Entertainment Lawyer & Professor Bernie Lawrence Watkins, Esquire: My Friends Are Better Than Yours

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In this episode of “My Friends Are Better Than Yours,” BIG CED sits down with powerhouse entertainment attorney and professor Bernie Lawrence Watkins, Esquire to talk about her 26‑year journey in entertainment law, her roots in Queens and at NYC’s legendary Music & Art (LaGuardia), and how Howard University and law school prepared her to build a respected practice in Atlanta.   From watching her brother’s ups and downs as an artist to becoming a “contract killer” for producers, songwriters, and artists, Bernie breaks down how she advocates for creatives, negotiates better deals, and protects her clients in a changing music industry. She also shares how she built her own firm BLW & Associates, the story behind working with major producers (including Bangladesh and others tied to Ludacris, 50 Cent, Luther Vandross, Aretha Franklin, and more), and why she’ll walk away rather than put her name on a bad deal.   Beyond law, Bernie talks about her role as an adjunct professor of entertainment law at Georgia State University College of Law, her passion for mentoring the next generation, her life as a triathlete and fitness lover, and her plans for the future—including a possible judgeship and an upcoming book targeted for 2026.   If you’re an artist, producer, or future lawyer looking to understand the business, this conversation is packed with gems on discipline, time management, self‑belief, and navigating the industry as a Black woman at the top of her field.  Connect with BIG CED:  https://www.instagram.com/bigced328/  https://www.facebook.com/bigced328  https://x.com/bigced  https://bsky.app/profile/bigced328.bsky.social  https://www.linkedin.com/in/bigced/  https://www.twitch.tv/bigced328  https://www.dailymotion.com/bigced https://rumble.com/user/bigced328  https://open.spotify.com/show/35yBW0BTd4c7HvCnh9dVXz?si=HvZeE8RfTJGH6YjvHBiYzg&nd=1&dlsi=a147a471e6ab4c5c  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-industry-cosign/id1638654676  https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-the-industry-cosign-105171601/ https://www.youtube.com/@bigced328?sub_confirmation=1 https://theindustrycosign.com/

Transcript

00:00:10Hello, peoples. Big Sad back again, Industry Cosign. The latest edition of My Friends Are

00:00:17Better Than Yours. For those who are tuning in for the first time, my platform, I've been doing

00:00:23interviews and things of that nature for many, many, many, many, many years. And I decided to

00:00:28do my friends better than your friends because I've either grown up, went to school, worked

00:00:34with some dope people, and instead of focusing on the usual celebrities or executives I usually

00:00:42need to, although some of them are, I decided to make sure that I put forth the effort to

00:00:48make sure that my friends are more recognized than anybody that I've ever covered. And one

00:00:53of them are here tonight. We went to high school together. Well, she, a little bit, you know,

00:00:58she went to school a couple of years before me, but not only yourself.

00:01:02Well, we went to school together. I know, I know. What's she talking about, Willis?

00:01:10But the young lady that is currently on the screen, I mean, if we went through her accolades

00:01:16and the things she's done, then the interview would probably start on Thursday. So we're

00:01:24definitely going to touch on some of the things she's done and what she's doing. So I'm going

00:01:28to ask her to just give a brief intro of herself, and then that way we'll take it from there

00:01:33because there's so much to talk about and so little time. So I'd like to introduce Bernie

00:01:40Lawrence Watkins Esquire. Hey, hey, hey. What's happening? So I'm well, I'm well. Thanks

00:01:52for having me. It's a pleasure to be on your show. And yes, we go way, way back. And I

00:01:57can't wait till 2026 when we celebrate our reunion. I'm looking forward to that. You know,

00:02:04the body is deep in the heart. You know how it goes. But let's talk about my background. I've

00:02:12been practicing law for 26 years now, specializing in the field of entertainment, work with a lot of

00:02:21people in the music industry. We also work with people in the film industry as well. I am a contract

00:02:32negotiator, contract killer, I'd like to say. I enjoy what I do. It's a great passion of mine,

00:02:41working with talented people and making sure that they get the right deals. That's what it's all about

00:02:46for me, getting the right deal, closing the right deal and empowering my clients to do more and be

00:02:53bigger and better than ever. So it's been a treat doing it for so many years. I've seen my clients

00:03:01blossom and I feel blessed. In addition to having a law firm, practicing law, I also am a professor

00:03:11at law. I teach at Georgia State University College of Law. I teach intro entertainment law. So you could

00:03:19call me Professor Lawrence Watkins. And that's been going on three years now. And I also am the CEO of

00:03:31Eclipse Distro, which is a digital distro company. And yeah, that's a little bit about my background.

00:03:42Okay, we're definitely going to have, like I said, a lot to talk about, because you're, you know, you're

00:03:48kind of big in the game, you know, for the few people that may not know. But I know you're

00:03:54based in

00:03:54Atlanta now, grew up in Queens. We went to Music and Art, aka LaGuardia. I won't say when we graduated,

00:04:04but it was a while ago. And we happened to, I think our class was the only class that spent

00:04:11split times

00:04:12in the new school, as we said back then. And those that don't know, Music and Art, well, you have

00:04:19to be

00:04:19older for this reference, I'm about to say, because Music and Art and Performing Arts, there was a movie

00:04:25fame, this was like in the 80s, that Performing Arts was based on. And we had so many talented people,

00:04:32because it was a performing arts high school. We had many people that went there that were just

00:04:37excellent, that happened to actually have a career where if we did a reunion of the people that went

00:04:44there, just in the four years we went there, we can fill a stadium for the fans of the people

00:04:50that

00:04:51went there. But we can get into that at another time. But being that you went to school, if I'm

00:04:57working for music, right? Yeah, music. Yes, my major was voice.

00:05:02Yeah, voice. We were both a vocal major. So I know that people tend to do things when

00:05:12in high school and college, and they end up doing something for their career anywhere.

00:05:16You went for music. What led you into law, entertainment law specifically?

00:05:24Sure. You know, it's interesting. When I was in high school, I was, well, my friends from high

00:05:30school tell me that I always talked about going to law school. But I just recall in high school,

00:05:38they would say, you have to be willing to be a starving artist, and also not being able to pay

00:05:45your

00:05:46rent and sleep, sometimes sleeping in your car. You got to be really passionate about the entertainment

00:05:50industry. And I was like, I need my table, I need a house, I need a bed to sleep.

00:06:00My parents were not, you know, I'm from the Caribbean. You know, I was raised in New York,

00:06:05but I wasn't born in the United States. I was born in a different country. So my parents were not

00:06:10having

00:06:10that. They weren't even having me go to going to LaGuardia. They were like, what are you doing? What do

00:06:17you

00:06:17mean voice? What do you mean concentration voice? You got to go to college. So when I went to college,

00:06:25you know, Ron was at college with me at Howard, and he was making beats at the time.

