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Arsenio Hall changed late night forever, then made the decision to walk away on his own terms. In this episode of ‘What I’ve Learned,’ the comedian, actor, and talk show host sits down with Esquire Editor-in-Chief Michael Sebastian to reflect on fame, fatherhood, and the lessons behind his new memoir ‘Arsenio,’ including why he turned down films like 'Bad Boys' and chose to be present for his son. From saving ‘Coming to America’ to his friendship with Pamela Anderson and behind-the-scenes stories about Tupac, Eddie Murphy, and Prince, Arsenio shares why making people laugh is what matters most.
Get your copy of Arsenio’s self-titled memoir here: linktr.ee/arseniohall
#ArsenioHall #Arsenio #WhatIveLearned #Esquire
Get your copy of Arsenio’s self-titled memoir here: linktr.ee/arseniohall
#ArsenioHall #Arsenio #WhatIveLearned #Esquire
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00For the positive hour that you see,
00:02there are 23 horrible hours.
00:05Eddie Murphy and John Landis get into basically
00:08a physical altercation as they're filming.
00:10And at that moment, coming to America
00:12was not going to be finished.
00:14You get him drunk, and you get him high.
00:16I'm the devil.
00:21Hi, I'm Michael Sebastian, editor-in-chief of Esquire,
00:24and this is What I've Learned.
00:26Today, I'm joined by a comedian, actor,
00:28and the original late-night disruptor
00:30who changed the game of the Arsenio Hall Show.
00:32From stand-up stages to Hollywood and back again,
00:36he's built a career on reinvention, resilience,
00:38and knowing exactly when to call it quits.
00:41Please welcome Arsenio Hall.
00:43Mr. Hall, thank you for being here.
00:45This is a true, true honor.
00:46Well, thank you. And thank you for the intro.
00:48I mean, that was like better than a Shay Shay interview intro.
00:52So I want to dive right in.
00:54You've got this incredible memoir, Arsenio,
00:56which I truly, I read in one sitting.
00:58You know, you bring the receipts to show
01:01that it was your decision to leave the Arsenio Hall Show,
01:04and not that of Paramount's.
01:06You've got this great quote,
01:07my timing and innate ability to end things
01:10before they're finished may be my superpower.
01:12So I'm curious why, after all these years,
01:15do you feel it's important to set the record straight on this?
01:17My son. When your kid comes to you and says,
01:22oh, Dad, so I was always told that you were canceled
01:28because you snuck in the studio one night
01:30and interviewed Minister Farrakhan.
01:32And I'm like, really?
01:33You can't do an interview without Paramount knowing about it.
01:36You know?
01:37Right.
01:37But my son said that to me and I started thinking,
01:39and it was during the pandemic,
01:40and I got a call from Charlemagne the guy.
01:43He said, I heard you on Stern.
01:45You've got to do a book, dog.
01:47You've got to do a book.
01:48And I said, I'd love to.
01:50Let's call my agent.
01:51So I called my agent and I said,
01:52Charlemagne wants me to do a book.
01:54And she says, let me get back to you.
01:56And she got back to me and said, that's a good idea.
02:01And it started.
02:02Yeah.
02:03You know, there's one thing in the book,
02:04I have to admit, that I didn't quite believe.
02:07Mm-hmm.
02:08You say, so you do this show for six years.
02:10Mm-hmm.
02:10You devote your life to it.
02:12You know, 24 hours a day.
02:15And then it ends.
02:16And you go home and you sleep for an entire weekend, you say.
02:19And then you wake up on Monday morning,
02:20and your life after the show begins.
02:23Yeah.
02:23That was the thing I had a hard time believing.
02:25Because I thought, I can't believe that just the muscle memory
02:28of showing up to that office every day would have felt
02:32discombobulating at least than just be at home and not have that.
02:35I think a lot of people see me on the air,
02:38and they see this happy guy who loves show business and loves entertainers.
02:43But they don't understand, for the positive hour that you see,
02:47there are 23 horrible hours.
02:51Mm-hmm.
02:51When I wrote that letter, which I put in the book,
02:54and by the way, that letter is really important
02:56because I think young black men have to know that I went out on my own terms.
03:01You wrote this letter to Paramount, essentially your resignation letter.
03:05Mm-hmm.
03:05And then that never surfaced.
03:07Not only never surfaced, but they promised that we would do a press release
03:13announcing the end of the show together.
