- 4 hours ago
D'Alesio also supported national ATF cases involving the Outlaws, Mongols, and Warlocks. From 2004 to 2005, operating undercover as "Junkyard," D'Alesio led one of ATF’s largest regional sting operations involving the Hells Angels and the Aryan Brotherhood.
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TechTranscript
00:00My name is Frank Delisio.
00:01I served 25 years with the ATF,
00:03infiltrating Outlaw Motorcycle Clubs
00:05and running some of the agency's toughest
00:07undercover operations.
00:09And this is how crime works.
00:13The Hells Angels have no idea how
00:15close they came
00:17to getting in an all-out war they weren't
00:20ready for because the Aryan Brotherhood
00:21were building it. They were going, when are we going to
00:23start killing these guys? When are we going to start
00:25taking over the territory? They're ready to go.
00:33So when I first got hired on by ATF,
00:35I was 24 years old.
00:37I report to Columbus, Ohio.
00:39At that time, ATF was very heavily steeped
00:42in doing undercover work.
00:43I rode motorcycles and
00:45minibikes and dirt bikes
00:47my whole life, right?
00:48I had an informant who had been in this club,
00:50The Brothers. My informant was the president
00:53at this time. So he kind of
00:54educated me on what this smaller club,
00:58The Brothers, was all about
00:59and who it was.
00:59Who was in charge and the hierarchy of it.
01:02It's no different than if you look at
01:04any other criminal organization.
01:05We started at one point just being
01:07on the outside to actually becoming
01:09members. I mean, our acceptance was
01:11based on our personalities.
01:13We were in there to try to get
01:16in as close to as many clubs as
01:17possible to the, you know, outsiders,
01:20phantoms, Vietnam vets.
01:22There were all kinds of clubs that we got
01:24into because
01:26we had that patch and because we
01:28had longevity with some of the members
01:30who were vouching for us as members.
01:32Which gives you a lot of instant
01:34credibility amongst other
01:36patches and especially in the criminal
01:38world. And that case ran about three and a half
01:40years. I mean, everybody always talks
01:42about how the outlaw motorcycle clubs are
01:44structured after the original
01:47mafia, you know, where you have bosses,
01:49you have under bosses, and then you have soldiers.
01:51It's just like that. There's elections.
01:53It's all political power play.
01:55Who's the shot caller, right?
01:56Who's going to be making the calls?
01:58You follow. You follow like sheep.
02:01The brothers, at that time I was
02:03the warlord or sergeant at arms.
02:04Sergeant at arms is there to
02:07keep peace within the club.
02:08They handle business within the club in times
02:10of war. There were a couple times
02:12where members would get out of line
02:14that you'd have to whack them. I mean,
02:16you'd have to give them a little...
02:18I never punched anybody, but
02:20slapping people is a good
02:22attention getter. Now, I will tell
02:24you that when you do these kind of
02:26undercover things, it happens where
02:28there is violence, where there are
02:30fights, you know, things happen.
02:32And people take notice
02:34of you and how you handle
02:36yourself and do they really want to,
02:38you know, go at you. I'm not
02:40saying I'm the toughest guy in the world.
02:41I got as good as I gave, but
02:43however I survived it, you know what I mean?
02:46The brothers, they were
02:48always at war with the outlaws
02:49where there had been shootings and killings,
02:52right? You'll see in these clubhouses
02:53that it's juvenile. I mean, we
02:55used to have to patch our clubhouse because
02:58you know, at the witching hour, which is
02:59never good, between 2 and 3 a.m.,
03:01we'd have members that would just pull out guns and
03:03just fire them in the clubhouse
03:05through the walls. Who knew where the bullets went?
03:07And the next day, you got
03:09probates of prospects outside patching
03:12the holes because the sunlight's coming through.
03:14I mean, ridiculous. Crap.
03:21So, when my case concluded
03:24in Ohio, I was
03:26told I had to move because there were some threats.
03:28I don't really think they were amounted
03:30to much, but you know, ATF being
03:31ATF, they offered me four cities. Well,
03:33during the brothers' case, we had
03:36made a trek out to Las Vegas and
03:37bought a couple pounds of meth out there.
03:39I like Vegas. My wife, she's a gamer.
03:42I said, what do you think about going to Vegas?
03:43She goes, well, that sounds good.
03:45So, I had just finished
03:47my other investigation and only been out
03:49six months after three and a half years.
03:51So, I go out there. I move my informants
03:54out there. We get a house.
03:55We got everything set up. Las Vegas
03:57Metropolitan Police, we were working with Metro.
04:00Jack Roberts, big Irishman.
04:02He grew up in the days of the mob out there.
04:04He's a fantastic guy. He goes, I'm
04:06guaranteeing you, he goes, if you go to
04:08Sharky, who was a member, if you go to his
04:10tattoo shop, inevitably he will walk out
04:12and recruit you because of the way you guys
04:13look and the way you are. So, we drive down
04:16there and I told my informant,
04:18Tony, I said,
04:19I'm not getting a tattoo. You're
04:22getting a tattoo. And he didn't care.
04:24He's an old school biker.
04:26So, we go in there and he sits
04:28down and he's getting probably
04:30one of the worst tattoos
04:31I've ever seen in my life, but he's
04:33you know, he's a champ. He's getting it.
04:36Sharky walks out from the back
04:38and he just starts asking us questions.
