00:00Right now, we're going to talk about Cooper Flagg.
00:05We talked a lot about Cooper Flagg yesterday,
00:09but one of the things that I thought was an interesting comp
00:13was after he scored 45 against the Lakers on Sunday,
00:19Cooper Flagg joined Allen Iverson as the only rookie since 1968
00:25with back-to-back 40-point outings.
00:28Now, you can look at this strictly from a perspective of champions.
00:34You can look at it from a perspective of quality of play, however you want.
00:39But go ahead and give me cut No. 7.
00:41Would you be disappointed if Cooper Flagg had the career of Allen Iverson?
00:47Iverson, wow, with a fake on Daniels as he broke his ankles
00:51and got all the way to the cup for two of his 40.
00:55And I want to add, in addition to the championships,
00:58because I realize that is a void, Allen Iverson will tell you that himself.
01:02But, for example, NBA, excuse me, The Athletic put out the NBA's top 75
01:09a few years back, and they had Allen Iverson at 40.
01:13Back in 2020, ESPN did the same thing, and they had Allen Iverson at 29.
01:18So, factor in the lack of championships, for sure.
01:23But I also want to consider that kind of, like, spot.
01:27Where's Dirk?
01:28Dirk is usually about 20...
01:3221, 22.
01:33Something like that, yeah.
01:36Luka's going to end up being ahead of Dirk.
01:40Yeah, I don't know about that.
01:43I...
01:44And here's the reason.
01:45I will just say this, and then people can get super angry.
01:49You're probably right.
01:51Because people like Karl Malone frequently end up ahead of Dirk.
01:57But if you have no titles and no MVPs,
02:02I just don't know where you would fit on that list.
02:05Even if you're an...
02:06Luke and Stella has plenty of time for both, yeah, right.
02:08Of course.
02:08I just...
02:09I guess I don't...
02:10I don't think it's as automatic as other people.
02:12I think it's probable, for sure.
02:15I just don't know if I think that's automatic.
02:17Okay.
02:17And this is just...
02:18I'm trying to gather some information so we can have this discussion a little bit better, too.
02:22Because...
02:24Cooper Flagg, I think, is going to have an MVP, for sure.
02:28Dirk was 21 and 19 on those lists.
02:31Okay.
02:32That's a...
02:33Like, that's...
02:33And we kind of talk about that conversation.
02:36That puts him in that basketball game, the top 24.
02:39For sure.
02:40Which is always really cool.
02:43And I'd love to see Cooper Flagg.
02:45At this point, rookie, I'm already like, man, how cool would it be for him to be on that?
02:49But, Kevin, I'm thinking of the kid.
02:52Think about what he might be eight years from now.
02:56Right.
02:56And we'll be like, wow, look at this veteran.
02:58So, I think at the moment, you said 24-ish?
03:0428-ish?
03:06I think that would be good.
03:10Okay.
03:11But I have even higher expectations for him to surpass Dirk.
03:17Okay.
03:18Which is a level higher than Iverson.
03:20Because, quite honestly, Luka had, in my mind, as a Mavs player.
03:25He had already, like, launched himself into that stratosphere.
03:28Because I was projecting the next phases.
03:30You made it to the Western Conference Final.
03:32You made it to the NBA Championship.
03:34You were the Mr. Everything for your team.
03:37Yep.
03:37So, I'd already been, like, even Dirk gave us the, Luka's already passed me.
03:41And if he would have won that title, I would have been like, you're right.
03:45Yes.
03:45Absolutely locked, guaranteed.
03:46And so, I kind of expected Luka to be there.
03:49And now that we have Cooper Flagg, number one overall pick, potential rookie of the year,
03:54he just completely changes the odds every day.
03:56He defies odds.
03:58That's weird.
03:58Yeah.
03:59And then, like, knowing what, like, my own projection of him is that he will surpass Dirk.
04:04So, I feel like he needs to be, you say Allen Iverson, I don't think that would be good enough
04:09for me.
04:10Now, what Allen Iverson did was special.
04:13He was a global icon.
04:16Yes.
04:17He wasn't just, oh, he's good up in Philly.
04:20No, he was a global icon.
04:23People around the world knew who he was.
04:26And in addition to that, on the court, you were just like, offensively, how do you stop this guy?
04:32Unbelievable.
04:32Especially given his height.
04:34Yeah.
04:35Double unbelievable.
04:36But I see Flagg on, you know, being able to play both sides of the ball so well, too.