03:16I think it was Dennis Miller or somebody who let me know that they had gone forth without me
03:23and released a press release that wasn't really the truth.
03:28Yeah.
03:29So I got played, but it's cool.
03:31Yeah.
03:32Because now I got a book.
03:33Good book. It's a good book.
03:34And I know we bailed and went back to that,
03:36and you were asking me another question,
03:37and I feel like the worst interview in the world right now.
03:40No, stop it.
03:41Okay.
03:42Okay, so you brought up the fact that you had Louis Farrakhan towards the end of your run.
03:45In the book, you write, it's when we stop talking to each other that we have a problem.
03:49You say that a couple of times in the book.
03:52I'm curious, if you had a show today,
03:54who from the world of politics would you most want to talk to?
03:58I don't really want to interview anybody because the climate is so toxic and ugly right now.
04:04We have a unique president who talks all day.
04:07Comedy writers are so tired.
04:08I mean, my arm is like,
04:10it's like, oh, is he on again?
04:12Oh man, he's going to kill comedy writers.
04:15I don't want to interview anybody.
04:16I don't want to be a part of, you know,
04:18I do a joke in my act where I say I hate all politicians.
04:21Everybody talks about J.D. Vance running against Gavin Newsom.
04:26I hate both of those pimps.
04:28My dad was a Republican.
04:30My mother was a Democrat.
04:32So I'm like a Republican caught in the middle, hating everybody.
04:35Asking me about J.D. Vance and Newsom is like asking me who my favorite Menendez brother is
04:40or some shit, you know?
04:41It's a bizarre world out there now and I just sit back as an old head.
04:47I just turned 70 and I just watch it and I say,
04:51there's no place for me and nothing I can do but watch.
04:55So let's go back.
04:56So your dad was in his 60s when you were born.
05:00My question is, what is the best lesson your dad taught you?
05:03There are a lot of lessons I didn't listen to.
05:05My dad didn't want me to come to Hollywood.
05:07You know, my dad was like, don't do show business.
05:12My dad wanted me in the family business.
05:13He wanted me to be a preacher, you know, but he didn't want me here.
05:17I tried very hard to be kind every day, to treat people as I want to be treated.
05:23And when I think about the juxtaposition of those words, I realized that's a commandment.
05:29Do unto others.
05:30So those little things that you learn, do unto others as you'd have them do unto you.
05:34Those basics that I knew by age six are the most important things that I have in my heart.
05:42Yeah.
05:42And those came from my home and my dad.
05:44Yeah.
05:45I've made a lot of mistakes.
05:47And there have been many days when I've slipped and probably been an asshole or done the wrong thing.
05:54But I've tried to make my dad proud because he didn't want me here.
05:58Yeah.
05:59You know, one thing you write about that your dad said was, my dad always taught me that men don't
06:03cry.
06:04But, you know, you describe in the book, you describe many tearful moments that you had.
06:09I'm curious, what do you make of that advice?
06:11And, you know, have you, I mean, what have you told your son about that?
06:14Have you said that to your son?
06:16Have you said it's okay to cry?
06:16I've said it's okay to cry, and I realized that we strap our young men with that responsibility.
06:26Be a man.
06:27Don't cry.
06:28There are a lot of things we're told when we're young that we have to get out of our system.
06:35It's important to cry.
06:37Being told, suck it up.
06:39You know, be a man.
06:40Yeah.
06:41You gotta cry.
06:43Some of the most important moments in my life, um, I went through them crying.
06:49Mm-hmm.
06:50There is this character in your life that you talk about in the book, D. Light.
06:55D. Light was your mom's boyfriend.
06:57Yeah.
06:57Also a drug dealer.
06:58Yeah.
06:59Yes.
06:59Uh, tell me about him.
07:01What lessons did you learn from D. Light?
07:04My dad was a recluse, never left the house much.
07:08My dad went to church and back.
07:11Yeah.
07:12But D. Light was in the street.
07:14Yeah.
07:14I found a couple pounds of weed once in my mother's bedroom in a bottom drawer.
07:21That devil's cabbage kind of smell for the first time.
07:25What is that smell?
07:27Yeah.
07:27What's that funky smell?
07:28And I start moving around my mother's room,
07:32and I open a drawer, and more weed than I've ever seen in my life.
07:37And that's when I realized one of the divisions of D. Light's company.
07:42Yeah.
07:43You know?
07:44As a matter of fact, my landlord was a former pimp.
07:48I would spend days just talking to him, asking him questions.
