- 7 weeks ago
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00:04I'm not sure if I'm going to go in.
00:06Really?
00:07Yeah.
00:08It'll be fine.
00:09It'll be cold.
00:10You're drowning.
00:14Or maybe you try it for a bit.
00:15I'll go first.
00:18It's looking good.
00:20It's looking rough.
00:21Scary cat.
00:23I'm not sure.
00:24That's you.
00:49No prints.
00:53Nothing taken or disturbed?
00:56No.
00:59Unfortunately, the blood sample wasn't big enough for the lab to get a full DNA read.
01:05It's disappointing.
01:08Well, I really thought it was enough for a full sample.
01:12Apparently not.
01:14What about the glove mark?
01:15Not enough resolution for them to do anything with.
01:18You know, I took photos of the house right after the break-in.
01:23And nothing was touched?
01:25No.
01:27Or they put everything back in its place, which is what you would do if you were installing a listening
01:31device.
01:32I've applied for warrants to do exactly that.
01:34You're a copper?
01:34Serious Crime Squad.
01:36Covert Surveillance Unit.
01:37Counter-corruption.
01:38I'm innocent.
01:41Well, I mean, as you know, we've done a couple of sweeps.
01:49Nothing.
01:50No, me neither.
01:53So, there's not much more we can do.
01:57Okay.
02:08I'm innocent.
02:19No.
02:36Come on.
02:59You've worked in surveillance, haven't you, for years, so you're telling me you can't
03:03actually see if they've got a new computer or not?
03:06No.
03:08I've done what I can to check, but you just can't tell now.
03:12You see, there's this incognito spyware runs a keylogger in the background, which means
03:17they can record every key you press, every mouse click.
03:19They can see the emails you write, your messages, your passwords, et cetera, everything.
03:24But they build it so you don't know it's there.
03:26What did the police say?
03:29Well, an officer came out.
03:31He took a sample of the blood.
03:33There was some blood on the handle downstairs, and he thought he could see a disposable glove
03:38mark in it, which means that whoever did it wants to make sure they're untraceable.
03:42He did think they could find a DNA result.
03:44And then nothing, nothing happens.
03:47What do you think this is?
03:49Anything they can find to discredit us.
03:52Something that would look good on the cover of the Daily Mail, for example.
03:56I mean, I can't think of anything that, you know, I mean, I'm...
04:00Well, you know what it is.
04:01What's that?
04:03It's the free jazz.
04:05If that gets out, we're fucked.
04:06Oh, fuck off.
04:08But who would want to discredit us, though?
04:10I don't know.
04:11Could be a burglar who just got scared and legged it.
04:14Yeah, well, or he could have just seen...
04:17Jala's Hawaiian Cushions.
04:19Don't say that in front of Jala.
04:20I'm not going to do that, am I?
04:21I want to hang on to my balls.
04:24You know, the other day when this happened, the first thing I did...
04:29was pick up the phone to you.
04:31Yeah, no, I did see it, yeah.
04:33You probably saw it, I hung up, just to...
04:36Yeah, I just think that what we need now is we need...
04:41We need a whistleblower, don't we?
04:43And we need someone from inside the agency.
04:47And high up.
04:48From the top, you know.
04:51Eileen said that we must be making a difference.
04:53Did she?
04:54Yeah, she did.
04:55So, come on, let's...
04:57That's the point, isn't it?
04:58Yeah, we are.
04:58There's no point doing this unless we make a difference.
05:00No, let's keep going.
05:01Let's keep going and let's find...
05:03That fucking whistleblower.
05:04Right.
05:05June 2019.
05:07Sir James Bevan Environment Agency.
05:10Dear Sir James, I'm writing to your office as I'm sure you will know where to direct the question.
05:14October 2019.
05:16Dear Sir James, I wrote to you to raise concerns about a serious integrity issue involving the agency.
05:23Dear Sir James, 34 days have now passed since I sent you evidence.
05:27I've given up expecting a reply from you.
05:32Dear Ashley, I am in the receipt of your email to Sir James.
05:41Would you mind coming to our office?
05:43And would the 19th suit?
05:55Is Sir James not coming?
05:57I'm afraid not.
05:59No, Sir James wouldn't routinely attend meetings at this kind of level.
06:02I'd hoped he'd be here.
