.

00:59:17And drove straight from the airport on his return flight to the emergency room to have it looked at.

00:59:23And you believe it has something to do with Alice's last day in that park?

00:59:28There's no question.

00:59:30I cannot imagine it's a coincidence that he broke his hand on the same day that Alice died.

00:59:38They have to be connected.

00:59:40After the two hours were up, Harold was free to go.

00:59:44Bridget Buckley, who was now his former tenant, says she met up with Harold because he owed her money and

00:59:49he got real chatty.

00:59:51We had a conversation.

00:59:53And it was pretty wild.

00:59:58Harold is almost choking up.

01:00:01And he's saying that he's going through something unimaginable.

01:00:06And if he told me about it, I would have to be interviewed.

01:00:12She assumed he meant interviewed by the police.

01:00:15Oh, my goodness.

01:00:17What do you do with that?

01:00:19I play dumb.

01:00:20But what's your gut telling you that you're not saying to him?

01:00:24Oh, my gut is like, he's going to be in big trouble.

01:00:29Like, they're going to catch on.

01:00:30He's about to be caught.

01:00:33Not exactly caught, but Harold's civil trial was coming.

01:00:37And the family's lawyer said he was ready to reveal Harold's lies.

01:00:41He said that he had temporary amnesia from...

01:00:46Amnesia?

01:00:47Amnesia.

01:00:48I mean, that's like out of a soap opera or something.

01:01:04Over the years, when Alice's family went to Taroko National Park, they were sure, somewhere deep in the gorge, she

01:01:12was there.

01:01:12On the fourth anniversary of her disappearance, it was the same.

01:01:16You yelled something out into the valley.

01:01:20Yes, we did.

01:01:21What was that?

01:01:23It was, Alice, come home with us.

01:01:25It was like this.

01:01:27Alice, come home with us.

01:01:30And you also did it in Mandarin as well?

01:01:32Yes.

01:01:33Yafang, come home with us.

01:01:37Sorry.

01:01:37Oh, I'm sorry.

01:01:38Sorry.

01:01:40Yeah.

01:01:41It's hard being back here.

01:01:42Right.

01:01:43You were never going to stop searching for Alice.

01:01:46No, we were not.

01:01:48We also will keep fighting for her, for her justice.

01:01:51I don't want her to become a legend.

01:01:53She was real.

01:01:55She was a real person.

01:01:56She was my sister.

01:01:58About 6,500 miles away from Taiwan,

01:02:01and more than five years after Alice went missing,

01:02:04in July 2025, her family faced Harold Hurchin in a San Jose courtroom,

01:02:10determined to make him answer for her death.

01:02:12This is now your family going after Harold Hurchin, guns a-blazing.

01:02:18Yes.

01:02:18You're going to bring him down?

01:02:19Yes.

01:02:20If a jury found Harold liable for killing Alice and awarded damages,

01:02:25the family hoped criminal charges would eventually follow.

01:02:28This wasn't about money.

01:02:29No, it wasn't.

01:02:30It wasn't.

01:02:31Not at all.

01:02:32This was the only way that we knew how to get him.

01:02:35It really puts his name in the public,

01:02:38which is a different kind of justice,

01:02:40that now everyone knows what he's been accused of doing.

01:02:45Mm-hmm.

01:02:46Yes.

01:02:47Cameras were not allowed in the courtroom.

01:02:50The family's attorney, Todd Davis, delivered his opening statement.

01:02:54You really wanted to just set the tone right off the bat for the jurors.

01:02:58I tried that case like I was a criminal prosecutor.

01:03:02The main pillars of his case, Harold never really searched for his wife when she went missing.

01:03:07He callously deceived Alice's siblings with that fake email pretending Alice had sent it.

01:03:13And he covered up the killing with lie after lie.

01:03:16I was just wondering, how could such a person do such a horrible thing to my sister?

01:03:25Alice's father flew in from Taiwan to be at the trial.

01:03:28I can only imagine the heartbreak of your father being in that courtroom and having to hear all these things.

01:03:34Yeah. My father was crying a lot while he was on the stand.

01:03:39You testified?

01:03:40I testified.

01:03:41What message were you to get across?

01:03:43How her missing had impact on me.

01:03:46Just how hard it was on all of you, you and all your family.

01:03:50Yes.