07:52That's the talk show host, probably.
07:54But it's also the preacher's kid who didn't know that side of the world.
07:59Yeah, yeah, yeah.
08:00You know?
08:00And he would tell me things about women and sex and money.
08:04He'd also tell me about this store.
08:07Mm-hmm.
08:07You know?
08:08I used to do this.
08:09I took that money and bought this, and now I'm out of that.
08:13Yeah.
08:14There was a day of the week when he would order things.
08:16When he would order the candy, I would give him a piece of paper.
08:20Give me a 12-pack of Kit Kats, 12-pack of M&Ms, 12-pack of Snickers.
08:26And I would have a briefcase that I carried to school, and at lunch, open my briefcase,
08:32and I would do magic tricks and sell candy.
08:35So he taught me a lot about the hustle.
08:37Yeah.
08:38You just mentioned magic.
08:39So you started off as a magician, like a kid magician.
08:42Yeah.
08:42Do you still do magic, though?
08:45No, but I still love it.
08:47One of the cool things about doing Celebrity Apprentice was I spent three months with Penn
08:53Gillette.
08:53Yeah.
08:53You've mentioned Celebrity Apprentice a few times.
08:57How often does Donald Trump text you and say, I need some advice?
09:01I stay out of politics.
09:03Yeah.
09:04And I haven't talked to Mr. Trump since I worked for him as a judge on a pageant.
09:10He doesn't fuck with me.
09:12I don't have Trevor Noah's money, so I don't even do many Trump jokes.
09:17I remember a time when my friends like Magic Johnson would stay at the Trump Hotel.
09:24That was his favorite hotel.
09:25If he went to New York, he had to stay there.
09:27Mike Tyson would speak glowingly of Donald Trump.
09:32I don't know what their relationship is now, but I had friends who wrote rap records and
09:39you'd get Trump's name in it or Scarface in it.
09:43There were people who were heroes to the Roughnecks.
09:48Donald was one of them.
09:49And it's interesting how it's flipped, because I remember a day standing with him talking,
09:55and he first said something about the whole birther thing.
09:59Asked me what I thought of Obama.
10:01And we had a real cool personal conversation.
10:05And I told him, that's not going to fly well with the black community.
10:10Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
10:11I didn't know then about his youth and some of the indiscretions as a landlord with minorities.
10:23Yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:24So you grew up in Cleveland.
10:25Mm-hmm.
10:25In the book, you don't describe any incidents of racism growing up in Cleveland in the 60s
10:31and 70s.
10:31Mm-hmm.
10:32Was that the case, or did you intentionally leave that out?
10:35I didn't intentionally leave it out, but my first pass at the book, it was like 900 pages.
10:42I had read Streisand's book, and it felt long. So I wanted to have a book that was an easy
10:49read,
10:50not too long, and accept the fact that I can't tell every story, because I tried to tell every story.
10:59You know, the doctor, he slapped me, and I slapped that motherfucker back, you know, from the beginning.
11:05Yeah.
11:05So I got somebody to help me craft this book and cut it down.
11:09Yeah.
11:09I remember one of the stories I took out, I went back to Cleveland. It was an interesting,
11:15bittersweet visit. It was a wonderful R&B event that I hosted. On my way back to the hotel,
11:21doing the convertible, a couple guys screamed,
11:24Nigger! I hadn't been called nigger in so long. You know, I've been in Hollywood. I'm like,
11:32Me? Oh!
11:34You know, and it was a while before I visited Cleveland again, and I realized it's not Cleveland, dude.
11:41It's the world. And in Hollywood, you're insulated, because you're that guy.
11:47Yeah.
11:47So I was mad at Cleveland for a minute, but racism is everywhere.
11:53Well, it's interesting you say that, because you said you're insulated from it in Hollywood,
11:56and yet I got this feeling from reading the book that you were experiencing it at Paramount.
12:02You described these incidents in which basically the people from Paramount who distributed your show
12:07are coming to you and saying, Arsenio, the show's too black.
12:10But for what they wanted, they were right. But I was like, I'd rather do it the way I did
12:17it for six
12:17years than to do it the way they wanted to do it for 26 years.
12:22I don't regret one thing. I tried to kick the door open and let everybody in pop culture,
12:27and it wasn't just black rappers and comedians. Leah Deliria was an unknown gay comedian who was out.
12:36Yeah.
12:37That was my mission. Black men, black women, hip hop, the comedy that don't fit into The Tonight Show.
