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00:04I'm not sure if I'm going to go in.
00:06Really?
00:07Yeah.
00:08It'll be fine.
00:09It'll be cold.
00:10You're drowning.
00:14Or maybe you try it for a bit.
00:15I'll go first.
00:18It's looking good.
00:20It's looking rough.
00:21Scary cat.
00:23I'm not sure.
00:24That's you.
00:49No prints.
00:53Nothing taken or disturbed.
00:57No.
00:59Unfortunately, the blood sample wasn't big enough for the lab to get a full DNA read.
01:05It's disappointing.
01:08Well, I really thought there was enough for a full sample.
01:12Apparently not.
01:14What about the glove mark?
01:15Not enough resolution for them to do anything with.
01:18You know, I took photos of the house right after the break-in.
01:23And nothing was touched?
01:25No.
01:27Or they put everything back in its place, which is what you would do if you were installing a listening
01:31device.
01:32I've applied for warrants to do exactly that.
01:34You're a copper?
01:34Serious Crime Squad. Covert Surveillance Unit. Counter-corruption.
01:38I'm innocent.
01:41Well, I mean, as you know, we've done a couple of sweeps. Nothing.
01:50No, me neither.
01:52So, um, you know, there's not much more we can do.
01:57Okay.
01:57Okay.
02:02Okay.
02:22No, me neither.
02:28Oh, God.
02:59You've worked in surveillance, haven't you, for years, so you're telling me you can't
03:03actually see if they've got a new computer or not?
03:06No.
03:08I've done what I can to check, but you just can't tell now.
03:12You see, there's this incognito spyware runs a keylogger in the background, which means
03:17they can record every key you press, every mouse click, they can see the emails you write,
03:21your messages, your passwords, etc., everything.
03:24But they build it so you don't know it's there.
03:26What did the police say?
03:29Well, an officer came out, he took a sample of the blood, there was some blood on the handle
03:35downstairs and he thought he could see a disposable glove mark in it, which means that whoever
03:39did it wants to make sure they're untraceable.
03:42He did think they could find a DNA result, and then nothing, nothing happens.
03:47What do you think this is?
03:49Anything they can find to discredit us.
03:53Something that would look good on the cover of the Daily Mail, for example.
03:56I mean, I can't think of anything that, you know, I mean...
03:59Well, you know what it is.
04:01What's that?
04:03It's the Free Jazz.
04:05If that gets out, we're fucked.
04:06Oh, fuck off.
04:08But who would want to discredit us out?
04:10I don't know.
04:11Could be a burglar who just got scared and legged it.
04:14Yeah, well, or he could have just seen Jala's Hawaiian Cushions.
04:19Don't say that in front of Jala.
04:20I'm not going to do that, am I?
04:21I want to hang onto my balls.
04:24You know, the other day when this happened, the first thing I did was pick up the phone
04:31to you.
04:31Yeah, no, I did see it, yeah.
04:33You probably saw it.
04:34I hung up.
04:36Just to...
04:36Yeah, I just think that what we need now is we need a...
04:41We need a whistleblower, don't we?
04:43And we need someone from inside the agency.
04:47And high up.
04:48From the top, yeah.
04:51Eileen said that we must be making a difference.
04:53Did she?
04:54Yeah, she did.
04:55So, come on, let's...
04:57That's the point, isn't it?
04:58Yeah, we are.
04:58There's no point doing this unless we make a difference.
05:00No, let's keep going.
05:01Let's keep going and let's find that fucking whistleblower.
05:04Right.
05:04June 2019, Sir James Bevan Environment Agency.
05:10Dear Sir James, I'm writing to your office as I'm sure you will know where to direct the
05:14question.
05:15October 2019, dear Sir James, I wrote to you to raise concerns about a serious integrity
05:21issue involving the agency.
05:23Dear Sir James, 34 days have now passed since I sent you evidence.
05:27I've given up expecting a reply from you.
05:31Dear Ashley, I am in the receipt of your email to Sir James.
05:41Would you mind coming to our office?
05:43And would the 19th suit?
05:55Is Sir James not coming?
