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Forensics The Real CSI S06E03
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FunTranscript
00:04Ambulance services, the patient breathing.
00:09Can you breathe?
00:12Okay, listen, you take a deep breath so we can help him.
00:17Okay.
00:18How old is he?
00:19He's 16.
00:20His eyes are full.
00:22What drugs do you want?
00:24Right, someone needs to come back to the phone.
00:26Where are the attackers?
00:27Please hurry up, hurry up, hurry up!
00:31Hurry up now!
00:32No, no, no, no!
00:36Hello?
01:17What's that going for once?
01:19Response officers from West Midlands Police are on their way to a serious stabbing in south
01:25Birmingham.
01:26There.
01:37Single male, massive trauma to his chest and his belly.
01:41Stop moving, little man.
01:42Stay nice and still.
01:43How old are you, Ben?
01:46The badly injured teen is taken to hospital.
01:49Did you see anything, mate?
01:52Whilst officers try to find out what's happened.
01:55I know, we just want to try to get your details, that's all.
02:00What I said, she said they've run out the back of this car park and that's all we've got.
02:09They don't want to talk to us at all, really, so it's a bit difficult.
02:14Lads have found a knife.
02:16We're extending the scene further up.
02:18Just hold.
02:20I don't know, because you're kind of disturbing any evidence.
02:38The next morning, forensic investigator Andy Biggin joined search officers to examine the crime scene.
02:49I've done the big open area bits as far.
02:52In the drains, we can see all of them actually with a torch.
02:58You can obviously see the silver kitchen knife amongst what looks like duck-down feathers,
03:03which may have been from a jacket of whoever's been involved in the altercation.
03:10The other side's quite heavily kind of sold with moisture, having been on a wet ground.
03:17There is a teenage child fighting for his life.
03:24The biggest challenge of the scene is the sheer size to make sure nothing's missed.
03:31Because at this point, I'm unaware exactly what's happened, where it's happened, and how it's happened.
03:39It's a large, large zombie knife.
03:4225 metres away from the kitchen knife, Andy recovers a second deadly weapon.
03:53Any utility of that's going to cause a significant amount of injury.
03:58I'll photograph it with scale.
04:04I'll make notes of what I've identified,
04:08and we'll send it off to the major crime lab to have that examined.
04:14The knives were spread quite far away from each other,
04:18which would suggest that the incident started in one location
04:22and perhaps finished in another location.
04:25The offenders could have fled in any direction.
04:37With the victim fighting for his life in hospital,
04:40the case is escalated to the homicide team,
04:44led by Detective Inspector Abe George.
04:47Morning all then.
04:48So, briefing for Operation Tiffin.
04:52We were called by members of the public and also ambulance
04:54saying that there were treating a male who'd been stabbed to the chest.
04:57An arrival at the QE described as actively dying due to his injuries.
05:02He's got stab wounds to his bowel and his chest.
05:05It's pierced his pancreas, his liver and his kidney,
05:08and he's lost to one kidney.
05:10This has a potential to become a murder investigation.
05:14The victim can't be spoken to because he's in intensive care.
05:17He can't tell us what's happened.
05:20Overnight, there's already been a major development in the case.
05:31A 15-year-old suspect with minor injuries and his brother
05:35have been arrested at a house near the crime scene
05:38after police were alerted by the ambulance service.
05:41So, first suspect, he's currently in hospital with cuts to his hand and his head.
05:46He can't account for his injuries, says he can't remember how it happened, etc.
05:50They come across his brother wearing a jacket that's got, like, kind of slash marks on it.
05:56They've made, obviously, the assumption that he could be involved
05:58and that he's also been locked up for a tent murder.
06:02Both brothers have been evasive with police
06:04and will be interviewed in connection with the stabbing.
06:08I'm presented with two people that are injured.
06:11One victim who's in hospital with serious life-threatening injuries
06:14but I also have the suspect who's also got injuries.
06:18So, it makes it quite complex in terms of what might have actually happened at the scene.
06:23It could be that this was a chance meeting between the two.
06:27They've got involved in a fight
06:28and it just so happens that the victim has come off worse.
06:31It could be that the victim has been attacked by multiple people.
06:35There's a whole host of options that it could be.
06:37And there are two witnesses that we're aware of at this moment in time.
06:41Unfortunately, they wouldn't give statements yesterday.
06:43They've told us categorically, go away, don't darken our doorstep again.
06:46We don't want to give you any statements.
06:49CCTV-wise, we've got the CCTV team
06:52who are going out and doing recovery for us at the moment.
06:55OK, thank you.
07:20So, we've had quite some head injury.
07:22Yeah.
07:23OK, so come and take a look.
07:24This is the body wall footage from the arrest of the first suspect.
07:28Officers were called to the brother's house an hour after the stabbing
07:32when paramedics noticed signs of a knife fight.
07:36What's that for, mate?
07:37Where's his second place?
07:39I can't remember.
07:40Sorry?
07:41I don't remember.
07:42I can't remember.
07:43Do you know who else was involved at all?
07:45I don't remember.
07:47Do you know what you were hit with at all?
07:48Did you see what hit you?
07:49No.
07:50I mean, he's obviously told the officers that he's been hit.
07:56But he's not really, like, kind of disclosing how he's been hit.
08:00I know.
08:01He seems to be quite vague about what happened.
08:03If you're truly innocent, why not give us a full account?
08:06Why not tell us now exactly what happened?
08:09I already told you I went outside.
08:11I got hit with something.
08:12I don't remember what it was.
08:14What else do I want to see?
08:18I think you can probably see from that injury to his hand
08:21and the injury to his other finger,
08:22it looks like a slash mark of some kind.
08:26Feels to me at this moment in time
08:27that he's not particularly forthcoming with information
08:31because perhaps he knows that he's been involved
08:33in some form of criminality.
