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00:00Hello and welcome to Catching Up with the Royals, the show that never complains but always explains.
00:05With me, Richard Coles.
00:07And me, Emily Andrews.
00:08On today's show, we're discussing King Charles' upcoming state visit to America
00:12and whether the monarch should pull out of his plans to spend time with Donald Trump.
00:16Do you think that the king is a sort of political asset in terms of our relationship with Trump's White
00:23House?
00:23Because if there's one person that President Trump does listen to, it's King Charles.
00:29And amid reports that Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie are being phased out of public-facing royal duties,
00:35we look at what's really going on behind the scenes at the palace as the firm decides what the future
00:39holds for the sisters.
00:41Should Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie lose their princess title?
00:45I don't know, it just makes me think of the Sopranos.
00:48But the sins of the parents shouldn't really be visited on the children.
00:51But the question is perhaps that did they, as adults, were they involved in poor decisions?
00:57Plus, with the fallout for the Prince Andrew scandal continuing to cast a shadow over the monarchy,
01:03we ask whether Harry and Meghan should consider a return.
01:08If their sort of options to create the life they want from their business interests are kind of narrowing down
01:13a little bit,
01:14then what is their role?
01:16I mean, some people have suggested that this is them advertising themselves to come back to the royal family.
01:30Welcome to Catching Up With The Royals, and we're going to talk about Commonwealth Day.
01:34Commonwealth Day, right?
01:36Commonwealth Day.
01:38There they were, Charles and Camilla, William and Catherine.
01:42Everybody's singing the national anthem except the king.
01:44That song he's sung all his life, he never gets to sing it now because they sing it to him,
01:47don't they?
01:47No, and there were some excellent curtsies from the Princess of Wales.
01:50She's a good curtsier.
01:51She's a good curtsier because when you see the monarch for the first time that day,
01:56you have to either bow or curtsy.
01:58And so she curtsied to the king and then kissed him.
02:02Actually, she kissed him and then curtsied.
02:03And then she waited until the queen caught her eye and then curtsied to the queen as well.
02:08What a pro.
02:09She is a pro, isn't she?
02:10I mean, I did feel that the Commonwealth Service, I mean,
02:12obviously was very important to the late queen as was the second.
02:15I wonder if it has as vibrant a future in the new regime as it did under the last one.
02:22I don't know.
02:22Well, it's a good question because those of us in the royal reporting world were kind of looking towards Monday
02:27as, you know, the first appearance of the senior royals since Prince Andrew's rest, etc, etc.
02:32And it was an opportunity for the pressure group Republic to vociferously protest outside Westminster Abbey.
02:40Richard is raising his eyebrows to heaven if you're listening to the podcast as opposed to watching him.
02:45Well, Republicans get a Republican, right?
02:47Republicans are going to Republican.
02:48And there was a lot.
02:49But what's been interesting is that they've been increasing in number and in volume at these things.
02:53I mean, famously at the coronation, they were arrested.
02:56But so it was a big day for the royals and big day, obviously, for the 14 other realms of
03:00the Commonwealth,
03:01whose representatives were also there, Prime Ministers, etc.
03:05But does anyone really care, Richard?
03:08Because it was important for the royals and important for the late queen.
03:11Does Janice in Yorkshire care?
03:13I care.
03:14But then I feel like J.R. Hartley fly fishing.
03:17I mean, I like these old sort of oldie worldie things.
03:19It's interesting as we look for a way of reintegrating ourselves into a world order that's been disrupted.
03:24I don't know lots of people thinking the Commonwealth might be.
03:27I think perhaps it belongs more to the power.
03:28Also, the whole sort of echo of empire in it doesn't really work now.
03:32I'm more interested in William and Catherine going off on their individual engagements.
03:39They were.
03:40They were separated.
03:41Well, because there aren't many senior royals left, are there?
03:44And so now they are actually, I think, next week doing an engagement together for the RNLI.
03:51But this last week, they devised and conquered.
03:57William went to Cornwall for St. Peter's Day, to celebrate St. Peter's Day.
04:00And Catherine went to Leicester.
04:03Interesting.
04:03It never occurred to me, because if you're running out of senior royals, you have to sort of spread them
04:07out a bit, right?
04:08Yeah, I think you do.
04:10Catherine visiting the gold mine in Leicester, ostensibly to celebrate Holy.
04:14They didn't fling the colours around.
04:16They fling the colours around.
04:17Not at her.
04:18Not at her.
04:19She was wearing white.
04:20I did think that was an interesting colour choice.
04:23But obviously, her team had prepped her that she was not going to have colour thrown at her.
04:28Because I've celebrated Holy.
04:30I mean, did you end up completely multicoloured?
04:33It's brilliant.
04:34All the dye and the paint.
04:35Yeah, that was not for Catherine in her white outfit.
04:38And you're joining the celebrations of Hindu people.
04:40You're joining the celebrations of people who live in Britain and come from different places.
04:43That's front and centre with William and Catherine, isn't it?
04:46It is.
04:46Well, but it is also with the king, with Charles.
04:49It's kind of continuing that thing.
04:50And then, obviously, in Cornwall, you had William doing something much more kind of being much more down with the
04:57people.
04:57Because there he was in a farm that makes traditional Cornish pasties.
05:03He actually made the Cornish pasties with one of the owners of the farm.
05:07And then he, this was all prearranged, by the way.
05:09He then went to go and he went to the counter where members of the public can come to the
05:12farm and buy the pasties.
05:14And he was selling the pasties.
05:15And then the phone rang.
05:17And he said to somebody, oh, shall I answer that?
05:19And they were like, yeah, okay, go ahead.
05:20I mean, I don't think this bit was prearranged.
05:22So he answered the phone.
05:23And a lady was worried that she wouldn't get enough pasties.
05:27She was ordering 15.
05:28And it was St. Pyrrind's Day.
05:29She was worried that they would sell out.
