Stefan Molyneux on the Scott Adams School! March 2026

Stefan Molyneux

Appearing as a guest on the Scott Adams School, Stefan Molyneux reflects on personal agency and the pull of despair while paying tribute to Scott Adams. He addresses the particular struggles confronting younger people today and argues that moral courage combined with genuine optimism carries far more weight than dwelling in dark or defeatist stories. The discussion turns to justice and forgiveness, where he stresses that real reconciliation depends on meaningful accountability rather than avoidance. He ends by urging clarity within oneself despite surrounding chaos, encouraging those listening to keep seeking understanding and real human connection.  For more from the The Scott Adams School, go to:  X: https://x.com/ScottAdamsSays  Locals: https://scottadams.locals.com/  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@RealCoffeeWithScottAdams  0:00:00 Introduction and Welcome  0:01:41 Remembering Scott Adams  0:04:01 The Impact of Recordings  0:05:30 The Weight of Despair  0:08:06 Love and Courage in Relationships  0:12:07 Building Happiness at Home  0:13:28 The Challenge of Freedom  0:15:18 Overcoming Economic Despair  0:17:00 The Power of Connection  0:21:28 Wealth and Opportunity  0:24:49 The Cycle of Fear  0:28:24 The Nature of Actionable Philosophy  0:34:21 The Price of Goodness  0:36:26 Understanding Punishment  0:38:58 Finding the Positive  0:41:53 Perspectives on Self-Defense  0:45:23 Balancing Sympathy and Justice  0:53:51 The Complexity of Forgiveness  1:01:41 Closing Thoughts and Farewell   GET FREEDOMAIN MERCH! https://shop.freedomain.com/  SUBSCRIBE TO ME ON X! https://x.com/StefanMolyneux  Follow me on Youtube! https://www.youtube.com/@freedomain1  GET MY NEW BOOK 'PEACEFUL PARENTING', THE INTERACTIVE PEACEFUL PARENTING AI, AND THE FULL AUDIOBOOK! https://peacefulparenting.com/  Join the PREMIUM philosophy community on the web for free!  Subscribers get 12 HOURS on the "Truth About the French Revolution," multiple interactive multi-lingual philosophy AIs trained on thousands of hours of my material - as well as AIs for Real-Time Relationships, Bitcoin, Peaceful Parenting, and Call-In Shows!  You also receive private livestreams, HUNDREDS of exclusive premium shows, early release podcasts, the 22 Part History of Philosophers series and much more!  See you soon! https://freedomain.locals.com/support/promo/UPB2025

Transcript

00:00:00All right. Is everyone looking good? Feeling good? Big plans for the weekend?

00:00:06I see some people coming in. Just put your coat down there and come up front. We have room.

00:00:13You're not going to want to miss Stéphane Molyneux, famed philosopher, guest professor extraordinaire.

00:00:23And he's ready to get our mindset straight.

00:00:30All right, guys, there's something we need to do before anything else can happen.

00:00:34So grab a vessel of any kind. Are we ready? I'm ready. Let's go.

00:00:42There's a little thing I like to do. It's called the simultaneous hip, and I know you like it, too.

00:00:48And that's why you're rushing to get in here on time.

00:00:52Imagine how bad you'd feel if you were in the, let's say, the third 1,000 people to come in

00:00:59here.

00:01:00And you missed the simultaneous sip. Well, you'd feel sad all day.

00:01:04No, you wouldn't. But it's better if you have it.

00:01:08And you're going to have it right now.

00:01:10And all you need is a cup or a mug or a glass, a tank or chalice or stein, a

00:01:16canteen jug or flask, a vessel of any kind.

00:01:19Fill it with your favorite liquid.

00:01:21I like coffee.

00:01:22And join me now for the unparalleled pleasure, the dopamine hit of the day, the thing that makes everything better,

00:01:28the simultaneous sip.

00:01:31Go.

00:01:35Oh, yeah.

00:01:37Yeah, that's good.

00:01:42I miss him. I love that.

00:01:44And he's right. It does make the day better.

00:01:48All right, you guys.

00:01:49So I'm Erica.

00:01:51We are here at the Scott Adams School.

00:01:53Like I said, oh, it's Friday the 13th.

00:01:55This is a good luck day.

00:01:57I just want you guys to know that, especially if you're Italian.

00:02:01So turn that thought around.

00:02:03If you think it's not good luck, it is.

00:02:06And proving that point, we have Stefan Molyneux back with us, probably one of the most downloaded philosophers we have.

00:02:15And we did some facial warm-up exercises with him before this show.

00:02:20He's in a good mood.

00:02:21We're in a good mood.

00:02:22And we're going to get everybody in the right mind frame.

00:02:25So, Stefan, I'm just going to turn it over to you.

00:02:28And you can set our minds straight.

00:02:30Welcome.

00:02:32It's, I still miss him.

00:02:35You know, it's funny to see him up there on the screen.

00:02:38And it's a wild thing now because the archives of Scott's shows and his books and all of the work

00:02:44that he did,

00:02:45I'm sure there are a bunch of his speeches that are recorded when he was out there being a public

00:02:48speaker.

00:02:49And it's wild because normally people go out of focus over time.

00:02:53You know how you age?

00:02:55Well, some people age when their eyes get a little blurry.

00:02:58You've got to glass it up and so on.

00:03:00And so, people kind of go out of focus.

00:03:02Like, we don't know Socrates because he never wrote down anything.

00:03:05We only know what Plato said about Socrates.

00:03:09Aristotle's original works are long gone, but we have his students' notes from which they've tried to reconstruct his books

00:03:15and his thoughts, which is a real shame because Aristotle was considered to be a better writer than Plato.

00:03:19So, and Plato's writing is fantastic.

00:03:22And so, we don't know what happened with the trial and death of Socrates because there's no transcripts.

00:03:28There's only Plato's recollections.

00:03:30You know, however much he loved Socrates, we can't expect much objectivity.

00:03:34But the funny thing is now, because everything is recorded, everything is archived, everything is there forever, that Scott won't

00:03:43go out of focus.

00:03:44People will be able to reference him.

00:03:46And of course, his AI comes along, which has its own hallucinations, but I'm not convinced any more than the

00:03:50average person does.

00:03:51Because as AI comes along, it can summarize and you can look things up and cross-examine Scott as his

00:03:57text and his words transcribed are out there.

00:04:01And I'm going through a basement cleanup.

00:04:03I know this sounds like a real left turn here.

00:04:05I'm going through a basement cleanup at the moment.

00:04:07So, I'm coming across all of these old photos.

00:04:09And I have photos that my father sent me of my ancestors from like 1902.

00:04:15And, you know, they're peering out of this blurry alternate dimension.

00:04:18But, of course, now we're all high def.

00:04:21We don't age.

00:04:22Our voices don't degrade.

00:04:24You listen to old recordings of opera singers and it sounds like, you know, some Martian going through a tin

00:04:30can.

00:04:30But now all of the richness of our thoughts, the vividness, we will never age.

00:04:34We will never die.

00:04:36And I think that's really a wonderful thing.

00:04:38The closest thing, I think, in the past was the epistolary format where you could get letters from people.

00:04:43But that's not quite the same as actual conversations.

00:04:46So, it is always startling to me.

00:04:48Maybe I'm just old.

00:04:50But it's always startling to me when someone who's gone is talking right there as if he was still here.

00:04:57And that gives a kind of ache, of course.

00:04:59I'm glad that all Scott's recordings and his statements are all there forever and ever.

00:05:04Amen.

00:05:05There's no library of Alexandria that's going to burn the whole thing down.

00:05:09And just having him come back just reminds me of, you know, all the value that he brought and all

00:05:15of the great things he had to say.

00:05:16And all of the things that I thought were actionable.

00:05:19You know, this is one of the things you don't get from academics, but you get from public intellectuals.

00:05:25And I would certainly put Scott in that category is that what he did was actionable, right?

00:05:31There's a lot of stress and strain and not just rumors of war, but actual war that is going on

00:05:36in the world.

00:05:37And, you know, one of the things that is very easy is to feel overwhelmed, to feel helpless.

00:05:43You know, they call it among the young now bed rotting.