12:44Yeah.
12:45I don't know if it's racism, the things that Paramount used to do to me.
12:49It might be racism to search my car to see if I stole something, which I've had the guards at
12:53Paramount do. But as far as what they wanted for the show, it's not about black or white in that
13:01situation. It's about green. So I was hard hit because I had waited all my life. I used to do
13:09this show in my basement in Cleveland. I've waited all my life. Y'all can't change me now.
13:15Yeah.
13:15Because when I was a kid, it was like in school, you could say, hey, Al Green is going to
13:20be on The
13:20Tonight Show or Ray Charles is going to be on. I'm like, oh, cool. And it was appointment TV
13:25because a black person was going to be on.
13:27Yeah.
13:27Diana Ross is going to host The Tonight Show. Bill Cosby is going to sit at the desk.
13:33And those kinds of things were events. I wanted to take them away from being events
13:38and make them commonplace because we are part of America too. And some of the music being
13:43performed on The Carson Show has been stolen by people who can't even get on The Carson Show.
13:47Mm-hmm.
13:47You know? I think the thing that shocks me most is that there is nobody black in late
13:53night now and nobody significant female in late night now. I'm amazed. I thought back then there
14:02would be a lot of guys like me.
14:03Is there anybody that's really kind of picked up the mantle from you? And is the new Orsonio home?
14:08I think there are people who are doing what I did. They're just doing it in different venues,
14:12in different ways. Maybe not with as large an audience.
14:17Yeah.
14:17Shows like Drink Champs, those are black men. I mentioned Shea Shea earlier.
14:21Yeah.
14:21He's a black man. For this generation, what I do, you know, like Tupac used to call me and say,
14:27hey man, I'm in some trouble and I need to come on and plead my side.
14:31Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
14:32And I'd have him on and he would talk about what he's going through. I think now
14:37that space could be Charlemagne the God. I just think you have to sometimes look close and say,
14:44oh, it's disguised, but there is a black talk vehicle that's doing what I was trying to do.
14:50Yeah.
14:51Just maybe not a variety vehicle also, because it's expensive. One of the things I used to go
14:57through is Luther Vandross would come to my show and he wanted violins. And to make it pure
15:03and make it the Luther we love, it would cost me a lot of money. Now, if Luther were alive,
15:10maybe Charlemagne could talk to him, but we couldn't bring the violin.
15:13No, no, no. And so you can feel the frustration in your book because on the one hand,
15:18you've got Paramount giving you notes about how the show is too black or you're too black.
15:21On the other hand, you've got people in the black community who are saying,
15:24well, you're, it's too white.
15:26Yeah.
15:26You've got Spike, Spike Lee called you and Uncle Tom.
15:28Spike Lee called me and Uncle Tom. And, and, and you know what? I went and had dinner finally
15:33with Ice Cube, but Ice Cube was mad at me eventually. And one day he invited me to dinner. We
15:38sat and he says,
15:39I know what you were going through now. Once he became famous, he said, I totally get everything
15:45I criticized you for. I know what you were going through.
15:49Yeah.
15:49When you first go to Paramount and say, okay, the acronym is niggas with attitude
15:56and they have a song called Fuck the Police. That meeting is over.
16:01Back then. And I didn't have the power to make that meeting go any further. Later on, I was able
16:07to say
16:08Ice-T called me and he was going through the cop killer saga and he wanted to come on and
16:14explain it. And,
16:15and boy, he kicked some knowledge that day and helped people understand something about young
16:21black men and hip hop. At that point, the show was so hot when Paramount said,
16:29we're not talking about cop killer. And I'm like, yes, we are. And then it started changing. So then it
16:36started being Arsenio doing that show he dreamed of and we can't stop it.
16:41Yeah. Okay. So you, you tell all of these great stories in, in your book. I want to,
16:46you know, illuminate a few of them. So you went on a date with Pamela Anderson in the eighties.
16:51You don't really say how that date ended. How did it go at the end?
16:54We became very good friends. Yeah.
16:56And I think until she got married, we stayed, uh, homies, you know, Pam is a very smart,
17:06talented person. And, uh, and we're still friends, even though our lives and our
17:12paths don't cross like they used to. There's also this great story about you,
17:17uh, you're doing coming to America, uh, Eddie Murphy and John Landis. They get into basically
17:23a physical altercation as they're filming. And you are called to basically get Eddie Murphy back
17:30on board and you go to his house in New Jersey and you get him drunk and you get him
17:34high. And
17:35he did not drink at the time. He did not, uh, do drugs at the time. I want you to
17:39tell me about
17:40that story. Like, tell me. See, that sounds like I became the guy my dad was afraid I'd become.
