- 7 weeks ago
Category
📺
TVTranscript
00:04You
00:04I'm not sure if I'm gonna go in. Really? Yeah, you'll be fine be cold to drown it. Oh
00:14Maybe you try it for a bit. I'll go first
00:21Scaredy cat
00:30You
00:50No prints nothing taken or disturbed
00:57No, unfortunately the the blood sample wasn't big enough for the lab to get a full DNA read
01:05It's disappointing well, I
01:09Really thought it was enough for a full sample apparently not
01:14What about the glove mark not enough resolution for them to do anything with you know took photos of the
01:19house
01:20right after the break-in
01:23Nothing was touched no
01:26Or they put everything back in its place, which is what you would do if you're installing a listening device
01:31I've applied for warrants to do exactly that you're a copper serious crime squad covert surveillance unit counter-corruption
01:38I'm innocent
01:41Well, I mean um
01:43As you know
01:46We've done a couple of sweeps
01:49Nothing
01:52So um
01:53There's not much more we can do
01:57Okay
01:59I
02:22I
02:24I
02:36I
02:37I
02:39I
02:42I
02:45I
02:50I
02:51I
03:02I
03:03I
03:03I
03:05I
03:05I
03:05I
03:05I
03:05I
03:06I
03:08I
03:10I
03:11I
03:11I
03:12I
03:14I
03:15I
03:15I
03:15I
03:18I
03:19I
03:19I
03:20I
03:20I
03:21I
03:21I
03:24I
03:27I
03:28I
03:29I
03:29I
03:39I
03:40I
03:40I
03:42I
03:46I
03:48I
03:54I
03:55I
03:56I
03:57I
04:04I
04:05I
04:05I
04:05I
04:05I
04:05I
04:06I
04:06I
04:06I
04:06I
04:09I
04:18I
04:20I'm not going to do that, I'm not going to hang on to my balls.
04:24You know, the other day when this happened, the first thing I did was pick up the phone to you.
04:31Yeah, no, I did see it, yeah.
04:33You probably saw it, I hung up.
04:37Yeah, I just think that what we need now is we need a whistleblower.
04:43And we need someone from inside the agency.
04:47And high up.
04:48From the top.
04:51Eileen said that we must be making a difference.
04:53Did she?
04:54Yeah, she did.
04:55So, come on, let's...
04:56That's the point, isn't it?
04:58Yeah, we are.
04:58There's no point doing this unless we make a difference.
05:00No, let's keep going.
05:01Let's keep going and let's find that fucking whistleblower.
05:04Right.
05:06June 2019.
05:07Sir James Bevan Environment Agency.
05:10Dear Sir James, I'm writing to your office as I'm sure you will know where to direct the question.
05:14October 2019.
05:16Dear Sir James, I wrote to you to raise concerns about a serious integrity issue involving the agency.
05:23Dear Sir James, 34 days have now passed since I sent you evidence.
05:27I've given up expecting a reply from you.
05:31Dear Ashley, I am in the receipt of your email to Sir James.
05:41Would you mind coming to our office?
05:42And would the 19th suit?
05:55Is Sir James not coming?
05:57I'm afraid not.
05:58No, Sir James wouldn't routinely attend meetings at this kind of level.
06:02I'd hoped he'd be here.
06:04He's time, Paul.
06:06He's aware of your work.
06:07Well, we're trying to find out what you're going to do about the illegal sewage overflow at Borton.
06:14The combined storm overflow.
06:15The combined storm overflow at Burton has shown no detectable effects on the water quality.
06:21The water quality is stable and not deteriorating.
06:24I mean, our data shows very clearly that we have the best quality water since the Industrial Revolution.
06:31The water's turned brown.
06:32Yeah.
06:33It's turned so brown that when it joins the Thames at Newbridge, it makes the Thames look like a Swiss
06:38mountain stream.
06:40The water is brown in places, but that's a natural phenomenon.
06:45It's caused by geological faults.
06:46It's also a geological fault.
06:48Yeah.
06:49Yeah.
06:49Sorry, a geological fault is millions of years old.
06:53We remember when the water was clear.
06:55No one remembers the good old days before the geological fault.
06:58In the last 12 months since we installed sensors, there's been no evidence of pollution.
07:03Well, that's because you've installed the monitors upstream from the sewage pipes.
07:06Now, is that incompetence or an attempt to cover up a scandal?
07:10No, no.