06:05He's time, Paul.
06:06He's aware of your work.
06:07Well, we're trying to find out what you're going to do about the illegal sewage overflow at Boughton.
06:14The combined storm overflow, yeah.
06:16The combined storm overflow at Burton has shown no detectable effects on the water quality.
06:21The water quality is stable and not deteriorating.
06:24I mean, our data shows very clearly that we have the best quality water since the Industrial Revolution.
06:31The water's turned brown.
06:33Yeah.
06:33It's turned so brown that when it joins the Thames at Newbridge, it makes the Thames look like a Swiss
06:38mountain stream.
06:40The water is brown in places, but that's a natural phenomenon.
06:45It's caused by a geological fault.
06:47A geological fault?
06:48Yeah.
06:49Yeah.
06:49Sorry, a geological fault is millions of years old.
06:53We remember when the water was clear.
06:55No one remembers the good old days before the geological fault.
06:58In the last 12 months since we installed sensors, there's been no evidence of pollution.
07:03Well, that's because you've installed the monitors upstream from the sewage pipes.
07:06Now, is that incompetence or an attempt to cover up a scandal?
07:10No, no.
07:11The agency would never position a monitor to achieve a particular reading.
07:14We are working extremely hard to transform the environment.
07:16We've improved and protected something like, I think it's 15,000 kilometers of river.
07:21It's like, but you've had 92 complaints from the general public about sewage pollution.
07:28And that's just the wind rush.
07:29I've actually got the breakdown here.
07:32Yeah, yeah.
07:35In 36 of those cases, there was no offence.
07:40And in 39, there was insufficient evidence.
07:44And in 6, we were unable to identify the offender.
07:48Well, what do you mean you couldn't identify the offenders?
07:51Why can't you identify the offenders?
07:52There's seven sewage works along the wind rush.
07:55They're all run by Thames Water.
07:56I mean, you say you've got insufficient evidence, but we keep giving you the evidence.
08:00All we ever do is give you the evidence.
08:02And all we get back is it's under investigation.
08:04And then nothing, nothing, nothing ever happens.
08:08In exceptional circumstances, for example, after heavy rain, the sewage systems are allowed to overflow.
08:16No, no, no, no.
08:17You see, that's not the law.
08:18The law is that in all normal climatic conditions, including heavy rainfall, the water companies have to treat the sewage.
08:26They have to make it safe before they put it back into the river.
08:29The law is a grey area.
08:30No, no, it's not a grey area with respect.
08:33It's the law.
08:33Oh, sorry, can I, sorry, Thames is that their own data, it shows they stopped treating sewage at Northledge for
08:45more than three months.
08:46Now, they told us that their senses had broken down, but we think they're lying.
08:54They're lying.
08:55So why would they do that?
08:58Why would they lie to you?
09:04Why would they lie to you?
09:18We're pretendking regulators.
09:22Sorry?
09:25The regulation isn't real.
09:27The government wants us to look like a regulator, but they won't let us do our job.
09:31Okay.
09:34when Cameron and Trust gutted the agency
09:36we went from regulating the industry
09:38to doing its bidding
09:41do you think we could take your number
09:43we'll just keep going
09:47this is going to be the first government
09:49in modern history
09:50that at the end of its parliamentary term
09:53has less regulation in place
09:54than there was at the beginning
09:56we've now identified those 3,000 regulations
09:59that we're going to scrap
10:00let's reduce the amount
10:01and the burden of regulation
10:03strangled by red tape
10:04cut back the health and safety monster
10:06cut guidance by 80%
10:08and we reduce farm inspections
10:09by 34,000 every year
10:12regulations will
10:13none of my ministers could introduce a regulation
10:15unless they abolished one at the same time
10:17massively reduce the number of rules
10:19laws and regulations
10:21that frankly treat all of you like idiots
10:27so really it's about stripping out
10:30as much unnecessary regulation as possible
10:33and taking responsibility for climate change
10:36and saying what more can we do
10:39to get us to net zero
10:41as you know this is a passion project