00:06:30Oh, wait, hold on, hold on. We have to mention who Ron is, because I know who Ron is, but

00:06:35they know

00:06:36who Ron is, but they don't know yet. But Ron Lawrence, one of the dopest producers in general,

00:06:44and I got to say, what's up there? Because he's a great guy as well. Ron Lawrence used to be

00:06:48with

00:06:49a hit boy, Hitman, Hitman. Yeah. And like I said, that's another station, but I mean,

00:06:56you see the lineage already, but go ahead. Sorry. Continue. Yes. So he had gotten a record deal.

00:07:03He and DDOT, and they were called Two Kings and a Cypher. But being his sister, I got to see

00:07:11firsthand what it meant to be a starving artist. And I didn't like what I saw, to be point blank

00:07:17with

00:07:18you. I didn't like it at all. I knew the struggles that he was going through, what he experienced. And

00:07:24then when they lost the deal, I was like, I'm going to law school. I'm going to make sure every

00:07:29artist

00:07:30that I work with gets the best deals possible. And those aren't bad deals. I'm going to get them

00:07:36out there. Bad deal. And I was like, I'm going to be an advocate for artists. That's why I'm going

00:07:41to law school. I didn't know any entertainment lawyers. I had no clue how I was going to pay for

00:07:46law school. And I was like, and I hate, hated reading, but I was like, I'm going to become a

00:07:54lawyer.

00:07:56That's what you have to do as a lawyer. People didn't believe me at the time, but I went ahead

00:08:02and I did it. And here I am today. I was on a mission. I've always been on a mission.

00:08:08I stay on

00:08:09a mission. So if Ron didn't venture into the music business, what were your plans before you decided

00:08:18to go into law or did you have any plans? Sure. Uh, I was a, when I first went to

00:08:24Howard,

00:08:25I went in as a management major. I didn't like it. Uh, I had a few jobs and I saw

00:08:32what the managers

00:08:34and retail were doing and I didn't like it. And I switched my major to marketing and, um,

00:08:41on the sales side, I wasn't too fond of it. And I said, I couldn't see myself trying to sell

00:08:47products

00:08:48or sell anything to anyone that just wasn't my personality. And people turned me down. I just

00:08:54didn't know how I would receive that. And I was like, you know what? I just, I couldn't do it.

00:09:00I had gotten a job when I graduated from Howard. It was with a company called household finance.

00:09:07And, uh, the day that I was supposed to show up for that job, I called them that morning and

00:09:12I said,

00:09:13I'm not coming. I'm going to law school. And that was it. And I was just, I, I just wanted,

00:09:22I wanted to be in a position where I made decisions and it was a position of authority,

00:09:31a position that people respected and that I can have an impact on people's lives. Uh, so

00:09:39why not become a lawyer? You know, and with a, with a B with a law degree, I could be

00:09:46in a position

00:09:46where I can affect change. And that's really, you know, life is about being in the position

00:09:51where you can help others and make a difference in their lives.

00:09:57Now, um, I mean, you, you coincidentally went to two prestigious music and I was definitely a

00:10:02prestigious high school in New York city. Cause we wanted to only specialize high schools.

00:10:06And then you ended up going to Howard with the tradition of, you know, uh, black college,

00:10:11the HBCU. Um, how were those both experiences now, coincidentally going to both? I know you've met

00:10:20people that we, we ended up becoming like in the same field because like, even though I didn't go

00:10:26to Howard, I damn didn't know half the people that went there, you know, based on, you know,

00:10:31who graduated or at least who went there. Cause you know, a lot of people went, but didn't graduate.

00:10:34But anyway, um, like, so you were already a lot of people that went, didn't graduate.

00:10:40No, we're not going to say anything. You got to have a certain mindset. You got to understand

00:10:47when you go to school, you got to be focused. Yeah. You can have fun, but you can't let the

00:10:52fun

00:10:53overtake you. You, you, everybody has a purpose in life and you got to understand that purpose.

00:10:58And if you live in for a different purpose, which is partying, that's on you. But my purpose was bigger

00:11:05than that. Howard was definitely known to be a party school at that time. And I'm pretty sure

00:11:12even still today, but going there, well, like you said, that actually makes a better question for me,

00:11:18because you went to a school. Now, when we went to the high school, we went to a special high

00:11:23school

00:11:23where we all were from different boroughs because like typically in New York, for people that didn't

00:11:28grow up in New York, you know, typically you, you're going to your zone high school,

00:11:31school, but we were one of the, I think only like five schools. Yeah. What five schools at the time

00:11:37that, you know, you had to take a test to get into. And so you had to audition. We had

00:11:42to audition.

00:11:44Yeah, exactly. I was not, I was adamant about not going to my local high school. I told my mom,

00:11:50no, I said, I am not going to, it was a school called Bright High School. And it was in

00:11:55Astoria,

00:11:58Astoria, Queens. I said, I'm not going there. I am going to music and art. It was music and art

00:12:03at

00:12:03the time. And because she was like, I'm not paying your way. I said, I'll get a job. And that's

00:12:09what

00:12:09I did. I got a job. So all through high school, I worked at the local supermarket. So that's why

00:12:16I

00:12:16didn't participate in any extracurricular activities after school, because I had to take a bus

00:12:25to Q19B had to take that to the seven train. And I take seven train to the E train and

00:12:31then take the

00:12:31E train to the D train. And then, yeah. So you take a boat, a helicopter and then two hours

00:12:40just to get

00:12:40to school. And then two hours, sometimes longer in the afternoon to get back. So I wouldn't get home

00:12:47until about maybe five or so. And then I would go and work from six to nine in the evening.

00:12:54Yeah.

00:12:56You were putting long hours in, even in high school. Wow. Yeah. You were prepared to be an

00:13:02attorney. I've always been disciplined. I've been always, I've always been disciplined. I'll just put

00:13:07it that way and focus. So my question to you is, well, I mean, it's so funny because like I

00:13:14said,

00:13:14knowing all that now, I mean, we went to high school together, but once we leave to go our

00:13:19separate ways, we really don't care what we're doing because we're worried about what we're

00:13:22doing. So I didn't even know you were working, but I know that the reputations of the schools

00:13:28you went to and then like, I'm pretty sure you had an expectation of yourself just in general. And I

00:13:35say that because I know you from high school. So how was it like going to like two procedure schools

00:13:41and then going to law school prepare you to be excellent in your field?

