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00:00High noon, Jones and Keefe here on WEEI.
00:03We'll get to pure hoops with Terp coming up in just a moment.
00:07We do have a couple of matchups for you to go vote.
00:10In the Jones and Keefe 1990s slash early 2000s,
00:14heavy metal, new metal, grunge, alternative, pop punk, butt rock,
00:17and rock bands bracket,
00:19number one Nirvana versus number three Pearl Jam in the Grab Bag region.
00:23And about 15 minutes ago,
00:25number one Green Day versus number three Blink-182 went live.
00:30In the Grab Bag region,
00:31we also have another announcement for the Final Four.
00:34It got tight, but Linkin Park will join Metallica in the Final Four.
00:40They held off Tool right up until the final seconds there, Keefe, 53-47.
00:46Wow.
00:46So Linkin Park and Metallica are first through to the Final Four.
00:51Congrats.
00:51Final Four matchups begin tomorrow.
00:53We'll have another matchup Friday.
00:55Championship matchup on Monday.
00:56We announce the winner on Tuesday.
00:58Wednesday here on Jones and Keefe.
00:59It's a big baseball show.
01:00We already did our MLB season preview.
01:03Our predictions are going to be up at Jones and Keefe on Twitter and Instagram.
01:06We'll also do the Dong Draft coming up.
01:09About 25 minutes from now.
01:11Terp is going to stick around for that.
01:12He's here now for Pure Hoops.
01:13What's going on, Terp?
01:14Not to sway the votes, but I went with Pearl Jam and Green Day.
01:18Did you really?
01:19Not to sway the votes.
01:20Pearl Jam, Green Day.
01:21I went Nirvana, Blink-182.
01:23So did I.
01:24Something's going to give.
01:25I think Terp's going to be right, though.
01:27Oh, you do?
01:27I think Terp's picks are going to be what wins.
01:29How many times did you vote for Creed earlier in the tournament?
01:32I used the show account, the station account, my account, my burner account.
01:35I used them all.
01:36Still.
01:37Apparently not enough.
01:38That is true.
01:38It wasn't enough.
01:38I did everything.
01:39I emptied the clip.
01:40Couldn't do it.
01:41Not enough from the Celtics over the weekend, either Terp.
01:44They lose to the Timberwolves.
01:47They maybe should have lost to an undermanned Grizzlies squad.
01:51What went wrong for them in those two games?
01:53Yeah, the Memphis one I thought was worse than the Minnesota game.
01:56At least in the Minnesota game, they had a big lead.
01:58They led by almost, I think it was seven points in the fourth quarter as well, whereas
02:01the Memphis one, had they not been playing a team that ruled out 11 players, they probably
02:05should have lost that game.
02:06And I think this is what we kind of expected, right?
02:09Like with Jason Tatum coming back, a lot of it's been good.
02:12Like if you look at the eight games that he's played, six of the eight have been very good.
02:17And, you know, he's flirting with triple doubles.
02:18He's obviously scoring 20 plus points, but it's not linear.
02:22The process isn't linear.
02:23And that goes for the whole team, reintegrating a player of his caliber in at this part of
02:28the season.
02:28And for him personally, it's not a linear progression.
02:31So I think we are kind of seeing that right now where we expected a little bit of this.
02:36It wasn't going to go as smoothly as it did, because think back to last week when we
02:39were talking about this.
02:40Like we had national pundits saying they're booking hotel rooms in Boston because of how
02:44great Jason Tatum looked like there was going to be some of this.
02:48There was going to be some kind of growing pains as he returns from an Achilles injury.
02:52Like that's just a natural progression that we're starting to see.
02:55I feel like he's way ahead of schedule.
02:57I feel like he's exceeded expectations.
02:59And then now maybe Amon Shumpert is on an island here, but we were playing some of the audio
03:04the other day after the Timberwolves game where he's just like, Hey, keep your head up.
03:07Like you're going to have some tough times.
03:09Like, I don't know.