05:57I'm afraid not.
05:59No, Sir James wouldn't routinely attend meetings at this kind of level.
06:02I'd hoped he'd be here.
06:05He's time poor.
06:06Yeah.
06:06He's aware of your work.
06:07Well, we're trying to find out what you're going to do about the illegal sewage overflow
06:13at Borton.
06:14The combined storm overflow.
06:15Yeah.
06:16The combined storm overflow at Burton has shown no detectable effects on the water quality.
06:21The water quality is stable and not deteriorating.
06:23I mean, our data shows very clearly that we have the best quality water since the Industrial
06:28Revolution.
06:31The water's turned brown.
06:33Yeah.
06:33It's turned so brown that when it joins the Thames at Newbridge, it makes the Thames look
06:37like a Swiss mountain stream.
06:40The water is brown in places, but that's a natural phenomenon.
06:45It's caused by geological faults.
06:46A geological fault?
06:48Yeah.
06:49Yeah.
06:49Sorry, a geological fault is millions of years old.
06:53We remember when the water was clear.
06:56No one remembers the good old days before the geological faults.
06:58In the last 12 months since we installed sensors, there's been no evidence of pollution.
07:03Well, that's because you've installed the monitors upstream from the sewage pipes.
07:06Now, is that incompetence or an attempt to cover up a scandal?
07:10No, no.
07:11The agency would never position a monitor to achieve a particular reading.
07:14We are working extremely hard to transform the environment.
07:16We've improved and protected something like, I think it's 15,000 kilometers of river.
07:22But you've had 92 complaints from the general public about sewage pollution.
07:28And that's just the wind rush.
07:29I've actually got the breakdown here.
07:31Let's see.
07:33Yeah, yeah.
07:35In 36 of those cases, there was no offence.
07:40And in 39, there was insufficient evidence.
07:44And in six, we were unable to identify the offender.
07:49What do you mean you couldn't identify the offenders?
07:51Why can't you identify the offenders?
07:52There's seven sewage works along the wind rush.
07:55They're all run by Thames water.
07:56I mean, you say you've got insufficient evidence, but we keep giving you the evidence.
08:00All we ever do is give you the evidence.
08:02And all we get back is it's under investigation.
08:04And then nothing, nothing, nothing ever happens.
08:09In exceptional circumstances, for example, after heavy rain, the sewage systems are allowed
08:15to overflow.
08:15No.
08:16No.
08:16No, no, no.
08:17You see, that's not the law.
08:18The law is that in all normal climatic conditions, including heavy rainfall, the water companies
08:24have to treat the sewage.
08:26They have to make it safe before they put it back into the river.
08:29The law is a grey area?
08:30No.
08:31No, it's not a grey area with respect.
08:33It's the law.
08:34Sorry.
08:34Can I...
08:35Sorry.
08:37Thames is that their own data, it shows they stopped treating sewage at Northridge
08:44for more than three months.
08:46Now, they told us that their senses had broken down, but we think they're lying.
08:54They're lying.
08:55So why would they do that?
08:58Why would they lie to you?
09:12Don't wanna put the crate in?
09:18We're protecting regulators.
09:20years. Sorry? The regulation isn't real. The government want us to look like a regulator,
09:29but they won't let us do our job. Okay. When Cameron and Trust gutted the agency,
09:37we went from regulating the industry to doing its bidding. Do you think we could take your
09:42number? Just keep going. This is going to be the first government in modern history that at the
09:51end of its parliamentary term has less regulation in place than there was at the beginning. We've
09:57now identified those 3,000 regulations that we're going to scrap. Let's reduce the amount
10:01and the burden of regulation strangled by red tape. Cut back the health and safety monster. Cut guidance
10:07by 80% and we reduce farm inspections by 34,000 every year. Regulations will go. None of my
10:13ministers could introduce a regulation unless they abolished one at the same time. Massively
10:18reduce the number of rules, laws and regulations that frankly treat all of you like idiots.