10:43for Sir James
10:44who feels that we can bring our car usage down
10:48by 70%
10:50yeah
10:53so from next month
10:55we're going to be taking
10:56the bold decision
10:58to cut back decisively
11:00on our car leases
11:05sorry
11:06just like to clarify
11:08what you're going to get rid of our cars
11:11so it's about reducing
11:14the agency's carbon footprint
11:15just getting that
11:17yeah
11:18go ahead Hannah
11:19the cars that we drive to the inspections in
11:23right
11:23yeah
11:24so self-monitoring
11:26and a more desk-based regulation
11:28is really
11:29it's really helping us move the needle
11:31on climate change
11:35but
11:36the remaining inspections
11:39yeah
11:40how do we get to those
11:41without a car
11:43yeah
11:45it's a great question
11:46it's a really great question
11:47and we'll take that forward
11:49to the next discussion meeting
11:51thanks Hannah
11:53yeah lovely
11:53thanks everyone
11:54not easy news to break
11:55is it
11:56it's
11:56it's
11:56Ebi's got something to say
11:58I know
11:58I know
11:59my car
11:59everyone's driving cars
12:00we're the environment agency
12:02absolutely
12:02what's wrong with the train
12:03I'll keep mine I think
12:04so yeah
12:05hmm
12:06coffee
12:06how do I get a coffee
12:09does anybody know
12:09what we're looking at
12:12anybody
12:14okay
12:14could you tell me
12:15what the reactants are
12:17so if you move your head
12:19even slightly
12:19the vertigo gets more intense
12:21yeah
12:21and the attacks happening
12:23maybe twice a week
12:24about that
12:25yeah
12:29the good news
12:30is that you don't have cancer
12:32we actually think it's Meniere's
12:34it's a disease of the inner ear
12:36the main symptom is
12:37acute vertigo episodes
12:40vomiting
12:41tinnitus
12:43it's a pretty neat fit
12:44with your presentation
12:48they were dumping sewage
12:51in the water
12:52the last time
12:53before I got sick
12:54right
12:55you know that from
12:56the surface against sewage app
12:58okay
13:01might that be
13:02the causes are unclear
13:03it's post viral
13:05this often starts with an ear infection
13:07you know
13:07they're common
13:08in surfers
13:08every surfer I know
13:12this is a
13:14chronic condition
13:16I'm afraid
13:17there's no cure
13:39should we move the table
13:40just hold his back
14:08so by ending on-site inspections
14:11into categories 3 and 4
14:13no or low impact
14:15pollution events
14:16and doubling down
14:17on the more serious
14:19category 1 and 2
14:21incidents
14:22we think we can
14:23turn ourselves
14:24into a more effective
14:25fighting unit
14:26yeah
14:27so from today
14:28we are ending
14:29on-site inspections
14:30for cats 3 and 4
14:31any questions
14:34well yeah
14:35um
14:37a category 3 incident
14:39can be
14:402km of sewage
14:43we want you to not
14:44inspect
14:45to not spend time
14:46on these incidents
14:49except
14:50that
14:50since the water companies
14:52have been
14:53self-reporting
14:54they almost always
14:56only report
14:57categories
14:573s and 4s
14:59so they're not actually
14:59reporting serious incidents
15:01and so if the water companies
15:02are only reporting
15:043s and 4s
15:05and we're
15:06no longer allowed
15:07to investigate
15:08so what exactly
15:09are we going to be
15:10doing
15:11I've told the government
15:12you get the regulation
15:14you pay for
15:14we no longer have the money
15:15to go on inspecting
15:17low-grade pollution events
15:19we need you to shut down
15:21these reports
15:21as unsubstantiated
15:22or to silently pass them
15:25and to not report them
15:26as pollution incidents
15:27is that clear?
15:33thank you
15:34thanks everyone
15:35you're on with your day
15:36yeah
15:47we had to fuck
15:48fucking wankers
15:50how are you going to get
15:50to fucking work?
15:52fuck nice
15:55horseback
16:03what time did he call you?
16:05I passed ten last night
16:08he said you couldn't miss it
16:20oh my god
16:21look at her
16:27get some shots
16:28and we'll call the agency
16:29on the way back
16:51get some shots
17:00I don't know.
17:44I don't know.
17:51Oh, are you driving into work tomorrow?
17:55Oh yeah, obviously. How else would I get in?
17:57Well, can I borrow your car at lunchtime?
18:00What for?
18:02Someone keeps calling up and complaining about the same incident.
18:06It's near the bridge at Hawkrise, so I'm going to go and take a look.