08:36This is the second suspect, his older brother,
08:39returning to the address.
08:40Hello. What's your name, fella?
08:42Listen, keep your hands where I can see him, mate.
08:44It's been an incident, mate.
08:45It's almost been an incident.
08:46What?
08:47You are.
08:48Looking like you've been in a fight.
08:49I haven't.
08:51It looks like he's got bits of fluff in his hair.
08:53Yeah.
08:54Which could be from an item of clothing that's been slashed.
08:57Yeah.
08:58There's bits of this kind of stuff
09:00near to where the victim was stabbed.
09:04The issue that we've got, it's all circumstantial,
09:07so it doesn't actually prove that they were part of that offence.
09:10Where we don't have any sort of direct evidence,
09:13it does make things more difficult.
09:15I'm hoping that forensics are going to be able to tell me
09:18exactly what happened.
09:21The victim received a single stab wound to his stomach,
09:25but I have two suspects.
09:27So the question is, who's stabbed him?
09:39Lead forensic investigator, Joe Ward,
09:43assesses evidence gathered from the crime scene
09:45to be sent for urgent testing.
09:50You can see quite a large kitchen knife.
09:54The concern is straight away for me is that it appears wet.
09:58I think it's been raining,
10:00which may destroy any DNA that's on there.
10:04It's really unusual to find weapons at the scene.
10:08Normally, when we've got a scene where someone's been stabbed or injured,
10:11the weapons are nowhere to be seen.
10:14So this is a real golden nugget for us.
10:17And then there's another knife.
10:19In fact, it's a very large machete.
10:21I'm quite shocked.
10:22That could do some serious damage.
10:24You know, young people are walking around carrying these large weapons.
10:28It's just quite scary.
10:31I've certainly seen over the years the weapons getting bigger.
10:34The zombie knives, the machetes, the way it's designed is meant to kill.
10:39When I was younger, if there was a fight, it involved fists.
10:43But now, unfortunately, if you're carrying something,
10:45you will reach for that weapon.
10:48For us, it gives us forensic opportunities
10:49to certainly identify if there's any blood on those weapons,
10:53but also who's handled those weapons as well.
11:07First, technician Holly Ruscola examines the kitchen knife
11:11for fingerprint ridge marks that may help police identify the attacker.
11:18I'm using a range of light sources
11:21to see if I can find any visible marks.
11:29So I'm just going to look at the blade of the knife.
11:34I'm currently using UV.
11:40And I'm just trying to see if there's any ridge detail
11:43that may be exposed from the light sources.
11:49The blade is negative for any marks.
11:53I'm going to look at the handle now.
11:58And I can see some ridge detail on the handle of the knife.
12:07It's just there.
12:12But there's not enough to be able to send up
12:15to the fingerprint bureau.
12:17So I'm going to class this as being no value.
12:20As you can imagine, a kitchen knife you use regularly.
12:23So what tends to happen is you get overlay
12:26of an overlay of fingerprints.
12:27So it's quite hard sometimes to actually be able
12:31to get a decent identifiable fingerprint from it.
12:38The focus turns to the 16-inch machete,
12:41which is taken to be swabbed for DNA.
12:44So I'll go ahead and I will take
12:47and handle a sample.
12:49This is to recover any possible
12:51cellular material of anyone who has handled
12:55the knife.
13:00So I've spotted some
13:02red-bound staining visible here
13:04on the cutting edge of the blade.
13:09And then you put a dot of KM on,
13:13a drop of H2O2.
13:17And there we have a nice pink reaction,
13:19which is an indication that there is blood present.
13:23So there you get cut off
13:26and then put in an autorized tube,
13:29which will then get sent to DNA.
13:33We don't need an awful lot of blood nowadays
13:35to obtain a DNA profile from it.
13:39No, we only need a pinprick size sample.
13:42If this comes back to the victim,
13:45we can say that this knife has been used
13:47to cause these injuries to the victim.
13:49And then it's about trying to identify
13:51if one of the brothers actually handled that knife.
13:56While the victim remains critically ill in hospital,
14:00suspect one, the 15-year-old who was also injured,
14:03is now fit to be questioned.
14:10So everything that we see now
14:11is being audio and video recorded.
14:15When I interview juveniles,
14:17I always try to bear in mind the fact
14:18that they are children at the end of the day
14:20and they might be scared,
14:22they might have never been in police custody before.
14:25So it can be quite challenging to get them to open up.
14:30So, tell us about your involvement
14:33in this incident, if any at all.
14:36I have got prepared statement.
14:38We can't.
14:42I will maintain that I am the victim of a crime.
14:44I sustained injuries of a very serious nature.
14:47All these injuries were sustained
14:49by a knife attack that I was subjected to.
14:51I will maintain that I acted in self-defence.
14:54I felt my own life was in danger.
14:56I responded reasonably.
14:59I see your right hand in a cast.
15:03Talk to you about how that knife caused that injury.
15:08I remember I was hit first with the knife.
15:13Yeah.
15:14Like, chopped.
15:15Yes.
15:16I put my hand up like this.
15:18The camera can see it now.
15:20Put it up to block it.
15:21Yeah.
15:22And then, yeah, it's chopped my hand.
15:25And then what happened after that?
15:27After that, I can't really remember.
15:28I think I fell on the ground or something.
15:31I think, yeah, I think I fell on the ground
15:33and then something hit me on the back of my head.
15:36After that, I think I was knocked out.
15:39He accepts his presence at the scene
15:42but states that he was the one that was attacked
15:44and he was just defending himself.
15:46So it makes it difficult to establish
15:48who is, you know, a suspect and who is a victim.
15:52You say, I'll maintain that I acted in self-defence
15:55and then you say, I responded reasonably.
15:59Tell me about how you responded.
