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00:06This is Tyra Take Two, Common Mark, Soft Sticks.
00:15What was the toughest moment for you while filming the show?
00:19Toughest moment, hmm.
00:25Tiffany, maybe?
00:26I'm thinking that. That was very tough for me.
00:29Yeah. Yeah.
00:34Somebody's back.
00:35Hey, I'm back.
00:37Last time I came here, I tried out.
00:39I didn't get any.
00:40It would have been a big change from hustling to be a glamour girl anyway.
00:45It's cool, you know, I'm used to failing.
00:48Somebody gotta fail, right?
00:49Tiffany, that girl, that girl was my heart.
00:52She didn't make it the first year because she got into a fight in a bar.
00:56But we've mentored her off camera and said,
00:59we feel like this show is gonna be amazing for you.
01:01Let's get you the help that you need.
01:02And our team did.
01:03I don't jump on people and throw glasses and stuff like that anymore.
01:07I'm just not like that anymore.
01:09Tiffany grabbed her problems by the reins.
01:11She got it together. She came back.
01:14That girl wants to change her life.
01:18I thought she was gonna win.
01:20But what happened later is the most discussed scene in the history of Top Model.
01:28So now it's time for your individual evaluations.
01:31The girls were tasked with reading a teleprompter.
01:36Christian Lacroix.
01:38Christian Lacroix.
01:39Christian Lacroix.
01:39Christina Lacroix.
01:41Filled with all these, you know, designer names, a lot of French names.
01:45I can't even know that word.
01:45None of you girls can read.
01:47Pretty much they were set up to fail.
01:50Hi, I'm Tiffany.
01:52It's Fashion Week in Paris.
01:54Technicolor is the name of the game.
01:58Can you, I can't do this.
01:59I just wanted to change this woman's life.
02:02I felt like she could have been a supermodel with a capital S.
02:07Tiffany, the other girls did not know these words.
02:10They goofed the words.
02:11Go through it.
02:12Just have fun with it.
02:13Use your personality.
02:14Be you.
02:16I don't know.
02:17If you don't do this, you're gonna go home.
02:19And I just saw all that going down the drain.
02:22I saw her just not believing in herself and just giving up.
02:26And not just giving up on this modeling competition.
02:29It's just a bit deeper.
02:32This is humiliating.
02:35I think she wants it, but she's so intimidated by it.
02:38She'd rather say goodbye to it before it says goodbye to her.
02:41There needs to be something that really gets the competition going again.
02:45They need a wake-up call.
02:47Later in that episode, Tyra does something that she hadn't done before.
02:53Both of you will pack your bags.
02:55She sent two girls home.
02:56Look at her for the heads.
02:59It's been all bad.
03:01Tyra really wanted people to take it seriously.
03:05Oh, girl, you gotta stop.
03:07She's feeling that Tiffany's mocking this.
03:09That struck a chord.
03:11If you guys stand in front of me, I just wanna say one more thing to you.
03:15Tiffany, I'm extremely disappointed in you.
03:18This is a joke to you.
03:19You've been through anger management.
03:21You've been through your grandmother getting her lights turned off to buy you a swimsuit for this competition.
03:25And you go over there and you joke and you laugh.
03:27Looks can be deceiving.
03:28I'm hurt.
03:29I am.
03:31But I'm sick of crying about stuff that I cannot change.
03:34I'm sick of being disappointed.
03:36I'm sick of all of it.
03:37I'm not.
03:38You're sick of being disappointed.
03:39Obviously, I am.
03:40No, you're not.
03:40If you were sick of being disappointed, you would stand up and you would take control of your destiny.
03:45Do you know that you had a possibility to win?
03:47Do you know that all of America is rooting for you?
03:51When I see this beautiful girl who made some mistakes in the season before and didn't make it,
03:56and then we, you know, worked with her to get her here.
03:59You come in here and look at that and say, I can't read that.
04:01You read ten times better than half of those girls over there.
04:04And then to see her, like, just kind of giving up, I just...
04:08You come in here with a defeatist attitude.
04:10I don't have a bad attitude.
04:11Maybe I am angry inside.
04:13I've been through stuff, so I'm angry.
04:15Yes, but this is not...
04:16This is not...
04:16Be quiet, Tiffany.
04:17Be quiet!
04:20I have never in my life yelled at a girl like this.
04:23When my mother yells at this, it's because she loves me.
04:26I was rooting for you.
04:27We were all rooting for you.
04:29How dare you?
04:31Tyra really scared all of us.
04:33Like, we literally jumped out of our seats.
04:35What is happening right now?
04:36It was definitely the most difficult moment on set I had ever experienced.
04:41It was ugly.
04:42Learn something from this!
04:44You roll in your eyes and you act like this because you've heard it all before.
04:47You don't know where the hell I come from.
04:49You have no idea what I've been through.
04:51But I'm not a victim.
04:52I grow from it and I learn.
04:54Take responsibility for yourself.
04:57When they were done shooting, production staff literally just, like, took Tyra off set.
05:03It was very scary.
05:05It was like, she went off.
05:07And Tyra never went off.