00:13:52Sure. So, you know, I went to school with a lot of great people, but fortunately for me, I don't

00:14:06live my life for anyone else but me. So it's not about making the comparison. Oh, she's great. Oh,

00:14:13he's great. Oh, I got to be greater than them. No, I always have to work to the best of

00:14:18my ability,

00:14:19understanding what my constraints are. What are my strengths? What are my weaknesses? What do I,

00:14:25what do I need to work on for me? That's what it's always been. I've always had a strong focus

00:14:31on me,

00:14:32making myself better every day. And that was a commitment that I made to myself because

00:14:40when I was in high school and when I was in college, I wasn't one who spoke a lot. I

00:14:47didn't

00:14:47talk a lot. I don't know if you remember. I was rather quiet. I was quiet. I was a quiet

00:14:52girl.

00:14:52I was, I was really quiet. Um, and I knew that if I wanted to become a lawyer, I had

00:14:59to change that.

00:15:00I had to, because as a lawyer, you're basically the voice for others. So you have to be able to

00:15:06speak

00:15:06up and speak out for others on behalf of others. So I had to work on those skill sets, uh,

00:15:13to make

00:15:13myself better. And I had to practice, even if that meant practicing in the mirror and becoming more

00:15:19confident. And, and, um, but it wasn't about my colleagues. I always respected my colleagues and

00:15:28always wanted the best. It was really a great feeling being in school with people who were

00:15:36trying to succeed. Everybody wanted to excel. And that really made me feel good. I felt like I was

00:15:42surrounded by a village of people who look like me that wanted to do extremely well in life.

00:15:52And that empowered me to do more and become more and want more for myself.

00:15:59So the focus is there. And when I went to law school, the, um, the makeup of the law school

00:16:07was

00:16:07totally different. So stepping into that environment and realizing now that, you know,

00:16:15you know, Howard, you're the majority with a majority, but when I'm in law school, I'm the

00:16:19minority. So it helped me to understand that people will always look at you, criticize you,

00:16:29not because you're, you're good. You're not good, but because of what you look like

00:16:34and people just don't like you just because they just don't like you. But are you going to, um,

00:16:41put yourself down or feel a certain way, negative way, just because other people feel a certain way?

00:16:50At Howard, they teach us to be strong. They teach us to love ourselves. They teach us

00:16:54to always put in 200%. You have to empower yourself to always be the best that you can possibly be.

00:17:01So I went into law school with that mindset.

00:17:06That's great. And the thing is like, like, I remember like going to Howard, you know, during

00:17:12homecoming or just to get down for the weekends. And I mean, yeah, I can understand why some people

00:17:18didn't graduate because of the, um, the jovial happiness that everyone had, but I also credit the

00:17:27people like you who were able to get through all of that and still able to graduate. As a matter

00:17:34of

00:17:34fact, um, one of my, well, we'll see. The thing is this, um, said you have some people who go

00:17:43to

00:17:43college because they're told they don't, they're going to college. They don't know why they're in

00:17:48college. They're just going to college because their parents said, you're going to college.

00:17:52And your parents said, you're going to become a doctor. You're going to do this. You're going to

00:17:56do that. So they really don't know what they want to do in life or what they want to be.

00:18:00Uh, for me, I really wanted to make something of myself because of my, my, my background and my,

00:18:08like I said, my entire family is from a different country. And it was really about coming to America

00:18:14to live the American dream. And I didn't want to disappoint my parents and disappoint my family.

00:18:22Um, so why not get what I possibly can out of being in this place called the land of opportunity?

00:18:36Now I'm, I'm, I'm going to, when, when, when I just have this, oh, okay. So you, you have your

00:18:44own

00:18:44practice. I know I'm skipping. Sometimes like other things are asked. And as I'm talking,

00:18:51other things come into mind, do what you can. Let's just freelance. This is another conversation.

00:18:57Just let's go. I can go with the flow. Whatever you got, give it to me. Let's go.

00:19:02Now, the reason why I'm asking this question, like I said, you have your own practice and you know,

00:19:06you've been doing it for years and being not only from a different country, not only being a female,

00:19:14not only being black, like you've had to overcome so much to get into the position that you are

00:19:21in, like, as I stated, like, how, like, how are you like, okay. Did you, did you first start with

00:19:28a law firm or like, like, how did, how did your practice before your practice even started or for

00:19:33I know your practice may have started with your first client, but like, how did that all come about

00:19:38as far as the lead up to BLW? Sure. So when I, when I was in my last year of

00:19:45law school,

00:19:47I, um, was talking to a good friend and that good friend happened to be Herbie Lovebuck, right? Founder

00:19:54Salt-N-Pepa. I was, he was a mentor because remember I, at one point I thought I was going

00:20:01to be an artist

00:20:03and I was his, I was his artist. I called him up and I said, look, I'm thinking about going

00:20:09to,

00:20:11going back to New York because I went to law school in Maryland, going back to New York,

00:20:15or I'm going to LA. And he said, you need to go to Atlanta. We got Lafrace records and you

00:20:24know,

00:20:24we got all this movement taking place. It's not like New York or LA, but it's starting to bubble.

00:20:29You need to come to Atlanta because there's going to be more opportunities. And he was in the process

00:20:35of doing some things there too. So that's how I ended up in Atlanta, but things weren't happening

00:20:42like New York or LA. It wasn't Atlanta at that time. Uh, so I had gotten a job at a

00:20:50law firm,

00:20:51but it wasn't, uh, it was, it was in the litigation department. It was, I was actually doing document

00:20:57review. Um, and then I went to, uh, work in the litigation department, um, reviewing documents,

00:21:08writing memos, things of that nature. Um, it wasn't as a lawyer initially. Um, and then, um,

00:21:18when I passed the bar, I moved down into the business transactions department doing closings,

00:21:25commercial closings. And then I decided to move on to the city of Atlanta because I had my first child.

00:21:32Uh, but while I was doing all that, I was trying to check out the Atlanta scene, trying to figure

00:21:37out

00:21:38who was who, um, I was doing a lot of open mic nights, trying to just, again, figure out the

00:21:44lay

00:21:44of the land. And, you know, you, they're always fast talkers. People say they're this, they're that,

00:21:49and you have to figure out who's real and who's, who's phony. Um, but I was still traveling back and

00:21:58forth from New York to Atlanta, like, cause New York was hot at the time. So I would go to

00:22:04this

00:22:05industry events just so I can meet the A and R's and figure out, um, you know, build that rapport

00:22:10with

00:22:10people. Um, but in 99 is when I connected with my first real entertainment client, um, that was doing

00:22:22something. Well, he had a project with, uh, Chris Bridges who was on the radio and he actually produced

00:22:29half of his first album and, uh, it turned out to be Bangladesh. Um, and ended up working with Bane

00:22:38who became a very successful producer. We worked together for about 13 years.