07:10The agency would never position a monitor to achieve a particular reading.
07:14We are working extremely hard to transform the environment.
07:16We've improved and protected something like, I think it's 15,000 kilometers of river.
07:22It's like, but you've had 92 complaints from the general public about sewage pollution.
07:27Well, that's just the wind rush.
07:29I've actually got the breakdown here.
07:32Yeah, yeah.
07:35In 36 of those cases, there was no offense.
07:39And in 39, there was insufficient evidence.
07:44And in 6, we were unable to identify the offender.
07:49What do you mean you couldn't identify the offenders?
07:51Why can't you identify the offenders?
07:52There's seven sewage works along the wind rush.
07:55They're all run by Thames Water.
07:56I mean, you say you've got insufficient evidence, but we keep giving you the evidence.
08:00All we ever do is give you the evidence.
08:02And all we get back is it's under investigation.
08:04And then nothing, nothing, nothing ever happens.
08:08In exceptional circumstances, for example, after heavy rain, the sewage systems are allowed to overflow.
08:15No, no, no, no.
08:17You see, that's not the law.
08:18The law is that in all normal climatic conditions, including heavy rainfall, the water companies have to treat the sewage.
08:25They have to make it safe before they put it back into the river.
08:29The law is a grey area.
08:30No, no, it's not a grey area with respect.
08:32It's the law.
08:33Sorry, can I, sorry.
08:37Thames is that their own data, it shows they stopped treating sewage at North Leach for more than three months.
08:46Now, they told us that their sensors have broken down, but we think they're lying.
08:54They're lying, so why would they do that?
08:57Why would they lie to you?
08:59Why would they lie to you?
09:29They don't want to make a regulator, but they won't let us do our job.
09:32Okay.
09:34When Cameron and Truss gutted the agency, we went from regulating the industry to doing its bidding.
09:41Do you think they could take your number?
09:43Just keep going.
09:47this is going to be the first government in modern history that at the end of its parliamentary term
09:53has less regulation in place than there was at the beginning we've now identified those 3 000
09:59regulations that we're going to scrap let's reduce the amount and the burden of regulation
10:03strangled by retaining back uh the health and safety mom's cut guidance by 80 percent and we
10:08reduce farm inspections by 34 000 every year regulations will none of my ministers could
10:14introduce a regulation unless they abolished one at the same time massively reduce the number of rules
10:19laws and regulations that frankly treat all of you like idiots
10:27so really it's about stripping out as much unnecessary regulation as possible and taking
10:34responsibility for climate change and saying what more can we do to get us to net zero as you know
10:41this is a passion project for sir james who feels that we can bring our car usage down by 70
10:50percent
10:50yeah it's yeah so from next month we're going to be taking the bold decision to cut back decisively on
11:00our car leases
11:04yeah sorry just like to clarify what you you're going to get rid of our cars so it's about reducing
11:14the agency's carbon footprint just getting that yeah go ahead hannah the cars that we drive to the
11:22inspections in right yeah so so self-monitoring and and a more desk-based regulation is really it's
11:29really helping us move the needle on climate change
11:35but the room the remaining inspections yeah how do we get to those without a car yeah
11:45it's a great question it's a really great question and we'll take that forward to the
11:50next discussion meeting thanks hannah yeah lovely thanks everyone not easy news to break is it
11:55it's a surprise debbie's got something to say i know i know i know my car everyone's driving cars
12:00we're the environment agency absolutely what's wrong with the train i'll keep mine i think so yeah
12:04yeah coffee how do i get a coffee does anybody know what we're looking at anybody okay could you
12:15tell me what the reactants are so if you move your head even slightly the vertigo gets more intense
12:20yeah and the attacks happening maybe twice a week about that yeah
12:29the good news is that you don't have cancer
12:32we actually think it's meniere's it's a disease of the inner ear the main symptom is acute vertigo episodes
12:40vomiting tinnitus it's a pretty neat fit with your presentation
12:48they were dumping sewage in the water uh the last time before i got sick
12:54right uh you know that from the surface against sewage app
12:58okay might that be the causes are unclear it's post-viral this often starts with an ear infection
13:07you know they're common in surfers yeah every surfer i know
13:13this is a chronic condition i'm afraid there's no cure
13:38so should we leave the table a ways just hold his back
14:08so by ending on-site inspections into categories three and four
14:13no or low impact pollution events and doubling down
14:17on the more serious category one and two incidents
14:21we think we can turn ourselves into a more effective fighting unit
14:26yeah so from today we are ending on-site inspections for cats three and four
14:31any questions
14:34well yeah um
14:37a category three incident can be two kilometers of sewage
14:43we want you to not inspect to not spend time on these incidents
14:49except that since the water companies have been self-reporting
14:54they almost always only report categories three's and four's so they're not actually reporting
15:00serious incidents and so if the water companies are only reporting three's and four's and we're
15:06no longer allowed to investigate
15:08so what are we going to be doing
15:11i've told the government you get the regulation you pay for
15:14we no longer have the money to go on inspecting low-grade pollution events
15:19we need you to shut down these reports as unsubstantiated
15:22or to silently pass them and to not report them as pollution incidents
15:27is that clear
15:33yeah thank you thanks everyone
15:35you're on with your day
15:47we had to fuck
15:48fucking wankers
15:50how are you going to get to fucking work
15:52fuck nice
15:54horseback
16:03what time did he call you
16:04i passed ten last night
16:06he said he couldn't miss it
16:20oh my god look at that
16:26i'll get some shots and we'll call the agency on the way back
16:44I'll see you next time.