04:41And in the future, I have higher expectations for him, Kevin.
04:45So, no, I don't think, I think that would be a disappointment.
04:47And so, from the 4-4-3, I just think this is just out of touch.
04:52But it would be fun.
04:53Okay.
04:54Because Iverson was an absolute blast to watch as a non-Philly fan.
05:00Man, that could be an interesting question.
05:02I know we did the team disappointment bracket a couple weeks ago.
05:05But just the most fun player to watch.
05:08Like, without factoring in, did they win?
05:11Steph's been a blast.
05:11Did they?
05:11Steph is really high up on that list.
05:15From the 4-4-3, with or without a title, Cooper Flagg wishes he had a third of Allen Iverson's
05:20career.
05:20I just think that is really off base, based on the way he started.
05:26You can't help but let your mind wander about where he's going to go.
05:31But on the flip side, you have a lot to try to achieve with Allen Iverson.
05:37Allen Iverson, he was first team All-NBA three times.
05:42Second team All-NBA three times.
05:44So, think about that right there.
05:46Six times in his career, he was top ten in the league.
05:52He was viewed as a top ten player, with three of those being top five.
05:55He led the league in scoring four times.
05:57He led the league in steals three times.
05:59It feels like he almost single-handedly willed a team to the finals.
06:03And that's another reason I bring up this comparison.
06:06Because Luka was able to get to the finals.
06:09And I know the Mavericks won in 2011.
06:12But the Mavericks don't have the greatest track record of building organizations around the guy.
06:19You know, like you had Dirk.
06:20It was a long time to get Dirk there.
06:22Exactly.
06:23And I know they made it to the finals in 06 and they didn't win.
06:26But look at those years in between.
06:28It's not like it was Western Conference Finals, NBA Finals.
06:32There was a big, empty spot when Dirk was considered, at worst, like a top seven player in the NBA.
06:41But frequently better than that.
06:43That whole time they were looking for a Tyson Chandler.
06:45Yeah.
06:46Go think about that.
06:48They needed a Tyson Chandler body type.
06:51Somebody that had that kind of quick twitch but also could be physical.
06:56They were looking for that to pair with it and having the right understanding of the game to know we
07:03have this in flag or we have this in Luka.
07:07What do we put around it?
07:07And everybody went, shooters?
07:10What happens whenever you need to be tough?
07:12Yeah.
07:12What happens whenever you need to battle?
07:15And it felt like we got there so much quicker with constructing the roster around Luka, which just makes it
07:21all the more perplexing that once they had built that roster, they were like, all right, we're done.
07:26Yeah.
07:27Well, let's go ahead and try Luka.
07:28And I was like, but you did it.
07:30You made the team.
07:32All right.
07:33And so let's go to LeBron.
07:36So LeBron, I believe it was yesterday, was talking about Cooper Flagg.
07:40He said, I love what he's doing.
07:41I love what he's bringing to this franchise.
07:42Like I said, it looks like he loves the game.
07:44He's putting in the work.
07:46And I know Kidd early on got a little scrutinized because they started him at point guard at times.
07:50I thought that was unfair.
07:51It's great to put the ball into somebody's hands so they can just go through those rough patches.
07:56When you go through the rough patches, it allows you to see growth at a rate faster than other players.
08:03And I thought that was an interesting concept.
08:05I know Jason Kidd would agree with that.
08:08But that's why I thought Allen Iverson was a great comp because he was unquestionably a great player and an
08:15unbelievable offensive player, but never won a title because he never got the group around him.
08:21And that's why I wanted to make the comparison to Cooper Flagg.
08:27He, why did they, I don't have the history in my mind of what Philadelphia went through at the time.
08:33I do know that Allen Iverson like barely averaged 14 points a game in 0-9, 0-10.
08:40Stop it!
08:41He should not have still been playing at that point.
08:44Okay, fine.
08:45It had been like eight years since he'd been on an all-star team or something like that.
08:49That being said, were they...
08:51Wasn't he an all-star like that year?
08:54Don't worry about it.
08:55The...
08:57On name alone, Kevin.
08:58I mean, I get it.
09:01Why were they bad at building that team around Iverson?
09:04Was it because...
09:05Did they ever blame him for it?
09:07Yes.
09:07And so, that part is tricky.
09:11I don't think it's as simple as it's one way or another.
09:14But that was the argument.