00:05:45I don't know if you've heard this term, but bed rotting is when you just lie in bed and you

00:05:49scroll and it's bad news and it's bad news and it's overwhelming.

00:05:53And I think that is a very great temptation.

00:05:58You know, people love to court despair and I'm not even going to count myself out of this number.

00:06:03This is a pretty wide net that includes my big chatty forehead, but people love to court despair because despair

00:06:10is an excuse for inaction.

00:06:12You know, like I talk to guys on my show who are like, oh, you know, I like this girl,

00:06:16you know, but she'd never go out with me.

00:06:18And it's like, well, first of all, don't make that decision for her.

00:06:21And secondly, despair is an excuse to avoid courage.

00:06:27And in many ways, the courage is simply reserving your actions for that which you can most affect.

00:06:34It's easy to be courageous in the abstract.

00:06:37It's easy to be courageous.

00:06:38I watched the movie recently, Stand By Me.

00:06:40I don't know if you've ever seen it.

00:06:41It's an old Rob Reiner film.

00:06:43And in it, there's a self-insert of the writer.

00:06:46The writer in all stories, the writer is the hero because the writers like to project themselves into that.

00:06:52And of course, it's an old movie.

00:06:53I don't think there's much of a spoiler.

00:06:54But in the end, the writer pulls a gun and fends off these bullies.

00:06:58And you just know that didn't happen in real life.

00:07:01It's a fantasy of what the writer wanted to have happened that's recreated on screen because I doubt that he

00:07:06pulled a gun

00:07:07and warded off all of these teenage thugs.

00:07:10And there were no negative repercussions.

00:07:12But I think, Scott, one of the things I always got out of him was you can change what is

00:07:17in your mind.

00:07:18You cannot easily change what is in the world.

00:07:22And certainly, with regards to politics and war and debt and the propagandizing that has replaced higher education,

00:07:29you and I, we can provide alternatives.

00:07:32We can provide ways of reviewing it.

00:07:34But we can't change it.

00:07:35We can't go in and rewrite the curriculum to be more reason and evidence-based or more rational or more

00:07:40moral or more empathetic or more curious or anything like that.

00:07:43But what we can do is we can do two things.

00:07:47And I think I focused on one.

00:07:48Scott focused on the other a little bit more.

00:07:50For Scott, I think it was in the reframe.

00:07:52You can change the way that you think about things.

00:07:56In the old Hamlet sense, there's nothing good or bad, but thinking makes it so,

00:07:59which is a bit too far for me as a moral philosopher, but definitely very, very important.

00:08:02And the other thing you can do is you can bring as much honesty and courage as you can to

00:08:09your relationships.

00:08:12Because one of the things that this bad writing or the doom scrolling is going to do is it's going

00:08:17to fill you full of despair.

00:08:18It's going to fill you full of helplessness and hopelessness.

00:08:21And unfortunately, that releases you from the challenge of moral courage, but it also releases you from the possibility of

00:08:28actually being loved.

00:08:29So I have a formulation for love that is love is our involuntary response to virtue if we're virtuous.

00:08:35And I'm not talking, you know, some massive warlike virtue or anything, Genghis Khan resisting.

00:08:41I'm talking about just, you know, the basic honesty and integrity to think clearly about what you believe in,

00:08:48to stand up against falsehoods, to promote a truth to some reasonable degree.

00:08:54You know, there are some truths that are still quite radioactive and we don't want to go the Charlie Kirk

00:08:59route.

00:08:59At least, I don't think Charlie Kirk did and I certainly don't.

00:09:02So sort of maximum truth while still being able to draw breath because truth tellers get axed in society on

00:09:10a fairly regular basis.

00:09:11Although now we've upgraded to deplatforming, which is very, very civilized compared to a big cup of hemlock.

00:09:17And so to sort of divide the world into things we can change and things we can't, which is an

00:09:23old bromide, but very true.

00:09:24To work on telling the truth in our personal lives and to approach people with love and affection and resolution,

00:09:33right?

00:09:34So we want love and affection.

00:09:35We want to think the best of people and then give them the opportunity to behave in a positive manner.

00:09:40Give them some grace period because it all takes people a while to change and adapt to the truth.

00:09:45But then at some point, you know, if they simply resist truth or are hostile or hateful to have the

00:09:50courage to say no more and to then end up with the very best thing in the world.

00:09:55We can't have much control over our political freedoms.

00:09:58We can't have much control over the censorship complex or the deplatforming complex that both Scott and I were, I

00:10:06could say, victims of.

00:10:07We were liberated by.

00:10:09We were set free to have more integrity by having our audience sharply reduced.

00:10:14You know, if you're a jazz musician, it's better to play a club than a stadium because what do they

00:10:18say?

00:10:19A stadium is three chords to 10,000 people and jazz is 10,000 chords to three people.

00:10:24So I think Scott made that choice and I think it was a good choice in a lot of ways.

00:10:29And so if you can act in reasonably courageous and honest and enthusiastic moral ways to bring the truth to

00:10:39people around you, to bring reasonable levels of truth to society, to have maximum effective courage, then you do get

00:10:47the great benefit of being loved.

00:10:48And having the capacity to love and having the capacity to love and to be loved.

00:10:53And it really doesn't matter if you have a First Amendment in politics or you have free speech in society,

00:10:59if you are censored in your own relationships because you're afraid of upsetting people, you're afraid of bothering people, you're

00:11:05afraid of imposing, quote, imposing things on people, or people are going to blow up and react negatively to the

00:11:11truths that you're in pursuit of and you're delineating.

00:11:14And if you have that kind of virtue in your life and you have those kinds of people in your

00:11:20life, you have a better life than the King of France 200 years ago.

00:11:26I've talked to a lot of people over the course of doing my show for 21 years who have wealth,

00:11:32professional success, and yet are heavily censored in their relationships, are unhappy in the home.

00:11:39You know, build a happy home.

00:11:40I really don't care about my tax levels.

00:11:42Like, I'd rather have a happy marriage and be taxed at 80% than be taxed at 0% and

00:11:47be unhappy at home.

00:11:49So, building the kind of happiness at home, building the kind of honesty in your relationships that gives you a

00:11:55good chance, or the only chance, really, of being loved and reframing things so that you can look at them

00:12:02as positively as possible is, I think, our greatest chance to achieve a kind of happiness.

00:12:07And what I really strongly resist, and I won't monopolize the whole thing, but what I really strongly resist is,

00:12:14don't surrender more than you have to to bad actors in the world.

00:12:18Look, we can't control who goes to war.

00:12:19We can make our recommendations.

00:12:21We can make our case.

00:12:22But if people choose to go to war, don't let them further invade your peace of mind.

00:12:28You have to have very, very strong fences in this world.

00:12:32You know, if they're going to tax you at 50%, don't give them 90%.

00:12:36You know, if they're going to control you for two hours of the day, don't then think about it for

00:12:40the other 22 hours of the day and be frustrated at that, because then you're never free.

00:12:46Surrender what you have to, reserve for yourself every remaining freedom and option.

00:12:53And I think if we do that, that is maximum freedom.

00:12:56And I think that can't help but spread to other people.

00:12:58If we are bedrotting, if we are doomscrolling, and we are spreading despair, we are enslaving people beyond what is

00:13:06inevitable in society.

00:13:07You're going to be enslaved to some degree in society.

00:13:10You're going to be forced to do things by the law that you don't agree with.

00:13:12You're going to be forced to pay for wars that you don't support.

00:13:15And other things.

00:13:17So, you know, pay what you have to and not one thin dime more and reserve everything else for your

00:13:23own contentment, love, and happiness.

00:13:25I really can't think of a better way to live your life.

00:13:29I got a lot of that from Scott, and I'm adding maybe a spice of cayenne pepper to the mix

00:13:34as a whole.

00:13:35I love that.

00:13:36Oh, and did you want to say something?

00:13:38Well, I definitely think it is a problem today that a lot of people seem to be very discouraged and

00:13:42in despair.

00:13:43I see some of that in my own kids.

00:13:45I certainly do everything I can to turn that around every time it comes up.

00:13:49And I think I'm pretty successful with it.