18:11Okay.
18:12A bit of freelance investigation.
18:14A bit of freelance.
18:14And also, he needs to be off the books.
18:17And I need you to promise me not to tell Sophie.
18:21I can't tell Sophie.
18:22You can't tell Sophie?
18:23I've seen all the world. I can't tell Sophie anything.
18:53Hi.
18:54Hi.
18:55Hi. Is that Justine?
18:58Hi, Justine.
18:59It's Hannah from the Environment Agency.
19:04Listen, it's about the pollution event at Hawkrise.
19:09It came through the system at a duration of 1.34 hours, and I'm here now, and it's still going.
19:18Yeah, yeah, I'm here now, yeah.
19:22The CSO's still discharging untreated sewage.
19:26I mean, there's a section of the river that is covered over with dried sewage.
19:31I mean, there's dead fish.
19:32You can see them from the footpath.
19:34I mean, you're going to get more complaints.
19:36You need to sort this.
19:42Can you prepare and cook a simple meal unaided?
19:47Yeah, but not when I'm having an attack.
19:51Then I can't do anything.
19:52I can't move.
19:54Can you eat and drink unaided?
19:57Yeah, but again, not when I'm having an attack.
20:01I've been getting the attacks every few days for the past six months.
20:05But if you're not having one of your attacks, can you eat and drink unaided?
20:09Yeah, but...
20:10Yes or no is fine.
20:12Yes.
20:15Can you dress and undress unaided?
20:20It's the same answer.
20:22Moving on to the mobility section of this assessment.
20:25Can you plan and follow a journey unaided?
20:31Yeah, but not when I'm having an attack.
20:33Standard move for 200 metres.
20:37Not when I'm having an attack.
20:39Well, you know, can you move around, walk for 200 metres?
20:42Of course I can, but not when I'm having an attack.
20:44Okay.
20:45Thank you, Mr Santa.
20:46Your total score for the daily living part of the assessment is zero points.
20:51Your total score for the mobility section is zero points.
20:55When you're not having an attack, you're able to do all the tasks I asked you about.
20:58That's the thing with my condition is that sometimes I can do these things and other times I can't.
21:04And when I can't, I can't, I can't do anything.
21:07I can't award you a personal independence payment.
21:08I don't know what to do.
21:09If you need further guidance about how to appeal, you can use the web chat to get some help.
21:15If you cannot access the web chat, you can contact the benefits appeal helpline on 0300...
21:31Hannah, sorry to scare you.
21:35Do you have a second?
21:36Can I have a word?
21:36Of course.
21:37Yeah?
21:38Okay.
21:38So I've just, I just got off the phone to Justine Wright Phillips at the water company.
21:42Yeah.
21:43Yeah, she said, she said you called her.
21:45Yeah, I, yeah, I did.
21:48Okay, she said you called her from the site.
21:51Well, I saw that it had been logged on the system for the fifth time and people kept calling up
21:55complaining
21:56and nobody was doing anything about it, so I...
21:58But we don't have the revenue to be investigating Category 3.
22:03It's not a Category 3, Sophie.
22:06The river is dried over with excrement.
22:08You can see it from...
22:09Yeah, so that's what I wanted to talk to you about.
22:11So Justine says that the dispersal rate in that area is really high.
22:16Is it?
22:17Yeah, she says there's like a strong current and a high dispersal rate.
22:19The overflow pipe has been discharging for over 36 hours and it is still going.
22:24All right, that's untreated.
22:25That is the water company's responsibility to report to us.
22:29You know this.
22:32Okay?
22:32And Justine says that actually really, because of the high dispersal rate,
22:37that it should come down to a Category 4.
22:41Be a Category 4?
22:43Yes.
22:43Right.
22:44Mm-hmm.
22:46So no impact on the environment, no action needed?
22:50Yes.
22:52Mm-hmm.
22:56Oh, you want me to change it on the system?
22:58Would you?
22:58Could you?
22:59Yeah.
23:00Okay.
23:01Thanks so much.
23:02That's great.
23:04Lovely.
23:12So, you see how well we're doing?
23:14Yeah, of course.
23:15Are you joking?
23:16I'm not joking.
23:17You know SROIC?
23:19No, what's that?
23:21Strategic Review of Incident Charges.
