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00:06This is Tyra Take Two, Common Mark, Soft Sticks.
00:15What was the toughest moment for you while filming the show?
00:19Toughest moment? Hmm.
00:25Tiffany, maybe?
00:27I'm thinking that. That was very tough for me.
00:29Yeah. Yeah.
00:34Somebody's back. Hey, I'm back.
00:37Last time I came here, I tried out.
00:39I didn't get A.
00:40It would have been a big change from hustling to being a glamour girl anyway.
00:45It's cool, you know, I'm used to failing.
00:48Somebody ought to fail, right?
00:49Tiffany, that girl, that girl was my heart.
00:52She didn't make it the first year because she got into a fight in a bar,
00:56but we've mentored her off camera and said,
01:00we feel like this show is going to be amazing for you.
01:01Let's get you the help that you need.
01:02And our team did.
01:03I don't jump on people and throw glasses and stuff like that anymore.
01:07I'm just not like that anymore.
01:09Tiffany grabbed her problems by the reins.
01:12She got it together.
01:13She came back.
01:14That girl wants to change her life.
01:18I thought she was going to win.
01:20But what happened later is the most discussed scene in the history of Top Model.
01:28So now it's time for your individual evaluations.
01:31The girls were tasked with reading a teleprompter.
01:37Christian Lacroix, Christian Loxroy, Christina Loxroy.
01:41Filled with all these, you know, designer names, a lot of French names.
01:45I can't know that word.
01:46None of you girls can read.
01:47Pretty much they were set up to fail.
01:50Hi, I'm Tiffany.
01:52It's Fashion Week in Paris.
01:54TechnoColor is the name of the game.
01:58Can you, I can't do this.
01:59I just wanted to change this woman's life.
02:02I felt like she could have been a supermodel with a capital S.
02:07Tiffany, the other girls did not know these words.
02:10They goofed the words.
02:11Go through it.
02:12Just have fun with it.
02:13Use your personality.
02:14Be you.
02:16I don't know.
02:17If you don't do this, you're going to go home.
02:19And I just saw all that going down the drain.
02:22I saw her just not believing in herself and just giving up.
02:26And not just giving up on this modeling competition.
02:29It's just a bit deeper.
02:32This is familiar.
02:36I think she wants it, but she's so intimidated by it.
02:38She'd rather say goodbye to it before it says goodbye to her.
02:41There needs to be something that really gets the competition going again.
02:45They need a wake-up call.
02:46Later in that episode, Tyra does something that she hadn't done before.
02:53Both of you will pack your bags.
02:55She sent two girls home.
02:57What a head.
02:59It's been all bad.
03:01Tyra really wanted people to take it seriously.
03:05Oh, girl, you gotta stop.
03:07She's feeling that Tiffany's mocking this.
03:10That struck a chord.
03:12If you guys stand in front of me, I just want to say one more thing to you.
03:15Tiffany, I'm extremely disappointed in you.
03:18This is a joke to you.
03:19You've been through anger management.
03:21You've been through your grandmother getting her lights turned off to buy you a swimsuit for this competition.
03:25And you go over there and you joke and you laugh.
03:27Looks can be deceiving.
03:28I'm hurt.
03:29I am.
03:31But I'm sick of crying about stuff that I cannot change.
03:34I'm sick of being disappointed.
03:36I'm sick of all of it.
03:37I'm not.
03:38You're sick of being disappointed.
03:39Obviously, I am.
03:40No, you're not.
03:40If you were sick of being disappointed, you would stand up and you would take control of your destiny.
03:45Do you know that you had a possibility to win?
03:47Do you know that all of America is rooting for you?
03:51When I see this beautiful girl who made some mistakes in the season before and didn't make it,
03:56and then we, you know, worked with her to get her here.
03:59You come in here and look at that and say, I can't read that.
04:01You read ten times better than half of those girls over there.
04:04And then to see her, like, just kind of giving up, I just...
04:08You come in here with a defeatist attitude.
04:10I don't have a bad attitude.
04:11Maybe I am angry inside.
04:13I've been through stuff, so I'm angry.
04:15Yes, but this is not...
04:16Be quiet!
04:17Be quiet!
04:20I have never in my life yelled at a girl like this.
04:23When my mother yells at this, it's because she loves me.
04:26I was rooting for you.
04:27We were all rooting for you.
04:29How dare you?
04:31Tyra really scared all of us.
04:33Like, we literally jumped out of our seats.
04:35What is happening right now?
04:36It was definitely the most difficult moment on set I had ever experienced.
04:41It was ugly.
04:42Learn something from this.
04:44You roll in your eyes and you act like this because you've heard it all before.
04:47You don't know where the hell I come from.
04:49You have no idea what I've been through.
04:51But I'm not a victim.