04:40You know, like where we're from and we're
04:41telling them our story. So, he goes
04:44to the back and he comes out with his
04:46Vago colors and he goes,
04:47do you guys know what these are? And of
04:49course, we knew what they were, but of course, we weren't
04:51going to give them that. We're going to go,
04:53no, what's that? He goes,
04:55the Vagos. He goes,
04:57well, we own Vegas.
04:59They used to have a big green
05:01pin on the back of their vest and that's
05:03what it meant. He goes,
05:05what are you guys thinking about
05:07maybe coming around? Come to
05:09this house on Tuesday. Sharky
05:11brings us into the house and there's
05:13like 10 of them in there. And I was like, alright,
05:15you guys, you guys can hang around. Which
05:17means,
05:19okay, start coming to the meetings, you go
05:21stand with Prospect out there and watch
05:23the bikes and you start showing you're
05:25worthy to be around us. Great Vagos.
05:27Yeah, I mean, our game was always
05:29drugs, you know, because we had already been
05:31buying drugs off of some of the members and we
05:33were moving guns back, whatever we can get
05:34our hands on. You know, we were commodity brokers
05:37of whatever it could be. You know,
05:39that we had ties back in the Midwest
05:41with some criminal organizations,
05:43stuff like that. So, I remember
05:45one time we were over in
05:47L.A. and they decided that they
05:49were going to go hunt Mongols
05:51in the hills. They
05:53start going bar to bar to bar looking
05:55for them and if they catch them, they're
05:56gonna hopefully just beat them up or
05:58but it's ended up in shootings, stabbings
06:01and all that other kind of stuff. We also had
06:03an incident.
06:05We go back to the one member's house
06:07and they're like, okay, we gotta go collect some
06:09money. They go, and you guys are gonna
06:11come with us. And we drive to this
06:13trailer park. They
06:15rip the door off the, and there's
06:17other trailers around. They rip the door
06:19off. And we go
06:21in there. They grab the guy
06:23and they just start beating
06:25the sh** out of him. Then it's
06:27like, are there any
06:29kids in here? And they're like, yeah,
06:31there's three in the back bedroom. And I'm looking at Tony
06:33going, oh, man. And I look
06:35at him and I go, I don't give a sh** what happens.
06:37Nobody touches those kids. So,
06:39we go in the back and there's like a three, a four
06:41year old, and maybe a seven year old.
06:44And, and I'm
06:45telling Tony, I said, no matter what, I go, you
06:47put yourself between these kids. I go, I'm gonna put
06:49myself between you and the kids. I have
06:51a gun. They're loading motorcycle parts.
06:53They're taking his dope, his money.
06:54This went on for about an hour and a half.
06:57This dude's screaming, they're screaming, yelling.
06:59You'd have thought somebody
07:01would call the police. Nobody ever
07:03called anybody. We get back
07:05in the car. I mean, obviously
07:07it's great evidence of a home
07:09invasion, kidnapping and everything. That was
07:11one of the major charges that we ended up
07:13convicting those members on. But
07:15it was stuff like that that was like, what
07:17do you do? I go, what do you do at three
07:18o'clock in the morning? Am I supposed to call my boss and say,
07:21listen, we're going on a home invasion.
07:22I have your authority. A lot of times
07:24before these cases, you get the left
07:27and the right rail. You have meetings with the
07:28U.S. attorneys, with the prosecutor's office
07:30and you talk about stuff that could possibly
07:32happen. With their understanding that it
07:34probably will happen. Just report
07:37it the next day and we'll deal with it.
07:39Obviously, if somebody gets killed,
07:41different. But crimes of violence,
07:43acts of violence, they understand are going to happen.
07:45So the next day I went in
07:47and I reported it. And then, you know,
07:49they start doing a separate investigation
07:51on that. Unfortunately,
07:53there are a lot of military
07:56active
07:57and veterans that are
07:59affiliated with a lot of these
08:01bigger clubs. And, you know,
08:03they're retired or inactive guys.
08:05I mean, it's another brotherhood for them.
08:07It's excitement. And then unfortunately,
08:09some of them end up getting caught up in the criminal activity
08:11and they end up losing everything.
08:18So, we were in probably, I don't know,
08:21a year and a half into the Vagos case.
08:23What happened was, we were all supposed
08:25to get our patch at the same time.
08:27Meaning, myself, my informant,
08:30and Kaz. My buddy Kaz.
08:32Derek Kozlowski,
08:33he's another ATF agent
08:35who is working the Hollywood chapter.
08:37So, he ends up getting his patch.
08:39We were supposed to get our patch
08:41the following week, Tony and I.
08:43Our full patches.
08:44Well, let me preface.
08:46Early on, Kaz, his informant
08:49who was bringing it in, gets T-boned
08:51and killed on a motorcycle.
08:53Kaz had given him a business card
08:56that he had in his wallet
08:57and stuff like that. But it was
08:59a business card from when he worked in Milwaukee
09:01before he transferred to L.A.
09:03Well, this all comes back around to play
09:05because the informant's dead,
09:08nobody's doing anything.
09:09In hindsight, Kaz knows he should not have used
09:11the name Kaz in the investigation.
09:13The Vagos, well, they start checking around
09:15and it's Derek Kozlowski,
09:18okay, Kaz.
09:19ATF, Long Beach.
09:21So, he was out doing something
09:23and he comes back to his house
09:25and they're at his house.