01:03:51The family's attorney argued Harold never searched for Alice when she went missing.

01:03:55Harold did fly back to Taiwan about a week after their trip.

01:03:59He claimed it was to pick Alice up.

01:04:01It was just part of his cover story.

01:04:03So he went there on December 8th just for that day, spent the night and came back the next day

01:04:09without her.

01:04:10And he testified that he went there for the purpose of flying back with her.

01:04:15If she's not where she's supposed to be coming off a flight, then you would think you would exert some

01:04:20energy to find her.

01:04:22He put in no effort to find her. None.

01:04:25In an extraordinary move, Taiwanese investigator Commander Hsu dialed into the trial from Taiwan to testify about that evidence he'd

01:04:32uncovered.

01:04:33The surveillance camera that captured the rental car entering and leaving the park.

01:04:37And those license plate readers that tracked the car from the park to the hotel, matching the path of the

01:04:43two cell phones.

01:04:44This data cannot change.

01:04:48So it's a solid evidence.

01:04:49This is technology.

01:04:51Yeah, it's a technology evidence.

01:04:52Harold Hurchin had consistently maintained that he drove directly from Taroka National Park on November 29th to the train station

01:05:01and dropped Alice and the driver off at the train station.

01:05:05Taiwan CIB was able to prove that he didn't do that.

01:05:09That is huge.

01:05:09Sure. Yeah, that made the case.

01:05:11What's more, the attorney questioned if the driver even existed.

01:05:15Were you able to find a driver?

01:05:18No, no, no. We can't find a driver.

01:05:21Under civil trial rules, Harold was forced to take the stand.

01:05:25He could have pleaded the fifth, but instead he answered question after question.

01:05:29Todd Davis seized the opportunity to confront him, playing snippets of the two depositions to expose his inconsistent statements, including

01:05:37about what happened to his hand.

01:05:39How did you injure your wrist?

01:05:40I don't recall.

01:05:42Did you tell anybody that you injured your wrist while you were at your sister's wedding, roughhousing with your brothers

01:05:49in a bar?

01:05:51Yes.

01:05:52How did you really fracture your wrist?

01:05:56I hit something.

01:05:58What did you hit?

01:06:00A bookshelf.

01:06:02Now, here on the stand, and once again under oath, Harold has yet another story about how he injured his

01:06:12hand.

01:06:12Right.

01:06:12He came up with a brand new story at trial when he testified that he injured his hand blowing up

01:06:20a car tire with a bicycle pump when he got a flat tire in Taiwan.

01:06:24Could you believe it?

01:06:25No, it's not a believable story.

01:06:27Harold even had an explanation for his inconsistencies.

01:06:31He said that he had temporary amnesia from...

01:06:36Amnesia.

01:06:37I mean, that's like out of a soap opera or something. I had amnesia.

01:06:41It was bizarre.

01:06:42So that's a lot of lies about one injury.

01:06:45It is.

01:06:46And why would you need to lie about an injury?

01:06:50Well, because you don't want people to know how he really injured your hand.

01:06:55As Todd Davis assembled all the pieces of his case, he left the jury with little doubt about his theory

01:07:01of the killing.

01:07:02Alice and Harold were in Toroco National Park.

01:07:06They got into an argument.

01:07:07He hit her.

01:07:09He broke his hand in the process.

01:07:12And either right then and there, she went over a cliff into the gorge or he threw her.

01:07:20After five days of testimony, the attorney was sure he had made a good case.

01:07:25But he wasn't sure the jury would agree.

01:07:28I didn't know.

01:07:29I mean, I was convinced that he'd killed Alice.

01:07:32But I didn't know if the evidence we had was enough to convince a jury by the evidentiary standard required.

01:07:40He may have had good reason to be concerned because Harold's attorney was about to argue there was much more

01:07:47to Alice's past than anyone realized.

01:08:13Alice's family felt confident their attorney had made a compelling case to a civil jury that Harold Hurchin had murdered.

01:08:19Their sister, this is the man you believe took your sister from you.

01:08:23Yes.

01:08:24Now it was the defense's turn before the trial began.

01:08:28Harold's attorney, Chuck Smith, signaled he was planning to delve aggressively into Alice's past.

01:08:33And he made an explosive allegation.

01:08:36She had worked as a sex worker in addition to her tutoring business.