04:52I grow from it and I learn.
04:54Take responsibility for yourself.
04:57When they were done shooting, production staff literally just, like, took Tyra off set.
05:03It was very scary.
05:05It was like she went off and Tyra never went off.
05:09Tyra must have really saw herself in that girl.
05:13I went too far.
05:15You know, I lost it.
05:17It was probably bigger than her.
05:19It was family, friends, society, black girls, all the challenges that we have.
05:23So many people saying that we're not good enough.
05:25I think all that was in that moment.
05:27That's some black girl stuff that goes real deep inside of me.
05:31But I knew I went too far.
05:33I'm not finna break down for you and nobody else.
05:35You ain't there to me, but bring me here and put me through hell these weeks.
05:38There was a lot more that was really said.
05:41And some of the things that were said were really not well-intentioned.
05:45I will probably never repeat the lines that were actually said in that room that day.
05:49All I know is the next week we had all the lawyers on set.
05:55In all of my interviews, I will always tell people,
05:57I feel like the reason that she yelled at me was because she loved me.
06:01That was bull.
06:01If she loved me, she wouldn't have showed it the way she showed it.
06:06If you love someone, you won't humiliate them.
06:10People have tried to make it something funny, but it really wasn't.
06:21Okay, so it is 12 midnight and we've already started getting the girls ready in hair and makeup.
06:28As I reached cycle eight, I kind of felt things really changing.
06:34We were supposed to be showing the behind the scenes of what the fashion world was,
06:39helping change the industry.
06:42And I just wanted everyone to have their best possible shot.
06:46But the show had evolved.
06:48In a way I'd never expected.
06:52There was this version of me on this show, which was me, but not really me.
06:58Today, we're going to do the most controversial shoot we've ever done on America's Next Top Model.
07:05Because Tyra would always reinforce, we need to keep it entertaining, we need to keep people watching.
07:10So it's like, how can you be entertaining?
07:13I need you to give me that kind of strung out look.
07:18Hey, Michelle, it looks really good.
07:22Did you ever have a moment in which you went to Tyra or to Kim and be like,
07:29I didn't like what you did to these girls.
07:32It was just like, this scene was not cool.
07:36Of course there were gobsmacked moments where you watch and you're like, oof.
07:42Okay, like, but it was certainly not my place to, you know, I would never tell them, I'm like, oh,
07:52you should have never.
07:53And that was slowly depleting me and kind of chipping away at my soul.
08:00So, it was time to tell Tyra that I wanted to leave the show.
08:07Tyra and I, we're at the traditional work relationship.
08:11Tyra and you work in such close proximity and traveling together, you know, it becomes, it's a, it becomes like
08:18a relationship.
08:19And I was afraid of saying the wrong thing.
08:23And I definitely did not want to make her upset.
08:28I tortured myself over the decision.
08:31It did not come lightly.
08:32I didn't discuss it with anyone, Miss J, like nobody, like knew.
08:38J Manuel, he gives everything to his chest.
08:43He's very secretive.
08:46Very, very, very, very, very secretive.
08:49Tyra had made a pact with me around cycle three or four.
08:53She said, when it comes to anything important, let's always promise each other we'll come to each other first.
08:58So, I knew that I had to tell her first.
09:04So, I sent her the email, just expressing the utter gratitude for this opportunity and to be able to help
09:13her realize this.
09:14But also, I was trying to kind of move on in my own life and career.
09:20And she didn't respond.
09:24It was probably the longest three days ever.
09:27And she ultimately wrote back just three words.
09:35I am disappointed.
09:38After that email exchange, all communication just stopped.
09:44It should have been the opportunity to have a heart-to-heart, but that did not happen.
09:48I took a one-week vacation in St. Lucia.
09:52And then reception came with an urgent note for my attorney.
09:58I called my attorney, and he said, this is an ask coming through Business Affairs.
10:04They said, we just need a little more time.
10:07Can you just do one cycle for us?
10:09Just cycle nine.
10:10And then there was a warning that strikes the fear of God in you.
10:18You know, people talk about being blacklisted.
10:22Those words were not used, but I had suspected that that's what it would turn into.
10:28And then I didn't know who to talk to.
10:30Because, honestly, the person I would always talk to was Tyra.
10:38And then I tried to, I thought, I thought, I could fix that.
10:44I just decided, I thought, you know, one season, you know, what could happen?
10:53Take off your blindfolds.
10:55This is your home for the next week.
10:57We had to do the casting episode.
10:59It was on the boat.
11:00I hadn't spoken to Tyra.
11:02I was extremely nervous.
11:03Oh, my God.
11:04So, you know, you get your microphone on and everything, and then we sit down.
11:08I was like, oh, thank God.
11:10I'm thinking a moment.
11:11I can just talk to her.