23:23Yeah, it's like what we charge the clients for permits and that.
23:26So we don't have clients, Cheryl.
23:28We're an environment agency.
23:29Hey, yes, sorry, yes, we don't have clients, but Sir James has put the prices up, yeah?
23:35And I'm talking like up, up, big time.
23:39Well, he's charging the water companies more.
23:41Yep.
23:43Well, surely they've gone down to the government, like, lobbying them, going,
23:45my, J-A-ing, the charges are taken down.
23:48No.
23:48Not a peep.
23:49Not a peep.
23:51They're just paying it.
23:53We've basically had such a high revenue spike, yeah, that we are on our way to becoming
24:01a client-funded regulator.
24:04Sorry, hold on one minute.
24:05This is going a bit...
24:06So you're saying that the water companies are funding the environment agency.
24:13That's what you're...
24:14Lee, you see the issues there.
24:16You can't be serious.
24:17A client-funded regulator.
24:22Amazing, isn't it?
24:22How can that even be a thing?
24:25It's a thing.
24:26Well, hold on, because literally, the other day, Sir James said that you get the regulation
24:31that you pay for.
24:32Yeah.
24:32That we haven't got the money to do the investigations that we used to do.
24:37Nobody's paying for them.
24:38Okay.
24:38That's your area, isn't it?
24:40I mean, all I know is that we have got more cash than we've ever had before.
24:47Just making conversation.
24:51I've got the job.
24:53Postman?
24:54Mm-hmm.
24:54No?
24:55Yeah.
24:55Did you?
24:55Yeah.
24:56Oh, good job.
24:57Yeah, really good timing.
25:00Uh-huh.
25:01Because I did two pregnancy tests this morning.
25:06What?
25:06And, yeah, I'm pregnant.
25:08What?
25:09Yeah, pregnant.
25:10No?
25:11Yeah.
25:12Yeah.
25:13I sort of just had a funny feeling and then, yeah, did one test, two lines, and then I did
25:19another test and it said two lines as well, and I was like, fuck.
25:33I'm Susan Davey.
25:35I am the CEO of Southwest Water.
25:37Basically, the wet weather events put a strain on our Victorian networks.
25:44It's a Victorian sewage system.
26:07It would be so high that it'd be impossible to actually fix it all.
26:11Bollocks.
26:12Should I tell you what stopped it?
26:15When privatization came in, they just stopped spending.
26:17After the war, they kept upgrading.
26:19Then after privatization came in, they just stopped.
26:24Not just Thames, all of them.
26:27Six percent new plants is privatization.
26:29Six percent?
26:30Six percent.
26:31Is that all?
26:31You know, it'd be good if we could maybe come and visit one of the works.
26:35I don't know about that.
26:36Well, I'd have to see, lads, honestly, because even just doing this, I feel a bit nervous.
26:42Fucking London Stadium.
26:43That's not a proper stadium.
26:45Fucking massive.
26:46Upton Park.
26:46Now, that was a proper stadium, mate.
26:48None of us say, it's too big.
26:49You need fucking binoculars, do you know what I mean?
26:51Yeah.
26:52Sorry, Pete, did you want to see an EDM?
26:54Oh, yes, yes, that's right.
26:55Well remembered.
26:56So this is an event duration monitor.
26:59Now, we fitted one of these on every sewage pipe in England.
27:03In 2012, the coalition government, they ordered all the water companies to record how much time they spend dumping raw
27:11sewage.
27:12These little units, they measure how much poo goes into the river by hours.
27:16Management have been dragging their feet for eight years now, but we're finally getting most of it in now.
27:22And the agency, they've published the numbers?
27:25They have to, by law.
27:26They're not going to like it, but tough shit.
27:30EDMs.
27:31Yes.
27:34So, we are finalizing plans for the statutory publication of the EDM numbers.
27:44As you know, there have been some technical delays, but it looks like they're almost ready.
27:52And they're going to come as a bit of a shock.
27:55Well, the data is going to show that the water companies discharged raw sewage 400,000 times in 2020.
28:06That's 1,100 times a day for a total of 3.1 million hours.
28:17It's a bit of a shocker.
28:18Can I just say that since operator self-monitoring, we've had to rely on the water companies to report back
28:26to us.
28:27I think that the key here is that this doesn't get framed as a failure of regulation.
