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00:04Good evening from Minneapolis, Minnesota. I'm Chris Hayes, and I am here tonight on Nicolette
00:10Avenue. That's the site of the brutal killing of a United States citizen by his own government.
00:16And we're here on Nicolette Avenue, just a few hundred feet from a group of mourners who were
00:21just singing hymns. We're here outside in the brutal cold, and it's brutal because history
00:27is being made here in Minnesota. It's being made by the people who live here and who refuse day by
00:32day to give in or to give up. In the aftermath of that shooting that just happened over my shoulder,
00:38it's become clear in the last few days that something, something is shifting, not just here
00:42in Minnesota, but across the country. And when the record of this era is written down, what has
00:47happened here is likely to play some decisive role in what kind of country we have on the other side
00:54of all this. What happened here in Minneapolis over the last few weeks, as is so often the case
01:00in history, is tragic. A masked man took the life of a 37-year-old mother of three and poet,
01:07Renee Good. She was shot to death at point-blank range by an agent of her own government. And then
01:14this weekend took the life of Alex Preddy, also 37, an ICU nurse who was shot repeatedly by agents of
01:22his own government in the back as he was prone on the ground. Good and Preddy knew there was risk
01:29in what they were doing. They knew it. I mean, certainly Alex Preddy did two weeks after Renee
01:34Good was shot, but they did it anyway, and they died protecting their neighbors.
01:40I think their names are going to be in the ledger of this country's most elemental struggles decades
01:46from now. People will know their names. They will be known and celebrated. There will be memorials
01:50to them, and they will rightly be remembered as martyred to our union. But what's remarkable is
01:57that they are just two out of hundreds, thousands, maybe even tens of thousands of ordinary people
02:01who have mobilized in this moment, clear-eyed about the risks, which could not be clearer,
02:08to stand shoulder and shoulder with their neighbors and protect them against the predations
02:12of their own government, which is supposed to protect them.
02:17It is clear, just in the day that I've been here, these are not just protests. This is a standoff.
02:22And here's the thing. Improbably, it seems to be working. The Trump administration is desperately
02:29backpedaling as the backlash against what we have seen on these streets grows far beyond this city
02:34and cable news channels. The border patrol commander in charge, Greg Bovino, is now out. He's headed home
02:41to California along with many of his agents. A new border czar has arrived, Tom Homan, who's here now.
02:46Apparently, the grown-up sent in by Trump, who said the words tonight,
02:50we're going to de-escalate a little bit.
02:54You know, Bovino's very good, but he's a pretty out-there kind of a guy. And in some cases,
02:59that's good. Maybe it wasn't good here. And that's all working out. You know,
03:03we have Tom Homan there now. We put him in there. He's great. And they met with the governor,
03:07the mayor, everybody else. And we're going to de-escalate a little bit.
03:13We're going to de-escalate a little bit.
03:17Does it mean anything? Is it a start?
03:19We hope it's a start. There's more to go. Democrats and even Republicans now on Capitol Hill
03:24are calling for investigations into DHS and to ICE and to the shooting of Alex Freddie,
03:30as Democrats consider a partial government shutdown to block ICE funding. House Minority Leader
03:36Hakeem Jeffries told MSNOW today that Secretary of Homeland Security Kristi Noem needs to be fired
03:41or be impeached.
03:44House Democrats have called for her to be fired immediately. And in the event that she is not
03:52terminated, we are prepared to initiate impeachment proceedings against her in the House of
03:58Representatives.
04:00Now, that's Hakeem Jeffries. But here's Republican Senator Tom Tillis tonight. Quote,
04:06I think what she's done in Minnesota should be disqualified. She should be out of a job.
04:10She needs to go. Again, all of this is happening because ordinary people have chosen to do something
04:19extraordinary. And ordinary people doing the extraordinary is the alchemy of democracy.
04:27It all comes down to that, right? The fate of the nation depends on it.
04:31And they're still standing up. There has been no break. We rode around today
04:34with some folks who were out looking for ICE. We're going to bring you that later.
04:38All of them absolutely crystal clear about the continuing danger.
04:43This afternoon, the Senator Reverend Raphael Warnock of Georgia, senator, also senior pastor
04:48at the Atlanta church once led by Martin Luther King Jr., joined local faith leaders for a vigil
04:53right here at this site where Alex Preddy was killed. He spoke exclusively about this historic
04:58moment with MSNOW's Alex Tabbitt. You've mentioned that this is a moral moment.
05:06Obviously, to many people, we're at a key juncture right now. Is the country in a moral crisis?
05:12Oh, absolutely. You look at that tape of Mr. Preddy being assaulted along with others and then murdered
05:24in broad daylight. We did not only witness the killing of a man. We are witnessing the spiraling
05:32spiritual death of a nation. And it's the people who will have to stand up and redeem the soul of
05:37our country.