17:46Uh, I like a lot of famous heterosexual men wanted to be with two women. The star on the Hollywood
17:55Walk of Fame, that was one of two dreams. The other thing I dreamed of was being with two women.
18:01So I had a day off from shooting and I'm at the Waldorf Astoria. One young lady who I was
18:08dating in LA,
18:09she flew in and I met another young lady on the set and I weaved my magic. We had some
18:16weed and some
18:17coke and they came over and we had the stereo and the TV blasting. And it was on, dog. It
18:24was on.
18:25I had on my Hefner robe and, uh, the phone rang. It was a man named Ned Tannen. Ned ran
18:33Paramount back
18:34there. The last thing you want when you're about to have a menage a trois is a phone call from
18:39a man
18:40named Ned. He says, go find your friend. Do you know what happened? And I said, no, this is my
18:48off
18:48day. I'm not there today. And he says, I think Eddie, uh, hurt John Landis. And I'm like, what do
18:56you
18:57mean? Hurt his feelings? What'd he say to him? No, no, no. I think he, there was some physical and,
19:00and so I called, uh, Eddie's cousin, Ray. And I said, yo, what happened today? And he said,
19:08director was talking shit. I had to pay. I'm like, I'm coming. I'm coming. You know,
19:16like I'm Superman or something. I get dressed. I get a car that Ned Tannen had waiting for me
19:23downstairs. And I went to Inglewood, New Jersey with a baggie of joints. And I walked in,
19:30and, um, Eddie told me what happened, you know, and that it had happened outside. I think
19:39maybe in front of the McDowell set, I guess there were fans and Eddie signing autographs.
19:45And John Landis said something to him in front of these people. One of those things where if they
19:50were private, it might've gone down different, but you front me off in front of all these people.
19:55And I think that was the issue. My solution to the problem was, it's crazy, man.
20:04And, uh, he says, I don't smoke. Fuck away from me with that shit.
20:09And I said, let me make you a drink. He said, I don't drink. You know, I don't drink. Who
20:12are you?
20:12You know? I poured some orange juice and some vodka in a glass. And we're talking. We're just talking.
20:19And then we start getting away from that and just laughing. The problem is Landis quit. And at that
20:26moment, Coming to America was not going to be finished. If Landis hadn't have come back, the
20:32legendary film Coming to America would not have been what it is. He was the heartbeat of that movie.
20:38We start talking and laughing and we got away from the movie. And, uh, eventually Eddie said,
20:47so is that nasty? And I'm like, no, it's not nasty. It tastes like orange juice a day after it
20:55expires.
20:56He has his first drink. I'm the devil. And, uh, eventually I get him to hit a joint.
21:05And before you know it, this is when I knew that we were going to have peace.
21:10He said, I love that dog. Come here, Val. And he lays on the ground with Val and they start
21:18talking.
21:20And I'm like, cannabis, the hero to conflict.
21:28But by the end of that evening, he was like, yo, man, we got to get this movie back on
21:33track.
21:34And I don't know what happened after that party that we threw, because we invited some people.
21:39We had a good time that night. I was off the next day too. Ned calling and said, you're a
21:44hero.
21:45I don't know what you did, but you're a hero. So I didn't do nothing. I didn't do nothing.
21:49And, uh, somehow he realized that, uh, there was a bigger mission and he had to put the anger aside
21:56and make it happen. And somehow him and Landis talked. And on that third day, when I was supposed
22:03to be back there, I was, uh, back at McDowell's trying to pronounce rhinoceros pism and a young
22:15Sam Jackson was on the ground under my rifle. And I remember Landis during lunch saying, he's gonna
22:21be the best. He's gonna be great. He's a wonderful young actor. And, uh, Samuel Jackson is great.
22:30You were offered the part opposite Martin Lawrence in Bad Boys. Do you regret turning that down?
22:35This is not going to make a lot of sense to most.
22:40I don't need a lot of money. I just need enough to not worry about money. If money is here
22:48on a list,
22:49there's something right here. When I stepped away from late night, from just working for a minute,
22:54I was able to see life clearer and realize that I didn't need more of that. And I found out
23:02what I
23:03needed. I needed more personal life. I needed a kid. I needed to be a dad. I wanted to be
23:11a dad.
