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00:09minutos com o António Campinos, o presidente do Oficio Europeu, uma organização internacional
00:16com sua headquarters em Munique, que examina as muitas as 200,000 aplicações europeus
00:23cada ano. Presidente, bem-vindo ao programa.
00:25Obrigado por ter me.
00:27Então, vamos começar com essa pergunta perenal sobre o problema da competitividade da Europa.
00:32Nós temos uma grande pressão política aqui na Europa para resolver isso.
00:35Nós ouvimos que a economia está lagando com os competidores, que realmente precisamos fazer algo sobre isso, urgente.
00:42Quando está a sua instituição, a Europa Patent Office, entrou em tudo isso?
00:46Bom, antes de explicar para você, deixe-me dizer que a diagnóstico é conhecido, é publicamente conhecido.
00:54Eu quero que tenha que completar o mercado interno.
00:56Isso corresponde a uma barriga de 40% ou 60% para nossos recursos,
01:02100% ou 110% para nossos serviços.
01:05Isso foi estimado por uma geração de GDP de aproximadamente 600 ou 700 bilhões de euros,
01:12que é basicamente o que precisamos completar para o mercado interno.
01:17E é claro que precisamos de remover as muitas barreiras,
01:22as muitas barreiras que possamos.
01:24para que possamos um espaço para os recursos de macroentitários, para as universidades,
01:29para trazer muitas ideias do trabalho para o mercado.
01:34Então, é praticamente o que precisamos fazer.
01:37Especialmente quando você pensa sobre os volumes de mercado em Europa,
01:42e entre Europa e o resto do mundo,
01:44vemos que 60% do volume de mercado em nossos estados,
01:49e 40% do mundo em nossos estados e o resto do mundo.
01:51Então, de certa forma, precisamos olhar para as regras de competição,
01:56e não dizer que precisamos desregulá-las,
01:58mas é claro que essas regras foram decididas para o mercado interno
02:01e não para a Europa competindo no mercado global.
02:04Então, precisamos olhar para as regras.
02:07Porque nos últimos 50 anos,
02:08não geramos uma empresa de 100 bilhões de empresas
02:12ou uma empresa de 1 milhão de empresas
02:13ou uma empresa de 1 milhão de empresas
02:14que é basicamente o valor de muitas empresas
02:19ou empresas chinesas.
02:22Mas, Europa é conhecida como um poder de pesquisa para pesquisa,
02:25para inovação,
02:26mas você já descreve o maior custo econômico
02:29de não completar o mercado interno
02:30e o fato de que não temos uma Europa GAFAM,
02:33por exemplo.
02:34Por que isso?
02:35O que são os barrios?
02:36É tudo sobre a escala.
02:38Então, começamos a simplificar as regras,
02:41reforcer as regras,
02:43a regras entre as regras
02:43entre o mercado interno e o mercado interno dentro da Europa.
02:47Nós não temos suficiente escala.
02:48Porque nós somos fragmentados,
02:50nós estamos em algumas áreas.
02:52Nós realmente agimos como um mercado interno,
02:55mas em outras áreas,
02:56nós ainda estamos operando como 27 mercados nacionales.
03:00Nós temos mais de 30 internações da Europa.
03:04O valor de todas as regras entre os Estados Unidos
03:07é 45% do nosso GDP.
03:10O valor do Nasdaq, dojon, do S&P 500
03:14é 150% do nosso GDP.
03:19Então, isso explica por que
03:21dois-thirds do nosso investimento em ARD,
03:23que são cerca de 2.2% do nosso GDP,
03:26vem do nosso sector público.
03:28E, quando você olha os Estados Unidos,
03:29a maioria dos investimentos,
03:32vem do nosso sector privado.
03:34Então, nós temos um problema de escala
03:36e de atrair um suficiente financiamento
03:38para trazer essa ideia do trabalho
03:41para o mercado.
