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Trey Murphy III | Strong Talk | Men's Health
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00:00Are there any kind of super interesting or surprising insights that people would not expect from an NBA game just
00:06in terms of what it takes out of your body?
00:08I mean, just after every game, sometimes you come out and, like, it's not that bad.
00:15You're just overall generally tired, but then sometimes you feel like you got into a car crash.
00:19It just depends on the team that you play.
00:20Or, I mean, like one of the last few games when my teammates hit me and my elbow was sore,
00:27my neck was hurt,
00:28and, like, I got elbowed in the head in one game.
00:30Like, it's a lot of stuff that goes on in an NBA game.
00:33Like, I know they say it's not, I know it's not football, but it's a very physical sport as well,
00:37too.
00:38Welcome back to Strong Talk here with Pat Davis, and today we've got Pelicans forward Trey Murphy.
00:45And you've done something really cool that I'm super fascinated by because you've taken what I call the leap, right?
00:50You were first four years, 10 to 15 points per game.
00:53Then last year, 21 points per game.
00:55And this year you've totally busted out, 20 points per game, 12 threes in one game.
01:01And I'm really curious just how you've managed to go from, you know, a very good player to now kind
01:08of, like,
01:08a great player who, in my opinion, should have been an all-star this year.
01:11I appreciate that.
01:12But I think the biggest thing is just my mindset changed from year three to year four.
01:19I had, you know, worked on my game.
01:21And also getting a contract extension helps a lot, too.
01:23So you're not worried about, you know, playing for, you know, my family's income and all that stuff.
01:28Now I'm just playing basketball just for the love of it and not trying to, you know, get a contract
01:32extension.
01:32So I think that helped a lot.
01:35My confidence went up because of the work that I put in during the summer times.
01:38I started working with a different trainer.
01:40Drew Hanlon, right?
01:41Yeah, I started working with Drew Hanlon as well, and he helped a lot with my mindset, like, just thinking,
01:46like, okay, when you go into the game, you need to believe that you're the best player on the floor.
01:49And, you know, if you believe you are, then a lot of times you're going to perform a lot better
01:53because you're a lot more confident in yourself.
01:54So he definitely helped a lot with that.
01:57You said mindset, interestingly, twice in that sequence.
01:59And I think a lot of people, obviously, like, when we think about transformation in men's health, it's very often
02:03a physical thing, right?
02:05How important is that mental side?
02:08And was there anything in particular you did, aside from Drew just telling you, again, you've got to believe you're
02:13the best guy on the court?
02:14I think the mental side of basketball is probably, like, the most important thing that you have to have because
02:18if you're not there mentally, like, you're not willing to work hard, you're not willing to sacrifice.
02:22Sometimes when you have to sacrifice, you're not willing to, you know, get through tough situations, then you're not really
02:27going to survive.
02:28So I think it's because of, you know, my upbringing as well as being under-recruited and just being, like,
02:35a, you know, under-the-radar guy.
02:36I've always had a chip on my shoulder.
02:38So I think that, you know, people have helped bring that out of me, but I feel like it was
02:44always inside me.
02:46What did you feel like guys did to help bring that out of you at times?
02:50Like, are there drills people can do?
02:52In all honesty, I respond well to hate.
02:54So, like, I think that's really what it was.
02:56It was, like, there would be times where, you know, they would bring up something where I fell short in
03:02something or I had, you know, not done as well as another player or something like that.
03:06And so I would just use it as motivation in order to, you know, push through.
03:10Pat, I'm really curious, too, because I feel like it's not like somebody can just yell at me and be
03:16like, you can't bench that, and then all of a sudden I can.
03:18Like, when it comes to regular guys and how they can do that, you know, in their own training, like,
03:24what are some mental things we can do?
03:25I mean, there's a lot that goes into motivation from scientific understanding, but one part of it is sort of
03:33like your perceived rating of who you are versus other people.
03:38And there's got to be somebody that you think you're just as good at or better than you that's kind
03:44of a little bit higher up in the hierarchy than you.
03:47And you're like, well, if this person can do it, I can definitely do this.
03:51Like, this doesn't make sense that I'm over here and they're over here.
03:55So that ability to look at someone else and visualize yourself being able to be in that position is a
04:02really big piece on that front.
04:04And when it comes to being able to put the psychological pieces together for this, there's oftentimes a discovery phase
04:12of, like, you know kind of that you want to go in a direction,
04:16but you're not sure what the pieces are that would be available to put into place to allow this to
04:22happen.
04:23So you have to discover what the tools are that you would have to acquire to make that journey.
04:27And then the next phase is actually taking the steps on that path with the right tools in place.
04:34And as you do that, there's a bit of a momentum gathering process.
04:38And as you gain confidence and momentum, it's the realization of this.
04:43And as you reach closer to it, the motivation increases.
04:47That's really where you, like, get a taste for it.
04:50Like, I'm almost there.
04:51And a lot of this is actually kind of oriented back to our origins as a species with hunting the
04:57way that we did with persistence hunting,
05:00like seeing an animal in the distance, knowing other people that were capable of bringing an animal like this down
05:06in the past,
05:07feeling your similarities to them.
05:09And then as you get closer and closer to this necessary kill that you have to make,
05:16the motivation increases and, boom, the action begins to really manifest and you acquire the ultimate thing.
05:24But it's the chase that's really the big process.
05:28Visualizing the chase, understanding what's involved, and actually going on the journey for it.
05:34It's fascinating because that's literally, like, the story of Progressive Overload, right?
05:37It's like if you want to bench 225, right, you kind of see somebody who, oh, it's like they were
05:42able to do that.
05:43And then it's the journey from 185 to 190 to 195.
05:46And then all of a sudden, it's like you get closer and then, oh, I'm at 220, so maybe I
05:51can hit 225.
05:52Like, was there, like, a guy for you who you kind of, when you kind of think through basketball,
05:58who maybe was that guy for you where you're like, oh, they can do it.
