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00:00Hello and welcome to Catching Up With The Royals, the show that never complains but always explains.
00:05Today we are looking into when the worlds of royalty and showbiz collide.
00:11I thought this guy had looked a bit familiar. It was Leonardo DiCaprio and he was really nervous.
00:19We'll be tuning in to some of the best and worst on-screen adaptations of royal life
00:23and finding out what the royal family really feel about being portrayed on screen.
00:28There's no secret, the royal family hated the crown.
00:30This is not documentary, this is not history, it's TV drama.
00:35Plus, as awards season gets going, we thought we'd roll out the red carpet for our very own royal awards.
00:42I hate to say this, it would be a very dark drama, but it's the fall of the House of
00:45York.
00:46Really?
00:46I think if I were Hollywood and I were looking for a script at the moment, that's the one that
00:50would get to the top of my pile.
00:56Well, you know, a lot of handing out cups and stuff, isn't it, if you're a royal?
01:00The awards season, of course, is on us. You look like you're dressed for the BAFTAs.
01:03And if you were going to the BAFTAs, you'd meet Prince William because that's one of his things, isn't it?
01:07I would. In fact, actually, I have covered the BAFTAs quite a few times because, obviously, he's president.
01:13William took over from Richard Attenborough.
01:15I mean, if you're going to something like that, I just love the thought of them sitting down and all
01:19of a sudden the crown comes up, is nominated for awards.
01:22And if you have to adopt a particularly kind of frozen face when that, well, it was said to be
01:27very controversial, especially when the crown, it was 10 years ago, wasn't it, this year that it first aired?
01:31But, you know, it did get close to, well, through the story of Charles and Diana in particular, close to
01:37people who are still alive and still perhaps wounded as a consequence of that.
01:41It was tricky.
01:41Well, there's always been a fascination, hasn't there, with portraying the royals as people.
01:47And I think when their lives are dramatised, that's always what the scriptwriters and the dramas want to do.
01:52And there's been lots of examples of the royals on screen.
01:56I think one of my favourite, actually, is Spitting Image, because, obviously, not just the royals get lampooned.
02:01And interestingly, apparently, the late Queen did used to quite enjoy a little bit of Spitting Image, maybe because it
02:06wasn't just her who was being lampooned.
02:08I remember the Queen Mother was, well, we've got to be having a drink.
02:11Yes, Sporgin, Sporgin.
02:13I'm not sure that was quite so enjoyable for the late Queen Elizabeth.
02:18But I think when you look back at the sort of the panoply of things that have been on screen,
02:24films, TV series, the Netflix, The Crown, was probably the apotheosis of all of that, wasn't it?
02:31I think there's no secret.
02:32The royal family hated The Crown.
02:34Yeah.
02:35I mean, it's Peter Morgan, wasn't it, who made The Queen, which Helen Mirren.
02:39Which was brilliant. And actually, I don't think they minded that so much.
02:43Well, it was a new way of telling the story, wasn't it? But then it just got a bit too
02:46close, I think, didn't it?
02:47On the one hand, it was about a very certain moment in time, you know, September 97.
02:52So it was August, September 97, the death of Princess Diana.
02:55So it was only over a two or three week period.
02:59On the other, it was a pivotal moment, I would say, in how the royals were thought about, depicted, written
03:08about.
03:08And perhaps a moment in history, which, I mean, I don't know, is 97 history now, I suppose it is,
03:13that they really didn't want to revisit.
03:16Yeah. And it's one thing, when that season started, and we were talking about The Queen's Succession, we're back in
03:21the 1950s, and it did seem period drama.
03:25But I had a weird experience, because towards the end of the season, it was like people I knew and
03:31things I'd been partly involved with.
03:32And it was just really weird seeing that made into a drama, because what you realise is it has to
03:37work as a drama.
03:38This is not documentary. This is not history. It's TV drama.
03:42And I think that's perhaps one reason why it might be uncomfortable to watch if you played a part in
03:47it, because you're thinking, well, that's not what happened at all.
03:49Exactly. What was interesting about the royal family's reaction to the crown was, as you say, I think the earlier
03:54series, because the first series was when the two princesses, Elizabeth and Margaret, were quite young.
04:00Obviously, it did deal with Margaret's affair with group captain Peter Townsend.
04:05But it did feel like almost a long time ago, ancient history, and it actually introduced the royal family to
04:13a new generation, Gen Z, a new generation,
04:18when traditionally, the popularity of the royal family hasn't been quite so high with younger people.
04:25The comms team, the VP and the courtiers were quite relaxed about it to start with, when it looked at
04:30the Queen as a young woman.
04:31And of course, you know, she was, why not? She was young. She was glamorous. We got to talk about
04:35Princess Margaret as well, or rather the drama did.
04:39But I remember speaking to one of the historical advisors on the crown, and there was a particular scene, I
04:45think, when Queen Elizabeth was indisposed.
04:48And so Princess Margaret had to go and do a speech to some foreign diplomats.
04:52And I remember texting him saying, did this actually happen? Did she actually say this? Was there a speech?
04:59Did she actually use those words? And he went, well, Emily, you know, just use a bit of artistic license.
05:05I thought, well, isn't therein the problem with the crown? Because we are being, as the viewer, we are being
05:10sold that this is actually what happened,
05:13when actually a lot of this stuff didn't happen.
05:15I was an advisor on the crown. There was a particular character in one of the seasons who was a
05:20friend of Princess Margaret,
05:21who I knew very well in real life. And so they phoned up and they said, come and talk to
05:25you about it.
05:25So I spent a day talking to them about it, really detailed questions, and sort of answered as fully as
05:31I could.
05:31And also suggested someone who I thought would be perfect in the part.
05:35And then when it was actually broadcast, they used zero of it. None of it at all.
05:39I thought they got it completely wrong. They hadn't got it completely wrong.
05:42It worked perfectly well within the thing, but it's not because it wasn't reality, right?
05:47Reality doesn't work. You need to have something that creates television drama.
05:50And so you need bags of things to happen, and you need conflict, and you need vivid colours.
05:56And you need a really bouncy script.