05:39As a senior pastor of the Ebenezer Church, can you talk to me about what role faith leaders have
05:47in the civil rights movement, not just historically, but right now?
05:51Yeah. Well, in the case of the movement and in Minneapolis this moment, as you see these faith leaders
05:58of various faith traditions and those who claim no faith tradition at all, but are people of conscience
06:04standing up, it is literally soul force meeting brute force. I think of John Lewis, who I was honored to
06:14serve
06:14as pastor, crossing the Edmund Pettus Bridge with brute force under the color of law on the other
06:20side of that bridge. But he kept marching. And not only did he cross a bridge, he built the bridge
06:26into a new America. And every generation, I think, has a moment like that. And this is our moment.
06:34As both a faith leader and an elected, just why is it so important for you to be right here
06:42today?
06:46Well, in a real sense, this is holy ground. Consecrated by blood spilled here.
06:57The cost is high. And so I had to be here to stand in the very place where this tragedy
07:08unfurled,
07:10not only for Alex Preddy, but for Renee Good, for George Floyd.
07:22I think we're at a defining moment for our country as we look at those tragedies.
07:28And as we look at George Floyd on the one hand, Alex Preddy, Renee Good on the other,
07:35we need a multiracial coalition of conscience that's larger than politics.
07:39I think the partisan
07:42language of politics
07:44is too puny vocabulary
07:46for what's facing us in this moment.
07:49There is a political exercise that we engage in.
07:52And I'm going later today to vote.
07:55But this this is a moral moment.
07:58The country's in a spiritual crisis.
08:00But I haven't lost hope.
08:01But part of what I refuse to do is to give in to those who are trying to flood the
08:06zone
08:08and weaponize despair.
08:11I said to the faith leaders gathered earlier today
08:15that the scripture reminds us that the light shines in the darkness
08:20and the darkness overcometh it not.
08:22There is no question it's dark in America right now.
08:24Donald Trump has unleashed evil on our streets.
08:28But the light penetrates the darkness
08:30and it falls on all of us
08:33to be that light.
08:37Elliot Payne is the president of the Minneapolis City Council.
08:40He has been out and about almost nonstop over the last month.
08:43He joins me now.
08:44It's good to have you here.
08:45Thanks for being here, Chris.
08:46You know, I think the big question today, right?
08:48So Tom Homan came, Bovino left,
08:51meeting with Waltz, meeting with Mayor Jacob Frye,
08:54statements put out.
08:56The president saying we're going to de-escalate a bit.
08:59The big question is like, is this a feint?
09:02Is it real?
09:02Like, from your perspective, watching this,
09:05what is your read on this?
09:07The message we've been sharing with our community
09:09is that we need to hold strong.
09:11I don't believe a word that comes out of this administration,
09:15whether that is their telling of Renee Goodes' murder,
09:21being that she was trying to ram the agent,
09:23or that Alex Pruddy was brandishing a weapon.
09:28Nothing that they say can be believed,
09:30and so we need to continue being out on the streets
09:32every single day.
09:33That's evidenced by just this morning.
09:35We had two apprehensions in my ward.
09:37Today by DHS officials.
09:39By DHS officials.
09:40The Ecuadorian consulate,
09:41they tried to enter the consulate today.
09:44They were held back by...
09:45Wait a second.
09:45DHS tried to enter the consulate?
09:47The Ecuadorian consulate on Central Avenue in Minneapolis.
09:50That happened today.
09:51And we heard reports of somebody getting assaulted by DHS.
09:55So I think this might be a head fake because they may be shifting their tactics,
10:01but they have not shifted their policy.
10:03And as long as their policy is one of retribution against the city of Minneapolis,
10:07I think we all have to hold strong.
10:11What would be the sign to you, right, of that it had shifted?
10:16I mean, like, to compare to Chicago, it's not that ICE isn't in Chicago,
10:20it isn't that people are facing issues, but there really was a palpable difference.
10:23A number of agents, the kind of thing they were doing,
10:26the amount of, you know, tear gas they were using,
10:28it really did change when they, quote,
10:30left and ended Operation Manway.
10:32It's like, what are you trying...
10:33What do you want to see happen?
10:34I want to see justice.
10:36I want to see those agents that killed our residents held to account.
10:40I want to see indictments.
10:42I don't want to just see Kristi Noem impeached.
10:45I think she should be arrested and indicted.
10:47I mean, the level of profound injustice that's happened in our city is...
10:52I don't have words for it.
10:54And I think that anything less than every one of these people held to account is unacceptable.
11:02And I think that our city needs to see that.
11:04I think our country needs to see that.
11:07A statistic that I've been telling people that I've been watching it just utterly blow their minds
11:13is that, as far as I know, as of today,
11:15there have been three homicides, killings in your city of Minneapolis.