05:09Tyra must have really saw herself in that girl.
05:13I went too far.
05:15You know, I lost it.
05:17It was probably bigger than her.
05:19It was family, friends, society.
05:21Black girls.
05:22All the challenges that we have.
05:23So many people saying that we're not good enough.
05:25I think all that was in that moment.
05:28That's some black girl stuff that goes real deep inside of me.
05:31But I knew I went too far.
05:32I'm not finna break down for you and nobody else.
05:35You ain't didn't **** me, but bring me here and put me through hell these weeks.
05:38There was a lot more that was really said.
05:41And some of the things that were said were really not well-intentioned.
05:45I will probably never repeat the lines that were actually said in that room that day.
05:50All I know is the next week we had all the lawyers on set.
05:54In all of my interviews, I will always tell people,
05:57I feel like the reason that she yelled at me was because she loved me.
06:01That was bull.
06:01If she loved me, she wouldn't have showed it the way she showed it.
06:05If you love someone, you won't humiliate them.
06:10People have tried to make it something funny, but it really wasn't.
06:21Okay, so it is 12 midnight and we've already started getting the girls ready in hair and makeup.
06:27As I reached cycle eight, I kind of felt things really changing.
06:34We were supposed to be showing the behind the scenes of what the fashion world was.
06:39Helping change the industry.
06:42And I just wanted everyone to have their best possible shot.
06:46But the show had evolved in a way I'd never expected.
06:52There was this version of me on this show, which was me, but not really me.
06:58Today, we're going to do the most controversial shoot we've ever done on America's Next Top Model.
07:05Because Tyra would always reinforce, we need to keep it entertaining.
07:08We need to keep people watching.
07:10So it's like, how can you be entertaining?
07:13I need you to give me that kind of strung out look.
07:18Hey Michelle, it looks really good.
07:22Did you ever have a moment in which you went to Tyra or to Cannes and be like,
07:29I didn't like what you did to these girls.
07:32Just like, this scene was not cool.
07:36Of course, there were gobsmacked moments where you watch and you're like, oof.
07:42Okay, like, but it was certainly not my place to, you know, I would never tell them.
07:51I'm like, oh, you should have never.
07:53And that was slowly depleting me and kind of chipping away at my soul.
08:00So it was time to tell Tyra that I wanted to leave the show.
08:07Tyra and I weren't the traditional work relationship.
08:11And you work in such close proximity and traveling together.
08:15You know, it becomes, it's a, it becomes like a relationship.
08:19And I was afraid of saying the wrong thing.
08:23And I definitely did not want to make her upset.
08:28I tortured myself over the decision.
08:31It did not come lightly.
08:32I didn't discuss it with anyone, Miss J, like nobody, like knew.
08:38J Manuel, he gives everything to his chest.
08:43He's very secretive.
08:46Very, very, very, very secretive.
08:49Tyra had made a pact with me around cycle three or four.
08:53She said, when it comes to anything important, let's always promise each other we'll come to each other first.
08:58So I knew that I had to tell her first.
09:04So I sent her the email, just expressing the utter gratitude for this opportunity and to be able to help
09:13her realize this.
09:14But also, I was trying to kind of move on in my own life and career.
09:20And she didn't respond.
09:24It was probably the longest three days ever.
09:26And she ultimately wrote back just three words.
09:34I am disappointed.
09:37After that email exchange, all communication just stopped.
09:44It should have been the opportunity to have a heart-to-heart, but that did not happen.
09:48I took a one-week vacation in St. Lucia.
09:52And then reception came with an urgent note for my attorney.
09:58I called my attorney and he said, this is an ask coming through Business Affairs.
10:04They said, we just need a little more time.
10:07Can you just do one cycle for us? Just cycle nine.
10:10And then there was a warning that strikes the fear of God in you.
10:18You know, people talk about being blacklisted.
10:21Those words were not used, but I had suspected that that's what it would turn into.
10:27And then I didn't know who to talk to, because honestly, the person I would always talk to was Tyra.
10:38And then I tried to, I thought, I thought I could fix that.
10:44I just decided, I thought, you know, one season, you know, what could happen?
10:53Take off your blindfolds. This is your home for the next week.
10:58We had to do the casting episode. It was on the boat.
11:00I hadn't spoken to Tyra. I was extremely nervous. Oh, my God.
11:04So, you know, you get your microphone on and everything, and then we sit down.
11:08I was like, oh, thank God, I'm thinking a moment I can just talk to her.
11:12I'm like, oh, hey, Tyra. Like, hey, I just wanted to real quick.
11:19And that was the first time I really realized there was a real problem.
11:24She wouldn't speak with me.
11:26Is that right here? Oh, that is Tyra. Hey, girl.
11:30And it was clear I didn't know what to do, because I just sat there, and I just, the girl
11:36came in, and we talked.
11:37Come on, Tyra, I'm a guy. Okay, I'll just pop you.
11:39I guess I'll just sit here.
11:41Six, seven, eight.
11:43And then she leaned over. She put her arm around me.
11:47What do you think, Jenny? What do you think about her?