05:59And a view. You don't have circumspection. You don't have, you know, the other...
06:04No, nuance, and sort of doesn't work quite so much when you want a cliffhanger of an end of an
06:11hour's drama.
06:11The people I know who were in it all watched it, and they would perhaps have distanced themselves slowly.
06:17I may have just kind of cast an eye upon it, but of course they watched it.
06:20And I wonder with the royal family, do they watch stuff about themselves?
06:24I think they probably do, because A, they might have to.
06:28There might be something about it that becomes a question that they come to people have to brief them about.
06:31But also, the endless fascination of your own world. Do you think?
06:37Well, I was told that the late Queen did initially watch the earlier episodes, but then as it got further
06:46on, after she became Queen, she also didn't like the...
06:51There was a storyline alluded to about Prince Philip and infidelity.
06:57And there was one particular scene, I think, or one particular episode of The Crown, where a potential relationship with
07:04him and a ballerina.
07:05Now, I don't know whether that did or didn't happen, but I was told by courtiers that that really angered
07:10Prince Philip.
07:11Of course, he was still alive at this point. And the Queen was not happy about that.
07:16But I'll tell you what, someone who did watch it, I was told, was Camilla.
07:20Checking out your in-laws.
07:21Checking out your in-laws. Yeah, exactly. Just getting the download.
07:24It's like Facebooking your in-laws.
07:25Exactly. Just getting the download of the history. It saves you having to read any kind of dry biographies, doesn't
07:31it?
07:31What's interesting is that, A, I think she obviously wanted to see in what direction The Crown was going, because
07:39she knew that she would be introduced as a character.
07:43Camilla is really interested in how the media works and how, and not just the media, newspapers or the news,
07:50drama and culture and how narratives are made.
07:54So I think she's also looking at it kind of from a kind of critical eye, an art critic, as
07:59opposed to just a kind of, you know, is this accurate or not?
08:02But of course, she has a great sense of humour because, of course, Emerald Fennell was invited to a reception
08:09at Clarence House.
08:10And she gamely knew that the picture that all the photographers would want would be of young Camilla and old
08:18Camilla.
08:18And she absolutely was very happy to pose for the pictures with Emerald Fennell and said, well, of course, I
08:23think she said something like that.
08:23They had a nice chat. She's got a great sense of humour, Queen Camilla.
08:26And she said something like, well, of course, if anything happens to me, we've always got you.
08:30So, I mean, it was rather charming.
08:35We're going to keep this conversation going, but we're going to have a break.
08:37But during the break, I want you to consider this question, come up with an answer.
08:41How many royal films have won an Oscar?
08:45How many royal films have won an Oscar? Back soon.
08:52Welcome back to Catching Up With The Royals.
08:54And don't forget, you can catch up every week with our amazing show, wherever you get your podcasts and on
09:02YouTube on a Thursday.
09:03On Saturday, you can watch us on five and you can always catch up on social media.
09:10Now, Richard.
09:11Yes.
09:12You asked a question.
09:13I did. How many royal films have gone on to win Oscars?
09:16And the answer is seven.
09:18Really?
09:19Yeah.
09:19I'm quite surprised.
09:20I could just think of two of them.
09:21One was Judi Dench in Shakespeare in Love, where she played Elizabeth I.
09:24And it was the shortest performance to win an Oscar.
09:28Oh, you sort of blink and you miss her, but she was very regal.
09:32That's Judi Dench.
09:34Interestingly, Judi Dench was very dismissive of the crown.
09:39Was she?
09:40I think she called it crude sensationalism.
09:42I wonder if that's because she's perhaps closer to the subjects than she once was.
09:47I don't know.
09:48It's tricky, isn't it?
09:49Because if you're doing a drama or a film about the royals, of course, there is always that potential that
09:56you can go to the press office and say, we're doing this.
09:58Can you help us?
09:59That often happens with biographies, by the way, Richard.
10:01Yeah.
10:02When a historian or an academic or indeed a journalist writes a book about the royals, sometimes they will go
10:08to the press office and say, can I have a help?
10:10Can I have a hand on this?
10:11And the press office will say, we would like to have a look at it.
10:13Yeah, the press, it depends.
10:15It depends whether it serves the principal's interest.
10:17So infamously, with Harry and Meghan, my old mate, Omid Scobie, went to Kensington Palace, as was, because they were
10:27representing Catherine, William, Meghan and Harry, and said, we're going to be doing this book, Finding Freedom, on Harry and
10:34Meghan.
10:34Do they want to cooperate?
10:34And we know, because the emails have been released, that Jason Knauf, who was the then comms secretary, said, well,
10:40we'll see.
10:42And Harry and Meghan actually sent him talking points and things to give Omid and Carolyn.
10:49So certainly with books, if it's in the principal's interest or the comms team think it's in the principal's interest,
10:54they will help.
10:55With films and with drama, I think it's a bit more tricky.
10:59I wonder if it, in the sense of all publicity is good publicity, that the fact that the royals continue
11:05to fascinate people in a way works for them, it actually gives strength to the institution.
11:09But then I was wondering, I'm sure there are lots of scripts in development now looking at who we now
11:15refer to as Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor and Sarah Ferguson, because, you know, that having a, you know, coming our way
11:22in dramatic form is going to be potentially very difficult for them to watch, I don't think.
11:26Yeah, and it's that thing, isn't it?
11:27I think we, as the general public, what we want to know, we want to have that look behind the
11:33curtain, right?
11:34We want to know that they're just as human as the rest of us.
11:37We want to know that they have the foibles and they have to do the washing up.
11:40You know, it's infamous for a reason, the late queen putting on her marigolds and doing the washing up at
11:47Balmoral.
11:48I mean, that's such a famous story because we all kind of find it ridiculous and amazing that this lady
11:53who wore the imperial state crown actually did the washing up, but she did.
11:57So we want them to be like us, but we want them to be not like us as well.
12:01And it's very difficult, isn't it, for the royals, especially the monarch, I think, treading that line of being imperial,
12:08but also still to be human.
12:12You've got kind of the late queen who was almost a godlike figure, really.