00:13:53But I also saw a story I may have posted a day or two ago that said something like a

00:13:58third of people think the end of the world is coming within their lifetime, which just sounds so crazy.

00:14:05You know, I mean, to me, I would say that's, you know, a one in a million chance, one in

00:14:08a billion, one in a trillion, like it's not going to happen.

00:14:12And somehow a third of people, at least on a poll, are saying, I think the end of the world

00:14:17is coming very soon.

00:14:19And so it does seem like a lot of people are discouraged.

00:14:21A lot of people are economically discouraged, thinking I'm never going to own a house.

00:14:24I'm never going to have the American dream.

00:14:27Everything's rigged against me.

00:14:28There was another poll that talked about that, where people think the economy is rigged against them.

00:14:33So it's definitely a big problem.

00:14:35And I don't know exactly what's causing it.

00:14:37I mean, I'm sure there is some reality in there.

00:14:39But to me, it's only a grain of truth.

00:14:41It's not the big picture.

00:14:44And that's kind of what I talk about with my kids.

00:14:46It's like, you know, my son would say, oh, I'm never going to be able to afford a house.

00:14:49I'm like, yes, you will.

00:14:50You will be able to afford a house.

00:14:52Maybe not today.

00:14:53It might take you five years.

00:14:55But if you save for a down payment like you are, and if you have a good job like you

00:14:59have, you're going to be fine.

00:15:01I mean, my son is doing really well.

00:15:03Like he's probably in the top, you know, 10% for people his age in terms of his income.

00:15:08And I'm just like, you know, I can see the reality because of my age, you know, the history.

00:15:13I've seen bad times economically.

00:15:15I've seen good times.

00:15:16You know, my parents went bankrupt when I was in high school.

00:15:18I've seen ups and downs in my own life, too.

00:15:21But, you know, having that perspective is really helpful to me to say, okay, things might look bad.

00:15:28But they're not really as bad as they seem.

00:15:31And things are going to get better.

00:15:33But, Owen, don't you think a lot of this has to do with what they are seeing in the news

00:15:41and on TikTok and social media?

00:15:44I mean, if I go on X within like 30 seconds, I'm like, oh, my God, I got to get

00:15:51out of here.

00:15:52Everything is so leveled up.

00:15:55And I think especially for younger people, you know, it seems like reality.

00:16:00You know, you had AOC telling young kids that the world was going to end in 12 years.

00:16:04Luckily, we survived that.

00:16:07But I get it.

00:16:08You know, like kids are so scared.

00:16:10And then there's a lot of like scared parents.

00:16:12And then they're putting that fear into their kids.

00:16:14And I don't know.

00:16:15I just think that we have to be really careful, you know, what we're telling younger people, what they're seeing.

00:16:22And I think between having Brian Romelli here yesterday, you know, pointing out that experiment with the mice and it

00:16:30was like, yeah, you know, everybody's got to feel useful.

00:16:33You've got to like make your own way.

00:16:35You can't become like that sloth, lazy person.

00:16:39And so it was like, you know, what my takeaway was, was like turn off the noise and like just

00:16:44get grounded back in reality and connect with people more, more eye contact, more socializing, send letters and cards instead

00:16:53of texts and, you know, kind of get back to basics.

00:16:56And I think kids were so much happier.

00:17:00I don't know.

00:17:01I mean, you guys can tell me in the chat.

00:17:03I think kids were happier when they didn't have all this stuff in their face all the time and they

00:17:06were just using their imagination and playing.

00:17:09But I think that's what's happening.

00:17:10I'll turn it over to Stefan.

00:17:13That's interesting.

00:17:14Yeah.

00:17:14So one of the things that we have a very wealthy generation, the boomers were the wealthiest.

00:17:20Gen X is the second wealthiest in all of human history.

00:17:22Now, call me a madcap optimist, but if after, you know, 14 billion years of the universe and 4 billion

00:17:30years of life and a million plus years of human beings, you are only the second wealthiest generation in the

00:17:37history of the planet.

00:17:38It's a little tough to cry, woe is me, when you came in second out of 4 billion years, 4

00:17:47billion years.

00:17:48Oh, no, you bought the second wealthiest generation.

00:17:51That's that's pretty precious.

00:17:52You know, like, well, you know, it's true that I won 20 million dollars in the lottery, but there's some

00:17:58other guy who won 23 billion dollars at 23 million dollars.

00:18:02So I'm I'm down 3 million.

00:18:03It's like that's what you that's what you focus on.

00:18:06I focus on the incredible opportunities that exist.

00:18:10Look, we're all here having this conversation to thousands and thousands of people without a TV studio, without having to

00:18:16apply places, with no gatekeepers.

00:18:18We can talk within reason about whatever it is that we want to do.

00:18:22You can make a living in a Thailand cafe doing doing work online.

00:18:27There's AI assistants that make being an entrepreneur infinitely easier than when I started being an entrepreneur in the 90s.

00:18:35There's there's ways to connect with people in the present.

00:18:40I was around before the Internet, you know, before the Internet, when I wanted to start a philosophical debate, I

00:18:45took an ad out in the newspaper and set up a PO box and people mailed me stuff.

00:18:51I read it.

00:18:52I wrote letters back.

00:18:53I mailed it back.

00:18:54Like, that's how crazy things were.

00:18:57Now you can just set up a server.

00:18:59You can get going.

00:19:00You can live stream.

00:19:01You can.

00:19:01So the opportunities of communication and connection and community for people who genuinely think for themselves is something that was

00:19:09beyond our possible imagination.

00:19:13Even just a couple 20 years ago, 25 years ago, it was impossible.

00:19:17Now people like Scott, people like this show, people like me, we're able to create communities as is just about

00:19:23anybody to be able to bring people together and to think we never would have met in any alternative universe.

00:19:30There's ways to make money from home.

00:19:31There's ways to put your mind into solving humanity's problems, you know, with a $300 laptop and your cell phone.

00:19:39And that is absolutely unbelievable.

00:19:41The other thing, too, is that when you grow up in a wealthy household, you grow up in a house,

00:19:46you know, maybe it's 2,500 square feet.

00:19:48It's got three or four bedrooms, a little backyard and so on.

00:19:50And so you think, well, that's what I should have.

00:19:53And it's like, but your parents didn't have that when they were teenagers and your parents didn't have that when

00:19:58they were in their 20s.

00:19:59So I didn't even get a car until I was in my 30s.

00:20:01I bought my, with my wife, my first house or our first house in my 30s.

00:20:05And so you're not supposed to have these things when you're young.

00:20:09And so it feels like being almost kicked out of paradise.

00:20:11It's like, I love this lovely suburban home with two cars and all of that.

00:20:15And now I'm going out there and I'm, I lived in a house with five roommates when I was in

00:20:22my 20s.

00:20:22I moved 18 times because I went to various universities and then worked up north and all of that.

00:20:27And so you're supposed to live this semi-starvation, vagabond, rubbing shoulders with the proletariat lifestyle in your teens and

00:20:36in your 20s.

00:20:36And if all you do is compare that to the wealth that your parents accumulated in their 40s and 50s,

00:20:41it makes no sense.

00:20:42It makes no sense.

00:20:43So you're going to be kicked out of paradise if you grew up in a happy home.

00:20:47It's going to take you a while.

00:20:48And listen, it may be true.

00:20:50It may be true that maybe you won't end up making as much money as your parents.

00:20:53It may be, just may be, instead of being the first wealthiest generation in the history of the planet or

00:20:59the second, you might in fact only be the third.

00:21:02Only be the third wealthiest generation with opportunities that your parents could never have dreamed of.

00:21:09The amount of conformity that was required prior to the internet because you could only deal with the people in

00:21:13your immediate environment who were strict at conforming.

00:21:16The fact that you can go out and find like-minded people on the internet, I mean, it has its

00:21:20pluses and minuses.

00:21:21Some sexual deviancy gets reinforced by r slash dating toasters or whatever it is.

00:21:25But for the most part, it's a fantastic and positive thing.

00:21:28And the last thing I'll say is, with regard to doom and gloom, it's a tale as old as time.

00:21:35And you can read Roman texts about the youth are completely corrupt and decadent and society is going to end.

00:21:41Now, their society ended, but society as a whole did not.

