- 2 minutes ago
Growing up, Paul Rosolie thought all the great adventures were already taken. Until he traveled to the Amazon and realized just how much of the world is still waiting to be explored. His journey into the rainforest inspired him to co-found Junglekeepers, a nonprofit dedicated to saving the Amazon and, by extension, the rest of us. In this episode, Paul breaks down how a killer hook and a carefully structured story can get your brand message across. Turns out, wrestling anacondas is optional, but it definitely helps people pay attention.
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00:00What is the worst thing you've ever stepped on?
00:03I have a stingray bite.
00:04I have a stingray bite in my foot right there.
00:07That's where the nice stingray went in, and then it flayed the skin.
00:10And I tell you, I have a really high pain tolerance.
00:12That was by far.
00:13Like, I was, I was, I was, it hurt so much I wasn't even mad.
00:16I was just making deals with God.
00:18I was like, I was like, I will do whatever you want.
00:20Just make this a time.
00:21So you take an Advil and it was fine.
00:24Well, I took like a handful, but yeah.
00:32Hey everyone, welcome to How Success Happens.
00:35I'm Dan Bova, writer and editor at entrepreneur.com.
00:39So if you've ever relocated for work, I think today's guest has you beat.
00:44He was born in Brooklyn, grew up in New Jersey,
00:47and for about two decades has worked in the Amazon rainforest.
00:51Paul Rosalie is the founder of Jungle Keepers,
00:54an organization that to date has protected more than 100,000 acres of forest
00:59in the Amazon.
01:01He's written about his experiences in this incredible new book,
01:05which is fascinating, inspiring, and terrifying.
01:08I don't think he's calling in after having just wrestled a 20-foot anaconda,
01:13but if you read the book, you know it is not out of the realm of possibility.
01:17Welcome, Paul.
01:20Thanks for having me.
01:20Also, I have to tell you that two days ago, that's exactly what we did.
01:24We found an anaconda on the side of the river, so it literally just happened.
01:31We just found a—well, she was 11.5, not all her 20-footers, but she was a big girl.
01:37Wow.
01:38So this has become something that you do.
01:44Was that—I read your book, so I know a little bit about the answer here,
01:47but for people who haven't read it yet, was this part of the plan?
01:50Yeah.
01:51Weirdly enough, it kind of was.
01:52Like, when I was a kid, my parents, you know, it's monster trucks or dinosaurs, right,
01:56when you're a kid, and it's—I was always dinosaurs, and then streams, the woods,
02:02animals, snakes, frogs, lizards, salamanders, loved all that stuff.
02:06When the—you know, one of your friends growing up would have, like, a reptile party
02:10that would just drive—I would just be so excited.
02:14And so, yeah, the rainforest, even when I was a very little kid, I used to ask my mom
02:18to go to the library, and we'd get those, you know, those big coffee table books with
02:21the photos.
02:22That was my favorite, and I'd go through, and I'd look at all these jungle pictures from
02:26around the world, and be like, oh, man, orangutans and elephants and anacondas, and then they
02:31brought me to the Bronx Zoo, where I saw scientists—there's a picture at the Bronx Zoo of scientists
02:35holding an anaconda.
02:36There's like 10 people holding this big anaconda, you know, and you learn that there's these
02:42animals out there, and there's these incredible places that are still super wild, where no
02:46one's been, and they're filled with hornbills and species no one has described yet, and giant
02:51snakes and Sumatran tigers, and there's scientists.
02:55People have this job that's protecting them, so I grew up learning that, and hearing about
03:00Jane Goodall and all this, and then the contrast was that they made me go to school, where I
03:05had to sit in the chair all day, you know, and I was bored, and I had to listen to
03:11rules,
03:12and I went, why do I have such a boring life, and these people have had such an interesting
03:16life?
03:18Right.
03:18And that really wound me up, and so I was always—and I'm just severely dyslexic, but
03:22we didn't know it, so I was never getting good grades, so yes, it was part of the plan
03:26from the beginning that I wanted to be on adventures.
03:28I wanted to find purpose, and I really, really, really wanted to wrestle giant snakes.
03:35Yeah, that's incredible, and one of the things that really struck me when I was reading your
03:41book is that part of your life, too, because you write about a feeling that I think a lot
03:47of people have, which was that you felt like, oh, I'm too late, all the good stuff already
03:52happened already.
03:53What do you say to that now, looking back to that emotion, like, oh, I missed the good
03:59times?
03:59I grew up so depressed by that.
04:02It was an overwhelming, all-encompassing feeling that I was like, oh, shit, I was born in the
04:06wrong time.
04:07I'm not going to be able to do the things that, you know, people did.
04:11And so, yeah, exploring, like, upstate New York, they're like, look, the trees that are
04:15here are only 15 years old because they were clear-cut.
04:18The water is polluted.
04:19You cannot drink it.
04:21The Native Americans are gone, so you can't talk to them.
04:24East Coast mountain lions are extinct.
04:26The wolves have been reintroduced.
04:27It's like, everything's fake.
04:28I was like, man, this sucks.
04:30And I love being on the side of a mountain and making a fire and feeling alone in nature.
04:37I love that feeling.
04:38But I also wanted to turn it up to, you know, turn it up to 100.
04:42Yeah.