12:18And then you've got Prince William, who likes to say, likes to tell us that he loves Villa, goes to
12:23Villa Park, has a pint down the pub.
12:27He's very much kind of middle class dad.
12:29Every monarch has to find their own way of being.
12:33But it's a new thing.
12:34What they have to do is find a new way of being that works on telly.
12:37I mean, film adaptations are a bit different, aren't they?
12:39Because often they're historical.
12:41And sometimes I think they may be, because they have the degree of, you know, it's a script.
12:46You can perhaps get a bit more into speculative stuff about who these people are, what makes them tick, what
12:51their motivations are.
12:52Do you think there are any particular movies or TV adaptations about the monarchy or significant royal figures that you
13:00particularly like or ring true to you, knowing them as you do?
13:04I really like Wolf Hall.
13:06Yeah, me too.
13:07I loved the books by Hilary Mantel.
13:09And I thought the adaptations were brilliant.
13:12I loved the music.
13:14I loved Mark Rylance and obviously also Damien Lewis as Henry.
13:19Real menace there.
13:20The great thing about Wolf Hall, both in terms of the TV programme and the book, was that it was
13:26hugely researched.
13:29When you're thinking about history, I think, obviously, his story, history, there's never one version of history, right?
13:38When you're trying, whether you're writing a history A-level or doing a book or whatever you're doing, you've got
13:44to look at all the sources available and then come up with your opinion or your thesis.
13:49When you are looking at the history of the modern royal family in recent, I mean, you know, I was
13:55thinking, as we were talking about it earlier in the before the break, do we even call 97 history?
14:00Well, I think we probably do.
14:01I called it last week.
14:02You called it last week's history?
14:05I mean, I can't even remember what I had for breakfast last week, let alone, you know, like 97.
14:09But so is it more difficult to be unsentimental and to weigh up her side of events, his side of
14:21events, when the events are much more recent, there's much more emotion?
14:25Well, partly because the remoter history is maybe the greater latitude you have.
14:29Definitely.
14:30Stuff where people are still walking around and have, you know, living memories of those things is a bit tricky.
14:36Well, I mean, I think there's a quote in there from Prince Harry, who said that he would rather watch
14:41episodes of The Crown than read stories written about him and his wife.
14:47Well, it's a more flattering account.
14:49Well, it's a more flattering account, certainly, in The Crown.
14:51You do wonder, don't you, if, you know, if, I suppose we'll see another season of The Crown, but if
14:56something like it were to...
14:58The other thing about The Crown I think was really interesting is they shoved so much money at it.
15:02They spent a fortune.
15:03I had a friend who made a fortune just from a corgis, who used to lend the corgis to go
15:07and do the dog scenes at Windsor Castle.
15:09My partner was in one episode of it as well, and he was saying it was, I mean, they just
15:14lavished money on it.
15:15Your lovely Dickie.
15:16Yes.
15:17What did he play?
15:17He played the MP for Michael Fagan, who was, it was one of the episodes, one where they broke into
15:22the Queen's bedroom, do you remember, at Buckingham Palace?
15:25Sat on her bed.
15:26Sat on her bed while Dickie played his MP.
15:30But, I mean, everyone, it was like Emmerdale for posh actors, basically, The Crown.
15:34Everyone was in it because it was on for such a long time.
15:36And if you didn't get a call-up, who were you?
15:38Who were you?
15:39Who were you?
15:40That's where I chopped liver.
15:40Do you remember Spencer, which was the film, I think it was made actually by Dutch children, which was about
15:44Diana Spencer.
15:46I didn't like that at all.
15:48It looked awful.
15:49I thought that took it too far.
15:51It was kind of, it was, well, I thought partly it was a very inaccurate portrayal.
15:56No disrespect to the actor, Kristen Stewart, who played her, who did, a fine actor.
16:00But I didn't think the script was good.
16:01And also, I think it gave a very distorted view.
16:03It just presented Diana as this sort of caged songbird.
16:07And actually, it was a much more complex character than that.
16:11I just didn't like it at all.
16:13It was like some sort of gothic horror.
16:14It is difficult, isn't it?
16:16I suppose, when any drama, you are dramatising things that have happened in real life.
16:23But when you're dealing with such a famous person as Diana, the Princess of Wales,
16:29I don't think you can or should take too many liberties.
16:32Definitely, this is the nerd in me.
16:34I like things to be sort of as right as you can get them to be.
16:37And the house they used for Sandringham was nothing like Sandringham.
16:42And the house they used for Allthorpe was nothing like Allthorpe.
16:45And I think when you see those people in their locations,
16:48you see that that's actually quite an important thing.
16:52Their lives are lived in certain places.
16:54And those places, you know this from Buckingham Palace.
16:56You know Buckingham Palace is not a house.
16:58It's HQ, isn't it?
16:59It's a cavern.
17:00Yeah, and it's horrible, actually.
17:01And it's full of people doing it.
17:03And that shapes who you are.
17:04It's like living in your office, isn't it?
17:06It shapes who you are.
17:07It is.
17:07Well, it's like living in a cavernous museum, Buckingham Palace.
17:10And that's why they call it the big house.
17:12That's why nobody ever wants to live there.
17:14And there was all this kerfuffle about 10 years ago.
17:18And Buckingham Palace is kind of empty at the moment because it's being done up.
17:23It's being renovated.
17:24And what's so fascinating about BP when you go inside is that you go,
17:30there are obviously these amazing rooms like the throne room where there are the thrones,
17:33rooms and the garden room, the music room.
17:36But then there are the servants' areas and also the areas that the royals would move through to get from
17:44A to B.
17:45And it's kind of wires hanging off the walls.
17:48It's just, it's like a hospital corridor.
17:51There's probably asbestos behind there.
17:53Let's not look too closely.
17:55Wires, the paint's peeling.
17:56There's horrible linoleum on the floor.
17:59There's like gaffer tape.
18:00And then you go through a little door.
18:02And then suddenly you're in the golden, you know, you're in the white sitting room.
18:05It's like theatre.
18:05It's amazing.