00:21:44I grew up with a nuclear war.

00:21:46If you're older than all you fresh-faced, young-looking people on this or young people, I'm going to be

00:21:5260 this year, which means I was born in 1966, which means I grew up under the shadow of the

00:21:56Cold War with TV shows actually funded by the Kremlin, it turns out, to terrify us about nuclear war and

00:22:05the end of the world.

00:22:06Then, when that began to fade a little bit, ooh, we got global cooling, that we were going to turn

00:22:11into an ice age and we were going to all end up like Encino Man.

00:22:14And then we got global warming, and then we got killer bees, and then we got the ozone layer depletion.

00:22:19And I'm not saying none of these things were at all relevant, but they certainly did not turn out to

00:22:23be anywhere close to the hype and fear that was being promoted.

00:22:28Because the powers that be want to keep you nervous, want to keep you scared, want to keep you jumpy

00:22:33for two reasons.

00:22:34One, it makes you want to flock to authority.

00:22:36When we feel nervous, we flock for protection.

00:22:39And number two, if you're nervous and jumpy, then you can't relax into the kind of confidence and happiness that,

00:22:48again, to go back to what I was saying earlier, ends up with you being loved.

00:22:52And if you're not loved, then you can't found families, you can't have children, and that means you don't have

00:22:58anything to fight for.

00:22:59If they can get you to not have children as a whole, assuming you can, if they can get you

00:23:03to not have children, they've won most of the battle.

00:23:07Because then, what do we fight for?

00:23:09We fight for our kids, right?

00:23:10I mean, I live a pretty comfortable life, but I want to make sure the world is a better place

00:23:14for my child.

00:23:16And so, keeping you jumpy keeps you isolated, keeps you so unhappy that no one can fall in love with

00:23:21you, which means you can't get married and have things that you love that you want to protect.

00:23:28And if you have people that you desperately love and desperately want to protect and desperately want to make a

00:23:33better world for, well, you get to do some great things in the world that have their risks.

00:23:38Of course, as most people have found out who've spoken uncomfortable truths.

00:23:43But this PSYOP, I mean, just think of all the things.

00:23:47Sometimes when I really want to waste an hour, I'll sit there, and I think everyone does this probably at

00:23:53one time or another, and I go through the list in my head and I say,

00:23:56Okay, let's just think of all the things I was worried about in my life that did not come true.

00:24:05I mean, I'm not too bad at prognostication, but I got to tell you, it's an embarrassing list.

00:24:09I've never been able to get to the end of it.

00:24:12Because what happens is, I'm like, God, I think of all the things I worried about that didn't come true.

00:24:17And now I'm worried that I'm wasting time thinking about all of the things I'm worried about that didn't come

00:24:21true.

00:24:21And it just goes round and round and round and breaking out of that cycle and realize that while caution

00:24:26and fear and sometimes even anxiety can be a healthy thing,

00:24:29it definitely can be a rut that you get into and it does become an excuse for inaction and it

00:24:37then does become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

00:24:39Because the world ends in our hearts if we're unloved long before the tiny percentage possibility that there's going to

00:24:46be big dislocations in the world come to pass.

00:24:49So, again, that's sort of back to Scott, that you control what you can, focus on the positive, and have

00:24:57the courage to build a life that you'll do almost anything to protect.

00:25:01Because that's the only way we're going to get to preserve our freedoms going forward anyway.

00:25:04I love that.

00:25:06So, I want to remind everybody, listen, you guys, as one of the hosts here on the show, it's my

00:25:12job to remind you that everybody has different opinions.

00:25:17And, you know, we don't always agree with everybody who's a guest.

00:25:21A lot of you disagree with me.

00:25:23And that's all good.

00:25:25But sometimes I want to reference like a contrarian point of view.

00:25:31Even maybe it's something that is even contrarian to how I personally feel.

00:25:38And I want to put it out there because if I'm having like even a little feeling about something or

00:25:43Owen is or Marcella is, there's a bazillion people that fall in line with that.

00:25:48So, it's good to put those things out there just to hear a take on it and try to represent

00:25:54people.

00:25:54But I, and also, you know, I, like I said yesterday, I didn't always agree with Scott.

00:26:01But maybe I don't always agree with Stefan or Owen or Marcella, and that's okay too.

00:26:06But if you can like just pick up some genius tidbits here like I am, I think overall, sometimes, like,

00:26:15you know, when they say when you go to therapy, it's not the therapy session where the work happens.

00:26:20It's after therapy, when you're out in the real world and things come at you and thoughts come at you

00:26:26and then you're like, you know what, like, maybe I remember Stefan saying that and that's a good way to

00:26:32look at that.

00:26:32I can reframe this thought in my head and, you know, maybe there's an alternate.

00:26:38So, I like it.

00:26:39I like hearing all sorts of opinions.

00:26:42Um, I want to hear them all.

00:26:44I want to hear what, you know, even if, you know, some people are like, well, I know the difference

00:26:49between, you know, emotion and reality.

00:26:52Like, okay, I do too.

00:26:54Um, but some things, you know, like I, I still feel, I feel things, even though I know the difference,

00:27:01I still have a feeling, I have a reaction.

00:27:04So, that's why I like to bring these things up and, I don't know, I think it's important that we

00:27:10understand that we, you know, we're like a little teeny, teeny little microcosm of the everyday people that you're dealing

00:27:17with out there.

00:27:17So, unless you're only talking to people who fully agree with your exact mindset, which is never going to happen,

00:27:24this is just like, you know, we're like a little world right here.

00:27:27Um, so, I, I appreciate all of these things and also these are just opinions, okay?

00:27:34So, that's my little spiel that I needed to say in the middle of this and we're sorry that YouTube

00:27:40isn't working right now.

00:27:41We'll get on with it.

00:27:42Um, Marcella, did you have any questions from the group or Owen?

00:27:45I see a lot of questions going by.

00:27:49Well, I, I, I guess I wanted to talk about this in terms of philosophy.

00:27:53Stefan, you mentioned virtue as being one of the important things and that that would lead you to being loved

00:27:59and having, you know, what I would call a good life.

00:28:02I think that's how some of the ancient philosophers talked about it as, you know, you'll have a good life

00:28:08if you live this way, if you have these virtues and you stay away from the vices and things like

00:28:12that.

00:28:13Um, and it seems like more modern philosophers like Nietzsche, for example, had a much more negative take on things.

00:28:19And they would say how the bad people are being put in power and the good people are being put

00:28:24down.

00:28:25And the other thing that I noticed when I studied Stoic philosophy was they pointed out that back in those

00:28:32ancient philosophy days, philosophy wasn't actually a very actionable thing.

00:28:37Like it was, it was teaching you how to live life.

00:28:39It was, it was meant to be very actionable.

00:28:42You would send kids to these schools to study so that they knew how to live a good life.

00:28:47Um, but it somehow transformed into this more academic discipline and also became much more negative, I think.

00:28:54Um, so how would you go about maybe selecting the right philosophy?

00:28:59And, um, you know, do you think philosophy should be more of an actionable thing where you're actually saying, okay,

00:29:04I'm going to adopt my philosophy based on the actions I'm going to take and, you know, try to live

00:29:09the way my philosophy tells me I should.

00:29:12Well, philosophers have always had a pretty uneasy relationship with actionable things in the world because Socrates took pretty significant

00:29:20action in the world and ended up, as you know, being murdered by the state.

00:29:24Plato said, well, you know, enough of this theorizing, I'm going to go into politics.

00:29:28And so he ran for office in Syracuse and ended up being sold into slavery by, uh, his political opponents

00:29:35and only got accidentally freed by one of his students who paid 400 drachma to relieve him of, uh, his

00:29:41burden of being a slave.

00:29:43So it's kind of uneasy, uh, in terms of doing things in the world, uh, evil doers are very happy

00:29:50if we just sit and think because they get to do their evil deeds without interference.

00:29:55And so whenever you do good, and again, to reiterate on Scott's legacy did a lot of good and brought

00:30:03a lot of uncomfortable truths to the fore, his stuff about DEI and being a white male in the hiring

00:30:08environment.

00:30:08And to, uh, to, to name one of, of many, many things that he did that was very honest and

00:30:12courageous and, and really, really important to, to talk about.