04:43And so, yeah, I think a lot of people with whatever it is, there's a few mistakes they
04:47make.
04:47A, that all the good stuff already happened.
04:49And then B, that we're somehow living at the end of times.
04:51And, like, I think every generation thinks that.
04:55I think that if you're just starting at 1900, it's like, you know, leading up to World
04:59War I, the world's coming to an end.
05:02The Dust Bowl, the world's coming to an end.
05:04World War II, the world's coming to an end.
05:06It's like, it's always, it always seems so scary, but there's always something wild
05:10happening.
05:11And now it's the environment.
05:13And we're at this critical moment with the environment.
05:15And everyone loves to go, the world is coming to an end.
05:18And it's like, yes, but we need to, we just need to save the environment.
05:20There used to be a hole in the ozone layer.
05:22They figured it out, and now it's fixed.
05:25Bald eagles used to be going extinct because of DDT poisoning in the water that was gutting
05:29into the fish and destroying the bald eagles' eggs.
05:32And now bald eagles are back.
05:34And it's, these, these things need people to identify problems, create solutions, and
05:40then implement them.
05:41I think just to sort of level set a little bit, can you tell everyone what Jungle Keepers
05:47is?
05:47Jungle Keepers started, when I went to the Amazon, I made friends with this guy, JJ,
05:53who's a local SAEHA, indigenous native.
05:57And he grew up so native that he didn't have shoes until he was 13 years old.
06:01Grew up in the jungle, learned all the medicinal plants and the, how to track the animals, and
06:06also saw his forest get destroyed.
06:09He grew up hunting monkeys and peccaries and, and fishing out of the rivers.
06:13And then he saw the, the, the natural wealth of the ecosystem around his community get depleted.
06:19So by the time he was a young man, he was, he was saying, man, we ruined it.
06:24And so he struck out and went to go find the wildest part.
06:26He already lived in the Amazon and he wanted to go further into the Amazon.
06:30So he spent, I think he said nine months exploring around the Western Amazon to find the most remote
06:36place that he could reasonably get to.
06:37And he set up this little research camp.
06:40And so from there, that's where I, I met him.
06:42I came as a volunteer jungle keepers today, 20 years after we met is the most direct way
06:50for people around the world to protect the Amazon rainforest.
06:53That's the mission that we set out on.
06:55I saw a huge problem in that when, you know, when you get asked by a major organization to
07:00give money, to save the environment, well, where is, where are my dollars going?
07:05You know, or is it going to your CEOs for a $500,000, you know, or is it going to
07:11the
07:11polar bears?
07:11Is it going to the ocean?
07:12Are we saving this?
07:13I have no idea.
07:14Jungle keepers works with one river.
07:16We're trying to save the crown jewel of the Western Amazon.
07:19This one incredibly wild river where there's still undiscovered species, incredibly high
07:23biodiversity, forests that have been growing since the dawn of time.
07:26There's still uncontacted Mashko Piro tribes out there.
07:29People with bows and arrows that have no idea what World War II or Jesus or a laptop or spoons
07:34or the wheel are none of it, none of it, absolutely none of it.
07:38They have no idea that the world, that there are parts of the world that aren't jungle.
07:44They've been living in this time capsule out there.
07:47And so now jungle keepers, A, works to better the lives of the indigenous people.
07:51B, is protecting now 130,000 acres of rainforest in the Western Amazon with millions and millions
07:58of heartbeats.
07:59And the most important thing is that we've created a link between the endangered species,
08:04the ancient trees, the local people on this river and the people around the world that
08:09are going to make it possible to save this river.
08:11And so we're working to triage this place that's going to be destroyed, but now we're
08:16halfway towards protecting it.
08:17So jungle keepers is this organization that allows rapid action to save and a threatened
08:24ecosystem.
08:25What I love about this is it is such a huge, huge undertaking and you detail how it grew
08:34in your book.
08:35But I wonder if you could talk to us about that, having this really big notion, fighting
08:42the emotion that a lot of us might have, which is like, how am I supposed to do anything about
08:46this?
08:47I'm one person protecting millions of acres or hundreds of thousands of acres.
08:52How did, how do you start something like that?
08:55How do you think it's even possible?
08:59That's an incredibly good question because when it started, I would say the, if you look
09:04at, if you made like a graph of the, of what has happened, you know, I went down there and
09:10my dream was just to see the Amazon, you know?
09:13So I got down there, I got to see the Amazon.
09:15I found, saw some snakes.
09:16I saw macaws, made friends with, with JJ, which was, which was the most, you know, the
09:22most powerful thing that happened without him.
09:25He's the key that opened the Amazon.
09:26You know, he said, come on, let's go do some stuff.
09:28Let's come with me and my family.
09:29Let's go catch anacondas.
09:31Let's go.
09:32And so the first five years I was down there, I really wanted to, I aspired to protecting
09:38forests.
09:38I said, wow, I see forest being destroyed, but the people who were the practitioners
09:43of the dreams that I had were people with PhDs who worked for major institutions who
09:48had things that I could never have.
09:49So in my mind, I could not understand that there was even a pathway towards that because
09:55I was like, I am dyslexic.
09:57I am terrible at school.
09:58I always got terrible grades.
09:59I'm not going to get a PhD.
10:00I don't have a trust fund.
10:02I don't have an organization.