03:42E esse é o trabalho que a Comissão está fazendo,
03:44em relação ao período de tempo de 2028, 2036,
03:47que é 3 trilhões de investimentos
03:51em torno de financiamento,
03:52para permitir que os startups
03:53possam o financiamento que precisam
03:55e possam operar em uma maneira mais
04:00semelhante no mercado interno.
04:01Do you think that the EU institutions,
04:04including the Commission here in Brussels,
04:05understands the enormity of the challenge?
04:08Are they focused on the right priorities?
04:09No, they are.
04:10I think that it's fair to say
04:13that in the past few months,
04:15I mean, both the European Council,
04:17the Council of Ministers,
04:18the European Parliament
04:18and the European Commission
04:19are on the right track.
04:22And the free trade agreements
04:24are good agreements for us.
04:26They might be a little bit painful
04:28in certain areas.
04:29We saw the demonstrations,
04:32the strikes of agricultural agricultors
04:34in France.
04:35But the free trade agreements,
04:36what they do is they expand
04:37our internal markets.
04:39And as we have to compete with China
04:42and with the US,
04:43having access to the Canadian market,
04:46having access to the Mercosur market,
04:48having access to the Indian market
04:50and more recently to the Australian market
04:51is a good thing for us overall.
04:53We are hearing as well
04:54that when it comes to the big sectors
04:57of the future, clean tech, AI, quantum,
05:01that Europe is lagging behind,
05:03that China and the US are really accelerating.
05:05You obviously have access
05:07to a wealth of data
05:08as the European Patent Office
05:09into where innovation
05:10is actually happening right now.
05:12Is the outlook as gloomy
05:13as we're being told it is?
05:15I don't think so.
05:16But I think that we really need
05:18to learn the lessons from the past.
05:20And it's clear that when you look
05:21at the research centre,
05:22the major research centre in the world,
05:24many are situated in Europe.
05:25Oxford, Cambridge and Seiki,
05:27just to name the two first
05:28that come to my mind.
05:29In terms of fundamental research,
05:32if we are not the best,
05:33we are among the best.
05:35And when you look at the patent data,
05:37you will see that when we are developing
05:39a technology at the fundamental research level,
05:43we have 50% of overall European patents.
05:47of the US.
05:48But when we come close to the market,
05:50which means when you have to embody
05:51this technology in products or in services,
05:55that's where you see that the Chinese
05:56or the Asian companies
05:57and the US companies,
05:59they come very strong at us.
06:00So we need to improve that.
06:02And that's exactly when you move this idea
06:05from the lab to the market.
06:06What are the consequences
06:07for the European economy
06:08of not doing that,
06:10not achieving that?
06:11We lose a race which is called the standards,
06:14which is these patents
06:16who are very close to the market,
06:19they will be those who will set the standards
06:22and they will be called the essential patents.
06:25So the most valuable patents.
06:27So we will lose that race.
06:29We will not be setting the standard
06:31as we've been setting standards in the past.
06:33We're also hearing a lot of concern
06:35about this kind of flight of manufacturing power
06:38to other parts of the world.
06:40I'm thinking especially of China,
06:41especially when it comes to those key sectors
06:43of the future.
06:44Yeah.
06:45How much of a concern is that?
06:46Well, it's kind of a concern, you know,
06:49because, I mean, when you look,
06:51for instance,
06:52when you look at what powers all this technology,
06:56it immediately comes to your mind
06:58these rare materials
07:00or this rare earth.
07:03because all the, basically,
07:05all those who finish inium,
07:07gallium, germanium, lithium,
07:09you name them.
07:10And they are absolutely fundamental
07:11to produce what is called a permanent magnet.
07:14The permanent magnet functions
07:16without electricity, basically.
07:18And these permanent magnets,
07:20they use all kinds of high tech technologies.
07:23So, if we were to create a supply chain
07:26from zero to the level the Chinese are,
07:30where they produce, they manufacture 90%
07:33of the rare minerals.
07:36And they have, their mines represent 60%
07:41of the overall volumes.
07:42It will take us easily 10, 15 years.