05:30And he's like, and he was taking her order.
05:33And he said, what's your name?
05:34And he, and you, you see the clip.
05:36It's very funny.
05:37He said, juicy, juicy.
05:38Oh, sorry, Josie.
05:40And then later on, Josie turned up to pick up her pre-ordered pasties and had not realised at all
05:45that she was on the phone to the heir of the throne.
05:47And actually said he was slightly incoherent.
05:49And she was worried that she was worried that she wouldn't get these pasties.
05:53But a pro moment, right?
05:54It was a very pro moment.
05:55But what I think is interesting is that, of course, it shows William as being just like one of us,
06:00Richard.
06:00He, too, can serve pasties to...
06:04Something for the blooper reel.
06:05Juicy.
06:06Absolutely juicy.
06:07A little bit for the blooper reel.
06:09A little bit for the social media.
06:10Juicy, Josie.
06:11I don't think that was contrived.
06:12But certainly the kind of those pictures and the images of him of being just like us, just one of
06:18us, selling the pasties.
06:20You sort of like, you compare and contrast that with Commonwealth Day.
06:25Very serious.
06:26Everybody on parade.
06:27I mean, which sort of royalty does...
06:30Well, William could do both, can't he?
06:31Well, I think that's it, isn't it?
06:32You need to be multi-skilled in this, I think.
06:35On the one hand, you've got to stand around in garter robes, looking like something in Gilbert and Sullivan.
06:39On the other hand, you've got to feel that you can connect with people because both actually are important.
06:44I've got a question for you.
06:45Does he get to eat the pasty?
06:47He does get to eat the pasty.
06:49He's a whole pasty.
06:50On camera, when I've seen him offered stuff or like, you know, he really likes cider.
06:55Prince William loves a pint of cider.
06:57I remember being at a cider farm with him in Cornwall and he was actually quite disappointed.
07:02He said, I'll just take a sip, you know, for the pictures.
07:05And then the guy said, oh, we'll send you home with something.
07:08He's like, brilliant.
07:08I love cider.
07:09So he will have a taste or a sip, a bit like, you know, King Charles.
07:13You'll often see him having a sip of a pint of Guinness if he's visited a factory, but only a
07:18sip or a taste.
07:18Because otherwise, if you ate all that pasty, what would happen?
07:21You'd be 26 stone.
07:22Exactly.
07:23And no one wants to see Prince William weigh 26 stone.
07:26But I also thought what was interesting was that Catherine, when she was in Leicester, she watched some pro Bollywood
07:32dancing, a very impressive dancing.
07:34But then later in the Hindu temple, she was invited to dance and she said, oh, go on then.
07:40Would she have been warned of that in advance?
07:42Would she?
07:43Probably.
07:44I always kind of, when you see those engagements.
07:46They can dance.
07:47Pardon?
07:48They can dance.
07:49Yes.
07:50I mean, I don't imagine the generation before would get much of a wiggle on, would they?
07:55I can't imagine the generation before 12.
07:58I can't imagine them 12.
07:59But you know what I mean?
07:59Maybe a tea dance.
08:01They'd have some moves, wouldn't they?
08:02I think, yes.
08:03I think William and Catherine can dance.
08:05But actually, did you know that Queen Camilla is quite a good dancer?
08:08I didn't know.
08:09She's part of Silver Swans.
08:10Oh.
08:11Yeah, Silver Swans, whereby it's an organisation that encourages older people, I'd include myself in that, to get more active
08:19by dancing.
08:20When we talk about these engagements, Richard, and are they pre-planned or not?
08:23When I see both of those engagements in Cornwall and in Leicester, both William and Catherine made, in my opinion,
08:31slightly pre-planned comments.
08:33So there you have William making the pasties.
08:35And he says, oh, I wish my wife was here.
08:37She'd be so much better at this than me.
08:39She's really good.
08:39I mean, I've heard him say that in capacities before when he's been making something or doing something arty, which
08:46obviously we know Catherine's a good cook and she's arty.
08:48And then Catherine in Leicester, with the dancing, she said, oh, my children would love this little, you know, particularly
08:53Louis.
08:54He loves dancing.
08:55Again, you often hear those kind of little comments from her about their children.
09:01And I do personally, I've never asked them, because even I would think that's a bit rude.
09:05But I do think that they have certain stock things that they may say when they go to these engagements,
09:11because obviously it humanises them and also the people that they're meeting.
09:16It's an immediate connection.
09:17Yeah, it's relatable.
09:18It's an immediate connection point.
09:19That's why William and Catherine are so important, because they are relatable to people who perhaps others don't relate to
09:25so well.
09:25Now, working royals, as we said, it's a dwindling number.
09:28Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie, no longer working royals.
09:32But, folks, question up to the break.
09:35They are no longer working royals, but they do have jobs.
09:39What are those jobs?
09:40Answer coming up in a bit.
09:47Welcome back to Catching Up with the Royals.
09:49We left you with that question.
09:51Princesses Eugenie and Beatrice, no longer working royals, but what jobs do they have?
09:55Because they do have jobs, and they're this.
09:57Beatrice is the Vice President of Partnerships and Strategy at AI software company Affinity, which is spelt all wrong.
10:05But then it's an AI company, so it does all that.
10:07Eugenie, by the way, is Director of the London Contemporary Art Gallery, Hauser & Wirth.
10:12Well, that's interesting, isn't it, Richard?
10:14Because Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie are really being drawn into more of the kind of Epstein-York fallout.
10:21And one of the ways in which they have is because of money.
10:26Have they profited from their parents' connections?
10:28I mean, it's interesting that Beatrice set up her own advisory firm, BY for Beatrice-York, EQ, which is advising
10:38high net worth individuals about tech.
10:40But it's interesting, wasn't it?
10:41I mean, my first instinct is to think, is it not the sins of the fathers, right?
