- 7 weeks ago
This is a tour of the Anderson Factory in Los Angeles, with the artist Ralph Ziman. Ralph Ziman is a South African-born multidisciplinary artist, filmmaker, photographer, and sculptor (born in 1963 in Johannesburg, now based in Los Angeles). He is best known for his socially and politically engaged work that addresses themes of conflict, violence, legacy, resistance, and institutional oppression. One of his latest projects is The Weapons of Mass Production Trilogy, consisting of the MiG-21, Casspir and AK-47 projects. The trilogy is the culmination of a 12-year project rooted in his experiences growing up in Apartheid South Africa. It examines the impact of the arms trade on global conflicts and the continued militarization of police forces worldwide, by transforming symbols of violence and oppression into works of art that inspire a reflection on history, resistance, and current conflicts. In this interview, we talk about the Trilogy and his career and work in general, and we also speak with the artists and team members Maria Greenshields-Ziman, Cindy Schwarzstein, Paul Duran-Lemos, Nick Bonamy.
Ralph Ziman was born in 1963 in Johannesburg, South Africa, and currently lives and works in Los Angeles, California. His work has been the subject of solo exhibitions at The Rendon Gallery in Los Angeles; Joseph Gross Gallery in Tucson, Arizona; and C.A.V.E. Gallery in Venice, California, as well as group exhibitions at the National Gallery in Cape Town, South Africa; Museum of Contemporary African Diasporan Arts in Brooklyn, NY; the FNB Art Fair in Johannesburg, South Africa; MUDAC in Lausanne, France; and Forum Schlossplatz in Aarau, Switzerland, among others.
Anderson Factory Tour with Artist Ralph Ziman. Los Angeles, March 5, 2026.
Ralph Ziman was born in 1963 in Johannesburg, South Africa, and currently lives and works in Los Angeles, California. His work has been the subject of solo exhibitions at The Rendon Gallery in Los Angeles; Joseph Gross Gallery in Tucson, Arizona; and C.A.V.E. Gallery in Venice, California, as well as group exhibitions at the National Gallery in Cape Town, South Africa; Museum of Contemporary African Diasporan Arts in Brooklyn, NY; the FNB Art Fair in Johannesburg, South Africa; MUDAC in Lausanne, France; and Forum Schlossplatz in Aarau, Switzerland, among others.
Anderson Factory Tour with Artist Ralph Ziman. Los Angeles, March 5, 2026.
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CreativityTranscript
00:00:22Ralf, tell me a little bit about this base here. Where are we?
00:00:25We are in Boyle Heights, just adjacent to the Arts District in Los Angeles,
00:00:32underneath the new Sixth Street Bridge, which I think you've seen outside.
00:00:37Yeah, really interesting part of Los Angeles, a lot of artists, a lot of people
00:00:42working on, you know, different motorcars and sports and yeah, stuff like that, so
00:00:47it's a very eclectic part of Los Angeles and just really feels that there's a lot
00:00:53of creative energy here. And what are you doing? I mean you're a creative guy and
00:01:01you do a lot of stuff. I did some research on the internet but it's really
00:01:05overwhelming, so maybe you can talk a little bit about it. I think it all dovetails together
00:01:09because I think everything is, you know, part of a creative process. I started off
00:01:15when I was a kid doing art, painting, drawing, sculpting. When I was 13 I got
00:01:21my first camera and that was very liberating because all of a sudden you
00:01:25had this whole new world opening up and I had a darkroom when I was 14, 15 where I'd print
00:01:31them.
00:01:31And then when I left school I got a job working for television as a news
00:01:35cameraman and, you know, shooting film which was also, you know, the next progression.
00:01:43When I left South Africa in the early 1980s, I went to United Kingdom and it was the early days
00:01:49of music
00:01:50videos and I started directing music videos at like 21, 22 years old and I did about 400 of them
00:01:57between
00:02:001982 and 1998 and then from there I went on to film and then sort of fell in love with
00:02:06art all over again.
00:02:07But I think, I think they're all part of, you know, the same spectrum because you take what you've learned
00:02:14in art
00:02:15and you take it to photography and then you take those ideas of composition into, into film
00:02:21and then I brought all of that cinematic things back, you know, that cinematic knowledge back into my art
00:02:28and I work with a big team of people. So, you know, when you're in film it's a collaborative process,
00:02:36you know,
00:02:36you've got a cinematographer, an editor, a composer doing the music, there's art directors and everybody's got their skill
00:02:43and I think I brought some of that back into, into my art. So, but it's very liberating, you know,
00:02:52I kind of really love what I'm doing and I can show you around some of the things we do.
00:02:56I grew up in South Africa and I always had a fascination for African beadwork and it was just, I
00:03:04felt like a very underappreciated art form.
00:03:10It was looked on as a craft and it was looked on as being a kind of a low craft,
00:03:14you know, during apartheid and people thought it was something that you sold to tourists or whatever.
00:03:19So, I wanted to take that and I wanted to transform it into, you know, an art form.
00:03:25We use traditional skills but we use colours and patterns that don't reference any particular tribe.
00:03:32I wanted it to feel postmodern and pan-African and, you know, just, yeah, just to have a, you know,
00:03:41a very contemporary feel about it.
00:03:42So, where did this come from, that beads are so popular for, for the art in South Africa?
00:03:49Well, you know, traditionally, you know, back in the 1400s, 1500s, 1600s, when traders would come to Africa,
00:03:56they would bring beads and that was a currency that would trade for food for, you know, various things.
00:04:02And, you know, that started this amazing, you know, tradition of African beadwork, which is, you know, incredible.
00:04:09The skills and whatever involved in it. So, you know, that's kind of how it came.
00:04:14There is no bead factory in the African continent, which is something I found out when I started working, you
00:04:20know, in beads.
00:04:21So, originally, the beads were Marana glass from Italy and when Marana stopped doing it,
00:04:26they are Preciosa from Bohemia and Czechia, Czech Republic.
00:04:30That's interesting. Yeah. Cool.
00:04:31So, you have one pretty, yeah, amazing piece here that's just the model of it, but this also exists in
00:04:41real.
00:04:42Yes. And this model is incredibly anatomically correct to what we made.
00:04:48I mean, the actual MIG itself, which we beaded, is 52 foot long, 24 foot wide and about 20 foot
00:04:58high.
00:04:59And this is a very accurate scale model. We had it 3D printed.
00:05:05We made it up, you know, on a computer in a CAD type program.
00:05:10And there were only, I think it was a new printer. There's only two of them in the United States
00:05:16that could print this kind of detail in color.
00:05:20But, yeah, it's because we can't have the real plane here. It's a nice reminder of it.
00:05:26Where's the plane now?
00:05:27The plane is in storage. We just brought it back from Seattle a few weeks ago.
00:05:32So, it was up at the Museum of Flight in Seattle for about six, seven months.
00:05:39And where did you get this plane from?
00:05:43We got it from a company in Florida.
00:05:46You know, the MIG-21 was the most mass-produced fighter aircraft of all time.
00:05:50There was 12,000, 14,000 of them made.
00:05:53It was part of a squadron that was bought by a US arms contractor from the Polish Air Force.
00:06:00And it was supposed to be used in something called aggressive squadrons.
00:06:04That's where you get a squadron of, you know, Russian planes or Chinese planes.
00:06:09And you get to test them against, you know, your aircraft.
00:06:13But these aircraft didn't have proper service records, so they were never used.
00:06:17And it was sitting on a runway and they said, you can come and take one.
00:06:20So, we did.
00:06:22But do you have a storage problem?
00:06:25No, not really.
00:06:28Because before we could even start affixing the beads to it, we had to engineer it.
00:06:33So, the wings come off and they stack on a cart.
00:06:35They're only about 12 foot high.
00:06:36The tail fins come off.
00:06:38The top of the tail comes off.
00:06:40You know, the airspeed indicator comes off.
00:06:43The drop tanks come off and they all go onto crates and carts.
00:06:46So, you can wheel it around.
00:06:48When we took it up to Seattle, it was on three flatbed trucks in crates and stuff.
00:06:54But it took us two days to get it put together.
00:06:58One day with some riggers and, you know, and some equipment.
00:07:01And then the second day just on our own.
00:07:04Cool.
00:07:05Yeah.
00:07:06Yeah.
00:07:07What else do we have?
00:07:07I mean, you have a huge space here.
00:07:09Yes.
00:07:11These were some of the costumes we made up for the photo shoot.
00:07:14And you'll see some pictures as we go along.
00:07:18We did these for the photo shoot.
00:07:20And then we thought we'd really like them to be part of the exhibition.
00:07:24So, we put a lot of detail in.
00:07:26You can see some of the beadwork.
00:07:28There's pieces of the MIG in here.
00:07:31These were rivets we'd cast off the MIG.
00:07:34So, it's a little bit of everything.
00:07:36You know, we did the helmets and whatever.
00:07:37If you look over here, this has got a lot of...
00:07:40These are pieces that we'd taken off the MIG, off the inside of it.
