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00:00Welcome to the first ever episode of Tech Support, a brand new interview series from TechRadar
00:05where we bring on an outside guest to help us answer the most important questions about the
00:09technology changing our lives. I'm your host, Hamish Hector, and today I'm joined by Key Pan,
00:14Snap's Director of Computer Vision Engineering, so we can discuss what looks set to be the next
00:19big thing in tech, smart glasses. Whether they boast artificial intelligence, augmented reality,
00:25or some mix of both, these wearables are quickly growing in popularity, with many predicting they
00:30might replace smartphones sooner than we'd think. We're recording this barely a week after Meta
00:36Connect, where we're introduced to three new pairs of smart specs, and ahead of Snap's major consumer
00:41glasses launch next year, which will put its awe-inspiring AR tech on the heads of the general
00:46public. So it feels there's no better time to talk about smart glasses. So, Key, I think the big
00:53question to start with, because the industry is a little bit messy, I feel like so many different
00:58kinds of smart glasses. Let's start with the beginning. To you, what are smart glasses?
01:04Yeah, so smart glasses really are our foray into, you know, wearing sort of computing or smart devices
01:10on our heads. And, you know, there's a long history of different types of devices. So even if you look
01:15sort of 10 years back, you know, Snap had capture-only smart glasses. These are sort of the first ones
01:21that
01:21just let you capture video and content in the moment. So you're with your kids or with your dog,
01:26you see something cool, you just snap it right there. You know, a few years later, the advent of AI
01:32actually makes these sort of capture glasses a little bit more interesting, because now you can
01:36put things like speakers there, and you can actually interact with AI with a pair of smart glasses on your
01:41head and capture some cool videos as well.
01:44And now we're going into displays and all of that to add sort of the augmented reality elements as well,
01:50right? Yes, exactly. So the sort of progression there is, yeah, into, you know, from these sort of
01:54capture-only devices now to devices which may have, for example, like a single display, where you can
02:00see a little bit of text, more like a heads-up display. So this is not sort of augmenting the
02:03world around you, but just giving you a little bit of text or some images in front of you. And
02:08then
02:08on the other end of the spectrum, you have full smart AR glasses. So these are the glasses here.
02:14Essentially, these glasses, you know, I feel this is a very different type of product, actually,
02:19to the capture-only smart glasses. So these glasses actually allow you to augment the world
02:23directly in front of you. So you can see virtual content literally where you need it in the world
02:28in front of you. So for example, you know, if you're walking around the streets of London,
02:32and you want to be directed somewhere, you don't really want to translate your 2D map either on your
02:36phone or even on a heads-up display to the 3D world. You actually just want to see exactly where
02:41you
02:41need to walk. Yeah, you want to just know, okay, I've got to go this way. You don't want the
02:45just audio text saying, turn left, turn right. Because sometimes I have that with my phone at
02:48the moment. And I sort of Google Maps will say, turn left here. And then I think, wait, is it
02:52that
02:52left? Is there just passed? Is it the one that's coming up? Well, obviously, if you've got a little
02:55display in front of you, you can know exactly, okay, it is the next one. Exactly. Yeah, I had exactly
03:00that problem in Paddington. Walking here, figuring out which... A question that people might be
03:06wondering, because I know most people will probably be aware of Snap's involvement with Snapchats.