18:06In fact, when Edward VII had Buckingham Palace all done up and it was all cream and scarlet and gold,
18:12he actually got the idea from Frank Matcham, the theatre designer.
18:15Really?
18:16He was consciously trying to capture something of the kind of glamour of the West End theatre
18:19where you have the front of houses like that.
18:21And then it's like Wandsworth Nick out the back.
18:24Do you have a nice story about it?
18:26My friend, my neighbour, she has a hair colourist,
18:29used to do the Queen's hair.
18:31And anyway, he was doing the Queen's hair.
18:33He used to go to Buckingham Palace twice a week or something to do the Queen's hair.
18:36And he went there and she said, oh, how are you?
18:38And he said, oh, great, actually.
18:39We had an awful flood at home.
18:41And she said, oh, what's wrong?
18:41He said, well, we've got the builders and I.
18:43And she said, oh, well, come and live here.
18:45And he came to live in Buckingham Palace while the builders were in doing that.
18:49But he said it was like living, it's like you were on the cruise side of a big ship.
18:54Lots of cabins and lots of people all living in there.
18:57And a very backstage sort of feeling.
18:59But he was very grateful.
19:00Grateful to have some digs while the builders were in.
19:02Oh, what a nice of the Queen's sail coming in.
19:04Well, there's a lot of accommodation there.
19:06I mean, that's the thing.
19:06The top floor of Buckingham Palace is all full.
19:08Well, it was before the renovations.
19:10I think they've knocked, you know, they've modernised quite a bit.
19:13They've actually put some plumbing in, Richard, put some bathrooms in.
19:16But at the top, on the top floor, the third floor, was the old nurseries.
19:19And indeed, just loads and loads and loads of servants' rooms.
19:22And there's also the mews, which is next door to Buckingham Palace.
19:25There's a lot of the, well, yeah, servants.
19:28There's a lot of servants' accommodation there.
19:30And a lot of the servants are, you know, they're young kids.
19:34I mean, when I've been in to BP and there's a head of estate visit or you're there for a
19:40briefing,
19:40a lot of the kind of waiting staff are, you know, kids in their 20s, early 20s,
19:47maybe a first job after school.
19:49Obviously, they've been security vetted within an inch of their life.
19:52But they're paid really quite badly.
19:54But part of the sort of thing is that they get, you know, accommodation in central London.
19:58It's good news for costume designers, isn't it?
20:00Because when you start making it into drama, you realize, oh,
20:03like they've got footmen in livery and all that kind of thing.
20:05That style of living that is just unimaginable and unlivable anywhere now,
20:10unless I guess maybe you're a Middle Eastern royal and you've got the money to do that.
20:14Yeah.
20:15Yeah, well, there are a lot, there's a lot of staff.
20:17Obviously, a big cave like that at BP needs a lot of staff to look after it.
20:21What did you make of The King's Speech?
20:23That was another kind of hugely popular film, wasn't it?
20:26And Colin Firth played George VI as he was, or Duke of York as he was originally.
20:30But anyone who's had a serious speech impediment will know what agony that can be.
20:35But to be a public figure and then all of a sudden to find yourself,
20:39in a completely unforeseeable way, King of England.
20:42Again, another seismic moment in history, modern history,
20:47that was used to sell a drama.
20:51But interestingly, I watched that film and enjoyed it as a drama.
20:56I didn't think it was necessarily telling me what actually happened, so to speak.
21:01That's interesting.
21:01Did you?
21:02Well, no, I thought it was just, because I thought it worked very well.
21:04I was quite moved by it.
21:05But I thought it was also just very interesting.
21:07We project, don't we?
21:08And what we project here is, oh, amazing, the King of England had this relationship
21:12where he was almost subordinate to this brash Australian.
21:15And we like that, don't we?
21:16Because it sort of meets our democratic impulses.
21:19I wonder if it was really like that.
21:20The Princess of Wales also had lessons.
21:25The present Princess of Wales.
21:27The present Princess of Wales, Catherine.
21:29She always was very, very nervous about public speaking.
21:33Certainly to start with, I mean, I remember seeing a speech she gave
21:36at the National Portrait Gallery, one of her patronages.
21:39The poor woman looked so like she was caught in it,
21:43like a cat stuck in the headlights.
21:45She was all dilly-dollied up and looked beautiful and lovely
21:47and looked at the part, but she was giving a short speech
21:50and she stumbled over the words.
21:52And you could just tell that she was wishing the floor
21:54to just open up and swallow her because, obviously,
21:57everybody was concentrating on her.
21:59We were all filming it, sort of thing.
22:00Anyway, before, when she got engaged to William, she had,
22:03I mean, I think in old parlance we call it elocution lessons,
22:06wouldn't we?
22:06But it wasn't just elocution lessons.
22:08It was the same as why George VI had speaking lessons.
22:13It was to help diction, but help confidence.
22:16So we talked about the royals being on the silver screen, Richard,
22:22but after the break, I am going to be spilling some secrets
22:26about what the stars of the silver screen think
22:29when they meet the royals.
22:31But before then, a question.
22:34What do Queen Camilla and Lady Gaga, the pop star, have in common?
22:42We'll be back after this.
22:48So before the break, we asked you,
22:50what did Queen Camilla and Lady Gaga have in common?
22:56And spoiler, it's not that they both have a poker face.
23:00Oh.
23:00What do you think the answer is, Richard?
23:02I want it to be about Jack Russell Terriers.
23:04I know.
23:05It's not, though, is it?
23:06Gaga is actually a nickname for Stephanie Jamagotta
23:10and Queen Camilla because she is nicknamed Gaga to her grandchildren
23:15instead of Grandma.
23:16I'd love to see them do a double act, wouldn't you?
23:19Can you imagine Camilla in a meat dress?
23:21Oh, it would be amazing.
23:22Met ball, that would be great.
23:23Do you know what?
23:23She's got a cracking sense of humour, Queen Camilla,
23:26and I think she would be up for a bit of a double act,
23:30but I'm not sure how strong her singing voice is.
23:34But I tell you, someone who did do a double act, triple act,
23:40with two Hollywood superstars, and that was Prince William.