10:46That any wrongdoing alleged, and of course wrongdoing is denied by Prince, formerly Prince Andrew, and indeed Sarah Ferguson.
10:53But the sins of the parents shouldn't really be visited on the children.
10:56But the question is perhaps that did they, as adults, were they involved in poor decisions?
11:02Is that the question?
11:03Yeah, because should they be held accountable for their parents' actions?
11:07Of course not.
11:08You can't be held accountable for other people's actions.
11:10It's completely unreasonable.
11:12Of course.
11:13You know, being mentioned in the Epstein files does not mean that Beatrice and Eugenie have done anything wrong.
11:18And of course, their father, Andrew, is denied all wrongdoing.
11:21But, you know, they are mentioned 300 times, Beatrice and Eugenie, in the Epstein files.
11:25Again, probably because Fergie has talked about them, right?
11:28You know, the girls are coming.
11:29Can you organise plane tickets for me and the girls?
11:31Family friends and all that.
11:32Exactly.
11:33He was a family friend.
11:35But I think contagion is a problem for the York sisters, as we said before.
11:41But it's more than that now.
11:42It's how much did they know?
11:44Because at this point, they were adults.
11:46And if Fergie's saying to her daughter, oh my goodness, this is awful.
11:51I, you know, Jeffrey's cut me off.
11:53He doesn't want to be my friend anymore because he thinks I've called him a paedophile.
11:55But actually, this is what happened.
11:57He's just been released from jail.
11:59I mean, are we really expecting them to not have any understanding in their 20s of what was going on?
12:05I mean, there are two things.
12:05One is, obviously, you can't be held accountable for other people's actions.
12:08But you are accountable for your own.
12:10That's a discussion to have.
12:11Of course, we don't know the rights and wrongs of that.
12:13The other one is a perception one.
12:16If I were, you know, doing comms for the monarchy, I probably wouldn't want to have the princesses,
12:22regardless of anything else, to be at the centre of things right now.
12:25I just think it starts a conversation which you don't really want to have.
12:29And if we're going to slim down the monarchy and make it leaner and fitter,
12:33then perhaps you keep them out of those shots.
12:36I don't know.
12:36Privately, part of the family, but publicly, perhaps less so.
12:39I don't know.
12:39I think you should get a job in royal comms, Richard.
12:43I'd be terrible.
12:44I think you should get a job in royal comms, or maybe as one of the advisors at BP.
12:47Because I, in my opinion, that's exactly what's happening.
12:50I think that privately, I've been, Beatrice and Eugenie have not cut contact with their parents.
12:54They are a very, very strong family unit.
12:57You know, there's interview after interview of Fergie saying what a strong family we are,
13:00how close we are, how great my daughters are, how great my husband, Andrew, is as a grandfather.
13:06On the other hand, we have seen the mood music from Buckingham Palace change.
13:13We have seen that initially it was Andrew and Fergie who were effectively cut off from last autumn.
13:20That changed, obviously, before then.
13:21They were kind of welcomed.
13:23Then Beatrice and Eugenie were still part of the family, invited to Christmas, invited to the events.
13:27Now the mood music from Buckingham Palace has changed.
13:29Now what Buckingham Palace are briefing, members of the royal family, the king, the queen, prince and princess of Wales,
13:37will not be seen publicly with Eugenie and Beatrice because of that contagion.
13:41Now, there was a story that Beatrice and Eugenie have been banned from Ascot this year.
13:45I don't think they've been banned.
13:46They can go in a personal capacity.
13:47It's just that parade and the royal bits of Royal Ascot, the parade, the carriage parade from a mile outside
13:55Ascot,
13:56the lunch at Windsor Castle beforehand, being in the royal box.
13:59I would be surprised if we saw Beatrice and Eugenie with senior members of the royal family.
14:06Literally on parade.
14:07Literally on parade.
14:09And even, I think it's slightly problematic for the king, if he invited Beatrice and Eugenie and their husbands to
14:15use the royal box,
14:17you know, say with Zahra and Mike Tindall when he wasn't there or when William and Catherine were.
14:21I think that's still a bit of a problem because it's sort of almost still giving them his blessing.
14:27So, and, you know, I just feel very sorry for the girls.
14:30I do feel sorry for them, actually, because...
14:32Yeah, me too, I think.
14:33It must be agonisingly difficult.
14:36Reports say that the sisters were blindsided.
14:39Which is kind of uninvited, or not invited.
14:41Not invited to Ascot.
14:43And, of course, there's other royal events that they would normally go to.
14:47For instance, Easter Sunday that's coming up at Windsor Castle.
14:50They are sometimes there.
14:52They're sometimes not there.
14:54But I think that were they to have been invited this year, they would have gone.
14:58I don't expect to see them at Windsor.
15:00Because I think privately, what's happening in public is that the monarchy has to put clear blue water between them
15:08and now also Beatrice and Eugenie, the House of York, all four of them.
15:12But I think what's happening in private is somewhat different because they're still members of the family, right?
15:16But I think also the kind of life they lead has such extraordinary pressures in it
15:21that who do you share that with apart from other people who know what that's like?
15:27I do think they need to sort of support each other just to get through their days, you know?
15:33Totally.
15:34And, you know, it's Mother's Day this Sunday.
15:36And I feel, I actually feel very sorry for Sarah on this particular aspect because she is a doting mum,
15:46a doting gran.
15:47She would want to spend Sunday with her daughters and her grandchildren.
15:51And she's still MIA, missing in action.
15:53I mean, the latest reports that she was seen at some spa hotel in Ireland, we've no idea where she
15:58is.
15:58If she has come back to the UK, she's kept a very low profile.
16:02And this, it must be very upsetting for her and indeed her daughters.
16:08Obviously, it's meant professional embarrassment for Eugenie as well, hasn't it?
16:13Because I think she stepped down from her role as patron of Anti-Slavery International,
16:16which is something she's given a lot of her time and attention for.