03:10Obviously, the big sort of social media platform, whether they use it or they're just familiar
03:14with it. But I sort of imagine some people maybe aren't so aware of Snap's involvement in AR and
03:20Glasses on the hardware side. You've talked a little bit about it there already, but maybe just sort of
03:25a little brief overview of how Snap got started in the hardware side of tech, rather than just,
03:31you know, the software with Snapchat and other apps. Yeah, definitely. So AR has always been
03:36actually at the heart of Snapchat. So, you know, even in the first days before Snapchat had chat,
03:44actually, we already had AR lenses that you can use to, you know, put dog ears on yourself or
03:50fuking rainbow, for example. You know, these days, 300 million people every day are using AR effects on
03:56Snapchat. So because of this, you know, we've had a long history of augmenting the world, but people
04:01don't think of it as augmenting the world. They think of it as I'm going to, you know, send a
04:04funny
04:05Snap to a friend or communicate with a loved one there. And that's what we sort of love. We love
04:10the
04:10technology to blend into the background. And so that's sort of bringing some of those ideas from
04:15your phone onto Glasses, using some of those sort of AR techniques that you've developed, because
04:20obviously you've got to work with things like anchoring images to places. I guess that translates
04:25pretty well to using basically the same tech as a lot of people's phones into Glasses and just
04:31putting it in a different way, right? Yes, exactly. Yeah. So, yeah, actually, the team in London here,
04:36we built a lot of technologies for things like human understanding and tracking and also world
04:40understanding, augmenting, you know, Big Ben and places like that. And that technology transitions
04:45exactly to these hardware devices. And a lot of things that we were sort of doing on the phone,
04:51they were useful and interesting, but it really becomes far more useful
04:55if it's on a hands-free device and the information is right there and in front of you there. So
04:59this
04:59is what triggered us to really look at the hardware space. You know, we really believe the future is
05:05overlaying computing into the world. If you think about it, it's a little bit like making the
05:09technology disappear, right? If you just see the content in the world in front of you, you're not
05:12thinking about, oh, I had to hold a piece of technology to see it. It's just directly in the
05:16world in front of you. And this is a critical piece of see-through AR. So what optical see-through
05:22AR is,
05:23you know, we can see the real world directly, but we can also see the virtual content in the real
05:28world directly as well. And all of that is enabled by a projector, which is sort of projecting images
05:34in this direction, but then bounces along this piece of glass with quantum nanostructures on each
05:39side a certain number of times until it goes into your eye. And that's the magic of actually being
05:44able to put AR content in the world around you.
05:47And I've used this stuff and it's really impressive. I've had the chance to demo these
05:51glasses, I think twice now. And every time I go, I think, oh, it was pretty cool the last time.
05:55But
05:56sort of, obviously, as you do a few demos of the thing, I think it starts, some other tech can
06:01start
06:01to lose sort of the magic. I've tried this before now. The first time I used a VR headset was
06:05wow.
06:06And now it's sort of, you know, use one every day, every week. It's, you know, pretty sort of run
06:10of the male standard. When I last demoed them, I got to see sort of like, it's basically subtitles
06:13below people's heads. So you don't just know what's being said, you know, sort of who's saying
06:18it. And, you know, you can still sort of look at the person rather than with some translation,
06:22you know, it's sort of like off to the side a little bit on AR glasses or smart glasses.
06:26You sort of, you're sort of looking away at people. It can be a bit off-putting this, you know,
06:30I could look right at you as you were speaking Mandarin and I could see what was being said. And
06:34that was
06:35really handy. So I think we've sort of touched on several different ways
06:39that smart glasses are going to be useful to people once they get their hands in them, whether
06:44it is sort of more sort of becoming slowly old-fashioned, sort of even just with the audio
06:50side, because they can have the AI assistance, obviously with AR, they can have sort of on-screen
06:55help. Do you think smart glasses will replace smartphones as some people think? And do you think
07:03that'll happen quickly or quite slowly? Because I think there's a, some people are really, really,
07:07you know, gung-ho, it'll be in five, ten years. Some people say it'll take a bit longer. Where do
07:11you sit on the sort of smart glasses versus smartphones?
07:14Yes, I definitely think there is a shift in hardware. You know, we're going to move from
07:19our phones, which, you know, they're very capable devices in and of themselves, but they don't
07:24really understand what you're trying to achieve. So, you know, when you use your phone, you have
07:29to basically go to your home screen, select an app, because it has no idea sort of what is going
07:32on, because it's sort of off most of the time in your, in your pocket, or the sensors are off
07:36in
07:36your pocket. The reason I think that smart glasses are so compelling is that, you know,
07:41smart glasses can essentially sense the world around you as you're going around your everyday
07:44life. We're going to ask you to put an additional piece of hardware in your face. I kind of feel
07:48like
07:48it has to benefit you almost every minute that you're wearing it. And so, for me, part of it is
07:54the contextual and AI side. You know, if the glasses can sort of understand what you're trying to do and
07:59essentially make that a little bit more efficient or a little bit better, that is why I would choose
08:03to use a pair of glasses over a phone. Yeah. And, you know, there are many examples where, you know,
08:08if I go to work, you know, I walk out of the door, I want my smart glass to go,
08:12oh, it looks like you're
08:13going to work. Today, the underground is not working, take the bus or this route. Whereas, you know,
08:19at the moment, I would have to pull my phone out, go to the right app, tell it I'm going
08:23to work.