10:05We called it the barefoot machete days because it was just me and JJ on the side of a river
10:10and we'd lost all support.
10:12And we just, we just did it for pure love of the jungle.
10:17And then after so many years, you know, we going straight towards the goal isn't always
10:22the thing we, you know, yes, we want to protect forests, but we can't protect forests.
10:25Well, we want to be in the forest then.
10:27And we said, well, let's go on crazy adventures and explore wild places.
10:30And so we just did years of that because that was what we truly loved.
10:34And so the audacity to imagine that we could possibly do anything is probably the, that's
10:40the, that's the magic serum is the, the foolishness to think that you can, because I don't remember
10:45what the hell we were thinking when we started it.
10:47Cause if you had told us what we were going to have to do, we would have said, no, a
10:53hundred
10:53percent, a hundred percent.
10:54If someone said, look, 15 more years, uh, you're going to have this many tropical diseases.
11:00You're going to have this many machete wounds.
11:02You're going to be bitten by this many crocodiles.
11:04And, you know, you're going to be hunted by narco traffickers.
11:07Like it's just, if somebody said, these are the things you're going to have to do, we
11:10said, I don't know about that.
11:12Yeah.
11:13Well, you write a lot about, uh, the, the myriad of dangers that you faced.
11:20And, uh, I don't know why I obsessed on this part of it, but that whole barefoot thing really
11:27like freaked me out.
11:28Cause I'm like, as I'm reading, I'm like, Paul, you're going to step on something poisonous.
11:32You're going to step in an alligator's mouth or whatever.
11:35Uh, what, what is the worst thing you've ever stepped on?
11:40I have a, I have a stingray bite in my foot right there.
11:44That's where the stingray went in.
11:46And then it flayed the skin off of it's wagged while it was in there.
11:49So it went in and then it flayed the skin off of my foot.
11:54And I tell you, I have a really high pain tolerance.
11:56That was by far.
11:57Like I was, I was, I was, it hurts so much.
12:00I wasn't even mad.
12:01I was just making deals with God.
12:02I was like, I was like, I will do whatever you want.
12:05Just make this a time.
12:06It's like, I was telling everybody like, bring me whatever drugs you have.
12:10I was like, anybody, anybody, anything.
12:12I was like, just kill me.
12:13I was just laying on the floor screaming.
12:16I didn't know what to do.
12:18It was humbling pain.
12:19It was good pain.
12:20It was good to learn.
12:21Cause I thought I could handle anything and I couldn't handle that.
12:23So you take an Advil and it was fine.
12:26Well, it took like a handful, but yeah, no, actually the local people went to, there's
12:34two different trees that they went to and they scratched the bark of the trees and they
12:38make a poultice and they put it in leaves and they put it on a pan and they heat it
12:42up
12:42and then extremely hot medicinal plants.
12:45This is where working with native people is good.
12:47They put that against the wound and then wrap your foot and the heat and the medicine
12:53pulls the venom out.
12:54It was disgusting.
12:55The venom came out in black venom blood, destroyed cells had been destroyed by the venom.
13:01And, uh, over the next 24 hours, they kept replacing this, this system and it kept pulling
13:07the venom out of my foot.
13:08And gradually after about seven hours, the pain got down to a level where I was like, okay,
13:12I might live.
13:14Wow.
13:15And they kept working on me.
13:17And amazingly it didn't get infected because, and, and for people listening, there's a lot
13:21of people that, um, apparently I've never been stung by an ocean stingray, but there's
13:25people that go, Oh, I got stung by a stingray at the ocean.
13:28It hurt.
13:28And then I like went and talked to the lifeguard and like he gave me a lollipop and I felt
13:31better.
13:32This is not what the ones in the, it's not the same thing at all.
13:39I'll believe you as someone who was stung by a jellyfish.
13:42I, I, uh, it hurt, but, uh, not what you're describing.
13:46Um, you know, one of the, one of the just memorable scenes in your book too, is your decision
13:53to climb this 100 foot tree.
13:56And it's like, you're climbing into something out of Lord of the Rings or something.
14:03It's just like, you're in this whole other universe.
14:06Can you describe the way you describe how big these branches are?
14:10And there's just whole other ecosystems living up in this tree, you know, 50, a hundred feet
14:16up.
14:16It's, it's wild.
14:18Yeah, no, it's, it's more than you can, uh, rationally imagine.
14:23When you're in a place like New York, the, the trees just aren't, you know, I'm talking
14:27about a tree where the base of this tree is bigger than most people's living rooms.
14:31And then the tree goes up like a skyscraper.
14:34These trees are topping out at 160 feet, the top of the branches.
14:37So the canopy of the rainforest is here at probably about 120, 160 feet.
14:42You have these emergent giants and you're talking about millennium trees, trees that have been
14:47growing for a thousand years plus.
14:49And I got it in my head that one of them in particular, I saw it all the time as
14:53I'd
14:53walk on this trail and I said, I want to climb this tree.
14:57And the, the, you know, it's not like climbing a pine tree where there's things to grab.
15:00This is a column that goes straight up like a New York city skyscraper.
15:04And then 120 feet in the air, then you have branches coming up.
15:08But those branches are the size of the biggest Oak tree you've ever seen.