23:44Because of the royal family, because of their position both in the UK
23:48and globally, they do meet a huge amount of famous people, don't they?
23:51And they absolutely leverage their position to, for instance,
23:58in this scenario, Prince William, I think it was in 2011,
24:02invited Jon Bon Jovi and Taylor Swift to perform at a Centrepoint Gala.
24:07And Jon Bon Jovi and Taylor Swift entertained the crowd.
24:12And then, I can't remember whether it was Taylor or Jon,
24:17invited William onto the stage.
24:18I think some drinks had been consumed by this point, Richard.
24:22And there is some amazing footage of William singing,
24:27Living on a Prayer, with Taylor Swift and Jon Bon Jovi.
24:31Because you do a creditable job of it.
24:32I thought he was very good, actually.
24:35I mean, that's quite a...
24:36Where's the karaoke generation, isn't it?
24:38They've all...
24:39Grown up, singing, Living on a Prayer.
24:42Singing alone, yeah.
24:42And what's nice, actually, is that obviously William and Taylor kept in touch
24:48because when Taylor brought her Errors tour to London last year,
24:56you know, her global tour,
24:58she personally invited William and Catherine and the children
25:03to come and hear her play at Wembley.
25:07Of course, Catherine was still recovering from her cancer treatment.
25:14But William took George and Charlotte and some very sweet...
25:19I was told that Charlotte and George, actually,
25:22had made Taylor some friendship bracelets.
25:24Because this is a big thing.
25:25Like, Taylor and her fans all make friendship bracelets and stuff.
25:27And George and Charlotte gave Taylor some friendship bracelets.
25:30And Taylor gave some to William, George and Charlotte.
25:35And what I thought was interesting was that William was relaxed enough.
25:38He's very protective, quite understandably, over his kids.
25:41But he was relaxed enough to let Taylor's team take some pics.
25:46And then, crucially, she put them out on her Instagram
25:51and through the KP social channels as well.
25:55Because in the old days, of course,
25:56you would have been commanded to come and do a performance
25:58at Windsor Castle, wouldn't you?
26:00A private performance, yeah.
26:02Whereas now, he takes his kids to a pop concert.
26:05And they do their friendship bracelets.
26:07They do their friendship bracelets.
26:08Quite sweet, really.
26:09Of course, in 1956, late Queen Elizabeth met Marilyn Monroe.
26:13Wow.
26:13I mean, I wonder what the late Queen Elizabeth made of the Queen of Hollywood.
26:17The Queen Mother, she liked her theatre friends.
26:20Didn't she?
26:21And they were part of her rather camp coterie
26:23that used to stay at the Castle of May when she was in Scotland.
26:27Gin, Dubonnet and lots of champs.
26:30Yeah.
26:31Yeah, and, you know, show beers and the West End and all that.
26:35And, of course, yeah, Queen Camilla.
26:36She's very interested in the arts and theatre.
26:38I think she's friends with, obviously, James Doody Dent.
26:40She's actually done engagements with James Doody Dent,
26:43almost as if she's kind of like one of her companions of honour,
26:46one of her, as was, ladies-in-waiting.
26:48Joanna Lumley, she's good pals with.
26:51And the late, great Maggie Smith.
26:54She's had these kind of, almost had a salon.
26:56She and Charles, the King, King Charles,
27:00have almost had these sort of salons, haven't they,
27:02of famous writers and actors and the sort of the greats.
27:07Yeah, I mean, I was, Charles Brandreth invited us to drinks,
27:11was a few drinks in central London, a few friends,
27:13and, of course, there were about 600 people there,
27:15including the Queen.
27:16But there was a moment there where there was a picture of the Queen
27:19with all the theatrical dames.
27:21So it was Judy Dench and I think Maggie Smith
27:23and I think Eileen Atkins and I think maybe Helen Mirren.
27:27She was great friends with Jilly Cooper, the late, great Jilly Cooper.
27:30They were really good mates because, of course,
27:33the Queen's got, I mean, born out of lockdown,
27:35the Queen's reading room, it started off on Instagram,
27:38just recommendations of, you know,
27:39just recommendations to her, several thousand followers,
27:42about what books she was liking to read
27:45and, obviously, great promoter of literacy, the Queen.
27:48Jilly Cooper apparently based her great literary hero,
27:54hero, can we call Rupert Campbell Black a hero?
27:56I think so.
27:57The Shagger.
27:57The Shagger, the showjumper and the Shagger
27:59was based, apparently, a large part on Andrew Parker Bowles,
28:03Camilla's first husband.
28:04So she and Jilly have always been good chums,
28:07you know, the Gloucestershire sort of riding set
28:09and she, when Jilly Cooper was still alive,
28:13invited Queen Camilla to the set of Rivals
28:16and she met David Tennant, who plays Tony Battingham.
28:19She met...
28:20You love this book.
28:21Oh, I do.
28:21I love Jilly Cooper.
28:23Riders, Rivals.
28:24I've read them all.
28:26I thought you were lovely, I liked it.
28:27Yeah, I can ride a horse as well as a man, Richard.
28:32I make no judgment.
28:34The oldest thing, when you're sort of commanded
28:36into the royal presence, I suppose everyone would be
28:38on their best behaviour, but you must have seen the royals
28:39around celebrities who, in a way, are kind of like royals
28:43in their own particular worlds, aren't they?
28:45How do they behave?
28:46Well, it's fascinating because, of course,
28:48the royals always top trump any star of the stage or screen.
28:54And actually, it's fascinating watching these A-list actors,
28:58some of them, in their own environment,
29:00sort of be reduced to quivering, trembling wrecks.
29:03I remember one time covering the BAFTAs
29:06and this American guy approaches me and says,
29:11excuse me, ma'am.
29:12I'm like, yeah, hi.
29:13He's like, when William and Kate get here,
29:17how do we talk to them?
29:20How do we address them?
29:21And I said, oh, if you just call them sir and ma'am,
29:25like rhymes with jam.
29:26I said, that's absolutely fine.
29:27He then went and sat on the front row.