11:21One of them was crime, citizen to citizen, whatever.
11:25Two of them were by DHS federal agents.
11:29Yeah, yeah.
11:29I mean, that is correct, right?
11:30This is correct.
11:31Our federal government is the most dangerous force in our city as of today.
11:37And this is a city that, I mean, I know that you got into politics around 2020
11:42in the aftermath of George Floyd's murder here.
11:46That has worked very hard, right?
11:49I mean, extremely hard.
11:50The police department, the community, the amount of social infrastructure that's been built up
11:54to be a place that is different and better than the place that it was five years ago.
11:59Like, do you feel like if A has made progress and what has this, for lack of a better word,
12:04invasion by the federal government done to your city?
12:07You know, we've been at the forefront of police reform and public safety transformation
12:13since the murder of George Floyd.
12:15Actually, since before the murder of George Floyd.
12:16I actually got started running for office because I was working at the city helping to launch a dedicated
12:22on our mental health responder program.
12:24And that has been successfully launched.
12:26And it is available 24-7 in every corner of our city, dispatched via 911.
12:32This is something that many other cities are working towards, but we are out in front of that.
12:38We've made great strides in implementing our state consent decree.
12:42The Trump administration withdrew the federal consent decree, but we are still committed to implementing those provisions.
12:47And I've always been very frustrated with the pace of change.
12:51But this contrast of seeing how reckless and unprofessional the federal government is
12:56actually is putting some of our police reform work into a different light.
13:01I mean, my interactions with MPD, and now it's different, I'm an elected official,
13:05are so different than compared to literally getting assaulted by the federal government when I was out on the street.
13:12Yeah, I mean, I have now talked to people today, multiple people who have been, they would characterize as assaulted
13:19by federal agents.
13:21I talked to someone who's today who has had, you know, has been out sort of watching ICE and says,
13:26who told me that in all but two instances, they used chemical, some sort of chemical.
13:31Like, that was kind of almost the MO.
13:33That was how they broke up in interaction.
13:35Yeah.
13:36You've been shoved on camera.
13:38I mean, have you ever encountered anything like this?
13:43Never in my life.
13:45Never in my life.
13:45I mean, and it's not just the brutality of it, it's the scale of it.
13:50And I mean, especially that first week after Renee Good was killed, I mean, every 10 minutes,
13:56you would see another vehicle of agents driving down the streets, jumping out at random people, asking for papers.
14:04And the only thing that has been giving me a little bit of life through this is just how much
14:09of our community is showing up,
14:10how many people jump out and blow whistles, how many are following blowing horns,
14:14and then just the level of infrastructure that we've built in our city for community,
14:18whether it's food drives or school transportation.
14:22I mean, talk a little bit more about that.
14:24We're going to get into it in a bit.
14:25But just the scale of, I mean, I think here's why we're here, right?
14:28The country is looking here.
14:30I mean, people are really messed up by what's happening.
14:35I mean, viscerally, like in tears and in mourning, and they feel incredibly torn up by what's happening.
14:40I feel that way.
14:40I mean, I think everyone does.
14:42And they're looking to Minnesota because it feels like it's both so tragic,
14:45but there's something that you are doing here that feels like the antidote to everything that they are doing.
14:52We were on the front cover of the New York Times for Defund the Police.
14:56It was one of the most contentious eras in our politics here in the city of Minneapolis.
15:01And that was the year that I was running for office in 2021.
15:05And there was a ballot question around the future of our police department.
15:09And it was characterized as abolishing police.
15:11And that's not remotely what that ballot question did.
15:15It would have expanded the level of safety services that we would have to offer in conjunction with police.
15:20And one of the big tenants that we were advocating for as people who supported that ballot measure was the
15:26idea of we keep us safe.
15:28And I think that was received with a lot of backlash around the fear mongering of what would we do
15:34without police.
15:35And now what we're seeing is we keep us safe.
15:39It's moms, dads, everybody is throwing in to look out for each other, keep watch on the neighborhood, keep each
15:47other fed, and keep each other housed.
15:49And this is actually an embodiment of that vision of we keep us safe.
15:53And it's something that's actually extremely empowering.
15:56L.A. Payne City Council President.
15:57It's a great honor to have you here.
15:59Thank you so much.
15:59Thank you for having me.
16:00Braving the cold, which is not braving for you.
16:02Thank you very much.
16:04Still to come, my ride along with one of the many ice watchers in Minneapolis.
16:08That's next.
16:09Don't go anywhere.
16:15Since federal immigration agents began surging into Minneapolis, regular citizens have taken upon themselves, like in other cities, to form
16:22groups they're calling ice watchers.
16:24And that keep tabs on known and suspected DHS vehicles, and then film and record encounters, just as Alex Freddie
16:31was doing when he was killed by border patrol agents right here on Saturday.