11:12I'm like, oh, hey, Tyra.
11:13Like, hey, I just wanted to real quick.
11:19And that was the first time I really realized there was a real problem.
11:24She wouldn't speak with me.
11:26It's out right here.
11:28Oh, it's Tyra.
11:29Hey, girl.
11:30And it was clear I didn't know what to do, because I just sat there, and I just was the
11:36girl came in, and we talked.
11:37Come on, Tyra.
11:38I'm a guy.
11:39Okay, I'll just pop you up.
11:39She's like, I guess I'll just sit here.
11:41Six, seven, eight.
11:43And then she leaned over.
11:45She put her arm around me.
11:47What do you think, Jenny?
11:48What do you think about her?
11:50She's, I love her.
11:51The bitchy bitch that I've seen, like, here.
11:53Uh-oh.
11:54Who's the bitchy bitch?
11:55That's what we want to know.
11:58So, on camera, we learned to play, laugh.
12:03But it was just clear I was not allowed to speak with her outside of that, which, after
12:11that first day, I thought, there is absolutely no way I'm going to survive this cycle.
12:17When we were shooting in China, I was tired, and I was scared.
12:22Do I remember inklings of there being some sort of issue here and there?
12:26I do, but I had no idea that it was that raw.
12:30I was still trying to process what was going on.
12:35They always thought that Jay, they wouldn't want to say anything insulting to Tyra.
12:40None of the other girls jump.
12:42Best shoe?
12:43That's her best shoe.
12:44Wow.
12:46I just, it was, it, it was, like, psychological torture.
12:52I, I, I just, I felt broken.
12:58Can we talk now about what happened with you and Jay?
13:03Eh, I prefer, I, yeah, I should call Jay.
13:08I don't want to do this here.
13:10You keep doing yourself.
13:10Yeah, yeah, but he's a special man.
13:16At that point.
13:17Hey, good morning.
13:19My job had changed.
13:20I no longer was producing creative.
13:23The only thing I was responsible for producing per my contract is the final runway.
13:28Anyway, I was now just on-camera talent.
13:34I showed up, hey girls, today's photo shoot is all about da-da-da-da-da-da.
13:40They tell you to stand here, they tell you to stand here and say this, that's your job.
13:44And I started really paying attention to what was starting to happen behind the scenes.
13:52The hair I'm seeing under the-what is up with the armpits, girl?
13:55I thought I was going to get touched.
13:57Oh my God.
13:57I'm really sorry.
13:58I'll go home and shit.
13:58You know how expensive retouching is?
14:00There were definite photos selected that we felt, we were like, wait, what?
14:05The other thing that really worries me is that kind of long drool coming off of your chin.
14:10That makes no sense.
14:12Ken and his team and Tyra, they knew what they were doing.
14:16That is where I started to learn the art of the storytelling.
14:20I would really hate for the judges to say, you know what, she's got the look, she takes
14:24pretty pictures, but she's consistently controlled.
14:28If there were certain girls that were not performing well on a shoot, I would sometimes
14:33be pulled aside and say, okay, this person, we have this story.
14:38We need them to go forward at least a couple more episodes.
14:43Get us there.
14:43We have to let go of the control.
14:45Where do you not feel good enough?
14:47Tell me.
14:47Talk to me.
14:48I don't trust myself.
14:50Because if the photos are just crappy, it will become hard to say this person deserves
14:56to stay in the competition.
14:58Good job.
14:58I'm here.
14:59Before it is a modeling show, it is a television show.
15:02I think Nick is great.
15:04I love this picture of her.
15:05But Nick's personality is so kind of wishy-washy still.
15:09Personality beat out pictures.
15:11Each week that she comes, I am just bored to death.
15:16They didn't always choose our best picture.
15:18You guys used my worst one.
15:20You're saying this is your worst one?
15:22Because the other one, I did the lines perfectly.
15:24Who doesn't think it was their best take?
15:26Initially, they were really trying to pull the best shots.
15:28But as we started getting into story, then it turned into we need better story out of these shots.
15:36So sometimes, and I had no control over this, I lost my control.
15:43When a girl is eliminated, another shot was selected.
15:47You're giving us a sort of a high fashion look, but in fact, you just look sleepy.
15:52Sometimes, not always, it was not her best shot, and there was a better shot.
15:58The lack of ethics behind the scenes to make quote-unquote good TV, it's really disturbing.
16:07Because for these girls, this is their life.
16:10A lot of these girls are like, you know, I want to help my mom out.
16:13I'm stuck at a dead-end job.
16:14I have no other recourse.
16:16It was life or death for them.
16:20There was always been so much more at stake emotionally in Top Model than you have in a
16:27typical reality competition, which is just a game.
16:30Top Model was very different in that the prize was the promise of a career,
16:37the chance to be a model, to become America's next top model.