00:22:44Um, but yeah, he was like one of my first biggest clients, but before him, I did have some, um,

00:22:53smaller clients when I was, you know, doing management agreements and things of that nature

00:22:58for them. Um, but my first real client came around 99 and then, um, while I was working at the

00:23:06city,

00:23:07I was moonlighting, I was closing my entertainment contracts and working at the city during the day,

00:23:14but doing my entertainment stuff at night. And then I started, then I picked up my brother

00:23:18as a client and I just realized I started making more money doing this moonlighting stuff that I was

00:23:26in my daytime job. So why not just open the doors full time? That's what I did. I was like,

00:23:32if I can make this kind of money on the side, imagine if I put all my all into what

00:23:37I could do

00:23:39and hence be Lawrence Watkins and associates gave her out in 2002.

00:23:45And I, you know, I've been signing my own check since.

00:23:51Great places once again. And for those that don't know, Chris Bridges is ludicrous. You know,

00:23:56we, we don't have the same, we don't have the same relationships that Bernie has when she's more

00:24:01formal with names and things of that nature. But, um, um, yeah, I was going to ask you, I was

00:24:06going

00:24:06to ask you like why to move to Atlanta, but that, that makes sense because definitely at that time,

00:24:10Atlanta was, I think the Olympics had just left because that was 96, right?

00:24:15Yeah, exactly. And that's around the time that I moved down to Atlanta. Yep.

00:24:19Yeah. I was supposed to move to Atlanta back then. I have friends who still live down there.

00:24:26They went down there for the Olympics. They all have like nine houses and 17 cars. And it was only

00:24:32making like $4 an hour when they went down there. And I'm like, I should have went down there, you

00:24:37know, but you know, things happen for a reason. But, um, what type of clients do you have? Because,

00:24:44you know, being an entertainment lawyer is, is such a wide spectrum, such a wide spectrum. And, um,

00:24:54what the, okay.

00:24:56Initially, when I first started picking up my clients, they were music producers. And

00:25:02I would say like, they were, I don't know, they, my first real music producer client again was

00:25:08Bangladesh. And then my brother came on board and then I picked up a producer by the name of Brandon

00:25:13Dirty Bird Parrot. He did P-I-N-P for 50 Cent. So here I got, you know,

00:25:18Bang doing all the Ludacris' stuff. So I got my brother doing records for, he was doing records for

00:25:24Luther Vandross, uh, uh, uh, Aretha Franklin, Beyonce. Um, uh, he was doing some big records,

00:25:34you know, just LL Cool J. So early in my career, I was, I was stacked up, you know? So

00:25:40I had a niche

00:25:41practice just representing producers for a very long time. I wasn't working with anybody else,

00:25:46just producers and songwriters. But fast forward to 2015 is when I, uh, when industry started

00:25:52changing with the streaming and everything, um, and Napston with the whole issue, issue with,

00:25:59with, uh, MP3s and things of that nature. And then streaming became a thing. You know,

00:26:04there was a shift in the music industry and more independent labels started, started coming

00:26:09about, and they're more independent artists. Then someone brought, uh, an artist to me by the name

00:26:16of, of 21 Sabbath. They said, we got this artist that I think would be good for you. You need

00:26:20to

00:26:21meet with him and see how the vibe went. And, um, yeah. And the rest is history.

00:26:27The vibe went well, obviously.

00:26:29The light went really well. And yeah, that was great experience.

00:26:34Really? I don't know if you knew this, but I used to produce music as well. And, um,

00:26:41my first, my first attorney, well, let me, let me rephrase it. Cause I love saying this.

00:26:46I was his first client. He also went to Howard. Matthew Middleton.

00:26:52Ah, yes. My dude. Yes.

00:26:55We, we used to work, we, we worked at Bloomingdale's together. Um, when I was a freshman in college,

00:27:00before, you know, before he went to Howard, while he was going to Howard. And I remember one day I

00:27:05had,

00:27:06he was going to bad boy. I was leaving bad boy. And I saw him in the street and he's

00:27:11like, yo,

00:27:11I just got my, um, my bar. This is another, he was an ADA. Um, so I was like, yo,

00:27:16if I need you,

00:27:17I'll contact you. So I got a project. My first project was another Howard head, Tracy Lee. So I produced,

00:27:24um, the title track on Tracy Lee's album. So the first person I called, because of course,

00:27:30Mark Pitts, Mark Pitts was the one that I connected with.

00:27:33Na, na, na, na, na. That one?

00:27:36Huh? Wait, which one?

00:27:37No, the first track on his album.

00:27:39Okay.

00:27:40Where he's like speaking to his characters.

00:27:42Okay.

00:27:42Um, and of course, Mark Pitts, because you know, he went to school with us.

00:27:46Um, so the first person I called was Matt. So Matt became my attorney. I was the very first client.

00:27:53Before he even became an entertainment lawyer, because he's working in an assistant.

00:27:57Right. He was assistant, um, DA. Yeah.

00:28:00So I love telling people that if it wasn't for me, Matt wouldn't be where he is today.

00:28:06But anyway, cause like I said, the Howard connection was, was so like, like I said,

00:28:10I didn't go to Howard, but I knew so many people that went to Howard that it seems as if

00:28:14I went to Howard because a lot of things that I did do, um, were like with either doing things

00:28:21with people from Howard and things of that nature. But, uh, I brought that up because

00:28:25like, like I said, as a producer, like, you know, Matt, you know, I actually taught Matt

00:28:30some things as, you know, as far as some things as a producer, but I'm pretty sure he knows more

00:28:34than me now. But saying all of that, um, when you started getting some of these producers and

00:28:42these people to like basically approach you, like work starts to come on, on, on the band,

00:28:49so to speak, how are you able to, I guess, let's go back to the question I had before

00:28:54when it comes to you running your own business as a young black female, that you had challenges,

00:29:02not because you were a female, but because of the way the industry operated and the chauvinistic

00:29:07mindset of most executives. Yes. I said most because I know what I'm talking about.

00:29:13Like congratulations for overcoming that. Cause obviously you've done well because you're still

00:29:17doing it. How are you able to get through the, the old boys network in order to get,

00:29:23like you said, the thing that your clients needed in order to satisfy, in order to get the right

00:29:29contracts and things of that nature. And also for you to be taken seriously, like what, what,

00:29:34like take me through the process of life. So that's a very valid question. Uh, I remember

00:29:39being a young attorney trying to find my way and figure things out, but I've always represented

00:29:47myself a certain way. Always. I was raised a certain way to always be professional, always be

00:29:52respectful. Even when people were not reciprocating, um, but don't change, just always be you.

00:30:02And I just always held to that standard. And that's the same way I operate today. Um, there were

00:30:09times where you call people, they don't call you back. Um, you email people, they don't email you

00:30:17back just because they don't know who you are and they don't know who you are. And you know,

00:30:21in the entertainment industry, they don't know you, they don't respect you basically. And so like,

00:30:26who are you, who do you represent? What's your roster look like? And if you don't have

00:30:29the names that are considered people are talking about, then people are not really going to, you're

00:30:41not going to be a topic of discussion. It's not until you start closing certain types of deals,

00:30:46you start making money for your clients and then your name starts getting around. And like I said,

00:30:53early on in my career, I was doing some nice work. And in, in the beginning, people didn't know

00:31:01that my brother and I were related. Uh, they just knew I was his lawyer. And I even had a

00:31:06lawyer once

00:31:06asked me when I was working on the Luther Vandross deal, how did you get this deal? And I said,

00:31:13excuse

00:31:13me? He said, yeah, how, you know, you, you're, you're a young lawyer. How did you get this deal?