06:00I should be able to get there.
06:02Not necessarily.
06:03Like, to an extent, yes.
06:05There's, like, points in my life where I was like, okay, I see this person's measurements,
06:08and I'm like, okay, I can get to where they are.
06:11But my dad instilled that into me when I was a young kid.
06:15He never let me be complacent about anything.
06:17Like, there'd be games where I vividly remember my high school game I played.
06:23I had 44 points.
06:24I think I took, like, 16 shots, missed four.
06:27And he, like, after the game, he was like, you should have had 60.
06:31And so it's just, like, things like that where it's, like, you always move the goalposts
06:35and you're always chasing, like, you know, perfection.
06:38Like, you're going to be able to reach pretty great things.
06:41But I would say my sophomore year in college, I grew to about 6'7", like, 210 pounds.
06:49I put some weight on it.
06:50And I saw the guys that were in the draft that were getting drafted really high.
06:54They were all around that same build.
06:56And I was like, well, then if they're getting drafted at this point, like,
06:59what's separating me from these guys?
07:01So I saw that, and I said I needed to go chase that.
07:04Do you remember who were those players in that draft?
07:07It was Cam Reddish, DeAndre Hunter.
07:09A lot of success.
07:11Who else?
07:12There was another wing.
07:13Oh, Jarrett Culver as well.
07:14Like, all those guys were around my size.
07:15They might have been a little bit bigger than me, but for the most part,
07:18they were all the same size.
07:20When you think about your training, too, and just what you change from a physical standpoint,
07:25is there anything that jumps out to you that you've done physically different with yourself,
07:28especially this offseason?
07:29Well, last offseason I was rehabbing as well because I had my shoulder injury.
07:33So that was tough.
07:36And I just remember I lifted so much and couldn't run,
07:38and then I got to about, like, 223.
07:40I was huge.
07:41Like, yeah, I was a little too big.
07:43But got back down to, like, my normal weight.
07:47But I just really locked in to get my body right because I know that's the biggest thing
07:51to really help me reach my potential.
07:53And just the summertime in general, I really enjoy, like, the process of grinding,
07:58like, getting up early, working out, and just, like, seeing results as well as just, like,
08:02being in the process.
08:03Like, it's, like, I, towards the end of the basketball season, I'm, like, I'm ready to get
08:08to the offseason because I'm ready to get better.
08:10Like, I just crave really getting better.
08:12What would be the big negative for being too heavy for you?
08:15Like, you got up to that weight and you knew it was no good.
08:17What would be the real problem with that?
08:20Just overall athleticism, like jumping and running and stuff like that.
08:24I actually probably right before my third year, I got pretty heavy again.
08:31I got pretty heavy that offseason and I was pretty top heavy.
08:35And probably, like, a week into workouts in New Orleans, I tore my meniscus.
08:39And I feel like that had something to do with it because I was, you know, running around
08:43with weight that I shouldn't have had.
08:44Those forces are crazy.
08:45It was a lot of force on my body and so, like, that one really, you know, made me think
08:50and I was, like, okay, look, I can't just put on weight and just be, like, okay, this
08:53is good.
08:54I have to be smart about it.
08:55I have to be strategic and really technical.
08:57It's interesting, too, because I think that happens to regular guys, right?
09:00Their playground, they love to play on the playground, right?
09:03Go out there and play on the playground.
09:04But then the only thing they're doing in the gym is strength training, right?
09:07And then so they can add a bunch of, I think this happens a lot around this time
09:10of the year, too, right?
09:11Because guys, over the winter, they were, you know, just strength training.
09:15Right?
09:15And then they get back out on the playground and they have all this extra weight and they're
09:19just slower.
09:20Is there anything you try to do that way you're able to strength train, but at the same time
09:26you don't lose your athleticism?
09:27I mean, I trust my trainers.
09:29I really get, I really make sure I pick who I'm working with and, like, hear their philosophies.
09:34They tell me everything that we're going to do, like, the reasoning.
09:36And then, like, anytime they're, like, okay, we're going to do this workout, I'm going
09:39to ask, okay, what is that going to accomplish?
09:41Like, I want to make sure I know exactly what I'm supposed to be doing.
09:45And just, like, building your summer in, like, a tactical way.
09:51Like, the beginning of the summer, you're building mass.
09:53You're not really running because I just came off of a season where I'm playing 40 minutes
09:57a game running all the time.
09:58So I'm trying to save my legs for that.
10:00And then as the summer progresses, you dial down, like, the mass building.
10:04You're trying to go for power, strength, like, all that stuff.
10:07And then you start tapering that down and then working on quickness, athleticism, stuff
10:12like that.
10:12So just finding that balance in order to, you know, maximize the season.
10:17I think what you said there, too, is really important and really everybody should do with
10:20their trainer, that you're asking questions because you want to know.
10:23You don't just want to get a workout, but you want to kind of be educated.
10:26I think everybody really should be doing that with their trainer.
10:29They need to understand the reason they're doing a bunch of exercises as opposed to just
10:33following a bunch of instructions.
10:34Exactly.
10:35Especially because, like, you never know where your trainer's going to be.
10:37There's going to be times where they might have an emergency and you still need to get
10:40your work done.
10:41And since I've asked and I've educated myself now, it's like, okay, I can go into the gym
10:46by myself and I can do this and I know, like, I'm going to get this result or I know
10:50what
10:50this is going to help me do.
10:51Yeah, it gives you a little bit of a baseline.
10:52I was just kind of curious, do you have a corresponding nutrition plan?
10:56That kind of goes with those different phases, too?
11:00Well, I'm kind of skinny, so I'm kind of on the seafood diet right now.
11:04I just try to eat everything.
11:05It's not really, like, a specific thing.
11:08I did do a blood test in order to see, like, what foods give me inflammation and all that
11:12stuff, and I try to avoid that during the season.
11:14But then in the off-season, I just try to eat as many calories as possible.
11:18What's your go-tos for just getting calories in?