23:12And I wanted to pick him up from school. I didn't want to be busy. I didn't want to be
23:16the dad. Dad,
23:17where are you? You're at Yuck Yucks in Atlanta. You know, I didn't want to be that dad. Richard
23:23Pryor once came to my first condo. And I said, I don't have no furniture, Rich. And he says,
23:28just have some Cavassier. We'll sit on the floor. I want to see what you bought. So Richard comes to
23:33my house and we're drinking Cavassier. And Richard said, I used to have a place like this. It was
23:39actually the last time in my life I was happy. Now, I'm sure that was exaggeration. That was hyperbole.
23:46But he said it. And as I got older, I realized what he meant. Life ain't about show business.
23:53It's just a job. And sometimes we make, I want to knock the bar up here. And I want to
23:58have
23:59this and that. And I want to do this and that. And you get to the end of your life
24:02and you say,
24:04they forgot me anyway. I don't care how good you are or how well you do something. People are going
24:09to forget you. So decide what's important. Be present as a father. Be present as a son. Be present
24:17as a husband. Those things are so much more important than, I wonder if they'd get rid of
24:27Kimmel if I can get in there. I got mine. Prince was somebody that you, he was on your show
24:36three
24:36times. Something like that. And it would take up the entire hour. That was the deal I made with it.
24:41The first time he did the show, he says, I want to do your show. But I want the whole
24:45show. As soon
24:47as you give Prince the whole show, that new singer Sammy Lunchmeat wants the whole show.
24:53We start getting calls from bizarre dudes saying, uh, you know, why can't I have the whole show? It's like,
24:59I'm never doing this for anybody else but Prince. Back in the old days, he wouldn't talk.
25:04And he would say, have somebody on while I change. You know, because he would do wardrobe
25:09changes. Have somebody on while I change to do the things I don't like to do. And that was talk.
25:15So the first time I think I brought Patti LaBelle on, he loved Patti LaBelle. You know,
25:21she was like a big sister to him. He loved her. And I was like, okay, while you're changing clothes,
25:26me and Patti are going to talk about you. And that's how I would do the show. I would have
25:30a
25:30co-host or someone to talk to while Prince put on different heels.
25:37Hmm. You know, I don't know if you've ever seen this theory, but there's a
25:40theory that basically the world kind of went awry after Prince died.
25:46You know, we say that with tongue in cheek, but Prince did warn me and probably other friends
25:52of his about a lot of things that became problems. I remember him talking about the concept
25:57of Napster and how that was going to change music. I asked Prince one time, I was like,
26:02don't you want a cell phone? And he says, no, I don't need one.
26:07And I said, I can't believe I told him all the wonderful things. And he says,
26:11everyone around me has a cell phone. Why do I need one? And I'm like, that's no fun, dog.
26:16But the bottom line is he even thought that was bad. Even possessing one.
26:21Yeah.
26:22Till the day he died, as I know, there was no phone in his tight pants.
26:27Hmm.
26:28I remember before cell phones, me and Queen Latifah, Dana, were downtown at this club
26:36at one in the morning and Prince did a two hour set. And I look back and I'm like,
26:41how did we all get there? I mean, there were a lot of celebrities in the room watching Prince
26:47break new material and work out. Somehow he would get everybody in that room and we would watch Prince
26:54till four in the morning. You, uh, you were also friends with Michael Jackson. And in fact,
26:59there's this great story about him basically wanting to meet your mom, give her a hug. I mean,
27:05tell me about that. I asked him for some advice because I'm like, I'm so busy, man,
27:09I'm working and I feel bad because my mother's out here now. So I told Mike, I said, I feel
27:14bad
27:14sometimes because she hangs out with my friends. I don't have no time and blah, blah, blah. My mother
27:18went to dinner with a comedian once. I'm like, mom, you know, you can't go, you can't come to the
27:24comedy store and give your number to a comedian. You know, it's just, I don't know how to explain it
27:31to you. It's just not a good idea. You know, if you end up at Spago with Pauly Shore or
27:37whatever.
27:38It was the big Soul Train Awards. I was hosting and Mike was being honored with the highest honor.
27:44And he says, bring your Thursday. Now, this is Holly. People are polite at most. This is Michael
27:53Jackson. Yeah. You know, this is the most popular man on the planet. He says, I'd love to meet him.