03:10Like, I think he's playing really well and there's still a bunch of games to go.
03:14So obviously I'd like to see him improve his shooting.
03:16But I think through eight games, everybody, if you told me this is what it was going to
03:21look like, sort of the numbers, how he feels, the minutes he's playing.
03:25I think everybody would have signed up for this.
03:26He has four double doubles in the eight games.
03:28He's averaging 19, what?
03:3019, eight and three.
03:32Well, he's immediately their second best scorer.
03:34I was wondering if that was...
03:35Second best rebounder too behind Kato.
03:36Yeah, right.
03:36So I was waiting for that to maybe sort of like ease into that.
03:39But because you're like, yeah, you know, Jalen Brown should be the team's leading scorer
03:42and like the go-to guy the rest of the way, you know, but how long will it take Tatum
03:46to surpass White and Pritchard as like the go-to second scorer?
03:51That happened immediately.
03:52Yeah.
03:52And I think a lot of people are getting caught up in the shooting percentages and we should
03:56learn from past playoff experiences with him.
03:58That doesn't necessarily mean you're not playing well, especially with him and his ability
04:02to rebound.
04:02Defensively, he's been great.
04:03I think people are just looking at the shooting numbers and they are very inefficient.
04:07Like everyone looks at that and Jason Tatum would be the first to admit it, but that doesn't
04:11mean he's not playing well.
04:12And I think the kind of narrative has flipped after these last two games in such a different
04:17direction where last week everyone was like, oh, he looks great.
04:20Like he looks fantastic.
04:21He looks way above what we expected.
04:22And now it's like two bad games.
04:24It's like, oh, well, hold on.
04:25Is he holding them back?
04:26Okay.
04:26Well, I don't disagree just because you're not shooting well doesn't mean you're playing
04:30poorly, but a big part of his game is shooting and he's not shooting well.
04:35So Tim Bontemps today had two interesting stats.
04:38He talked to a lot of scouts throughout the league, Western Conference scouts, Eastern Conference
04:42assistants, Western scouts, assisting coaches.
04:45I'm just trying to look at some of the sourcing in the story, but like people throughout the
04:49league and he boiled it down to two numbers for Tatum.
04:53And you tell me what you think of these numbers, if they're good or bad, his usage rate is 31%.
04:57That's in line with pre-injury Jason Tatum.
05:00And he has attempted 75 of 139 shots for three.
05:04So 54% of his attempts from the field are from the three.
05:08Do you think his usage rate is too high?
05:10And do you think he's shooting too many threes?
05:11I think the threes might be a little bit too much because we've been talking about this for
05:14years when Jason Tatum's at his best.
05:16It's kind of a mixture of the three point shot, which is an important part of his game, but
05:19also getting downhill.
05:21And I will give him credit.
05:22I think we've talked about this, you know, as he was ramping up and getting closer to
05:25returning, how willing was he going to be, be getting downhill and attacking, you know,
05:30at the rim.
05:31And I think he has done that, but at times it does feel like he is settling a little bit
05:35from three and Derek White and Joe Mazzula talked about it at practice yesterday where they
05:38like the shots he's getting, but at times you still want to see him get downhill because
05:42he's been efficient in getting downhill and scoring that way.
05:45Like he's been driving, looks comfortable in doing so.
05:48So maybe that the usage rate, I don't really like that's how it should be.
05:52It's like Jason Tatum.
05:53Obviously this team needed to spark offensively.
05:55We talked about it with the Anthony Simons trade.
05:57Like part of the calculus was that Jason Tatum can come in and kind of be that other scorer,
06:02be that other offensive engine, which you expect him to be.
06:05And it's been pretty much in line with Jalen Brown.
06:07Like their usage rates have been essentially the same.
06:09But yeah, when you look at some of the numbers, you know, obviously the minutes are down overall,
06:14you know, compared to other seasons that he's had, the free throws are way down, right?
06:17So like this is, he's taking as many free throws per game.