00:07:44So, you know, it all kind of...
00:07:47Yeah.
00:07:49It was a mixture of some of the beaded pieces that didn't make it onto the airplane.
00:07:55And, you know, a lot of...
00:07:56These are pieces that came off the actual aircraft.
00:08:01And here there's some more pieces.
00:08:02You can see with the Russian Cyrillic writing on them.
00:08:08Great.
00:08:09I kind of really loved this guy with his helmet and the wings.
00:08:13And, you know, we wanted to do...
00:08:16To feel, you know, sort of...
00:08:19You know, Afro-futuristic.
00:08:21To have that kind of a vibe to it.
00:08:24I can show you...
00:08:25I'll show you some of the prints when we get over there.
00:08:27But if you look in the catalog over here,
00:08:30these were photos we did of the MIG when we were done.
00:08:36And the idea was to create this world.
00:08:39You can see the sort of cinematic influences.
00:08:43Yeah, I love the Afro-futurism.
00:08:46Yeah.
00:08:47I think they had an exhibition at the Venice Biennial.
00:08:51Oh, really? Yeah.
00:08:52Seven years ago.
00:08:53Or at least one artist was in the show, in the main show.
00:08:56Yeah, I'd love to have seen this.
00:08:58Yeah.
00:08:59So this was done in a warehouse just down the road from here.
00:09:02We used different colored smoke.
00:09:04We had lighting.
00:09:05We had...
00:09:05We did, you know, approached it very much like a film shoot in many ways.
00:09:09So that was really interesting.
00:09:13Wow.
00:09:21So this was number two in the series of weapons of mass production.
00:09:28First in the series was the AK-47, which was the most mass produced, you know, weapon of all time.
00:09:35It's done more damage.
00:09:36It's killed more people than HIV, AIDS and the atom bomb put together.
00:09:41And it proliferated.
00:09:43When I started doing it, the idea was, you know, always seeing AK-47s coming into Africa,
00:09:49always seeing them, you know, whether it be Somali pirates or the Shining Path,
00:09:54or even the way in South Africa, it was seen as a weapon of liberation.
00:09:58And yet it had become a scourge of crime, you know, in modern day Johannesburg.
00:10:03So we wanted to make non-lethal, beautiful AK-47s out of beads and wire in South Africa
00:10:08and export them to the rest of the world.
00:10:10We wanted to reverse the arms trade and talk about the arms trade.
00:10:14And, you know, for each one we sold, it represented a month of living expenses
00:10:18for the artisans I was working with.
00:10:21And that's kind of how I got started.
00:10:24The second was the Casper.
00:10:26It was a police vehicle designed in South Africa as a police vehicle in the late 70s, early 80s.
00:10:34It was very much a weapon of oppression by the apartheid government.
00:10:38And we wanted to take it back.
00:10:40We wanted to own it.
00:10:41We wanted to, you know, cover it in beads, make it African and really talk about it.
00:10:46Because the Casper made its way over to America with the second Gulf War.
00:10:51You know, when the Americans were being hit by roadside bombs and buried bombs and landmines and ambushes,
00:10:57they bought them these exact apartheid vehicles off the South African arms industry.
00:11:03And they used them to patrol in places like Fallujah and Baghdad.
00:11:09They renamed it, well, the Casper was an anagram of the Council for Strategic and Industrial Research
00:11:16and the South African police.
00:11:18The Americans rebranded it the MRAP, Mine Resistant Ambush Protected.
00:11:23You know, when we showed it in Seattle, I met four soldiers who said they were in one of those
00:11:28exactly the same in Afghanistan.
00:11:32And I said to them, do you know the history of it?
00:11:34And they said, yes, they started in the U.S. in about 2003.
00:11:39And I go, no, that comes from South Africa circa 1978.
00:11:44So once we beaded it, we took it back into Soweto and we recreated photos from the 80s and 90s.
00:11:52You know, so we went from the most produced handgun or gun in the world to what is now really
00:11:59one of the most produced armoured personnel carriers
00:12:02and then onto the MiG-21, which is the most prolifically produced supersonic fighter jet of all time.
00:12:11So these were a couple of test prints we did of the MiG-21.
00:12:17It was a photo shoot.
00:12:19Like I said, we shot down the road from here and, you know, adjacent to the LA River.
00:12:32And this is some of the merchandise that we sold in the gift shop in Seattle.
00:12:39It was made by the artisans and they sold it as their own work over there.
00:12:45So, yeah, any questions?
00:12:47What is it?
00:12:48Oh, this is a hippo skull.
00:12:50It's not a real hippo skull, but, you know, at the time I wanted to talk about how trophy hunting
00:12:56had become such a craze in South Africa.
00:13:02When I'd fly from Atlanta, when you got to Johannesburg Airport and I'd go and pick up my art supplies
00:13:08at the oversized baggage,
00:13:10I'd count 12, 15, 21 hunting rifles.
00:13:14And these guys would come, they'd pick up the hunting rifles.
00:13:17They'd all be dressed like Ted Nugent in their bush gear and they'd go off to kill things.
00:13:22And you can shoot any animal you like in Southern Africa for the right amount of money.
00:13:26People were paying half a million dollars to shoot one of the last surviving Northern white rhinos.
00:13:33You know, it's become a whole industry.
00:13:35So I really wanted to talk about the beauty of these animals and, you know, why it wasn't enough just
00:13:41to take photographs
00:13:42and leave footprints and, you know, enjoy these animals and why people were coming halfway around the world just to
00:13:49kill something.
00:13:50I, you know, drove me to distraction, I think.
00:14:03Since when do you have this space?
00:14:06You've had it since 2017.
00:14:08So we've been fixing it up.
00:14:10It's been a work in progress the whole time.
00:14:12So, you know, it's nine years we've been in here.
00:14:17When we moved in, it was just empty, four empty bays.
00:14:20But, you know, as we've worked our way through it, you know, we've picked up things along the way.
00:14:26And, you know, we've had artist friends who've given us work and their work.
00:14:30So the whole thing's taken on a kind of a life of its own.
00:14:33And these are some more photos from the MIG.
00:14:38This was a series I did and had an exhibition with a graffiti writer called Bisco Smith,
00:14:44where we kind of merged our style.
00:14:46He works in black and white, I work in color.
00:14:48So I guess he won that one.
00:14:51But it was just really wonderful working with him.
00:14:56And this is one of your workspaces here or PC terminals?
00:15:01Yeah, this is my workspace.
00:15:05This is where I do a lot of the, you know, the design work.
00:15:12So, yeah, I can move this out of the way.
00:15:17But yeah, so this is where I do it.
00:15:20And then we've got a space where we do more of the practical work.
00:15:23And I can show you that as well.
00:15:29It's a nice atmosphere in here.
00:15:31Yeah, it is.
00:15:31Outside is quite hot at the moment.
00:15:33But this is…
00:15:34And you still have natural light.
00:15:37Yes.
00:15:37No, it's beautiful.
00:15:39And outside, it was a railway track back in the day and people would come and graffiti it.
00:15:44So we've left all the original graffiti up.
00:15:52And we tried to keep, you know, the…
00:15:56We kept the train tracks.
00:15:58We filled it in so you could walk on it.
00:16:00But yeah, it's kind of really beautiful.
00:16:04It's like part of the High Line, you know.
00:16:06High Line.
00:16:06Exactly.
00:16:08And this we designed as an artist friend built it.
00:16:12It was kind of like a train tunnel.
00:16:15But, you know, we kind of needed it for shade.
00:16:19Now my daughter is working here.
00:16:20She works in glass and she's taken over the space.
00:16:34This is kind of a space where we do entertaining.
00:16:38It's a space where when we have a team, we all have lunch and whatever.
00:16:43I can show you around in a little bit.
00:16:45Let's move on.
00:16:56Hey, this is Paul, our cinematographer, videographer.
00:17:00Hi, Paul.
00:17:00This is Edit Space.
00:17:01Hi.
00:17:06What are you working on at the moment?
00:17:08Right now, we're working on this, like, 15-minute video about our time at the Museum of Flight, basically.
00:17:18The show with the MiG?
00:17:19Yeah, exactly.
00:17:20The exhibition over there and, you know, how they put it together and stuff.
00:17:26Yeah, nice.
00:17:27All right.
00:17:28And we've got a small photography film studio over here.
00:17:35You know, some of my equipment from back in the day and we use it.
00:17:39We, you know, the idea was always to have a kind of a multimedia, you know, way of showing the
00:17:47art and making the films and doing the photographs, etc.
00:17:50So, yeah, this is the space.
00:17:54And…
00:17:55I want to ask you, I mean, you said it sounds so easy.
00:17:59You started with photography and then film business.
00:18:02But for some people, it's not that easy to get into these jobs.
00:18:08How did you do that?
00:18:09It's never been easy, but, you know, when…
00:18:16I mean, you know, art, you need some paints and some brushes and whatever and photography, maybe a camera.
00:18:24I was lucky enough to get a job in television when I left school.