00:31:17Then he said, I see y'all have the same name. Are y'all related? I said, no, we're not

00:31:21related.

00:31:22I got the deal because I do good work. Thank you very much. You know, um, it, it, it really

00:31:34boils

00:31:34down to the types of deals that you do. And once you start closing certain types of deals, working

00:31:43on certain matters, the name spreads, people find out who you are. They find out, Oh, who reps that

00:31:50person. They see a client doing well or artists doing well or produced doing well. They want to

00:31:54know who's behind that person. And then they ask, you know, most of my clients, even to this day,

00:32:01come through referrals. It's, it's not about, um, handing out business cards, say, can I represent

00:32:06you? I've never chased down a client. Not like that. Um, it's always been my clients referring me out

00:32:14and saying, this person's going to call you. I was telling this person about you or personal reach

00:32:18out and say, yeah, I was in the studio and your name came up. Or every time I tell someone

00:32:25I need

00:32:25an entertainment lawyer, they tell me that I need to call you. And I've heard your name at least five

00:32:30times. I said, let me call this lawyer and talk to her, see what she's about. So that's really what

00:32:36it

00:32:36has been for me. And again, I've always vowed to represent myself a certain way. I never wanted to

00:32:43be part of the party or the party. Um, it wasn't about going to the party and being seen at

00:32:51the party.

00:32:52It was really more about, um, what type of deal do you have? What are your concerns about the deal?

00:32:59Let's see what we can do to, you know, let, if you don't mind me asking for the gusto, we

00:33:05may not get

00:33:05it all, but just allow me to push the envelope a bit and see what comes back. Um, so it's

00:33:15really about

00:33:17your reputation, um, excelling, um, in the eyes of others. And then people want to then seek you out

00:33:27as a result of it. Um, and that's what it's been for me. And when you have clients like 21

00:33:34Savage who

00:33:35talk about, uh, what they, how they made money based on the deals that they're in, um, and you

00:33:44find out that I did the deal, then it's like, Hey, you know, so that's really what it's been about.

00:33:51You

00:33:51know, he and I no longer work together, but you know, we worked together for quite some time and we

00:33:56had, um, a great relationship and, um, uh, I respect him and his entire team wholeheartedly.

00:34:03They, they, they, they're all hard workers.

00:34:08I'm going to jump around again for a bit. Cause like I said, um, I always do. Um, I, I

00:34:13want,

00:34:13I want to go into the, um, you being a third year adjunct professor. I should have been calling you

00:34:19professor. I apologize. Um, how did that come about? What is an adjunct professor and what, um,

00:34:34what, how, like when, when, when you're teaching and when you're doing things like this, like,

00:34:39I want to, I want to know what, what comes to you while you're being a professor, because

00:34:45you know, you're, you're already an attorney, you're already, you know, you do so many things

00:34:49and now you're, you're a professor. So. Yes. So my mom was a teacher and I always thought that,

00:34:58oh man, I would never be a teacher because it was like, oh, teachers don't make any money.

00:35:03Why would I want to do that? No way. But as I've grown in my career, education has always been

00:35:11very

00:35:11important to me and educating my clients and making sure that they're well aware of the deals

00:35:16that they're doing and why they're doing those deals and why we're asking for certain terms.

00:35:21And I find that when I sit with a client, it's always about the education piece and they'll say,

00:35:27oh, you know, you need to teach because you'd be really good. I've had, uh, interns that worked for

00:35:34me and it, they always said, look, you do, you, you do a much better job than our professors.

00:35:39If you taught at a law school, you would be great. And I remember speaking to a class one day

00:35:49and after the class, the Dean walked up to me and said, would you like to teach? And I looked,

00:35:56I said, are you serious? I'm dead serious. He would be great. And I said, oh, you know what?

00:36:00A few people have mentioned it. I'll consider it. And I thought about my mom and this, you know, my

00:36:07mom

00:36:08may her soul rest in peace. This was my best way to, to recognize her and acknowledge her and,

00:36:15uh, what she has, you know, how influential she's been in my life. So I'm glad, um, I'm now able

00:36:23to

00:36:23give back to, to students in this way, because I'll tell you, it's a very fulfilling job. When I get

00:36:31up in

00:36:31front of that class and I have my lesson plan prepared for the day and I ask questions and

00:36:39they're able to answer the questions, they raise their hand and we have discussions going back and

00:36:45forth. I'm just smiling from ear to ear because it's like, oh my goodness, you get it. You understand

00:36:49it. You got it. So it makes me feel really, really good to be in a process where I'm educating

00:36:55the next

00:36:55generation of lawyers that have an interest in entertainment. So it's a very fulfilling role.

00:37:02Speaking of, you know, since you, since you said that,

00:37:06how do you manage time? Because you have like 740 clients, you have so many things, you're always

00:37:15being awarded awards, honors, you know, I know you do, um, you speak at conferences, things of that

00:37:23nature. Like, um, and I know it can be overwhelming because even in my little world, I have to do

00:37:30some,

00:37:30not that I have to, but I do some of these things. So I get it sometimes, but anytime I'm

00:37:35on LinkedIn,

00:37:35it's like Bernie Lawrence honored here or billboard this, or it's like, you know, and then it's like,

00:37:42but yet, like, even like, I've seen you maybe two times the last three years cause I was in Atlanta

00:37:47and it's like, you know, but it seems like you're still, you're still Bernie. You're still like,

00:37:53like some people can't, they, they go crazy. They pull their hair out.

00:37:59I get the best of you. Right. Um, I was a business major at Howard, right? My

00:38:06major was marketing. Right. So I studied business. I learned the importance of time management.

00:38:12I learned, uh, you know, the, the basic principles as relates to accounting, finance, management,

00:38:19um, uh, marketing, um, you know, in time management is extremely important,

00:38:27right? How you allocate time to different things that are important to you and how you manage your

00:38:33day. You have a schedule, right. And you have to be organized. So just keeping that in mind and going

00:38:40through your day. For me, I don't mind. I, I love what I do. So when you're passionate about

00:38:46something, it doesn't feel like work. So it's not like, Oh my goodness. So like most people that work

00:38:52nine to five, five o'clock, it's time to go. I'm not doing that. I don't know. I'm looking at,

00:38:58okay,

00:38:58what do I have to do next? Let me close this. Let me look at this deal. Let me look

00:39:02at that deal.