15:13And growing on them are orchids and lichids and bromeliads and there's snakes and lizards
15:18and wasp nests and macaws and monkeys.
15:21There's thousands of species on a single tree.
15:22And so when you start climbing these trees, you have to go with a rope system.
15:26Like you're, like you're climbing, like you're rock climbing a major mountain.
15:29And so it's trad climbing.
15:31You climb up 30 feet, put in gear, you climb 30 feet, put in gear.
15:35And by putting gear, I mean, wrap it around a vine and then put your rope through a carabiner.
15:39So then once, right before you get to the next 30 feet, if you're 25 feet up, if you fall,
15:43you still fall 50 feet and smash against the tree.
15:45So it is still terrifying, but at least you probably won't die.
15:49You'll just shatter, you know, your femur or something.
15:53But then when I got on top of this tree, we climbed early, early, early morning
15:57because we were worried that I would get on top and get attacked by bees.
16:01And so we, we got on top of that.
16:03I got on top of this tree and I was the first person, you got to think this tree has
16:06been out there since,
16:07I mean, Da Vinci, the world wars, everything.
16:10There's a thousand years of history.
16:12This tree has been out in the Amazon rainforest,
16:14just standing there and getting bigger and bigger and bigger and putting these arms out above the jungle.
16:19And so to be the first person to stand on top of one of those branches and look out,
16:23and I was there right at sunset sunrise.
16:26And you see the, you see the sunrise come over the East.
16:29And what it did was it illuminated something I'd only ever read about in books,
16:34which was the invisible mist river that flows above the Amazon rainforest.
16:38And I had read about this invisible mist river where they said,
16:41there's a mist river that flows above the Amazon rainforest that nobody knows about.
16:45And it's bigger than the Amazon itself.
16:47And, and it's completely invisible.
16:49And I was like, okay.
16:50And that's like one of those things you hear that the earth has a molten core or that there's black
16:54holes.
16:55You go, sure.
16:55Sure. Why not?
16:56It says that's a, that's a real pretty story.
16:58I can't see.
17:00Um, and, and then on that one morning,
17:03I'm standing up on this giant tree branch so big that I could walk around on it.
17:07Like it's avatar and I'm standing up there and I climbed further out onto this branch and I could see
17:12the mist river flowing over the Amazon in the morning sunlight.
17:16And there's howler monkeys screaming and there's macaws and there's all these parrots flying across the sky and the jungle
17:22alive at dawn.
17:24And the other thing you think this is the most biodiverse place on earth.
17:28There's nowhere on earth where we have terrestrially more species.
17:30And at dawn,
17:31everything wakes up and there's 50% of the life in a rainforest exists only in the canopy.
17:37So the canopy of the rainforest at dawn is a carnival.
17:41And I'm standing up there seeing this,
17:43this incredible natural process flowing over the end.
17:49And so I just said,
17:49I have to share this with the world.
17:52And, you know,
17:52in that moment you can't do anything but,
17:54but cry.
17:55And then after the afterwards you go,
17:57okay,
17:57now how do we share this with people?
18:00And that's what led us to build.
18:01We built the Alta Sanctuary tree house,
18:03which is the tallest tree house on in the world.
18:05And we have,
18:06you know,
18:07bathroom,
18:07shower,
18:08bed.
18:08People can go stay there.
18:09And now other people get to sleep up in the treetops in one of these giant trees and experience what
18:16I saw.
18:16And almost every morning is this incredible,
18:18every now and then you get a rainy morning,
18:19but almost every single morning you watch the sun come over the east and it's absolutely breathtaking.
18:24It's just incredible.
18:26That's incredible.
18:27And what I love about that too is that your reason for doing it,
18:32you didn't have an express purpose.
18:34You were just like,
18:34I just want to try it.
18:37I just want to see what I see.
18:39And that's such a beautiful thing for anyone in any endeavor,
18:45in any part of the world doing whatever it is you're doing.
18:49Just,
18:49just do something to do it because you don't know what's there until you get there.
18:54Yeah.
18:54And I think that's important,
18:56whether it's music or writing or art or whatever you're doing.
19:01I think that there is something huge to be said for doing what you enjoy the most,
19:05because,
19:06you know,
19:06if,
19:06if I'm,
19:07if I'm painting the way I like painting specifically,
19:10well,
19:10that's,
19:11that's your voice on it.
19:13You know,
19:13that's your take on it.
19:15And then there's going to be people that enjoy your take,
19:17your vision of the world.
19:18And I think the same thing goes for music.
19:20And certainly the same thing goes for writing.
19:22When you write a book,
19:23there's all kinds of people that'll tell you,
19:24you know,
19:25take out the chapter about elephants.
19:26It doesn't make any sense.
19:28You know,
19:29why is there a chapter about elephants in a book about the Amazon?
19:31It's like,
19:31because I said so.
19:34Because this book's about the jungle.
19:35The scene,
19:36uh,
19:37towards it,
19:37I don't want to give too much away,
19:39but you,
19:40you have contact with an uncontacted tribe that is harrowing.
19:46There's,
19:46there's not a nice handshake or a polite wave.
19:50Like things get kind of ugly using that as an example.
19:53How do you keep yourself together in moments of like,
19:58holy shit,
19:59something bad is about to happen?
20:01Well,
20:01here's the thing in moments where something bad is about to happen.