00:18:29And when I went to the United Kingdom, when I went to London in the early 80s, was the early
00:18:33days of music videos.
00:18:35I had a Bolex camera, which is the one thing I brought with me from South Africa.
00:18:39I got a job working at a production company making tea and, you know, going out to buy people cigarettes
00:18:46and bottles of wine.
00:18:47But I would get the film that was left over from the shoots.
00:18:51I would…
00:18:52We'd re-can it.
00:18:53I'd use it in the Bolex.
00:18:54I'd shoot little bits on some of the music videos for some of the established directors who were always happy
00:19:00to have an extra camera there, you know.
00:19:02I was the runner, but, you know, every now and then they'd say, get your camera out and do a
00:19:06shot of this and that.
00:19:06And then I'd take the scraps of film that were left and I started making my own films.
00:19:12I'd put it through the lab with some of the bigger jobs and then I would use the edit suite
00:19:17to cut it together and show it to record companies.
00:19:21So people said, oh, he made a short film with no money.
00:19:24Maybe if we give him five thousand pounds, he could do something and, you know, and you work your way
00:19:28up that way.
00:19:31So, yeah, you know, it's a process, but…
00:19:35And it's never easy.
00:19:37It is always difficult.
00:19:38But I think if you enjoy the steps along the way, if you enjoy actually doing it, that's the most
00:19:43important thing, you know.
00:19:45It's not getting there.
00:19:46It's the journey.
00:19:48It's not the destination.
00:19:49Yeah.
00:19:50Yeah.
00:19:51And if you're an artist, you have to do that.
00:19:52You have to, yeah.
00:19:53It's not a job as a regular job.
00:19:55I always have to have some kind of a visual creative outlet or I start, you know, going a little
00:20:00bit mad.
00:20:02Nice.
00:20:08Oh, a lot of batteries to charge.
00:20:11Yes.
00:20:11I know that.
00:20:12You know all about that then, yes.
00:20:15Power is everything.
00:20:17Yes.
00:20:17And storage.
00:20:17Power and storage, yes.
00:20:20We have 80 terabytes in here.
00:20:2280?
00:20:22Okay.
00:20:23Do you use…
00:20:24Because I switch to tape or not switch, but the archive is on tape.
00:20:30Do you use that as well?
00:20:31You mean like physical tape?
00:20:32Yeah.
00:20:33LTO?
00:20:34I know I haven't gotten into it, but I know that's the way to archive is to LTO.
00:20:41Because I was hesitant for years, but then…
00:20:44Yeah.
00:20:44Archiving is always a thing because, you know, sooner or later there's nothing to read.
00:20:48Your floppy disks or, you know, like all that stuff changes.
00:20:51I mean…
00:20:52Hard drives fail.
00:20:54They do fail, yeah.
00:20:56Hard drives fail quicker than like tape.
00:20:58Tape is like the most…
00:20:59I mean, it's interesting because when I first worked in television, they went… they had
00:21:04two-inch tape.
00:21:05And the way they used to edit it was like put iron filings on it and there'd be seven lines
00:21:10and they'd cut on the fourth line and they'd splice the tape together.
00:21:14And then it was like one-inch tape, then pneumatics, then, you know, a whole process.
00:21:19I mean, beta cam and VHS and a lot of those things just dropped by the wayside and, you
00:21:26know…
00:21:27Yeah, I can remember, you know, the first things were DV tapes.
00:21:31Yeah.
00:21:31DV tapes, of course, yeah.
00:21:33And then…
00:21:34Also, yeah, all these…
00:21:36These storage devices, you know, zip drives.
00:21:40Zip drive, yeah.
00:21:42Zip drives and things like that.
00:21:44And, yeah, you have to…
00:21:45You copy it from the old things, the new things and it's…
00:21:49It's really a pain in the ass.
00:21:50It is a pain in the ass.
00:21:52Good.
00:21:52So, let's carry on.
00:21:53Shall we go and have a look at the Casper?
00:21:55Mm-hmm.
00:22:04Put some lights on.
00:22:06Hey, guys.
00:22:12So, this is our production space.
00:22:15This is Nick and Max and Dorian.
00:22:19Nick is the…
00:22:24I forget your title.
00:22:26Project manager.
00:22:27Nick runs everything.
00:22:28You know, he's really took the lead on the MIG and, you know, the engineering and how
00:22:34everything was done and also as an artist and has a, you know, very big artistic input
00:22:39into the whole process.
00:22:41So, if you want to ask him any questions, that's also cool.
00:22:44Yeah.
00:22:45Tell me about your day.
00:22:46You know, when does it start?
00:22:48What do you do?
00:22:48And…
00:22:50Maybe we have to…
00:22:52Oh, can you stand?
00:22:53I'll stand by his mic.
00:22:54Yeah, because…
00:22:55The mic.
00:22:56Yeah.
00:22:58Yeah.
00:22:58So, we just work about four days a week.
00:23:027 a.m. to 4 p.m.
00:23:04and do whatever needs to get done.
00:23:11For the MIG, you know, right now we have, you know, about 3 or 4 people here every day
00:23:18working on stuff.
00:23:19But for the MIG, we had anywhere between just me and Ralph to, you know, like 15 people at
00:23:27a time.
00:23:30And…
00:23:31Yeah, and coordinating with the team in South Africa.
00:23:34And coordinating with the South Africa routine too, yeah, which is a lot of WhatsApp
00:23:37and sending stuff back and forth and lots of pictures and calls in the middle of the
00:23:44night.
00:23:47But, yeah, yeah, right now we're kind of working on some newer stuff and some different beaded
00:23:54panels and just doing some new ideas and trying to see what's next for everything.
00:24:03Yep.
00:24:03How big is the team in South Africa?
00:24:05Well, full-time team there's six men and Lady Tenjiwe with, you know, two, three women.
00:24:13But she can expand to about 70, 80 women in the rural areas who can do this amazing, you
00:24:19know, beadwork and, you know, incredible detail work.
00:24:22Look, you see like the piece behind Cindy over there, which is waiting for a frame.
00:24:27But if you get close, you can see how incredible it is, the red one, the detail.
00:24:40We can turn on more lights too.
00:24:43You know what I'm doing?
00:24:45And right now what we're, the coordination we're doing with the MiG was like a lot more
00:24:53than what we're doing right now, but kind of what we're doing right now is we're working
00:24:57on all these panels and we're trying to build the frames.
00:25:02So I don't know if you saw in the front office on the ping pong table, we have all those.
00:25:07Did we just shoot?
00:25:07No, I'll take you there and see.
00:25:10We have like the individual pieces of these frames.
00:25:13So we're trying to figure out how to like do this kind of stuff where we don't have to
00:25:19send this whole panel back to Africa because that's a lot for shipping.
00:25:23So we're having them build these frames in like single pieces.
00:25:29So it's actually kind of the hardest thing we've ever done to get them to fit right and,
00:25:35and get everything.
00:25:37Yeah.
00:25:38It would be a whole different story if they were in the studio in South Africa, which is.
00:25:42Right.
00:25:42Cause we could, they could just have this and they could just build it on there.
00:25:45But we're trying just, you know, we send this, this color design, we send the dimensions,
00:25:51how thick it is, how thick it is here.
00:25:54And, um, you know, on the MiG there's always one little thing that would get messed up, but
00:25:59it would be fine.
00:25:59But on something like this, if one little thing's messed up, then it doesn't work.
00:26:03So it's, it's kind of crazily the hardest thing we've ever done.
00:26:07Oh, here's some of the frames have arrived.
00:26:08Here's some of the pieces.
00:26:12Um, so yeah, just so that we don't have to send back and forth a big giant thing.
00:26:18Yeah.
00:26:19And this is a little bit of like how we work.
00:26:21So we would make up a template like this and then, you know, we'd send it to South Africa.
00:26:32They would make this up.
00:26:34It's the other way around, right?
00:26:35I think it's, oh yeah.
00:26:36Where's the yellow?
00:26:38Yeah.
00:26:40Yeah.
00:26:40Maybe not.
00:26:41Yeah.
00:26:42It's sort of.
00:26:43There's always like, they're always a little bit different.
00:26:46Yeah.
00:26:46Yeah.
00:26:46You know, what will happen is the ladies will run out of one color and they still want to
00:26:51finish it and get paid.
00:26:52So they just substitute, which makes it a little bit random, but really nice.
00:26:56So you can see this is going to go inside here and this will be a piece.
00:27:01And yeah, so it's, it's very much about, um, you know, sending and getting the work back,
00:27:10you know, the details really incredible.
00:27:13The, the work is really incredible.
00:27:16Yeah.
00:27:17Sometimes random is good.
00:27:19Random is good.
00:27:20You know?
00:27:20Yes.
00:27:21Yeah.
00:27:21Like this is a piece that like we, we, um, we, we wanted to make for the, the fuel tanks
00:27:28of the MIG to go around seams, but it just didn't work.
00:27:31So it turns out that it fit this piece perfect.
00:27:36And now we can use it for that.
00:27:38Yeah.