10:27So really it's about stripping out as much unnecessary regulation as possible and taking responsibility
10:35for climate change and saying what more can we do to get us to net zero. As you know, this
10:42is a passion
10:43project for Sir James who feels that we can bring our car usage down by 70%. Yeah. It's yeah. So
10:54from next month,
10:55we're going to be taking the bold decision to cut back decisively on our car leases.
11:04Yeah. Sorry. Just like to clarify what you're going to get rid of our cars. So it's about reducing
11:14the agency's carbon footprint. Just getting that. Yeah. Go ahead, Hannah.
11:19The cars that we drive to the inspections in. Right. Yeah. So self-monitoring and a more desk-based
11:28regulation is really, it's really helping us move the needle on climate change.
11:35But the remaining inspections? Yeah. How do we get to those without a car? Yeah.
11:45It's a great question. It's a really great question. And we'll take that forward to the
11:50next discussion meeting. Thanks, Hannah. Yeah, lovely. Thanks, everyone. Not easy news to break,
11:55is it? Yeah, it's fine. It's fine. It's fine. Ebby's got something to say. I know. I know. I know.
11:59My car. Everyone's driving cars. We're the environment agency. Absolutely. What's wrong with the
12:03train? I'll keep mine, I think. So, yeah. Mmm, coffee. How do I get a coffee? Does anybody know
12:09what we're looking at? Anybody? Okay. Could you tell me what the reactants are? So, if you move
12:18your head even slightly, the vertigo gets more intense? Yeah. And the attack's happening maybe
12:23twice a week? About that, yeah. The good news is that you don't have cancer. We actually think it's
12:33Meniere's. It's a disease of the inner ear. The main symptom is acute vertigo episodes.
12:41Vomiting. Tinnitus. It's a pretty neat fit with your presentation.
12:48They were dumping sewage in the water the last time before I got sick. Right. You know that
12:56from... The Suffers Against Sewage app? Okay. Might that be... The causes are unclear. It's
13:04post-viral. This often starts with an ear infection. You know, they're common in surfers. Yeah.
13:09And every surfer I know. What? This is a chronic condition. I'm afraid there's no cure.
13:38So, she'll move the table away. Just hold us back. Just to see us here.
14:08So, by ending on-site inspections into categories 3 and 4,
14:13no or low-impact pollution events and doubling down on the more serious Category 1 and 2 incidents,
14:22we think we can turn ourselves into a more effective fighting unit.
14:26Yeah. So, from today, we are ending on-site inspections for Cats 3 and 4.
14:32Any questions?
14:34Well, yeah. A Category 3 incident can be two kilometres of sewage.
14:43We want you to not inspect, to not spend time on these incidents.
14:49Except that since the water companies have been self-reporting,
14:55they almost always only report Category 3s and 4s.
14:59So, they're not actually reporting the serious incidents.
15:01And so, if the water companies are only reporting 3s and 4s, and we're no longer allowed to investigate...
15:08So, what exactly are we going to be doing?
15:11I've told the government, you get the regulation you pay for.
15:14We no longer have the money to go on inspecting low-grade pollution events.
15:19We need you to shut down these reports as unsubstantiated, or to silently pass them,
15:25and to not report them as pollution incidents. Is that clear?
15:33Yeah. Thank you. Thanks, everyone.
15:35You're on with your day?
15:36Yeah.
15:36You're on with your day, sir.
15:40I'm just a bit.
15:47We had to fuck.
15:49Fucking wankers.
15:50How are you going to get to fucking work?
15:52Fuck nice.
15:55Horseback.
16:03What time did he call you?
16:04I passed 10 last night.
16:08Said you couldn't miss it.
16:20Oh my god, look at it.
16:27Get some shots and we'll call the agency on the way back.
16:37To be a child.
16:51I was in the beginning.
16:52Oh my god.
16:54I'm all not naturals.
16:55Oh my goodness.
16:56I'm sorry.
17:00I'm all not меня to voice.
17:03You're waiting for me to get to.
17:52Debbie, are you driving into work tomorrow?
17:55Oh yeah, obviously, how else would I get in?
17:57Well, can I borrow your car at lunchtime?
18:00What for?