00:39:02There are plenty of times where I have to say, Bernie, you got to shut it down. It is time

00:39:07to

00:39:07just go to sleep. Um, so I do find time to work out cause that's important to me. My health

00:39:14and

00:39:14wellness is extremely important. I take time to get massages, go to the gym, um, and travel,

00:39:22you know, things that are very fulfilling to me. I take the time, but again, to answer your question,

00:39:28it's, it's a schedule. You have a schedule of, of, of your day. And when you can talk to people,

00:39:34and like I tell people, don't text me throughout the day. Don't call me throughout the day. I don't

00:39:39have time to just hop on a call. If you want to call me, you got to go to my

00:39:42assistant. We got to

00:39:43schedule a phone call and we can talk at that designated time. And we're not going to talk for two

00:39:49hours.

00:39:49We're going to talk for 15 minutes. So the longest will be 30 minutes. Um, and then if you want

00:39:56to

00:39:56talk, I got to, that conversation is going to cost you. So once you start money, only the serious people

00:40:05will, will come into play and other people that just, they fall by the wayside is again,

00:40:12the conversation is, it's, it's about money. We got to, it's, we're on a clock here. So

00:40:18exactly. You know, that that's, that's a real, that's a real trait of a lawyer.

00:40:24It is what it is. Right. Since you mentioned about working out, you are also a triathlete.

00:40:32Yeah. Swim, bike, run. I actually, um, I wanted to do it this year, but wasn't able to,

00:40:42I injured my shoulder at the top of the year. Um, so my plan is to try to work it

00:40:49into my schedule

00:40:49for 2026. I want to get back. Yeah. It's very, it's a very fulfilling experience because you

00:40:55challenge yourself to, to, to push the limits. And for me, I don't mind challenge. I don't mind

00:41:03pushing the limits. And again, you just, it's such a good feeling when you are physically fit.

00:41:11That's always, I don't know if you remember me back in high school. I stayed in the work room.

00:41:16I was always lifting weights. I was always in the work. I was always lifting weights. I had a brother

00:41:21that was a bodybuilder. Well, my older brother was a bodybuilder and another brother who was a runner.

00:41:26I had my brother would run from Queens to Manhattan like every day. I swear. Yes. Yes. And my other

00:41:33brother was a bodybuilder. So when we had a little gym in our basement and he was always lifting weights

00:41:39and I would be down there lifting weights. And in school, we had a weight room. I was always,

00:41:44you don't remember that somebody wrote that in my, um, yearbook. We put, they said the queen of the,

00:41:49uh, the weight room, something like that. Yeah. I used to, that was me. I was always

00:41:55into fitness always. And even when I went to college, I would walk three miles just to get

00:42:01to the gym in three miles back to my, my room, my dorm room. Um, yeah. And I would work

00:42:08out for good

00:42:09two hours. I know I saw something either on LinkedIn or Facebook where you climbed a mountain,

00:42:16something like, like in an hour, but I'm climbing too. Now it's a great workout. Yeah. Definitely.

00:42:26It's a great workout. I definitely saw that. Like I said, I knew you, I read up. Yeah. Diet and

00:42:34exercise,

00:42:35you know, it's your diet is extremely important though as well. You know, a lot of people talk about

00:42:42working out, but they don't eat right. And for me, that's important. I, I, I make sure I eat right.

00:42:48Yeah. I got, um, I, I got back into it recently because well, um, I'm not in shape. So,

00:42:54you know, but I've been doing much better. My doctor said that my numbers have been

00:42:58better because I'm more conscious and I just hate that. Um, I let go of myself, but it's never too

00:43:04late.

00:43:04So, you know, I'm back. Oh, too late. Yeah. Well, nobody's perfect. We all slip every so often.

00:43:12And I, I know I, I'm not a huge chocolate lover, um, because actually too much chocolate gives me

00:43:21migraines so I can't eat a lot of it. Yeah. So I may just have like, I can't eat a

00:43:26whole chocolate bar.

00:43:27That's not my thing. I'll eat like, uh, chocolate covered almonds, you know, so I'm getting the

00:43:34benefit of the almonds, but I've never heard of anybody getting migraines at a chocolate bar.

00:43:41Like I don't, I don't do that though. Or donuts. And yeah, yeah, I'm not doing that.

00:43:47That doesn't, the whole process thing. But, um, okay. Like I said, I don't want to take too much time.

00:43:54Um, okay. You mentioned earlier that you are CEO of eclipse distro. What is that? And, um, yeah,

00:44:02what is that in? It's a distribution platform, but I mean, you know, it's streaming. Yeah. It's a,

00:44:13it's a distribution platform. Um, we work with new artists, producers that are looking to distribute

00:44:20music. Um, it's just like going to a distro kid or any of the other distribution platforms. Um,

00:44:27we also, um, you reach out to us. If you have questions, we are responsive. We helped resolve any

00:44:36issues or concerns that you have, which is something that you don't really get through other distro

00:44:41companies and we're looking to revolutionize the distribution market. Um, so I've been working with

00:44:50my team, uh, and it's, it's been a great experience. So you just figured, let me just put some on

00:44:58my

00:44:58plate so that way, you know, I can just be busy all the time as opposed to all the time,

00:45:05all the time.

00:45:06Yes. I have, I don't, my free time is like, like right now, right? Yeah. These are things that I

00:45:14choose to do. You see what I'm saying? This, these are things that I choose to do. So if I

00:45:18choose to

00:45:19have free time at a certain time, I like to talk to big said, and then now that I got

00:45:26to make that

00:45:26time happen. Right. So for me, it's like, and I've always been like this. I'm not the type of person

00:45:32that can just sit and have all this time on my hands, like, and not do anything, just sit around,

00:45:39do nothing and just throw my thumbs. Oh, that was making me go crazy. I can't do that. I have

00:45:45to be

00:45:46doing something. I've always been like that ever since I was a kid. Like I said, I worked in high

00:45:52school. I've worked all through undergrad. I worked all through law school. I've always worked because I

00:45:58had to do something. Yeah. That's just me. Speaking of doing something, I know you're,

00:46:06you're very proud of, um, your children because not only because they're your children, but they

00:46:14followed in your footsteps by going to Howard university as well. And both, both sons graduated.

00:46:20Yes. Yes. They both graduated. Yeah. Well, my sons, uh, there was, that was never a, an issue. Um,

00:46:30they're smart. They are very independent and they actually made my life very, very easy. I have to say

00:46:40as a mom, very, very easy. Yeah. Knock on wood. Cause they were, they were good, good boys. Um,

00:46:49and for them to go to Howard, not just ask my boys, Hey, where do you want to go to

00:46:54school?

00:46:55They're like, do we have a choice? Of course you have a choice. Who'd you have a choice? Howard,

00:47:00you know, but, um, no, they, and they loved it. And it's just, Howard is one big family.