01:08:41She wanted to hide that, obviously, from her family.

01:08:44The family vehemently denies that she was a sex worker.

01:08:49They're saying that he was being vindictive.

01:08:51He was trying to embarrass the family, embarrass Alice, even maybe trying to extort them in the sense of drop

01:08:59this civil trial if you don't want me to expose Alice's past.

01:09:04I don't think that was ever the motivation.

01:09:08In his second deposition, Harold said the sculpture garden, Meet Cute, was just a cover story.

01:09:14He claimed he really met Alice on the Internet.

01:09:18It'll either be on Craigslist or Backpage. I don't know.

01:09:20So Harold says that he was engaging with sex workers and came upon Alice?

01:09:28Correct. That's how they met.

01:09:29Did you engage in sexual activity?

01:09:32Twice, yes.

01:09:34Okay. Did you pay her?

01:09:35Yes.

01:09:36Harold said the trysts happened around 2013, while he was married to his second wife, Melissa.

01:09:42His attorney claimed by the time Harold married Alice in 2017, she was desperate to leave behind her secret past.

01:09:48That, in our view, is the most logical explanation of why she disappeared.

01:09:55Not that Harold killed her, but that her past life, in some fashion, caught up with her.

01:10:01Sex work is extraordinarily dangerous.

01:10:04Women are victimized and sometimes killed by their handlers.

01:10:09It is a really big allegation to call someone a sex worker and to say that they were possibly murdered

01:10:16at the hands of a sex trafficker.

01:10:18Correct. I believe that's true.

01:10:19He's got no reason to make that up.

01:10:22Is there any evidence that Alice was engaging in this in Taiwan?

01:10:27No.

01:10:28But yet you think that it's possible that someone, a human trafficker, a sex trafficker, killed her in Taiwan over

01:10:35this?

01:10:36Correct.

01:10:36The family's going to say that's a leap, you know, that you're looking to deflect from Harold.

01:10:41Okay. I believe my client when he tells me about how they met.

01:10:48But the family's attorney was having none of it.

01:10:51He filed a motion saying Harold's claim was baseless and prejudicial.

01:10:55The defense eventually backed down and the judge ruled it out.

01:10:58I mean, that's just so outrageous that I'm like, how did you make up those lies?

01:11:05At trial, Harold's defense attorney pivoted to another line of attack.

01:11:10He told the jury Alice's family had it all wrong because they had no idea who she really was.

01:11:16Alice Koo was a woman of mystery.

01:11:20So much of her life was hidden from her own family.

01:11:25He argued Alice wasn't as close to her family as they claimed.

01:11:29She wasn't seeing them, you know, every Sunday for dinner, but she was speaking to them.

01:11:33The evidence absolutely disputes that characterization of her relationship.

01:11:40I mean, she traveled with Harold six times to Taiwan.

01:11:44She never once tried to contact her parents on any of those six visits to Taiwan.

01:11:51The attorney also revived the story about the driver Harold and Alice supposedly hired.

01:11:57It appeared that she was interested in the tour driver and it appeared that the tour driver was interested in

01:12:04her.

01:12:05We believe.

01:12:06Yeah, we believe that instead of leaving on the train to go see her parents, she ran off with him.

01:12:12If she died at the hands of a sex trafficker, then how does that fit in with her flirting and

01:12:18possibly taking off with the driver?

01:12:22Sure. I mean, these are alternative theories.

01:12:25We don't know which one may have occurred, but they're not connected.

01:12:31He said Harold tried to track down the driver after Alice went missing.

01:12:35Our investigator went there and tried to find out the identity of the tour driver, but was unsuccessful.

01:12:44And the attorney disputed the family's claim that Harold never searched for his wife when he flew back to Taiwan.

01:12:49The allegation is that Harold was trying to look like he was going to get Alice, but in reality, he

01:12:56knew already that she was dead.

01:12:57My argument was that, no, this wasn't part of an elaborate cover-up.

01:13:02This was a legitimately concerned husband wondering, why hasn't she come home?

01:13:08Why haven't I heard from her?

01:13:09He told Alice's brother, George, that he spent considerable amounts of money to try to find Alice.

01:13:16What exactly has he done?

01:13:17He did reach out to contacts at his company, people that he knew in Taiwan, to try to see if

01:13:24they could find any sign of her.