16:19They said, they made a statement saying,
16:21we're grateful for everything she's done, da, da, da, da.
16:23But I'm sensing that there would be a kind of boardroom decision about that.
16:26Yeah, I, I, my, my opinion would be that she was pushed.
16:29She didn't volunteer that she was pushed.
16:31She was asked to leave.
16:32The fallout from Epstein's story, which is just so horrible.
16:36It's so disgusting in its worst manifestations.
16:39It's just so contagious for everyone.
16:42And of course, anyone who's involved and culpable in that has to,
16:44has to face up to their responsibilities.
16:46But we don't know, do we?
16:48No, there's not enough.
16:50I think that's the problem, isn't it?
16:51I mean, we're only, even with the emails,
16:53we're only getting kind of snapshots of certain things in time.
16:56We haven't heard from Eugenie and Beatrice.
16:58We haven't heard from Fergie or Andrew.
17:00And some people are saying, you know, the girls,
17:02Beatrice and Eugenie should come out and publicly address the allegations.
17:06And that's just for the birds, because he has been arrested.
17:10This is now a criminal investigation.
17:11There's no way that the girls should be saying anything publicly,
17:14because they don't want to prejudice what is a criminal investigation.
17:17I think also as well, you have to understand that there is always going to be
17:20a tension between family obligations and wider obligations.
17:26It's always going to be tricky.
17:27Yeah.
17:28And I do feel very sorry for Beatrice and Eugenie,
17:30because I think behind the scenes, they have, yeah, behind the scenes,
17:34I'm told that, you know, Catherine, the Princess of Wales,
17:37has reached out to them.
17:38As you would expect, they're still members of the family.
17:41And there's been some reports that Beatrice and Eugenie
17:44always hated Catherine and saw her as a, I mean, that's just wrong.
17:48Not a little bit of a head.
17:48Yeah, not a little bit of a head.
17:50Always hated, you know, girly, girly rivalry.
17:53I hate that kind of clickbait stuff.
17:55And then some, you know, some old footage of Ascot was brought up
17:59to suggest that Beatrice and Catherine didn't get on.
18:02I mean, it's just, I just think it's rubbish.
18:04But everything that I've always been told is that, yes, you know,
18:07Eugenie and Harry were close.
18:08And some members of the family felt that, you know,
18:10sides were taken after 2020.
18:12But actually, Eugenie and Beatrice have always got on well
18:15with pretty much everyone in the family.
18:17And certainly there's no way that the Prince and Princess of Wales
18:20would have ridden in a carriage at Ascot with Eugenie,
18:23Beatrice's husband, and Beatrice back in 2023,
18:26if there was anything apart from friendship between the women.
18:30I can see, though, that William, who gets on very well
18:33with Beatrice and Eugenie, but particularly,
18:36I understand that Beatrice and Eugenie,
18:38I can understand that William is able to separate William the Cousin
18:44from William the Enforcer, Prince of Wales.
18:48I can understand that William may want to draw a harder line
18:54in terms of the princess's public persona.
18:57What do you think?
18:58I don't know, it just makes me think of The Sopranos or Succession.
19:04It's like what happens when sort of dynastic matters
19:07come and mess up family relationships.
19:10I mean...
19:11Well, it's such a shame, actually,
19:12because only 18 months, two years ago,
19:16William had asked Beatrice and Eugenie to come and help out
19:20at some of the garden parties,
19:21because Catherine couldn't come
19:23because she was still receiving treatment for cancer.
19:26So he specifically asked Mike and Zara,
19:30Eugenie and Beatrice, to come and help them out,
19:31and it was a riot.
19:32It was brilliant.
19:33They were a sporting cast and they were great.
19:35Should Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie
19:37lose their princess title?
19:38Well, I think that's an interesting question
19:40because they've both got lives of their own now.
19:42They've both got jobs, they've got families,
19:44they've got a life outside royal circles.
19:45I wonder if it might not be a smart thing
19:48to just follow the example that the Princess Royal set
19:51and just not dump these royal obligations,
19:55expectations and titles on children,
19:56maybe remove them.
19:57Because Mike and Zara can still come
19:59and help out at a Buckingham Palace garden party
20:01or do whatever, be in the monarch's birthday parade,
20:04but they don't have the titles.
20:06Yeah.
20:06Slightly more jovial tone now, Richard.
20:10Yes, indeed.
20:11I love it when you go jovial.
20:13I love it.
20:14And we've got a question for you before the break,
20:17but before I tempt you with our excellent question
20:20on the late Queen,
20:22don't forget you can catch up
20:24with Catching Up With The Royals every Thursday,
20:26wherever you get your podcasts.
20:27You can subscribe on YouTube
20:29and you'll get the latest episode.
20:31And we're on five on a Saturday
20:34if you want to see our faces, Richard.
20:36Lucky you.
20:37In all the technical...
20:38I know, maybe don't look too close,
20:39but we've got a question for you.
20:42The late Queen, Queen Elizabeth II.
20:44True or false?
20:45Yes, the late Queen invented a breed of dog.
20:48I know that Richard knows this.
20:50I know that Richard knows this.
20:51So I'm just going to gag him.
20:52We'll be back after the break.
20:58Welcome back.
20:59Before the break, I asked,
21:01because Richard knows the answer to this,
21:03true or false,
21:05Queen Elizabeth II invented a new breed of dog.
21:08And the answer is, Richard?
21:10Doggy.
21:11It is.
21:12It's true.
21:13One of her corgis accidentally mated
21:16with a dachshund belonging to Princess Margaret,
21:19who apparently was a bit frisky, Richard.
21:21And it created a new hybrid called a doggy,
21:25a dachshund-corgy cross.
21:27Queen Mother was very keen on them.
21:29She had fleets of them.
21:31Yeah, she did.
21:32I mean, it's really interesting,
21:33the history of corgis in the royal family,
21:35because when the Queen had her first one at seven,
21:38but it was...