18:02Someone keeps calling up and complaining about the same incident.
18:06It's near the bridge at Hawkrise, so I'm going to go and take a look.
18:11Okay.
18:12A bit of freelance investigation.
18:14A bit of freelance.
18:15And also, it needs to be off the books.
18:17And I need you to promise me not to tell Sophie.
18:21I can tell Sophie.
18:22You can tell Sophie?
18:23I've seen a lot of stuff in the thing.
18:53Hi.
18:54Hi.
18:55Is that Justine?
18:57Hi, Justine.
18:59It's Hannah from the Environment Agency.
19:04Listen, it's about the pollution event at Hawkrise.
19:09It came through the system at a duration of 1.34 hours, and I'm here now, and it's still going.
19:18Yeah, yeah, I'm here now, yeah.
19:22The CSO's still discharging untreated sewage.
19:26I mean, there's a section of the river that is covered over with dried sewage.
19:31I mean, there's dead fish.
19:32You can see them from the footpath.
19:34I mean, you're going to get more complaints.
19:36You need to sort this.
19:42Can you prepare and cook a simple meal unaided?
19:47Yeah, but not when I'm having an attack.
19:51Then I can't do anything.
19:52I can't move.
19:54Can you eat and drink unaided?
19:56Yeah, but, again, not when I'm having an attack.
20:01I've been getting the attacks every few days for the past six months.
20:05But if you're not having one of your attacks, can you eat and drink unaided?
20:09Yeah, but...
20:10Yes or no is fine.
20:12Yes.
20:15Can you dress and undress unaided?
20:20It's the same answer.
20:22Moving on to the mobility section of this assessment.
20:25Can you plan and follow a journey unaided?
20:31Yeah, but not when I'm having an attack.
20:33Standard move for 200 metres.
20:37Not when I'm having an attack.
20:39Well, you know, can you move around, walk for 200 metres?
20:42Of course I can, but not when I'm having an attack.
20:44Okay.
20:45Thank you, Mr Santa.
20:46Your total score for the daily living part of the assessment is zero points.
20:51Your total score for the mobility section is zero points.
20:55When you're not having an attack, you're able to do all the tasks I asked you about.
20:58That's the thing with my condition is that sometimes I can do these things and other times I can't.
21:04And when I can't, I can't, I can't do anything.
21:07I can't award you a personal independence payment.
21:08I don't know what to do.
21:09If you need further guidance about how to appeal, you can use the web chat to get some help.
21:15If you cannot access the web chat, you can contact the benefits appeal helpline on 0300...
21:22Oh, I can't see you, please.
21:31Hannah.
21:32Oh, shit.
21:32Sorry.
21:32Sorry, I didn't mean to scare you.
21:34Sorry.
21:35Do you have a second?
21:36Can I have a word?
21:36Of course.
21:37Yeah?
21:38Okay.
21:38So I've just, I just got off the phone to Justine Wright-Phillips at the water company.
21:42Yeah.
21:43Yeah, she said, she said you called her.
21:45Yeah, I, yeah, I did.
21:48Okay, she said you called her from the site.
21:51Well, I saw that it had been logged on the system for the fifth time and people kept calling up
21:55complaining and nobody was doing anything about it, so I...
21:58But we don't have the revenue to be investigating Category 3.
22:03It's not a Category 3, Sophie.
22:06The river is dried over with excrement.
22:09You can see it from...
22:09Yeah, so that's what I wanted to talk to you about.
22:11So Justine says that the dispersal rate in that area is really high.
22:16Is it?
22:17Yeah, she says, she says there's like a strong current and a high dispersal rate...
22:20The overflow pipe has been discharging for over 36 hours and it is still going.
22:25All right, that's, that is the water company's responsibility to report to us.
22:29You know this.
22:32Okay, and Justine says that actually really the, because of the high dispersal rate, that it should come down to
22:38a Category 4.
22:41Be a Category 4?
22:43Yes.
22:43Right.
22:43Mm-hmm.
22:45So, no impact on the environment, no action needed?
22:50Yes.
22:52Mm-hmm.
22:56Oh, you want me to change it on the system?