00:27:39You can see how this is the same.
00:27:44So that's, that's kind of the technique we work with.
00:27:46And we can do a little bit of the bead work here to adjust things and make things fit perfect.
00:27:51But for the most part, we, we leave that all to Africa.
00:27:55And then if we've kind of learned a little bit how to like adjust things if we need to.
00:28:00Yeah.
00:28:01What, what's amazing is how damn hard it is, you know?
00:28:04It's real hard.
00:28:05Yeah.
00:28:05I mean, it looks effortless.
00:28:07It is unbelievably difficult.
00:28:09A lot of things that look, uh, simple are not that simple to make.
00:28:14Yeah.
00:28:14Yes.
00:28:15You know, I don't know.
00:28:17It took us what?
00:28:17Five and a half years doing the MIG?
00:28:19Yeah.
00:28:21And, um.
00:28:22Five and a half years.
00:28:23Yeah.
00:28:23How many beads was it?
00:28:2435?
00:28:25I think it was 40, 40 something, 40 million something beads.
00:28:29So, you know, that's all handmade one bead at a time.
00:28:33So it's quite a process.
00:28:38But if the, the result is so, uh, yeah, exciting, then, uh, it's worth it.
00:28:43You know, it's incredible.
00:28:45It feels very satisfying.
00:28:47Yeah.
00:28:47I can imagine that.
00:28:49And, you know, it's just, uh, I, I like working with people.
00:28:53I know a lot of artists are solitary, but it is really nice, you know, working with a team
00:28:59of people and having the input and their expertise and their opinions.
00:29:03And that's kind of the way we like to work.
00:29:07Yeah.
00:29:07When I first started here, I kind of just like got used to how Ralph liked to work and
00:29:15kind of picked up on it over the first few weeks.
00:29:19And then, um, later on when I started bringing in more people to, to come and help us, they're
00:29:25like, what are we supposed to do?
00:29:27And I'm like, just start working, just start doing stuff.
00:29:29Uh, you're here because Ralph wants your input and your creativity, and he wants to collaborate
00:29:35with you.
00:29:35And as soon as you start doing something, he's going to jump in and he's going to start guiding
00:29:40everything.
00:29:41And, uh, that makes Ralph a really fun collaborator to work with.
00:29:44And it, and it, and it kind of seamlessly allows people with like really amazing skills to use
00:29:52those skills that they're best at and kind of find a way into the project and how they
00:29:57can help the best.
00:29:58Yeah.
00:29:59So you're not forcing them to do something they not, uh, sometimes people get forced to
00:30:04do something that they don't want to do.
00:30:05But for the most part, we like to like, to use their individual.
00:30:10Yeah.
00:30:10Like, like we bring people in for specific things, like people that I've known or worked
00:30:15with over the years or people Ralph who Ralph has worked with over the years.
00:30:19Um, we, we, we know who's, who's, who works best for what.
00:30:23Yeah.
00:30:23And also to like bringing in people who like some people that I know from like doing, um,
00:30:31like special effects work, you know, bringing in a mold maker who's really good at making
00:30:36molds.
00:30:36He's going to make one or two molds, but then he gets to do a bunch of this stuff that
00:30:41he normally doesn't get to do that.
00:30:44He's actually really good at, but he doesn't get to do it because everywhere just makes
00:30:47them make molds, you know?
00:30:49So it's a little bit of, of everything.
00:30:53It's been nice that it's, it's, it's, it's sad that the entertainment business isn't going
00:30:58so well over the past few years and all through COVID while we were doing this, it was pretty
00:31:03bad, but we were kind of able to capitalize on that because there are a lot of really,
00:31:07really, um, yeah.
00:31:09Amazingly talented people who were available for long periods of time or I had a very flexible
00:31:14schedule and we were able to bring them in and we all had a great time.
00:31:18No one ever wanted to leave.
00:31:19Yeah.
00:31:20It was a lot of fun.
00:31:22It really was.
00:31:24Great.
00:31:25Yeah.
00:31:25So these are the beads.
00:31:27You can see how tiny they are.
00:31:28So you think how many of those go into something of this size and let's take you next door to
00:31:34see the Casper.
00:31:35Mm-hmm.
00:31:45Yeah.
00:31:46So this is a fabrication wood shop, um, you know, where a lot of stuff gets made.
00:32:06And here we have the Casper.
00:32:11Wow.
00:32:12It's huge.
00:32:13It's.
00:32:14I only know it from the films, you know.
00:32:16Right.
00:32:17So, yeah, come, come down here.
00:32:19I think when you, when you stand towards the, you know, when you're not up high, you start
00:32:25getting a feeling of how big and imposing this thing really is.
00:32:30You know, it's, uh, and then look at the detail.
00:32:34We've done the wheels.
00:32:35It runs.
00:32:35It's all functional.
00:32:37It drives, you know, the drive shaft, the leaf springs, everything is functional.
00:32:42We thought if we were going to spend so much time doing something, it had to be able to
00:32:46drive.
00:32:47Yeah.
00:32:48Do you drive around in Los Angeles or something?
00:32:51We do.
00:32:51We do sometimes.
00:32:52Not so much at the moment since ice is driving around in the real things.
00:32:56Yeah.
00:32:57But, uh, yeah, we can come around.
00:33:00You can look inside the back and, uh,
00:33:13it's like a party bus.
00:33:19Well, it's got quite a history to it.
00:33:33But you look underneath, everything's done.
00:33:35You know, everything's done and everything's functional.
00:33:39Now the MIG is more than twice as long, more than four times as wide and twice as high.
00:33:45So you get an idea.
00:33:51It really has a frightening size.
00:33:53It is frightening.
00:33:54I mean, it was built to intimidate, you know, and you think this was a reaction to 14 year
00:33:59old kids throwing stones at police cars in 1976.
00:34:04And this is, you know, people think it's a military vehicle.
00:34:07It wasn't.
00:34:08It was a police vehicle.
00:34:10And, you know, part of the story we wanted to tell is how it made its way to America.
00:34:14How did this vehicle that started in South Africa as a apartheid police car wind up on
00:34:21the streets of Ferguson, Missouri and Black Lives Matter protests with white cops sitting
00:34:26on top with machine guns.
00:34:28And there was, you know, there was a lot of PTSD and that was very much the story we wanted
00:34:34to tell.
00:34:35Yeah.
00:34:47Needs a good clean, but otherwise all good.
00:34:57And these were some paintings.
00:34:59We did live paintings when we had the show in Los Angeles.
00:35:05I collaborated with Bisca Smith on this one.
00:35:11Moncho 1929 on that.
00:35:13Maria Greenshield Zeeman, my wife and I did the one with the tree.
00:35:17And I did this with Kiatama, who's a very talented South African artist, who's a young
00:35:24South African artist, really, really talented.
00:35:29Yeah.
00:35:30Yeah.
00:35:30So I think that's, that's the space.
00:35:36I don't know if you've got any other questions or.
00:35:40Yeah.
00:35:41I mean, the, what I want to ask you, the art of the Renden, do you also have there several,
00:35:49yeah, projects, you know, the hotel, the residency.
00:35:54Yeah.
00:35:54We were doing that.
00:35:55We're doing a lot of residency.
00:35:56This room was used a lot for artists in residence.
00:36:00You know, friends, artists who needed a place to work.
00:36:03We had a couple of young Ukrainian artists who came back over here when the war started,
00:36:07and they worked here for six months.
00:36:10An amazing artist called JD Smith, who does World War II battleships.
00:36:15Bisco Smith did a residency here.
00:36:18So it's, it's just been a kind of an informal residency.
00:36:21We've kind of loved the energy of having different artists and different people come through.
00:36:27You know, art at the Renden, we're doing a lot of programming prior to COVID.
00:36:32You know, we did three big events there.
00:36:34One was an art event with the 40, 50 different artists.
00:36:37One was an interactive theater piece.
00:36:40And then there was a musical piece called The Rhythms of the City.
00:36:43And, you know, Paul can probably show you a clip of that if you're interested.
00:36:48Yeah.
00:36:48And then COVID kind of put a stop to it and we haven't really got it up and running again.
00:36:52But, you know, that's, that's something for down the line, you know, COVID seems to have changed a lot, you
00:36:59know,
00:36:59and some things bounce back and some, you know, haven't really.
00:37:04Yeah, COVID really everywhere.
00:37:07You know, you talk to people that have restaurants.
00:37:10Yeah.
00:37:11Producers.
00:37:13Yeah, it's.
00:37:13Yeah, the film business died.
00:37:15So much stuff went away, you know, and hasn't really come back.
00:37:19Yeah.
00:37:19Yeah.
00:37:21It's quite sad.
00:37:25So your new pro, are there any new projects?
00:37:29There's some new things that are kicking around, which I think would be really up your street,
00:37:34but we don't, we can't really talk about them yet.
00:37:37We talked a little bit about them before you switch the camera on.
00:37:41So, yeah, it's, you know, we, we just hoping to get a confirmation on, on something.