00:30:17But, uh, but, uh, one of the things that I think is, is really important is to focus on action

00:30:24that can be sustained and that there's this tension.

00:30:29We, we want to do good in the world, but when we do good in the world that is actionable,

00:30:33we interfere with the designs of evildoers, right?

00:30:37People who want to control and bully and subjugate and humiliate and, you know, sadists and political power mongers of

00:30:43every kind, addicts to political power.

00:30:45Like political power is a, is a genuine measurable addiction.

00:30:49They've done these studies in, I think it's in bonobos.

00:30:51As bonobos climb higher in the social hierarchy, hierarchy, they get more dopamine.

00:30:56Like they, it is an addiction and it hollows out the personality to control other people, which is why control

00:31:03freaks tend to be so empty and also so violent.

00:31:06Because anytime you interfere with the supply of a drug, the addict gets manipulative, hostile, emotional terrorism and violence will

00:31:12often emerge.

00:31:14So when you promote freedom, independent thought, skepticism, reason, all of the stuff that Socrates was promoting and even the

00:31:22pre-Socratics were promoting, then you interfere with the goals of the addicts of power.

00:31:30And the addicts of power, you know, whatever you say, your enemies get your say back, right?

00:31:34You can promote as much as you want and, you know, you can fire these horrible missiles into Iran and

00:31:40Iran gets its responses, which are going to be somewhat unpredictable because the fog of war is essential to any

00:31:46approach to victory.

00:31:49So you want to do good in the world that is practical and actionable, and then your enemies get their

00:31:58response.

00:32:00And then there's blowback and there's all of these challenges that they'll work to, you know, do the two things

00:32:04that people generally do in the modern world if they're in the wrong and can't make a good case is

00:32:08they'll, you know, attack your source of income and they will attempt to destroy your reputation.

00:32:14And I think Scott, if I have this right, and of course you guys would remember this, but I think

00:32:18he said he lost over a hundred million dollars in his support of Trump as a result of deals falling

00:32:26through.

00:32:26And he had a very lucrative speaking engagement career that he lost most of.

00:32:33And so there's prices to be paid.

00:32:35Of course, we want to leave good behind us more than money, because if evil doers get their way, your

00:32:42money ends up worthless anyway.

00:32:43Because they print it into oblivion or just steal it in some Bolshevik style revolution.

00:32:48So, yeah, we want to do good.

00:32:50And it's a sad thing about the world.

00:32:52It's always been the case.

00:32:53The more good you do, the more you can be loved.

00:32:55The more good you do, the more you're going to be hated.

00:32:59You know, like if it's sort of the argument is if you cure cancer, then all the people who have

00:33:04got cancer will love you.

00:33:06All the people who are currently profiting off whatever they do to try and treat cancer now will not be

00:33:12happy with you.

00:33:13The guy who invented the car, people liked the car.

00:33:16All the people who shoveled horse poop off the roads and sold horses instead of cars, they weren't so keen

00:33:23on that.

00:33:23And that's just practical stuff.

00:33:25And so the price of being loved is being hated, and the price of doing practical good in the world

00:33:34is getting blowback, which is why a lot of philosophers like to sit in dark rooms, think and scribble, and

00:33:39not really interfere with the plans of anyone who's doing bad things.

00:33:42But, you know, we kind of have to interfere with the plans of people who are doing bad things, because

00:33:48that's the only kind of measurable courage that gets us love.

00:33:51To get love is to get hate.

00:33:54To me, it's a worthwhile bargain.

00:33:55I would much rather be loved by my wife, my child, and friends and family, and have, I don't know,

00:34:00some mean typing on Wikipedia, than I would be innocuous to evil, which means impossible to be morally admired and

00:34:10therefore loved.

00:34:11It's just a deal that I'm willing to take, and I think that sort of framing, which I think Scott

00:34:16would somewhat appreciate, because he sacrificed a lot for the course of what he perceived, too, and I think was,

00:34:22in fact, the good.

00:34:24And the loss is immediate.

00:34:26The gains in terms of love and happiness take a long time, but it's well worth the wait.

00:34:32I wanted to say something.

00:34:34Thank you, Stefan.

00:34:35I wanted to say, Andy Wang has a question.

00:34:39He said, how do we do good when doing good is punished, like Daniel Penny got punished and during the

00:34:46process for saving people?

00:34:48He was the one that was on the train.

00:34:51I get that, Andy, because you do get punished, right?

00:34:54So how would you respond to something like that?

00:34:58So you can look at punishment as a negative, or you can look at it as a guidepost.

00:35:04So when I was, I worked up north after high school, gold panning and prospecting, and this is long before

00:35:10GPS and satellite phones or anything like that, and the big terror was getting lost, because it's just endless wilderness

00:35:16up there in northern Canada.

00:35:18It just goes on and on, and, you know, several people a year would get lost and die.

00:35:24So what do you do?

00:35:24You blaze, right?

00:35:25It's one of the things you do is you blaze trees so that you can always find your way back.

00:35:29When I was in Africa exploring the jungle as a teenager, and my father lived there, I would put little

00:35:35stones in arrows so I could find my way back.

00:35:39So you can look at punishment as just a negative, or you can look at punishment as a sign you're

00:35:47doing something right.

00:35:48So when I was in the business world, I would go up against other companies to try and get contracts

00:35:52for the software that I wrote, and I don't want my competitors to like me.

00:35:59In fact, I want them to mutter and curse when I come into the room.

00:36:04And so you can look at this kind of punishment as, oh, it's a negative, and it's a hurtful, and

00:36:08it's a harmful thing, or it's a sign that you're doing something right.

00:36:14And if you just look at it as a negative, you're going to be scared away from doing the right

00:36:18thing.

00:36:19If you say, well, you know, the old cliche that they only shoot at you when you're over the target

00:36:25kind of thing.

00:36:26So you can look at it as just pure punishment and negativity.

00:36:29And, you know, with regards to the Daniel Penny situation, it is very risky in a leftist-controlled judicial system

00:36:37to act in any manner of self-defense or defense of a third party.

00:36:42They are, for reasons we can get into either this time or another time, depending on the interest of the

00:36:47audience and the panel, they're very pro-criminal, and they're very anti-self-defense.

00:36:54And, of course, as a white male as well, you have all of these other political considerations that are a

00:36:59challenge.

00:37:00So if you are in a heavily leftist-controlled legal system, then self-defense is probably too risky in defense

00:37:09of another is too risky.

00:37:11You know, there's an old saying, it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 in terms of

00:37:15the coffin.

00:37:18So self-defense, yes, defense on behalf of another can be risky unless it's someone you really care and love.

00:37:24But you are going to get opposition, and you are going to get hostility for doing good in the world.

00:37:32And you can look at that as a huge negative that is only isolated as a negative, but everything is

00:37:39a cost-benefit in life.

00:37:40Everything is a cost-benefit in life.

00:37:42If you look at the cost, you get depressed.

00:37:44If you look at the benefits only, you get overly cocky.

00:37:47You want that Aristotelian mean, right?

00:37:49Too little courage, you're a coward.

00:37:50Too much courage, you're foolhardy.

00:37:52And you're running thinking you're Wonder Woman into some machine gun nest.

00:37:55And you let out, right?

00:37:56This goes very badly from there.

00:37:57So try and find that balance.

00:38:01And it is.

00:38:01It's a changing and emerging situation.

00:38:04The cost of doing good is that you will get blowback, and you will get punishment, and you will get

00:38:09lied about, and you will get slandered, and you will, you know, bad people will dislike you.

00:38:14Well, yes, of course.

00:38:16I mean, you wouldn't, I don't want to use too many cancer analogies given what happened to Scott.

00:38:21But I will say that if you're designing an antibiotic, you want it to kill the bacteria, right?

00:38:27You don't want to be an antibiotic researcher saying, well, I don't want to upset the bacteria.

00:38:31It's like, well, that is kind of your job.

00:38:34And if you're promoting virtue in the world, people will go after you.

00:38:38It will be a negative.

00:38:38And you can just say, oh, that's just a pure negative without saying, look, that's just a shadow cast by

00:38:44the positive.