16:43For the girls that were in this show, this was about trying to achieve your dream.
16:49Dion and Natasha, please step forward.
16:54When I was eliminated, I was fucking shocked.
17:00I became so numb, I couldn't even move.
17:03Did we always get it right? I don't think so. No, I think sometimes we eliminated the wrong person,
17:08but that's the way it goes.
17:10Kayla, when you get that close, you just know it's going to be your picture.
17:15You just know it's going to be you. You know you're going to make it.
17:18I definitely was crushed.
17:21Really, we wanted to be one of the last two.
17:24I really thought it was going to be me.
17:27Maybe we could have done a better job to let them know that not everybody's going to be a star.
17:32I can't go back to doing what I was doing. It was killing me.
17:36What happened is you were filmed packing your bag, exiting the model apartment,
17:43and then a production assistant took you to a hotel room.
17:46You don't go home. Everyone stays with the production until the very end for confidentiality reasons.
17:55There wasn't a phone available to call anybody at that time. And then, of course, even if I did,
18:02I would not have been able to tell them, hey, I've just been eliminated. I couldn't disclose that information.
18:09Did Tyra or any of the producers call you later and say, hey, thanks for being gone?
18:13No.
18:15They were just kind of left, eliminated. It was just awful.
18:24I feel sorry for them, but I just know that it's dog-eat-dog world out there.
18:32In the real world, they eat you up and spit you right out.
18:41As soon as you get off the plane and go back home, reality sets in.
18:46Are you going to take a shot at modeling? Are you going to try and move to New York?
18:50There is no guidance. You have to figure it out on your own.
18:53We were rooting for all of these supermodel hopefuls back in the day.
18:56Listen, I would do Where They Are Now videos for the girls of America's Next Top Model,
19:00but the truth is, I don't really know where they at either.
19:02I wouldn't say that there were clients knocking down doors being like,
19:06we saw Laura on the show. We really want to hire her.
19:10Yeah, things didn't work out the way I was promised and stuff, but life isn't fair,
19:15and you move on.
19:16Well, I'm actually the winner of America's Next Top Model, so sorry,
19:21you're still not what we're looking for.
19:24I couldn't use any of the photos from America's Next Top Model in my actual modeling portfolio.
19:30The photo shoots were way overly themed, way too much makeup.
19:35I got really far in this competition, but then in real life,
19:39I was in the modeling industry, was nobody.
19:44I came to New York several times to take a stab at, you know, trying to get signed to an
19:49agency.
19:51It did not work out.
19:54There was a stigma to being part of a reality series.
19:58Not anymore. People would love to be on a reality series now to get their brand out there,
20:06because now the world is completely different.
20:08What Top Model did was really create the beginning of influencers.
20:14These days, everyone is a supermodel. Everyone is an influencer. Everyone is famous.
20:20There are tons of people out there now going directly to the public without the gatekeepers
20:26that used to be in place.
20:27You take control of your own narrative today. But at that time, it was absolutely not something that you did.
20:35The girls that are successful now are running because the other ones walked first.
20:41We opened the door. We slammed it wide open. And so many came through.
20:48This was a group. Eva the diva, who was 5, 5, 5, 6. Isis, one of the first trans
20:55people on a huge, successful show like that. And Winnie Harlow, as one of the biggest models on
21:03the planet. Whitney, our first plus-size, hate the word, curve model to win.