00:37:47But, you know, failing that, we've got a lot of ideas of our own stuff to do, so.
00:37:52Yeah.
00:37:53Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.
00:37:54And next time, you know.
00:37:56Yeah.
00:37:56No, definitely.
00:37:57Great to cover it.
00:37:58For sure.
00:37:59Absolutely.
00:37:59Where, whereabouts do you live?
00:38:01In Basel, Switzerland.
00:38:03Oh, okay.
00:38:04So, but I'm, I'm here almost every year.
00:38:07And maybe in October again.
00:38:09Yeah.
00:38:09Come and visit whenever you're here.
00:38:11Come over for lunch or coffee or whatever, whether you're filming or not.
00:38:14And hopefully we'll be on to our next project by then.
00:38:17Well, Ralph's always collaborating, no matter what.
00:38:19Whoever he's, like, whatever's happening, he, people want to work with Ralph,
00:38:24and there's always collaborative opportunities.
00:38:26So, we always have projects here.
00:38:28Yeah.
00:38:28Yeah.
00:38:29I mean, it was really very, very kind of you to let me see everything here.
00:38:33Yeah.
00:38:34Because it's, you know, you see a lot of that stuff on the internet, of course,
00:38:39and you can research a little bit, but it's a different thing.
00:38:41If, when you're here and experience the room.
00:38:45Yeah.
00:38:45And you know what?
00:38:45The whole thing about this, you know, the MIG is, you know, it's not a digital clone.
00:38:52It's not a AI thing.
00:38:54It's, it's real life and you have to come and see it and experience it.
00:38:58You know, yes, you can look at stuff on the internet, but it's not the same.
00:39:03So, what we do, we want to exist in the real world as much as we want to use, you
00:39:08know,
00:39:08the digital world to promote it and get the word out.
00:39:11I think it's really important to have, like, real life objects, you know.
00:39:15Yeah.
00:39:15And especially because a lot of Ralph's work is based around having educational programming
00:39:20and working with DD Care, who's our philanthropic partner.
00:39:26Yeah.
00:39:26Did you talk about the arts?
00:39:27No, we haven't.
00:39:28But, you know, it's, it's really been about, you know, working with the people in Africa,
00:39:35working with our team in Africa, putting the kids through school and university
00:39:39and creating opportunities because, you know, kids have grown up in those inner cities,
00:39:45haven't had role models, haven't had people to look up to.
00:39:48And that's, you know, and I think it's educating them and getting them to find ways
00:39:55where they can make a living, where they can thrive, where they can do well,
00:39:58where they can bring their, you know, intelligence and artistic skills and everything to bear
00:40:02in ways that they hadn't perhaps thought of.
00:40:05Um, DD Care also does micro-financing loans, you know, for the wives and people to set up,
00:40:13you know, businesses and to make a living.
00:40:15So, you know, that's been a part of it, which has been really also really rewarding.
00:40:21Um, you know, they're just a wonderful team of people who work with in Africa
00:40:26and we're very close with them and the families.
00:40:28And, you know, we, um, you know, they were guys who, when I met them,
00:40:35they were working on the street, they were selling stuff by the side of the road.
00:40:38And, you know, they've stepped up and they run the studio in South Africa by themselves now.
00:40:44And they've just been amazing.
00:40:46You know, it's been a revelation before COVID.
00:40:49I was back there five times a year.
00:40:51Since COVID, I haven't been back, but the studios kept running and maybe better than ever before.
00:40:57Yeah, that was when I was in Cape Town for the Zeitsmoker opening years ago.
00:41:02Yes.
00:41:04Actually, when Zeitsmoker opened, this was showing at the National Gallery in Cape Town, the Casper.
00:41:08Ah, okay.
00:41:08Uh-huh.
00:41:09Yeah.
00:41:09Yeah, because what you said, you know, a lot of guys selling things on the street.
00:41:14Yes.
00:41:14And they were really good.
00:41:16Yes.
00:41:16It was not trash.
00:41:18It was really good stuff that they, um, good artwork that they sold.
00:41:22Yeah.
00:41:22Oh, it absolutely is.
00:41:23Yeah.
00:41:24And also at Zeitsmoker, so many talented artists from there.
00:41:28Yeah.
00:41:28I was really blown away.
00:41:29And also my colleague.
00:41:30Yeah.
00:41:30And, um, you know, we had this show in Basel, this group show that was also in, um, at Zeitsmoker.
00:41:37But, uh, unfortunately, you know, it's still, um, not many artists from South Africa are shown as, you know, solo
00:41:46exhibitions.
00:41:47Yeah.
00:41:48Um, because they had so many talents and still it's not very known what they do.
00:41:53And, uh, for me it was really revelation.
00:41:55Yeah.
00:41:55South Africa is still trying to escape that, you know, during apartheid there was a cultural
00:42:01boycott and artists weren't allowed to show their work and you were boycotted if you're
00:42:06an artist or sing.
00:42:07And, you know, I think there is a kind of a hangover from that, you know, that somehow,
00:42:14you know, South African artists have had a hard time establishing themselves.
00:42:18And there's been some, I mean, there are some incredibly talented people, but then there
00:42:22are people like William Kentridge who's done amazing.
00:42:25And, you know, I think he's probably the best artist in the world as far as I'm concerned.
00:42:29Um, but yeah, there are fantastic artists there.
00:42:33And, you know, we just need to see more of them breaking through.
00:42:37Yeah.
00:42:37As I see, as I said, not only the, the star artists, but also, yeah, there's a lot of
00:42:43to discover.
00:42:45Yeah.
00:42:45There's a lot.
00:42:46And there's a lot of depth and, you know, the work is kind of unusual, you know, it doesn't
00:42:52look like everything else you see.
00:42:54Yeah.
00:42:57So, what do you want to, what do we want to do?
00:43:02Do you want to talk a little bit?
00:43:03I love how you just brought up that collaborative we.
00:43:06What do we want to do?
00:43:07You know, I mean, it feels so familiar somehow.
00:43:11Yeah.
00:43:11It's great.
00:43:13Yeah.
00:43:13It's a nice conversation.
00:43:14I don't know.
00:43:15Do you have something that, um, we could, um, for record, you know, um, I mean, you,
00:43:22you, uh, you know, friends of, uh, the Sites Mocha, I don't know.
00:43:26American friends of Sites Mocha.
00:43:27Cindy, yeah, you can talk about that.
00:43:28I mean, we can talk a little bit about Sites Mocha and if you want me to.
00:43:31It's, yeah, it's more Cindy than me at Sites Mocha, but she's, she can talk about it for
00:43:36sure.
00:43:37Yeah, if you want me to talk about how I just came back and, I mean, we are working
00:43:41on the possibility of Ralph being there next year, which would be really, really interesting
00:43:49because, um, for him to be in Cape Town when he's already had the, for the trilogy, he's
00:43:55already had the AK-47 project, he's had the Casper project at the National Gallery, so they
00:44:01aren't familiar with the MIG project.
00:44:03So to bring the MIG project and bring it all full circle back to Cape Town would be incredible.
00:44:09And, and there is a demand for that, so I am working on that.
00:44:13Yeah, cool.
00:44:14And how did you, uh, become, uh, what was the reason, or, yeah, how did you become friends
00:44:20or American friends?
00:44:21American friends of Sites Mocha?
00:44:22Yeah.
00:44:22Yeah, um, because I, I, first of all, I work with Ralph, who's a South African artist,
00:44:27and, um, so becoming a friend, American friends of Sites Mocha was really important to me.
00:44:32Um, working with a South African artist, and also, um, I've just always been involved with
00:44:37South Africa in one way or another, um, whether it's through the surf community and the culture
00:44:42that they have there, or the art community.
00:44:45Um, I've always been involved with them, and so I just got involved with the group, which
00:44:49is a really fun group.
00:44:50We all travel together, and we all share different types of cultural activities, going, whether
00:44:56it's to New York, Miami.
00:44:58Yeah, Miami, I know.
00:45:00Miami, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:45:01You saw us in Miami, Cape Towns and myself.
00:45:05We, that's where we met you.
00:45:06Yeah.
00:45:07Yeah.
00:45:07Do you want to have a look at Maria's work?
00:45:10Yeah, so, um, Maria, just so you know, Maria, um.
00:45:12Should I just ask her if she wants to?
00:45:14Yes, we just spoke to her, Nick and I.
00:45:16She doesn't want to talk now.
00:45:17All right, let's do that.
00:45:18Let me, yeah, uh, if you stand together, then we can leave it, um, with this, uh, with
00:45:23this mic.
00:45:24Yeah.
00:45:25Yes.
00:45:25Okay.
00:45:25So, it's in the other room?
00:45:27It's in the other room.
00:45:27But I think Maria should talk without me, I mean.
00:45:29What I need to express is that, um, Maria, um, just didn't realize that she was going
00:45:35on camera.
00:45:35She doesn't like to do sit down interviews, but the way that your style is with process
00:45:40and walking around and talking about the process.
00:45:42I put the microphone on her because I don't need to be around.