11:21Those weight gainer shakes.
11:23Yeah, I get those in those mass gainers.
11:25They'll have, like, 16,000 calories or 1,600 calories in there, and it's a lot of stuff
11:30in there, but it definitely helps get me.
11:32I'm curious, do you get metrics from every single game?
11:35Because I assume you guys, especially starting and playing 30, 35 minutes a game, burn a ton
11:40of calories, get a ton of steps in every game.
11:42I don't necessarily get calories or, like, steps.
11:46It's more so load and just, like, overall, just, like, minutes, all that stuff, but it's
11:52not calories, though.
11:53How much do you pay attention to that data, and have you learned anything just about how,
11:57like, how hard an NBA game is on your body overall?
12:01I pay a lot of attention to it because I want to maximize my career as much as possible,
12:05and I know, you know, taking care of my body is going to give me more, you know, opportunities
12:10as well, so, you know, putting in the work now because I just hired a PT as well last
12:15September, and he's paid dividends for me.
12:18He's helped me stay healthy for the most part.
12:21We've still got some games left, and, yeah, he's been very, he's just been on me about
12:28different things, trying to make sure I stay focused on, you know, my sleep, eating, all
12:33that stuff because it's so important.
12:34Are there any kind of super interesting or surprising insights that people would not expect
12:40from an NBA game just in terms of what it takes out of your body?
12:43I mean, just after every game, sometimes you come out and, like, it's not that bad.
12:50You're just overall generally tired, but then sometimes you feel like you got into a car
12:53crash.
12:53It just depends on the team that you play, or, I mean, like, one of the last few games
12:58when my teammates hit me and my elbow was sore, my neck was hurt, and, like, I got elbowed
13:04in the head in one game.
13:05Like, it's a lot of stuff that goes on in the NBA game.
13:08Like, I know they say it's not, I know it's not football, but it's a very physical sport
13:12as well, too.
13:12So, yeah, I do my treatment after every game, and it's a minimum of 45 minutes of recovery
13:17after every game.
13:18I'm kind of curious on the training side.
13:20Like, you know, it sounds like you've tried some different approaches, and has there been
13:25some, like, exercises or techniques that you found do not work for you versus some things
13:30where you're like, wow, we found some gold over here.
13:32Yeah, I mean, I'm a big fan of, like, simple movements and just, like, you know, back squatting,
13:39like, all this other stuff.
13:40I'm not, I don't want to be, you know, super new school where it's just, like, bands and
13:46all this other stuff, like, trying to be, like, super just, like, different.
13:49We're on the same page.
13:50Yeah, I bet.
13:51Yeah, yeah, no, I bet.
13:53You know, I've found success with it, just overall strength building.
13:57Like, obviously, there's a time for, you know, quickness and agility and all that stuff
14:01where you might need bands and less weight, but especially in the beginning of phases,
14:05I, you know, simple movements, I feel like really helped.
14:07You talked about the kind of philosophy that you're asking about or a tactical approach,
14:12and, like, has your mind kind of found a philosophy that you feel like really works for you?
14:17To an extent, yes.
14:19I feel like I'm still learning.
14:20Still finding, yeah.
14:21I'm still finding stuff every single day.
14:22It sounds like strength training, fundamentals is a big part of it.
14:26Super big, super big, because dudes in the league are strong, like, super strong,
14:30and you're playing against grown men.
14:31Like, it's different.
14:34Who's the strongest guy in the league?
14:36The strongest guy in the league?
14:39I could probably give you three.
14:41Steven Adams is up there.
14:42One of my teammates, Zion, is up there.
14:45And also probably Jalen Duren.
14:49Strong.
14:49Pistons?
14:50Super, yeah, real strong dudes.
14:52Super strong.
14:52It's really interesting hearing you talk about strength, too.
14:55We had John Starks, actually, on the podcast maybe a couple weeks ago,
14:58and he was talking also about how today's NBA guys don't spend enough time just doing the classic pure strength
15:06movements
15:07and working on strength because it is, like, a lot of, you know, bands, explosiveness.
15:11And, like, do you, what do you see from your teammates or from other players in the league and how
15:17they train?
15:17And when you're taking this, you know, emphasis on the basics, is that, do you see other guys doing that?
15:23Okay, so first I'll say that now maybe we might not lift as much as they did back in the
15:29day because it's a very different game.
15:31Like, you'll watch games from the 80s, and you're not seeing many ball screens.
15:37If you do this, like, a few, you're not seeing people run around a bunch of actions.
15:40Like, we have to do a lot more on the court.
15:42So I feel like being super strong and hefty, it's not going to suffice in the league.
15:49Like, you kind of have to be very nimble and quick and ready to move laterally.
15:53So obviously everybody's different.
15:56You know, you've got to watch different people do different things.
15:58But, you know, I definitely still watch, like, like, Jordan Poole, he has a pretty, you know, distinct workout plan
16:04that he does.
16:06Watch CJ McCollum, he, you know, his warm-up, especially during the time he was on my team, he was
16:10old.
16:11So it takes him a while to warm up.
16:13Sorry, CJ.
16:15And so, yeah, it was – but now I warm up for 10 to 15 minutes now too.
16:21Like, I understand why he does it.
16:23Like, I understand you have to get your body warm because if you go out there cold, you're not going
16:26to hurt yourself.
16:27What's the warm-up look like?
16:29So my warm-up starts off, I'll do calf stretch, hamstring slider stretch.
16:34I'll go to quad stretching.
16:36Then I'll do hip 90-90s.
16:38Then I'll do shoulder stretching.
16:41And then I'll get to my activating where I'll do slack board, get my ankle right, ankles fired up.
16:47I'll do a mini band series with my hips on, like, blue band around my knees and then the green
16:53band around my ankles,
16:54just steps, movements, all this stuff like that.
16:56And then I'll do TKEs.
16:59What else do I have on here?
17:01TKEs.
17:01So that's, like, basically for quads, right?
17:03Quads.