08:24But I guess the other one, I've sort of mentioned it already, is VR headsets. And
08:29it feels like sort of AR and VR are quite similar, I guess, to a lot of people that
08:32don't experience these techs every day. Do you think we're going to see VR headsets sticking
08:39around, you know, kind of like sort of the laptop to the phone or tablet of AR glasses? Or do
08:44you
08:45think that VR headsets probably will also go away? Because AR does offer so many more benefits in
08:51terms of, you know, it's, you're still sort of present in the world with the overlays, you can
08:55obviously wear them around and about, people can try and wear their VR headset around. We've all seen
09:00the videos, people walking around with an Apple Vision Pro. From my experience, I don't think it's
09:04super easy walking around with a headset on. But people try it. So what do you think? Do you think
09:09VR is going to stick around still? Or is it going to sort of be replaced by AR?
09:14So I think, yeah, there are sort of very different reasons for using AR to VR. If you look at
09:18VR,
09:19you know, the idea really is to sort of take you out of the current reality, transport you somewhere
09:23else. And there will always be, you know, compelling use cases for that. You know, if you're watching
09:28like a special video or something where you just want to be teleported away from where you are,
09:31or playing some of the games which are super immersive and not related to the world around you.
09:36But I think the magic of AR and why we're so interested in it, because we don't want to take
09:40you away
09:40from the real world. We're big fans of the real world. We just want to make the real world slightly
09:44more convenient or slightly better. But I think there will always be a niche for VR, for those
09:48sort of extremely immersive experiences that take you out of the real world.
09:52So whenever I'm sort of trying new tech and writing about new tech, the people I think about
09:56a lot of the time are my grandparents, who are like pretty massive technophobes.
10:00You know, I think about my granddad, he's, you know, not even moved on to a smartphone,
10:03he's still got his brick phone that he loves. And he keeps on, if he tries and buys a new
10:07phone,
10:07it's still got to be a brick phone with physical buttons.
10:10And so obviously, I feel like, you know, AR glasses are probably well beyond them. But I even
10:15think, you know, you know, a generation or two down, who might be, you know, getting something
10:20out of their smartphone, but already feeling like it's a little bit more complicated. Do you feel
10:25like smart glasses might add a layer of complication again? Or do you think AR glasses and smart glasses
10:31in general might be that little bit more convenient and easy to use? Because they're sort of on your
10:35face, you can talk to them. I don't know, what's your sort of stance on that idea of is tech
10:39getting
10:40too complicated? Or is this taking things the other way for the first time in a while, I guess?
10:44So yeah, my hope for AR glasses, actually, they make it much easier to interact with technology.
10:51So, you know, if you look at sort of modern devices, you know, you need to go there, you
10:55need to launch the right app at the right time. I think with smart glasses, the hope is that a
10:59lot
10:59of that interface just disappears. So whatever you're trying to do, the right content will sort
11:03of show up at the right time, which is much easier for people to use there. And I think the
11:08other
11:08thing about smart glasses, especially the AR smart glasses, is the interactions are all the ways we
11:13interact with people as well. So you interact with, you know, speaking to the device, you interact by
11:19touching the world in front of you with your hands. These are all sort of very natural things that you
11:24do day in, day out anyway. So I think, you know, if we design the interfaces in the right way,
11:30ideally, you know, I would want anyone to put these glasses on, no matter the age or technical
11:34experience and just be able to use the device, because it'll look like, oh, it's a virtual
11:38button, I need to push that just like a real button.
11:40That's definitely how I felt it. Because I think, because that's one of the things I quite
11:44liked about VR. And I think to some people, it does feel a bit much to be fully immersed in
11:48something. But it's so, you know, if you're in a VR game, and you see a lever in front of
11:53you,
11:53just pull it or you push a button. And it's so more intuitive than, you know, walking up and
11:58pressing square on a controller on a in a regular video game. And yeah, that's sort of what I hope
12:04from
12:04AR is actually sort of make tech a little bit more accessible against people, because it is
12:09quite intuitive, you know, is reaching out, it's writing things with your hand, there's
12:13so many different options with, you know, whether it's pure hand controls, or we're seeing people
12:17do like wristbands that can monitor your movements, some sort of fingers crossed that perhaps, you
12:22know, grandparents of the future will be able to take on AR glasses and not be so worried, it will
12:29be too confusing for them. And now moving away from sort of this more software focus to the hardware,
12:34I think what some people will see from these glasses is that they're, you know, a little bit
12:39chunky. And I sort of want to start talking about, you know, how do you feel that sort of design
12:45element is evolving with smart glasses, because looking at sort of glasses that don't have a
12:50display in, you know, a few iterations where it's just, you know, speakers, a camera, an AI assistant,
12:56we're actually getting to the point that they look pretty much the same as normal, normal run
13:00of the mill glasses, obviously, you can see a camera, but they're not that bulky. Do you think
13:04that these are, you know, going to go the same way eventually, where they'll sort of slim down?