06:20It's only eight games and it's his first eight back.
06:22So I'm not like freaking out about it, but it's, this is what he was doing his first two
06:26years in the league.
06:26The last few, he takes twice as many, sometimes even closer to three times as many free throws.
06:32Do you think that's something that's coming?
06:34Like, is he taking more contact as these games go on?
06:37Is he putting the ball on the floor and going to the hoop a little bit more looking for
06:39that?
06:40Or is it still, you know, a work in progress?
06:43And maybe this is the version of Tatum we're going to see this season.
06:46You know, a part of it too, I think is the post in the last two years, they've really
06:50utilized the post up presence with him and Porzingis.
06:52And we haven't really seen that a ton this year as he's come back, which you kind of expect,
06:57right?
06:57He's going to be a little bit more hesitant to do that.
06:59That's a lot of contact down low.
07:00You're kind of walling guys off trying to get into position.
07:02So we haven't really seen him unlock that yet.
07:05And it's a lot of his free throws last year came from getting to the post.
07:08Like he was fouled a ton on those post up attempts.
07:11So I think the post is also paying into playing into that a little bit where he's not really
07:15utilizing that as much.
07:16And I think that'll come with time.
07:17You kind of understand why he's a little hesitant to do that.
07:20Like that's a lot of pressure backing the guy down, trying to get his position.
07:23So once he gets back like more comfortable in utilizing the post, I think that number will
07:27go up a little bit more.
07:27But all in all, like I've still been very pleased with what you've seen, like on both
07:32ends of the floor, like his defense has been good.
07:34Like obviously, you know, he's not, doesn't have the burst that he had last year pre-injury
07:38and that's to be expected.
07:39But I think nothing's really changed through these last two games that he looks well ahead
07:44of schedule and way better than what people really expected.
07:47Does Jalen look like he's wearing down at all to you?
07:49A little bit.
07:50I mean, you could see the field goal percentage is dropping a little bit.
07:53Like what he's played how many games this year?
07:55Like almost all of them.
07:57And like, it's the first time he's done it carrying the team.
08:00Like, I mean, you need him ever.
08:02I would call those heavy minutes.
08:03Like even if his minutes aren't out of whack and his games aren't that out of whack with
08:07what he's done before, these are heavy minutes because he is the guy and has been all year.
08:12Yeah.
08:13He's played with 64 games this year.
08:14So he's been available pretty much every night playing high minutes and obviously a very
08:18physical player as well.
08:19And I think with him, he benefited from earlier in the year, guys like Jordan Walsh, guys like
08:24Ugo Gonzalez taking over the top responsibility of the opposing player's best player.
08:29And more often, you know, he's been kind of doing that where the burden that he now carries
08:34offensively doesn't necessarily allow him to do that.
08:36Like it was different when you had guys like Holiday, White and Porzingis, like all of
08:41those guys in the lineup where you had so many scoring threats that you didn't necessarily
08:44need to exhaust all your energy on the offensive side of the ball where he could pick up the
08:49opposing players, you know, best scorer, best player.
08:51And I feel like he's doing that a little bit too much this year.
08:54And, you know, he very vocal.
08:55He wants to be known as one of the best two way players in the league.
08:57And I think he's proven that this year that he can be that.
09:00But I'd like to see him kind of take a little bit of a step back and, you know, stay
09:04fresh
09:04for the postseason because what only a handful more games here, a couple more weeks.
09:08All right.
09:08In the spirit of would you rather Wednesday?
09:10We'll have Terp answer this one first.
09:11Then Jones, I want to hear your answer as well.
09:13Okay.
09:14Would you rather the Celtics get a win tonight over the Thunder, but finish third place in the Eastern
09:21Conference or lose tonight and have the two seed?
09:26I'd probably want the two seed just because same, especially with Cade Cunningham's injury.
09:30Like if they bow out, if the Pistons lose in the postseason, you jump up and you get home court.