20:04It's very simple.
20:04There's a,
20:05it's a,
20:05it's a,
20:06it's a binary thing.
20:07It's either,
20:07it's going to be okay or it's not.
20:10And so if it's not going to be okay,
20:12you might as well do the best you can and,
20:14and deal with it.
20:16And then,
20:16you know,
20:16if you get shot in the head,
20:17you get shot in the head.
20:18It doesn't matter.
20:19I'm really though.
20:20It's serious.
20:21It's like,
20:21it's like storming the beach at Normandy.
20:22It's like,
20:22okay,
20:23this is a very dangerous situation.
20:25Um,
20:25I can either sit here and think about how dangerous it is,
20:27or I can just act as you would hope someone act,
20:30you would act in this situation as,
20:32as,
20:32as,
20:32as much as each person is going to feel that responsibility and what they hope like
20:36their character is going to do.
20:37And then if it,
20:38you know,
20:38if you end up with a broken femur or a fractured skull or,
20:41you know,
20:42an arrow through the neck,
20:43you,
20:44then that,
20:44then you deal with that.
20:45Do you get to that bridge when you get to that bridge?
20:47So it's like,
20:48you might as well.
20:48And that goes for jumping on an anaconda too.
20:51You know,
20:51you grab it by the neck and then you got,
20:52you got 19 other feet of anaconda wrapping you up and trying to crush you.
20:56And it's like,
20:56but if you don't get the neck,
20:58you don't get,
20:58you don't get,
20:59you don't get a chance to measure this anaconda and to add it to the
21:03scientific database of anacondas.
21:04And so my,
21:05my new philosophy with those situations is just,
21:08it doesn't matter.
21:09It literally doesn't matter.
21:10Try and be as safe as you can,
21:11but what's going,
21:12you cross over a threshold where once you're in it,
21:15you're in it.
21:16Once you have your hands around that anaconda's neck,
21:18that's it.
21:18So I wanted to talk about storytelling,
21:21obviously talking to you,
21:22you're a great storyteller,
21:23read your book.
21:24You're a great writer.
21:25You made this film,
21:26an unseen world,
21:28which was shown at the UN.
21:30And it really opened a lot of eyes to the problem in the Amazon and what you
21:34were trying to accomplish.
21:36If you could talk a little bit about telling a story rather than just telling
21:40people,
21:41there's this problem,
21:42this problem,
21:43this problem,
21:43how that can be more effective.
21:45You know,
21:46each species has an identifying feature.
21:49And it's like,
21:49you look at sharks,
21:51like they're supposed to eat other fish.
21:52And the reason sharks haven't developed a brain in 65 million years is
21:56because the,
21:57you know,
21:57a larger brain is because you can't improve upon a shark.
22:00That's what they,
22:00that's,
22:00they do their,
22:01what they're supposed to do for us.
22:03We have this,
22:04this incredible device and all we do is tell stories.
22:08And that's,
22:08that's what humans do.
22:10And that's how we've gotten here and sharing information.
22:12And so it is incredibly powerful,
22:15but it's also then,
22:16uh,
22:17and because I enjoy storytelling and I grew up on good storytelling and I try to
22:21be a producer of decent storytelling.
22:24Oh,
22:24it's,
22:25it's brutal when you hear bad storytelling.
22:28Um,
22:29and we've all been in that situation where you're standing there and someone's
22:31telling you a story and they go,
22:32and then this happened and then this happened and then this happened.
22:35And you're rolling your eyes going,
22:37Oh my God.
22:38And you're going amazing.
22:39Wow.
22:40That's crazy.
22:41And you're just waiting for this story to be over and it's never going to be
22:44over because they don't know when it's over.
22:47Um,
22:47and that's the problem is that some people aren't telling you a story with a
22:51beginning and an end and a point.
22:52They're just relaying information,
22:54which none of us need to hear.
22:56And,
22:56and so I think that the most important thing with storytelling is you are trying to
23:01communicate something worth communicating.
23:05That's,
23:05and that's whether that's the excitement of a moment or what it really felt like on
23:09the Amazonian morning that you stood on the tree branch or the power of an
23:12anaconda.
23:13And again,
23:13why are,
23:14for my thing,
23:15why am I trying to communicate this?
23:17Why does anybody need to know what I experienced?
23:19Why,
23:19why do I,
23:20why do they need to know what it feels like to have your,
23:22your collarbone almost snapped from the power of an anaconda?
23:24Because,
23:26because these incredible animals are out there.
23:28And why do we need a chapter about elephants and a book about the Amazon?
23:31Because there's these other people are looking for aliens.
23:34Meanwhile,
23:35we have all these non-human beings on this planet that we forget about.
23:38And so to me,
23:40when you start a story,
23:42I like the reservoir dogs rule of,
23:44you know,
23:44reservoir dogs,
23:45the movie,
23:45you start out with somebody's in a car bleeding and,
23:48and Harvey Keitel's driving at a million miles an hour and he's going,
23:50you're going to be okay.
23:51You're going to be okay.
23:52And you're going,
23:52why is this guy shot?
23:54Who shot him?
23:54Is he going to be okay?
23:55Are they going to get there?
23:56You have a million questions in your head.