28:00So I tell mom, you got to come to the awards. I'm going to send a car for you. Michael
28:04Jackson wants
28:04to meet you. And she comes to the awards and she has a great time. And at the end of
28:09the night,
28:10I walk her out because I have to go speak with Don Cornelius and pack up my trailer. I walk
28:16her
28:16out to the car. I put her in the car. And as she's about to drive away, a security guy
28:23says,
28:24Mr. Hall, you know, he's waiting for you. Are you kidding me? He's reminding me. I hope people
28:34forget when I promise them things, you know? So I tell my mother, mom, whoa, whoa, whoa. Get out of
28:39the
28:39car. Come here. Come here. We're going to say hello to Mike. She says, you told me we were going
28:43to do
28:44that. I thought you would get them so happy. She was riding away sad. You know, she was looking
28:49like Denzel in Soulja Story leaving the shrine, you know, with one tear coming down her eye.
28:55We go to Michael's trailer. The gentleman does the secret Billie Jean knock and then opens the door
29:03for us. And we go up the steps, my mother first. And you hear, Danny Hall. He always found her
29:11name
29:11intriguing, you know? Him and my mother talked. I was just amazed that this guy said that and was
29:19still sitting in his trailer because Michael could have been gone. Right. Right. You know,
29:23a lot of guys like him come out of the building, into the car, wet with a towel, and they're
29:28in
29:28Sherman Oaks. Yeah. Before I say, good night, Mr. Cornelius. You know, but Mike kept his word
29:35and he met my mom. And to this day, my mother's in her nineties. To this day, you can't get
29:41her to
29:42stop talking about Michael. And that night. So I had this experience with Spike Lee several years
29:48ago. We were... Did he call you an Uncle Tom? He did. How did you know? That was, yeah. We
29:54were
29:54shooting him for the magazine and there was music playing in the background and a Michael Jackson song
29:59came out. And this was sort of, this was probably about 2019, 2020, something like that. And a lot
30:04of people sort of groaned and said, turn it off because of the kind of allegations that had swirled
30:08about Michael Jackson. And Spike Lee said, no, no, no, no, no. Michael was framed.
30:12What do you think about the legacy of Michael Jackson? As much as I love Michael,
30:16I have to respect kids I don't know and things they say about their life. I think we get into
30:23trouble
30:24saying, I'm not familiar with that, Michael. So you're a liar. I think there's something that
30:30I used to do in Cleveland, that my relatives used to do, that we did back in the day, that
30:37people
30:37don't do enough anymore. Mind your own motherfucking business. I see the kids and parents and Neverland
30:44and Michael and Jesus Juice. It's too much. It's too much for a guy at home to try to make
30:51a decision.
30:52So what I do is I try to raise my son, take care of my woman and not make any
30:59judgments about
31:00anything so terribly serious as abuse of children. And I know that doesn't make for a good interview.
31:08It would be much better if I said, well, what was the Jesus juice all about then?
31:12You know, but it's none of my business and it's too serious for me to guess.
31:16Yeah. So there are so many memorable moments from your show. I mean, it would be hard for anybody
31:22to just kind of zero in on one, but it was your show. What is the most memorable moment for
31:27you
31:27from your show?
31:28Between standing on stage and having Bill Clinton with a saxophone, that feels surreal to me.
31:36Yeah. I remember looking at the cards and saying, finally, a Democrat blowing something other than
31:42an election. And I looked to see if he's laughing and he, oh, and I looked down. I see all
31:50the
31:50Secret Service guys, because usually there's rappers in the front row here. On this day,
31:56it was men in really nice suits dressed like you. When I did that joke, I saw one of the
32:02Secret Service
32:03guys say, so it was cool and surreal to make him laugh. And then he wins and he calls me
32:14and says,
32:15it's because of me, you know, to have that, you know, I wouldn't be president if it weren't for you.
32:19Oh, fuck. I can't believe he said that. I wish somebody else was here listening.
32:26That moment, and probably the moment I arrived at Paramount and on the top
32:32of stage 29, where I did my show, were like 20 members of the Nation of Islam in suits and
32:40bow ties.
32:41And I knew then I had gotten myself into some shit.
32:45And what's bizarre is now, we mentioned Charlemagne Tha God. I turn on The Breakfast Club and I see
32:51him talking to Minister Farrakhan. And the things that made people hate me for life are commonplace
32:57conversations in media today. But I get it. Donahue, back in the day, talked to Farrakhan.