16:02No comment.
16:04Did you stab him?
16:06No comment.
16:07Is that what you mean when you're saying that
16:09you were acting in self-defence?
16:11Did you stab him in response to him slashing you?
16:15No comment.
16:15No comment.
16:17OK.
16:18Insight, you concluded.
16:19Self-defence is a really tricky one for us to prove
16:22but also for us to disprove.
16:25It's not clear-cut.
16:26We are going to have to look at
16:28was he acting reasonably and proportionately?
16:31Did he feel that his own life was, you know, in danger,
16:34that he needed to, like, kind of lash out?
16:36And so, therefore, forensics are going to be really key
16:38in helping us build up a picture about what happened
16:40and how he came by those injuries.
16:54To help investigate suspect one's claim of self-defence,
16:58Joe assesses the victim's clothing
17:00for signs of how the attack unfolded.
17:06As you can see, it's been cut down the middle
17:09which has been caused by the ambulance at the scene
17:13and they put it back together.
17:16Fucking jigsaw puzzle this is.
17:19Was it a prolonged attack?
17:20They just attempted to stab him once
17:22to then prove whether it was self-defence is quite difficult.
17:28We know a victim suffered one stab wound to the chest
17:31but a victim's clothing can tell you a completely different story
17:35to what you actually see on the body.
17:37Sometimes, on clothing, we see more attempted kind of stab wounds
17:41and that may be because, you know, the victim's running away
17:43or he's moving and weapons only just managed
17:46to actually cause the damage
17:47but not actually penetrated through to the skin.
17:50Straight away, I can kind of see a damage mark here
17:53and then a bit lower down, kind of to the waist area.
17:57Again, it appears to have been caused by a sharp instrument.
18:00And that's gone all the way through
18:01but there's no corresponding marks in the T-shirt
18:04and the question is,
18:05has the weapon made contact with the actual coat itself?
18:08It's gone through but then not penetrated the actual T-shirt.
18:12This clothing tells us that the attempt on the actual victim itself
18:15was more than just that one stab wound.
18:18It really highlights the level of force that was used,
18:21how frenzied the attack has been.
18:24It's likely that his thick coat saved his life.
18:27He's lucky to be alive.
18:34Police now want to interview the older brother, suspect two,
18:38whose own coat had apparent slash marks when he was arrested.
18:43Did you have any involvement in this incident?
18:47I've got a prepared statement with half of my client.
18:52I denied the allegation of attempted murder.
18:55I'm not responsible for this offence.
18:57I have not injured or stabbed anyone at all.
19:00On the night in question, I was at home.
19:02It was only after my brother went to hospital
19:05that I threw on the coat that he was wearing that evening.
19:08That is my brother's coat.
19:09This is because once the police and ambulance left,
19:12I was not thinking straight
19:13and I went outside to go and see what happened.
19:16I will not be on CCTV at the time of the incident.
19:19I deny the allegation entirely.
19:25OK, so you threw on the coat he was wearing that evening.
19:32What exactly made you put his coat on
19:35as opposed to your own coat?
19:38I'm trying to keep an open mind as to what might have happened
19:41and there is a possibility that he's telling the truth,
19:44that he was not involved.
19:46But then equally, there is also a possibility
19:49that he's either covering for his brother
19:51or he's also an offender.
19:54OK, I haven't got any further questions.
19:57It needs to be concluded.
20:03At this moment in time, I can't categorically say
20:05that he's involved with this incident.
20:07You know, this is a juvenile.
20:08So I have a limited amount of time I can keep him in custody.
20:12Is the forensic evidence going to actually tie him to the scene?
20:25With suspect two claiming the ripped jacket
20:28belongs to his younger brother,
20:30it's sent for urgent DNA testing
20:32to see if they can confirm who was wearing it during the attack.
20:37The first thing I'm going to do is take a wearer sample.
20:42So I'm going to start by mini-taping the inside colour.
20:51When the surface comes in contact with the skin,
20:53it can leave behind little skin flakes and oils and stuff
20:56and that's just what we're picking up on the tape.
20:59And it should pick up any cellular DNA that's in that area.
21:04What we need to do is establish, you know, whose jacket that is.
21:09However, although they don't share the same DNA
21:12because everyone's got their own unique DNA,
21:15because they live together and they may share that jacket,
21:19it may prove difficult to actually say
21:21who's the wearer of that jacket at the time of the attack.
21:26I'm just looking at this area of damage to the hood.
21:32So the cuts have quite a straight edge to them
21:35so it does look like the hood has been cut
21:37by a sharp object such as a knife
21:42rather than if it is torn
21:45the edges would look quite frayed and different.
21:47There's quite a bit of red-brown staining here
21:52that looks like it could be blood.
21:55So I'm just going to use my scalpel
21:58to cut out a small area of this stain.
22:01I can get those samples sent off to DNA now
22:04and we'll see if we can get a profile.
22:13This jacket's really crucial to this investigation.
22:16If that blood comes back to victim,
22:19then, you know, that would suggest
22:21that the person wearing that jacket
22:22was certainly at that scene
22:24and in close proximity to the actual victim
22:27and involved in this incident.
22:32Right, OK.
22:35So that's a Sainsbury's camera.
22:37That camera is looking along that frontage
22:40so it's pointing in that direction.
22:44I've been able to get various items of footage.
22:48CCTV specialist Zed Ahmed
22:51is piecing together footage from numerous cameras
22:54in an attempt to track the movements
22:57of the brothers and victim
22:58on the night of the attack.
23:02CCTV work, it's quite niche
23:04and I think one needs a lot of patience.
23:08It's really important that you don't miss any detail.
23:12Because CCTV footage doesn't lie,
23:15it acts as a kind of reconstruction tool.
23:19This is a short walk away
23:21from where the stabbing took place
23:24and I can see the victim
23:27goes to McDonald's
23:28with two other females.