09:35So that's my answer to, I just, the one pushback would be the Celtics record against other good
09:39teams this year.
09:39Hasn't been great.
09:40You know, Jones was saying they got swept by the Spurs.
09:43I think all the good teams in the West, like the good, good teams have beaten them.
09:46This would be another loss to the Thunder.
09:48So it would be, you know, these measuring stick games.
09:52You've come up on the wrong side of it.
09:53Now, most of it was without Tatum too.
09:55That was just going to be my pushback on that where it's like, and look, Tatum was there
09:59for the Spurs game.
10:00Jalen was there for half of it.
10:02Tatum wasn't there for the Thunder game.
10:03They won in the final second.
10:05Yeah.
10:05And look, and Tatum, if you want to count some of the Eastern teams, Tatum was there for
10:09the game against Cleveland where they ran Cleveland out of the Cavs gym.
10:13So my, my pushback on that number and their struggles against elite teams, I'm not saying
10:18it's not true.
10:19I'm just saying Tatum wasn't there for a lot of that.
10:21I don't know how relevant that would be for the post season.
10:23I would, I would rather have the two seed.
10:24I would definitely rather have the two seed.
10:26Cause I really think, you know, people understand the patience that's required with, you know,
10:30bringing Jason Tatum back in at this stage of the season.
10:32And obviously him ramping up, like right now, like in terms of where he is in his calendar,
10:37what it's probably like the end of the preseason beginning of the first couple of weeks of the
10:41season.
10:42Like it's really early in the season for him in terms of like a ramp up stage, you know,
10:45he hasn't been playing obviously.
10:47So I think the real judgment of this team will be in the post season.
10:50Once we kind of get past all this and potentially the minute restrictions gone and all that.
10:54But I mean, you can't ignore their struggles against some of the top teams, right?
10:58Like I think it's against top teams, like in the Western conference, I think they have
11:02one or two wins.
11:03It was against the Lakers.
11:04Like they don't really, yeah, I think it's, is it like, yeah, they're, they're two and
11:08oh, against the Lakers.
11:09I think one went over Houston.
11:10That's what it was without Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum.
11:13They beat them in Houston.
11:13Like right after the trade, like nuggets, T wolves, Spurs, thunder, maybe like old seven
11:17or like whatever, whatever it is.
11:18And there was a graphic too.
11:19I saw one.
11:20If we want to play the game with who's in and who's out, the wolves one was especially bad.
11:23Cause that was no Edwards and you had both your guys.
11:25Right.
11:25But I also look at it too, where I'm saying, I think it's more important.
11:28I'm more worried about the Eastern conference, you know, like similar to like the Patriots
11:32run where you're like, let's see how the AFC shakes down.
11:35And if it's Rams, Seahawks or whoever will cross that bridge when you get to it.
11:38And maybe it'll be a similar result if they, if they get to it.
11:41But yeah, I would rather have game seven against the Knicks at home.
11:43A hundred percent.
11:44Yeah.
11:45And right now they're tied.
11:45We're talking mostly about Western conference teams.
11:48You don't got to worry about them until the NBA finals.
11:49Like I think if you're looking at three series prior to that, Cleveland hasn't shown any
11:53way that they can compete with them.
11:54They're three and oh against Cleveland Detroit.
11:56The team, the team is the next.
11:57That's the only team I think worth even halfway fearing in the East.
12:01They beat you last year.
12:02They've won a bunch of playoff series the last two years.
12:04That's the team.
12:05I don't worry about the other.
12:06And I know they lost the, you know, the Knicks in the second game of the season, but
12:09I left that, like left that game feeling a lot better about them early in the year.
12:14Cause obviously they dropped the oh and two.
12:15There's a ton of questions around them, but it was really a massive run in the second
12:18quarter is why they won that.
12:20I'm pretty sure they outscored them the other, you know, three quarters.
12:22Like they were good that night.
12:24It was just that one run in the second quarter that kind of screwed them.
12:27And then Superbowl Sunday was a dud.