00:45:45Yeah, that's awesome.
00:45:45She should talk about her own work.
00:45:46Okay, yeah.
00:45:47If anything, Nick might want to jump in.
00:45:49He builds all the frames and some of the, helps her with the light, you know, production
00:45:53side.
00:45:53So, he also project manages her, her work there.
00:45:57So, um, but yeah, for Maria, you know how to get in there.
00:46:02She's just a question.
00:46:04And you can also talk to her about art at the Rendon stuff and, you know, she's been
00:46:08very involved in that.
00:46:09She's the creative director of art at the Rendon.
00:46:12So, um, then Maria's also on the board at the ICA and her secretary.
00:46:17So, this is great.
00:46:19Thanks.
00:46:20So, Maria will have a lot to share with you about her involvement outside of the work here,
00:46:28too.
00:46:30Here you are.
00:46:31She does all the interior design for their projects as well.
00:46:34Yeah.
00:46:35This is a very casual walk-around.
00:46:36Okay.
00:46:38This is it.
00:46:39Hey.
00:46:40Hi.
00:46:41Hi.
00:46:43Yeah.
00:46:43It's not a sit-down interview.
00:46:44Okay.
00:46:45It's just a walk-around and, uh, talk.
00:46:47All right.
00:46:48I'm glad it's not a camera.
00:46:49It's very easy to do.
00:46:49An iPhone I can deal with, but it's a, yeah.
00:46:52Yeah.
00:46:53Very easy conversations.
00:46:55Okay.
00:46:55All right.
00:46:57All right.
00:46:58Bye, Ralph.
00:47:01Yeah.
00:47:02Uh, what are you working on at the moment?
00:47:03Well, at the moment I'm working on, um, getting enough material for a couple of shows I'm
00:47:08about to be having, um, and I'm primarily concentrating on light boxes.
00:47:15Um, so I've been working on those for a little while.
00:47:18I kind of mix it up between light box and then like a two-dimensional painting as well,
00:47:23um, using spray paint and kind of multimedia.
00:47:27Um, so these are, uh, the spray painting and these are the light boxes?
00:47:32Yeah.
00:47:33So, so, so if we talk about light boxes, then it kind of, um, started with me kind of using
00:47:40plants as templates.
00:47:41So I use real life leaves.
00:47:44Um, I call them my victims because they get sprayed over.
00:47:47Um, so I use like real life natural materials, like leaves and, um, just like interesting shapes
00:47:56and patterns.
00:47:57Um, and, um, and I spray over, I kind of pin them to vellum, which is this material, which
00:48:06is like a kind of a, it's like a sort of a transparent paper.
00:48:11Um, and then I have that, um, that sort of image that I've sprayed over, which is a natural
00:48:20image.
00:48:20And then I build up.
00:48:21So I build up layers and layers and layers.
00:48:24So I can, I use tissue paper.
00:48:27I use, um, sometimes even like I'll throw in some natural materials, but then I just,
00:48:34I, so behind this is actually many, many different layers of, um, film tissue paper.
00:48:40Um, you know, sometimes even real tweaks themselves.
00:48:44Um, like here, I think that I actually threw in a bit of a, a bit of a real life.
00:48:51Um, uh, piece of grass there.
00:48:54Is it flickering for you?
00:48:56Are they flickering?
00:48:57They are flickering sometimes.
00:48:59Yeah.
00:48:59It changes constantly the, um, uh, shutter speed.
00:49:03It's the shutter speed.
00:49:03It's the frequency.
00:49:05I had to set it to automatic because, uh, we go out and then.
00:49:09Yeah.
00:49:09It's, it's hard to film.
00:49:11Um, so yeah, so I kind of, it's all about, it's all about layering and using, you know,
00:49:15the natural shapes themselves.
00:49:17And like, for instance, like this is a series that I did about, um, about the indigenous
00:49:23trees of California, um, the native trees.
00:49:27And, um, I was wanting to talk about growth from like sapling to maturity.
00:49:33And so, you know, each, each layer is a different, um, a different part of growth for the tree.
00:49:41And, um, and then what I did is I, as I cut out each piece, I kept each piece.
00:49:47And kept a record of where it went.
00:49:49And then, then this is the negative of the cut out of that.
00:49:52So, um, in the same way as I, I did the, um, the cottonwood, you know, this is the, this
00:50:00is the negative of the positive image.
00:50:04Um, and then with these light boxes, it's again, it's just like, just, you know, trying
00:50:12to bring out an image, trying to bring out the story.
00:50:15Um, using a lot of, a lot of color and layers.
00:50:22And they also designed to be off and on.
00:50:26So it's like a kind of a, it's like a drawing.
00:50:29It works as both.
00:50:30Yeah.
00:50:30So not, people might not want this on the whole time in their homes or whatever, so they can
00:50:34turn it off and then put it on again.
00:50:36Um, so.
00:50:40So nature was also always your interest.
00:50:43It's always been my interest.
00:50:44I grew up in the countryside in Devon.
00:50:47I grew up on a dairy farm in Devon in England.
00:50:50Yeah.
00:50:50And, um, and yeah, it's always just been my, my safe space, I suppose.
00:50:56It's always just been my, um, you know, my inspiration, I suppose.
00:51:02And, you know, just living with those, the flora and fauna of that area and the, the trees
00:51:08and, you know, how they became like the characters in the landscape and also very, very familiar
00:51:13to me and I guess a source of solace as well sometimes.
00:51:17Um, that, you know, I've just always had that affinity with the trees and nature and.
00:51:22Well, you're also inspired by the nature here, you know, and.
00:51:25Yeah.
00:51:25Yeah.
00:51:26It took me a while to be inspired by the California, um, you know, flora, but, um, I'm getting there.
00:51:34I'm still not terribly fond of a palm tree, but they're not terribly indigenous anyway.
00:51:39It's only one species that is, I think.
00:51:41Um, so yeah, I not, but, you know, it took me all the time.
00:51:46It also took me a while to find the beauty in like a, an arid landscape.
00:51:50Cause you know, growing up in Devon, it's incredibly green and verdant and, um, so.
00:51:55Yeah.
00:51:56It's, it's, it's very different.
00:51:57Yeah.
00:51:57It's very different.
00:51:58You're German.
00:51:59Yeah.
00:52:00Yeah.
00:52:00I mean, you, uh, I know black forest.
00:52:02It's totally different.
00:52:03But, um, on the other hand, it's sometimes a really nice to be in a more, um, yeah, not
00:52:12so green area, you know, where you have a little bit more.
00:52:15A little bit more space.
00:52:16Space.
00:52:16Yeah.
00:52:17Exactly.
00:52:17Yeah.
00:52:17And that's, that's, uh, I think a lot of Europeans are drawn into the, you know, the desert.
00:52:22Yeah.
00:52:22Because if you have it all the time, maybe you get tired of it as well.
00:52:27And yeah, and you take it for granted as well, I guess.
00:52:30So change is always, uh, nice.
00:52:32Yeah.
00:52:32I spent a little bit of time in the platform.
00:52:33My mother's German.
00:52:35And, uh, when she grew up in Hanover, but it's very fast in the black forest, but we
00:52:39used to go there on holidays.
00:52:40So it's beautiful.
00:52:41It's lovely.
00:52:42Yeah.
00:52:42Lovely area.
00:52:44I mean, I like, uh, the, um, the desert because it's, um, I mean, I, I like the sun.
00:52:51Mm-hmm.
00:52:51I'm not a guy that's, that likes a lot of, uh, cold, uh, things and, uh, yeah, but, um,
00:52:59um, only desert may be difficult.
00:53:02Yeah.
00:53:03No.
00:53:03Well, I think that would be, that would be pretty hard for me.
00:53:06Um, and then, so, so yeah, so this is, you know, also with the more two-dimensional work,
00:53:14I mean, I started as a sculptor and I, I worked primarily in steel for a very, very long time
00:53:20until I really messed up my shoulders with all the, the bashing of the steel and everything.
00:53:24So now, um, you know, the few pieces I've done in steel recently are like these pieces
00:53:29in the corner here, which is using very thin metal.
00:53:32So there wasn't much bashing involved.
00:53:34Um, but I think I've always been like searching for how to depict three dimensionality in two
00:53:43dimensional form.
00:53:44So, so I feel like, you know, I want to somehow get that feeling of immersion in nature, but,
00:53:55um, but in, you know, on a flat surface.
00:53:59So with these pieces, the process being that I start with completely, I spray all the panels
00:54:05completely black.
00:54:07And, um, so I start with, there's all, you know, just all, all nine panels would be completely
00:54:13sprayed black.
00:54:14And then, um, I layer up.
00:54:17So I layer up the foreground and then I spray and then I layer up the mid ground and I
00:54:22spray
00:54:22and each, each spraying gets lighter and lighter.
00:54:25So in fact, that becomes the background.
00:54:28So, um, and then I pull, and once I've got like five or six layers, I pull everything off
00:54:34at once, all the plant materials off at once, and then like stand back and live with it for
00:54:40a while and figure out, you know, what, what it's wanting me to say.