23:38You need to be cautious
23:39when watching night-time footage.
23:42It's grainy,
23:43it can be quite misleading sometimes.
23:46You can get the wrong impression
23:47so that's really important
23:49to keep an open mind.
23:57He's in McDonald's
23:59for quite some time.
24:00If I just run it forward,
24:05two minutes past midnight,
24:07he leaves by himself.
24:09Unfortunately for us,
24:11that part of the main road
24:12is not covered by CCTV cameras
24:15and I can't track him any further.
24:18It's chilling to think
24:19that he will be stabbed soon
24:20after this.
24:35So, I just thought I'd update you
24:37because I've just had the results back.
24:39Both knives found at the scene
24:41and the ripped jacket
24:42have been tested for DNA.
24:44So, if I start off
24:46with the silver kitchen knife...
24:48Yep.
24:48..no blood was found on that
24:50and there's no fingerprints
24:52that were found.
24:53Then we go on to the machete.
24:56So, there was blood
24:58that was found
24:58on the actual blade
24:59but that's come back
25:01to suspect one.
25:04And there was DNA
25:06that was taken
25:08from the handle
25:10and that has actually
25:11come back to a victim.
25:13OK.
25:14So, suggesting that
25:15that was victim's knife.
25:18OK.
25:19That's interesting.
25:20Why was the victim
25:21carrying a knife?
25:22If he's had to go somewhere
25:24to meet somebody with a knife
25:25he's potentially expecting
25:26some trouble.
25:28They've both stabbed each other
25:30but who struck who first?
25:34The blood on the outside
25:36of the jacket
25:36has been profiled
25:38to suspect one
25:41but no victim's blood
25:42so that fits in
25:43with the account
25:44of suspect two
25:45that he's actually
25:47borrowed
25:47his brother's jacket
25:49after the event.
25:51I'm not sure
25:52if you've been given
25:52an update
25:52from the prepared statement
25:54that suspect one
25:55gave in the interview
25:56which was that effectively
25:57he was acting
25:58in self-defence.
25:59he was attacked
26:00and that's obviously
26:01why he's lashed out.
26:03So, obviously,
26:04some of those results
26:05does go some way
26:06to, like, kind of
26:07support him
26:08his account.
26:13I'll be
26:14sorting out your bail.
26:15So, you are going to be
26:16released from custody today
26:17but there are
26:18actually certain
26:18bail conditions
26:19that are going to be
26:20attached to you
26:20on the right.
26:23So far,
26:24none of the forensic evidence
26:26links suspect two
26:27the older brother
26:28to the stabbing.
26:31I don't feel
26:32that we've gathered
26:33enough evidence
26:34that we can go
26:34and approach
26:35the Crown Prosecution Service
26:36in order to authorise charges.
26:37It may actually be
26:38the evidence doesn't exist
26:39because he's not involved
26:40but equally,
26:42the investigation
26:42will continue.
26:43it doesn't stop
26:44just because
26:45someone's been bailed.
26:46Thank you, Sergeant.
26:48Whilst suspect two
26:50is released on bail,
26:51his younger brother
26:52remains in custody.
27:06So, we've received
27:07in both suspect one
27:08and suspect two's devices.
27:10I'm just going to take
27:11initial photographs
27:12of both of these.
27:14In a bid to find
27:16a motive for the attack
27:17that connects
27:18the brothers to the victim,
27:20all three teenagers' phones
27:21are sent for data
27:22to be downloaded.
27:25Suspect one's device,
27:26it's very damaged.
27:29The camera's smashed,
27:30the back's smashed,
27:31the slight cracking
27:32to the front of the device.
27:34Just have to be very careful
27:35when we're extracting
27:36the data from this.
27:49just showing that the device
27:51is encrypted.
27:52Apple devices are notoriously
27:54difficult to get into.
27:57It doesn't look like we've picked up
27:58a lot from images,
28:00videos or chats.
28:05There's literally
28:05next to nothing.
28:07Now, starting on suspect two's device.
28:15I'm not actually seeing
28:17a lot of images,
28:18videos or any kind
28:19of media whatsoever.
28:20It doesn't appear
28:21like there's much data
28:23from the extraction
28:24at all
28:25because it's probably
28:26a newer phone,
28:26that's why.
28:28Although the suspect's
28:29devices are encrypted,
28:30the victim's phone
28:31is unlocked
28:32and the data downloaded
28:34for digital media
28:35investigator
28:36Sherry Watkins
28:38to analyse.
28:39I think when it comes
28:40to digital evidence
28:42these days,
28:43it's one of the most
28:44crucial elements
28:45of an investigation,
28:47especially when you're
28:48dealing with teenagers.
28:49They are addicted
28:50to their phones.
28:51The phones are the world.
28:52They're everything.
28:54So I know that
28:55the victim's phone
28:56was used to phone 999.
28:58So that call,
28:59I've got that on here.
29:00So that was at 0049 hours.
29:06I'm going to go back
29:07a couple of hours
29:08and see if there's
29:08any content of note there.
29:10The first thing I want to do
29:11is look to see
29:12if there's any contact
29:12between the victim
29:13and one of the suspects.
29:16Chances are,
29:16with the age,
29:17it's going to be
29:18Snapchat, TikTok
29:19because kids rarely use
29:21network calls,
29:22network text messages
29:23these days.
29:24It's usually all apps.
29:25He's got some stuff on here
29:26that I usually find
29:28on teenagers' phones.
29:29There's a chat here
29:31where he's swapping
29:32rap songs
29:34with somebody.
29:35A lot of it's
29:36just chats with friends
29:38by the look of it
29:38and maybe a girlfriend.
29:40What else have we got?
29:42He's using Snapchat
29:44quite a lot.