23:57And so you start like to,
23:59you know,
23:59when you start a story,
24:00you start with the most interesting part,
24:02you know,
24:03you,
24:03what,
24:03yeah,
24:04I would start,
24:04you know,
24:05do you,
24:05you want to know the only way to catch an anaconda that's over 15 feet long?
24:10And people go,
24:10why the hell would you want to catch an anaconda?
24:13You know,
24:15the only way to communicate with an uncontacted tribe is this,
24:18you know,
24:18it's like,
24:19well,
24:20what the hell is that?
24:21You know,
24:21most people don't know what that is.
24:23Right.
24:23Right.
24:24You start with the,
24:26the,
24:26you know,
24:27I,
24:28there's someone,
24:29I was reading a story recently.
24:30He goes,
24:30I think it was a surfer.
24:31He goes,
24:32the first time I died,
24:33I was like,
24:33what?
24:34Yeah.
24:34And it was like,
24:35yeah,
24:35I've been knocked unconscious and my heart stops.
24:38And it's like,
24:38Oh shit.
24:39And what do you do?
24:39And it's like,
24:40I ride waves the size of apartment buildings.
24:43It's like,
24:43Oh wow.
24:44How do you do that?
24:47Storytelling?
24:48It's yes.
24:48It's,
24:48you have to identify what is the message you,
24:51what do you,
24:51what do you want them to get at the end of the story?
24:54Yeah.
24:54Maybe it's a laugh.
24:56Maybe it's,
24:57it's a cry.
24:58Maybe,
24:58maybe it's for them to,
24:59to be amazed,
25:00whatever it is.
25:01But your story's got to have a beginning and an end and a point.
25:03And,
25:04and,
25:04and instead of going,
25:05and then you,
25:07the,
25:07I heard this recently that with any good story,
25:10you have a,
25:11you have a problem that needs a solution.
25:13And this happened.
25:14And then because of that,
25:16this happy,
25:16because this happened,
25:18this,
25:18this happened next.
25:19And it's,
25:19so it's caught,
25:20it's causality.
25:21And so you go,
25:21right,
25:22right,
25:22right.
25:22We wanted to catch anaconda.
25:23So we went into the swamp,
25:24but because we went into the swamp,
25:25we caught the anaconda,
25:26but because we caught the anaconda in the swamp.
25:28Now we had to deal with the fact that we had nothing to stand on.
25:30We were going to drown because we were in the
25:32anaconda's home field advantage.
25:33And now you have people's attention because they're going,
25:35so you're drowning in a swamp at night in the Amazon rainforest.
25:38And you go,
25:38yeah.
25:39And they go,
25:39why?
25:40And go,
25:40because we wanted to learn about these snakes because we had a
25:44suspicion that they were,
25:45that they're vanishing and no one even knows it.
25:48Well,
25:48why would these snakes be vanishing in the Amazon?
25:50Because of bioaccumulation,
25:51because people are pouring more mercury into the ecosystem and the
25:53rainforest is gradually disappearing.
25:55And then at the end you can go,
25:57by the way,
25:57the rainforest is disappearing.
25:58That's why we're doing all of this.
25:59And people go,
26:00that's terrible.
26:00And you go,
26:01yeah,
26:01yeah,
26:01yeah.
26:01But if you start with the rainforest,
26:03rainforest is disappearing and we want to help these people change the
26:06channel.
26:07Right.
26:07Right.
26:07You know,
26:08it's like when that commercial comes on with all the starving dogs and
26:11the Sarah McLachlan,
26:13you're just,
26:14you're just trying to watch,
26:15you know,
26:17saving private Ryan on a Sunday and you don't want to do the sad dogs with
26:22the ribs.
26:22So you change the channel.
26:24No,
26:24nobody wants that.
26:25Right.
26:25Right.
26:26Yeah.
26:26No,
26:27that's,
26:27that's,
26:27that's great advice.
26:28It's great advice.
26:29So we had a listener question come in.
26:32Uh,
26:33this is from Julian.
26:34Uh,
26:35he says,
26:36I,
26:36I read about a type of fish that swims up urine streams into men's urethras.
26:43That ever happened to you?
26:45Yes.
26:46I actually have one right now.
26:47I could show you.
26:49Um,
26:51no,
26:51the legendary dick fish of the Amazon is a real thing.
26:54There's one thing that people get wrong about it though.
26:57They,
26:57they cannot swim.
26:59People think if you just pee into the water,
27:01they can swim up the street.
27:03That's not,
27:04that's never going to happen.
27:05Think people think,
27:06um,
27:07you have to be peeing in the water probably without underwear or boxers on
27:13because that is kind of a filtration system.
27:15But if you're naked swimming in the Amazon and you're peeing and it's like
27:20lightning striking to the power of 10,
27:22but it has happened a few times in history that a tiny fish called a
27:25candiru that has these latching devices.
27:27It's almost like a lamprey.
27:29It'll latch on.
27:29They go up the gills of fish.
27:31And so a few times ones have ended up in a urethra and the only way to get
27:36them out is surgery,
27:38which is not great.
27:40Uh,
27:40I was really hoping you would say that that was a myth.
27:43Not a myth.
27:44Very true.
27:45You're going to have nightmares for the rest of my life.
27:48Yeah.
27:48And so the other scary thing is the,
27:50um,
27:51sometimes they get,
27:52sometimes they get huge.