11:49She's, I love her.
11:51The bitchy bitch that I've seen, like, here.
11:53Uh-oh, who's the bitchy bitch? That's what we want to know.
11:59So, on camera, we learned to play, laugh, but it was just clear I was not allowed to speak with
12:07her outside of that.
12:09Which, after that first day, I thought, there is absolutely no way I'm going to survive this cycle.
12:17When we were shooting in China, I was tired, and I was scared.
12:22Do I remember inklings of there being some sort of issue here and there? I do, but I had no
12:28idea that it was that raw.
12:30I was still trying to process what was going on.
12:34I always thought that Jay, I wouldn't want to say anything insulting to Tyra.
12:40None of the other girls jump. Best shoe?
12:43That's her best shoe.
12:44Wow.
12:46I just, it was, it, it was, like, psychological torture. I, I, I just, I felt broken.
12:58Can we talk now about what happened with you and Jay?
13:03Uh, I prefer, I, yeah. I should call Jay. I don't want to do this here.
13:10Do you keep the day or something?
13:10Yeah, yeah, but he's a special man.
13:16At that point.
13:17Hey, good morning.
13:19My job had changed.
13:20I no longer was producing creative.
13:23The only thing I was responsible for producing per my contract is the final runway.
13:29I was now just on-camera talent.
13:34I showed up.
13:36Hey, girls, today's photo shoot is all about da-da-da-da-da.
13:40They tell you to stand here and say this, that's your job.
13:44And I started really paying attention to what was starting to happen behind the scenes.
13:52The hair I'm seeing under the-
13:54What ends up with the armpits, girl?
13:55I thought I was gonna get touched.
13:57Oh, my God.
13:57I'm really sorry. I'll go home and shit.
13:58You know how expensive retouching is?
14:00There were definite photos selected that we felt, we were like, wait, what?
14:05The other thing that really worries me is that kind of long drool coming off of your chin.
14:10That makes no sense.
14:12Ken and his team and Tyra, they knew what they were doing.
14:16That is where I started to learn the art of the storytelling.
14:20I would really hate for the judges to say, you know what?
14:23She's got the look, she takes pretty pictures, but she's consistently controlled.
14:28If there were certain girls that were not performing well on a shoot, I would sometimes be pulled aside and
14:34say, okay, this person, we have this story.
14:38We need them to go forward at least a couple more episodes.
14:43Get us there.
14:43We have to let go of the control.
14:45Where do you not feel good enough?
14:47Tell me.
14:47Talk to me.
14:48I don't trust myself.
14:50Because if the photos are just crappy, it will become hard to say this person deserves to stay in the
14:57competition.
14:58Good job.
14:59Before it is a modeling show, it is a television show.
15:02I think Nick is great.
15:04I love this picture of her.
15:05But Nick's personality is so kind of wishy-washy still.
15:09Personality beat out pictures.
15:11Each week that she comes, I am just bored to death.
15:16They didn't always choose our best picture.
15:18You guys, this is my worst one.
15:20You're saying this is your worst one?
15:22Because the other one, I did the lines perfectly.
15:24Who doesn't think it was their best take?
15:26Initially, they were really trying to pull the best shots.
15:28But as we started getting into story, then it turned into, we need better story out of these shots.
15:36So sometimes, and I had no control over this, I lost my control.
15:43When a girl is eliminated, another shot was selected.
15:47You're giving us a sort of a high fashion look, but in fact, you just look sleepy.
15:52Sometimes, not always, it was not her best shot.
15:56And there was a better shot.
15:58The lack of ethics behind the scenes to make quote unquote good TV, it's really disturbing.
16:06Because for these girls, this is their life.
16:10A lot of these girls are like, you know, I want to help my mom out.
16:13I'm stuck at a dead end job.
16:14I have no other recourse.
16:16It was life or death for them.
16:19There was always been so much more at stake emotionally in Top Model than you have in a typical reality
16:28competition, which is just a game.
16:30Top Model was very different in that the prize was the promise of a career, the chance to be a
16:39model, to become America's next Top Model.
16:42For the girls that were in this show, this was about trying to achieve your dream.
16:49Dion and Natasha, please step forward.
16:54When I was eliminated, I was fucking shocked.
17:00I became so numb, I couldn't even move.
17:03Did we always get it right? I don't think so, no.
17:05I think sometimes we eliminated the wrong person, but that's the way it goes.
17:11Kayla, when you get that close, you just know it's going to be your picture.
17:15You just know it's going to be you. You know you're going to make it.
17:18I definitely was crushed.
17:20I really wanted to be one of the last two.
17:24I really thought it was going to be me.
17:27Maybe we could have done a better job to let them know that not everybody's going to be a star.
17:32I can't go back to doing what I was doing. It was killing me.
17:36What happened is you were filmed packing your bag, exiting the model apartment, and then a production assistant took you
17:45to a hotel room.
17:46You don't go home. Everyone stays with the production until the very end for confidentiality reasons.
17:54There wasn't a phone available to call anybody at that time.
17:59And then, of course, even if I did, I would not have been able to tell them, hey, I've just
18:05been eliminated.