29:45You can do direct messaging
29:46but the thing with Snapchat
29:48that attracts a lot of them
29:49to it is the fact
29:50that it disappears
29:50quickly afterwards.
29:52So the content's gone.
29:54It can't be retrieved.
29:55But we have got some data
29:56that comes back
29:57back on the phones.
30:00From the data,
30:01Sherry is able
30:02to pinpoint communications
30:03between the victim
30:04and suspect one.
30:07It looks like
30:08there's a large volume
30:09of messages
30:10between like nine o'clock
30:11at night
30:11and quarter to one
30:13which is pretty much
30:14like a couple of minutes
30:16before this all kicked off
30:17and there are 242 messages
30:20and they're literally
30:21like bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.
30:23And there's a couple
30:23of phone calls,
30:24there's some like video calls
30:25on there.
30:27But annoyingly,
30:28I can't see any of the content.
30:29It does make me wonder
30:31what was being said.
30:34As much as it's frustrating
30:35because I don't have the content,
30:37those messages were being
30:38bandied back and forth
30:39and they literally finished
30:40seconds before
30:41the attack has taken place
30:43which would suggest
30:45that there was
30:46potentially a pre-arranged meet
30:47between the victim
30:48and suspect one.
31:02I've got some further footage here
31:04from the Sainsbury's car park.
31:08With the phone data
31:09suggesting a planned meeting,
31:11Zed has tracked the victim
31:13to the car park
31:14close to where he was found stabbed
31:15and discovered a major lead.
31:19I can see he's on his mobile phone.
31:23He's now walking backwards
31:26and forwards.
31:27I wonder whether he's
31:28waiting there for somebody.
31:36To the left of the frame
31:38I can see three individuals
31:40running in the direction
31:41of the victim.
31:43The victim is walking off
31:46to the right of the screen
31:47and these three individuals
31:49are chasing him.
31:52It's three individuals
31:54that are involved
31:54in this incident.
31:55That's significant that is.
31:57Who is this third suspect?
32:00Who is doing what?
32:03The footage is not the clearest.
32:05It's dark at the time.
32:06Their faces are covered.
32:08They're wearing dark clothing.
32:09At this moment
32:11I'm unable to identify
32:13who the actual suspects are.
32:16If I just pause it there
32:18and take it back slightly
32:20I've just noticed something.
32:22I've zoomed in here
32:23onto the CCTV footage.
32:26And just there
32:27something that caught my eye.
32:31He's clearly holding an item
32:33that's shiny.
32:34It's got a reflective quality.
32:36It's certainly consistent
32:37with a knife.
32:38And he's holding that
32:39in his right hand
32:40as he's running
32:41in the direction of the victim
32:42I imagine to attack him.
32:49The victim and the individuals
32:51have gone off the screen
32:52and I don't think
32:53I've got footage
32:54from that particular location.
32:58Is it a set-up?
33:01It's very difficult then
33:02for a suspect to argue
33:03that they acted in self-defence
33:05and therefore used
33:05reasonable force
33:06if actually what they've done
33:08is arranged to meet somebody
33:09with a view to
33:10having some disorder with them.
33:15There's obviously still
33:16some outstanding offenders.
33:18There is either one
33:20or possibly two
33:20outstanding offenders.
33:22It's really important
33:23that we get this third person
33:24into custody.
33:25The longer that that takes
33:27the more opportunity
33:27they have
33:28to dispose of
33:30any weapons
33:31any clothing
33:32dispose of any mobile phone
33:34all things that may link them
33:36to the other suspects
33:37and the scene.
33:44So he's critical but stable
33:46they're still monitoring him
33:48he's having regular scans
33:49we'll see what happens
33:51with him over the next couple of days
33:52and I'll let you know.
33:57Zed has widened his search
33:59for the three attackers
34:00on CCTV
34:01and alerts aid
34:03to new footage he's found
34:04from the brother's local area.
34:07How are you getting on Zed?
34:08If you sit down
34:09I'll just lead you through it.
34:13Footage here
34:15shows suspect number two
34:17leaving Key's address.
34:19Climbing out of the house
34:20through the downstairs window
34:23he then makes his way
34:25over the road
34:26to the other suspect's address
34:29followed by suspect number one
34:31he takes the same route.
34:34Zed is able to track both brothers
34:36as they're joined by the third suspect
34:38minutes before the stabbing.
34:42Both suspects follow suspect number three
34:46and you see all three suspects
34:48as they walk onto the road
34:50and in the direction of the car park.
34:52That's a good clear image of this isn't it?
34:57All three suspects chase the victim.
35:00We believe these three individuals
35:03have attacked the victim.
35:05This changes everything.
35:07We have a third suspect
35:09and we now know that
35:10that person lives
35:12in the same street
35:13as our two suspects.
35:18An arrest team heads
35:20to the new suspect's address.
35:29Where they find a 15-year-old
35:31who resembles the figure
35:32seen on CCTV.
35:34You are under arrest
35:36and suspicion of attempted murder
35:37and possession of an offensive weapon.
35:40Do you want to put some clothes on
35:42or I'm going to have to put
35:43some handcuffs on you, okay?
35:50Suspect two, the older brother
35:51who was released on bail
35:53is also re-arrested.
35:55We're here in relation to
35:57the incident that you were
35:58previously arrested for.
36:00Basically we've had
36:01further evidence
36:02that we need to question you about.
36:04Where's your phone?
36:05We know you've got a phone here, May.
36:07We can turn the place upside down
36:09or you can give us the phone.
36:10Give me the phone, otherwise...
36:13Stop being silly.
36:18My God.
36:20Stop being silly.
36:23It's like...
36:32Did you hear what the allegation is
36:33regarding the attempt murder?
36:36Vulnerable IP due to ache?
36:38Yes.