09:26So, they go inside and they start questioning
09:28about where he'd been, what he'd been doing.
09:31And he's lying to him straight out.
09:33So, they take his patch
09:36and they leave.
09:37He calls me and tells me what happened.
09:40So, now it's like, oh, s***, okay.
09:42Well, in the meantime, I hang up with him.
09:45I get another phone call from the president
09:46for the Vagos.
09:47And he starts off the conversation with,
09:50we have a problem.
09:51Your buddy, Kaz, he's an ATF agent.
09:53I go, get out of here.
09:55I've known that guy.
09:56He goes, no.
09:56I go, what are you going to do?
09:57He goes, we're going to kill him.
09:58He goes, and we think he followed you out here
10:01to work you.
10:02And when he saw you doing this,
10:04he got involved with the Vagos too.
10:06Didn't just try to work at all.
10:07I go, and I'm like, you know,
10:09I'm acting all distraught and whatnot.
10:12And so, I'm going, man.
10:14I go, that's kind of harsh, man.
10:15I go, why don't you just, let's see.
10:17He goes, well, one of the reasons I'm calling you
10:19is to see how much damage does he have on you.
10:21And at that point, the light bulb goes off.
10:23Because in my mind, we're still good.
10:25We can continue on this case, right?
10:28Because they're looking at him, not looking at us.
10:30Because if they were looking at us,
10:32they would have never called us to tell us about him.
10:33I go, you know what?
10:35This could be problematic for us too.
10:36I go, we may have to go dark for a while, Tony and I.
10:39I said, so, I go, I'll call you back,
10:41let you know what's up.
10:42Hang off the phone.
10:43And of course, I'm sitting here looking at the apartment.
10:45I go, I got to report this.
10:47So, of course, I call ATF.
10:50We had to shut our stuff down right away.
10:52But lucky we had had our case pretty much built up to then,
10:55which allowed us to do what we needed to do
10:56as far as arresting and search warrants and stuff.
10:59And we just got on our bikes and took off,
11:01and we closed our house down, and that day we're out.
11:03Killing an ATF agent, is it a smart move on their part?
11:06Is it going to bring a lot of heat?
11:08Absolutely it is.
11:09But in their mind, they think, you know,
11:11they bring in somebody from the outside, they have them do it,
11:14and it doesn't tie back to them.
11:20So they have an annual motorcycle rally event down in Laughlin,
11:25right, in Nevada.
11:26When they have this, you get tens of thousands of bikers
11:30that, you know, descend on this.
11:32And the two predominant clubs that descend on it,
11:34there used to be a Hell's Angels event.
11:37You know, Vagos go down there, the Mongols show up, right?
11:41And then it just kicks off, man.
11:43And there's some stabbing, and it all gets captured on tape.
11:46You've never seen anything like that where, you know,
11:49you just got this mass chaos in a casino where there's thousands of people,
11:54bullets flying, knives flying, people getting beat up.
11:57You know, finally police descend upon it, they lock it all down.
12:01You don't normally have these type of incidents that happen in a public place.
12:07However, you have the Hellraiser's Ball where the Hell's Angels and the Pagans went at it in a big open
12:13platform.
12:14You've got to show up large.
12:15You've got to show up at an event where people are going to see, make it loud,
12:19meaning make sure everybody sees it.
12:21And they have members that are willing to go to prison for it.
12:24You know, they don't care because they're heroes to the club.
12:28You know, down in North Carolina, outside of Fayetteville, you had that shooting that happened at the gas station.
12:34I mean, it's just, it's getting more, moreover where they're caring less about who sees.
12:39So, part of, you know, these investigations every now and again, you've got to come up with some thinking outside
12:45the box.
12:45So, in Operation Black Biscuit, when Jay Dobbins started his initial trek down the road to the Hell's Angels,
12:53they come up with an idea, let's start a chapter in Arizona.
12:57Solo Angels got along with the Hell's Angels.
12:59So, with their permission, they started a chapter of Solo Angels.
13:03Well, that chapter consisted of an informant and all law enforcement.
13:08And the whole idea was to see how close, how much they can get.
13:14And it's a club that had respect from the Hell's Angels down in Mexico that they were aware of and
13:18they knew.
13:18So, they needed some more members to come in from the outside to show that the club was bigger than
13:22it was and expanded in the United States.
13:25We went down for like two, two and a half weeks.
13:27We brought a bunch of guys in.
13:29Fluffin' Stuff is basically what we were.
13:31So, you know, while we were there, we did some more street theater.
13:34Then I get into a Blue on Blue street theater where I bring them along as either bodyguards or what
13:40have you.
13:40And I say, you guys are my protection.
13:43And then what happens is I'm sitting in a room.
13:46I got a bunch of money.
13:47Or I have a bunch of dope.
13:48They bring in a bunch of money, vice versa.
13:50And we make the transfer.
13:52And they leave.
13:53And then we leave.
13:54And these guys, what did they just say?
13:56They saw a bunch of drugs and a bunch of money come and go.
14:00Kind of like they do.
14:01And in their mind, okay, cops don't do this .
14:06And it is.
14:07It's all theater.
14:08It's all play acting.
14:13I got a call from Tom Doyle with the Eastlake Police Department while I was a supervisor in Youngstown.
14:20Talking about an opportunity with some informants to possibly take a run at the Aryan Brotherhood and the Hells Angels
14:27up in the Cleveland area.