13:09Is there sort of that fortunate disadvantage, because you've got to cram so much more into
13:12these, it's going to take a little bit longer, they're going to have to be stay that amount
13:16bulkier. And, you know, also, I guess, sort of perhaps separately, following on from the initial
13:21question, what's your feeling on moving things from the glasses proper to something like a puck,
13:28which, you know, have been rumored for some devices, and we've seen from some devices as
13:33well. So you take out the battery, you might even take out the processing unit, and it'd be
13:36something in your pocket, but obviously, then you have a cable running from your glasses to
13:39the puck. So let's start with the big question. Yeah, let's go into it all. Yeah, definitely. So
13:44yeah, there's definitely a lot of challenge in miniaturizing the technology, so it fits comfortably
13:49on your face, you know, regular eyeglasses are extremely thin and light, because you need to wear
13:53them all the time. These glasses, you know, being developer devices, yeah, these are sort
13:58of bigger and chunkier than you would want for a consumer device. But our product next
14:02year will be much thinner and lighter. And, you know, if you think about the amount of technology
14:07we're sort of cramming in there, you know, we've got multiple cameras to understand the
14:11world, to understand your hands. We've got a projector and a display, it's equivalent of 100
14:16inch display, you know, three meters away from me, you've got one on each side as well. Yeah,
14:21one on one on each side, exactly, stereo displays, we've got multiple processors, you know, one
14:26on each side to process the world around you, and to do all the graphics as well. Plus, we've
14:32got to put in the batteries in there. So this is a lot of technology cramming into a very
14:36small space. There's definitely a lot of a lot of trade offs. But I firmly believe, you
14:39know, if you look at the progress of smartphones, you know, they started off being a brick, then
14:43they become much, much thinner and lighter. We're, you know, at the start of that journey
14:48on the airglasses side, and they will sort of shrink down and down as well. And then,
14:55yes, to answer the other part of the question, you know, we've gone for a fully standalone
14:59approach, right? So the idea is just, just as with your phone, you can just pick it up
15:03and you can use it. You don't need to charge another accessory there at all. And the reason
15:10we've gone for that approach is, you know, one is just convenience, right? It's just,
15:14you know, one less device to charge up, you know, you can just use your device. The other
15:20one is that, you know, you do need to offload compute from these devices at some point, right?
15:26You know, to access the largest language models and things like this, you're going to have
15:30to offload to the cloud or to a puck. But with a puck, you just get a little bit more
15:35performance
15:36compared to your glasses. If you offload to the cloud, for example, you get all of that
15:41GPU power there to run the largest and most capable models. And I think we're still at the
15:46phase where AI is still, you know, exponentially increasing its capability to be able to access
15:51those largest, most capable models. There's a huge advantage on...
15:55You've got to go off device anyway. So yeah, start, just incorporate that into the glasses
15:59and then, yeah, it cuts out the annoyance of a cable. Because yeah, I've used some smart
16:03glasses where obviously you sort of plug them into your phone and you can watch your
16:06TV. And I love using those when I'm traveling, I'm sat down on a flight or a train, I can
16:11sort
16:11of watch a movie. It's particularly great when I'm sort of just traveling to Europe where the
16:14flight's only a couple of hours anyway, but there's no, you know, in-flight entertainment
16:18screen built into the seat in front of me. But yeah, it sort of can be a little bit awkward
16:22walking around with those because it's just, even though the tether's normally quite long,
16:26it just, you know, it feels a bit weird feeling like that you're attached to something in your
16:29pocket from your head. And, you know, you can turn your head and suddenly, you know,
16:32the cables got all tangled and there's a problem. So yeah, I think from my experience, you know,
16:36fully standalone devices, whether it's in VR or AR, it definitely seemed to be the right
16:41way to go. And then also, I guess, another point of potential awkwardness is for people
16:47who have sort of the need for corrective lenses. What do you think will sort of be the long-term
16:52solution with helping with people that, you know, need to use glasses, not just for the
16:55advantages of them being smart, but the advantages of, you know, them being able to see?