17:04And then also when I have meniscus surgery, they want to make sure you keep your extension.
17:07So I make sure I stay on top of that, activate my shoulder.
17:11Like, it's a lot of stuff.
17:13But, yeah.
17:13Pat, can you talk about that in particular too?
17:15Like, hip 90-90s I feel like have gotten more popular and a lot more athletes are paying attention to
17:20hip internal-external rotation,
17:22especially internal rotation is so important.
17:25But can you just talk about, I think, like, back in the day that was something, again, like, athletes got
17:30stronger,
17:30but they didn't think about hip mobility.
17:32And just how critical that piece is to longevity for everyone, but especially the athlete.
17:37I mean, if you look at basketball in particular, it's so much in the way of, like, being able to
17:42take the center of mass and lateralize it
17:44and own the position so that you can move in any direction from a lateralized place
17:50and hopefully the other athlete's incapable of being able to deal with this place and there's a blow-by experience.
17:56And the ability to take the body and shift it and put it over one foot requires rotation at the
18:05level of the thigh bone
18:06and it requires rotation and lateral ability for the thing to move like a seesaw at the pelvis.
18:13So a lot of these drills are oftentimes aimed at the femur, at the thigh bone.
18:18And, you know, a lot of newer ones as well are looking at being able to get the pelvis to
18:23move and pump and turn and things like that.
18:25But it requires, it's deeper, you know what I mean?
18:28It's almost like cooking a turkey.
18:30Like, it takes a little bit longer.
18:32The heat needs to get in there a little further.
18:34Old school track and field used to talk about this quite a bit of, like, the warm-up needs to
18:39be longer because you've got more muscle tissue.
18:42It takes, it's a denser human.
18:44Like, it takes time to get the heat all the way inside.
18:47And essentially, like, I love the old saying, you don't see too many lightning storms in the winter.
18:52Okay, if you want explosion, you need heat and you need the blood to get deep in there to be
18:57able to carry that heat
18:58so that you can have that very rapid electrical muscle turns on, muscle turns off.
19:04And, again, like, the tissues themselves that are able to deal with these lateral forces at the hips,
19:10they're way in there at the pelvis.
19:13So it requires some time.
19:16You can't just zap it like a microwave.
19:18This is a slow cooker process.
19:19Yeah, so 10 to 15 minutes kind of works for you.
19:22Yeah, I mean, now that he mentioned the hip mobility part, last summer was something I really focused on,
19:27being more mobile in my hips.
19:28And I know it's a big difference in just, like, my overall athleticism because I'm able to own those positions
19:33that I'm in.
19:34I'm able to get lower, be in a more athletic stance, and not feel like I'm straining my body to
19:38get down there.
19:39Helps you more on the offensive side or defensive side of both?
19:41Both.
19:42I would say both.
19:42But I definitely see a difference in, like, offensively just moving, like, going through moves, like, feeling smoother,
19:47like, sitting down and cross over between legs, all that stuff.
19:50I want to dive more into some of that and also kind of get to the mental and confidence side
19:55of things
19:55because I think it's a three-point shooter.
19:56There's a lot you can tell people about staying confident when you go cold.
20:00Before I do that, I want to have a little bit of fun and do a section we do called
20:03Overrated, Underrated.
20:04We're going to rattle off a couple topics, super quick answers from everybody at the table
20:08on whether you think it's overrated or underrated, right?
20:11All right.
20:12Traveling in the NBA.
20:14I mean, shoot, we can say underrated.
20:16Like, it's a part of – like, there's some stuff where it's, like, a part of the game, like,
20:19people just don't understand the rules.
20:21So I think that's what the problem is a lot of times.
20:23Yeah.
20:23So we'll say it's underrated, I guess.
20:26Pat.
20:27It's just changed so much for me from what I understood as a travel to what I see now,
20:31and I'm like, that's four travels in one thing.
20:34Like, I remember there was a Grayson Allen step back, and it was like –
20:38and I heard the explanation.
20:39It was like, oh, there's a gather step, and then there's, like, a step back.
20:42It was clean.
20:42And I was like –
20:43It was clean.
20:43I know which one you're talking about.
20:44It was clean.
20:45Apparently, that is according to the rules, not a travel.
20:48And I was like, I don't – then the rules are broken.
20:50So –
20:50People are – guys are getting really skilled and really smart and really trying to exploit the rules.
20:54So I can appreciate it as a guy that likes to score the ball.
20:58Yeah.
20:58That makes –
20:58Do you guys talk about that?
21:00Do you, like, sit there and, oh, that was a travel, that one wasn't?
21:02From time to time.
21:03Yeah, it's on time.
21:04Sometimes, yeah.
21:04We'll – like, somebody will bring up a clip, and it's like, oh, like, what's this?
21:07I'll say, yeah, it's probably a travel, but, like, you're not going to call it, though.
21:10Yeah.
21:11I think the rule is just hard to understand unless you're – you know, yeah.
21:14Yeah, you got to watch a lot of film.
21:16Yeah.
21:17You got to watch a lot of film.
21:18Protein.
21:18Do you guys take protein extra seriously in the NBA or are you underrated or underrated?
21:22Very seriously.
21:23So I guess we underrated people.
21:26Protein is, like, super necessary to keep yourself healthy and to build muscle.
21:31Like, we definitely are very aware of what we need to do.
21:34We need to do with protein.
21:34How many grams do you take in a day?
21:36Oh, I couldn't tell you, but it's a lot, though.
21:38I mean, I try to – I mean, after each workout, I was probably going to be around 25 grams.
21:44And, I mean, after that, you don't really process as much.
21:47But I try to get that about –
21:50I mean, it's critical.
21:51Like, it's the – you got to – that's got to be the foundational point nutritionally.
21:54Like, every meal should have a protein source and then you build around it.
21:58And, yeah, from a recovery standpoint, just repair.
22:01And then growth is less important for you guys, but the repair piece is huge.