14:28Well, the whole purpose of this investigation was two-pronged.
14:31We were going after the Aryan Brotherhood and we were going after the Hells Angels.
14:34It kind of widened on the gap where we were able to make some inroads into the pagans and the
14:40outlaws.
14:40So if you look at the Aryan Brotherhood, in my experience in dealing with them for over two years, they're
14:46a prison-based club.
14:48So if you're Aryan Brotherhood in prison, it's all white is right, power, white power, you know, everything that goes
14:54along with that.
14:54Outside, our experience has been, we deal with everybody.
14:57The color is green.
14:59We were dealing with Mexican Mafia.
15:01We were dealing with, you know, black gangsters.
15:03As long as there was a profit to be made, it was all about making money.
15:07So, you know, is the racial aspect of it still there?
15:11Yes, but it doesn't sit as prominent because it's all about making the deal, making the money.
15:17The Aryan Brotherhood case was just supposed to be like, hey, we're going to go after this guy, Jim Bloomquist,
15:22who went by AJ for Aryan Jim.
15:24You know, he was manufacturing machine guns.
15:27So our informant said, I can get you close to him.
15:29He'll make you machine guns if you want.
15:31He goes, well, I told him that you had been to prison with my dad and your name is Junkyard.
15:36And I'm like sitting there going, and what else?
15:38And he goes, well, he goes, that you guys used to wrestle bears and bars.
15:42I go, where in God, where are you coming up with this?
15:45Three hours later, we go meet with this guy.
15:47And unfortunately for me, we hit it off.
15:51So we're talking, talking, talking.
15:53And the next thing you know, we start talking about the machine guns.
15:55And he had a construction company called AB Construction.
15:59And what he would do is any guys that were getting out in Northeast Ohio, he would sponsor them for
16:04a job, which they never came to.
16:06So he could put them on the books as if they were working.
16:09About a week later, come back.
16:12He gives us these three machine guns.
16:14He was making Stens.
16:15They were kits that he put together.
16:17They looked like they'd just come off the manufacturer.
16:19I mean, they were all powder coated, beautiful.
16:20I go back and I said, well, let's see if you could make more.
16:24Because we're trying to track down where he's doing it.
16:27And we had a pretty good idea he was doing it in his house or in his warehouse.
16:30Well, I go, well, let's go for a big number.
16:31So I said, 10.
16:32And then the whole thing changed from, you know, making machine guns to motorcycles.
16:40And he asked us if we ride motorcycles.
16:41And it's, yeah.
16:43And he goes, he goes, which means we could start a club.
16:48We want to open up the first official Aryan Brotherhood motorcycle club.
16:52He goes, and we're going to start it here.
16:54He goes, and if it works, the intent is to spread it as quick as possible.
16:59I go, what are we going to call this club?
17:01He goes, order of blood.
17:03Well, when Hitler went to prison and all his officers, when they got out,
17:07he gave them the medal was called blood order.
17:10In our backstopping and everything, all of us had been to prison, different prisons, right?
17:15So we could talk intelligently about what was going on in prison,
17:19which ended up coming up actually and saving our butts in a few occasions.
17:23We had our patches made, but then on the front of the patch,
17:26there was a support your local Aryan Brotherhood with a big swastika.
17:30See, these guys make no sense.
17:32It was just absolutely ridiculous.
17:33I asked AJ, I go, what's our purpose?
17:35He goes, our purpose is we want to take over Cleveland, Northeast Ohio.
17:39Eventually, we want to take out the angels.
17:42We want to run them out.
17:42We want to control everything in Northeast Ohio.
17:45Now, there are clubs that are affiliated with the Aryan Nation.
17:49They're out there.
17:50You know, there are some in California that are affiliated,
17:53but for them to try to launch something on a national level, yes, unheard of.
17:58AJ then says, why don't we go to this bar in Eastlake?
18:02He goes, just as kind of, you bring your guys, I'll bring my guys.
18:05I have no idea who he's bringing because up until this point,
18:08it's just him and the informant.
18:09He shows up with three players.
18:11We go in there.
18:11We're meeting.
18:12We're talking to him.
18:13We leave.
18:14So, and now we're going to go debrief after everybody separates away.
18:17So, Tom Doyle goes, you guys even know who you met with?
18:20We're like, no idea.
18:22I know one guy was named JB, one guy was named Pauly, and the other one was David.
18:28Because we didn't have any background information on any of these guys.
18:32So, they proceeded to tell us about David Snow being he was the man for the Aaron brother for the
18:37state of Ohio.
18:39JB had been down for 25 years for prison.
18:41And AJ had been in jail for robbery and a couple other things.
18:44So, we got criminal, violent drug traffickers, right, already in their past.
18:48For ATF, the more violent, the more criminal you were, the more guns you had, the better target you were
18:55for us.
18:56Well, these guys, you can't get any more violent.
18:58And they're telling us during the meetings, and there's many more like us that we will bring to the club.
19:03So, we launched this investigation full-blown now.
19:07I mean, we've got headquarters support.
19:09We've got our undercover branch support.
19:11We've got everything involved now, building everything.
19:13April 20th is our coming out date because it's Hitler's birthday.
19:18So, this is the day they wanted to launch.
19:20So, we take this group photo.
19:22A couple weeks later is going to be like our coming out party.
19:25So, it was a big deal.
19:26So, we go and set up a tent.