01:13:25But it was just nothing but dead ends.

01:13:28As for that email, Harold said Alice wrote asking him to change her flight.

01:13:32The attorney argued investigators failed to show who actually sent the email and from where.

01:13:38Law enforcement did nothing to try to determine if that email may have been sent from some cafe or within

01:13:48a X amount of distance from the hotel.

01:13:51You're saying that they just, they can't pinpoint it exactly to the hotel.

01:13:56Yes. Our argument is, is that, you know, she, she, she did send the email.

01:14:02Then the attorney addressed Harold's inconsistencies about his hand.

01:14:06There are different stories from Harold about that injury.

01:14:11He punched a bookshelf.

01:14:12He broke it while using an air pump in Taiwan.

01:14:16Clear this up for us.

01:14:17Harold testified at trial that he was frustrated over a business situation and that he punched a bookshelf.

01:14:27Why so many versions?

01:14:29Well, Harold disputes that he gave different versions.

01:14:33At trial, Harold testified he actually injured his hand two separate times.

01:14:38The second time using the air pump.

01:14:41In the end, his attorney argued Harold had no motive to kill Alice.

01:14:45She shared with him an interest in archaeology and history, and they traveled the world together.

01:14:53It was a relationship of two adults who thrived together.

01:14:56So I think the evidence was very clear that he loved her.

01:14:59You see Alice and Harold as the perfect match.

01:15:03They really were.

01:15:04If Harold had wanted to get rid of Alice, he simply could have divorced her, said the attorney.

01:15:10Look, it was a short-term marriage.

01:15:12To divorce her and to settle it by paying whatever small amount of money would have been required was insignificant

01:15:22for him,

01:15:23and certainly not something to kill somebody over.

01:15:25In closing, the attorney argued the couple's last day together didn't fit with murder.

01:15:31It just seems incongruous with the day that they were having.

01:15:35I mean, they're having an enjoyable day at a magnificently beautiful park.

01:15:41It doesn't make any sense.

01:15:43And with that, after nine days, the case went to the jury.

01:15:47There would soon be a verdict, but the story was far from over.

01:15:52There was a big twist coming in all of this.

01:15:54Yes, correct.

01:15:55Did you know that was coming?

01:15:57Was that a surprise to you, to Harold?

01:15:59Yes, it was a surprise.

01:16:15As the Ku family waited for a verdict, they reflected on their years of missing Alice,

01:16:20sure that Harold Hurchin had killed her.

01:16:23Supposedly, this is a person who loved her very much.

01:16:26But they and their attorney worried the jury might believe Harold and focus on the flaws of the case.

01:16:31That was my concern, was that we know that he did this.

01:16:36And even if they know that he did this, then we meet the burden of proof.

01:16:41Alice has never been found.

01:16:42She's still missing.

01:16:44There's no autopsy.

01:16:45There's no cause of death.

01:16:47We don't even really know how he killed her.

01:16:49Those are really big holes in a wrongful death case.

01:16:53Whether it's a civil, criminal, you know, no body.

01:16:57Right.

01:16:58Is always a challenge.

01:16:59It's a tough case.

01:17:00So I didn't know whether or not they could get past that missing evidence.

01:17:05To the attorney, a speedy verdict didn't seem likely.

01:17:09We went back to my office and three hours later we got a call from the clerk.

01:17:14The jury comes back very quickly.

01:17:16Very quickly.

01:17:16I was kind of shocked.

01:17:18Is that signaling a positive in your mind?

01:17:21I didn't know what it meant.

01:17:22You know, you never know what a jury's going to do.

01:17:24But I didn't think it was a good sign.

01:17:26I was nervous.

01:17:27Then, the verdict.

01:17:29The jury found Harold Hirchen liable for the wrongful death of Alice Koo.

01:17:34And in the same sweeping decision, awarded massive damages.

01:17:38The damages were $23.6 million.

01:17:42That's big.

01:17:42It's a good verdict for this case.

01:17:44I know you've said all along it's not about money, but $23.6 million.

01:17:50Right.

01:17:51Were you kind of taken aback by that number?

01:17:54Yes, it's an unthinkable number.

01:17:57But what the Koo family had wanted all along was for Harold to be arrested.

01:18:01And then, nearly two months after the trial...

01:18:04There was a big twist coming in all of this for Harold that was going to put his entire future

01:18:10in jeopardy.