00:47:06And now to go back and then go back with them as a long as it's great. It's wonderful. And

00:47:12then my son

00:47:13said today, my youngest said, he said, my children are going to Howard. They don't have a choice. They're

00:47:18going.

00:47:21That's one thing I can say about like, um, Howard knowing from what I've known from the outside

00:47:26where it's like so many people went to Howard because of their parents and denying their children

00:47:32are going. And it's always been like a family thing. And even though Howard was one of the schools

00:47:37I was thinking about going to, my only regret is not leaving New York city at all, even for school.

00:47:44Um, and I actually, well, I had Syracuse and Howard and one of the schools that I wanted to go

00:47:51to,

00:47:52but like I said, you can't, you can't look back, you go and look ahead. But I, the thing I

00:47:56do know

00:47:56about people that have gone to Howard, um, is that, that feeling of togetherness and just,

00:48:05like I said, a lot of people that worked with in the industry, but from Howard to a point where

00:48:10some

00:48:10people thought I went to Howard, not because they saw me, but because I'm around everyone

00:48:15else who's from Howard. And I'm like, no, I never went to Howard. I've only been here a couple of

00:48:19times and this and that and the other, but I, I always appreciate it.

00:48:23It's just so lovely and we embrace everyone. So it's just like, oh, if you're hanging around the

00:48:27Howard family, you're part of the Howard family. That's just how we are.

00:48:31Unless you, unless you're from Hampton, then I think the trouble comes in. No.

00:48:37So we're the real, right. But what are some of the, what are some of the benefits that you actually,

00:48:44you know, even before I, before I ask that question, what are some of the qualities,

00:48:50not you specifically, because you're, you're ready to have, what's some of the qualities you feel

00:48:54makes a successful attorney, specifically in entertainment, because every field has this,

00:49:01you know, whatever, but entertainment is definitely, entertainment and sports. I know are definitely

00:49:06like a make or break. It's a special, they specialize areas of law. So it's, and that's, and that was

00:49:13the

00:49:14thing to be able to make it, not just as a lawyer, but in a specialized field where so many

00:49:19attorneys

00:49:21want to try their hand at it or try the hand at it. And it just didn't work out for

00:49:25them.

00:49:27But for me, I'm not saying that they weren't determined. But for me, I just wasn't going to

00:49:34stop. My, my thought process is always, there's a will, there's a way. And I also think my background

00:49:44was helpful. I went to a performing arts high school. I have an ear for music. We studied music. We

00:49:49had to

00:49:50listen to records and talk about all the different instruments that were being played. We had to be

00:49:56able to identify the sounds. So yeah, I have an ear for music. So I have an ear for talent.

00:50:03So when I

00:50:03hear somebody, they don't have to, my clients start out small. All of them started out small without a

00:50:09name. Well, I should say the majority of them started out without a name. And it's like, wait a minute,

00:50:14you're talented. Of course, I want to work with you. Oh, well, I don't have any money to pay.

00:50:18It's okay. We're going to work it out. We'll help you make a lot of money.

00:50:21We're going to make some money together. We're going to make some money.

00:50:24Yeah. So I was able to identify talent and say, I'm going to work with you and I'm going to

00:50:29help you.

00:50:30And then the rest is history. So just having that ear for, for music is helpful. And secondly,

00:50:41as attorneys, we're counselors at law, right? You have to learn, you have to know how to

00:50:45counsel someone. Someone's coming to you. They talk to you about their situation, their problems.

00:50:50You have to be able to listen. You have to be a good listener. And it's not about me. It's

00:50:54about

00:50:54the client, right? And give good sound advice. So I do that a lot. I counsel my clients a lot.

00:51:03And you have to be one who pays attention to detail and in concern of what, what does your

00:51:11client want? It's not about me. I'm the lawyer here, right? I'm here to help this transaction

00:51:15go through. So I'm here to make a deal happen on behalf of my client's interest. It's not about my

00:51:23interest. I may not approve of the deal terms, but it's not about me. It's about the client.

00:51:31What does my client want? And at the end of the day. So if you understand what's important here

00:51:41and who you're representing and you work under those interests, then you'll be successful. Because

00:51:52what I've seen in my practice is some attorneys throw themselves into it and it's all about them.

00:52:00And it's like, this is ridiculous. You know, it's like, my goodness, this, they act like it's their

00:52:07deal. You know, it's the client's deal. It's not your deal. You're just basically the voice of the

00:52:13client. But why are you, why are you, you going overboard? You know, it's, you have to know how to

00:52:19talk to

00:52:20people. You have to know how to establish relationships, how to, you know, foster,

00:52:26how to foster relationships and see things through, right? Your client is hiring you

00:52:36to make something happen. And if it's not going to go through, it's not going to go through

00:52:43because the client didn't want to go through, not because the lawyer didn't want to go through.

00:52:47You got to always remember who's interests of being represented here. And I think sometimes some

00:52:55lawyers lose that in the process and they make it all about them.

00:53:04I would even, I would even predict that most in the field that we're in based on what the stories

00:53:11I've heard and the people I know, but I don't want to, you know, make, yeah. And I've never,

00:53:17because for a long time I've been in the background, you know, this was like people that,

00:53:21oh, I heard of, heard of Bernie, but I don't know her because I'm not, you know, it's, it's not

00:53:26about

00:53:28me. It's about the client. It's always about the client. It's not about me at all.

00:53:33I know someone respects me for the work that I do. Great. But it's not about me. It's never about

00:53:39me.

00:53:40So, so, so I have a question because I know it's happened and I don't care if you don't admit

00:53:46it,

00:53:47but what, what, what, what happens when a client wants to do something and you advise them against it,

00:53:54but they're so like, I need this. So I got to get this deal. And it's like,

00:54:00either you could do better or the terms could be better. Like, but then, yeah, well, yeah, sure.

00:54:06And that's happened. You're right. Um, I don't put my name on that paper. I don't want my paper on

00:54:11that paper. No, cause at the end of the day, you want to, you know, bad deals. Like, oh,

00:54:15they were, who's the lawyer that did that deal? I don't want my name on that paper.

00:54:25No, no, no, that's admirable. The reason why I said I didn't expect that answer because I know

00:54:31sometimes, sometimes it's not about the money for me. My reputation is much more important. So I gotta

00:54:42protect my reputation. Hey, Bernie gets you paid. That's the word on the street, right?

00:54:51I'm surprised only because I know some attorneys who have been with their clients for years

00:54:58and they, they would tell me like, you know, we had this deal, told them not to,

00:55:03nothing I could do, but I'm representing my client as opposed to your mindset of like,

00:55:08I'm not going to put my name on this deal because, which is definitely in my mind, more respectful,

00:55:13because like you said, your name is still going in that contract, even if it's not for you or it

00:55:18doesn't hurt you. But I've heard some attorneys say, I, I, you know, I was 99% against this,

00:55:25but you know, he kept stressing and like you would walk away. Yeah. I don't want to be a part

00:55:31of it.