18:06I couldn't disclose that information.
18:09Did Tyra or any of the producers call you later and say, hey, thanks for being gone?
18:14No.
18:15They were just kind of left, eliminated. It was just awful.
18:24I felt sorry for them, but I just know that it's dog-eat-dog world out there.
18:32In the real world, they eat you up and spit you right out.
18:41As soon as you get off the plane and go back home, reality sets in.
18:46Are you going to take a shot at modeling? Are you going to try and move to New York?
18:50There is no guidance. You have to figure it out on your own.
18:53We were rooting for all of these supermodel hopefuls back in the day.
18:57Listen, I would do where they are now videos for the girls of America's Next Top Model, but the truth
19:01is I don't really know where they're at either.
19:02I wouldn't say that there were clients knocking down doors being like, we saw Laura on the show. We really
19:08want to hire her.
19:10Yeah, things didn't work out the way I was promised and stuff, but life isn't fair and you move on.
19:16Well, I'm actually the winner of America's Next Top Model, so sorry, you're still not what we're looking for.
19:24I couldn't use any of the photos from America's Next Top Model in my actual modeling portfolio.
19:30The photo shoots were way overly themed, way too much makeup.
19:35I got really far in this competition, but then in real life, I was in the modeling industry, was nobody.
19:44I came to New York several times to take a stab at, you know, trying to get signed to an
19:49agency.
19:50It did not work out.
19:54There was a stigma to being part of a reality series. Not anymore.
20:00People would love to be on a reality series now to get their brand out there.
20:05Because now the world is completely different.
20:08What Top Model did was really create the beginning of influencers.
20:14These days, everyone is a supermodel. Everyone is an influencer. Everyone is famous.
20:20There are tons of people out there now going directly to the public without the gatekeepers that used to be
20:26in place.
20:27You take control of your own narrative today. But at that time, it was absolutely not something that you did.
20:35The girls that are successful now are running because the other ones walked first.
20:41We opened the door. We slammed it wide open. And so many came through.
20:49Eva the Diva, who was five, five, five, six.
20:53Isis, one of the first trans people on a huge, successful show like that.
20:59And Winnie Harlow is one of the biggest models on the planet.
21:05Whitney, our first plus size, hate the word, curve model to win.
21:12When I won, this was like a big deal that a plus size model was winning on the show.
21:20And then, of course, we got a contract with Elite Model Management and they didn't even have a plus division.
21:26So it's like, what kind of fucking joke is this? I really had to fight for a place.
21:33But eventually, I ended up being the first plus size model for so many massive companies.
21:41And finally, these models later were able to get that success.
21:46But it's on the backs of the ones that opened that door.
21:52America's next top model is Danielle.
21:58Oh.
22:00And it's me in that picture. Oh my God, that's me.
22:04I remember thinking, life happens after winning A&TM. Life begins.
22:09Literally, the 12-year-old Danielle is like, we're up. We won, right? Like, we're here. We're here.
22:17New York, professional model, like, it's only up from here.
22:21I'm like, come on, girl, mommy. I'm a cover girl.
22:24But those cameras shut down on top model and they just threw me to the wolves.
22:33When I moved to New York in July, I moved right into the model's apartment.
22:38My agent at the time at Ford called me and she was like, you need to come in to the
22:43agency.
22:47The energy at the agency was just, like, off-putting. It was cold. It was a very, like, cold interaction.
22:56And that was the hardest thing because I'm new to the industry, I'm signed to you guys, but it was
23:04kind of like I was the redhead stepchild.
23:07Or better yet, the black sheep. Like, why are you here?
23:11And I sat in the model's apartment for months, never going on castings.
23:18Did you know of other girls around you who weren't on the show that were thriving?
23:25Thriving. Like, I lived in the model's apartment with Chanel Iman, who went on to become, like, a very prominent
23:34top model.
23:36And I remember her coming home this one day, this one morning.
23:40She was like, I finally asked our agent why you never have castings whenever I go get the castings for
23:47all the girls.
23:47And she said to me, well, we have to treat Dani differently because she came from top model.
23:57That was a hard, hard pill to swallow.
24:02My experiences mirrored that.
24:06I remember my first show season. I didn't book any shows.
24:09What I was told was that no one wanted to book me for their shows because I was viewed as,
24:17like, this reality star.
24:19And designers didn't want me walking in the show to take attention, if you will, off of their collection and
24:26onto myself.
24:27And so I knew very early on that, oh, top model has a stigma.
24:34I've already lived 20 years in the real modeling industry and got my ass handed to me.
24:41So I was never able to rise to the level that I could have or should have.
24:47What angers me the most is the conversation that Tyra had with me years later.
24:54She told me that, she's like, I knew that there were certain doors that you couldn't even get into.
25:03Because you did top model.
25:05And I did nothing about it.
25:09And she said to me, I always rode the fence with you.
25:21And that's when I said, respectfully, Tyra, you have no fucking idea how painful it has been for me.
25:30You have no fucking idea.