07:45And that's why I think, for instance,
07:48that another technology, which we have been talking in Europe,
07:52but not as much as we've been talking about AI
07:54or the quantum technologies,
07:56but it's the recycling, the materials recycling technologies,
08:00so that we build circular economies
08:03around specific technical fields.
08:05it's fundamental for our autonomy, for our sovereignty.
08:08Yes.
08:09We are seeing, though, a push to deregulate,
08:13kind of a stripping back on some of the,
08:15maybe the ambitions here in the European Union.
08:18Do you think that it's creating uncertainty,
08:21this kind of push to deregulate and pull back on regulation?
08:24No, I don't think so.
08:25Because, you know, the AI act, the quantum act,
08:29I mean, the act that relates to a technology
08:31that you can define vertically,
08:35there are good regulations.
08:38And we need to keep them.
08:39And we need to develop them.
08:40What I'm talking is about, you know,
08:42whatever implies a taxable fee,
08:45whatever implies bureaucracy,
08:47whatever implies registration,
08:48whatever implies licenses,
08:49whatever implies intermediaries
08:51that take a part of your time,
08:54that take a part of your money.
08:56And today in the digital world,
08:58where we are, powered by AI
09:00and tomorrow by quantum,
09:01all these intermediaries, they're not needed.
09:04All these filling taxes and registries,
09:07they're not needed anymore.
09:08To close, I want to maybe take a step back
09:11and look globally,
09:12because there is a sense that we're seeing
09:15a big shift in power, maybe,
09:18where who's driving the global economy,
09:20we're seeing a lot of instability as well,
09:24a lot of volatility,
09:25particularly due to geopolitical context.
09:28Where does this leave Europe, do you think?
09:30I mean, when you look at the ten big sector,
09:34technological sectors,
09:35or you look at the ten first big companies
09:39that filed more patents in these different areas,
09:42you will find four Europeans amongst the ten.
09:44We're not bad.
09:45But we need to grow more of these companies.
09:48We need to grow more start-ups companies
09:51and become these first billion market value,
09:54the ten billion market value,
09:56a hundred billion, the ectocorn,
09:57and then the one trillion.
09:58That's where we need to focus.
09:59Because there are major US companies
10:02that seem to be accelerating, accelerating,
10:04and making it very difficult to catch up as well.
10:07Some US multinationals that are investing more
10:10in innovations than in certain new economies.
10:14Yeah, I think that there's technological battles
10:16where we can bring some more incremental improvements
10:20because we lost more or less the race,
10:22the race to the cloud, the race to AI.
10:26But we can still,
10:27we still have very excellent start-ups operating in these fields.
10:31But the next big revolution I see is the quantum technology.
10:35And we're still in the phase between fundamental research
10:39and development research.
10:41But we're coming very close to the market.
10:43And typically that's where Europe loses the battle
10:47of competitiveness, of innovation.
10:49So that's where we need to focus.
10:51And to focus there,
10:52we really need to defragment the internal market.
10:55We might need to discuss, I mean,
10:57the creation of the stock market for the EU
11:00and not these more than 30 international stock markets.
11:04and to scale up these start-ups to become global players.
11:09Okay, finally, just to close,
11:10we've had two major reports about two years ago
11:14from Letta and Draghi,
11:15both previously Italian prime ministers.
11:18Yes.
11:19Mario Draghi didn't warn that if Europe doesn't do anything urgently
11:22he could face a slow agony.
11:25Is that still a fear, a possibility?
11:27I mean, at the macro-level, macro-economic level,
11:30we are among the most costly social models
11:34and the most beautiful ones.
11:36I see myself in the European social model.
11:38But this social model, this pension system that we have,
11:42social security systems that we have,
11:44unemployment that needs to be financed.
11:46And in order to be financed,
11:48we have no other alternative to increase our productivity
11:50and to be more competitive.
11:52Great. Antonio Campinas, thank you so much for joining us.
11:54Thank you so much for having invited me.
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