21:12when i won this was like a big deal that a plus size model was winning on the show
21:20and then of course we got a contract with elite model management and they didn't even have a plus
21:25division so it's like what kind of fucking joke is this i really had to fight for a place
21:33but eventually i ended up being the first plus size model for so many massive companies
21:41and finally these models later were able to get that success but it's on the backs of the ones that
21:48open that door america's next top mob is danielle
22:01oh my god that's me i remember thinking life happens after winning a&tm life begins
22:09literally the 12 year old danielle is like we we're up we won right like we're here we're here
22:17new york professional model like it's only up from here i'm like come on girl mommy i'm a
22:23come on girl but those cameras shut down on top model and they just threw me to the wolves
22:33when i moved to new york in july i moved right into the model's apartment my agent at the time
22:40at
22:40ford called me and she was like you need to come in to the agency
22:47the energy at the agency was just like off-putting it was cold it was a very like cold
22:54interaction and that was the hardest thing because i'm new to the industry i'm signed to you guys but
23:04it was kind of like i was the redhead stepchild or better yet the black sheep like why are you
23:10here
23:11and i sat in the model's apartment for months never going on castings did you know of other
23:19girls around you who weren't on the show that were thriving thriving like i lived in the model's
23:28apartment with chanelle iman who went on to become like a very prominent top model
23:36and i remember her coming home this one day this one morning she's like i finally asked
23:42our agent why you never have castings whenever i go get the castings for all the girls
23:47and she said to me well we have to treat danny differently because she came from top model
23:57that was a hard hard pill to swallow my experiences mirrored that i remember my first show season i
24:08didn't book any shows what i was told was that no one wanted to book me for their shows because
24:16i was
24:17viewed as like this reality star and designers didn't want me walking in the show to take
24:22attention if you will off of their collection and on to myself and so i knew very early on that
24:30oh top model has a stigma
24:34i've already lived 20 years in the real modeling industry and got my ass handed to me
24:40so i was never able to rise to the level that i could have or should have
24:47what angers me the most is the conversation that tyra had with me years later
24:54she told me that
24:58she's like i knew that there were certain doors that you couldn't even get into
25:03because you did top model and i did nothing about it
25:09and she said to me i always rode the fence with you
25:21and that's when i said respectfully tyra you have no fucking idea
25:34but for you to admit to me all these years 15 years later i know the hell that you've been
25:40going through i know that you couldn't even walk through the threshold of certain doors
25:44and so to have her a black woman say to me
25:51over the phone that i knew you were struggling and i did nothing about it
25:56what
25:58you don't gotta support me you don't even gotta like me but don't
26:01see me in my suffering and just walk past me
26:05that's so fucked up
26:10they built a whole empire
26:12multi-million dollar brand known as america's next top model
26:16off the backs of every girl's dream that did that show
26:19and it never became realized
26:23the vast majority of the girls
26:26were kind of right back at square one or even worse
26:32after the show
26:34i felt really broken
26:38can you tell me what happened with tyra
26:40later on
26:41when she invited you to her talk show
26:45um
26:46it's a top model reunion today
26:48and don't forget to check out season five
26:49when it premieres tonight on ucn
26:53she was asking me about what happened in milan
26:56and i told her i'd never seen it
26:58it just brought up too many things
26:59and then i was like i can't watch the show anymore
27:02and then she just puts it on the screen in front of me
27:05i'm gonna roll a little clip that a lot of us remember
27:15and i don't look at it
27:17she's like i noticed you weren't looking
27:19fanny you weren't watching that
27:20i thought you were looking down
27:21how come you can't watch that
27:22i just can't do it
27:23really
27:24it brings back like all the old stuff
27:26oh yeah
27:27i'm like i literally told you behind the scenes
27:29like don't i've never seen it i don't want to see it
27:32don't show it
27:33you didn't respect that
27:35at all
27:38that was awful
27:40that was miserable
27:43miserable
27:45that behavior doesn't stop
27:49her behavior doesn't
27:50doesn't change
27:52everybody wants to know
27:53did you know
27:53are you still with your boyfriend
27:54no i'm single now
27:55you're single
27:56yeah
27:57why did you guys break up
27:58um well he couldn't get over it
28:00he couldn't get over that
28:01but you guys were together for like
28:02i remember after you were together
28:04me and eric we tried
28:08but he really tried
28:09i mean he moved with me to new york
28:13after the show
28:15but it would suck when i'd be walking with eric down the street
28:18and somebody recognized me and call me a slut to my face
28:23marching in horror
28:23eric standing right next to me
28:26that was fun
28:28it made me hate myself
28:31if you want drama
28:32try putting 13 inspiring young models in a house to see
28:35who will become america's next top model
28:37i am proud of my top model girls
28:43after top model
28:44we thought one of us was gonna
28:49be with a top modeling agency
28:51and that was gonna be our new career
28:57no
29:00were you the one that went
29:01was on that modeling thing
29:03oh
29:04still working on wall
29:08you're all going to be blind
29:11as a bat
29:12i don't like semen
29:14ignite that flame
29:16shooting
29:17in a greek salad
29:18no