00:38:45And trying in life to say, I only want the positives and not the negatives is not reasonable.

00:38:51It's not rational.

00:38:52It's like saying there are only negatives or there are only positives.

00:38:55Every positive comes with its shadow.

00:38:57Every negative comes with its opportunity.

00:38:59When I was deplatformed, well, I would say I broke the trail.

00:39:04I mean, there was one or two people before me, but I like to think I was in there as

00:39:07an icebreaker nice and early.

00:39:08And I was like, okay, this could either be a massive catastrophe or a negative.

00:39:11My life work is destroyed and my income and the audience and blah, blah, blah.

00:39:16I'm like, well, I am now liberated to pursue longer term truths rather than just doing the immediate, you know,

00:39:22revolving door come and go of politics.

00:39:24I can really work.

00:39:25So I wrote books, foundational philosophy.

00:39:28I wrote novels that will demonstrate the purpose and power of philosophy in a more entertaining fashion.

00:39:33And so you can look at it as negatives or you can just judo that into a positive.

00:39:39If something bad happens to you and you can't think of any positives, you're not thinking hard enough.

00:39:45You've got to flip it on its head and say, what are the great things that have come out of

00:39:52this?

00:39:52Because except for death, there's always an upside.

00:39:55And even in death, as you could point to Socrates and Jesus and other people who gained great fame over

00:40:01passing their expiration date, there are even positives in death.

00:40:05Just not for you, but for the truth and for virtue and so on.

00:40:08So if you say, well, the punishment is bad, what you're doing is you're saying that the loss is bad,

00:40:16the hostility is bad, the negativity is bad, but realize that that is the inevitable consequences of all the good

00:40:23in your life that allow you to love and be loved and do good in the world.

00:40:26And you choose the plus, you choose the minus.

00:40:30If you choose to exercise, you're not playing piano at the same time.

00:40:33Choose to play piano, you're not exercising at the same time.

00:40:35You're getting better at exercise, you're getting worse at piano.

00:40:38Everything in life is these kinds of trade-offs.

00:40:40And if you just isolate and focus on the negatives, you will end up paralyzed because the negatives are always

00:40:45part and parcel of the positives.

00:40:47Yeah, and I would also throw in on the Daniel Penny situation.

00:40:50Yes, what happened to him is bad legally, but he was then recognized as a hero by Trump and Vance,

00:40:59and then he was hired by Andreessen Horowitz.

00:41:01So now he's working in a venture capital firm.

00:41:03I'm guessing he's much better off today than before any of this happened.

00:41:06So it's all a matter of perspective.

00:41:11Marcella, I want you to jump in.

00:41:13I know you had questions.

00:41:14This actually happened yesterday.

00:41:16I don't know if you saw that, Stefan.

00:41:18It happened in the Old Dominion University where there was, say, someone that came in and shot, I think, killed

00:41:26the ROTC professor.

00:41:30He was part of the army.

00:41:32It was Mohamed Jollou.

00:41:35I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing it right, but he was killed with the bare hands of a person there.

00:41:42I don't know if they've named them.

00:41:45But basically, he came in with a gun, shot at them, and the ROTC members defended themselves.

00:41:53They haven't explained in what they used to kill this person.

00:41:58We believe it's a knife.

00:42:00Yeah, I think he stabbed him.

00:42:01Yeah, stabbed him 22 times.

00:42:03So the press asked if there were going to be any charges.

00:42:08This is Virginia we're talking about.

00:42:10So Virginia is pretty blue.

00:42:13They have not said that the person that killed the terrorists is going to be charged.

00:42:20It also happened in France as well in a train, and the French did not charge the Americans that ended

00:42:27up and made them heroes.

00:42:28So I don't know if you have anything to say on that.

00:42:31And I do have a question on something else.

00:42:35Well, self-defense is absolutely justified morally, and it really depends on where you are.

00:42:41You know, in California or other blue states, it's tough.

00:42:45I remember seeing a press conference from a sheriff in Florida.

00:42:49Some guy had shot at the police, and they emptied like 60 bullets into the guy.

00:42:55And then the reporter was like, well, 60 bullets?

00:42:59That's crazy.

00:43:00Why so many?

00:43:01He's like, well, we would have done more, but we ran out of bullets.

00:43:04And so there are places where the principle of self-defense is honored, the sort of stand-your-ground stuff,

00:43:12where there's no duty to retreat and so on.

00:43:16And that has to do with the question of rehabilitation.

00:43:21And this may be a bit of a male-female divide.

00:43:24I've sort of noticed it.

00:43:24I don't know if it's true or not.

00:43:25But when men look at a criminal who's done great evil, we generally tend to say, beyond repair, beyond reform,

00:43:34all we can do is segregate that person from society because reformation or rehabilitation is largely impossible.

00:43:41And women, I think a little bit more, look at a criminal, and it's a perfectly valid position.

00:43:47And they look back and they say, well, you know, he was raised in a foster home.

00:43:51His parents were drug addicts.

00:43:53You know, he never had a chance.

00:43:54And all of that, I'm sure, is true.

00:43:56Not everyone who's abused becomes a criminal, but almost everyone who's a criminal was horribly abused as a child.

00:44:02And that level of sympathy is perfectly understandable and is an important counterbalance, right?

00:44:09And men and women tend to balance each other really well, which is why we became sort of the top

00:44:12species on the planet,

00:44:13because we're a great team.

00:44:15And when men tend to rule the justice system, it tends to be very Old Testament and very punitive,

00:44:22sometimes to an excessive degree.

00:44:25When women or leftists are generally in charge of the criminal system,

00:44:29it tends to be a little bit over-conciliatory, over-sympathetic, and over one more chance.

00:44:35And, you know, women, of course, evolved to deal with babies and toddlers and children

00:44:39because the men were out hunting and, you know, half the children died,

00:44:42so women had to pretty much devote themselves to raising the next generation.

00:44:45And I've been a stay-at-home dad myself, and you can't condemn your children, right?

00:44:49You can't just say, well, they're beyond rehabilitation because they're still moldable,

00:44:53they're still able to change and to grow and to progress,

00:44:57and you can't condemn people until they become, you know, really committed evil adults.

00:45:02And I think that that impulse to reshape personality, to give one more chance,

00:45:07to look for the best, is a beautiful thing when you're dealing with children and toddlers.

00:45:12You know, adult super predators may not be quite the right thing.

00:45:16So, again, that's sort of, it's not specifically male-female, I would say.

00:45:20There are these general trends, but there's tons of exceptions.

00:45:24And, again, the combination of sympathy and justice, sympathy and harshness,

00:45:29understanding where people are coming from,

00:45:31also having a pretty good certainty of where they're going to go,

00:45:34which is to worse and worse places, is a good combo.

00:45:36And if you're in a place where it's mostly sympathy,

00:45:40then self-defense is very tough to maintain and defend against,

00:45:45although philosophically it's perfectly justified.

00:45:49Marcel?

00:45:50Yeah, I would just bring in Scott's point of views on those issues,

00:45:53that, number one, he did say self-defense is kind of like, you know, absolute.

00:45:58But he also would, he had that sort of duality, I think, in what he said about crime,

00:46:04that he said, you know, he doesn't believe in free will,

00:46:06which means a criminal didn't have a choice.

00:46:09They basically were put on that path.

00:46:12But at the same time, he said, we still need to punish them.

00:46:15We still need to lock them up, because that's the only way the system will work.

00:46:18Well, interestingly enough, this proves your point, Stefan,

00:46:24because the guy that the terrorist yesterday was actually supposed to be in prison for 11 years.

00:46:30He helped ISIS convicted for 11 years.

00:46:34He only served, I think, five years.

00:46:37And then he went out, and the first, he was on probation.

00:46:41The first thing he did was shoot and kill, I think, two people.

00:46:47So it shows, I mean, I wanted to get your perspective on something else,

00:46:54but it reminds me, I lived in Europe, and in Europe, they see it very differently.

00:47:00When, in Norway, you can, you're serving prison for murder,

00:47:05but you can, basically, you're in the prison.

00:47:09It looks like an apartment, and, well, like a room, very nice room,

00:47:14and then you're able to work outside of that prison, come back every day.