22:58Would you?
22:58Could you?
22:59Yeah?
23:00Okay, thanks so much.
23:02That's great.
23:03Lovely.
23:06Lovely.
23:12So, you see how well we're doing?
23:14Yeah, of course.
23:15Are you joking?
23:16I'm not joking.
23:17You know SROIC?
23:19No, what's that?
23:21Strategic Review of Incident Charges.
23:23Yeah, it's like what we charge the clients for permits and that.
23:26So, we don't have clients, Cheryl.
23:28We're an environment agency.
23:29Hey, yes, sorry, yes, we don't have clients, but Sir James has put the prices up, yeah?
23:35And I'm talking like up, up, big time.
23:39Well, he's charging the water companies more.
23:41Yep.
23:43Well, surely they've gone down to the government, like, lobbying them, going, my, J-A-ing, the charges are taken
23:47down.
23:48No.
23:48Not a peep.
23:49Not a peep.
23:51So, they're just paying it.
23:53We've basically had such a high revenue spike, yeah, that we are on our way to becoming a client-funded
24:03regulator.
24:04Sorry, hold on one minute.
24:05This is going a bit...
24:06So, you're saying that the water companies are funding the environment agency.
24:12That's what you're...
24:14You see the issues there.
24:16You can't be serious.
24:17A client-funded regulator.
24:22Amazing, isn't it?
24:22How can that even be a thing?
24:25It's a thing.
24:26Well, hold on, because literally, the other day, Sir James said that you get the regulation that you pay for.
24:32Yeah.
24:32That we haven't got the money to do the investigations that we used to do.
24:37Nobody's paying for them.
24:38Okay.
24:38That's your area, isn't it?
24:40I mean, all I know is that we have got more cash than we've ever had before.
24:47I'm just making conversation.
24:51I've got the job.
24:53Hostman?
24:54Mm-hmm.
24:54No?
24:55Yeah.
24:55Did you?
24:55Yeah.
24:56Oh, good time.
24:57Yeah, really good timing.
25:00Uh-huh.
25:01Because I did two pregnancy tests this morning.
25:06What?
25:06And, yeah, I'm pregnant.
25:08What?
25:09Yeah, pregnant.
25:10No.
25:11Yeah.
25:13I sort of just had a funny feeling, and then, yeah, did one test, two lines, and then I did
25:19another test, and it said two lines as well, and I was like, fuck.
25:33I'm Susan Davey.
25:35I am the CEO of Southwest Water.
25:37Basically, the wet weather events put a strain on our Victorian networks.
25:43And, unfortunately, we have a Victorian sewage system, which we have inherited, and that means things do go wrong.
25:51How do you say Victorian sewage network?
25:5312 percent.
25:5412?
25:5512 percent?
25:56What's 12 percent?
25:5812 percent of the sewage system is Victorian.
26:01What do they tell you?
26:02That the whole of the system was Victorian, so that meant that the investment would be so high that it'd
26:09be impossible to actually fix it all.
26:11Bollocks.
26:12Should I tell you what stopped it?
26:14When privatization came in, they just stopped spending.
26:17After the war, they kept upgrading.
26:19Then after privatization came in, they just stopped.
26:23Not just Thames, all of them.
26:27Six percent new plants is privatization.
26:29Six percent?
26:30Six percent.
26:31Is that all?
26:31You know, it'd be good if we could maybe come and visit one of the works.
26:35I don't know about that.
26:36Well, I'd have to see, but lads want to see, because even just doing this, I feel a bit nervous.
26:42Fucking London Stadium.
26:43That's not a proper stadium.
26:45Fucking massive.
26:46Upton Park.
26:46Now, that was a proper stadium, mate.
26:48London Stadium's too big.
26:49You're even fucking binoculars.
26:51Do you know what I mean?
26:51Yeah.
26:52Sorry, Pete.
26:52Did you want to see an EDM?
26:54Oh, yes.
26:54Yes, that's right.
26:55Well remembered.
26:56So, this is an event duration monitor.
27:00Now, we fitted one of these on every sewage pipe in England.