19:29And it has all of our support gear.
19:32You know, supports your order of blood.
19:34And it has the big thunderbolts.
19:36So, for a few of us, they said, you guys can wear the brand.
19:39Which we did.
19:40We see these guys approaching the tent.
19:42And all of a sudden, they start smiling.
19:44Hey, happy your brothers are here.
19:46It's the Ku Klux Klan.
19:47A couple of Nighthawks and other members.
19:49And they're just so happy to see us.
19:51Once we got into the, you know, this whole Aaron Brotherhood Club,
19:54it did open up a lot of opportunities for us.
19:56Because one, we formed bonds with more of the support club
20:00because we would go to all their functions.
20:02Where, you know, you go to events.
20:04Club members are supposed to go up and pay homage in respect to the predominant club.
20:08Well, that started to change where when they would come into events,
20:11they'd come pay homage to us before they would go to the Hells Angels.
20:15And that kind of started a rift.
20:17Cleveland started to dislike us a lot.
20:20As time progressed, the club grew.
20:23So, within the hierarchy of a la motorcycle gangs,
20:27you have what's known as support or puppet clubs.
20:30They only exist because the predominant club in that area allows them to exist.
20:34And what happens is they'll have coalition meetings where these other clubs,
20:38like whoever the predominant club is, will host it at different clubhouses.
20:44And they sit up in the front.
20:45And all the other clubs that show up sit out in the galley.
20:49And they talk about things.
20:50And I can only tell you this because I've been to so many Hells Angels ones.
20:54That's how they extorted all these clubs.
20:55They made them buy tickets to their events and support them that way.
21:00And if they didn't, then they'd pull their patch.
21:03Puppet and feeder clubs, a lot of times if there's big events,
21:06they're the ones that they make stand out and do all the guard duty.
21:10You know, they'll watch the bikes, they'll do security for them.
21:12A lot of the puppet clubs are also used for some of the criminal activity
21:16because everybody's looking at the big club.
21:18So they have members near any support clubs that are actually doing the dirt.
21:25We were traveling multi-states and we got embedded with a bunch from the outlaws.
21:30And as we grew, people took notice.
21:31We had criminals that were operating, especially the young ones.
21:36They would come and knock on the door.
21:38Hey, is anybody interested in buying any drugs or guns?
21:41I mean, we had that whole side piece going.
21:43So all the crooks were figuring, if you're part of the Aryan Brotherhood,
21:47there's no way you're going to be a cop and we can do whatever we want with you.
21:50Which was true.
21:51And we took great advantage of that.
21:53We were bringing in a lot of agents and some females.
21:56The women that we brought in, which they're great.
21:59I mean, you know, they don't get enough accolades.
22:02I had one that was, you know, my baby's mama.
22:06And then the other girls we were saying were mules for us.
22:09They were hauling our contraband.
22:11So our girls became great, great, great gatherers of information for us.
22:17Because the women, they were telling everything about their old man.
22:20With bikers, I mean, you know, now you're talking old school versus new school bikers.
22:24I mean, when I was in, you had a lot of old school mentality.
22:27I mean, you know, the depravity.
22:28If you do certain acts with women, you get a wing.
22:33You know, color, it designates what that is.
22:36From having sex with a dead person to having sex with a cop,
22:41having sex with somebody who has an STD.
22:43I mean, it's just crazy when you're in there.
22:45You walk a fine line.
22:46And, you know, you don't participate.
22:48But it's like, it's just, you know, from watching guys smoking dope with their seven, eight-year-old sons.
22:56Age eight, he had a little kid.
22:58His name was, they did him a favor.
23:01They called, named him Dietrich Adolf.
23:03Just the amount of stuff that you would see like that, you know, it challenged,
23:09it does challenge your sense of morals, you know, in a sense of, you know what's right or wrong.
23:16And you know what your job is.
23:18But you can't do anything about it right now.
23:21That's the problem.
23:22That gets problematic sometimes.
23:24Once we got into the, you know, this whole Arian Brotherhood club,
23:27it did open up a lot of opportunities for us.
23:29Because one, the name, the club, the brand in and of itself is criminal.
23:33Period.
23:34It's not like when we would work some of these other investigations without,
23:38most of the clubs were, okay, I got to have a job.
23:40I got to make myself look real.
23:42I got to do this.
23:42Well, when you're dealing with the Arian Brotherhood, yeah, well, by nature we're criminal.
23:48Did we have shell companies set up, you know, to make us look legit, appear legit?
23:52Yeah.
23:52So we didn't have to show the club or anybody else that we had jobs and we had this.
23:57Didn't have to do that.
24:04How the Arian Brotherhood in Ohio came to be, the founding member David Snow had served time in Arizona.
24:11He brought it back to the state of Ohio.
24:13David Snow, he shot a guy in prison.
24:16David stabbed several people.
24:18This guy should have been in prison for life.
24:20They kept running it concurrent.
24:22So he never got any more time.
24:23David gets out and he starts to be around us and he sees what's going on.
24:28Everybody did stuff for David.
24:30So he had a whole entourage that did stuff for him.
24:34We took care of David.
24:35David ended up becoming one of our biggest allies in the way our case was going
24:39because we started having problems with some of the other AB members just because they wanted power.
24:45Now how it was run, we ran it like a true AB council.
24:48So we'd come together, you know, once a month, six of us,
24:52and we would talk about the club and what we were doing, what was going on and, you know, what
24:58was the way forward.