28:32That would be quite wrong.
28:35And I think managing comms on this is going to be key.
28:38And we are working actively with the water companies to bear down on the problem.
28:46But that's 1,100 criminal offences a day.
28:51Well, that's actually, that's debatable because that depends on the terms of the permit and the circumstances around each spill.
28:57Yeah.
28:58And we know the legislation permits discharging after heavy rainfall.
29:02No, it doesn't.
29:04Sorry, Hannah.
29:04The law doesn't say that you can just dump sewage after heavy rain.
29:09It says that in all normal, climatic and seasonal circumstances, the water companies have to treat the sewage, not just
29:16dump it.
29:17But it's not the agency's job to adjudicate legal matters.
29:20I mean, this is actually a matter for the courts.
29:23No, no, no.
29:24This is our job.
29:25It's our job to enforce the law.
29:28Yeah.
29:29That's what we're here to do.
29:33What?
29:35Can you, um, you...
29:37Did you want to...
29:37No, no, you finish off here, Sophie.
29:43So we've identified the problem and now we work on the problem.
29:45Yeah.
29:46Which is reframing and owning the narrative.
29:48Yeah, we don't want this to get misconstrued as some sort of failure on our part because it just isn't.
29:52Thanks, that's really nice.
29:53Yeah, thanks so much.
29:54Thanks.
29:56Cool.
29:57Lovely.
29:57Thanks, guys.
29:58Thanks so much.
29:59By the way, um...
30:03So, I've heard you're going to give evidence in Parliament.
30:05Yes.
30:06Yes.
30:06Amazing.
30:07Yeah, I think you're bad.
30:09What does that mean, thinking about it?
30:11He's, uh, he's nervous.
30:13No, no, I'm not nervous.
30:14He's nervous.
30:15No, it's not that I'm nervous.
30:16I want to do it.
30:17It's just...
30:19It's difficult.
30:19Please.
30:19Don't worry about it.
30:20I'll do...
30:21Yeah.
30:21We're counting on you.
30:22We are really counting on you.
30:23And you can explain it in a scientific way.
30:25You're going to come across brilliantly.
30:26They're going to believe you, mate.
30:28Well, it...
30:30It's not really as simple as that.
30:31I mean, no.
30:32The boys from Ogden called me earlier, right?
30:34They told me that they dumped two billion litres of sewage in the Thames over two days.
30:40Environment Agency haven't got a Scooby.
30:42Did they send you the data?
30:43I've got the data, yeah.
30:44Can you send that to us?
30:45I will send it to you.
30:46We're not going to let you down.
30:48Makes sense.
30:48Please, you can do this.
30:50Come on, Pete.
30:51I know.
30:52You're a legend, mate.
30:53Come on.
31:03We now have the lowest number of serious pollution incidents from water companies that we have
31:09yet recorded.
31:11More water companies are now at the highest level of performance, what we call four-star
31:18performance.
31:19We now have the lowest number of serious pollution incidents from water companies that we have
31:25yet recorded.
31:54I'm an environment officer.
32:00When I first joined, it wasn't a job to get rich on.
32:07You know, I could see I was making a difference.
32:11You know, corporations want to make money.
32:14We make sure that they don't poison the rivers doing it.
32:17We could investigate, prosecute, whatever it took.
32:22But then they told the companies that they could regulate themselves.
32:27That's operates a self-monitoring.
32:29That's a self-monitoring.
32:31Then came the Cameron cuts, then the trust cuts.
32:35They laid off investigators, slashed prosecutions.
32:39I mean, they even took our cars off of us so we couldn't visit pollution sites.
32:42So all these cuts meant you couldn't do your job properly?
32:45That's not it.
32:49In 2021, Sir James hiked the prices the water companies paid for their permits.
32:54It was called charge-funded regulation.
32:58We get $96 million from the government.
33:01We are now pulling in $411 million from charges.
33:07All these cuts, they're just a smoke screen.
33:10We're swimming in cash.
33:13I am doing this because I know that it is wrong.
33:16And it has ruined my whole working life.
33:23Good luck.
33:37Right.
33:40Fucking hell.
33:42What should we do?
33:44Well, first we read them.
33:46And then I think we should call some journalists.
33:50The Environment Agency has refused to comment on whether agency directors currently hold shares in UK water companies.