29:23as the show
29:24went on
29:25dawn had left
29:28and there was a new president that came in
29:30mark pedowitz
29:32i remember
29:32i was getting a phone call
29:34from the network
29:35every day
29:35saying they need to talk to me
29:37they need to talk to me
29:39and i just kept putting it off
29:41putting it off
29:42putting it off
29:43my assistant would be telling me this
29:45they really need to talk to you
29:46they really need to talk to you
29:48and finally
29:50the head of the network
29:51he said
29:52get her on the phone
29:53now
29:56i took his call
29:57and i'll never forget
30:00he said
30:02the show is the biggest thing in the world
30:05but it will always be
30:07and it's taking a dip
30:10the head of the network said
30:12the show is in a mature phase
30:13and
30:14we need to make a significant change
30:16and there are no
30:18sacred
30:19cows
30:22you have to
30:23let go
30:24of
30:26this
30:26this
30:27and this
30:29three of my hearts
30:34mr j
30:34miss j
30:36and nigel
30:38it shocked me
30:40i was like
30:40what
30:41there was no need
30:42to replace them
30:45for my birthday
30:46tyra
30:47sent me flowers
30:48i said
30:50oh
30:50how sweet
30:51it was a note
30:52happy birthday
30:53love tyra
30:56and then
30:57um
30:57i was fired
30:58five days later
31:02eleven girls
31:03stand before me
31:04but i only have
31:05ten
31:06photos
31:07in my hands
31:09i
31:09remember them saying
31:10we've decided we're gonna go in a completely different direction
31:13we were not gonna be renewed
31:15the girl that i do not call
31:16must immediately
31:17return to your house
31:19pack your belongings
31:21and go home
31:22you want to talk about being slapped across the face
31:24and then slapped right back
31:26if i honestly had to publish this picture
31:28i would crop you right out of it
31:29come on give me a break
31:31i was just finding the show
31:33you look like when moses parked the red seat that you were on the other side fishing
31:36that's how old you look
31:37and then bye
31:39ratings are down
31:40we're cutting the fat off the show that bringing the ratings down was the implication
31:45that it was us three
31:46that was really tough
31:48it was somewhat mercenary
31:50unless you are tyra banks i'm afraid you're expendable and they will swap you out just like that
32:02as people got eliminated on our show we also got eliminated we have three cards in front of us and
32:09none of you have made it
32:12so tyra what did you think of um her that is in your light trust me
32:18what did i think what'd you think what is this for i don't know just a different angle
32:22don't put it on your website
32:24don't put it on my website
32:26when i wanted to leave
32:29i wasn't afforded that
32:31and then
32:32i work on this show
32:35from cycles
32:3610 through 18
32:38i made so many concessions
32:45that's the part that's the most hurtful
32:49we were going to put out one joint press release
32:53and they said we would all get a quote in this press release
32:56we see it all the time in television shows people saying
33:00so-and-so and so-and-so have decided to part ways
33:04an entire way she's like we'll put out in our press release how you know we're going to continue to
33:08work together
33:08and blah blah blah
33:09so we agreed to that
33:13tyra banks has fired her panel of experts
33:16oh my god
33:17there was a leak to page six that said the three of us were fired
33:22banks booted judges nigel barker j manuel and miss j
33:26in a stunning top model house cleaning
33:28i said oh
33:30a leak to page six
33:32that show the way we ran confidentiality and we're on these conference calls
33:35there's no leak to page six
33:37anyone can assume where that came from
33:40you now put that out there that way and we can't undo that no matter what we say
33:44i mean that's the double slap that's the part that you you you then have to live with
33:49that was probably the uh the lowest point for me
33:55nigel i just remember him being and i didn't know him to be this way i could feel it was
34:02quite palpable how upset he was
34:06it was difficult because i didn't have a backup plan at that point because i had been on top model
34:12for 17 seasons
34:13and had been really in the show kind of growing up with my family on america's next top model it
34:18was disappointing
34:19and it i felt a little bit like betrayed
34:23why would you not allow people who've been a part of your show since its inception to move forward in
34:30their career with grace
34:32it gives people their dignity
34:36it was very deliberate
34:40i'd heard them say on set many times
34:44what do we got to do to create drama
34:51we were going to be the drama for the very first time the three stars of america's next
34:56top model were all just fired by tyra banks in their first tv interview together as soon as the
35:03news broke you guys saw the headlines i'm sure as soon as they were coming out and all said judges
35:06fired that's how people were putting it do you feel blindsided by what happened
35:11i think more than anything i feel a little sad well i got flowers last week sent to me by
35:17tyra to
35:19soften the blow that's what i kind of thought i said to myself hmm i just stepped in like this
35:27what i'm also interested to know is if this in any way is kind of a relief i mean let's
35:32face it
35:33i worked with tyra from way back when her reputation precedes her she is tough to work for
35:39and then of course the question that was posed directly to me how tough was tyra to work for
35:47jay grabs my knee like go ahead girl like it's like jay like why are you doing this to me
35:56we had to speak very carefully you know contractually at the time you know there are only certain
36:02things you can speak about around production and what have you legally ken tyra they were all
36:09watching us live i know that and i just thought she's waiting for my answer and um well you know
36:16here's the thing i'm i'm a perfectionist too i usually demand a lot you know for people who work with