27:54They get too big to go up a urethra.
27:55And I was fishing not that long ago and I pulled up a fish and I knew
27:59instantly it's like a tick or a leech or other,
28:03like where it's like,
28:04this is a bad animal.
28:05It's not a good animal.
28:06It's like a mosquito.
28:06These things cause death.
28:08This was a big slimy thing with no real eyes.
28:11And it just,
28:12it,
28:12it was making noise.
28:13It was going rant,
28:14rant,
28:14rant.
28:14It was on my hook.
28:17And I,
28:17I showed it to my local friend.
28:19I said,
28:19what is this?
28:20I said,
28:20I don't like that.
28:21And they said,
28:21no,
28:21no,
28:21no.
28:21They said,
28:22that's not good.
28:22They said,
28:23kill it.
28:23Don't even put it back in there.
28:24They're like,
28:24it's going to,
28:25they're just fish that parasitize other fish.
28:28They're like,
28:28it's not.
28:29And I was like,
28:29Oh God.
28:30Wow.
28:31You know,
28:31very,
28:31they're very real.
28:32Candiru is a real.
28:33Wow.
28:34All right.
28:35Good to know everyone.
28:36Don't,
28:36don't,
28:37uh,
28:37don't go bare ass when you're swimming in a Amazonian river.
28:40Let's get to the speed round.
28:42What do you say?
28:43Sure.
28:44What's what happens in the speed round?
28:46Well,
28:46you're the explorer.
28:47So you're about to find out.
28:49Um,
28:51so what is a habit that you are happy to have and one that you wish you could ditch?
28:57Whoa.
28:58A habit that I'm happy to have.
29:00The habit I'm happy to have,
29:02uh,
29:05probably arriving at a moment where I know what I should do.
29:09Um,
29:10and,
29:10and it's the safe option.
29:11And then I have a happy habit of never choosing that option.
29:17And so I've had,
29:18you know,
29:19a lot of these adventures,
29:20you know,
29:20you go,
29:21you get to the edge of the cliff,
29:23you know,
29:23you look over and you go,
29:24I'm not going to go.
29:25There's a monster down there.
29:26It's like,
29:26but then you got to go see what it looks like.
29:29This is a dangerous thing to tell people in a public forum,
29:31but it's like,
29:32you,
29:33you have to be willing to walk that razor edge between what you think you're going to,
29:39you know,
29:39what you think you should do.
29:40And then pushing it a little bit,
29:41you know,
29:42whether it's,
29:42you know,
29:43taking a set of rapids or hiking a little farther than you think you can,
29:46or spending a night out there.
29:47It's like,
29:48just,
29:48just push it a little farther and see if everything's okay.
29:50That's a happy one.
29:52And I,
29:52and I,
29:52I'm going to double up on that one and say that I wish I could change that because
29:56I have so many injuries.
29:57Oh my,
29:58that's going to be my yes and my yin and yang there.
30:00All right.
30:01Thing.
30:01I wish,
30:02I wish I had less injuries.
30:04Got it.
30:04Got it.
30:04Got it.
30:05Um,
30:06so what is something that you miss back home,
30:11uh,
30:11you know,
30:12in the States when you're in the jungle and that's,
30:15what's something you desperately miss about the jungle when you are back in
30:18the States?
30:19Uh,
30:20in the jungle,
30:21I miss like freezing cold drinks,
30:23like an ice,
30:24like ice cold,
30:25ice cold,
30:25refreshing drinks.
30:26When you're out on an expedition,
30:27it's just,
30:28you know,
30:28it's just water.
30:30That's the same temperature as the tropical sun and not,
30:33it's not the best.
30:34Or you just drink coffee all day long.
30:37Um,
30:37and then more importantly is that when I'm back,
30:40I miss everything about the jungle.
30:42You know,
30:42we,
30:42we shower in pristine rivers.
30:45We're jumping in the river and the rivers around.
30:47So showering becomes play.
30:49And,
30:50and going from one place to another,
30:52you're hiking.
30:52And so you're moving all the time.
30:54And then,
30:54you know,
30:55coming back and like standing in a cold,
30:57like tiled room and having some water on parts of you and having to like
31:02stand under,
31:03it's just not as exciting as jumping back,
31:05flipping into a river.
31:06And,
31:07and so I miss Amazonian showers and also falling asleep to the sound of,
31:11of a symphonic roar of life is fun.
31:14Falling asleep.
31:14People have white noise,
31:15uh,
31:16machines in society.
31:17I've just learned.
31:18And in the jungle,
31:19you don't need white noise because there's just this,
31:21this symphonic throb of,
31:23of frogs and night birds and crickets and,
31:26and all of this,
31:27this beautiful,
31:28beautiful thing to fall asleep to.
31:29Well,
31:30one thing I'm just going to point out in your normal shower,
31:32uh,
31:33there's no fish that are going to swim up your,
31:35uh,
31:36pee hole.
31:37So something to think about.
31:39Where's the adrenaline in that?
31:40And the worst thing that can happen is that I slip.
31:42That's not,
31:42that's not,
31:44that's not,
31:44I don't like take a shower with a gun against my head to make it.
31:47Um,
31:49so I'm curious,
31:50what is your favorite way to turn off your brain?