29:30And I thought, oh my goodness,
29:32I thought this guy had looked a bit familiar.
29:35It was Leonardo DiCaprio.
29:38And he was really nervous.
29:40And he said, like, do I bow?
29:42Do I curtsy?
29:43And I said, no, no, you don't have to.
29:46It's totally up to you.
29:46The protocol is, the protocol from Buckingham Palace is
29:49that when you meet a member of the royal family,
29:52it is up to you what you do.
29:55But he just really didn't want to get anything wrong.
29:57He'd never met a member of the royal family before.
29:59And he was just, and I watched him
30:01as William and Catherine came.
30:02They sat down.
30:03William turned around,
30:04obviously shaking hands to whomever was near him,
30:06of which Leonardo DiCaprio was.
30:08And he gave a nod and said, hello.
30:10And he did it perfectly.
30:13But I mean, for me,
30:14as a clergyman in the Church of England,
30:16the protocol still adheres.
30:17So if I meet a member of the royal family,
30:19then it is formally bow by title
30:22and thereafter sir or ma'am.
30:23It's just because we would be on duty, right?
30:26In a way, I think you make a really good point.
30:27Because I think with the late queen,
30:28it was very obvious.
30:30And I don't curtsy.
30:31I've always given a bow of my head
30:33to Charles and Camilla.
30:35But with the late queen,
30:37I did curtsy properly.
30:39Because she's Queen Elizabeth.
30:41That's what you did.
30:42And you don't want to be rude, do you?
30:43No.
30:43And also you would be prepared to...
30:44And she would expect that.
30:46That's what she would expect to be.
30:47And their expectation is different now.
30:48Yeah.
30:49And I think with King Charles and Queen Camilla
30:51and with William and Catherine,
30:52there is a potentially different expectation.
30:55And so it makes it slightly more tricky,
30:58I think,
30:58because at least you knew where you were
31:00with the late queen.
31:01I remember actually William and Kate's,
31:03Catherine's, Princess Kate,
31:06her first tour to North America.
31:09So it was mainly Canada, Commonwealth.
31:12Late queen was Queen of Canada too.
31:15And then they went to Los Angeles
31:17because the courtiers were very much wanting
31:19to capitalise on the latest glam squad
31:23of the latest glam team.
31:25After Canada,
31:26they went to Los Angeles where BAFTA has an outpost
31:30and they went to BAFTA House.
31:32And there was this garden party in LA
31:35where a number of A-list actors and actresses
31:40had been invited.
31:40And I remember Reese Witherspoon,
31:42again, a bit like Leonardo DiCaprio.
31:44I mean, she's no shrinking violet
31:47by any stretch of the imagination,
31:48but she was visibly nervous waiting
31:51for the royals to arrive.
31:53And that's another thing,
31:54because I think that actors and actresses
31:56of that grade,
31:58obviously, they never have to wait.
32:00Their time is incredibly important.
32:02They just...
32:03They'll wait for that.
32:04But they will wait for the royals.
32:05And there is a lot of waiting around.
32:07I just wonder if what it's like
32:08if the royals meet someone
32:10who they ever get starstruck.
32:12Or do you think I've really just so used
32:14to this being the sun that shines
32:16that you just don't...
32:17In my experience,
32:20where I have seen that
32:22is actually with war heroes.
32:24So where I have seen people like Harry,
32:28William and Catherine
32:29been somewhat awestruck
32:31is meeting people who've, say,
32:33served, for instance,
32:34in the Second World War.
32:35I think there's that age differential as well
32:38and that experience differential.
32:39Because, of course,
32:40you know, the late Queen Elizabeth,
32:41she did serve in the Second World War
32:43as, you know, the Home Guard
32:44and also as an auxiliary mechanic
32:47in the army.
32:48It's not going to be someone
32:48in Fast and Furious, is it?
32:50Not going to get the same degree.
32:51No.
32:52And, of course, with Tom Cruise.
32:53When Tom Cruise,
32:54when William and Catherine
32:55went to his film premiere,
32:58I mean, he was absolutely like
33:01the cat that got the cream
33:02with, you know, Princess Catherine
33:04coming to his film premiere.
33:06But I don't think that kind of thing
33:09really phases them.
33:10I think where they get
33:13slightly more starstruck
33:15is when they meet someone
33:17who's done something
33:19very, very impressive.
33:20Not that I'm saying
33:20acting in a Hollywood movie
33:22is impressive.
33:22But like Manuela, perhaps.
33:23Yes.
33:24Yeah.
33:24Well, of course,
33:25Charles took Harry
33:27after Dinah died.
33:28Charles took Harry
33:29to South Africa
33:31on a tour with him.
33:32And, of course,
33:33there he met the Spice Girls.
33:35Harry and Charles
33:36met the Spice Girls.
33:38Lucky boy.
33:38And I think that
33:41when the boys were younger,
33:43I think there's some story
33:44about when William or Harry
33:46met some of the original Supers,
33:50Kate Moss,
33:50Selene Christensen,
33:51Naomi Campbell.
33:52And I think William had a picture
33:54of one of the Supers
33:55up on his wall at Eton.
33:56And then he was blushing furiously,
33:59you know,
33:59when he met her in the flesh.
34:02I know, bless.
34:03Well, you know,
34:0317-year-old boy,
34:04you kind of meet the...
34:05I hope he was wearing
34:07appropriate dress.
34:09Yes!
34:10When you meet the object
34:11of your kind of
34:14adolescent affection,
34:15then you're going to be
34:16a bit embarrassed.
34:16What about for you meeting them
34:17and when you are in that world
34:18all of a sudden?
34:20How does it take for you
34:21to just...
34:22They're just the people
34:23you see at work.
34:25Well, I'd be lying
34:26if I said when I first met them
34:28I wasn't nervous.
34:29There is that sense of
34:30you don't want to say
34:32or do anything wrong.
34:35But I suppose
34:36as time goes on
34:37you spend a lot of time
34:39with them,
34:39observing them,
34:40you chat to them off camera.
34:42They are the same age as me.
34:45So I suppose I...