00:47:19I think the same is in Denmark.

00:47:22And so it's a very different, over there, they don't believe in capital punishment,

00:47:27and they believe in getting, you know, helping someone change their views,

00:47:37and that they can be rehabilitated, and all that.

00:47:42So, but going to a different point, I saw your post on Charlie Kirk yesterday,

00:47:48and I think somebody had a question on it regarding,

00:47:51and I don't know if you want to talk about that, if that's true.

00:47:54It's your show.

00:47:55So, I am an open book.

00:47:56Whatever works for you is fine with me.

00:48:00So, you posted something about Erica Kirk and Charlie.

00:48:06Stefan, can you just hit mute for the echo?

00:48:08Thanks.

00:48:08Sorry.

00:48:09Sorry, we're having, like, an echo thing.

00:48:13So, you posted, and I don't know if you wanted to clarify what you meant, or...

00:48:20Oh, sure.

00:48:21Yeah.

00:48:22So, I mean, the murder of Charlie Kirk was, of course, appalling to anybody with half a heart and mind.

00:48:30I didn't know him super well.

00:48:32I'd worked with him once at a conference, and we sort of knew of each other,

00:48:36and I sat on a panel with him, and he was an amazing man.

00:48:42I mean, his command of facts and memory, it seemed that it was almost nothing that he hadn't read,

00:48:46and also had a steel-trap mind.

00:48:48I'm good with principles.

00:48:50I'm like B.B. King.

00:48:51You know, if you've ever seen him in the U2 documentary, B.B. King is like,

00:48:53I don't do chords.

00:48:55I'm good with solos.

00:48:56I'm not good with chords.

00:48:58And I'm good with principles, but facts kind of come and go,

00:49:01like birds flying through a barn with me.

00:49:04And his grasp in facts was just absolutely unparalleled,

00:49:07and it was a truly stupendous mind that was shot down on that terrible day last fall.

00:49:14Now, with regards to Erica Kirk, I, of course, I can't imagine the horror and the suffering with the children,

00:49:22and also seeing it recorded and repeated endlessly.

00:49:27I watched it once because I think it was somebody,

00:49:30I think it might have been Tim Poole who was saying that he's, you know,

00:49:33he's in stable but dangerous condition or something like that.

00:49:36And I saw the shot, and I was like, I'm certainly no doctor, obviously,

00:49:41but I was like, that's not a stable condition situation.

00:49:44He's gone.

00:49:46Now, Erica Kirk, the issue that I had in particular with Erica Kirk,

00:49:52and again, I very much hesitate to criticize a widow,

00:49:57but, you know, as Plato said, you know, we care about people,

00:50:01but we have to care about the truth even more.

00:50:03There was a lot of outrage and energy that was generated,

00:50:06and a lot of exposure of the leftist sort of slavering, bloodthirsty, lustrous violence

00:50:11that characterized a lot of people's responses to Charlie Kirk.

00:50:15And I very much, very, very strongly disagreed with what I felt

00:50:21and would argue was very performative in terms of saying,

00:50:24as she did a couple of days after the father of her children

00:50:29and the love of her life was gunned down,

00:50:32that she forgives the murderer.

00:50:35And she got applause, and that was very performative,

00:50:37and I believe, I genuinely believe,

00:50:39that took a lot of the energy and outrage out of the response.

00:50:43And theologically, much though I sympathize with her suffering,

00:50:48theologically, she's totally wrong.

00:50:50There is no instance in the Bible, there is no instance in Christianity

00:50:54where forgiveness is granted without genuine contrition.

00:51:00You do not have the right to forgive people who don't apologize,

00:51:05who don't have that genuine repentance,

00:51:08who don't have a come to virtue or come to Jesus or come to virtue.

00:51:12Oh, come to morality kind of moment.

00:51:14And so that performative apology really sucked the energy

00:51:18right out of the outrage, and I thought it was kind of selfish.

00:51:22It's that she wanted to be perceived as a good Christian.

00:51:24I can't read her mind, obviously.

00:51:25It's just my particular opinion.

00:51:27And I think it took a lot of energy out of the movement.

00:51:30And if you've seen the videos of her talking with people,

00:51:34and we can say, well, it's shock and this, that, and the other,

00:51:36but she seems to be fairly positive about marketing opportunities and so on.

00:51:40And I say, again, all of this with great sympathy towards her,

00:51:44but it is the kind of behavior, you know, I don't want anyone to,

00:51:50if I happen to get killed by someone, I'm just putting this forward as, of course,

00:51:54as a tiny, tiny possibility, please don't forgive them

00:51:58if they've never repented within a couple of days afterwards.

00:52:01That seems to me almost incomprehensible.

00:52:05And I think it did great harm to the outrage that was necessary to fight back

00:52:10against this level of violence that we see coming out of the left.

00:52:15But of course, if you forgive when the other person hasn't repented,

00:52:20that is saying that you know better than God.

00:52:23God does not forgive people.

00:52:24In the Christian theology, God does not forgive people without repentance.

00:52:28And so to will that is performative.

00:52:31And I thought was, again, we can say it was shock and so on.

00:52:34I'm simply talking, I can't read her mind,

00:52:36but I can certainly look at the effects that it had.

00:52:38And the energy and the outrage kind of went out of the shock

00:52:43and horror of Charlie's assassination.

00:52:47And I think that her behavior since, I got to tell you,

00:52:52like, I mean, I can't imagine being in that situation.

00:52:56I can imagine it.

00:52:57I think we can all imagine it.

00:52:58But honestly, fireworks and glitter pants and things like that,

00:53:02it just doesn't seem right to me.

00:53:05And I'm not trying to police other people's grieving,

00:53:07but it's a little hard to follow as a whole.

00:53:12And that is a challenge because as a Christian,

00:53:16he would have, I assume, prayed to God for guidance and so on.

00:53:20And I don't know that he got the right answer

00:53:25before he got married and so on.

00:53:27So it is troubling.

00:53:31And it is, I think, part of this excessive empathy,

00:53:35this pathological sympathy stuff that, honestly,

00:53:40if somebody gunned down somebody that I truly loved,

00:53:46I would be quite the opposite of forgiveness pretty much

00:53:50for the rest of my life.

00:53:51And I think we needed some of that energy in the West.

00:53:55I just was, I wanted to add, Stefan,

00:53:58my father was assassinated.

00:53:59He was a politician in El Salvador.

00:54:02So I know I'm not Erica, you know,

00:54:06but I did lose my significant other as well.

00:54:08And I have to say that when we mourn,

00:54:14we mourn differently.

00:54:15Everybody mourns differently.

00:54:17For example, for the killers of my father,

00:54:21I, for a long time, I held a lot of rage,

00:54:25but I forgave them, you know?

00:54:27So part of the reason she might have forgiven them

00:54:31is selfish, like you said.

00:54:33And it's part of being able to move forward as a person.

00:54:38So that's my only take is what I know

00:54:41from my own experience.

00:54:44But that's, sorry.

00:54:46No, that's a great point.

00:54:48And I certainly understand the argument that people make

00:54:51that forgiveness is not for the other person,

00:54:54but it's for you to be able to move on and so on,

00:54:56but not two or three days afterwards.

00:54:58And also the other thing too,

00:55:00is that that would be a private act,

00:55:02not a to the world on stage

00:55:05with the eyes of everyone upon you.

00:55:09Because if you publicly say,

00:55:13I forgive the man who murdered the father of my children

00:55:16a couple of days ago

00:55:17with no repentance on that person's part,

00:55:20then you're saying that that's Christian and that's good.

00:55:23And if you say that's Christian, then that's good.

00:55:25Then the people who want to throw him in jail

00:55:28or give him the death penalty

00:55:30are somehow being not good Christians.

00:55:32In other words, if every Christian,

00:55:35and I don't mean to pick on Christians,

00:55:37there's lots of religions that have this forgiveness stuff,

00:55:39but if every Christian were to forgive the murderer,

00:55:41they'd just let him go.

00:55:43Because he's forgiven.

00:55:44Just let him go.

00:55:46So her forgiveness is something that is only possible

00:55:49because other people specifically don't forgive.