17:29I'll see you next time.
17:52I'll see you next time.
17:59I'll see you next time.
17:59What for?
18:02Someone keeps calling up and complaining about the same incident.
18:06It's near the bridge at Hawkrise, so I'm going to go and take a look.
18:11Okay.
18:12A bit of freelance investigation.
18:13A bit of freelance.
18:14And also, he needs to be off the books.
18:17And I need you to promise me not to tell Sophie.
18:21I couldn't tell Sophie.
18:22You couldn't tell Sophie?
18:23I'll see you next time.
18:24I'll see you next time.
18:51I'll see you next time.
18:53Hi.
18:54Hi.
18:55Is that Justine?
18:58Hi, Justine.
18:59It's Hannah from the Environment Agency.
19:03Listen, it's about the pollution event at Hawkrise.
19:09It came through the system at a duration of 1.34 hours.
19:13And I'm here now.
19:14And it's still going.
19:18Yeah, yeah.
19:20I'm here now.
19:21Yeah.
19:22The CSO's still discharging untreated sewage.
19:26I mean, there's a section of the river that is covered over with dried sewage.
19:31I mean, these dead fish, you can see them from the footpath.
19:34I mean, you're going to get more complaints.
19:36You need to sort this.
19:42Can you prepare and cook a simple meal unaided?
19:47Yeah.
19:48But not when I'm having an attack.
19:51Then I can't do anything.
19:52I can't move.
19:53Can you eat and drink unaided?
19:56Yeah, but again, not when I'm having an attack.
20:01I've been getting the attacks every few days for the past six months.
20:05But if you're not having one of your attacks, can you eat and drink unaided?
20:09Yeah, but...
20:10Yes or no is fine.
20:12Yes.
20:15Can you dress and undress unaided?
20:20It's the same answer.
20:22Moving on to the mobility section of this assessment.
20:25Can you plan and follow a journey unaided?
20:31Yeah, but not when I'm having an attack.
20:33Standard move for 200 metres.
20:37Not when I'm having an attack.
20:39Well, you know, can you move around, walk for 200 metres?
20:42Of course I can, but not when I'm having an attack.
20:44OK.
20:45Thank you, Mr Santa.
20:46Your total score for the daily living part of the assessment is zero points.
20:51Your total score for the mobility section is zero points.
20:55When you're not having an attack, you're able to do all the tasks I asked you about.
20:58That's the thing with my condition is that sometimes I can do these things and other times I can't.
21:04When I can't, I can't, I can't do anything.
21:07I can't award you a personal independence payment.
21:08I don't know what to do.
21:09If you need further guidance about how to appeal, you can use the web chat to get some help.
21:15If you cannot access the web chat, you can contact the benefits appeal helpline on 0300...
21:31Hannah.
21:32Sorry.
21:32Sorry, I didn't mean to scare you.
21:34Do you have a second?
21:36Can I have a word?
21:36Of course.
21:37Yeah?
21:38OK.
21:38So I just got off the phone to Justine Wright Phillips at the water company.
21:42Yeah?
21:43Yeah.
21:43Yeah, she said, she said you called her.
21:45Yeah.
21:46I...
21:46Yeah, you...
21:47I did.
21:48OK.
21:48She said you called her from the site.