36:39And what's he been arrested for?
36:41Attempting murder.
36:43You've heard what the officers have said,
36:44so just pop your hands out of there
36:45for me, please, mate.
36:46I am authorising your detention here.
36:48That means you're going to remain here
36:49with us for a time
36:50so that we can secure and preserve evidence
36:52and you can be interviewed.
36:53All right.
37:01Police now have three teenagers in custody
37:04who are their prime suspects.
37:22So, I've got the phone down load for suspect three's phone now.
37:25I mean, there's loads of stuff on here with his mum.
37:29I know I do that to the kids, like...
37:31I can't be arsed to shout up the stairs to them.
37:34I'm sorry for this morning.
37:35When you wake me up angry, I'll get in a bad mood,
37:37but I'll clean the kitchen and the living room for you.
37:39It's like, aww, when you read stuff like this,
37:41you realise that they are only kids, aren't they?
37:44I'm going to click on to the notes section.
37:47So, I've got 207 notes
37:50and I can see already that there are some...
37:52..what looks like rap lyrics.
37:55And it might be a case of, if I go through all these lyrics,
37:59there might be something mentioned in the incident.
38:02Teenagers will talk quite freely amongst each other
38:04when it comes to their phones.
38:05They think it's a safe environment.
38:07They'll have, like, a false sense of security
38:09that what they're discussing will never be read by anybody.
38:12And they're often surprised when they are.
38:16So, if we have a little listen.
38:24He's all about sitting in the trap.
38:27Probably a car.
38:34I chop it down to stones,
38:37which is going to be potentially a reference to a drug line.
38:41It looks like there's some stuff around drug dealing.
38:44Some lists and some amounts.
38:47There's references about chinging people, splashing people,
38:53wetting people,
38:54which all of them are in reference to stabbing.
38:58Wearing ballys, balaclavas, shanks, with your knives.
39:03It certainly doesn't really paint a pretty picture, does it?
39:07Teenage slang.
39:09It's really hard to decipher sometimes.
39:11You have to decode them.
39:13Latest one I've got was Flizz.
39:15That was a new one on me.
39:17I thought that was a person for a while
39:19because people have some crazy street names.
39:21And then it turned out that Flizz was bad.
39:25The difficulty is they share lyrics
39:28and they share songs with each other,
39:30but it's hard to work out
39:31whether they're talking about something that has actually happened,
39:33whether it's something they want to get involved in,
39:35or whether it is just pure fantasy.
39:36Trying to work out what's facts and what's fiction, really.
39:41Sherry also examines a new, unencrypted phone from Suspect 2,
39:45which police found on him when he was rearrested.
39:49He's got nearly 45,000 images on this phone,
39:54but I can filter them down.
39:56There's one here tagged tonight's vibe
40:01of a male posing with what looks like a very large hunting knife.
40:07Now, his face is blurred out,
40:09but there's a second video, like, literally six minutes after this,
40:12of Suspect 2, and I can see it's him.
40:14His face isn't blurred and he's wearing exactly the same clothing,
40:20so it looks like he has had, or has in his possession,
40:23a rather large hunting knife at some point.
40:25I mean, this kid here's got a Rambo knife.
40:28And these are all different kids.
40:30I don't know who they are, but they all look about the same age,
40:33like, kind of, like, mid to late teens.
40:36You're talking Rambo knives and zombie knives,
40:38they're that big, and they're deadly weapons.
40:41They're really blasé about it.
40:43They don't seem to care.
40:44That shouldn't just be a normal thing for, you know,
40:4715-, 16-year-olds to do, but it seems like it is these days.
40:57Sherry updates Aid's team
40:59to see whether any of these discoveries can be used as evidence.
41:03Profile 2's phone that we've had off him.
41:06There's a lot of pictures of knives, isn't there?
41:08They're very looking, aren't they?
41:09Aren't they vile? They're, like, giant, like, hunting knives.
41:12I can't see anything that specifically mentions the incident itself
41:17that I can see.
41:19OK.
41:20Attempting murder is a very difficult crime to prove.
41:23We have to demonstrate to the court
41:25that those individuals had the intention to kill the victim
41:30so that they had jointly acted together
41:33in order to inflict that injury.
41:35Can we actually prove that?
41:40The knife used to attack the victim has not been found,
41:44so Joe meets with digital imaging specialist Lucy McGregor
41:48to analyse a 3D scan of his injuries.
41:52The stab wound would have been along this line somewhere.
41:55This is just a scar from where they've opened him up for surgery
41:58to assess the damage within his stomach area.
42:02The process, known as body mapping,
42:04may reveal clues to what kind of knife was used.
42:08It did a lot of damage on the inside,
42:10so there was wounds to the front and back walls of the stomach
42:13and also the left lobe of the liver was damaged as well,
42:16as well as a laceration to the pancreas.
42:19The left kidney was also damaged and had to be removed.
42:22So it must have gone in quite deep then, hadn't it?
42:24Yeah, very deep, yeah.
42:26Body mapping is really useful
42:28because you can see the angle that the knife's gone in.
42:32There could be a whole range of scenarios
42:34of what position he was in, if he was moving at the time
42:36or was he crouched down when the knife went towards him.
42:39You know, it's obviously quite a significant weapon
42:41to cause, you know, those injuries.
42:44Whether it's perhaps gone in at an angle as well
42:46or kind of repeatedly gone in.
42:49Possibly an angle to then hit his kidney up here.
42:53There's a lot of questions and a lot of unknowns, really,
42:55of the kind of sequence of events.
42:58I think the impact is when you actually see,
43:00oh, my God, it's gone right through and it's nicked his kidney.
43:03But the frustrating part is the fact that we can't identify
43:06which weapon was used and who actually used that weapon
43:10to cause the injuries to the victim.
43:12This could kind of jeopardise the case, really.