17:00Yes, definitely. I think actually those folks are probably the ones who are easiest to convince
17:04to adopt smart glasses because they're already wearing a pair of glasses on their face. And
17:11now we basically add much more capability there. And, you know, the glasses we design,
17:16they definitely support people who need prescription inserts. And you can actually, you know, for
17:20this pair and for consumer pairs, you'll be able to add prescription lenses there to correct
17:25your vision as well. And then moving into sort of snaps decisions versus perhaps what we see from
17:32other kinds of glass, smart glasses out there. I think obviously thinking about some of the tech
17:38we've seen recently, a lot of stuff at the moment that's coming up is sort of a single display. You
17:43know, I've tried, obviously, we've just seen the new Meta Ray-Ban display glasses that just got the
17:48single screen. We've even seen some from Halliday that are coming up that again, just a single
17:54little screen. But then also we've got sort of, if they do go for two screens, sometimes it's sort
17:59of a monochromatic thing. I'm thinking of something like the Rokid glasses, which have sort of a similar
18:04sort of waveguide display, but it's just green text. And obviously those systems have some uses and
18:09perhaps they're a little bit smaller, but sort of what is the advantages and the reasons for snaps
18:14of going all in on this sort of dual display, full color, straight from the get go with these, well,
18:21not straight from the get go, but you know, with these sort of latest generation from you guys?
18:24Yeah. So with a single display or a monochrome display, you're sort of looking at, yeah, more sort
18:29of heads up display use cases, which, you know, there are some interesting use cases in their own
18:34right there for sure. But that's not really sort of snaps vision of AR smart glasses. You know,
18:41you know, you've got to be able to overlay computing directly in the world in front of you. Like there
18:45are some difficulties with things like single displays as well. Your eyes essentially and brain
18:51basically configured to take two images, which are roughly the same and fuse them into one and
18:56understand the 3D structure of the world with a single display, a little bit of an unnatural way
19:00for the brain to sort of work there. And we've gone for that approach because we think that's the fastest
19:05way to the end goal there rather than taking a detour around a few other different form factors.
19:11So I guess you sort of answered my next question a little bit in sort of saying you want the
19:14end
19:15goal to be, you know, full on AR glasses, which is sort of what we're getting from you guys.
19:20But as you sort of touched on already, Snap has made sort of non-display equipped glasses in the past,
19:25and we're still seeing quite a lot of those, even still some new ones coming out. Is that something
19:30that you might ever come back to, do you think? Or do you sort of feel like actually, no, AR
19:36is so
19:36useful for what it can do and what it can offer that actually it sort of feels a bit counterintuitive
19:42to maybe step back and take out the display side of things again? Or are there advantages to not
19:48having a display at all and just having the AI in the audio, I guess, slightly less chunky for now,
19:53that sort of thing. So what's your feeling on that?
19:55Yeah. So if you look at when we sort of started off on the journey with Capture Only Glass about
19:5810 years
19:59ago, the technology was just not ready then to have a full pair of AR smart glasses. And that's
20:04why we went down the capture route. And there were lots of interesting things, lots of amazing
20:08memories that I've captured using the Snap Capture Only glasses. But the way I look at this is it's a
20:15little bit like, you know, a phone and the, you know, and what it's done to sort of cameras, right?
20:20You know, yes, in theory, a full camera takes a better picture than your phone. But essentially,
20:25the phone is the thing that you always have with you. And, you know, everything sort of converges
20:28into that one device. And I feel it's the same here. You know, right now, there is a place for
20:33those camera glasses. But eventually, when full AR glasses are sort of shrinking down, you probably
20:39don't want a separate device, which only does Capture. You would probably want that integrated
20:43with the whole thing. Exactly. So I feel like that's, you know, why we've gone for sort of that direct
20:48trajectory to AR glasses, because we feel like, you know, once that is small enough, you probably
20:53will just want your one pair with Capture capabilities on that pair of AR smart glasses.