24:59Well, we had an incident where one of our agents, he put out some information that did not sound right
25:07to them.
25:07So they called him on it and they called me on it to the point we had to have a
25:13meeting.
25:14And so we're having it at the house and so there was like six or seven of us and they
25:22come up with five guys.
25:23And they're all wearing coats and their hands are all in their pocket.
25:27And Paulie, who was the security guy, NJB come in and they're like, they were challenging one of our undercovers
25:33and some stuff that he had said who wasn't there.
25:37I knew Paulie from a prior life when I was doing my brother's case, but he didn't recognize me
25:42because I had that big bushy beard and I was a little heavier then.
25:45So he's sitting there, he stands up and he's like, you know, back in the late nineties, I used to
25:52hang around with a club called the Brothers
25:53and these two ATF guys come in there and they took the whole day and rested it, blah, blah, blah.
25:57He's going on and on and on.
25:59And he's looking around and now I could see our guys are getting antsy and I could, I'm watching the
26:06AB guys
26:06and they're getting antsy because he goes, and you know, that guy and everybody was 100% certain that he
26:14was going to point around
26:14and point to me and go, is him.
26:18And he goes, and he turns around, he goes, and that guy was, and he didn't say that.
26:23You know, I'm seeing everybody's kind of coming out of their seat.
26:25They're going for their guns because this is going to have a bloodbath in our house.
26:29Because if it had started, it would have been, that's what it would have been.
26:32And then he goes on and I stood up because now I am legitimately pissed.
26:37Like I've had it, you know, we've been doing this, I'm sick of everything.
26:41And I sit up and I said, Paulie, shut the F up.
26:44I go, you are a big problem.
26:46I go, you know what?
26:47And I'm looking at JB now.
26:49I go, if he opens his mouth one more time, I'm going to kill him right here.
26:53And JB looks at him and says, Paulie, shut up.
26:55I go, I'm tired of this.
26:57Either we're in it together or we're not.
26:59This comes up one more time.
27:00We're going our separate ways and you guys do your thing and we'll do ours.
27:04You know, you're in this and it's every day, grind, grind, grind.
27:06I'm tired of it.
27:07So David Snow comes out.
27:09He goes, Junkyard, I like your style.
27:11He goes, I'm changing chapters.
27:14He goes, I want to be a part of your chapter, not that one down there.
27:21So we were at an event with the Hells Angels.
27:24AJ decided he was going to go do a burnout in one of the Hells Angels bar on the east
27:30side of Cleveland.
27:31He goes in the motorcycle, does a burnout with burning the rubber off the wheel inside the bar.
27:38Well, they didn't like that too much.
27:40So they're having this event and we knew it was going to be chaos.
27:44So we had about 12 guys with us at the time, both AB and law enforcement.
27:51They were part of our club.
27:54So AJ showed up because the intent was we're going to pull his patch.
27:58He's out because he's causing too much trouble because AJ can't just behave himself.
28:02We show up at this Speedway motor ground.
28:05And as we're riding in, there's Hells Angels posted all over the place.
28:11And it's like, okay, this is interesting.
28:15And this is kind of like our first experience, like going to a coalition meeting as well.
28:20So we pull in and we're sitting there and there's two Hells Angels that are off to the side.
28:34And they're looking at us.
28:36So myself and JB walk over to talk to them.
28:43And they're right away, we're going to kick AJ's ass.
28:46We're going to take his cut.
28:47We're going to do this.
28:47We're going to do that, right?
28:49David stayed back with AJ.
28:51So JB steps up and goes, you guys ain't touching our guy.
28:55He goes, if there's anybody going to hand any punishment down, it's going to be us.
28:58And you're not taking his cut.
29:00That's going to be a problem.
29:01We walk over to David Snow.
29:04He goes, you go back there and tell them that we'll handle our problems.
29:08But if they touch AJ, I'm going to have every Hells Angel in the United States green lit before the
29:16day is over.
29:17And David's serious.
29:18When he talks and he says stuff like that, you've got to believe he's telling you the truth.
29:23Because he's done playing.
29:24He goes, I can do that.
29:26I can make it happen.
29:29We can get to him.
29:30I'm like, well, okay, that's pretty profound.
29:33I go, let's see how this is received.
29:34So we walk back over there and JB, he goes, all right, here's how this is going down.
29:41We're going to take care of the problem.
29:42We're going to take AJ out of our club.
29:44He's no more.
29:46He's going to be blackballed.
29:48No contact.
29:49And they looked at David and they're like, all right, all right.
29:55So then they take us.
29:56Now we're going down to this coalition, right?
29:59Meeting.
29:59At this point it was the Hells Angels and all the little subservient puppet support clubs.
30:06So we bring like seven or eight guys, right?
30:09There's probably eight, ten clubs there.
30:11And, of course, they open up the meeting and it's like, okay, we've got a new club, order of blood.
30:18Then they start piping up, you guys said there weren't going to be any more new clubs, you know, blah,
30:22blah, blah.
30:23And their response was, shut the F up.
30:26They're here.
30:27They're not going anywhere.
30:28Okay?
30:29And that was all we heard of there.
30:31So the meeting goes on for like another, I don't know, 20 minutes.
30:35And they go, okay, it's over.
30:37Well, while this thing is wrapping up, they said, hey, you guys are in the, you know, order of blood.