21:51Well, I saw that it had been logged on the system for the fifth time and people kept
21:55calling up complaining and nobody was doing anything about it, so I...
21:57But we don't have the revenue to be investigating Category 3.
22:03It's not a Category 3, Sophie.
22:06The river is dried over with excrement.
22:08You can see it from...
22:09Yeah, so that's what I wanted to talk to you about.
22:11So Justine says that the dispersal rate in that area is really high.
22:16Is it?
22:17I...
22:17Yeah, she says...
22:17She says there's like a strong current and a high dispersal rate...
22:20The overflow pipe has been discharging for over 36 hours and it is still going.
22:24All right, that's...
22:25Untreated.
22:25That is the water company's responsibility to report to us.
22:29You know this.
22:32OK?
22:32OK.
22:32And Justine says that actually, really, the...
22:35Because of the high dispersal rate, that it should come down to a Category 4.
22:41Be a Category 4?
22:42Yes.
22:43Right.
22:43Mm-hmm.
22:51Oh, you want me to change it on the system?
22:58Would you?
22:58Could you?
22:59Yeah?
23:00OK.
23:01Thanks so much.
23:02That's great.
23:03Lovely.
23:12So, you see how well we're doing?
23:13Yeah, of course.
23:15What are you joking?
23:15I'm not joking.
23:17You know SROIC?
23:19No, what's that?
23:21Strategic Review of Incident Charges.
23:23Yeah, it's like what we charge the clients for permits and that.
23:26So, we don't have clients, Cheryl.
23:27No.
23:28We're an environment agency.
23:29Sorry.
23:30Yes.
23:30We don't have clients.
23:32But, Sir James has put the prices up, yeah?
23:35And I'm talking, like, up, up.
23:37Big time.
23:39Well, he's charging the water companies more.
23:41Yup.
23:42Well, surely they've gone down to the government, like, lobbying them, going mad.
23:46Yeah, again, the charges are taken down.
23:47No.
23:48Not a peep.
23:49Not a...
23:50Not a peep.
23:51They're just paying it.
23:53We've basically had such a high revenue spike, yeah?
23:57That we are on our way to becoming a client-funded regulator.
24:04Sorry, wait, hold on one minute.
24:05This is going a bit...
24:06So, you're saying that the water companies are funding the Environment Agency.
24:12Wow.
24:12That's what you're...
24:14What's happening?
24:14You see the issues there.
24:16You can't be serious.
24:17A client-funded regulator.
24:22Amazing, isn't it?
24:22How can that even be a thing?
24:25It's a thing.
24:26Well, hold on, because literally, the other day, Sir James said that you get the regulation
24:31that you pay for.
24:32Yeah.
24:32That we haven't got the money to do the investigations that we used to do.
24:37We're not...
24:37Nobody's paying for them.
24:38Okay.
24:38That's your area, isn't it?
24:40I mean...
24:41All I know is that we have got more cash than we've ever had before.
24:47Just making conversation.
24:51I've got the job.
24:53Hostman?
24:53Mm-hmm.
24:54No?
24:54Yeah.
24:55Did you?
24:55Yeah.
24:56Oh, good one.
24:57Yeah, really good timing.
25:00Uh-huh.
25:01Because I did two pregnancy tests this morning.
25:05What?
25:06And, yeah, I'm pregnant.
25:08What?
25:09Yeah.
25:10No.
25:11Yeah.
25:12Yeah.
25:13I sort of just had a funny feeling, and then, yeah, did one test, two lines, and then I
25:19did another test, and it set two lines as well, and I was like, fuck.
25:33I'm Susan Davey.
25:35I am the CEO of Southwest Water.
25:37Basically, the wet weather events put a strain on our Victorian networks.
25:43And, unfortunately, we have a Victorian sewage system which we have inherited, and that means
25:50things do go wrong.
25:51How do you say Victorian sewage network?
25:5312%.
25:5412?
25:5512%?
25:56What's 12%?
25:5712% of the sewage system is Victorian.
26:01What do they tell you?
26:02That the whole of the system was Victorian, so that meant that the investment would be
26:07so high that it'd be impossible to actually fix it all.
26:11Bollocks!
26:12Should I tell you what stopped it?
26:14When privatization came in, they just stopped spending.
26:17After the war, they kept upgrading.
26:19Then after privatization came in, they just stopped.
26:23Not just Thames, all of them.
26:276% new plants is privatization.
26:296%?
26:306%?