22:05And you really need a lot of protein to be able to repair the kinds of damages you're going to
22:11take on playing an NBA game with all those impacts.
22:14Absolutely.
22:15Yeah.
22:15Yeah, I think it's eternally underrated.
22:17No matter how much protein anybody is eating, they can almost always eat more with very few downsides.
22:22For sure.
22:23Even when people are taking in 200 grams of protein a day, it can still be underrated.
22:28The GOAT conversation, which I feel like everybody talks about these days.
22:32No, I think it's overrated because, one, it's different eras, like playing against different people.
22:38And, also, I just – I'm a fan of just appreciating greatness.
22:42Like, you don't have to compare people to, you know, bring down somebody else's greatness.
22:45Like, the three people that are always mentioned, they're great in their own ways.
22:50Who are they?
22:50And how do you rank them?
22:52Just while we're here.
22:52Well, Kobe – I mean, I'm going to tell you the three.
22:56I'm not saying this is in order, but Kobe, LeBron, and Michael Jordan.
22:58Those are the three that people always mention about being the greatest.
23:03I'm a Kobe guy because that's what I watched when I was a kid, and that's what I was inspired
23:07by.
23:07So, I'm going to put Kobe up there.
23:08And then, you know, Michael Jordan was the person that Kobe idolized his game after,
23:13so I guess I have to put him in two, and then LeBron is just a third one on there.
23:17Okay.
23:17That's kind of the answer I was looking for.
23:19But, yeah.
23:19I'm not saying that LeBron's not great.
23:22I'm just saying it's my personal three that I like.
23:25That's it.
23:26Yeah.
23:26How about you?
23:27I always feel ridiculous when I'm, like, with a professional basketball player and I'm trying to create professional basketball players.
23:32You know what I mean?
23:33I mean, I think that, you know, I understand human movement very well, and, like, the access that Michael Jordan
23:40had to positions is just insane.
23:43Like, I mean, he was, like, his body doesn't even make sense.
23:46He was able to bend and contort into things, and his level of athleticism and explosiveness on top of that
23:52is just outrageous.
23:53And his understanding of the game, his mental dominance.
23:57I've just, I've never seen another athlete that has put everything together like that.
24:02And so I don't think it's all that comparable.
24:06I'm watching him on TV.
24:09You could just see, this game's over.
24:11This dude just decided this game is over, and he's going to win it on both ends of the floor.
24:16And I've never seen another athlete in any other sport be able to do that.
24:20It's special.
24:21Yeah, I kind of think, I'm kind of with you.
24:23It's a little bit of an over-the-discussion period, right?
24:26Because it is kind of like every era builds on the last era.
24:30I think I saw somebody, it might have been Kevin Durant say that.
24:32And it's so true.
24:33Even, like, in strength training, right, the things guys were doing in, like, the 1960s set the fundamentals for, you
24:38know, Pat to be as massive as he is, right?
24:41And for you to get stronger.
24:41So I kind of feel like it's probably a discussion we don't need to have as much.
24:46Last one, mental training.
24:48Mental training for NBA players.
24:50Super underrated.
24:50I feel like, like I said before, I think it's the biggest part of, you know, a basketball player, like,
24:55determining if they're going to be a good or a great player.
24:57Like, just the mental aspect of it.
24:59You have to have that mental ability.
25:02It's almost like an irrational confidence in yourself in order to, you know, reach your dreams.
25:07Like, if you're too realistic sometimes, then it keeps you, like, here.
25:12Like, you'll never, like, you'll never see yourself in that light where you can be, like, super great and push
25:18through that door.
25:19Because a lot of times we'll, you know, we'll almost, like, undersell ourselves.
25:24Or, like, not really, you know, believe that we can get to where we really want to get to.
25:27I think that there are, being a professional athlete is a very monotonous life.
25:32Like, there's a degree that a lot of people can't handle.
25:35There's, like, breaking points for your psychology with these sorts of things.
25:39Where almost every day is the same day.
25:41And if you don't thrive in that, it's not for you.
25:45And I think that it takes a tremendous amount of mental fortitude to be able to deal with that.
25:51And over time, you can grow to be better at that.
25:56So the training of that is really critical.
25:59Yeah, I think it is.
26:00The mental side is incredibly hard, right?
26:02And I think the more you can train that.
26:04I'm really curious, again, to understand the tools of that.
26:07And I want to go back to something you just said.
26:09You said you have to have an irrational confidence, right?
26:11Which I feel like helps in a lot of worlds, right?
26:15But I'm curious what you kind of consider your rational – or how you develop that, right?
26:22And what constitutes an irrational confidence for you?
26:24Because I'm sure other players have to have it, too, right?
26:26Everybody's got to think – you've always got to think you've got to be a guy one-on-one.
26:28Yeah, no, there's levels to it, especially because you're in the NBA.
26:31You're one of the best basketball players in the world, no matter if you were the 15th guy
26:34or, you know, the first guy off the bench.
26:37Like, it doesn't really matter.
26:38Like, you have to have that confidence in yourself.
26:40For me, I wasn't always, like, a super confident guy.
26:43Like, growing up, I was a skinny kid that, you know, I was just trying to –
26:49I was, like, one of the third or fourth best players on the team normally.
26:52So, I was just trying to, you know, just do my role and, like, just go on about my day.
26:56I obviously wanted to win.
26:57I obviously wanted to get better.
26:58But as time went on, I got taller.
27:01I got stronger.
27:03And, you know, I started, you know, really, like, honing in on, you know, working on my skills.
27:07And so, you know, I would see myself past people that were ahead of me at a younger age.
27:12Like, in the rankings or just beating them in the games?
27:15I didn't really care too much about rankings because I was a zero star going into college.
27:20And also, I was ranked, like, 25th in the whole state.
27:24So, like, rankings didn't really matter to me because I knew where I was at that moment
27:29was not where I was going to be one year ahead or four years down the line.
27:33So, I didn't really care too much about that.