30:45Can you hang back?
30:46We want to talk to you.
30:47So we're looking over and there's a pickup truck there, an old pickup truck.
30:53And one of their prospects, he's in the truck and there's a shotgun on the seat.
30:58He's kind of like pointing it towards us.
31:00He's putting on these what appear to be black gloves.
31:02And like, now everybody else is left but us and these Hells Angels and they're standing in front of us.
31:08So I'm looking at some of the guys here, man, we got to close ranks fast.
31:11So we closed ranks right up on the Hells Angels.
31:14We figured if he's going to shoot, he's going to hit them, you know, so he ain't going to do
31:18that.
31:20So now we're back to this whole, you know, the burnout, how we're going to resolve this, right?
31:27Their idea is, hey, we want you to go down to the bar and apologize.
31:30Send a couple of your guys down here and apologize to the bar owner.
31:32So the agreement was, okay, all right, we'll send a couple of guys down.
31:36I'm walking up, still talking to JB.
31:39And I go, did you see the shotgun over there?
31:41He goes, yeah, I saw it.
31:42I go, yeah, I talked to the guys real quick.
31:44I said, man, if they'd have blasted, I go, we were going to kill them.
31:47And then we were going to just drop our cuts and go.
31:51JB looks at me and he goes, when were you going to tell me?
31:54I go, what do you mean?
31:55I go, listen, man.
31:56He goes, I'm okay with smoking these dudes.
31:58He goes, but you've got to let us know that this is what's going to be happening.
32:01So we're all on the same page.
32:03I go, so no problem killing them?
32:04He goes, no.
32:05He goes, but we need to know.
32:07I go, right on.
32:08So they had some guys in from Las Vegas and I think Minnesota and some other places.
32:13One of the Hells Angels from Las Vegas walks over and he goes, it's different.
32:20And I go, what do you mean different?
32:22He goes, usually clubs come in here and they kiss our ass.
32:26You guys ain't them.
32:27I go, no, not by a long shot.
32:30He goes, I respect that.
32:38David Snow, now he starts going into the business aspect of AB.
32:42How they're using PO boxes where they're shipping money in.
32:45People are picking the money up.
32:47They're having money mailed to the PO boxes.
32:50One of the big things is they recruit guards on the inside that are doing all their deliveries.
32:56So either the guards are bringing in the money, the guards are bringing in the dope.
32:59They do have some carriers that will come in and visit, but most of it is prison based.
33:03He goes, if you're on the outside and you're part of the AB, he goes, if you're staying in good
33:08standing, you're expected to kick up.
33:09So if you're out here and you're running a crew, you're expected to kick up at least 10% of
33:16what you're getting back that goes into the prison.
33:18Our stuff was we were buying dope.
33:22We were buying guns, explosives.
33:24If it was for sale, we bought it.
33:26The motorcycle clubs were selling dope.
33:29They were selling guns.
33:30So amongst ourselves.
33:32But then we would use those guys for if we were going to do a bigger deal or we needed
33:38sometimes street theater.
33:39If we wanted to rope them in with the guns because they would sell guns.
33:46David Snow sold us a gun.
33:48But a lot of the guys held on to their guns because either they didn't want to give them up
33:53or they knew that the gun was going to cause them more problems than the drugs.
33:57So how do we find out if they have a gun?
33:59And through street theater, we drag them out trying to help us on drug buys or any kind of nefarious
34:05activity that we're doing so they could, hey, we have a gun, which we could later go back and get.
34:10It was all about just pursuing money and kicking it up.
34:13We dispersed money amongst everybody.
34:16Like with David and them, sometimes we would give them guys money as kind of a show of, you know,
34:20whatever.
34:21For what we were doing, it wasn't the true like, hey, we're a crew of Aaron Brotherhood guys out here
34:27running, you know, pounds and pounds of meth or, you know, we weren't distributors because we couldn't be distributors.
34:35We had to be buyers.
34:40The Aaron Brotherhood is more security conscious than probably most.
34:44You have to be careful what type of recording or transmitting equipment that you're wearing.
34:48A lot of times we didn't wear any because we had cameras that were stationary or we just recorded it.
34:56We, you know, we would do whatever we're doing and then we were writing reports immediately to recapture what just
35:01happened.
35:01The pagans ended up taking a bigger piece of the pie that was operating in western Pennsylvania and Ohio.
35:07The pagans were the most receptive to us.
35:09I mean, if you're going to ask me who, who's the most criminal, who's the most nefarious, who's the most
35:15violent, at that time, the pagans.
35:20They're very old school, 70-ish bikers.
35:23They don't care about appearance.
35:24They care about action.
35:26The pagans and the hell's angels hate each other.
35:28They were having an event down in Butler, Pennsylvania.
35:31I said, let's go check it out.
35:33So we hop on our bikes and, you know, we put our guns in our bags just in case we
35:37got stopped because there are going to be a lot of police presence there.
35:39So we pull in.
35:40As soon as we get off our bikes, there's two pagans.
35:42They go, you got to go report in.
35:44At that point, then I tell the guys, make sure you strap up and got your guns on you.
35:48And then one guy goes, are you in charge?
35:50You guys really need to come down the hill and check in with us.
35:54So you come over this hill and it's about 100-yard drop to the base of this hill.
35:58And there's tents and there's probably 80, 90 pagans there.
36:02And we're walking down this hill and I'm looking at Ivan and Freddie, the ATF agents.