27:03In 2012, right, the coalition government, they ordered all the water companies to record
27:08how much time they spend dumping raw sewage.
27:12These little units, they measure how much poo goes into the river by hours.
27:16Management have been dragging their feet for eight years now, but we're finally getting
27:21most of it in now.
27:22And the agency, they've published the numbers.
27:25They have to by law.
27:26I mean, they're not going to like it, but tough shit.
27:30EDMs.
27:32Yes.
27:35So, we are finalizing plans for the statutory publication of the EDM numbers.
27:44As you know, there have been some technical delays, but it looks like they're almost ready.
27:50And they're going to come as a bit of a shock.
27:57The data's going to show that the water companies discharged raw sewage 400,000 times in 2020.
28:06That's 1,100 times a day for a total of 3.1 million hours.
28:17It's a bit of a shocker.
28:18Can I just say that since operator self-monitoring, we've had to rely on the water companies to report back
28:26to us.
28:27I think that the key here is that this doesn't get framed as a failure of regulation.
28:32That is, that is, that would be quite wrong.
28:35And I think managing comms on this is going to be key.
28:38And we are working actively with the water companies to bear down on the problem.
28:46Yeah.
28:46But that's 1,100 criminal offences a day.
28:50Well, that's actually, that's debatable, because that depends on the terms of the permit and the circumstances around each spill.
28:57Yeah.
28:58And we know the legislation permits discharging after heavy rainfall and so on.
29:02No, no, it doesn't.
29:04Sorry, Hannah.
29:05The law doesn't say that you can just dump sewage after heavy rain.
29:09It says that in all normal, climatic and seasonal circumstances, the water companies have to treat the sewage, not just
29:16dump it.
29:17But it's not the agency's job to adjudicate legal matters.
29:20I mean, this is actually a matter for the courts.
29:23No, no, no.
29:24This is, this is our job.
29:25It's our job to enforce the law.
29:28Yeah.
29:29That's what we're here to do.
29:35Can you, um, you...
29:37Did you want to...
29:37No, no, you, you finish off here, Sophie.
29:43So we've identified the problem and now we work on the problem.
29:45Yeah.
29:46Which is reframing and owning the narrative.
29:48Yeah, we, we, we don't want this to get misconstrued as some sort of failure on our part because it
29:52just isn't.
29:52Thanks.
29:52That's really nice.
29:53Yeah, thanks.
29:53Thanks so much.
29:54Thanks.
29:56Cool.
29:57Lovely.
29:57Thanks, guys.
29:58Thanks so much.
29:59By the way, um, so I've heard you're going to give evidence in Parliament.
30:05Yes.
30:06Yes.
30:06Amazing.
30:07Yeah, I think you're bad.
30:09What does that mean, thinking about it?
30:11He's, uh, he's nervous.
30:13No, I'm not nervous.
30:14He's nervous.
30:14No, it's not that I'm nervous.
30:16I want to do it.
30:17It's just, it's difficult.
30:19Please.
30:19Don't, don't worry about it.
30:20I'll do it.
30:21Yeah.
30:21We're counting on you.
30:22We are really counting on you.
30:23And you can explain it in this scientific way.
30:25You're going to come across brilliantly.
30:26They're going to believe you, mate.
30:28Well, it, it's, it's not really as simple as that.
30:31I mean, no.
30:32The boys from Ogden called me earlier, right?
30:34They told me that they dumped two billion litres of sewage in the Thames over two days.
30:40Environment agency haven't got a scooby.
30:42Did they send you the data?
30:43I've got the data, yeah.
30:44Can you send that to us?
30:45I will send it to you.
30:46We're not going to let you down.
30:48Make sure.
30:48Please, you can do this.
30:50Come on, Pete.
30:51That's all right, no.
30:52You're a legend, mate.
30:53Come on.
31:03We now have the lowest number of serious pollution incidents from water companies that
31:09we have yet recorded.
31:11More water companies are now at the highest level of performance, what we call four-star
31:18performance.
31:19We now have the lowest number of serious pollution incidents from water companies that
31:24we have yet recorded.