16:36Today, I got the chance to ride along with ice watch volunteers on the patrol and learn about what they
16:40face when they encounter federal agents.
16:42Now, we're not going to show their faces to protect their identities.
16:45Our drivers are two individuals who came out with us this afternoon.
16:50They told us what they've seen over the past three months.
16:54What have your interactions been like when you have been around ice or CBP grabbing people or out?
17:04Yeah, it's pretty mixed.
17:09It can often be a really volatile, high-tension experience.
17:17And it just kind of depends.
17:22Matchstick, if you want to jump in at any point, let me know.
17:25But we've seen them, like, a common move is wrapping their arms around people's necks and, like, throwing them to
17:32the ground from the back.
17:34Sometimes they're just, like, back up, you know.
17:36You're saying doing that to observers?
17:37To observers, yeah.
17:39And sometimes they'll yell at you, back up.
17:41Yeah, they're relatively forceful, even if they're not, like, physically forceful.
17:48Yeah.
17:49But there's also been times where they couldn't care less about if we're there and aren't talking to us or
17:58just ignoring us.
18:01That's interesting.
18:02Yeah, it depends on the number of observers, I think.
18:05Yeah.
18:06I also think that they tend to be more amped up and a little bit more aggressive and care about
18:13our presence or both of them who was there.
18:15Oh, that's interesting.
18:16Meaning when he is, like, physically present with them or just, like, yeah.
18:24So you have experienced that?
18:27Yeah.
18:27Yeah.
18:28They are kind of taunting, you know?
18:31Like, they'll make fun of people's clothes.
18:33Have you personally encountered either of you, like, them deploying any kind of agent?
18:40Yeah.
18:41Like, tear gas?
18:41Almost every time.
18:42Really?
18:43There's only been one time.
18:44Almost every time?
18:44Almost every time.
18:45Yeah, absolutely.
18:46There's only, there's, like, tear gas and pepper spray?
18:50Yeah.
18:52So it's like a kind of a go-to move.
18:55I think there's only, there's been maybe one or two responses I've been to where they didn't deploy it.
19:00One was because I was the only observer on the scene watching an abduction.
19:05And I was whistling and recording.
19:09And it was like, you know, a barking dog.
19:13It was, like, not, it just didn't phase them.
19:15Right.
19:17And then they got in the car and went, and I could, there was nothing I could do.
19:22And then the other one was, there weren't very many observers.
19:29There were probably 10 to 15 of us.
19:34And they were asking us to back up.
19:38They were setting a perimeter for us.
19:40And then some of the observers were insulting the agents and telling them to get out and stuff.
19:50And it wasn't until they were driving away, one of the agents in the backseat of a car, like, he
19:57didn't throw it, but he had a canister.
19:59And he did this.
20:00He was almost untucked to us at all the whole time he was there.
20:04And then he just, like, tried to freak us out or psych us out or something.
20:07Those are the only two times I've not seen.
20:10Every other time they have deployed.
20:12In my, for what I've responded to, yes.
20:15That doesn't mean it's happening every single time.
20:17Right, but no, but it's your own personal experience.
20:19In my own personal experience, it's, you can, if there's more than 15 to 20 observers, you can almost guarantee
20:28it.
20:29In my, in my humble experience.
20:31I think Bivino's leaving.
20:33Yeah, I think he left this morning.
20:34And there's, like, some rally, I think, tonight.
20:37And he, I mean, he definitely, like, you know, he was fired.
20:44I mean, he got fired.
20:45He got fired.
20:46I mean, basically is what happened.
20:48He might retire.
20:50Right, yes.
20:50They've gone to great lengths to, like, obscure the fact that, like, he got canned.
20:55Yeah, totally.
20:56And I wonder if that, does that feel like a victory?
20:59There, he'll just, he's just another guy full of spot.
21:02Yeah.
21:02I don't, I don't know.
21:04I mean, Bivino was gross, but, like.
21:06He's coming in, I think, which, we were doing some research on him at work the other day, and he
21:11seems, I mean, he's still with ice.
21:15Yeah.
21:15So I can't say that I like him, but he does seem, like, at least more measured.
21:19And I think I mentioned before, too, that, like, the agents on the ground with Bivino are often very much
21:26more aggressive and agitated.
21:29Yeah, that's a really interesting observation.
21:31I'm hoping that, at least if hominism, they'll actually follow some of the wounds.
21:39Yeah.
21:39Maybe, possibly.
21:41Yeah.
21:42Yeah.
21:42I don't have a lot of hope for that myself.
21:44I feel like it's not, it's not a celebration until they're all the way gone.
21:49Yeah.
21:49Yeah.
21:50Caring is political right now.
22:13Mm-hmm.
22:14What's happening around them and care about the people it's impacting.
22:18They need a hard, nervous system reset.