34:46I just treated them
34:48as I would
34:50my, you know,
34:51colleagues.
34:52I did...
34:52There was this fun...
34:53Actually, I met Prince George
34:55as a little baby.
34:56That was quite nerve-wracking
34:58because Catherine brought him
34:59to a drinks reception
35:01at Kensington Palace
35:02and I...
35:03What was his poison?
35:04Yeah, George.
35:05It was milk.
35:06Very much milky.
35:08And I'm wearing
35:09my engagement ring
35:10and it's quite...
35:10It's an old ring,
35:11this one, Richard.
35:12And it's got...
35:13I had noticed.
35:13Yes, I mean, it is quite...
35:14It's an old...
35:15It's a cocktail ring.
35:16It's a sort of
35:16Art Deco cocktail ring
35:18and there's quite a lot
35:19of old diamonds in there.
35:21Anyway, George,
35:22he kind of...
35:23He reaches out
35:25to my hand
35:26and he goes to put
35:27the ring inside his mouth
35:28as, you know,
35:29babies do.
35:30And I think,
35:30oh my goodness,
35:32what if a diamond
35:32comes off and chokes
35:33the future air?
35:35I just was like,
35:36ah, no,
35:37please don't put this in.
35:38Please don't put it in.
35:39Well, I'd be pretty quick
35:40with the harmony for me.
35:41Exactly.
35:42Bless his little heart.
35:44Are you such a bonny baby?
35:45Well, now, listen,
35:46this is Catching Up
35:47with the Royals
35:47and you can catch up
35:48with us, of course,
35:49every Thursday
35:50on YouTube
35:50wherever you get
35:51your social media
35:52and you can watch us
35:53on 5 to your heart's content.
35:55And that's good.
35:56I've got a question
35:56for you, though,
35:57and it's this.
35:58Who was the shortest
36:00serving monarch
36:02of the royal family?
36:03Answer coming up.
36:08Welcome back.
36:09Well, we left you
36:10with a question,
36:10didn't we?
36:10It was who's the shortest
36:11reigning monarch
36:13in the British royal family?
36:14Well, of course,
36:15Lady Jane Grey,
36:16the poor thing,
36:17the nine-day queen
36:18who, in the fierce politics
36:21of Reformation England,
36:22I'm afraid,
36:23she only got nine days
36:24and ended up having
36:25her head chopped off.
36:26We don't recommend that.
36:27Before we go to the end
36:28of the show, Richard,
36:29where we're going to have
36:29Richard and Emily's
36:30Royal Awards.
36:32Quick question for you.
36:33Yeah.
36:33Maggie has emailed in
36:35and if you do have
36:36any questions,
36:37please do ask
36:38Richard and I
36:38at royals
36:40at spirit-studios.com.
36:44But Maggie wants to know,
36:46did she see you
36:47on the film
36:48Pitch Perfect?
36:50No.
36:51Oh!
36:51Don't think so.
36:52Unless I was walking
36:53past the background.
36:54No, not to my knowledge.
36:56I was nearly
36:57in a royal film.
36:59I was nearly
37:01Eric Cantona's chaplain
37:02when he played
37:03the Spanish ambassador
37:04in Cape Blanchet's Elizabeth
37:06because a friend of mine
37:07produced that film
37:07and I had rather a thing
37:08for Eric Cantona
37:09and she tried to swing it for me
37:10but equity wouldn't have it.
37:12Oh, because you're not a member.
37:13So I was nearly
37:13in a royal film.
37:14Oh, I think we need
37:15to change that.
37:16Can you get your equity card,
37:17please?
37:17And then you can...
37:18Oh, I can't be bothered now.
37:19No.
37:20No.
37:20Well, should we have...
37:21We don't need an equity card
37:23for this,
37:23for our own royal awards.
37:25Oh, yes.
37:27So...
37:28What are our categories?
37:30The categories are
37:32leading lady,
37:33best supporting member,
37:35best drama,
37:36best costume
37:36and rising star.
37:38Oh, I have a view
37:39about all of these.
37:40Okay, Richard.
37:41Who, out of the current
37:42or past royal family,
37:44would be your nomination
37:45for leading lady?
37:47I'm kind of trying
37:47to keep it current,
37:48pretty much.
37:49You would think
37:49it would be Catherine
37:50because I think
37:51it's a tough gig
37:52and I think she's doing
37:53a very good job
37:54and I think you could see her
37:57that insofar as
37:58anything like that
37:59can ever be in safe hands,
38:00I think it is in safe,
38:01impeccably manicured hands.
38:02What do you think?
38:04I also...
38:05It's a bit of a slam dunk,
38:06isn't it,
38:06Princess Catherine?
38:07I've actually got down
38:08Prince Philip
38:09as my leading lady
38:10because I think he had...
38:13That really is a scoop.
38:16Can you imagine?
38:18That would be great.
38:18Can you imagine?
38:22Because obviously
38:23kind of the gender roles
38:24were slightly reversed.
38:26You had the Queen,
38:28late Queen Elizabeth
38:29as head of the institution
38:30and I mean,
38:32I wouldn't even say
38:33the Queen was an alpha female
38:34but Philip very much
38:36was an alpha male
38:37having to play
38:38a beta role
38:39in the sort of consort.
38:41He was the...
38:42He couldn't be king
38:43because you had the Queen...
38:45She was a Queen regnant.
38:46I think the way
38:47that Philip carved out
38:48such a successful role
38:49for himself
38:50both as a charitable campaigner
38:51and as the partner
38:54of the monarch
38:54was very impressive.
38:56He's my leading lady.
38:57There you go.
38:58I'm sure he would...
38:59Well, I hope he would smile.
38:59He'd be delighted.
39:01Well, I've got one for you.
39:02Best supporting cast member.
39:05Well, I think it has to be
39:06for me, Princess Anne.
39:08I mean, I don't know.
39:09Who did you put?
39:10I put Paul Burrell.
39:14People do,
39:14perhaps they get
39:15so enchanted by her
39:17that they start
39:17kind of in...
39:19thinking that they're
39:20kind of part of it.