00:54:45And then I go back in with charcoal and, um, you know, just kind of bring out the story.
00:54:52I mean, obviously when I lay each layer down, um, for the spraying part of it, it's very
00:54:59intentional.
00:55:00There is a compositional element to it, but, um, I never really know how it's going to turn
00:55:05out.
00:55:06So that's where that's the exciting part of it.
00:55:09Um, sometimes there's, you know, wonderful excitement and sometimes it's like, oh shit,
00:55:14that didn't work.
00:55:15So I'll just start again.
00:55:18I didn't know when to stop.
00:55:19Well, that's a problem.
00:55:21I think that's always a problem.
00:55:23I think for every artist, it's really, it's, I think when you come in in the morning and
00:55:29you look at it, you know, it's that all important point at, you know, before you, when you've had
00:55:35a break from it and you come back and look at it fresh and you think, yeah, there's nothing
00:55:40more I can do to it.
00:55:41You know, it's like that's, but it's a, it's a difficult point to reach.
00:55:47Um, quite often I just have to actually intentionally distort myself.
00:55:53Cause I feel like, you know, I can overwork things.
00:55:58Um, so these two are kind of, you know, meant to be sort of shown together.
00:56:02Nick made these beautiful frames.
00:56:04Nick and his team made these beautiful frames.
00:56:12The frames are not unimportant.
00:56:15No.
00:56:16Um, even if you have a look at the, you know, old masters, the frame, uh, plays a good role.
00:56:21Yeah.
00:56:22Yeah.
00:56:22Very important.
00:56:24Well, especially as these are sort of, you know, really kind of describe how the piece
00:56:30should be seen in that this is kind of like a window onto the, onto nature.
00:56:35Yeah.
00:56:35You know, like you're looking from the inside out kind of thing.
00:56:39This is the piece that I'm working on at the moment, which Nick has just, um, he's mocked
00:56:46up the frame for me so I can see it within the frame and I'm just kind of working on
00:56:50it, bringing again, bringing out the story.
00:56:55Um, and this is how you work, um, this with this.
00:57:01Yeah.
00:57:02So this is a, I don't know if it's on.
00:57:04Yeah, it is.
00:57:05Um, so yeah, so I'll, I'll work, you know, on this size pieces, I'll work, you know, between
00:57:11this big light box and, um, and then kind of, you know, layer and layer.
00:57:18But this, I mean, for instance, this, this particular piece, I made each of the leaves individually.
00:57:24So I, I'll spray around leaves and then I'll, um, I'll color them with ink.
00:57:31And then, um, and then I'll, uh, yeah, you can see they're all individually made.
00:57:41Ah, okay.
00:57:43Um, from the same vellum.
00:57:45And then I'll, I, um, you know, I, I start making the piece.
00:57:49And there's a lot of cutting out because I'll do the, again, I'll do the leaves and then
00:57:53I'll cut out the background behind it.
00:57:55So it's just a learning process.
00:57:58And it's, it's like each piece, I learn something different, you know, I discover something different.
00:58:03Cool.
00:58:04And with these, with these pieces, with these, um, leaves, there was a, an element of like
00:58:10mono printing as well, um, using gel.
00:58:13Um, so I'll print and I'll stamp a leaf into the gel and then I'll, I'll bring the, um,
00:58:20the vellum on top of that and roll it, pull it off.
00:58:24And then, you know, you'll get this kind of beautiful, um, pattern from the leaf.
00:58:32Yeah.
00:58:33I hope the camera can see.
00:58:35Yeah.
00:58:36A lot of people think that there's like a photographic element to it, but there's no photography at all.
00:58:40Yeah.
00:58:40It's all just, you know, drawn.
00:58:42But are these two, are these from, uh, real?
00:58:45Mm-hmm.
00:58:45They're from the photograph that I took, um, actually from, um, looking out onto the 10 freeway.
00:58:52Yeah.
00:58:53In Santa Monica.
00:58:54And strangely enough, I did this one first and I did this one in January of 25, fateful time.
00:59:04And I didn't really realize what I was doing, but this, you know, this could be viewed as smoke,
00:59:09you know, and it is quite monotone, obviously.
00:59:12And then, um, I revisited that image about six months later and it became this.
00:59:18So this is like regrowth after, it could be seen as that.
00:59:24I don't know if I was intentionally thinking that.
00:59:26It could have been, you know, subliminal.
00:59:28Um, but, but yeah, this is like, sorry, it's just like a verdant kind of, you know, um, revisiting of
00:59:35this.
00:59:36Cool.
00:59:37And you said at the beginning, uh, you have, um, you work for exhibitions.
00:59:41Uh, can you tell?
00:59:42Yeah.
00:59:43So I have a show, I have a group show coming up at, um, Skate Gallery on the 21st of
00:59:47March.
00:59:48Um.
00:59:49Is this where?
00:59:50In Los Angeles?
00:59:50That's in, um, is it Newport Beach?
00:59:54Corona del Mar.
00:59:55Yeah, Corona del Mar.
00:59:56Yeah.
00:59:56Yeah.
00:59:57Um, so that's in Newport Beach.
00:59:59And then I have another one at Mata Gallery on the 26th of April.
01:00:03And that's a, um, a solo show.
01:00:05So I'll be showing the light boxes in like a kind of a darkened room at the back.
01:00:12Um, and then, um, you know, the, the, the paintings in the, in the front room.
01:00:17Um, and then to darken the room, I actually made these.
01:00:21It has, um, cholesterol windows between the two rooms.
01:00:23So I made these pieces as an installation, um, above on the top there.
01:00:29So that it will darken the room.
01:00:30Um, and then there's also a sliding glass door and I made this piece for the sliding glass door.
01:00:36So that will also darken the room.
01:00:38This one.
01:00:39Yeah.
01:00:39Yeah.
01:00:40And the natural light will shine through.
01:00:44Nice.
01:00:44Yeah.
01:00:45Yeah.
01:00:46So unfortunately I won't be, uh, here.
01:00:49You won't be, okay.
01:00:49For the, for the exhibitions.
01:00:51But, uh, I hope we have, uh, yeah, sometimes in the future.
01:00:54Yeah.
01:00:55An exhibition.
01:00:55Yeah.
01:00:55Are you going back to Germany or what are you doing?
01:00:57Uh, yeah.
01:00:58Um, next week, Monday.
01:00:59I have to go back.
01:01:00Oh, you know, we forgot to mention that might be helpful for you based on like what, how you were
01:01:04talking about Ralph.
01:01:06Um, Maria was actually, um, with the European cultural center for the Venice Biennale.
01:01:10Oh, okay.
01:01:11So she did have an exhibition there.
01:01:12Okay.
01:01:13So if you wanted her to talk a little about that.
01:01:15Yeah.
01:01:15If you.
01:01:16Yeah.
01:01:18Sorry.
01:01:20Tell me about that.
01:01:21What it was.
01:01:26I put you on the spot.
01:01:28Okay.
01:01:28We don't need to talk.
01:01:29Yeah.
01:01:29No, it was just, it was a show.
01:01:32Thank you so much.
01:01:33I mean, uh, it was really nice is this, this tour of the space and, um, yeah.
01:01:39You're welcome.
01:01:39It was pretty, very interesting.
01:01:41It's a nice to meet you.
01:01:41Everything.
01:01:42It's, uh, it's a pleasure.
01:01:44Thank you so much.
01:01:45It's a lot happening.
01:01:46It's a lot happening.
01:01:46You're finding time for us too, because we know how busy you've been, you know,
01:01:50with all of your studio visits and museum visits and all.
01:01:53It's been a pleasure to have you here today.
01:01:55Yeah.
01:01:55Maybe if you come to Basel, let me know.
01:01:58So I show, show me, I show you, uh, our, uh.
01:02:01The real Basel.
01:02:03Yeah.
01:02:03The real Basel.
01:02:04Cool.
01:02:05The OG.
01:02:08Okay.
01:02:08Hey, thanks a lot.
01:02:10Thank you so much.
01:02:11Yeah.
01:02:12So this is part of my camera collection.
01:02:14Um, wow.
01:02:16Always being kind of fascinated between the, this, uh, nexus between guns and cameras shooting
01:02:24with ammunition versus shooting with film, taking photographs versus taking lives.
01:02:29But you really shoot, shot, shot like that, you know, um, I haven't, these are real.
01:02:34I mean, this is a, this is a, an American military world war two.
01:02:39Um, and this was military issue world war two film camera.
01:02:46This is a, you know, different model of the same one as is this one here.
01:02:52Um, that is a Vietnam era, um, Vietnam era, um, war correspondence camera.
01:03:01You know, these were all kind of production cameras.
01:03:04They, you know, they really, you know, you'd never have something like that now.
01:03:08But, uh, you know, I'm kind of fascinated.
01:03:13This is KGB.
01:03:15It was made in Kyiv in the sixties.
01:03:18It's, uh, called a sniper camera and it focuses like that.