22:20To go back to preschool, to learn just social-emotional skills, yeah.
22:27I do feel like very few people learned the golden rule in kindergarten.
22:32Treat others the way you want to be treated.
22:36Andrew Falstrom is one of those ice watchers and a lead organizer of Defend the 612, the rapid response group,
22:43which brings together volunteers in Minneapolis to patrol, protect, and improve their community during this period.
22:47And he joins me now.
22:48It's good to have you here.
22:50You know, one of the things I've been struck with just talking to people is just the scale of what's
22:54going on here.
22:54These are, this is all just, like, average, regular folks, right?
22:59I mean, these are not paid, for instance, as the president likes to say.
23:03Everyone has a day job.
23:05Everyone has a family.
23:06Everyone is trying to take care of their kids.
23:08And everyone is out here on the streets day after day.
23:10Can you give me a sense of the scale?
23:12I read an interview where you talked about early back in December, there being, like, a training for some of
23:17this stuff,
23:17for, like, constitutional observers.
23:20And you have 300, 500 people.
23:23Like, how many people are we talking about here?
23:25There have been so many organizations training people to come out,
23:28and there have been so many different types of trainings.
23:31My guess would be at least 100,000 people have been trained in the Twin Cities in different kinds of
23:36observation.
23:37How many?
23:38Rapid response, showing up.
23:39I have never been more proud of the people of Minneapolis, because in one voice, everyone has come out to
23:46do the same thing on the streets.
23:48What are, there is this tremendous social infrastructure that has been built up.
23:52I was seeing a little bit of today, and just, like, dispatch and, you know, group chats and people, you
23:59know, different turf for patrols.
24:01Like, how did this all get made?
24:05Minneapolis is a city with a lot of talented people.
24:08I mean, the way that we can come together to organize the PTA at a school, the same people are
24:14coming out to put that level forward.
24:15Literally the same people.
24:16Just to be clear.
24:17People are running dispatches, are dispatching people to emergencies.
24:22They're running, frankly, the equivalent of an underground railroad across the city of Minneapolis and beyond to protect our neighbors
24:29and make sure that they have food, they have rides, they can get to medical appointments.
24:34Yeah, going home to home.
24:38There is no part of this that's not impressive.
24:41And in Minneapolis, we had the experience of the George Floyd uprising of 2020.
24:46And so those systems of care that came together in that time persisted and were able to just be amplified
24:53probably 50 times more in this time.
24:56When I was riding around today, I was talking to those folks, and I talked to a few other people
24:59that I've been here that I think this is viewed maybe outside here,
25:04and particularly on the right, as, like, in this very partisan lens.
25:06It's like, well, of course, they're anti-Trumpers, and they're libs, and it's a blue city, so they don't like
25:11Donald Trump.
25:12And I've just been struck that, like, it seems to me that people's motivation for doing this kind of work,
25:17which we have seen is physically risky, right,
25:21is not coming from the place of, I hate Donald Trump.
25:25It's coming from something else.
25:26How would you describe what is bringing people to this work?
25:30I would say, like, any community anywhere across the U.S. and across the world, no one accepts abductions of
25:37their children from schools, from daycare centers, from outside their home.
25:41There is no one who is going to look at what has been happening on the streets of Minneapolis and
25:46not be completely horrified at the absolute sickness of it.
25:50And so what you see is people who received, veterans who received care from Alex at the Veterans Administration Hospital
25:57coming out and saying in one voice, this is not okay.
26:00What you see is our suburban friends from around the belt of Minneapolis coming in to do patrol and to
26:08stand outside schools to protect children.
26:10There is the resonance in the city of Minneapolis, across the Twin Cities and all of Minnesota.
26:16I have never seen anything like this.
26:18I keep hearing the word neighbor from people, like, as the elemental unit of what they are trying to do.
26:28I've heard many people say, I'm looking out for my neighbors.
26:30I'm trying to protect my neighbors.
26:31I want my neighbors to thrive.
26:33And I just found it very moving and profound that, like, that is kind of the elemental building block of
26:41a democracy, is neighbor.
26:42And it seems like people are really feeling that now.
26:45Yeah, and it's where we practice.
26:47I mean, the people who can respond within minutes are the people who are in whistle distance from your home
26:53or from wherever you are or can hear you honking.
26:55And we have been each other's first line of response.
27:00We have been the rapid responders.
27:02And so you hear a whistle in my neighborhood.
27:04Every single door on the block, people come out.
27:07People look.
27:08There's cars on the street looking.
27:11The block-by-block organizing has been absolutely stunning.
27:16I asked this earlier today when I was riding around with those few folks.
27:20There's real risk here.
27:22I mean, it's horrific to have seen and to contemplate.
27:26Like, are people scared?
27:29Are they, like, do you hear from people at trainings or get-togethers after Renee Good was shot and killed
27:36or Alex Petty was shot and killed?