27:37It was more so, like, I'm going to work hard every single day to get myself 1% better because
27:42I know a fast horse is not going to run for long.
27:44So, I'm going to be the one that stands out in the end of this.
27:49And when did you, was there a moment where you were like, you know, I have, where you
27:52kind of realized that you had a level of confidence that you hadn't had, you know, the year before,
27:56two years before, something like that?
27:57I would say the summer turning 16, that's when I had got my driver's license and I
28:02was driving myself to the gym.
28:04I was going to the gym.
28:06I didn't have to ask my parents to take me.
28:09Like, it was like, okay, I'm just going to go.
28:10I'm going to stay there.
28:11I'm going to get better.
28:13And that's when I started getting a lot better.
28:15And, you know, the more you work on something, the more confident you feel in your ability.
28:19So, I was in the gym before school, after school, lifting, all that stuff.
28:25Was that you by yourself too, doing that?
28:27For the most part, yes.
28:28I mean, I had a strength trainer at my high school.
28:31His name was Eric Moore.
28:32He was phenomenal.
28:34He's probably one of the main reasons why I'm the athlete I am today because he set the
28:37foundation for, you know, my strength training.
28:40He was, we were doing RDLs in my junior year of high school.
28:44I didn't even, I never even heard of an RDL before that.
28:46So, I was, you know, he helped me a lot.
28:49Interesting question too.
28:50You're a young athlete, right?
28:51And I think there are guys who go to the gym and they play, right?
28:55And then there are guys who go to the gym and they do drills and focus on drills or
29:00they run certain, like, was it more drills for you or was it more just kind of getting
29:04out on the court and playing pickup or, or like a more organized version of it?
29:09What was it?
29:09And how is it best for young athletes to think about that?
29:12So, for me, I, it was a mixture of both because I'm obviously an AAU kid.
29:17Like, that's, that's how I grew up.
29:18I was playing five games in one day.
29:20I don't know how I did that back in the day.
29:22Yeah.
29:23But I would say it's more important to work on your skill work, really refine your skills
29:28and then go play and see, you know, if what you worked on really works.
29:34I, I still believe that.
29:35Like, I try not to do too much, like, live, like, with defense stuff until later, later
29:40in the off season because, you know, I want to make sure I'm refined and make sure all
29:45my tools are really sharp.
29:46Pat, can you talk about that balance between, like, I guess, performing and then, I guess,
29:52you know, work, working or drilling to perform?
29:55Well, I think there's so many examples.
29:56That's why I asked, were you doing this by yourself?
29:58Because I can think of, like, a few very clear examples of athletes that reached unbelievable
30:04heights.
30:05Like, Dan Gable's the greatest wrestler of all time.
30:07And he was known as a kid in Iowa.
30:09He would go to the gym as a 12-year-old, 13-year-old, be the only kid in the
30:14wrestling room by himself
30:15and drill for eight hours a day on the weekends where there was no school.
30:19You know, like, Bill Bradley, you know, he was known for going to the basketball court,
30:25like, putting, like, some kind of blinders set up on that wouldn't let him see down so
30:30that he wouldn't look at the ground while he was dribbling.
30:32He would set up objects around the court to pass to them without looking at them.
30:36He did it even on a cruise ship where he went with his family and, like, took a ballroom
30:41and had them clear it so he could practice basketball.
30:45You know, there's just these athletes that have had this level of discipline.
30:48And it's the skill.
30:51Like, nobody wants to drill skills.
30:53It's the most boring thing in the world.
30:54You know what I mean?
30:55But if you are the kind of person that does that, look out.
30:59Because if you're, obviously, the right dimensions physically for the sport and you have the
31:04right physical tools like jumping, speed, athleticism, you put all those pieces together
31:10and it results in these incredible expressions of talent merging with work ethic
31:16and becoming something really special.
31:19Craziest basketball drill you do.
31:21Are there any weird drills that you do to improve on shooting, defense, anything like that?
31:25That you still do today?
31:26It's actually funny.
31:27It's one I took from Virginia that I, when I feel like I'm in, like, a little bit of a,
31:31not cold streak where, like, I'm not shooting as great as I want to,
31:35I stand, like, on the baseline and say, like, this is the basket.
31:39I shoot and I hit the side of the backboard and it has to hit the exact same spot.
31:43So, like, you know how thin the side of the backboard is.
31:46Like, I have to shoot it and I'll be probably, like, five steps away from the rim
31:50and I have to hit three in a row and it has to get back to me in the same
31:53spot.
31:53And I'll take a step back, shoot another three in a row, hit the same spot.
31:57So it just trains, like, my line to be really straight.
32:00And so I'm, like, really precise in where I'm shooting it.
32:02Because, like, if you're shooting at a rim, there's, like, room for error, obviously.
32:05You can shoot one that's like, ah, I didn't think that was going in.
32:07And it'll still go in.
32:09The side of the backboard, there's not much room for error.
32:11So that's how I really lock in to, like, getting my path straight on my jump shot.
32:15That's crazy.
32:16I want to actually read some numbers to you because that's perfect to go into what I wanted to do.
32:20So you had that big game, right, 12 and 19 from three.
32:23Yeah.
32:24He's like, I've heard this one.
32:25He's like, hey, done.
32:25Nah, I should have had 15, but it is what it is.
32:29I feel like this voice of your dad talking through that one.
32:31Right?
32:31Yeah, he's always on my shoulder.
32:33He's always on my shoulder.
32:34The four games before that from three, you went one for 11, 0 for 7, 3 for 11, 3 for
32:408.
32:40So you're kind of sort of, you know, not your sharpest.
32:43I didn't even remember that, in all honesty.
32:44Yeah.
32:45But go ahead.
32:46Sorry.
32:47I was actually going to ask you kind of going into that game.
32:50And just when you go into a slump, because you're a shooter, right?
32:53And I feel like this happens to regular guys when they go to the gym, too.
32:55Like, some days, we were just talking about this.
32:57Some days, like, I'm on the bench press and I can't hit.