25:34But for you to admit to me all these years, 15 years later, I know the hell that you've been
25:40going through.
25:41I know that you couldn't even walk through the threshold of certain doors.
25:45And so to have her, a black woman, say to me over the phone that I knew you were struggling
25:53and I did nothing about it?
25:56What?
25:57You don't got to support me. You don't even got to like me.
26:00But don't see me in my suffering and just walk past me.
26:05That's so fucked up.
26:10They built a whole empire, multi-million dollar brand known as America's Next Top Model,
26:17off the backs of every girl's dream that did that show.
26:20And it never became realized.
26:23The vast majority of the girls were kind of right back at square one or even worse.
26:32After the show, I felt really broken.
26:37Can you tell me what happened with Tyra later on when she invited you to her talk show?
26:44Um.
26:46It's a top model reunion today and don't forget to check out season five when it premieres tonight on UCN.
26:53She was asking me about what happened in Milan.
26:56And I told her I'd never seen it.
26:58It just brought up too many things and then I was like, I can't watch the show anymore.
27:02And then she just puts it on the screen in front of me.
27:05I'm gonna roll a little clip that a lot of us remember.
27:15And I don't look at it.
27:17She's like, I noticed you weren't looking.
27:19Sandy, you weren't watching that.
27:20You're looking down.
27:21How come you can't watch that?
27:22I just can't do it.
27:23Really?
27:24It brings back like all the old stuff.
27:26Oh, yeah.
27:27I'm like, I literally told you behind the scenes, like, I've never seen it.
27:31I don't want to see it.
27:32Don't show it.
27:34You didn't respect that at all.
27:38That was awful.
27:40That was miserable.
27:43Miserable.
27:45That behavior doesn't stop.
27:49Her behavior doesn't, doesn't change.
27:52Everybody wants to know, are you still with your boyfriend?
27:54No, I'm single now.
27:55You're single?
27:56Yeah.
27:57Why did you guys break up?
27:58Um, well, he couldn't get over it.
28:00He couldn't get over that.
28:01But you guys were together for like, I remember after you were together.
28:04Me and Eric, we tried.
28:08We really tried.
28:09I mean, he moved with me to New York after the show.
28:15But it would suck when I'd be walking with Eric down the street and somebody recognized me and call me
28:20a slut to my face.
28:22Archie and whore.
28:24Eric standing right next to me.
28:26That was fun.
28:28It made me hate myself.
28:31If you want drama, try putting 13 inspiring young models in a house to see who will become America's next
28:37top model.
28:37I am proud of my top model girls.
28:42After the top model, we thought one of us was gonna be with a top modeling agency and that was
28:52gonna be our new career.
28:57No.
28:59Were you the one that was on that modeling thing?
29:03Mm-hmm.
29:03Oh.
29:04Still working at Walgreens.
29:08You're all going to be blind as a bat.
29:12I don't like semen.
29:14Ignite that flame.
29:16Shooting in a Greek salad.
29:18No.
29:19Don't know what she's doing.
29:23As the show went on, Dawn had left.
29:28And there's a new president that came in, Mark Pedowitz.
29:32I remember I was getting a phone call from the network every day saying they need to talk to me.
29:37They need to talk to me.
29:39And I just kept putting it off, putting it off, putting it off.
29:43My assistant would be telling me this, they really need to talk to you.
29:46They really need to talk to you.
29:48And finally, the head of the network, he said, get her on the phone now.
29:56I took his call and I'll never forget.
30:00He said, the show is the biggest thing in the world, but it won't always be.
30:08And it's taking a dip.
30:10The head of the network said, the show is in a mature phase and we need to make a significant
30:16change.
30:16And there are no sacred cows.
30:22You have to let go of this, this and this.
30:29Three of my hearts.
30:34Mr. J, Miss J, and Nigel.
30:39It shocked me. I was like, what? There was no need to replace them.
30:45For my birthday, Tyra sent me flowers.
30:49I said, oh, how sweet.
30:51It was a note.
30:53Happy birthday.
30:54Love Tyra.
30:56And then, um, I was fired five days later.
31:02Eleven girls stand before me, but I only have ten photos in my hands.
31:09I remember them saying, we've decided we're going to go in a completely different direction.
31:13We were not going to be renewed.
31:15The girl that I do not call must immediately return to your house, pack your belongings, and go home.
31:22You want to talk about being slapped across the face and then slapped right back?
31:26If I honestly had to publish this picture, I would crop you right out of it.
31:29Come on, give me a break.
31:31I was finding the show.
31:33You look like when Moses parted the Red Sea that you were on the other side fishing.
31:36That's how old you look.
31:38And then, bye.
31:39Ratings are down.
31:40We're cutting the fat off the show that bringing the ratings down was the implication that it was us three.
31:46That was really tough.
31:48It was somewhat mercenary.
31:50Unless you are Tyra Banks, I'm afraid you're expendable and they will swap you out just like that.
31:58Ciao.
32:03As people got eliminated on our show, we also got eliminated.
32:07We have three cards in front of us and none of you have made it.
32:11So, Tyra, what did you think of, um, her?