27:37Like, I'm sorry, I can't come in today.
27:40I live near Renee Good and where she was assassinated.
27:45What I saw the day after was the amount of people coming out doubled.
27:50What I see is it's absolutely risky.
27:53They will shoot my neighbor Renee in the face.
27:56They will assassinate Alex on the streets of Minneapolis.
27:59And there is no way that any of us can go to bed at night knowing that we did not
28:05do everything in our power to carry on Renee's work, to carry on Alex's work.
28:10And the people of Minneapolis can sleep soundly because we have shown up day after day for eight weeks to
28:16protect each other and to protect our neighbors.
28:19Can you outlast them?
28:21I don't see any signs of slowing.
28:24What I see is more and more people stepping into their courage and moving together with one voice, whether it's
28:30looking at the hotels that are housing these abductors, looking at the rental companies like Enterprise that are renting them
28:37cars.
28:38The restaurants are refusing to serve them and opening their doors and giving free food to everyone on the block.
28:45Like, Minneapolis is not tired.
28:47Minneapolis is out here in 17-degree weather day after day, and things are just heating up.
28:53All right, Andrew, thank you very much.
28:55Appreciate it.
28:55Good to be here.
28:56Be safe.
28:58Up next, the loud demands for an actual investigation of the killing of Alex Freddie.
29:03The latest on that fight.
29:04We've got some new reporting.
29:05Don't go anywhere.
29:10MS Now is reporting tonight.
29:12The Trump Department of Justice will not conduct a civil rights investigation into the shooting of Alex Freddie.
29:18Justices declined to investigate the shooting of Renee earlier this month.
29:21Both Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey and Minnesota Governor Tim Walz have demanded impartial investigations in the shootings by federal agents.
29:29Governor Walz says he reiterated that demand to Trump's so-called border czar, Tom Holman, when he met with him.
29:35Today, David Noriega has been all over this story for MS Now.
29:39David, good to have you here.
29:40So, first of all, is there any investigation happening after the shooting death of someone on videotape?
29:48There is an investigation, but it's not the type of investigation that should be happening.
29:52So, if we can sort of establish what is normally supposed to happen in a situation like this, the federal
29:57agent shoots and kills somebody on the streets of an American city.
30:00There is usually, well, first of all, the agents or officers involved are put on administrative leave, standard operating procedure
30:07in any police department in the country.
30:08Every law enforcement shooting that I've ever covered, something like that.
30:11A hundred percent.
30:11Not just to allow the investigation to proceed, but also for the well-being of the officers and agents, et
30:15cetera.
30:16That has not happened here.
30:18Greg Bovino said in a press conference two days ago that the agents involved in this are still working, have
30:21not been put on administrative leave.
30:23So, just to start there.
30:24Secondly, there's normally an independent investigation conducted jointly by the FBI and by local and state authorities, which in this
30:31case would be the BCA, the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension.
30:33That's the Minnesota State Police.
30:35That is not what's happening.
30:36In fact, they've been locked out, as far as we can tell.
30:39Exactly.
30:39And I'll get to that.
30:40Instead, what's happening is that DHS is investigating itself.
30:44And specifically, an arm of ICE, a part of ICE, known as HSI, Homeland Security Investigations, is running lead on
30:51this investigation.
30:53HSI is the main investigative branch of ICE.
30:55They typically investigate cross-border crimes like gun trafficking, human trafficking, that kind of thing.
31:00A couple of high-level former DHS officials have told me that HSI has never done this before.
31:05This is unheard of.
31:06They do not have the capacity to investigate officer-involved shootings, use-of-force incidents.
31:10It's simply not what they do.
31:12So, this is radically, you know, flies in the face of what should be happening.
31:17You mentioned that local authorities have been frozen out.
31:20The day the shooting happened back there, BCA personnel, state police personnel, showed up with a warrant signed by a
31:26state judge granting them access to the potential crime scene so that they could take statements from witnesses, recover evidence
31:32like shell casings, state photos, normal investigation stuff.
31:35Federal agents there physically blocked them from reaching the crime scene, flagrantly ignoring a warrant signed by a state judge
31:43with local officials have told me that suggests that the federal government in this instance believes they're not beholden to
31:47state law, which is obviously not the case.
31:50And I heard from the county attorney today, the local prosecutor, who would be the person in charge, who would
31:55be responsible for potentially bringing charges against these agents, that BCA still has not been given access to any of
32:01the evidence in the case.
32:02The body cam footage, they haven't been able to interview the agents, they haven't seen the firearm or any of
32:06the physical evidence in the case.
32:07They are still trying to do an investigation to the best of their ability in spite of that obstruction from
32:12the federal government.
32:13They've actually been, I saw them on the scene a couple days ago, taking photos of surveillance cameras, talking to
32:17people to see if there were witnesses.