12:29Like they got blown out.
12:30That one wasn't, that was a bad one, but I don't really fear that they can't compete
12:34with New York.
12:35Like I know New York's playing much better.
12:37I don't fear that they can't compete with them.
12:38I'm just saying if I, if I have to take a team seriously in the East, that's not the
12:42Celtics.
12:42That's, that's, I would agree.
12:43Cause you don't know what you're going to get with Cade.
12:45And I don't think anyone, any of us are really worried about the Cavs.
12:48Well, speaking of Cade last week, uh, I think it was last week, right?
12:50It was the day you were on.
12:51We found out that he was out.
12:52It was right around.
12:53It was when we were watching.
12:55Yeah, it was, um, oh, you're right.
12:57It was the next day of the tournament.
12:58We were at Jake and Joe's.
12:59We were all horn frogs.
13:00Uh, it's obviously a tough blow for them.
13:02This is sort of a bigger picture NBA question.
13:04I get why they put in the 65 game minimum rule for player rewards.
13:09I think it's supposed to cut down on load management.
13:11You want your stars to play.
13:13This is like one case that you're like, oh man, like for him not to be recognized as an
13:18all NBA player for the season that he had Detroit's in first place.
13:21They have been wire to wire and it's not like he played 40 games or 50 games.
13:26The guy played what?
13:2761 games, 61 games.
13:29Do you think they tweaked that or should they tweak that?
13:31I honestly like, I like it that it forces players to play.
13:34Obviously players are going for it, but in terms of the award itself, do you ever feel
13:38like we were sitting at the end of the season being like, wait, that guy got it and only
13:42played so-and-so amount of games.
13:43Like, I think the voters did a decent job as, as is.
13:47Maybe.
13:47I feel like when we would argue about stuff that would, that would come up, but yeah,
13:51how did the voters do with it?
13:52I don't, I don't know.
13:52I feel like the voters did okay with just kind of valuing who was out there.
13:56Baseball was, baseball's worse.
13:57Like Mike Trout will play 110 games and get MVP votes.
14:00And you're like, guys, come on.
14:02And whereas this one, you're right.
14:04There was that great Bob Ryan tweet where he was reacting to somebody who actually had
14:08the correct information in the tweet, but he was still trying to correct him.
14:10He's still yelling at him.
14:11But like true MVPs.
14:12So all NBA would be a different conversation and I'm sure you could find other examples,
14:15but like real MVPs all played a high percentage of their games because they're competing with
14:22all these guys.
14:22Like it's a pretty good tiebreaker.
14:23You're like, oh, one guy played 75.
14:25One guy played 55.
14:26I think we'll go with the guy that played 75.
14:28I'm sure for all NBA, to your point, that's a little bit different.
14:30I think the spirit of that rule was probably in the right place.
14:34I agree.
14:34Where it's like, we want, we don't want guys resting on back-to-backs and, you know, we
14:38don't want to deal with Popovich ruining things with load management.
14:41But then, right, there should be exceptions with like Cade Cunningham was well on his way
14:45to play in those games and he suffered an injury late.
14:47You should write a letter to your congressman.
14:48What if you put it to like 55?
14:49Put it down a little bit.
14:50Or even 60.
14:51Like 60 is five more games and I don't know how that percentage adds, makes out, but that's
14:5675% of the games.
14:57That probably does need a tweak.
14:59I didn't really follow up on this because this is not a concern of mine, but I did hear
15:03the Greg Hill show talking about how Brad Stevens, I guess, was a name suggested by
15:07North Carolina.
15:08He's withdrawn his name from the North Carolina vacancy.
15:11I personally don't think he's ever going back to college and I wonder if he's ever going
15:15to coach again.
15:16Let me take the lifetime Celtic off the table, Terp.
15:18Okay.
15:19So let's see, even if that's the most likely in your mind, he's not a lifetime Celtic.
15:22He's going to go, he's going to leave the Celtics to do something else.