21:39Yes, it was Susan.
21:40She got one at age 18,
21:42which was they got Dookie when she was seven.
21:45So-called because of the Duke of York.
21:47That's why he was named,
21:48or the breeder named him Dookie.
21:49And then at 18, she got Susan.
21:51But at that point, corgis were really unfashionable.
21:54Yeah.
21:54They had to get them from a Welsh breeder, I think,
21:56because they were cattle dogs.
21:57But then, of course, I mean,
21:58everybody wanted a corgi.
22:00Well, it's a rare breed now.
22:01I mean, the Pembrokeshire corgi,
22:02which is the royal one,
22:04is doing okay.
22:04But the Cardigonshire corgi,
22:06which is a slightly chunkier,
22:08usually brindled one,
22:09they're not doing so well.
22:11I don't want to break any embargoes.
22:14Can we get an exclusive on Catching Up With The Royals?
22:16Go on.
22:18I hear a little bird tells me
22:20that the late Queen is not the only fan of corgis.
22:24Yes, but this is a difficult moment
22:26because my partner Dickie has vetoed
22:28my plan to get a Cardigonshire corgi.
22:31Yeah, he's worried because he thinks it'll hurt the cat.
22:33So we're in negotiations with Nathan over the way,
22:35who's got two sausage dogs called Bangers in Georgia.
22:38You might be having a litter.
22:40Oh, so it's corgi.
22:41I was hoping you were going to tell everybody
22:43that you were going to get a corgi.
22:45Well, I'd love a corgi,
22:46but him indoors has put his book down.
22:47Has him indoors said no?
22:49Yeah.
22:49But you could get a sausage dog?
22:51Well, I've had loads of sausages.
22:52So my last two sausages,
22:56I shared with him and that was fine.
22:58Why would Dickie say yes to a sausage,
22:59but no to a corgi?
23:00Because I think it was his great aunt Pat
23:03had a nippy corgi.
23:04Oh.
23:05There's a bad history in the family over corgis.
23:09Oh, okay.
23:09He's a bit worried he's going to get nipped.
23:11I might just get one anyway.
23:13Do it.
23:14Just don't tell him.
23:15When he goes off on another tour.
23:17Anyway.
23:18He'd love a puppy.
23:19I mean, I love that corgi chat,
23:21Richard, or sausage dog chat.
23:23Can you update us, please, later?
23:24Keep us posted on pup, pup news,
23:28Cole's pup news.
23:29But to two other pups,
23:32Harry and Meghan.
23:33Now they've been in the news recently
23:34because they have been on a two-day trip to Jordan,
23:37fortunately,
23:38just before Trump started bombing Iran
23:41and then Iran started bombing the Middle East.
23:43And they have also announced a tour to Australia.
23:48And this comes on the back of some as-ever news.
23:52Now, as-ever is Meghan's brand of spread and chocolate.
23:57It's not jam.
23:58It's not jam.
23:59Not enough sugar to count as jam.
24:01Is that right?
24:01No, that's right.
24:02You're on it.
24:02You're on it.
24:03Absolutely right.
24:04So she's got to call it spread.
24:07And her brand of spread and alcohol, wine.
24:11She doesn't call it fizz, Richard.
24:14She calls it brute.
24:15I know.
24:16Is that an American thing?
24:17I don't know.
24:18No, you get it.
24:20Brut means dry.
24:21Brut means dry.
24:22You see it, don't you, on sparkly wine?
24:25Yeah, sparkly wine.
24:25It means...
24:26I've always been slightly confused
24:28why she calls it brute.
24:29But anyway.
24:29And chocolate,
24:30which Harry has been advertising on social media.
24:34She and Netflix have parted ways
24:36because Netflix invested in her as-ever brand,
24:41which we're going to talk about in a minute
24:43because I guess my question would be,
24:45are that Sussex is in trouble financially.
24:50But let's look at these two tours, visits,
24:55Australia and Jordan.
24:57They sound like royal tours.
24:59Yeah.
25:00Is that the point?
25:00I think that is kind of the point.
25:02I mean, some people have suggested
25:04that this is them advertising themselves
25:06to come back to the royal family.
25:08So their trip to Jordan was very much highlighted
25:12and headlined as a humanitarian trip.
25:15They were invited by the World Health Organization
25:18because, of course, this is not a royal tour.
25:20So they couldn't be invited by King Hussein
25:23and the government of Jordan.
25:24So they were invited by the WHO
25:26and they wanted to highlight
25:29Jordan's humanitarian response in the region,
25:32particularly after the conflict in Syria.
25:34On the trip in Jordan, it was a two-day trip.
25:36They visited the Zaatari refugee camp,
25:38one of the world's largest camps for displaced Syrians,
25:40and attended a roundtable with WHO officials
25:43and international aid groups
25:44to discuss healthcare for refugees
25:46and displaced communities.
25:48Interestingly, Richard,
25:49the British ambassador was at that roundtable.
25:52Oh, hello.
25:53Yeah.
25:54I mean, this sounds to me a bit like
25:55all those kind of rival heavyweight belt things.
25:59You say you're which heavyweight champion?
26:00It's almost as if there's a kind of alternative
26:02royal tour happening here.
26:05And as you say, British ambassador was present.
26:07That suggests some kind of formal recognition.
26:09I don't know.
26:10That's interesting, isn't it?
26:11Because I'm not sure how well they would mesh
26:15into that broader project.
26:17I was interested that the British ambassador was there
26:19and he actually spoke to journalists.
26:21They took one journalist from the press association with them
26:26and who, well done, Alan,
26:29made a beeline for the British ambassador
26:30to try and get some words out of the British ambassador.
26:31And the British ambassador said,
26:32oh, no, he publicly thanked them
26:34at the roundtable for coming
26:35and said it was great that they were there.
26:37And I thought, oh, steady.