32:19They're trying to do their best.
32:20The county attorney told me that, you know, if that investigation with the evidence they have available points towards the
32:26possibility of charges, she has the authority to charge them.
32:28But what this means, just to remind people, Border Patrol agents shot and killed a man back there.
32:33We don't know who they were because they were masked and they haven't identified them.
32:36And those people who are standing there, you and me, everyone else, there is no indication that there will be
32:40any kind of transparency or accountability in this shooting.
32:44I mean, it's very striking to me.
32:45In the case of Rene Goode, the only reason I think that the officer involved, Jonathan Ross, was revealed was
32:51because they gave biographical details in the pursuit of sort of framing things as charitably as possible.
33:00Right.
33:00That he had been dragged in a car and that sort of tipped off.
33:04But in this case, it's very striking to me that we don't, I mean, you know, I understand that there
33:08are security concerns and all that, but it's a democracy.
33:12I mean, those are federal employees.
33:15Like, does anyone on Capitol Hill know who these officers are?
33:19Does anyone know?
33:19No, nobody knows.
33:21The Border Patrol knows, you know, the agency that employs them presumably knows.
33:25Nothing, no one outside of them.
33:26Nobody in the public knows.
33:27There's no state officials, no local officials, nobody knows.
33:29And honestly, this goes to one of the most salient aspects of this change in tactics, which is the fact
33:35that these guys are masked.
33:36They don't identify themselves.
33:37What Bovino says, what Tom Holman says is that that's for their own security, that they get doxed, et cetera.
33:42But what it allows for is this complete lack of accountability and transparency in these operations.
33:48I mean, there's a reason that the phrase secret police has a certain kind of valence to it and certain
33:53connotations that are unscathed.
33:54Well, David Noriak, you've been doing great reporting on this.
33:56Thank you so much for joining us.
33:58Coming up, Minneapolis waves bye-bye to Greg Bovino.
34:02That's next.
34:09We are back in Minneapolis, and even in the 45 minutes that we've been out here in the sub-zero
34:14temperatures on Nicollet Street, there has been developments on a number of stories we've been covering.
34:19Earlier in the hour, we had City Council President Elliott Payne standing right here, and he mentioned something that seemed
34:25not even believable to me,
34:27that ICE agents attempted to enter the Ecuadorian consulate in Minneapolis.
34:32That country's foreign ministry is now confirming that story.
34:36We will work to find out more.
34:38New York Times is reporting that a federal judge is blocking the deportation of Liam Ramos, that, of course, the
34:43five-year-old, and the deportation of his father.
34:46At a third development, Congresswoman Ilhan Omar was at a town hall tonight just across town where she was accosted
34:53by a man in the audience.
34:54She was sprayed with a liquid.
34:56He shouted something at her.
34:58We understand she's okay, according to Mayor Jacob Frye.
35:01Joining me now, MSNOW Senior Political.
35:04Let's take a listen.
35:07The U.S. Secretary Kristi Noem must resign.
35:12Yes.
35:12Yes.
35:16Oh, my God.
35:19Oh, my God.
35:20Oh, my God.
35:24Oh, my God.
35:27He sprays something on her.
35:28He sprays something.
35:29He sprays something.
35:30And it smells terrible.
35:32Oh, my God.
35:35Joining me now, MSNOW Senior Political Analyst Alex Wagner, also the host of Runaway Country Podcast.
35:41That's a very, very scary moment that we just saw in that town hall.
35:46She appears to be fine.
35:48Yeah.
35:48But there's just something, given everything that's happened over the last few weeks.
35:52Given where we're standing.
35:53Given where we're standing.
35:54In the juxtaposition.
35:55That moment of someone coming at.
35:58Yeah, I think it's at a moment where people, especially on the outside of Minneapolis, are trying to calibrate how
36:05they feel about the moment, right?
36:07On one level, the incredible citizen resistance to ICE and the tactics of MAGA world in terms of marginalizing and
36:16terrorizing and punishing black and brown people in this country.
36:20That has been extraordinary.
36:22And it has resulted in certain gains, like the president of the United States may be vaguely acknowledging that it's
36:27not good to be doing this.
36:29We're going to deescalate a little bit.
36:30Whatever that, but the truth is, the situation on the ground remains dire.
36:34That's an elected representative from this state being accosted at best, maybe a failed attack at worst, in a moment
36:44when deescalation is the order of the day.
36:46You know, the fear that is in people's hearts and minds is very real and is not abating anytime soon,
36:53especially when you see stuff like that.
36:54I think the reason that people have been looking to this place with a lot of hope is because whatever
37:00else is happening, the White House is on tilt.
37:03Yeah.
37:03Right?
37:03I mean, they are on tilt.
37:05Totally.
37:05Fully today, you have, you've got, they've sent in a home.