32:16That is in your light, trust me.
32:18What did I think?
32:19What did you think?
32:20What is this for?
32:20I don't know, just a different angle.
32:22Don't put it on your website.
32:24Don't put it on my website.
32:26When I wanted to leave, I wasn't afforded that.
32:31And then, I work on this show from cycles 10 through 18.
32:38I made so many concessions.
32:45That's the part that's the most hurtful.
32:49We were going to put out one joint press release and they said we would all get a quote in
32:56this press release.
32:56We see it all the time in television shows, people saying so-and-so and so-and-so have decided
33:01to part ways.
33:04And Tyra, she's like, we'll put out in our press release how, you know, we're going to continue to work
33:08together and blah, blah, blah.
33:10So we agreed to that.
33:13Tyra Banks has fired her panel of experts.
33:16Oh, my God.
33:18There was a leak to page six that said the three of us were fired.
33:22Banks booted judges Nigel Barker, J. Manuel, and Miss J in a stunning top model housecleaning.
33:28I said, ooh, ooh.
33:30A leak to page six.
33:32That show, the way we ran confidentiality and we're on these conference calls, there's no leak to page six.
33:37Anyone can assume where that came from.
33:39You now put that out there that way and we can't undo that no matter what we say.
33:44I mean, that's the double slap.
33:47That's the part that you then have to live with.
33:50That was probably the lowest point for me.
33:55Nigel, I just remember him being, and I didn't know him to be this way.
34:01I could feel, it was quite palpable how upset he was.
34:06It was difficult because I didn't have a backup plan at that point because I had been on top model
34:12for 17 seasons.
34:13And I had been really in the show kind of growing up with my family on America's Next Top Model.
34:18It was disappointing and I felt a little bit, like, betrayed.
34:23Why would you not allow people who've been a part of your show since its inception to move forward in
34:30their career with grace?
34:32It gives people their dignity.
34:36It was very deliberate.
34:40I'd heard them say on set many times, what do we gotta do to create drama?
34:50We were gonna be the drama.
34:52For the very first time, the three stars of America's Next Top Model were all just fired by Tyra Banks
34:59in their first TV interview together.
35:02As soon as the news broke, you guys saw the headlines, I'm sure, as soon as they were coming out
35:05and all said, judges fired.
35:07That's how people were putting it.
35:08Do you feel blindsided by what happened?
35:11I think more than anything, I feel a little sad.
35:14Well, I got flowers last week sent to me by Tyra.
35:18To soften the blow?
35:20That's what I kind of thought.
35:22I said to myself, hmm.
35:25Hmm.
35:26I just set them worried, Dustin.
35:27What I'm also interested to know is if this in any way is kind of a relief.
35:32I mean, let's face it, I worked with Tyra from way back when.
35:36Her reputation precedes her.
35:38She is tough to work for.
35:40And then, of course, the question that was posed directly to me.
35:44How tough was Tyra to work for?
35:47Jay grabs my knee like, go ahead, girl.
35:51Like, it's just like, Jay, like, why are you doing this to me?
35:56I, we had to speak very carefully, you know, contractually at the time.
36:01You know, there are only certain things you can speak about around production and what have you legally.
36:07Ken, Tyra, they were all watching us live.
36:10I know that.
36:11And I just thought, she's waiting for my answer.
36:14And, um, well, you know, here's the thing.
36:17I'm, I'm a perfectionist too.
36:19I usually demand a lot, you know, for people who work with me.
36:22No, it's true.
36:23He's like, no, I can't.
36:25You know, it is.
36:26And I think that was actually our initial connection.
36:27I still really respected her as a model and a business mind.
36:32In terms of her being specifically difficult or rude, that's not Tyra's.
36:37She's, she's not the type of person to walk out and out.
36:40She just has a very strong work ethic and, and, and knows what she wants.
36:43Like, I'm sure we all do.
36:44Yeah.
36:44Let, let me just ask you before.
36:45It felt like the culmination of how our entire relationship and how I always viewed her.
36:51I have to do something to fix and bridge the gap.
36:56Like I, that's how I looked at it.
36:59And that's just who I was.
37:02Fierce and love to my Nigel Barker, Mr. J Manuel and Miss J. America's Next Top Model turn us into
37:09a family excited.
37:10That was probably some of the hardest news I have ever had to deliver in my existence.
37:15I cried myself to sleep that night.
37:19You know, they were there from the beginning.
37:22Best friend in the bed coming up with photo shoots.
37:26Backstage at fashion shows hanging, laying on them.
37:29Some of the closest people to me in my life.
37:32And me and Ken have to deliver that news that the deal is up, that it is over.
37:40You can imagine what that feels like.
37:45But bosses have bosses.
37:47And the big boss was very clear.
37:50There are no sacred cows.
37:52And I heard that meaning you too, Tyra.
37:55So pick up the phone and do what I'm telling you to do.
38:03And the thing is, I don't believe that they knew that it came from above.
38:10No matter how much Ken and I were explaining this was not our decision to this day,
38:17I think they think that it was me and Ken.
38:22Yeah.