33:04And Mike Wallace talked to Farrakhan. And Barbara Walters talked to Farrakhan. But I get
33:09that the rule was, niggas can't talk to Farrakhan. You and Oprah can't talk to Farrakhan.
33:15And I broke the rule. Nobody's bigger than Oprah. You never saw Oprah, Louis Farrakhan interview.
33:21Hmm. I broke the club rule. And I talked to someone that I wasn't supposed to talk to.
33:26Because a lot of people say, oh, you're not a journalist. That's why we didn't want that to happen.
33:29And I'm like, the fuck out of here? There's a lot of motherfuckers that call themselves journalists
33:35that aren't journalists. And the deal is, I'm closer to my fans than any journalist.
33:41And I'm going to ask the questions they would want me to ask. And I'm the perfect person to do
33:46this.
33:47And let the journalist also do it. And by the way, let a black journalist do it.
33:54This thing of, it should just be a white dude, because y'all, y'all can't do it.
34:00You black people, we don't want you to do it. We'll do it.
34:04You go and do something else. Have another interview with Hammer.
34:12Yeah. So, during your final show, you filled the stage with hip-hop artists.
34:16And by the way, I know where that comes from.
34:21Online, it says that that was my final show. That was not the final show.
34:26I'm not sure why that show had such impact that people, it actually bugs me sometimes,
34:31because I'm thinking, no, no, I continue to do the show for another month.
34:35But what you're talking about is all these rappers flew to LA to pay tribute to what I had done
34:43for
34:43hip-hop. And it was everybody from old dirty bastard to yo-yo. Everybody was there. And they
34:50freestyled, which was kind of new back then. I think the first freestyle by a rapper was
34:56on my show and executed by Snoop. But that said, everybody was there. And for some reason,
35:03people thought that was the farewell to me. But there were many shows, and the last music
35:09performance on my show was James Brown. James Brown, that's right.
35:13And he came and he said, Senor, I'm gonna come and do it, but you gotta make sure I get
35:18to sell my
35:18cooking. And I said, Mr. Brown, I'm sorry? What? He says, I gotta lose it. James Brown, cook it.
35:26And I want to just, if we just have a moment, I said, but this is my last show. It's
35:30so important.
35:31I gotta, you gotta let me have this one. Yes, you gotta let me show the cookie.
35:34There's a funny moment that's only funny to me, where I'm saying goodnight to the world. And I hear a
35:42crumpling of cellophane paper behind James's back. And James says, look at him cooking.
35:50But I will see you again. Oh, James. If you want to have some of these James Brown cookies, I
35:56will.
35:58That's all I remember about my last show, trying to hold James's sleeve so he wouldn't raise the arm
36:04with the cookie. You know, I got the new James Brown cookie. You know, my life, my life.
36:13When the hip hop artists filled the stage and they're freestyling, one of them freestyles,
36:19if not for Arsenio, there wouldn't be no late night TV. Do you believe that?
36:24At the end of that quote should have been, for us. Because I think people like
36:31those rappers knew that I was coming to include
36:38the huddle masses in the gang, the people that didn't have a late night show. I'm here for you.
36:45And I think they appreciated that. And that was what that was about. So for him,
36:52he had watched Steve and Edie a lot of times on The Tonight Show. That wasn't late night for him.
36:58Mm-hmm. For him, late night began and ended with me. The thing I love about late night
37:05is the things I was doing, even though there are no black hosts and no female hosts,
37:11the things I was doing are commonplace now. What I showed is there is an ability to get numbers
37:22with minorities. You know, I remember arguing with Paramount about Juan Gabriel.
37:28He was a Hispanic artist. They said, who is Juan Gabriel? And I said, he's at the Rose Bowl tonight.
37:35So I was trying to break minorities into the late night game that were huge in America,
37:42but just not on our mainstream late night shows. Now, guys like Kimmel and Fallon
37:51are including everyone. Yeah. And that's what I love. Yeah. Last question. Your obituary,
37:57what's the first line of it going to be? He made me laugh sometimes when I didn't think
38:00life was funny. That's great. Because that's what I'm about. At the end of the day, I've been put on
38:07the earth to do a lot of things, but the most important, making people smile, making people laugh. So
38:20I'll be happy with that obituary. Mr. Hall, thank you for being here and joining us. This was
38:26fabulous. A true legend. His memoir is out March 31st. It's extraordinary. You should all go out and
38:34buy it and read it. Thank you. Thank you, sir.
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