26:31Is that all?
26:31You know what would be good?
26:32If we could maybe come and visit one of the works?
26:35I'm sorry about that.
26:36Well, I'd have to see, lads, honestly, because even just doing this, I feel a bit nervous.
26:42Fucking London Stadium.
26:43That's not a proper stadium.
26:45Fucking massive.
26:46Upton Park.
26:46Now that was a proper stadium, mate.
26:48London Stadium's too big.
26:49You fucking binoculars, you know what I mean?
26:51Yeah.
26:52Sorry, Pete, did you want to see an EDM?
26:54Oh, yes, yes, that's right.
26:55Well remembered.
26:56So this is an event duration monitor.
26:59Now we fitted one of these on every sewage pipe in England.
27:03In 2012, right, the coalition government, they ordered all the water companies to record how much time they spend dumping
27:11raw sewage.
27:12These little units, they measure how much poo goes into the river by hours.
27:16Management have been dragging their feet for eight years now.
27:19But we're finally getting most of it in now.
27:22And the agency, they've got to publish their numbers?
27:25They have to, by law.
27:26They're not going to like it, but tough shit.
27:30EDMs.
27:32Yes.
27:35So, we are finalizing plans for the statutory publication of the EDM numbers.
27:44As you know, there have been some technical delays, but it looks like they're almost ready.
27:52And they're going to come as a bit of a shock.
27:56The data is going to show that the water companies discharged raw sewage 400,000 times in 2020.
28:06That's 1,100 times a day for a total of 3.1 million hours.
28:16That's a bit of a shocker.
28:18Can I just say that since operator self-monitoring, we've had to rely on the water companies to report back
28:26to us?
28:27I think that the key here is that this doesn't get framed as a failure of regulation.
28:32That would be quite wrong.
28:35And I think managing comms on this is going to be key.
28:38And we are working actively with the water companies to bear down on the problem.
28:46Yeah.
28:46But that's 1,100 criminal offences a day.
28:51Well, that's actually, that's debatable because that depends on the terms of the permits and the circumstances around each spill.
28:57Yeah.
28:58And we know the legislation permits discharging after heavy rainfall.
29:01No, it doesn't.
29:04Sorry, Hannah.
29:05The law doesn't say that you can just dump sewage after heavy rain.
29:09It says that in all normal, climatic and seasonal circumstances, the water companies have to treat the sewage, not just
29:16dump it.
29:17It's not the agency's job to adjudicate legal matters.
29:20I mean, this is actually a matter for the courts.
29:23No, no, no.
29:24This is, this is our job.
29:25It's our job to enforce the law.
29:28Yeah.
29:29That's what we're here to do.
29:35Can you, um, you?
29:37Did you want to?
29:37No, no, you, you finish off here, Sophie.
29:43So we've identified the problem and now we work on the problem.
29:45Yeah.
29:46Which is reframing and owning the narrative.
29:48Yeah.
29:48We, we, we don't want this to get misconstrued as some sort of failure on our part because it just
29:52isn't.
29:52Thanks.
29:52That's really nice.
29:53Thanks so much.
29:54Thanks.
29:56Cool.
29:57Lovely.
29:58Thanks.
29:58Thanks so much.
29:59By the way, um, so, I've heard you're going to give evidence in Parliament.
30:05Yes.
30:06Yes.
30:06Amazing.
30:07Yeah, I think you're mad.
30:09What does that mean, thinking about it?
30:11He's, uh, he's nervous.
30:12No, I'm not nervous.
30:14He's nervous.
30:15No, it's not that I'm nervous.
30:16I want to do it.
30:17It's just, it's difficult.
30:19Don't, don't worry about it.
30:20I'll, yeah.
30:21We're counting on you.
30:22We are really counting on you.
30:23And you can explain it in a scientific way.
30:25You're going to come across brilliantly.
30:26They're going to believe you, mate.
30:28Well, it, uh, it's, it's not really as simple as that.
30:31I mean, no.
30:32The boys from Ogden called me earlier, right?
30:34Yeah.
30:34They told me that they dumped two billion liters of sewage in the Thames over two days.
30:40Environment Agency haven't got a Scooby.
30:42Did they send you the data?
30:43I've got the data, yeah.
30:44All right.
30:44Can you send that to us?
30:45I will send it to you.
30:46We're not going to let you down.
30:48Makes sense.
30:48Please.
30:49You can do this.
30:50Come on, Pete.