38:23She was willing to do anything for her show.
38:26However you want to look at that clearly, even in that situation,
38:30she would do anything for the success of her show.
38:42Patrick, I'm totally freaking out right now.
38:44Ty, why?
38:45It's the 19th cycle.
38:47Ooh, 19th cycle.
38:48I need a whole new direction for the new season.
38:50A total H2T makeover.
38:52It's gotta be fierce.
38:53It's gotta be totally amazing.
38:55It's gotta be Totes Amaze.
38:58A lot of reality shows fall into this trap of trying to stay relevant.
39:05This cycle, I opened up the competition exclusively to girls 5'7 and under.
39:10Trying to reinvent.
39:12You think you're about to see a typical episode of Top Model, don't you?
39:14I'm gonna take a cue from Twitter King and ultimate prankster himself, Ashton Kutcher.
39:18And so they lean on gimmicks.
39:21They jump the shark.
39:23I went through all the past cycles and brought back your favorite.
39:27I made everything bigger.
39:29I'm talking celebrities as mentors.
39:32The Kardashians, ready, set.
39:35The fire kind of went out a little bit.
39:38The British are coming, the British are coming.
39:40May the best Ritt or the best Yank win.
39:44It hit me after graduating from Harvard.
39:46We just have to do a college cycle.
39:49All of these big changes that kind of reeked of desperation was just writing on the wall.
39:56I'm making you a judge.
39:58You, the fan, have a voice in the judging room.
40:01They thought by us leaving that people would come back and watch to see what the new guard was like
40:07and it was gonna be a ratings bump.
40:09The ratings went down dramatically and then continued to decline quite rapidly.
40:15Up to now, you know there were no poise allowed on Top Model.
40:18But that was then and this is now.
40:20I can smize.
40:21It just felt like this empire was crumbling right before our eyes.
40:30It's very important that when you tooch your booty, that you don't hoochie tooch it.
40:35She is cuckoo.
40:37Each and every girl on the planet has a chance to be one of the new items.
40:42Top Model's very first face wave!
40:45Pop Needham is a twist on Top Model.
40:49I don't think you deserve for me to tell you what that means.
40:51Over 100 million kids.
40:54This is some nonsense.
40:55Like I don't even, like what are we doing?
41:08After Cycle 22, the network came back to me and said, we don't want Tyra to be the host of
41:12the show.
41:16And I'm like, you're crazy.
41:17She is the show.
41:21No sacred cows.
41:26This is my baby.
41:28That was my life.
41:30It was like my right hand was gone.
41:33Welcome to America's Next Top Model.
41:38They replaced Tyra.
41:40We got a new host and, you know, everything changed.
41:44And that's when I was like, I'm logging off.
41:49They've lost the plot.
41:53America's Next Top Model stayed on the air for 24 cycles.
41:57And by the end, we kind of mutually decided that we didn't want to do it anymore.
42:02It had run its course.
42:04Times were changing and it was probably just time to put it down and do something different.
42:11What happened after the show is because I became known for doing such elaborate photo shoots, I also got booked
42:18to do those sorts of shoots in real life.
42:21I shot an entire book with Taylor Swift.
42:24I ended up working with Miss Universe and Miss USA.
42:29You don't already know if you're living under a rock, it is Jay Manuel.
42:32People knew me as a personality, so I ended up with a contract with E.
42:36I did a cosmetic company and eventually I wrote a novel.
42:40The wig, the bench, and the meltdown.
42:42The book is really inspired by my life in the whole kind of crazy world of reality TV and the
42:49entertainment industry.
42:50Let's just be clear, it's a novel.
42:54Jay has just been off on a top monitor.
42:58I went on to do a job on Russia, China as well.
43:03I am here with Jay Alexander, a legend in the fashion world and a huge part of the success of
43:10our fashion program at SCAD.
43:12I was at SCAD for 15 years.
43:16How do I maintain my icon status?
43:20Very simple.
43:20Be me and be authentic.
43:23I have always been authentic.
43:28But then, everything changed.
43:36Okay, so here's my room.
43:38That I have been living in it for one year and five months maybe.
43:51On December 27th of 2022, I had a stroke.
44:01I woke up.
44:03I didn't know where I was other than in the hospital.
44:12I was in five weeks in a coma.
44:15And I couldn't walk.
44:18And I couldn't talk.
44:22And I thought to myself, what was I going to do?
44:26And that I couldn't walk.
44:27And that I couldn't speak.
44:34It was emotional.
44:35I cried.
44:38I'm not ashamed to say that I cried.
44:42And then once I was in the hospital, Jay and Nigel came to visit.
44:52I don't know whether he even wanted me to see him in that way.
44:54I was going to go see him.
44:57And that was just such a terrible shock and really upsetting and horrifying and scary.
45:07I could feel how upset he was for sure.
45:11I could only imagine where he was in his mind.
45:13You know, when he saw me, he was like happy to see me.
45:17And the two of us cried together and I held him.
45:21I thought back to how we used to do shows together.
45:26I cried because I just missed him.
45:29So much.
45:34You're looking great, Jay.