00:55:52And as a philosopher myself,

00:55:54and a moral philosopher,

00:55:55I look for these kinds of contradictions.

00:55:57So if one person's forgiveness of a murderer

00:56:01is only able to be performed

00:56:04because other people, usually men,

00:56:06specifically don't forgive that person

00:56:08and lock him up and give him the death penalty

00:56:11if that's what happens legally

00:56:13and end up taking his life,

00:56:16in other words,

00:56:17she can forgive because other people refuse to forgive.

00:56:20So is it good or bad to forgive?

00:56:21Well, if everyone forgives,

00:56:23we let all the criminals out

00:56:24and society collapses.

00:56:26If society can only be sustained,

00:56:29again, according to Scott's,

00:56:30I disagree with him on free will.

00:56:32Well, forgiveness doesn't mean you forget.

00:56:35Forgiveness doesn't,

00:56:36I mean, I can't mind read Erica,

00:56:38but it does not mean that he cannot face capital punishment.

00:56:42She doesn't,

00:56:43whether she wants that or not,

00:56:45he will be facing that.

00:56:47So for the Christians,

00:56:49it may be that they forgive for their own selves,

00:56:52but they won't forget

00:56:53and they'll keep attacking.

00:56:57I hate what you're saying,

00:56:58but to me that makes the concept of forgiveness

00:57:02a little hard to understand

00:57:04because it's being used in two ways.

00:57:06So if someone does something to me

00:57:10that's negative

00:57:11and they apologize,

00:57:13they make restitution,

00:57:15and I say,

00:57:15I forgive you,

00:57:18then I'm saying,

00:57:19I'm not going to punish you.

00:57:21That's what forgiveness means to me.

00:57:22Like we're square,

00:57:23it's over,

00:57:23it's done.

00:57:24Some guy dings my car

00:57:25and he pays to get it fixed.

00:57:27And I'm like,

00:57:27okay,

00:57:27it's water under the bridge,

00:57:28move on,

00:57:29right?

00:57:29Then I don't get to,

00:57:30I'm going to press charges too,

00:57:32right?

00:57:33So to me,

00:57:33forgiveness is,

00:57:34it's even,

00:57:35it's okay.

00:57:36Restitution has been achieved.

00:57:38Things are fine.

00:57:39And if we're going to say forgiveness

00:57:41also means inflicting the death penalty on someone

00:57:45and we use the same word to when,

00:57:49you know,

00:57:50some restaurant brings the food cold.

00:57:52Oh,

00:57:52it's fine.

00:57:53Don't worry about it.

00:57:53It's no problem,

00:57:54right?

00:57:55As opposed to,

00:57:56yes,

00:57:57it's so bad that we're going to have to take your life

00:57:59for what you did.

00:58:00Then to me,

00:58:00the word becomes kind of,

00:58:02you can't use the word to mean both we're even

00:58:05and it's fine.

00:58:06And I'm going to inflict the death penalty on you.

00:58:09Yeah.

00:58:10And I was going to just add that it seems to me like

00:58:12it's just the wrong word that I think it is used in two ways.

00:58:16I think the,

00:58:17you know,

00:58:17some people think of forgiveness as just,

00:58:19I'm no longer going to hate this person,

00:58:21or I'm not going to hold on to that hatred or that revenge

00:58:24or that feeling that is really within the person doing the forgiving.

00:58:29And it is more of a,

00:58:31I don't know if I'd call it selfish,

00:58:32but it's a,

00:58:33it's a,

00:58:33you know,

00:58:34self-centered act.

00:58:35And I think it is a very different concept to me.

00:58:38Then saying we're square,

00:58:40no punishment,

00:58:42you know,

00:58:42everything's fine.

00:58:43We're back to even because that's clearly not the case.

00:58:46And I would guess if you asked Erica,

00:58:48should this person go to jail?

00:58:50She would say,

00:58:50yes,

00:58:50I don't know how she feels about the death penalty,

00:58:52but she would probably say,

00:58:54yes,

00:58:54that person should be locked up and should be punished for what they did.

00:58:58And,

00:58:59and again,

00:58:59that,

00:59:00you know,

00:59:00it's all about how you define forgiveness,

00:59:02I suppose,

00:59:03but it almost seems like we need a different word for what Erica was,

00:59:07I think saying,

00:59:08which was,

00:59:09I'm going to no longer hate this person.

00:59:11Thank you for bringing up Erica.

00:59:14Cause this Erica is on a timeline.

00:59:17Um,

00:59:18so listen,

00:59:19these are opinions,

00:59:20right?

00:59:21I,

00:59:21um,

00:59:22and I think the chat was pretty agreeable in both directions to everybody

00:59:27here.

00:59:27Marcella,

00:59:28you are a powerhouse dynamic woman who has just been through so much and I'm

00:59:35going to cry and prevails and,

00:59:37you know,

00:59:38you're a superhero.

00:59:39So we love you so much.

00:59:41And thank you for sharing that personal side of you with us.

00:59:45Um,

00:59:47Stefan,

00:59:48amazing.

00:59:48You gave us so much to think about.

00:59:50I saw a lot of people once again saying they're going to have to watch this a few

00:59:54times because there was a lot of good information here.

00:59:57And I'm also glad that you brought up on your own that the next time you're on,

01:00:01we can talk about something because you know,

01:00:03I'm going to ask you to come back over and over and over again.

01:00:06Um,

01:00:07so I would like to thank you again.

01:00:09And Stefan,

01:00:10any closing remarks before we have our final sip?

01:00:13Well,

01:00:14first of all,

01:00:14Marcella,

01:00:14I just wanted to express my absolutely deep and heartfelt condolences,

01:00:19you know,

01:00:19virtual hug across the planet,

01:00:21digital sympathies flowing your way.

01:00:23That is brutal.

01:00:24And,

01:00:24and to your point to,

01:00:25to reinforce your point,

01:00:27if people have done us evil at some,

01:00:29we can't just stare at that and be in,

01:00:32in horror and,

01:00:33and rage and,

01:00:33and frustration and tension.

01:00:35Cause that then again,

01:00:36as I said at the beginning,

01:00:37we don't surrender more than we have to.

01:00:38So if some people have done us great harm at some point,

01:00:40we do have to move on and we do have to kind of let that go because we can't just

01:00:45circle the drain

01:00:46of people who've injured us just as we,

01:01:02you know,

01:01:03that there is a process of grieving that we can't just leap over.

01:01:07Like there's a post that you get a wound,

01:01:09right?

01:01:09You get a stab,

01:01:10it takes a while to heal.

01:01:11You get surgery.

01:01:12It takes a while to heal.

01:01:12You can't just go play squash two days after your surgery.

01:01:16So I completely agree with you that,

01:01:18that we do need to find ways to move on from the evils that have been done to us.

01:01:24So I'm not saying that,

01:01:25you know,

01:01:25we,

01:01:26we hold that grudge forever and we simply focus on the negatives forever.

01:01:29So I'm with you there a hundred percent.

01:01:30And I just,

01:01:31again,

01:01:31really want to sympathize with the wrongs and the evils that you have suffered.

01:01:36And the fact that you have obviously moved on with grace and positivity is a magnificently

01:01:41inspiring achievement.

01:01:42And I just wanted to say that.

01:01:44Yeah.

01:01:44My website,

01:01:45freedomain.com,

01:01:45blah,

01:01:46blah.

01:01:46But yeah,

01:01:47we,

01:01:47are we closing to our,

01:01:48our end zip?

01:01:50The end time sipping is occurring.

01:01:52Yes,

01:01:53we are.

01:01:53So you guys grab your mugs.

01:01:55Enjoy this little echo.

01:01:57It's our special little gift to you.

01:02:00A closing step to Scott.

01:02:02Thank you again,

01:02:03just the fun.

01:02:04I love you,

01:02:05Owen and Marcella and everybody in the chat.

01:02:07You're all amazing.

01:02:09Have an amazing weekend.

01:02:10Marcella,

01:02:11you're doing the space tomorrow.

01:02:15Owen has a day off.

01:02:16Same time,

01:02:17same place.

01:02:18All right,

01:02:19you guys love you.

01:02:20Thank you so much.

01:02:21To Scott.

01:02:22To Scott.

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