37:09Bovino's going home.
37:10You've got reporting that Kristi Noem thinks that she's been thrown under the bus by Stephen Miller, Stephen Miller's wife
37:15on Twitter, posting the parts of the article that defends Stephen Miller.
37:19Like, there are knives out for each other, and I think the only thing that feels to me hopeful, because
37:27the political fight doesn't matter, is that they have projected that no, nothing can get to them for so long.
37:34Exactly.
37:34And that they are above anything.
37:36Exactly.
37:36And they don't care if you get mad, and they don't care if you're whining.
37:39It matters now.
37:40Like, it matters.
37:42Every act of resistance, every protest, every video, all of it is having the cumulative effect that it should, which
37:50is, it is stirring people in Washington into action, and it is making the White House slightly afraid of its
37:57own brutalizing tactics.
37:59Even these, even these things we used to see that were, like, the scripts of how a scandal would play
38:05out, that were completely absent in the first year.
38:07Yeah.
38:08They would do things, and you'd look around and be like, uh, no one's going to call for an investigation
38:11here?
38:12Yeah.
38:12Like, of your crypto scheme or whatever?
38:14Now it's like, oh, okay, some Republican, like, again, it's not the biggest thing.
38:19Just like the Republican Center saying there has to be an investigation.
38:22And we're talking, like, red state Republican Center.
38:24I mean, it's the bare minimum.
38:25I'm not trying to, like, say how great it is.
38:28We're not going to do find a gloss on it.
38:29Right.
38:29But the fact is, I mean, and I, look, I think it's, I don't think we should look at this
38:33in a vacuum.
38:34First of all, I do think the Democrats in Congress shutting down the government over health care and saying this
38:39is a fight worth having and doing it for 43 days was planting a flag in the ground and saying,
38:43we are willing to do this.
38:45We are willing to walk the walk on principle.
38:47Now, it didn't, and at the same time, Republicans have proven completely incapable, impotent in terms of actually lowering health
38:55care costs and dealing with the central problem of this administration, which is affordability.
38:59But the fact that at least congressional Democrats are willing to do some serious stuff on principle matters in the
39:05fight ahead on ICE funding and DHS, right?
39:07It has set the table for that.
39:09That's a great point.
39:09And the fact that you have no kings rallies across the country, the fact that the citizenry is engaged, and
39:14the fact that people have not allowed MAGA to divide them, but have instead said, we are doubling down on
39:20inclusivity, we are doubling down on the sense of community that you've been trying to shatter for years, and we
39:26are going to do it to our own peril, at the risk of our own lives, is an incredible signal
39:31to the White House and to this administration that they will be held accountable.
39:35You're also seeing this thing that, again, used to be a part of politics, where people getting uneasy, right?
39:42Like Mike Lawler, who's like a frontline member, he writes his op-ed in the New York Times being like,
39:46this isn't looking so good.
39:47And Tom Tillis, and I saw the woman who's the head of Latinas for Trump in Florida today saying, this
39:52is going to cost us the midterms.
39:54Like, again, the big question is how much public opinion matters, how much civil resistance matters, how much organizing matters.
40:01They want to pretend that it doesn't matter at all.
40:04And what I think we're seeing is, like, it does matter.
40:08It still does matter.
40:10We're, I don't, we are feet away where someone who was trying to help his fellow citizens was murdered.
40:18And just literally trying to re-engage on the most basic human level.
40:23He was literally intervening on behalf of two people that were near him who were being shoved to the ground.
40:29This is, these are the stakes and these are the lengths to which people are willing to sacrifice their lives
40:35in the name, not of, of, of anything other than community.
40:38I mean, it is an extraordinary thing.
40:40There was this sense of this sort of stunned silence and paralysis that happened.
40:45A lot of people, a lot of good people, I think, kind of were like, I'm out after Trump got
40:48re-elected.
40:49Like, and there's just something that's happened in the consciousness of the country the last few days where it's just,
40:54like, people are like, I mean, everywhere, like, the Gulf Reddit.
40:59Like, you know what I mean?
40:59Like, Gulf TikTok is like.
41:00Like, cat video.
41:01Like, cat Instagram.
41:02Like, cat Instagram.
41:03Like, everyone is just like, I, this is not okay.
41:06Well, I think in part because it's not happening in some circumscribed areas of cities to some certain communities.
41:11It is in residential areas.
41:13It is in hospitals.
41:14It is in schools.
41:15It may not be your child that's getting deported, but it's someone in their classroom.
41:19Even if your child's school isn't affected by it, your child knows about it and is scared about what's going
41:23to happen to his or her friends.
41:24Everyone on the PTA WhatsApp is getting together every morning to go stand arm and arm out of school.
41:30Alex Wagner, it's great to have you here.
41:33Thanks for being here, buddy.
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