26:39Because to all intents and purposes,
26:41we know this is not a royal tour,
26:43but it looked exactly like a royal tour.
26:46Humanitarian, tick.
26:48Meghan looking like Princess Diana in her khaki outfit, tick.
26:53British ambassador.
26:54British ambassador, tick.
26:54Formal recognition.
26:56Formal recognition, tick.
26:58Visiting a Burns victim, poor girl,
27:02in a hospital bed, holding her hand, tick.
27:05Worthy causes, tick.
27:06Refugees, tick.
27:09Apolitical, their spokesman said
27:11that they were neither pro-Palestinian nor pro-Israeli
27:15because obviously that, you know,
27:16when you go to the Middle East,
27:17you have to make that very clear that you're apolitical.
27:19So apolitical, tick.
27:20We're just here to help, tick.
27:23So it did have all those kind of hallmarks of a royal tour.
27:27If their sort of options to create the life they want
27:30from their business interests
27:31are kind of narrowing down a little bit,
27:34then what is their role?
27:36It seems to me that there are two separate,
27:37two entirely, almost opposite things.
27:39On the one hand, you know,
27:40kind of exploiting your brand
27:42to provide you with the life that you wish to lead.
27:45But then on the other hand,
27:46you're also trying to kind of go back
27:48towards something that you left.
27:50I don't know how that would work.
27:51No, and some people sort of say,
27:52oh, you know, they're just cosplaying the royals.
27:55They're just, you know,
27:55they're just trying to be more royal than the royals
27:58or they're trying to go back to where they were.
28:00And I think this will be when they go to Australia,
28:02which is the end of next month.
28:06I mean, blimey, Richard,
28:08if it clashes with the King and Queen's visit to America,
28:11that will be problematic.
28:14And I'm...
28:14They must, someone must phone somebody.
28:17Yeah, so I spoke to William and a very,
28:22I spoke to...
28:24Sources closed.
28:25Sources closed.
28:26I mean, I spoke to a member of Meghan and Harry's team yesterday,
28:28just ahead of our record, you know,
28:30just to get the latest information
28:32and what Meghan and Harry are doing,
28:33because certainly their tour to Jordan
28:36was announced just literally an hour or two hours
28:40after we'd recorded.
28:41And so I spoke to a close member of their team
28:45and he said, well, look, you know,
28:48they're going to Australia.
28:48It's only for a couple of days.
28:49It felt to me as if it was quite business focused
28:54because the impression that I got was that Harry was just going for a bit of a holiday.
28:58I mean, why not go to, you know, Oz and do a bit of surfing?
29:01I mean, I even joke, he's going to do a bit of surfing, maybe.
29:03The children aren't going, but their team do tell Buckingham Palace
29:10when they are going to go abroad.
29:12But I mean, I asked how much notice was given
29:14and I really wouldn't expect us to go into that.
29:17But my inference was that it would be a couple of days notice, a week.
29:21So we're not talking about planning here.
29:23We're just saying a courtesy call.
29:24No, it's a courtesy call.
29:25And in fact, in the past, when William, Prince William was in Brazil
29:30last at the end of last year doing Earthshot,
29:34apparently Buckingham Palace emailed Kensington Palace,
29:38or there was communications between the teams,
29:40to tell William's team that Harry was in Canada
29:46visiting members of the armed forces.
29:48And the email didn't even get through.
29:49Or literally, it was an hour's notice.
29:51Obviously, with Australia, we know,
29:54so Buckingham Palace at least know as well.
29:56I don't want to disparage any of the humanitarian stuff
29:58that any of them do, because it's all sort of really valuable.
30:01But it strikes me that when Harry and Meghan are doing that,
30:03they're kind of moving back into the territory
30:06that they chose to leave.
30:08And there is a bit of confusion around that.
30:10Could they contribute to this new-look monarchy
30:14that seems to be Prince William's ambition now?
30:18I mean, just saying that sounds so unlikely, doesn't it?
30:22Could Harry and Meghan save the monarchy?
30:24Is that what you're asking me, Richard?
30:26But I've heard it sort of suggested
30:28perhaps they could be part of this recuperation of the monarchy.
30:31I just don't imagine how that would happen.
30:34No, absolutely.
30:34And some people have said,
30:36we need Harry and Meghan.
30:37They'd be brilliant.
30:38They'd reinvent the royal brand.
30:40I mean, look, I would say that Harry and Meghan were great
30:44at public-facing royal engagements.
30:47I was on that tour with them in Australia in 2018.
30:51They were brilliant.
30:52They are great.
30:53You know, she's great.
30:54He's great.
30:55They're brilliant at making those personal interactions very quickly.
30:59You know, you can see that when you watch footage of them.
31:03He is his mother's son.
31:04He's father's son as well.
31:05But he is brilliant, Harry.
31:07You know, there used to be a hashtag, hashtag Harry with kids.
31:10He's brilliant with children.
31:12She's very good, in my opinion, when I've watched her on engagements, Meghan,
31:18of being, listening, asking the right questions, being very engaged.
31:25I remember in Australia she baked banana bread when we went to the Outback
31:29because she wanted those sort of small things that she can do.
31:32She wanted to show that she really cared.
31:35But, I mean, obviously behind the scenes it was a bit different,
31:38but we're not going to go into that right now.
31:40Behind the scenes, I mean, it was quite tricky.
31:43Well, it was tricky behind the scenes, Richard,
31:44because people didn't know whether she would turn up or if she was going to come.
31:48Oh, yeah, I know.
31:49What time, whether she was going to turn up, was she going to come,
31:51was she not going to come?
31:52Hollywood behaviour.
31:53Well, it was quite, I think it was quite tricky.
31:56Yes, it was quite tricky.
31:58But, but, in front of the camera, Richard, she was brilliant.
32:01I thought they looked great when they got married.
32:03I thought, this is great.