09:15But then again, people tried to make the same argument with Luka, and that, what felt like it was trending
09:21in the right direction, was he was so ball-dominant, they had a difficult time in stretches being able to
09:28build the team around him.
09:30You can't put another star with that, right?
09:33Not a ball-dominant star.
09:34I think that's the issue.
09:35You could put another star on that team, but they can't be a ball-dominant star.
09:39But then again...
09:39Could you play with Shaq?
09:41Oh, sure.
09:42I think so.
09:43The volume that both of them needed?
09:46I think, but one of the reasons I think it fell apart with Shaq and Kobe, too, was they had
09:54success so early together.
09:56Like, if you would have moved Shaq over to Iverson after he had won the MVP and lost in the
10:05finals, then I think...
10:08Yeah, then I think he would have been like, and by the way, that Lakers team is who beat Iverson
10:13in the finals.
10:14I think he would have been like, hell yeah, how much do you need the ball?
10:18And they would have figured it out.
10:19That was the issue is, well, I mean, there's a lot of issues and personalities, but they started being successful
10:25so fast that you're like, well, I'll be successful ever.
10:28Whereas Iverson had been like, hey, 2001, incredible season.
10:32Wins the MVP, gets his team to the NBA final, almost shows that usage rate is overrated and it doesn't
10:40really matter.
10:41But it does.
10:42You could still win.
10:43It's fascinating.
10:43Yeah.
10:44And then they lost and you're like, well, it does.
10:46And then you look at the spurs of that era and their stars were all quiet stars, humble stars that
10:53shared.
10:54And usage rate was no factor in it at all because all three of them...
10:58So that's interesting.
10:59So usage rate is still a dominant feature.
11:02And that's the thing.
11:03I thought Luka was going to break that too is because he has an ungodly high usage rate and they
11:11still made it to the NBA finals.
11:12And that's why I was like, man, this is going to be a fascinating case to watch.
11:16But then it didn't end up being the case, obviously.
11:20Somebody brought up Allen Iverson's assists and that's something that I don't think Cooper Flagg is ever going to match
11:26because of what he's best at.
11:28And so the trade out for that is going to be rebounds.
11:31Cooper Flagg's more of an off-ball guy anyway.
11:33Sure, exactly.
11:34And he does well that way.
11:35He needs a ball-dominant point guard.
11:38Maybe a Kyrie, like you said yesterday.
11:40I think that would be an amazing fit.
11:42He'll have significantly more rebounds, but I think a good chunk less assists.
11:48And I don't think it's reasonable for him to be scoring 30 points per season like Iverson did numerous times.
11:56So you've got to think, hey, can Cooper be a 24-point-a-game guy and then pick up the
12:02difference defensively?
12:04Would that help kind of bridge the gap if you're doing the comp with a player like Allen Iverson?
12:11And it's just yesterday when we were going through all of this, all of the comparisons were nobody has done
12:17what Cooper Flagg did since Allen Iverson, Luka, Michael Jordan, and Wilt Chamberlain.
12:24And what a bananas group of people to be compared with when maybe Allen Iverson will end up being the
12:32worst player in that group.
12:33That's a crazy group that you're a part of.
12:36And so I started to wonder what people's expectation levels were.
12:40Yeah, as far as individual player, if he was able to be in that category, that would be wildly successful.
12:48It would be very entertaining throughout the career.
12:53I've already projected too much on him already.
12:58And, Kevin, it's your fault, honestly.
13:00Oh!
13:01Yeah.
13:01You told me not to worry about his offensive game early in his career.
13:06You were like, let's wait on the offensive side.
13:09But he's going to be – he does what you said and does what we said.
13:13He makes the right plays.
13:14He makes good decisions.
13:16He understands the game.
13:17He sees the game.
13:18He understands his role in the game, on the court.
13:22Whenever it's five people out there, what is my role for five?
13:25And then all of a sudden he was like, oh, yeah, by the way, I can score 95 points in
13:29two games.
13:29Right.
13:30And that was where – you told me not to.
13:33Now that he's done it, he's changed my mind on what he's capable of.
13:37And my projection is even more and faster for him.
13:40But you're right.
13:41The Mavericks have to figure out how to put a group around him that can actually go run out there
13:45and do all the things.
13:46I thought he was going to be awesome.
13:48He's better than I thought he was going to be because offensively he's shown more quicker than I anticipated.
13:54And defensively he's been everything I feel like that was advertised.
13:58about such a kid, but how will he hire him now?
13:58It's going to be really chasing him now on the court.
13:59that.
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