30:52You're a legend, mate.
30:52Come on.
31:03We now have the lowest number of serious pollution incidents from water companies that we have
31:09yet recorded.
31:15What we call four-star performance.
31:19We now have the lowest number of serious pollution incidents from water companies that we have
31:25yet recorded.
31:54I'm an environment officer.
31:55the agency.
31:56I investigate sewage pollution.
32:01When I first joined, it wasn't a job to get rich on.
32:07I could see I was making a difference.
32:12Corporations want to make money.
32:14We make sure that they don't poison the rivers doing it.
32:16We could investigate, prosecute, whatever it took.
32:22But then they told the companies that they could regulate themselves.
32:27Let's help raise a self-monitoring.
32:29Exactly.
32:31Then came the Cameron Cuts, then the Trust Cuts.
32:35They laid off investigators, slashed prosecutions.
32:39I mean, they even took our cars off of us so we couldn't visit pollution sites.
32:42So all these cuts meant you couldn't do your job properly?
32:46That's not it.
32:49In 2021, Sir James hiked the prices the water companies paid for their permits.
32:55It was called charge-funded regulation.
32:58We get 96 million from the government.
33:01We are now pulling in 411 million from charges.
33:07All these cuts, they're just a smokescreen.
33:10We're swimming in cash.
33:13I am doing this because I know that it is wrong.
33:16And it has ruined my whole working life.
33:23Good luck.
33:36Right.
33:40Fucking hell.
33:42What should we do?
33:43Well, first we read them.
33:46And then I think we should call some journalists.
33:50The Environment Agency has refused to comment on whether agency directors
33:55currently hold shares in UK water companies.
33:58The agency claimed it would break data protection laws
34:02if it disclosed the information.
34:04Environment Agency chiefs secretly held a series of private dinners
34:07with water company bosses at the Royal Automobile Club in central London.
34:11Documents released under the Freedom of Information Act showed the meetings were held
34:16to discuss how to quell public anger over sewage.
34:19As the sewage scandal deepens, Environment Agency CEO Sir James Bevan
34:24has been called to give evidence to a parliamentary committee.
34:27Well, we need to talk about what we say in public
34:29and the responsibilities we have.
34:33You have a duty not to openly criticise or discredit the organisation in the media or on social media.
34:43Or to disclose confidential information to anyone not authorised to receive it.
34:51If your comments, inside or outside work, impact on the agency's reputation
34:55by making derogatory comments about the organisation, or your managers,
35:00or you make comments that bring the organisation into disrepute,
35:04you may be subject to disciplinary action.
35:08And in more serious cases, dismissal.
35:24Work's one of those, the fire majors set over the last, over the last ten years.
35:29I don't think I want to do this.
35:30You'll be fine.
35:32Need the toilet?
35:34I'm alright.
35:35I need a bloody toilet.
35:36Do you want a pie?
35:38What does that mean?
35:42Well, my garden is an island which the Windrush wraps around.
35:52I've watched it closely for 18 years and I watched the water turn brown.
35:58I led a team of scientists using a machine learning analysis
36:03of two sewage treatment works run by Thames Water.
36:07One of those works, the Environment Agency said over 10 years
36:12that only two pollution incidents had been reported.
36:16Our machine learning analysis showed hundreds of illegal spills.
36:26More than 300 lasted 24 hours and some longer than 10 days.
36:35And some for a month.
36:37Have you shown this evidence to the Environment Agency?
36:40Well, we are. I've shown the evidence many times.
36:44What usually happens is that they say that they show a sign of interest,
36:50but then nothing happens.
36:54We work very closely with Professor Hammond of Windrush against sewage pollution.
37:01We have a regular and very fruitful dialogue with him.
37:06You've worked closely with Professor Hammond?
37:09He and Ashley Smith sent you at least 13 emails detailing evidence of illegal sewage dumping.
37:17He published five evidence reports documenting water company criminality,
37:23all of which were sent to you or your senior colleagues.
37:26They invited you to come and look at the river in 2019.
37:31And the following year sent you an email with the heading
37:35Environment Agency complicit in lawbreaking.
37:45They never heard back.
37:46You never once replied in five years.
37:51How did you manage to work so closely with Professor Hammond when you never once spoke to him?
37:55At the Thames Water Modern Treatment Works, there was a spill of 240 Olympic swimming pools of sewage in a
38:07single day.
38:08The existing monitoring failed to pick that up.