01:03:22You can see it says Kyiv on the side and, uh, it was really, this was KGB.
01:03:34So it focuses by pulling this in.
01:03:36It's a little stiff and you pull the trigger and it takes a photo.
01:03:41Um, I've never seen that before.
01:03:46So, yeah, these are some of them.
01:03:48This was a, for doing aerial reconnaissance, but also kind of, you know, with the shape,
01:03:56there's a couple more.
01:03:57I've got some more of them somewhere.
01:03:59Um, here's another one.
01:04:05This one actually had a focus mechanism that you focused it here and you full.
01:04:11Oh, it's working on.
01:04:12Yeah.
01:04:13Cool.
01:04:14A lot of them are standard production.
01:04:16Some of them are kind of homemade.
01:04:18Uh, like for instance, this one appears to be homemade, but I really like it.
01:04:23You know, it's a super eight camera.
01:04:25It looks like somebody made it themselves.
01:04:30Kind of cute.
01:04:32That's really something about, you know, these mechanical stuff.
01:04:34Yeah.
01:04:35Um, you know, nowadays we have just these boxes or.
01:04:38Yeah.
01:04:38Yeah.
01:04:39But, but interestingly, the mechanical cameras were used even up until fairly recently,
01:04:44because if you were doing wildlife photography, you had no way to charge the batteries on
01:04:49an Aeroflex, an electric one.
01:04:51So, you know, these cameras were, you know, the, you know, up until maybe, you know, 10,
01:04:5615 years ago, maybe 20 years ago, they were still in use.
01:04:59Yeah.
01:05:00If you're in the bush for an extended amount of time, you know, you, you had, you, the batteries
01:05:07didn't last that long.
01:05:08And, uh, have you ever done, uh, wildlife photography?
01:05:13No, I mean, I, I would love to.
01:05:14It takes patience and I've done it.
01:05:16I don't have that kind of, it's a very specialized thing, you know, but yes, I mean, I, I, I
01:05:21definitely
01:05:22admire it.
01:05:23Yeah, me too.
01:05:24But, uh, as you said, um, like, I don't have the patience for that.
01:05:28No.
01:05:41So this is Jessica's studio.
01:05:44She works in glass.
01:05:46She's got a lot of, a lot of ideas and stuff up here.
01:05:50And I can open this up and show you outside.
01:05:53She just gets up in Maria's, um, oldest daughter.
01:05:57Uh-huh.
01:05:57So there are three years in the whole family area.
01:06:06Oh, you have a nice view of the bridge?
01:06:08Oh, yeah.
01:06:08We certainly do.
01:06:12What is that?
01:06:17Somebody's trash can.
01:06:20Come on up here.
01:06:21Yeah, I'll show you.
01:06:22There's a.
01:06:22If you head up this way right here.
01:06:24There's another rooftop right here with an incredible view.
01:06:43Wow.
01:06:45Nice and fresh.
01:06:46Yeah, isn't it?
01:06:47With all that wind that cleaned out the air a little bit, I guess.
01:06:58See, you got downtown Los Angeles over there.
01:07:00There's a beautiful view of it.
01:07:03Wow.
01:07:05You got the Sixth Street Bridge.
01:07:08At least some of it.
01:07:19Yeah, I love this area.
01:07:21It's industrial, but it's creative and, uh, yeah, you have a lot of creative, um, companies
01:07:27here.
01:07:27Yes.
01:07:28A lot.
01:07:29A lot of community building with that too.
01:07:31Yeah.
01:07:32Yeah.
01:07:32It's happening.
01:07:32We're going to have a block party here next month.
01:07:35It's a lot of fun.
01:07:36Yeah.
01:07:37Yeah, really nice.
01:07:48Yeah, I remember when Luna Luna was here.
01:07:51It was just across the road there.
01:07:53Yeah, yeah.
01:07:54That was fun.
01:07:55Yeah, that was really fun.
01:07:56Yeah.
01:07:57I like what they did with the film area where you could watch the film, right?
01:08:01Wasn't that fun?
01:08:02Yeah, yeah.
01:08:02Yeah.
01:08:03Where they had the beanbag chairs and kind of areas dressed up.
01:08:07Well, the first time I came here to Luna Luna, I thought, hey, what's, what's, what's going
01:08:11on here?
01:08:12You know, you don't expect that to have that much, uh, that many, yeah, companies that are
01:08:18here because it looks, uh, for European, I guess it's a little bit strange that you can't
01:08:24really see what's happening.
01:08:26Sometimes you have a sign.
01:08:27I think it's the nature of the area as well.
01:08:30There was a lot of, uh, backlash against what was considered to be gentrification, but these
01:08:36are empty factories.
01:08:37They're not, uh, it's not like you taking someone's living space, but you know, the local
01:08:44community.
01:08:44So there was a lot of kickback against that.
01:08:47Yeah.
01:08:47It felt like the area was being gentrified.
01:08:50And so, um, you know, a lot of people didn't, you know, they kept a very low profile.
01:08:56I think that's gone away a little bit now.
01:09:02So you can see there's a lot of graffiti that's all down these streets right here.
01:09:05Yeah.
01:09:06And that was all from, um, uh, a whole bunch of crews that were all together.
01:09:14It's called meeting of styles.
01:09:15That's an international competition that they do with different graffiti crews from the world.
01:09:20So, and that just happened about, well, that happened labor day.
01:09:23So September, in September, but there'll be some great, like really nice productions with
01:09:28different crews.
01:09:28They're all down this way right here.
01:09:32And, uh, are they, uh, this is-
01:09:36This is the Sixth Street Bridge.
01:09:37This is where they're putting together a park.
01:09:39Uh-huh.
01:09:39And so the park's gonna have like a soccer field.
01:09:42Yeah.
01:09:42It's gonna have an amphitheater, a gallery, dog park.
01:09:46It's, it's, and it's, and it's, and it's supposed to bring together the arts district
01:09:49and Boyle Heights together as a community.
01:09:52Yeah.
01:09:52And, and, you know, if you read about the Sixth Street Bridge and what the, the goal of
01:09:57it was, you know, it's really, it's kind of the gateway to bring you to downtown LA.
01:10:01Yeah.
01:10:02Yeah.
01:10:03When was built, the bridge?
01:10:05The bridge was just built.
01:10:06It was just, it just opened, uh, two years ago.
01:10:09Yeah.
01:10:10About two years ago.
01:10:11Yeah.
01:10:11Maybe two years ago.
01:10:12Two, three years ago.
01:10:13Yeah.
01:10:14And now the park is, is, is supposed to open, I think, uh, in the summertime.
01:10:20Yeah.
01:10:20So they've been working pretty hard on it.
01:10:21Yeah.
01:10:21It looks really nice.
01:10:22I just hope they look after it, you know.
01:10:24That's, that's a big question for us all.
01:10:29Nice.
01:10:33And the mountains there, that's, uh.
01:10:35The mountains, there was snow cap on those mountains last week from those rains.
01:10:39Yeah.
01:10:39I saw that, yeah.
01:10:40Oh, beautiful, right?
01:10:45That's Pasadena or, uh, yeah.
01:10:48Yeah.
01:10:52Wow.
01:10:53It's really great here.
01:10:58Wow.
01:10:58temperature.
01:11:01Yeah.
01:11:03Yeah.
01:11:03Go ahead.
01:11:09Okay.
01:11:23Really nice the way that Maria designed these windows, you know, it really gives you this
01:11:28incredible feel. There are not many cats around here. There are some wild cats, there's lots
01:11:50of wild cats in the area. Yeah, really? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, but dogs, everyone has dogs around
01:11:57here. Yeah, Americans are dog-mad. They treat them like children. Art goers as well, you
01:12:03know, I've never seen so many at the fairs or the galleries, you know, everywhere, everywhere.
01:12:08It's true. It is true. And you even see them pushing them in the prams and like the push
01:12:12chairs like babies. Yeah, yeah. And with their sweaters and all the different outfits. Yeah,
01:12:18you should come on Halloween and see the dogs in fancy dress. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. They
01:12:24dress them up. Okay. I should do a video on that. It's special. Yeah. It's very funny.
01:12:32Little alien dogs, little like, you know, zombie dogs, everything, you know. Yeah, I should
01:12:38do that because another idea is to compile a video with all the dogs I filmed at shows.
01:12:47You got to film the dogs who look like their owners and put them all together. Yeah. And
01:12:52a lot of them at the shows do look like their own dogs. They certainly do. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:12:57No, it's really funny. I like that. You know, out of all the things that would probably go viral
01:13:03like nothing else, you know. Yeah, yeah. You could do the Halloween edition and the Superbowl
01:13:09edition and the Christmas edition. Yeah, we will do that. I say, I always say, when I have time, I
01:13:20do that.
01:13:20But I really have to because I think that's really fun. Hey, thanks again. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for coming.
01:13:29It was really cool. Do you need a lift anywhere? No, as I said, I like to walk, you know.
01:13:34I like to walk, too. Yeah.
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