43:20On this particular CCTV footage, we've got all three suspects
43:24as they make their way away from the crime scene post-events.
43:29After searching dozens more cameras,
43:32Zed has located the suspects fleeing down a side street
43:35and found more than just images.
43:39It appears as if they are avoiding the main roads.
43:43And this particular footage has audio recording.
43:47Brilliant.
43:51You can hear there, they're having a conversation amongst each other.
43:56I'll just adjust the settings here.
44:04So the one suspect says to the other,
44:06is that your blood?
44:07And he replies, no.
44:11Takes his jacket off and hands it to the other suspect.
44:16They then go off onto a side road.
44:19This particular footage here that we've obtained also has audio.
44:26He's quite far ahead of you, isn't he?
44:28Look, he's powering ahead.
44:33Saying that he's dropped his shanks.
44:35OK.
44:36So that he's dropped his weapons.
44:39One of the other suspects then says he's done the same.
44:42The third suspect says that he's in possession of his weapon.
44:46That CCTV with the audio is really a key find.
44:51All three suspects make reference to either being in possession of a knife
44:56or having been in possession of a knife.
44:59And clearly this is incriminating evidence.
45:06And all three then run off, off camera.
45:10You can hear the tyrants in the background, can't you?
45:13I wonder if that's what makes them start to run.
45:16The audio footage from the CCTV demonstrates that they were all armed with weapons.
45:23It suggests to me, really, that all three people jointly acted together
45:28in order to inflict that injury.
45:32One of them, it looks like he's holding his head.
45:36Right, you see here that right hand is touching the back of his head.
45:41I imagine he may have sustained an injury during this altercation.
45:45And I'm aware that suspect number one did sustain a head injury
45:49as well as an injury to his hand.
45:58All three suspects now face questioning about the new footage.
46:03Starting with 15-year-old suspect three.
46:07I want to show you some footage.
46:09And this has got sound,
46:10so I want you to pay attention to what you can hear as well.
46:15Come, I dropped my shanks.
46:17Come, I dropped my shanks.
46:19What does that mean?
46:21No comment.
46:22His shanks means knives, doesn't it?
46:24No comment.
46:25So you're shouting back at them that you dropped your knives.
46:28No comment.
46:29Do you agree that that's you that said that?
46:32No comment.
46:33I can't run, sir.
46:35Which one of the brothers said that?
46:37No comment.
46:40Suspect two, the older brother,
46:42who previously denied being at the scene,
46:44is next to be re-interviewed.
46:47I'm going to show you now some images.
46:51These three males entering the rear of Sainsbury's.
46:57I believe that person there is yourself.
47:00Can you tell me any different?
47:02No comment.
47:03What was your purpose of going on to Sainsbury's car park?
47:07No comment.
47:09Did you have a knife when you went to that car park?
47:11No comment.
47:12You see, that person there has got an object in his hand.
47:16Can you tell me what that is?
47:17No comment.
47:18Is it a knife?
47:19No comment.
47:23Suspect one is also questioned about the evidence,
47:26which challenges his claim of self-defence.
47:30This is my final offer to you.
47:32Will you tell me in detail everything that happened during that incident?
47:48Right, 1742, and I'm switching the machine off.
47:50Yes, thank you.
48:01We have three suspects who have been present or have attacked our victim.
48:07For me, that diminishes the self-defence aspect
48:12that was put forward by suspect one and made it less believable.
48:20So I now really need the victim's account to help build that story
48:24that then gives the best understanding about what happened that evening.
48:35Right, so do you want to talk me through basically what happened to you?
48:42There's a breakthrough for the team.
48:44The victim is finally well enough to give a witness statement
48:48and reveal his version of events.
48:51We had agreed on meeting up, just me and him.
48:55We never agreed on no fighting, no violence,
48:57but we just agreed on meeting up.
49:01He confirms that suspect one arranged to meet him on the night of the stabbing.
49:06He had sent me a snap.
49:07He said, oh, I'm on my way.
49:09He was just saying he doesn't want problems.
49:11He was convincing me, making it seem like, oh, it was all going to be fine.
49:13And when did you fall out with him?
49:16We played for the same football team.
49:18He was my friend as well.
49:20It's just we fell out after I had a problem with one of his friends
49:22who used to also play for that team.
49:24So you had a problem with his mate over...?
49:28It was a play fight that went too serious and he threatened to stab me.
49:33I look up and then I see three masked people running up at me.
49:42And then they pulled out their knives.
49:44OK.
49:45His older brother had a kitchen knife and his other accomplice had two knives.
49:50I don't know what type of knives, though, but he took out two knives.
49:52So then I took out my knife and, like, held it out towards them.
49:57OK, so tell me, what made you take your knife out of that point?
50:02Because I knew they were trying to kill me.
50:04That was their intention.
50:05What made you take that knife with you when you went to see him?
50:09I felt that the need to have something to protect myself just in case,
50:13because I know the type of person he is.
50:15So what was your intention when you took that knife with you?
50:20For self-defence.
50:21I just wanted to keep it to myself.
50:23They were all running up at me.
50:24They were all just trying to swing at me
50:26and I was just trying to swing to keep them away from me.
50:28OK, so hold it there for a second.
50:30And what was your intention when you were just swinging your knife?
50:32To get them back, to get them to run away.
50:35They would go back to pretend they were going to go away,
50:38then they would come back again and try and attack me.
50:40They just wanted to kill me.
50:42Who's coming at you?
50:43They all took swings at me.
50:45It was like they were taking turns.
50:47They were playing with me.
50:48They knew they could kill me, but they were just playing with me.
50:53And that was when he just came and he stabbed me through.
50:57The victim names Suspect One as the person who stabbed him in the chest.
51:04I didn't feel pain.
51:05I just felt like there was something inside me.