20:57And so then finally, I guess I've got two questions that I want to ask sort of looking at
21:01the future of smart glasses, both on an individual level, and then sort of more broadly for the whole
21:07sector. So the first one is someone's maybe watched this interview thought, you know what,
21:11I really like the idea of smart glasses. Now, I want to go out and try something. What would be
21:16sort of your advice for someone that's wanting to try out AR, try out smart glasses? What's the
21:21what should they maybe go away and do today? Yeah, definitely. So, you know,
21:25one of the things you can do is you can apply to actually get a pair of these glasses, developer
21:29glasses, if you want to go and build the latest, most amazing AR glasses, you can go to spectacles.com
21:35and sign up essentially to become a developer and see the latest and greatest there. Also,
21:40you can check out the Spectacles Reddit page, we have a really thriving ecosystem of developers,
21:46and they're building some really amazing things. You know, we're building the tools in the third party
21:51platform for AR. And it really just astonishes me, some of the things that people come up with,
21:55I'm like, wow, we did not think of that when we were building the platform. But this is an amazing
21:59use case for AR. So, you know, Andrew Douglas is a certified developer from London, he built these
22:06amazing lenses to actually allow you to just look at a set of ingredients, and then synthesize a recipe,
22:12turn that into multiple stages. And on a hands free device, it's, you know, a great experience to then
22:16be able to cook there. We've got people being able to control their IoT devices, turn the lights off
22:23with a hand gesture, all sorts of amazing things there that are just popping up. So if you want
22:27to see what's sort of possible on these platforms, yeah, the Reddit page is a great place to go to.
22:32Okay, and then they've sort of got to wait for next year if they want to try these glasses,
22:36so they might want to hold on a little bit longer. They can sort of, yeah, check out Reddits and
22:41check out videos for, I guess, all these different things that are out there at the moment and see what
22:44takes their fancy. And then I think the, I guess the final question then is, I think in tech, the
22:50big
22:50question that everyone is always thinking is not being content with what we have right now, it's, you
22:55know, what's next? And I think we've sort of touched a little bit on, obviously, smart glasses being
23:00trimmed down, retain, you know, becoming more functional, but also slimmer and comfier at the same
23:06time. But what do you think is sort of next after that? If you could sort of, you know, what's
23:11something that you think is going to really revolutionise sort of these wearables, you know,
23:16in a decade's time when, you know, they are sort of reaching the point where they are a bit more
23:20ubiquitous with people and they're excited to see, you know, what's the next big thing?
23:24Yeah, to me, you know, yeah, these devices, you know, they'll shrink down and down. At some point,
23:29you'll get to sort of a tipping point where it's sort of, you know, the weight and the battery life
23:33and display is sort of compelling to a large proportion of the population. And that'll be
23:39a gradual journey over the years to get to the point where they're sort of really miniaturised.
23:43But I think the real revolution will come in the sort of sensing and intelligence capabilities of
23:49the devices there. So, you know, really, a lot of the things that you do today, which involve your sort
23:55of manual input and things like that, I think the revolution will come when the glasses are able to
24:00have things like always on sensing and really understand what you're trying to do and just
24:04give you the right content at the right time. And, you know, my hope there is that there are so
24:09many
24:09things that you do today that you have to think about and take your mental load. You know, eventually
24:13half of those things will just sort of happen by magic there. And I think that's the breakthrough
24:19there will be really when the technology appears to disappear. Yeah. Because, you know, you're no longer
24:24thinking about, oh, I'm going to use this device for this. You're just seeing things in the world
24:29which sort of solve your problems through the magic of AR. And I think that will come when the
24:35hardware is sort of capable enough. And when we have also the sort of AI and intelligence algorithms,
24:39which can run sort of all the time and really understand what you're doing to really help you
24:43in your life. Well, I think that'd be pretty handy having a little assistant running around after
24:47me. That sounds very sort of like Tony Stark with Jarvis, which is, I guess, what everyone that's
24:52ever watched an MCU movie kind of wishes they could have. Thank you very much for sitting down with me
24:55today,
24:55Mickey. It's been really interesting, obviously, to talk about smart glasses and to get excited about
25:00what we might see from Snap and everyone else coming down the line. If you've enjoyed this episode,
25:05make sure to give us a like and to subscribe because we'll be back next month with another
25:09episode of Tech Support. See you then.
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