32:59I hit, like, four.
33:00Some days, I hit 12 and I feel great about myself, right?
33:03When you go into those slumps, what's the thing?
33:06And obviously, it's that drill and kind of repeating that and rebuilding your confidence.
33:10But what else do you use to kind of maintain your confidence when you go into a hard shooting slump?
33:16Sometimes, I'll just watch my highlights, if I'm being honest.
33:19I'll watch my highlights and I'll be like, okay, like, this is who I am.
33:23Not like what I may have shown in these past games.
33:26But another thing is just taking a step back and, like, really looking at what is going on.
33:32Like, I try to be really – I'm really routine-based.
33:34I try to stay really consistent.
33:35So, you know, night before the game, I'm probably going to have – I'm going to get a massage or,
33:41like, do some type of treatment.
33:43The morning of the game, I'm going to get to shoot around early, shoot my routine shots that I normally
33:48shoot.
33:49Go through my shoot around, shoot after shoot around.
33:52And, like, just keep the same routine, stay consistent because, you know, we are creatures of habit.
33:56And I feel like if I deviate from that routine, then it may lead to me, like, being short on
34:03a jump shot or, like, me thinking about something else.
34:06And so I think what's helped me is just finding my routine and staying consistent with it.
34:12And if there's any, like, deviations from that, you know, try to cut that out.
34:16It's interesting because I feel like you and I were talking about something similar before.
34:19Like, that is the key to, like, habitualization, I think you called it.
34:23You used to fancy ritualization.
34:26Ritualization.
34:26Ritualization of processes, yeah.
34:29Yeah.
34:29Can you talk about that from just why it kind of works for us mentally?
34:34And also, it seems like that's something that guys can apply, you know, in the weight room or, honestly, even,
34:38like, prepping for meetings and stuff like that, too.
34:40I mean, look, my mind goes out there sometimes.
34:42You know what I mean?
34:43I think about, like, the way the universe works and how it kind of converges with the approaches.
34:48Like, there is the conservation of energy.
34:50Like, we are always looking to conserve energy.
34:53And the more that you habitualize and ritualize the actions of your life, you don't have to put energy into
35:01thinking about those things.
35:02You're saving that energy for the other parts of your life.
35:06The other thing is, like, most of your life runs on autopilot.
35:10People are unaware.
35:11Like, 90% of your life is habits.
35:14And you don't even realize your habits at a certain point.
35:18You can either have good habits or bad habits.
35:21You don't notice the difference.
35:23So, if you're able to plug in a good habit at almost every point of your day, that's where success
35:30is bred from.
35:32And at a certain point, you don't put much energy into thinking about those things.
35:38It's just it runs as an unconscious process.
35:42And now it frees up your mind to deal with the most difficult and sophisticated problems that you're going to
35:49face, which is an NBA game.
35:51The complexity of trying to play NBA basketball in live time is beyond what most brains can handle.
36:00So, you allow yourself to be able to live your life as easy energetically as possible with the best habits
36:09that support a healthy body, mind, recovery, rest.
36:14And now you're taking this optimized human into a situation that demands your utmost and expenditure of energy.
36:22And you've really created a perfect storm for being able to demonstrate everything you've got.
36:29It's really interesting because I feel like guys these days, or everybody in the world, loves talking about the idea
36:33of optimization.
36:34And they think of it as some supplement you're going to take or some recovery thing or something like that.
36:39But it really is, you're right, what athletes do and pro athletes do really well is they optimize their habits
36:45and everything around that.
36:46And that is probably truer optimization than taking a certain supplement or going into, like, a red light infrared sauna
36:53or something like that.
36:54So, that is kind of, that's deep stuff.
36:56It's funny you say that, about, like, 90% of life is, like, autopilot for us.
37:01And it made me think about, like, as soon as the season's over, like, I force myself to take two
37:05weeks off.
37:06Like, no strength training, no basketball, nothing.
37:09And it's the weirdest two weeks of my entire life.
37:11It's weird.
37:12Like, the first, like, five days I wake up and it's like, all right, cool.
37:15Like, I have nothing to do.
37:16And after that I'm like, what do I do with my life?
37:18You start to crave the.
37:19Yeah, it's like, I really don't know what to do.
37:21And it's like, I can't, like, I have to force my body not to do anything just to give it
37:25time to, like, recover and rest.
37:27And so.
37:27I love that you do that.
37:28Yeah.
37:29That's something that a lot of people don't do.
37:31They'll try to stay in that groove forever.
37:33And you need a break from it.
37:34You do.
37:35It's training lows.
37:36You just, you got to work with the ebbs and flows.
37:38If you're low, you have to let yourself go back to your, to your mean.
37:41It is interesting, too.
37:43Like, why do we need to, at some point, if ritualization and kind of those habits and everything is so
37:49good, why do we need to take that break?
37:50Or what does that break give us, like, mentally?
37:52Well, the whole, the backdrop of the science on this is the neurotransmitters of your brain.
37:57And the big one is dopamine.
37:59Dopamine is associated with goal setting.
38:02It's also associated with, like, the kind of person that is routine-based.
38:07When there's excess dopamine, and it's kind of a problem, that's, like, where OCD comes in.
38:11Okay?
38:12So it's, like, that thin line that separates, like, OCD and other spectrum disorders from a military general or a
38:21great athlete or, you know.
38:23But all goal setting is dopaminergic.
38:26And all of these difficult behaviors that you push through to move towards a goal, dopamine-based.
38:33And so all of these things, like, it's a patterned brain.
38:39And there are certain individuals who are predisposed to have a neurotransmitter profile like that that sets you up very
38:46nicely to be able to handle the kinds of demands that you're going to face and then thrive in it.
38:51It's not just, like, you love it at a certain point.
38:55And anything else doesn't have enough action.
38:57It doesn't require you to be able to put all of these things together like a puzzle piece system.