36:22me no it's true he's like no i can't you know it is and i think that was actually our
36:27initial
36:27i still really respected her as a model and a business mind in terms of her being specifically
36:34difficult or rude that's not tyrus she's she's not the type of person to walk out and she just has
36:40a
36:40very strong work ethic and and knows what she wants we all do yes let me just ask you it
36:45felt like the
36:46culmination of how our entire relationship and how i always viewed her i have to do something to fix
36:55and bridge the gap like i that's how i looked at it and that's just who i was
37:02fierce and love to my nigel barker mr j manuel and miss j america's next top model turn us into
37:09a family
37:10that was probably some of the hardest news i have ever had to deliver in my existence
37:15i cried myself to sleep that night you know they were there from the beginning
37:22best friend in the bed coming up with photo shoots
37:26backstage at fashion shows hanging laying on them some of the closest people to me in my life
37:32and me and ken have to deliver that news that the deal is up that it is over you can
37:41imagine what
37:42that feels like but bosses have bosses and the big boss was very clear there are no sacred cows
37:52and i heard that meaning you too tyra so pick up the phone and do what i'm telling you to
37:59do
38:03and the thing is i don't believe that they knew that it came from above
38:10no matter how much ken and i were explaining this was not our decision
38:16to this day i think they think that it was me and ken yeah she was willing to do anything
38:25for her show
38:26however you want to look at that clearly even in that situation she would do anything for the success of
38:32her show
38:42patrick i'm totally freaking out right now ty why it's the 19th cycle oh 19th cycle i need a whole
38:49new direction for the new season a total h2t makeover it's got to be fierce it's got to be totally
38:54amazing
38:55it's got to be a lot of reality shows fall into this trap of trying to stay relevant this cycle
39:06i
39:06opened up the competition exclusively to girls five seven and under trying to reinvent you think you're
39:12about to see a typical episode of top model don't you i'm going to take a cue from twitter king
39:16and
39:16ultimate prankster himself ashton kutcher and so they lean on gimmicks they jump the shark i went through all
39:24the past cycles and brought back your favorite i made everything bigger i'm talking celebrities as
39:31mentors the kardashians ready set the fire kind of went out a little bit the british are coming the
39:40british are coming hey the best rick for the best yank win it hit me after graduating from harvard
39:46we just have to do a college cycle all of these big changes that kind of reeked of desperation was
39:55just writing on the wall i'm making you a judge you the fan have a voice in the judging room
40:01they
40:02thought by us leaving that people would come back and watch to see what the new guard was like and
40:08it
40:08was going to be a ratings bump the ratings went down dramatically and then continued to decline quite
40:14rapidly up to now you know there were no boys allowed on top model but that was then and this
40:19is now i can smize it just felt like this empire was crumbling right before our eyes
40:30it's very important that when you touch your booty that you don't hoochie tooch it she is
40:36coo coo each and every girl on the planet has a chance to be one of the elite top model's
40:43very
40:44first face wave pop medium is a twist on top model i don't think you deserve for me to tell
40:50you what
40:51that means over 100 million this is some nonsense like i don't even like what are we doing
41:08after cycle 22 the network came back to me and said we don't want tyra to be the host of
41:12the show
41:16and i'm like you're crazy she is the show
41:21no sacred cows
41:26this is my baby that was my life it was like my right hand was gone welcome to america's next
41:35top
41:35model
41:38they replaced tyra we got a new host and you know everything changed and that's when i was like
41:46i'm logging off they've lost the plot
41:53america's next top model stayed on the air for 24 cycles and by the end
41:59we kind of mutually decided that we didn't want to do it anymore it had run its course times were
42:04changing and it was probably just time to put it down and do something different
42:11what happened after the show is because i became known for doing such elaborate photo shoots i also
42:18got booked to do those sorts of shoots in real life i shot an entire book with taylor swift
42:24i ended up working with miss universe and miss usa you don't already know if you're living under a
42:30rock it is jay manual people knew me as a personality so i ended up with a contract with ee
42:36i did a cosmetic company and eventually i wrote a novel the wig the bench and the meltdown the book
42:43is really inspired by my life in the whole kind of crazy world of reality tv and the entertainment
42:49industry let's just be clear it's a novel jay has just been off on a top monitor i went out
42:59to do
42:59job on russia china as well i am here with jay alexander a legend in the fashion world and a
43:08huge part
43:09of the success of our fashion program at scab i was at scab for 15 years how do i maintain
43:18my icon
43:19status very simple be me and being authentic i have always been authentic
43:28but then everything changed
43:36okay so here's my room that i i have been living in it for one year and five months maybe
43:52on december 27th of 2022 i had a stroke
44:01then i woke up i didn't know where i was other than in the hospital
44:12i turned five weeks in a coma and i couldn't walk
44:18i couldn't talk
44:22and i thought to myself what was i going to do and then i couldn't walk and i couldn't speak
44:34it was emotional i cried i'm not ashamed to say that i cried and then once i was in hospital
44:46that um jay and niger came to visit
44:51i don't know whether he even wanted me to see him in that way i was going to go see