38:11Now, why was that?
38:13There will always be times when something happens, usually accidentally.
38:18But if we find that a water company has breached its permit, we will take appropriate action.
38:26Does appropriate action include prosecuting water company executives?
38:30Prosecution is a very high bar, but where we think that's appropriate, we wouldn't hesitate.
38:38Did you prosecute in this case?
38:40No.
38:42Have you ever prosecuted any water company executives?
38:45No, but if we thought the evidence warranted it, we wouldn't hesitate.
38:53Last year you told this committee that you became aware of sewage thumping in May 2021.
38:58Yes.
38:59But three weeks after that, you told the committee that the water companies were improving
39:03and that more of them were getting four out of four stars.
39:08Why were you telling the committee that the water companies were doing a four-star job?
39:15Well, you've quoted everything I said.
39:19I think I stand by everything I said.
39:23I think you'll find them mutually consistent.
39:28The agency's job is to make sure the water companies obey the criminal law, but it doesn't do it, and
39:35the water companies do whatever they want.
39:37The alleged crimes of their directors are never prosecuted.
39:43They've built criminality into their business models because pollution is highly profitable and repeat offending has no consequences.
39:53Therefore, in the light of the remarkable absence of any counter-corruption measures, we demand an investigation into the environment
40:01agency.
40:05The key test for me on regulation.
40:07Less regulation.
40:08Is it something that enables the builders, not the blockers?
40:11Cut guidance by 80%.
40:13We've also got to look at regulation. Regulations will go, and where it is needlessly holding back the investment, reduce
40:20the amount and the burden of regulation, rip out the bureaucracy that blocks investment.
40:24Northumbria and water recorded 30.1 spills per overflow over the course of 2023, 280,000 hours and change in
40:34total.
40:35The chief executive, Heidi Mottram, received a bonus of £234,000 that year.
40:43Why did you take football tickets from the parent company?
40:48Well, I didn't.
40:49Okay. CK Hutchins Holdings owns 75% of Chong Kong Infrastructure Holdings, the owner of Northumbria and Water.
40:56And you declared £2,000 in football tickets and hospitality.
40:59Well, on that occasion, there was nobody from a water company that was involved in offering those tickets.
41:06There was nobody from a water company at that event.
41:08I wouldn't have known that. They weren't present.
41:11Why didn't you know? You should have known that.
41:11You said that these sort of people should potentially be in the dock if they have been willing to break
41:16the rules.
41:17You took £2,000 in tickets and hospitality for a football match from bosses linked to that company that polluted
41:23that water.
41:25Why should people in Northumbria think that you're fit for your dock?
41:28Well, I certainly wouldn't have known that, and judge me by what I did.
41:29Why not?
41:30Judge me by what I did.
41:31That is what you did.
41:44Environment Minister Steve Reid is pursuing legal action against a group of anglers trying to restore the ecosystem of their
41:52local river on the grounds that cleaning up individual rivers is administratively unworkable.
41:59Concerns are being raised about the number of leading labour figures with links to lobbying firms working for water companies.
42:05Among the invited guests at the government's international investment summit was Macquarie Bank.
42:10Described as the vampire kangaroo by critics, Macquarie presided over the near collapse of Thames Water,
42:17leaving it £10 billion in debt after having illegally dumped billions of litres of raw sewage.
42:40Reuben?
42:48I know I can't be left alone with her.
43:07How did it come to this?
43:16How did it happen that England is the only place in the whole world whose water system is wholly privatised?
43:29That our seas and our rivers are full of shite?
43:35I just feel like we're trying to bring down England's biggest organised crime syndicate.
43:43I mean, they're not the mafia, these water companies, they're not a drugs cartel, but they do dump sewage a
43:51thousand times a day.
43:53And almost all of those are illegal.
43:56And the cash they've accumulated, £145 billion since privatisation, and they've got that because they seem to have built criminality
44:08into their business models.
44:11So they are like an organised crime syndicate.
44:16And the CEOs and the owners are like crime bosses.
44:21I mean, they don't murder people, obviously, they're not assassins.
44:28But me and Peter are sitting here waiting for these crime lords to put things right.
44:36And if we leave them to their own devices, they never will.
44:43They never will.
44:45Well, we've put the things that we own and care about together, we've put them into the hands of financial
44:53speculators, whose job it is, is just to make money.
44:58We need to put the people who care in charge.
45:02So much.
45:03Thank you very much.
Comments