00:55:31No, I'm not doing it. It's not about, I get it. It's not about the money for me.

00:55:36And I've seen it happen. And I just thought, look, you're trying to find if you can find other

00:55:42representations. That's true. I'm not, I'm not doing it. No, no way.

00:55:48If you're going to have Bernie's signature on, it means that it's a great deal. Gotcha. No regrets.

00:55:54Cool. No regrets.

00:55:57Um, like I said, I don't want to take up too much of your time. Is there anything you have

00:56:00going on

00:56:01or that you have coming up that you'd like to discuss?

00:56:03And then another thing I wanted to say, we talk about great deal. That term is all relative,

00:56:10right? Cause you have to always consider where the client is at the time that they did the deal.

00:56:14That's true.

00:56:15Right. So you have to keep things in perspective when it comes to these deals. Oh, someone just

00:56:20starting out, trying to get their foot in the door. They're going to take a certain type of deal

00:56:24because they're just trying to get their foot in the door. Right. Um, so you have to be mindful of

00:56:30that

00:56:32and in terms of how you negotiate in the types of, in the terms that you get and you can't

00:56:37come in thinking you have no leverage and then you're going to get the world. This just doesn't work

00:56:41out. Yeah. Yeah. Like I was saying, is there anything that, you know, we can look forward

00:56:48to? Cause I'm pretty sure you're always working on something, but is there anything that you'd like

00:56:52to discuss or can discuss? Because I know, especially with attorneys, you all are so secret, secretive,

00:56:58because you have to be, you know, if you're not secretive, then you might not be a good attorney,

00:57:03but let me stop. Um, is there anything that you, or, you know, even a better question.

00:57:07Is there anything that you want to do in the future, whether it's tomorrow, whether it's in

00:57:1210 years, is there anything that you look forward to saying that you want to do open a restaurant,

00:57:18um, fly a plane? Like, is there anything that comes to mind or that that's on your mind?

00:57:24Yeah. I was actually thinking about it. I was thinking about a judgeship becoming the judge.

00:57:32Wow. You know, the funny thing is as a little girl that was

00:57:38like impossible, like how in the world would I become a judge? Like what a judge that could

00:57:45never happen. Yeah. I just, that did not, I didn't see that at all, but today all things are possible.

00:57:52We got a black woman on the Supreme court. So yeah, you're definitely right. You know,

00:57:57maybe that's the next one. No.

00:57:59Okay. And also I got to fit in my book. I got a book 2026.

00:58:07Okay. I'm just in the editing phase right now. So look out for that.

00:58:13We'll talk about that then as well, but I do appreciate your time because I'm pretty sure when,

00:58:19when, when I hang up, you'll have some other deal that needs to be, you know, worked on,

00:58:24you know, because, because the world doesn't stop. I'm always working on deals.

00:58:30Always working on deals. Yeah. I got a few pub deals right now.

00:58:36Well, what I, what I want to say in closing is that, um, you were definitely one of the people

00:58:41that I've always thought about speaking to when I decided to do this on a more regular basis.

00:58:47And because, um, every time, like I said, every time I look up, you're like getting a key to the

00:58:53city. You're, you know, somebody just gifted you a boat. Now, let me stop.

00:58:59But I, and, and I think that, um, unlike a lot of our peers, even going back from high school,

00:59:06college, or even in the industry, I'm always proud of the people that I'm actually cool with,

00:59:13or who I've done things with, because even if I'm not able to do something or I'm not doing anything,

00:59:19I've never liked when people didn't like, when I did something that was deemed successful,

00:59:23and I didn't do anything to the person. So I always make sure that, and that's, like I said,

00:59:28that's one of the reasons why I say, when I started doing these things again, I'm going to do it.

00:59:32I want to acknowledge the people that I feel that need to be acknowledged. Not that they're not

00:59:36acknowledged because as I stated before, you know, when we hang up, you might get another

00:59:41acknowledgement and I might look on the magazine and be like, damn, again? No. But I say all that

00:59:47to say that, um, I'm, I'm proud of everything you've done and all that you've become and look

00:59:53forward to everything else that you're about to do. And of course, every time I come to Atlanta,

00:59:59I always, you know, check for you anyway. So next time I come to Atlanta, I'm trying to come to

01:00:03Atlanta

01:00:03this year, actually, because, um, I usually go down there for Revolt. I didn't go out last year, but I

01:00:09think

01:00:09that, um, there's another conference that's in November. It'll come to me, but I'll definitely, you know,

01:00:17reach out to you before that. You'll probably be there getting the award anyway. But, um, as I stated,

01:00:23thank you once again. I appreciate, you know, our friendship. Like I said, we've been friends for years,

01:00:29and I'm always happy to see people doing well. And, um, oh, is there any way that anybody that's

01:00:39watching now that wants to get in touch with you that, you know, might be real talented or who may

01:00:44need somebody to lock down that great deal? Any social media or anything? Sure, sure. So, uh,

01:00:52you can reach out to me on IG at Bernie gets you paid this B-E-R-N-I-E

01:00:58-G-T-S-P-A-I-D,

01:01:02or I have another page called ask Bernie. And then we have a page for the law firm, which is

01:01:11B-L-W-A-P-C

01:01:13lawyers. Those are our three IG pages. I have a website at www.B-L-W-A-P-C.com.

01:01:23You can always

01:01:23reach out to us there, or you can reach out to me on LinkedIn.

01:01:30Once again, thank you, um, for, for your time, your friendship. And, um, I'm pretty sure like,

01:01:38you know, like I said, the next time we'll talk, you know, I'll have to speak to your peoples,

01:01:46who've got to speak to your people, your other people, your other peoples to get to you.

01:01:52I'm not, I'm not, I'm not that person, and I am really, you know, I'm just messing with you.

01:01:57But, but thanks once again, and to everyone that's tuned in, and for everyone that stayed to the end,

01:02:03or even came in, thank you for tuning in to my friends that are better than yours. And as you

01:02:07can

01:02:08see this, this one is definitely a great one. And if you think your friends are better than mine,

01:02:13I dare you to introduce, and I'm pretty sure that even they're either my friend already,

01:02:18or I'll prove you on. Until the next time, big said, then it's your co-sign, Bernie Lawrence Watkins,

01:02:25no, excuse me, Professor Bernie Lawrence Watkins, Esquire. Thank you once again.

01:02:32And pleasure.

01:02:34Can we help peoples? Yes.

01:02:37It's, come on, now if I can find this thing to end it. Okay, end.

01:02:57And that's your plate.

01:03:00Thank you all.

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