15:25What would that even be if Brad Stevens were to ever leave the Celtics?
15:29I feel like you'd make a good college coach, especially now with the GM experience.
15:33So you think college, you think college coaching is still how NIL is kind of impacted how
15:38teams are built.
15:39He might be good at it.
15:40That's just such a headache.
15:41Like that is such a headache to go chase around these kids.
15:44If he likes what he's doing now and he ever got the itch to go back to coaching, you'd
15:48get to do both.
15:48And it's important to be good at both if you're going to be a collegiate coach.
15:52So I think it would be that.
15:53I don't see him being a head coach in the NBA again.
15:56It's like, just granted how good, given how good he is at what he's doing as the president
16:00of basketball operations.
16:01Like if you went to college, he would pay you a ton of money to go out and kind of
16:06run
16:06everything there, run both.
16:08Like it's such an important aspect of college coaching, like the recruiting and all that.
16:12And I think it would be best fit for that.
16:14But I don't see it.
16:16Oh, I thought he was going to have this job for one or two years.
16:18I was way wrong on that.
16:19So I don't think he's going back to college.
16:21If he really, really, really got the itch to coach again, I wonder if he tries to leverage
16:26it, do both, be like a Bill Belichick, be like, all right, I'm going to pick my players
16:30and I'll coach my players.
16:31And then a team like Phoenix or somebody like takes a shot at or some, you know, some other
16:35team is like, all right, we'll, we'll try that with you.
16:37You build great rosters.
16:38And if you want to coach them, go ahead.
16:39NBA is a good lifestyle compared to like, you're constantly recruiting and keeping kids
16:43staying in.
16:44And now you're paying these kids.
16:45Like college is a nightmare now that is not an enjoyable life.
16:48You know, the NBA, you have an off season.
16:50Like I think if he, if he leaves the Celtics, I think he'd be doing the same thing just for
16:55another organization.
16:56And he'd get tired of Chisholm's crap and cheaping out.
16:59And he actually wants to run a basketball organization and not worry about like the bottom line.
17:04I think he'd just do the same thing just for another NBA team.
17:06Cause that's a, that's a good lifestyle.
17:08The Bill Belichick point is kind of interesting.
17:10Like if he does something like that, it's just, there's so many hoops now that you have
17:14to jump through as an M as like running an NBA team with all the aprons and all that.
17:18Like it would be really difficult to do what he's doing, but I don't know.
17:22I just feel like the NIL tie in, like he might look at that as a fun challenge.
17:26Again, I don't see him leaving the Celtics anytime soon, but if we're playing along
17:28with the game, I think the NIL aspect is kind of interesting.
17:31Okay.
17:32Pure hoops with Terp every Wednesday at high noon.
17:35You can check out his stuff, uh, at Justin M Turpin on Twitter and all over W E I as
17:41well.
17:41Terp hang out.
17:42Cause you're going to be a part of the second annual Jones and Keith dong draft.
17:47Last year we drafted four players each this year.
17:50We're drafting four non-Red Sox.
17:52Well, actually that's not the right minimum one Red Sox.
17:54We're each drafting five players.
17:56Take five socks.
17:57If you want one has to be a Red Sox.
17:59Did we get the order yet?
18:00Yeah.
18:00You are.
18:01You're, uh, you're drafting fifth cause you won last year.
18:04Keith is drafting first cause he lost last year.
18:06Okay.
18:06Yeah.
18:06Well, you also lost.
18:08Uh, well, I did better than everyone, but Terp, but yes, I didn't, I didn't technically
18:13win.
18:13Right.
18:14Uh, Keith, Keith on the doubles category in the Dongs league last year, which was very,
18:18and maybe steals.
18:19Uh, so Terp, our reigning champ will be drafting fifth.
18:24Keith will be drafted, uh, drafting first, uh, figure out where everybody else fits in.
18:28But yes, we're taking five players minimum one Red Sox each the dong draft right after
18:33trending with Billy Laney.
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