31:54And I'm,
31:54I'm curious about this because a lot of people talk about taking a walk in
31:59nature,
31:59which is what you do 90% of the time.
32:02Is that a way to turn off your brain?
32:04How do you turn off your brain?
32:06My favorite way to turn off my brain is probably working out,
32:09um,
32:10intense,
32:11intense,
32:12repetitive activity.
32:13I mean,
32:14or climbing a giant tree.
32:16It's becoming so immersed in an activity that you can't think about
32:21anything else.
32:21And so I love finding activities that demand full,
32:23full,
32:24full attention.
32:24What's something on social media that just drives you bananas that maybe
32:28gets in your feet all the time that you wish would just go away?
32:33I mean,
32:33other than people not reading the captions,
32:35like sometimes I'll put up a picture of a,
32:37you know,
32:38I'll put up a picture of something conservation related where I'll be like,
32:40Oh,
32:40it's so sad.
32:41We saw this leopard get poached or something,
32:43you know,
32:43and people will just not read the caption.
32:45They'll be like,
32:45why did you shoot that leopard?
32:47And I'm like,
32:47guys,
32:47I'm literally,
32:49I literally,
32:50my whole life is about protecting.
32:53Like just read the damn caption.
32:55But other than that,
32:56I have to say that everybody generally,
33:00I hear people going,
33:01God,
33:01social media is so toxic.
33:02I see people going,
33:03I took a break from Instagram.
33:04I deleted my Instagram.
33:06My Instagram feed is just a highlight reel of amazing people.
33:10I follow,
33:11you know,
33:12painters and conservationists and these amazing people all over the world doing amazing projects,
33:17saving elephants and working to save sea turtles.
33:20And,
33:20and,
33:21and I just cure,
33:22I've curated it to just be the most amazing thing.
33:25So social media for me is this,
33:26I like live in this wildly positive feed of,
33:30of,
33:30of wildlife and,
33:32and cool things.
33:33I don't,
33:33I don't watch the news.
33:34I don't do any of that on social media.
33:35And so you can,
33:37you can make it awesome.
33:38I have no problems with that.
33:40Wow.
33:41Wow.
33:42So speaking of awesome for people who are interested in what you're doing,
33:48obviously they could pick up this book,
33:49which will be out when this episode comes out,
33:52but what else can they do if they want to try to help make,
33:56help you make an impact?
33:58Well,
33:59that is,
34:00that's what,
34:01that's why I'm right.
34:02That's why I wrote this book is that I want a,
34:04for people to understand what I'm doing with jungle keepers and what the whole team has made possible.
34:10And,
34:11and what that consists of is that we have jungle keepers.org and it's a way for people to,
34:16I had this idea where,
34:17you know,
34:18we all,
34:18we all spend a certain amount of money every month.
34:20That's,
34:21that's silly money,
34:22whether that's like a,
34:23you know,
34:24a $9 Frappuccino,
34:25something from Starbucks.
34:28And it's like,
34:29we don't,
34:29you know,
34:30some people go out and get that every day.
34:31And it's like,
34:31for the price of that,
34:32for $5 a month,
34:34if enough people did it,
34:36we could protect a whole river basin tomorrow.
34:38We need to raise $20 million to do it.
34:40And so we have this website and we have a 501c3 and people can see where all the money goes.
34:45And so I have people,
34:46I have mothers that write in and they say,
34:48look,
34:48I watch your content with my kids every night at dinner and we give $5 a month.
34:52Well,
34:52that $5 a month allows us to send rangers,
34:55take loggers and gold miners and turn them into conservation rangers and send them out into the jungle to protect
35:00it instead of cut it down.
35:02And to stop the narco traffickers and the,
35:05and the big time land destroyers from getting in.
35:08And so that's how we're doing this incredible thing.
35:10And so we need people to become monthly donors.
35:13We need people to share this.
35:15A lot of times I'll post where I'll be,
35:16I'll be in the fire in the Amazon where ecosystem is being destroyed,
35:21where animals are being burned and some people can't donate fine.
35:25Well,
35:25you certainly can tap like and share it.
35:27And then to 10 of your friends and maybe one of those people will go,
35:31you know what?
35:31This is a cause I care about.
35:33And because I can see where my dollars are going and that there's an end goal that in the next
35:38few years,
35:38we're going to make a national park and then we're going to protect this incredible jewel.
35:42So we need people to spread the word.
35:44We need people to become donors.
35:46We're just trying to let the world know that we have this opportunity to protect this incredibly
35:50crucial part of the Amazon and that that window is going to vanish in the next few years if we
35:55don't succeed.
35:56But right now we're in a place where we actually can succeed.
36:00And then aside from donating and spreading the word,
36:02people can come down.
36:03We built the tallest tree house in the world so that we could share this with everyone.
36:07And we have local guides.
36:08And a lot of the people that are in the book are the people you'll meet when you show up.
36:12And so people that used to be loggers and gold miners are now like chefs and boat drivers and carpenters
36:17and guides.
36:18And it's just become amazing.
36:20Telling everyone, I read this book and it is, it's an adventure.
36:26I mean, if you love nature, if you love arrows flying by, if you like anaconda piggyback riding,
36:34like it's all in there.
36:35So it's a great, great read and such a great cause.
36:40And so on behalf of people that breathe air, thank you.
36:44Appreciate that, Dan.
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