33:58The agency claimed it would break data protection laws if it disclosed the information.
34:03Environment Agency chiefs secretly held a series of private dinners with water company bosses at the Royal Automobile Club in
34:11central London.
34:11Documents released under the Freedom of Information Act showed the meetings were held to discuss how to quell public anger
34:18over sewage space.
34:19As the sewage scandal deepens, Environment Agency CEO Sir James Bevan has been called to give evidence to a parliamentary
34:26committee.
34:27Well, we need to talk about what we say in public and the responsibilities we have.
34:33You have a duty not to openly criticise or discredit the organisation in the media or on social media, or
34:44to disclose confidential information to anyone not authorised to receive it.
34:51But if your comments, inside or outside work, impact on the agency's reputation by making derogatory comments about the organisation,
34:59or your managers, or you make comments that bring the organisation into disrepute, you may be subject to disciplinary action.
35:08And in more serious cases, dismissal.
35:24The
35:25Over the last 10
35:28I don't think I want to do this.
35:30You'll be fine.
35:32Need the toilet?
35:34I'm alright.
35:35I need a bloody toilet.
35:37Do you want a pie?
35:38What does that mean?
35:42Well, um,
35:44my garden is
35:46a, uh, an island
35:47which the Windrush wraps around.
35:52I've watched it closely for 18 years
35:55and I watched the water turn brown.
35:58I led a team of scientists
36:00using a machine learning analysis
36:03of two sewage treatment works run by Tentwater.
36:07One of those works, the Environment Agency said
36:11over 10 years, only two pollution incidents
36:15had been reported.
36:16Our machine learning analysis
36:21showed hundreds of illegal spills.
36:26More than 300 lasted 24 hours
36:29and some longer than 10 days
36:34and some for a month.
36:37Have you shown this evidence to the Environment Agency?
36:40Well, yeah, I've shown the evidence many times.
36:43What usually happens is that they
36:47they say that they show a sign of interest
36:50but then nothing happens.
36:54We work very closely with Professor Hammond
36:58of Windrush Against Sewage Pollution.
37:01We have a regular and very fruitful dialogue with him.
37:06You've worked closely with Professor Hammond.
37:09He and Ashley Smith sent you at least 13 emails
37:14detailing evidence of illegal sewage dumping.
37:17He published five evidence reports
37:20documenting water company criminality,
37:23all of which were sent to you or your senior colleagues.
37:26They invited you to come and look at the river in 2019
37:31and the following year sent you an email with the heading
37:35Environment Agency Complicit in Law Breaking.
37:45They never heard back.
37:46You never once replied in five years.
37:51How did you manage to work so closely with Professor Hammond
37:54when you never once spoke to him?
37:56At the Thames Water Modern Treatment Works
37:59there was a spill
38:01of 240 Olympic swimming pools of sewage
38:06in a single day.
38:08The existing monitoring failed to pick that up.
38:11Now why was that?
38:13There will always be times when something happens,
38:17usually accidentally.
38:19But if we find that a water company
38:22has breached its permit,
38:24we will take appropriate action.
38:26Does appropriate action include
38:28prosecuting water company executives?
38:30Prosecution is a very high bar,
38:32but where we think that's appropriate,
38:36we wouldn't hesitate.
38:38Did you prosecute in this case?
38:40No.
38:42Have you ever prosecuted
38:43any water company executives?
38:45No, but if we thought the evidence warranted it,
38:50we wouldn't hesitate.
38:53Last year you told this committee
38:54that you became aware of sewage dumping
38:56in May 2021.
38:58Yes.
38:59But three weeks after that,
39:01you told the committee that
39:02the water companies were improving
39:03and that more of them were getting
39:06four out of four stars.
39:08Why were you telling the committee
39:10that the water companies
39:11were doing a four-star job?
39:15Well, you've quoted everything I said.
39:20I think I stand by everything I said.
39:23I think you'll find them mutually consistent.
39:28The agency's job is to make sure
39:31the water companies obey the criminal law,
39:34but it doesn't do it,
39:35and the water companies do whatever they want.
39:37The alleged crimes of their directors
39:41are never prosecuted.
39:44They've built criminality
39:45into their business models
39:47because pollution is highly profitable
39:49and repeat offending has no consequences.