31:54I'm an environment officer at the agency.
31:56I investigate sewage pollution.
32:01When I first joined, it wasn't a job to get rich on.
32:07I could see I was making a difference.
32:12Corporations want to make money.
32:14We make sure that they don't poison the rivers doing it.
32:16That we could investigate, prosecute, whatever it took.
32:22But then they told the companies that they could regulate themselves.
32:27That's the operator self-monitoring.
32:29Exactly.
32:31Then came the Cameron cuts, then the trust cuts.
32:35They laid off investigators, slashed prosecutions.
32:39I mean, they even took our cars off of us so we couldn't visit pollution sites.
32:42So all these cuts meant you couldn't do your job properly?
32:46That's not it.
32:49In 2021, Sir James hiked the prices the water companies paid for their permits.
32:55It was called charge-funded regulation.
32:58We get $96 million from the government.
33:01We are now pulling in $411 million from charges.
33:06All these cuts, they're just a smokescreen.
33:10We're swimming in cash.
33:13I am doing this because I know that it is wrong.
33:16And it has ruined my whole working life.
33:23Good luck.
33:37Right.
33:41Fucking hell.
33:42What should we do?
33:43Well, first we read them.
33:46And then I think we should call some journalists.
33:50The Environment Agency has refused to comment on whether agency directors currently hold shares in UK water companies.
33:58The agency claimed it would break data protection laws if it disclosed the information.
34:04Environment Agency chiefs secretly held a series of private dinners with water company bosses at the Royal Automobile Club in
34:11central London.
34:11Documents released under the Freedom of Information Act showed the meetings were held to discuss how to quell public anger
34:18over sewage space.
34:19As the sewage scandal deepens, Environment Agency CEO Sir James Bevan has been called to give evidence to a parliamentary
34:26committee.
34:27Well, we need to talk about what we say in public and the responsibilities we have.
34:33You have a duty not to openly criticise or discredit the organisation in the media or on social media.
34:43Or to disclose confidential information to anyone not authorised to receive it.
34:51If your comments, inside or outside work, impact on the agency's reputation by making derogatory comments about the organisation, or
34:59your managers,
35:00or you make comments that bring the organisation into disrepute, you may be subject to disciplinary action.
35:08And in more serious cases, dismissal.
36:04One of those works, the Environment Agency said, over 10 years, only two pollution incidents have been reported.
36:16Our machine learning analysis showed hundreds of illegal spills.
36:26More than 300 lasted 24 hours, and some longer than 10 days, and some for a month.
36:37Have you shown this evidence to the Environment Agency?
36:40Well, yeah, I've shown the evidence many times.
36:43What usually happens is that they say that they show a sign of interest, but then nothing happens.
36:54We work very closely with Professor Hammond of Windrush against sewage pollution.
37:01We have a regular and very fruitful dialogue with him.
37:05You've worked closely with Professor Hammond, he and Ashley Smith sent you at least 13 emails detailing evidence of illegal
37:16sewage dumping.
37:17He published five evidence reports documenting water company criminality, all of which were sent to you or your senior colleagues.
37:26They invited you to come and look at the river in 2019, and the following year sent you an email
37:34with the heading,
37:35environment agency complicit in law-breaking, environment agency complicit in law-breaking.
37:44They never heard back.
37:46You never once replied in five years.
37:51How did you manage to work so closely with Professor Hammond when you never once spoke to him?
37:56At the Thames Water Modern Treatment Works, there was a spill of 240 Olympic swimming pools of sewage in a
38:07single day.
38:08The existing monitoring failed to pick that up.
38:11Now, why was that?
38:12There will always be times when something happens, usually accidentally, but if we find that a water company has breached
38:22its permit, we will take appropriate action.
38:26Does appropriate action include prosecuting water company executives?
38:30Prosecution is a very high bar, but where we think that's appropriate, we wouldn't hesitate.
38:38Did you prosecute in this case?
38:40No.
38:41Have you ever prosecuted any water company executives?
38:45No, but if we thought the evidence warranted it, we wouldn't hesitate.