45:38This hair, though, I'm sick with because it's just so pretty and long.
45:41I know.
45:44I'm glad we are together.
45:48And, um...
45:49We're glad too, mate.
45:51It's really good to see you, mate.
45:55Yeah, it's really special.
45:57It has been a journey.
45:59And you're speaking so much better now.
46:01Yeah.
46:02You are battling through.
46:04When we first saw you in that hospital, you could hardly move, hardly talk.
46:08And now you're sitting up doing an interview, chatting, talking, rolling your eyes, making us laugh.
46:14It's a long journey, but you're going to get there.
46:19I know, it's been really, really hard, mate.
46:23The thing is, you're here, though. That's the thing.
46:26I know.
46:29Yeah, well.
46:46I miss being the queen little one, eh?
46:48The catwalks, of course.
46:53I miss being the queen little one, eh?
46:59The catwalks, of course.
47:00I just had to walk.
47:01Now I can't walk.
47:04Not yet.
47:06Not yet.
47:08I'm determined to walk.
47:10I'm sure you're going to see me again, I'm sure.
47:14Is that all for me, yet?
47:17You want to take a selfie?
47:18Since our last selfie was 2019...
47:20Come on, man.
47:21We gotta do it.
47:24All right.
47:25We're gonna wipe the lense.
47:27Okay.
47:33Did Tyra come and visit you?
47:35No, not yet.
47:38She just sent me a text that she wants to come and visit me.
47:45But, um, no.
47:47Not yet.
47:53Tyra! How you doing, Tyra?
47:56Hello, Tyra Banks here.
47:58I am a supermodel turned super businesswoman.
48:01After the show, I had so many different ideas for my life.
48:06I'm obsessed with pivoting.
48:08The fashion icon has launched a flagship ice cream store in Sydney.
48:13And I live in Australia now.
48:15I feel like my work is not done.
48:20You have no idea what we have planned for Cycle 25.
48:24I don't know why.
48:29With everything you went through, would you ever do Top Model again?
48:35I would say do it at your own risk.
48:40Of course, I'd love to do something like that again, but not do that again, if you know what I
48:45mean.
48:46it didn't age well but it was also a reflection of the time that's exactly how it was
48:51the only reason the door was open to me was because of Tyra I do feel like Tyra's intentions
49:00in the beginning were good but that shit got lost we were very young girls and we were put into
49:08a
49:08very mature adult world really fast that was hard we were just girls I had a young person woke up
49:18to
49:18me yesterday and they were like weren't you on that show that's amazing to see how the show has
49:27impacted so many people for so long so yeah Tyra Banks very much disappointed me but at the end of
49:34the day we're at a place now where we can say you know what this is not acceptable let's do
49:39something different this has been a long time coming I'm re-watching America's Next Top Model
49:44hard show to watch in hindsight there's a lot of darkness in Top Model that makes me look at it
49:50differently than I did when I was a kid looking at that show through the lens of today it's like
49:58why did you do that why did you do that okay Tyra said yeah she made some shit she did
50:01some shit you
50:02know she said some shit and I thank you for that that is the only way you change that is
50:09the only way
50:10you get better is by somebody calling you out on your shit it is important and I want to let
50:18you know
50:19that I want you guys to be just as open as I am now about getting called on my shit
50:24but when somebody
50:25calls you out on yours because that day will come and continue to evolve because that's what we're all
50:33going on is absolutely ridiculous perfect time to stop
50:37thank you
50:44I mean I can hang out it's not like if you want
50:49what have you been up to yeah I got the keys to the city
50:54I got the Arkansas keys to the city girl it's cute here I am now I'm a small business owner
51:02as well as a realtor I was thinking I was going to be an actress and which I am and
51:06will become and
51:07there's great roles out there for me so go ahead producers make it work I auditioned for a home
51:11improvement show and I got it and it changed my life completely starting my own business and
51:17construction and carpentry hung up the heels grab my tool belt did real estate Manhattan as a rental
51:24agent for six or seven years hated it and then I joined a theater group in New York and so
51:32I'm back
51:34actually ended up buying this really cute little ice cream shop called the pink pelican we travel the
51:40world and have ice cream that's that's my life now so you inside are having ice cream I know what
51:46the
51:46fuck she copied me okay I had the ice cream shop first I started working with violent offenders
51:52leading trauma-informed care and I love it it's very hard but this is the most fulfilling work that I
52:01have
52:01done yet I take care of animals for a living I want to live on a farm and have like
52:06a sanctuary for
52:07animals and I've always loved animals dissolving my contract and walking away from the industry it's
52:16been the best decision of my life getting to know Danielle not Danny but Danielle I just felt like the
52:24industry was vain I was like I want purpose I want to impact someone's life I learned so
52:31much about God's grace I am now a post coach helping develop aspiring models that they understand
52:39hey you don't have to be a particular size you don't have to be a particular weight there's space for
52:45you and if there isn't space for you we're going to make this space
53:44that's your perspective I'm not going to make this space for you I want to make this space for you
53:44to see what's going on my life yeah and if you want to make this space you're a sufrior
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