32:04This is exactly the way you would want to, you know, it's Harry,
32:07it's marrying a woman with mixed heritage,
32:09marrying someone who comes from abroad.
32:11The messaging, I thought, was really good.
32:13Of course, it didn't end up so well.
32:17No, I thought they were brilliant as members of the royal family.
32:20And so I can see that when they were in Jordan,
32:25doing very good stuff.
32:28And I think, and drawing attention to the great work
32:31that the World Health Organisation does and World Central Kitchen.
32:35But I agree, I cannot see them returning
32:39to become full-time working royals.
32:43But, but I do worry slightly about money, Richard.
32:48I mean, I worry about money all the time, don't we all?
32:50Cost of living, crisis, and all that.
32:52But if you just, just, you know, on the, on your fingers,
32:55if you kind of try to add up what their annual bill must be
32:59to live the way they live.
33:00Well, I did.
33:01Oh, and what did it come to?
33:02Well, look, I have to preface this.
33:04This is just guesstimates, right?
33:06Because Harry and Meghan are not inviting us in to their royals.
33:09No, forensic accountants.
33:10To their, they're not getting forensic accountants in.
33:12It's like Emily Andrews, here you go, have my figures.
33:15But I worked out that, roughly speaking,
33:18their lifestyle costs them about £5 million a year.
33:22That is a lot of fruit spread.
33:24It's a lot of fruit spread.
33:25That Meghan needs to sell, right?
33:27You know, they have this big deal with Netflix,
33:29multi, multi, multi-million dollar deal with Netflix.
33:31But that was a structured deal.
33:33And it's not paying out as it used to.
33:35Is that right?
33:36Yeah, no, that's right.
33:36So what happened was that came to an end last year.
33:39And we don't know how much money they received.
33:41I mean, again, all these headline figures were banded around,
33:43but we don't actually know.
33:45And what happened last year was that that came to an end.
33:47And Netflix said they'd have a, I mean,
33:50they'd have a first look deal with Harry and Meghan,
33:52which effectively meant that anything that Harry and Meghan produced,
33:55Netflix would look at first.
33:56But there was no money involved.
33:59But there was a documentary premiered at the end of last year
34:04called Cookie Queen at the Sundance Festival.
34:08And Harry and Meghan put their name onto that.
34:11And they spent time promoting Cookie Queens.
34:13It's about Girl Scouts in America making cookies to sell for charity.
34:17But that hasn't been picked up by or bought by any streamer.
34:21And there are two films outstanding that Harry and Meghan kind of signed
34:25to the Archwell slate, two books that they're adapting.
34:29They still have not got a production team or producer.
34:33So I would be quite worried, actually, if I were Harry and Meghan's accountant,
34:40because the latest news is that Netflix, who obviously that deal came to an end,
34:48they invested in, as ever, Meghan's brand.
34:53And now...
34:54As ever is the name of the brand.
34:55Yes, as ever is the name of the brand.
34:56And now that investment has finished.
35:00And I'm going to ask you...
35:01As never.
35:01As never.
35:02Oh, I love that.
35:03As never.
35:04You heard it here first.
35:06Copyright as catching up with the Royals.
35:08I'm going to ask you a question, Richard.
35:10When I spoke to a close member of Harry and Meghan's team this week,
35:15and I said, right, I checked a few things with him.
35:18Facts.
35:19I like facts, Richard.
35:20And I said, right, okay, then.
35:22This whole Netflix thing.
35:24Give me your spin.
35:25Give me your PR.
35:26Give me your PR spin about the whole...
35:28And he said, well, Emily.
35:29He said, oh, you know, it's great.
35:31You know, it's great.
35:31You know, we're so thankful for Netflix for their time.
35:34But, you know, as ever, it just didn't really...
35:36It just didn't...
35:37We've got really big plans.
35:38We want to go for global expansion.
35:40Netflix aren't really used to this kind of thing.
35:42And I was like, hang on a sec.
35:43They've got merchandise for things like, you know, Squid Game and Bridgerton,
35:47which has sold loads.
35:48And they've got a standalone store, Netflix, in America,
35:51which Meghan's products were never included in, by the way.
35:54And I said, so actually, they are used to it.
35:57No, no, this was...
35:57That's just spin-off.
35:58That's a side hustle, I quote.
36:00That's a side hustle for them, as ever.
36:02We're much bigger.
36:03What do you think of that, Richard?
36:06I think that sounds like the sort of thing you would pay someone to say.
36:11Well, now we're going to go to a break.
36:13Don't forget, you can catch up with Catching Up With The Royals.
36:15Every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts from.
36:18And you can find us on YouTube, if you want to.
36:22Or on...
36:22Don't forget to subscribe.
36:24Yes, you've got to subscribe.
36:25Click and subscribe, whatever that means.
36:27And then also on five, you can do that on Saturdays.
36:31So many ways of doing it.
36:32I've got a quick...
36:33We've been talking about...
36:34Imagine, there you are at a Royal Banquet,
36:36and some of Meghan's lovely spread is on your scorn and everything.
36:41Cream first.
36:41Cream.
36:42I was about to say cream or jam first.
36:43Well, it depends whether he's being Duke of Cornwall or not, doesn't it?
36:45Anyway, it doesn't matter that.
36:47But here's the question.
36:49What makes everyone stop eating at a Royal Banquet?
36:53When do you stop?
36:55Answer coming soon.
37:00Welcome back to Catching Up With The Royals.
37:02We left you with the question,
37:03when, if you're at a Royal Banquet, do you know it's time to stop chomping?
37:07Well, the answer is whenever the monarch stops.
37:10So when the monarch, whoever that is, stops and puts their knife and fork in the finished position,
37:14it's six o'clock or four o'clock,
37:16then you've got to stop eating too, even if you're only halfway through your beef burger.
37:21But did you know that often, that usually the monarch makes sure that he or she, obviously,
37:27they don't put their knives and forks together,
37:30and they eat very slowly during state banquets, precisely for that reason.