38:53Last year, you told this committee that you became aware of sewage dumping in May 2021.
38:58Yes.
38:59But three weeks after that, you told the committee that the water companies were improving, and that more of them
39:05were getting four out of four stars.
39:09Why were you telling the committee that the water companies were doing a four-star job?
39:15Well, you've quoted everything I said.
39:19I think I stand by everything I said.
39:23I think you'll find them mutually consistent.
39:28The agency's job is to make sure the water companies obey the criminal law, but it doesn't do it, and
39:35the water companies do whatever they want.
39:37The alleged crimes of their directors are never prosecuted.
39:43They've built criminality into their business models because pollution is highly profitable and repeat offending has no consequences.
39:52Therefore, in the light of the remarkable absence of any counter-corruption measures, we demand an investigation into the environment
40:01agency.
40:05The key test for me on regulation.
40:07Less regulation.
40:08Is it something that enables the builders, not the blockers?
40:11Cut guidance by 80%.
40:13We've also got to look at regulation.
40:15Regulations will go.
40:17And where it is needlessly holding back the investment.
40:19Reduce the amount and the burden of regulation.
40:22Rip up the bureaucracy that blocks investment.
40:24Northumbria and Morton recorded 30.1 spills per overflow over the course of 2023.
40:30280,000 hours and change in total.
40:35The chief executive, Heidi Mottram, received a bonus of £234,000 that year.
40:43Why did you take for all tickets from the parent company?
40:48Well, I didn't.
40:49Okay.
40:50C.K. Hutchins Holdings owns 75% of Chung Kong Infrastructure Holdings, the owner of Northumbria and Water.
40:56And you declared £2,000 in football tickets and hospitality.
41:00On that occasion, there was nobody from a water company that was involved in offering those tickets.
41:06There was nobody from a water company at that event.
41:08I wouldn't have known that.
41:10Why didn't you know?
41:10You should have known that.
41:11You said that these sort of people should potentially be in the dock if they have been found to break
41:16the rules.
41:17Because you took £2,000 in tickets and hospitality for a football match from bosses linked to that company that
41:23polluted that water.
41:25Why should people in Northumbria think that you're fit for your job?
41:28Well, I certainly wouldn't have known that.
41:29And judge me by what I do.
41:29Why not?
41:30Judge me by what I do.
41:31No, no, that is what you did.
41:44Environment Minister Steve Reid is pursuing legal action against a group of anglers trying to restore the ecosystem of their
41:52local river.
41:52On the grounds that cleaning up individual rivers is administratively unworkable.
41:59Concerns have been raised about the number of leading labour figures with links to lobbying firms working for water companies.
42:05Among the invited guests at the government's international investment summit was Macquarie Bank.
42:10Described as the vampire kangaroo by critics, Macquarie presided over the near collapse of Thames Water,
42:17leaving it £10 billion in debt after having illegally dumped billions of litres of raw sewage.
42:40Reuben?
42:47Reuben?
42:48I know I can't be left alone with her.
43:07How did it come to this?
43:16How did it happen that England is the only place in the whole world whose water system is wholly privatised?
43:29That our seas and our rivers are full of shite?
43:35I just feel like we're trying to bring down England's biggest organised crime syndicate.
43:43I mean, they're not the mafia, these water companies, they're not a drugs cartel,
43:49but they do dump sewage a thousand times a day.
43:53And almost all of those are illegal.
43:57And the cash they've accumulated, £145 billion since privatisation,
44:04and they've got that because they seem to have built criminality into their business models.
44:11So they are like an organised crime syndicate.
44:16And the CEOs and the owners are like crime bosses.
44:21I mean, they don't murder people, obviously, they're not assassins.
44:28But me and Peter are sitting here, waiting for these crime lords to put things right.
44:36And if we leave them to their own devices, they never will.
44:43They never will.
44:45We've put the things that we own and care about together,
44:52we've put them into the hands of financial speculators,
44:54whose job it is, is just to make money.
44:58We need to put the people who care in charge.
45:02We need to do more in charge.
45:03We need to do more in charge.
45:13We need to do more in charge.
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