39:21Well, there's definitely
39:22red carpet fever.
39:23Is that what it's called?
39:24I do think, yeah,
39:26I've seen it
39:26where courtiers
39:28and hangers-on
39:29and journos
39:30think that they are
39:31maybe just as important
39:31as the royals.
39:32I get it with clergy too.
39:33The clergy who are
39:34in the sort of
39:34Wren Royal House
39:35and they start getting
39:36very kind of grand.
39:38Someone who is grand
39:39but deservedly so
39:40would be my
39:42supporting...
39:42best supporting member,
39:43Princess Anne.
39:44I think she's pretty amazing.
39:46I mean,
39:47there's that infamous quote
39:48in there from Prince Philip.
39:49If it doesn't
39:51snore or eat grass
39:53or fart
39:54then she's not interested
39:55basically
39:56because she's so
39:56kind of obsessed
39:57with horses
39:58which is true
39:59like her daughter Zara
40:00but
40:01she's just
40:02she's literally
40:03the workhorse
40:04of the royal family.
40:05She just
40:05even when she got
40:06knocked out
40:06by a horse
40:07two years ago
40:08she just
40:09you know
40:10went off to an
40:11NHS hospital
40:11in Bristol.
40:12She was seriously
40:14concussed
40:15and she really downplayed
40:16actually I think
40:16how injured she was
40:18but she just got up
40:19literally
40:20kept on working
40:21got back in the saddle
40:22forgive the equine metaphors
40:24and she will just
40:25keep working
40:25until she dies.
40:26She is amazing.
40:27Yeah
40:27I'm a very big admirer
40:28I think she's terrific.
40:30Right
40:30next category
40:32best drama
40:33Well it's only
40:34I hate to say this
40:35it would be a very dark drama
40:36but it's the fall
40:37of the House of York
40:38Really?
40:38I think if I were Hollywood
40:39and I were looking
40:40for a script at the moment
40:41that's the one
40:42that would get to the top
40:43of my pile.
40:43I've written down Megzip
40:45Harry and Meghan
40:46leaving
40:47because that's an endless
40:48it's slightly less dark
40:50no less painful
40:51but slightly less dark
40:52yeah
40:53Harry I know
40:54got very angry
40:56it being sort of
40:57as he saw it
40:58slightly tarred
40:59with the same brush
41:00as Prince Andrew
41:02then was
41:03and was like
41:04well how can
41:06what I've done
41:06you know
41:06just speaking out
41:07my truth
41:07how can that be
41:08much worse
41:09than potentially
41:10what my
41:11My heart always sinks
41:11when someone says
41:12they're going to
41:12speak their truth
41:13Oh speak their truth
41:15I'd rather just have
41:15the truth
41:16Well it's just like
41:16history isn't it
41:17I mean what's your
41:18your truth
41:19one man's truth
41:20is another man's fiction
41:21Recollections may vary
41:23Recollections may vary
41:24Richard
41:24that was the absolute
41:27humdigger
41:27from
41:28it was obviously
41:29in the late Queen's
41:31late Queen's name
41:32but I think it was
41:34what I think actually
41:35it was her
41:35her comm sec
41:36I'd like to think
41:37it was her comm secretary
41:38lovely Donal
41:39McCabe
41:39who came up with that one
41:40beautifully phrased
41:42beautifully phrased
41:43how would you feel
41:44about best costume
41:45I have a
41:45I have a firm view
41:47okay
41:47well I've got
41:49our golden girl
41:50I'm afraid Catherine
41:51is in there for me
41:52either the golden
41:54Disney princess
41:55Philippa Lepley
41:56dress from the
41:57Trump's unprecedented
41:59state visit
42:00to Windsor
42:01last autumn
42:02or
42:02might just
42:04top Trump
42:04actually
42:05the Philippa Lepley
42:06is the Jenny Packham
42:08gold sequins
42:09when
42:10I know
42:11I know you know
42:12exactly what
42:13which dress I'm talking about
42:14when
42:15Princess Kate
42:16turned up at the
42:17No Time to Die
42:18premiere
42:18in I think it was either
42:20I think it was 2021
42:21and yeah we'd just come out
42:22of Covid
42:22it was all really depressing
42:24she and
42:26the then
42:27Prince Charles
42:28and Camilla
42:29and her and
42:30William turned up
42:30at the No Time to Die
42:31bomb premiere
42:32she looked
42:34drop dead gorgeous
42:35in gold sequins
42:36amazing
42:36mine is the
42:38it's the costume
42:39wore by the
42:40Royal Watermen
42:41and Lightmen
42:43who work the Royal Barge
42:44because they get to wear
42:45big scarlet breeches
42:48and then
42:48hose
42:49and then shoes
42:50and then the love
42:50sort of tunic thing
42:51and then this gorgeous
42:52red hat
42:53they look like
42:54a cross between
42:55William Shakespeare
42:56and Frankie de Tori
42:57brilliant
42:58it's an extraordinary costume
42:59are there any roughs
43:00going on
43:01no no it's quite plain
43:02because it's a working
43:03uniform actually
43:04but if I were
43:05I think you're only
43:06qualified to become one
43:06if you work on the Thames
43:08I've sometimes thought
43:09I would almost want
43:09to get a job
43:10working on the Thames
43:11just so I could end up
43:12wearing that
43:13I think you'd look lovely
43:14very quickly Richard
43:15just before
43:16at the end of the show
43:16you're rising star
43:17Samuel Chateau
43:18grandson of
43:20Princess Margaret
43:20and Lord Snowden
43:22son of Daniel
43:24and Sarah Chateau
43:25isn't it
43:26yeah him
43:26he's young
43:27and he's a potter
43:28I'm a big collector
43:28of ceramics
43:29I'm very keen on him
43:30excellent
43:31well mine
43:32won't surprise you
43:33Princess Charlotte
43:34she is the one to watch
43:36I'm afraid that's all
43:38for today
43:38from the show
43:39that never complains
43:41but always
43:42explains
43:43and
43:44I'm
43:44I'm
44:01I'm
44:04I'm
44:04I'm
44:04I'm