39:04And now all of a sudden you create this perfect jigsaw puzzle of actions and behaviors and practice and technique
39:09and hitting the side of the backboard three times in that routine patterned way that just lets greatness emerge.
39:16It's really interesting, too, hearing that and then thinking back to what you were saying, you're age 16, you learn
39:22how to drive, right, and then you're going to the gym.
39:24Are those habits best formed when an athlete or when any person is young in those teen years?
39:30Like, does it get harder for, you know, somebody who's, like, 40 to sort of, you know, try to rigidize,
39:37if you will, their life?
39:39Look, like, show me someone that's done something great and, like, there's just, like, this backtrack of behaviors that led
39:45there.
39:46And it's a positive feedback cycle.
39:48It's, like, there's your reward, you know, like, especially, like, if life's hard and you find a reward, man, you're
39:55going to just burrow into that thing and just drive, like, a tunnel towards this end point through positive reinforcement
40:02through this place.
40:04You know, basketball's got to be, like, the happy place.
40:07I found happy places that pulled me out of hell and just drove through those places like a possessed person.
40:13And I don't think it's necessarily an age thing.
40:16It's a success thing.
40:17And how far can you visualize yourself going and driving that process harder and harder and harder?
40:24I mean, I don't think Kobe was slowing down.
40:26You know what I mean?
40:27I think he just pushed harder and harder as he got older.
40:30His quotes are great, too, because he talks all about that, right?
40:33He talks about never, like, slowing down, anything like that.
40:36When you mentioned visualization, did you ever visualize, and what was that like for you?
40:42Around my sophomore year in college, like, that's when I felt like I was close to being in the NBA.
40:47Before that, my freshman year in college, I said, okay, I can play professionally somewhere.
40:51Like, I don't know exactly what level, but I know I'll be able to play somewhere.
40:55And then that summer, like, I kicked it up another notch with my work ethic and just my attention to
41:01detail.
41:02And I saw the results, and I was like, you know, there's no way, like, I'm not an NBA player.
41:07So once you feel like you're really, like, what you spoke about earlier, when you're like, you feel like it's
41:12right there, it's like you just want to push even harder just to grab it.
41:15So it's like, you know, I'm really locked in and really, you know, it was like, okay, I need to
41:18really get to this goal of mine.
41:20That's badass stuff.
41:23Appreciate it.
41:23So as we kind of wrap up here, so much of this I feel like wound up being about understanding
41:30how to put habits in place, right, and kind of the benefits that come from that.
41:34So as we close, I'd love if, like, everybody here could just kind of give, like, one tip for people
41:40to help them put those habits in.
41:42That way they can, you know, reach their goals and, again, take, like, a leap and, you know, make that
41:48move.
41:49So if there was, like, a tip you'd give our guys, what would it be?
41:52I'll say two things.
41:53One, there is a quote that my college coach gave me my freshman year, and it was control what you
41:57can control.
41:59And I've just kept that in the back of my mind at all times.
42:02Like, you can control your effort.
42:03You can control your energy.
42:04You can control your attitude.
42:05You can't control if your coach plays you.
42:07You can't control if a shot goes in or not.
42:09But if you stay focused on, you know, all the things that you can't control and can't optimize,
42:14then, you know, you'll have less worries or less care about things that's out of your control
42:19because at the end of the day, you can't do anything about it.
42:23And also just finding what works for you.
42:25I feel like people try to compare too much sometimes and try to be, like, okay, like, this person's doing
42:30that,
42:31so I'm going to do that.
42:32That works for them, but that may not work for you.
42:34You have to figure out what works for you in order to achieve your goals.
42:38Yeah.
42:38Very similar.
42:39Like, I just think that life can be really difficult.
42:42And, like, you've got to keep the focus on yourself and being proactive about, like, moving in positive directions.
42:49It's so easy to get focused on somebody else and get upset or, like, you know.
42:55So it's really, like, shut all that stuff out.
42:59You know what I mean?
42:59Like, if you're doing the right things for yourself, good things come to you in life.
43:04If you're focused on everything outside of you, terrible things are going to happen inside of you.
43:10You know, you're just in compare and despair, you know, just dread.
43:15Like, so, and that's difficult, man.
43:18Life can be, life's hard for everybody.
43:20So if you are, I usually tell people, like, that when I'm having a conversation with somebody that's not doing
43:25so well,
43:26I'm like, listen, things can get worse, okay?
43:29Things can get worse real easy, okay?
43:32Just find one thing that you can do that you know is a good idea, that you don't want to
43:37do, that you haven't been doing.
43:39Do that today, okay?
43:41And then do it again tomorrow.
43:42Just one thing.
43:44And so I think if you don't try to do too much, but you realize, like, I've got to do
43:48one good thing for myself today.
43:50It's going to move my life in a positive direction.
43:52And then you just keep that going.
43:54Pretty soon that's going to be, you're going to do it all the time and won't think about it.
43:57And now you can move on to another.
43:58Yeah, I think what you both just said, to be honest, is the key.
44:02Like, when you're building a habit, to be honest, that is about just focusing on you.
44:06It's something that you can do.
44:08And, again, it's something that you can solely control.
44:11And I think the key for guys is start small, right?
44:14Just one thing.
44:15Whether it's, like, one thing, you get up in the morning, you just decide to do one thing.
44:18Whether that's, like, a single push-up and then it becomes two push-ups.
44:20And then three, and then it's ten, then you're at the gym benching 225.
44:23But as long as you start with that one thing, and I think it is, do it in the morning
44:27because that's the one time before, like, all the distractions and stuff have set in.
44:31You just do that in the morning.
44:32You attack that.
44:33And then pretty soon you're hitting much larger goals and you're able to pursue a lot more goals.
44:38And that's a big setup.
44:39And then that sets you up to take the awesome leap.
44:42So thank you for sharing everything with us, Trey.
44:43I appreciate you as well.
44:44Yeah, and also for shouting out Kobe, my guy.
44:46Absolutely, man.
44:47Appreciate y'all.
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