01:18:11It's not over.

01:18:13Correct.

01:18:13The D.A. comes after him for perjury.

01:18:17Did you know that was coming?

01:18:18Was that a surprise to you, to Harold?

01:18:21Yes, it was a surprise.

01:18:23We did not know it was coming.

01:18:24We knew the trial was being attended by FBI agents.

01:18:27But I did not know, and Harold certainly did not know, that the Santa Cruz D.A.'s office was looking

01:18:34into this as well.

01:18:36In September 2025, Harold Purchin was arrested for perjury.

01:18:42Accused of lying about his hand injury, the email he said Alice sent, and about dropping Alice off at the

01:18:48train station.

01:18:49It's like Al Capone getting charged for tax evasion for murder, you know?

01:18:53He spent the next four months in jail, and in January 2026, made bail, released with an ankle monitor.

01:19:00He pleaded not guilty to the perjury charges and is awaiting trial.

01:19:04And more legal troubles may lie ahead.

01:19:07The authorities in Taiwan are also keeping a close watch.

01:19:11Is there anything you would say to Harold?

01:19:13I want to say to Harold, please tell us the truth.

01:19:18There's an arrest warrant waiting for Harold in Taiwan.

01:19:22Yes, they believe he murdered Alice.

01:19:25Yes, all the evidence points to that.

01:19:28When he's extradited there, and I'm hopeful that he will be, I think they'll charge him.

01:19:32If all goes well, he'll be deported from the United States.

01:19:34Costa Rica is the most likely country he would be deported to from California and extradited to Taiwan.

01:19:42Does it scare Harold at all, knowing that Taiwan is interested in him for this alleged crime,

01:19:49and that they have the death penalty there?

01:19:51It absolutely does scare him.

01:19:53We are very concerned about the immigration consequences of what might happen to him,

01:20:00and that is absolutely of great concern for him.

01:20:04As for the sudden death of Harold's second wife, Melissa Yu, the Palo Alto Police Department told Dateline there are

01:20:10no plans to open an investigation.

01:20:12That evidence was too speculative and too prejudicial, so that was not allowed at the trial.

01:20:19Did Harold have anything to do with the death of his second wife, Melissa?

01:20:23Absolutely not.

01:20:25After all the years of pain, guided by her Christian faith, Josephine refuses to be brought down by Harold Hurchin.

01:20:33It's very odd. You know what? I don't hate him. I don't hate him. I actually pray for him. He's

01:20:40a bad guy. He did bad things to my sister.

01:20:42I cannot say the same for my other siblings or my parents.

01:20:48He felt he could get away with it.

01:20:50Arrogant?

01:20:51Definitely arrogant.

01:20:53Smarter than everybody else.

01:20:54Yes.

01:20:55Alice's siblings say they will continue to fight for justice, and they hope to use any money from the civil

01:21:01trial to help other families who don't have the resources they do.

01:21:05What I learned is that there are many stories like this, just in different settings. There are so many girls

01:21:14gone missing.

01:21:15Grace used her artistic talent to remember Alice and wrote a novel based on her sister's disappearance.

01:21:22Do you feel like this book could help other families who might be going through something similar?

01:21:27I believe so, yes. It's pretty much to say, you know, you don't want to give up when there's no

01:21:34answer. You want to keep looking.

01:21:36The Ku family says they will never stop looking for Alice, who sometimes feels closer than ever.

01:21:42I would like to share something with you. It's a dream. I was in the room, and she was leaning

01:21:47on the door.

01:21:50And I asked her, are you in pain? She said no. She said no, and that was a relief to

01:21:58me.

01:21:59And then she put her head on my lap, and I pat it on her head again.

01:22:05And I told her, I told her, you can come to visit me as often as you want.

01:22:12And she said she will. I think that was a real thing. It's not a dream.

01:22:22That's all for this edition of Dateline.

01:22:25And don't forget to check out our Talking Dateline podcast, in which we'll go behind the scenes of tonight's episode.

01:22:31Available Wednesday in the Dateline feed, wherever you get your podcasts.

01:22:36We'll see you again next Friday at 9, 8 central.

01:22:39I'm Lester Holt. For all of us at NBC News, good night.

01:22:50I'm Lester Holt. For all of us at NBC News, good night.

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