44:55him
44:57and that was just such a terrible shock and really upsetting and horrifying and scary
45:07i could feel how upset he was for sure i can only imagine where he was in his mind you
45:14know when he
45:15saw me he was like happy to see me and the two of us cried together and i held him
45:21i thought back to how we used to do shows together i cried because i just missed them so much
45:34you're looking great jay thank you this hair though i'm sick with because it's just so pretty
45:40long i know i'm glad we are together and um we're glad too mate it's really good to see you
45:52mate
45:54yeah it's really special it has been a journey and you're speaking so much better now
46:01yeah you are battling through when we first saw you in that hospital you could hardly move hardly talk
46:08and now you're sitting up doing an interview chatting talking rolling your eyes making us laugh
46:12mm-hmm you know it's a long journey but it's you're going to get there
46:16i know it's been really really hard mate
46:23the thing is you're here though that's the thing
46:26i know
46:46i miss being the queen little one eh the cat walks of course
46:53i'm the person who took miles out of walk
46:58i took miles out of walk and now i can't walk
47:04not yet not yet i'm determined to walk i'm sure you're going to see me again i'm sure
47:14it's not it's not all for me yet do you want to take a selfie since our last selfie was
47:202019
47:20come on then we gotta do it
47:24all right we're gonna wipe the lens
47:27okay
47:28we're gonna do it
47:33did tyra come and visit you no not yet
47:38she just sent me um a text the um she wants to come and visit me but um no not
47:48yet
47:53tyra how you doing tyra
47:56hello tyra banks here i am a supermodel turned super business woman after the show i had so many
48:04different ideas for my life i'm obsessed with pivoting the fashion icon has launched a flagship
48:11ice cream store in sydney and i live in australia now i feel like my work is not done
48:20you have no idea what we have planned for cycle 25
48:29with everything you went through would you ever do top model again
48:35i would say do it at your own risk
48:40of course i'd love to do something like that again but not do that again if you know what i
48:45mean
48:46it didn't age well but it was also a reflection of the time that's exactly how it was the only
48:53reason the door was open to me was because of tyra i do feel like tyra's intentions in the beginning
49:01we're good but that got lost we were very young girls and we were put into a very mature adult
49:09world
49:10really fast that was hard we were just girls
49:17i had a young person woke up to me yesterday and they were like weren't you on that show
49:24that's amazing to see how the show has impacted so many people for so long
49:30so yeah tyra banks very much disappointed me but at the end of the day we're at a place now
49:36where we
49:36can say you know what this is not acceptable let's do something different this has been a long time
49:41coming i'm re-watching america's next top model hard show to watch in hindsight there's a lot of
49:47darkness and top model that makes me look at it differently than i did when i was a kid
49:54looking at that show through the lens of today it's like whoa why did you do that why did you
49:59do
49:59that okay tyra said yeah she made some she did some you know she said some
50:04and i thank you for that that is the only way you change that is the only way you get
50:10better
50:10is by somebody calling you out on your shit it is important and i want to let you know that
50:19i want
50:20you guys to be just as open as i am now about getting called on my shit for when somebody
50:25calls
50:25you out on yours because that day will come and continue to evolve because that's what we're all
50:32doing girl that is absolutely ridiculous perfect time to stop thank you i mean i can hang out it's not
50:46like if you want what have you been up to yeah i got the keys to the city i got
50:54all keys to the city girl
50:58it's cute here i am now i'm a small business owner as well as a realtor i was thinking i
51:04was going to
51:05be an actress and which i am and will become and there's great roles out there for me so go
51:09ahead
51:09producers make it work i auditioned for a home improvement show and i got got it and it changed
51:15my life completely starting my own business and construction and carpentry hung up the heels
51:21grab my tool belt did real estate in manhattan as a rental agent for six or seven years hated it
51:28and then i joined a theater group in new york and so i'm back actually ended up buying this really
51:36cute little ice cream shop called the pink pelican we travel the world and have ice cream that's that's
51:42my life now so you and ty are having ice cream i know what the she copied me okay i
51:48had the ice cream
51:48shop first i started working with violent offenders leading trauma-informed care and i love it it's very
51:57hard but this is the most fulfilling work that i have done yet i take care of animals for a
52:03living
52:04i want to live on a farm and have like a sanctuary for animals
52:09you know i've always loved animals dissolving my contract and walking away from the industry
52:16it's been the best decision of my life getting to know danielle not danny but danielle i just felt
52:23like the industry was vain i was like i want purpose i want to impact someone's life i learned so
52:31much
52:31about god's grace i am now a post coach helping develop aspiring models that they understand hey you
52:41don't have to be a particular size you don't have to be a particular weight there's space for you and
52:46if there isn't space for you we're going to make this space
53:30what's very accurate really beneficial you don't have to be a therapist i have to make this space
53:30i want to give patientslly aden
53:31so it's very easy the so it's a good idea your carenan that i think i need to
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