51:08And then when he was trying to take it out,
51:10it was just like it jammed in my kidney.
51:14And that was when I swung as well,
51:16because the adrenaline kicked in.
51:17I don't remember.
51:18I'm pretty sure I caught him somewhere here on his arm.
51:21When you struck him with your knife,
51:24how many times did you do it?
51:26I can't remember.
51:28I'm pretty sure it was once or twice.
51:30I just started running down the road.
51:32I was running for my life.
51:33His adrenaline helped me.
51:35I was just running.
51:39It's really pleasing that the victim's given us an account
51:42and that he is willing to support our investigation.
51:45But it's really important that we don't just take it at face value.
51:48You know, we need to make sure that what we're being told is true.
52:01OK, that's interesting.
52:03And there are some lyrics on here.
52:07One of them has actually got the name,
52:10street name of our victim in it as well.
52:12Sherry has been digging deeper into Suspect 2's new phone,
52:16which he used after the offence,
52:19and hidden amongst the many notes, discovered a song lyric.
52:24Fucked at NHS, are you taking the piss?
52:27And then there's the street name of our victim.
52:29Should have got packed that day, but he got revived.
52:32Three shanks up, when we booked that prick, we done it all flizz.
52:36But we don't give a shit.
52:3736 hours, banged up in sales.
52:39I ain't no rat, don't talk to the pigs.
52:42Fucked, street name of our victim.
52:45Should have been in my spliff.
52:47They're mentioning our victim.
52:49They're mentioning the fact that he should have got packed that day,
52:52which I'd suggest means body bagged, killed, but he got revived.
52:58Three shanks up, three knives up.
53:01But I ain't no rat, don't talk to the pigs.
53:04Great.
53:05That first verse definitely sounds like what happened on the night.
53:08It's mentioning our victim.
53:10And he's clearly very upset that the NHS managed to save his life.
53:16I find it mind-boggling that you would brag about nearly killing somebody.
53:21I just, I can't wrap my brain around that.
53:24It's like writing a confession down in the form of rap.
53:27It's so incriminating.
53:36Aid meets with Joe to assess whether there's strong enough evidence
53:40to charge all three teenagers with attempted murder.
53:45Attempt murder is probably one of the hardest defences
53:47because you've got to show that intent.
53:49We need to show that there was an intention to kill.
53:52To kill, yeah.
53:52The victim is saying that, you know, he was attacked by all three people.
53:58We know from phones that there was potentially a meet-up arranged
54:03and therefore that they've gone there in order to, like,
54:07kind of sort out some issue, like, kind of between them.
54:10I think that shows, actually, that they were all aware
54:13of what was going on that night.
54:15I was going to say, you've got kind of three against one, haven't you?
54:17Yeah.
54:17Yeah.
54:18Which shows that they were the aggressors.
54:20Yes, we know that suspect one has got some injuries.
54:23Yeah.
54:23But the severity of, like, kind of the victim's injuries,
54:26the fact that he was on his own
54:27and the fact that, obviously,
54:29he's seen, like, kind of people are running towards him.
54:31Towards him.
54:32That evidence is an element of planning.
54:35I think diminishes self-defence,
54:37given, you know, that knife crime is such an issue.
54:40I think it's only sensible, really,
54:42that we discuss that with CPS.
54:45Yeah.
54:46We've got mobile phone evidence.
54:48We've got CCTV evidence.
54:50You know, by putting it all together,
54:52that then helps us to show what has happened
54:56and able to demonstrate to the court
54:58these three individuals have attacked the victim
55:02and caused that very significant injury to him.
55:10Can you come and stand at the desk, please?
55:13We're going to be charged, OK,
55:15with some very serious offences.
55:18The Crown Prosecution Service decides
55:21that all three suspects should face the same charges.
55:25You're going to be charged with the following offences.
55:28First offence, attempted murder.
55:31Second charge, had with you in a public place
55:33an article which had a blade or was sharply pointed,
55:36namely a kitchen knife.
55:37I do know that you're 15 years of age
55:40and they are very serious and grave offences
55:43for which you've been charged.
55:46It is hard sometimes to step back and think,
55:50wow, these are only, like, 15-, 16-, 17-year-old kids.
55:52When you really boil it down,
55:54we're not talking about grown adults here,
55:55we're talking about kids
55:56that have got their whole lives in front of them.
55:59What the hell are you doing?
56:00If you understand those charges,
56:01if you can sign right here,
56:03that's not to say you're admitting to anything,
56:04it's just to say that you've understood the charges.
56:06So, let's see.
56:35So, let's see.
56:45We never take the pleas to lesser offences lightly,
56:49but it's incredibly difficult in order to prove an attempted murder.
56:52Actually, I believe this was the right thing to do in these circumstances.
56:56We have achieved some justice for the victim and his family,
57:00and hopefully this will set a clear message to young people
57:03to the dangers of knife crime and the dangers of carrying knives.
57:21MUSIC CONTINUES
57:22MUSIC CONTINUES
57:31Unfortunately, in a case like this, you know, it affects so many people.
57:35The victim has got now life-changing injuries for the rest of his life.
57:41I can only imagine what the victim's family,
57:44but also the suspect's family, are going through.
57:48It's so sad that they've got their whole life ahead of them.
57:51You know, I'm sure they all had aspirations
57:53of what they want to do in the future.
57:55You know, and that's been taken away from them, really,
57:58from a moment of bad choices that they've all made.
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58:04Every contact leaves a trace that forensic experts can follow.
58:09Explore it for yourself
58:10with the Open University's new interactive case simulator.
58:15Scan the QR code on screen
58:17or visit connect.open.ac.uk forward slash real CSI.
58:27MUSIC CONTINUES
58:38MUSIC CONTINUES
58:39MUSIC CONTINUES
58:50You
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