37:33Oh, so no one feels that they could do it.
37:35No one feels that they have to...
37:37Imagine if you were a fast eater, and everyone else was a slow eater would be a nightmare.
37:41I know.
37:42Well, they're too busy hobnobbing with the heads of state next to them, so...
37:45Well, a lot of dining in this Royal Lark, isn't there?
37:48A lot of banqueting, a lot of junketing.
37:50There is.
37:51And we've had a question, talking about state visits,
37:54we have had a question from Tony,
37:56and he asks us,
37:59could Trump's love of the royals actually help to talk some sense into him over his war with Iran?
38:06And this is about the upcoming state visit of the King and Queen to America at the end of April,
38:14the end of next month.
38:15I know to say Davey, leader of the Liberal Democrats,
38:18has said that they should not go as a sort of protest about what America's getting up to at the
38:23moment in the Middle East.
38:24And I get the reason for that.
38:26But I think you should go,
38:27because this is a visit to celebrate the 250th anniversary of the United States of America.
38:32It's not something...
38:33It's not about Trump.
38:34It's about the United States of America, our closest and one of our oldest allies.
38:38And I think it's very important that we keep that relationship in mind,
38:42because Trump's not going to be there forever.
38:44The MAGA moment will pass, but America will still be there, and we'll still be there.
38:47So I think a long game.
38:49Yeah, I think that's absolutely right.
38:50And I think actually the US ambassador, our US, our ambassador to the US,
38:55and senior sort of foreign office diplomats very much say the same.
39:00The music from them is that this is a longstanding 250-year anniversary,
39:05250 years of our special relationship.
39:06Didn't get off to a great start, remember?
39:08Didn't get off to a great start.
39:10Didn't they chuck our tea in the water and then told us to get lost?
39:13Yeah, there was a frank exchange of views.
39:15There was a frank exchange of views, and then they got rid of our monarchy.
39:18So it's quite ironic, really, isn't it, that the president wants our monarch to go over
39:23to kind of bless their independent celebrations.
39:26Do you think that the king is a sort of political asset
39:29in terms of our relationship with Trump's White House?
39:33Absolutely. I think that when you have someone in the White House, a personality like Trump,
39:40he loves the royal family.
39:42And we had the prime minister speak to Trump for the first time on the phone on Sunday.
39:48They've had some difficult conversations.
39:50They've had some difficult conversations.
39:51Apparently, you know, that the president was only after information.
39:55How is the king? How is the king?
39:57How is my friend the king?
39:58But I think it is slightly.
40:00So, yes, of course, the king, a visit by the king and queen is a very important tool
40:06in the government's armory.
40:08But I mean, how many times can we play this?
40:10I mean, I suppose we can play Prince.
40:11We can use Prince William.
40:13He, the World Cup, is across North America, Mexico in the summer.
40:17As patron of the Football Association, it's likely that he will go.
40:21It won't be a state visit, but Trump won't care because it'll be another member.
40:25He loves Prince William.
40:26And if Princess Catherine goes even better,
40:28you've got a prime minister who knows that we have to keep that special relationship going.
40:33Well, it's been a reciprocal relationship.
40:35We've known that we've always stood up for the US
40:37and the expectation of hope the US would stand up for us.
40:39I don't think that's a cert anymore.
40:42Charles went to Canada for literally 24 hours with the Queen last year
40:46to open the Canadian Parliament as a sign, a very visible sign,
40:51to President Trump, who'd already talked about annexing Canada,
40:54you know, back in your box.
40:55Because if there's one person that President Trump does listen to, it's King Charles.
41:00But when you say listens to him,
41:02does that mean that Prince Charles can influence his political thinking?
41:05Or does it just mean that he's a bit in love with him?
41:06It's a bromance.
41:07Well, I don't know if it's a two-way bromance,
41:10but Trump seems to be particularly charmed by the King.
41:12Well, I mean, does President Trump listen to anyone?
41:15I mean, that would be my question.
41:17But I think as much as Trump listens to anyone,
41:21he would and does seem to with the King because he views the King as special.
41:27He views Prince William as special.
41:29And because they're royal, they can seemingly do no wrong.
41:33I mean, obviously, we know that he loves Scotland because his mum was Scottish.
41:36And he has this kind of veneration for the institution of the royal family.
41:41But he's certainly, I think Charles is certainly in a better position than Starmer.
41:46And also because Charles doesn't, as head of state as our monarch,
41:50Charles doesn't have to make these decisions about whether to offer UK air bases to US airplanes.
41:57And so he has that sort of, you know, sort of, he can stay one step removed,
42:04that level of distance, doesn't he?
42:05So that he can kind of do the glad-handing and the charming.
42:08It's one of the reasons, I think the Republic wouldn't like me saying this particularly,
42:12but that's fine, they can have their opinion, I can have mine.
42:14It's one of the reasons why it's good not to have a politically elected head of state
42:19is it does give you a bit of distance between the executive's decisions and state interests, you know?
42:23Totally. And that's, I think, really why the royal family is so successful on the foreign stage,
42:30because they can always say, well, we're apolitical.
42:32We're not this, we're not that, we're not that party, we're not representing.
42:35We're representing the interests of the country, not of a political party.
42:39But any politician from any, you know, political party would always be, have that,
42:44you know, always have that connotation, wouldn't they?
42:47Yeah, of course, they are political, they're by very definition political,
42:50but they're not party political. That's the difference, isn't it?
42:52Exactly.
42:53Don't forget, if you have any questions that you would like Richard and I to answer,
42:58please do email royals at spirit-studios.com and we will endeavour to answer your questions.
43:07That's all for today from the show that always explains, never complains.
43:12See you next Thursday.
43:13Have a great week. Bye.
43:23Bye.
43:24Bye.
43:26Bye.
43:39Bye.
43:39You
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