39:53Therefore, in the light of the remarkable absence
39:56of any counter-corruption measures,
39:58we demand an investigation
40:00into the environment agency.
40:05The key test for me on regulation...
40:07Less regulation.
40:08Is it something that enables the builders,
40:10not the blockers?
40:11Cut guidance by 80%.
40:13We've also got to look at regulation.
40:15Regulations will go...
40:17And where it is needlessly
40:18holding back the investment.
40:19Reduce the amount and the burden
40:21of regulation rip up the bureaucracy
40:23that blocks investment.
40:25Northumbria and Mortar recorded
40:2630.1 spills per overflow
40:28over the course of 2023.
40:30280,000 hours and change in total.
40:35The chief executive, Heidi Mottram,
40:38received a bonus of £234,000 that year.
40:43Why did you take for all tickets
40:45from the parent company?
40:48Well, I didn't.
40:49Okay.
40:50CK Hutchins Holdings
40:51owns 75% of Chung Kong Infrastructure Holdings,
40:54the owner of Northumbria and Mortar.
40:56And you declared £2,000
40:57in football tickets and hospitality.
41:00On that occasion,
41:01there was nobody from a water company
41:03that was involved in offering those tickets.
41:06There was nobody from a water company
41:07at that event.
41:08I wouldn't have known that.
41:09They weren't present.
41:11You said that these sort of people
41:13should potentially be in the dock
41:14if they have been found to break the rules.
41:17You took £2,000 in tickets and hospitality
41:20for a football match from bosses linked
41:22to that company that polluted that water.
41:25Why should people in Northumbria
41:26think that you're fit for your dock?
41:28You certainly wouldn't have known that
41:29and judge me by what I do.
41:30Why not?
41:30Judge me by what I do.
41:31No, no, that is what you did.
41:45Environment Minister Steve Reid
41:46is pursuing legal action
41:48against a group of anglers
41:49trying to restore the ecosystem
41:51of their local river
41:52on the grounds that
41:54cleaning up individual rivers
41:56is administratively unworkable.
41:59Concerns have been raised
42:00about the number of leading labour figures
42:02with links to lobbying firms
42:03working for water companies.
42:05Among the invited guests
42:06at the government's
42:07International Investment Summit
42:09was Macquarie Bank.
42:10Described as the vampire kangaroo
42:13by critics,
42:14Macquarie presided over the near collapse
42:16of Thames water,
42:17leaving it £10 billion in debt
42:19after having illegally dumped
42:21billions of litres of raw sewage.
42:39Reuben?
42:48I know I can't be left alone with her.
42:54Privatised water is a better deal
42:56than nationalised water.
42:59That the water privatisation,
43:01I believe,
43:02will go very successfully indeed.
43:04That will go very successfully indeed.
43:07And perhaps there will be
43:08a better way to see
43:09so that we can participate
43:11in the light of the fact.
43:12How did it come to this?
43:16How did it happen that
43:20that England is the only place
43:22in the whole world
43:24whose water system
43:25is wholly privatised?
43:29That our seas and our rivers
43:32are full of shite?
43:35I just feel like we're trying
43:37to bring down
43:38England's biggest organised crime
43:42syndicate.
43:44I mean, they're not the mafia,
43:46these water companies.
43:47They're not a drugs cartel,
43:48but they do dump sewage
43:51a thousand times a day.
43:53And almost all of those
43:55are illegal.
43:56And the cash they've accumulated,
44:01£145 billion since privatisation.
44:04And they've got that
44:05because they seem to have built
44:07criminality into their business models.
44:11So they are like
44:13an organised crime syndicate.
44:16And the CEOs and the owners
44:18are like crime bosses.
44:21I mean, they don't murder people,
44:23obviously.
44:24They're not assassins.
44:28But me and Peter
44:29are sitting here
44:30waiting
44:30for these crime lords
44:33to put things right.
44:35And
44:37if we leave them
44:38to their own devices,
44:40they never will.
44:43They never will.
44:45We've put the things
44:47that we own
44:48and care about
44:50together,
44:51we've put them
44:52into the hands
44:53of financial speculators
44:54whose job it is
44:55is just
44:56to make money.
44:58We need to put
44:59the people who care
45:01in charge.
45:02do
45:13and
45:19are
45:24to
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