36:08I go, if this stuff breaks bad, just shoot everybody that's not wearing our patch and we're getting the hell
36:13out of here.
36:13So we go down to the bottom of this hill, right?
36:18And we, there's tents.
36:21So we walk in.
36:22So there's some, there's some other club members, presidents and, you know, some of their sergeant-on-arms are sitting
36:28there.
36:29And then they start asking us questions about who we are.
36:32All right, what's your affiliation with the Hells Angels?
36:34None.
36:35We don't have one.
36:36Same with you.
36:37We don't affiliate with anybody.
36:38We're Switzerland.
36:40I go, we're not picket sides.
36:41Whatever Ivan was saying, Dan Osbold, like he was like five feet away from me.
36:47So they would ask him a question.
36:48I'd listen to his answer and then I would just pretty much pair mine with his.
36:52Based on that happening there, that's when Dan and some of the other guys start buying dope from some of
36:58their members where they kind of open up and like us.
37:00Well, the pagans are the same as the pagans have always been.
37:03You know, their business operation, they do a lot of, they do a lot of drugs.
37:07They do a lot of extortion.
37:08Our business with them was going to be drugs and guns.
37:12So, and we knew just by the intelligence that we had, you know, they're really thick as Steve.
37:19At one point in time, Pittsburgh was a power base for the pagans.
37:22Fairmont, West Virginia, all the way up through.
37:25And then you started moving east towards Philadelphia.
37:27So our hope was, is we were going to work our way into their heavy hitters and starting and start
37:33that spider web of getting into their network of drugs.
37:36You know, we were prematurely shut down, but we were on the way.
37:44So as our case was, was, was progressing, you know, and we were still having some issues with the Hells
37:50Angels.
37:51It was in the winter time.
37:52It was around Christmas, right after Christmas.
37:55I get a call from Lake East Hells Angels and he says, hey, junkyard, I need to meet you.
38:00And I go, is everything okay?
38:01He goes, yeah, I just need to meet you.
38:02He goes, let's meet at the McDonald's at 540 and 90.
38:05Or whatever it is.
38:07I go, okay.
38:07He was one of the more influential Hells Angels in that chapter.
38:11So I tell the two guys, there's two other guys at the house.
38:15And I, my feeling, something's off.
38:17I tell them, I go, follow me up, but go sit across the street, post up and watch.
38:21So we go out to get in his car and he looks at me and he goes, take a look
38:26at this.
38:26And he hands me a white letter, an envelope, that's addressed to the Hells Angels.
38:31So I open up the letter and I'm looking at it and there's a picture of two ATF agents who
38:37did a warlock case.
38:39Jeff Grabman and Darren Kozlowski.
38:42And they have Jeff Grabman correctly identified whoever sent this to them as being in the order of blood.
38:49And they have one of the other members misidentified as Darren Kozlowski.
38:53And he goes, do you recognize those guys?
38:55I go, nope.
38:56Never seen them before in my life.
38:58He goes, we've been looking at these for a couple of weeks and we're pretty convinced those aren't your guys.
39:03He goes, on the other side, he goes, we think somebody may be trying to infiltrate you guys.
39:09I go, okay, are we good?
39:10He goes, yeah, we're good.
39:12I go, alright, I appreciate the information.
39:14He let me take the letter and everything.
39:16So I go back to the house, our house that we stayed in.
39:22And I'm meeting with the other two guys and I go, well, okay.
39:25So we could tell ATF about this.
39:27So I pick up the phone and I'm trying to explain to my boss what's going on.
39:31And he's asking questions and he goes, do you think it's safe?
39:34It is, blah, blah, blah.
39:37Well, you know, it was safe.
39:40Well, so some time went by.
39:42Everything kind of smoothed out.
39:44Then we went to a wedding for Lucky, who was a pagan member out of Youngstown.
39:51I go back in the office on money and I get a call from my boss.
39:56And he's like, we're shutting it down.
39:57I go, dude, we just got over the major hurdle of us getting to where we need to be.
40:04This is two years of work.
40:05The case was growing too big and they felt like they were losing control over it.
40:09Instead of dedicating more people to help us do it, they were like, well, we're not.
40:14And it wasn't like we were overspending and funding.
40:17You know, all those cases cost a lot of money.
40:19There's never been a time in ATF, only one, maybe two that I could think of, where our infiltrations have
40:26gone from start to fruition where we couldn't go anymore.
40:31And that's the Mongol case.
40:32And that would have been the last outlaw case where they actually took out all the national hierarchy and did
40:37their thing.
40:38All of these cases tend to be shut down prematurely because management doesn't want to assume any more risk.
40:43They've had enough of it.
40:44They don't, you know, they're tired of the case.
40:48It was successful, but we look at it and go, man, it could have been so much more, just so
40:53much more.
40:53Well, I think we ended up getting probably 30 patch holders, doesn't include Aryan Brotherhood members,
40:59and other people that were involved, criminally and other things.
41:03David was out of prison maybe a whole two and a half years before we put him back in.
41:07He got 15 years.
41:09JB actually died.
41:10He had heart problems.
41:12AJ went back to the pen.
41:13AJ was in for, you know, like eight years.
41:16The only guy that we got to see after was AJ.
41:20When they arrested him, all of us walked in.
41:23And then he goes, all of you?
41:25We're like, yep.
41:27He goes, God, man.
41:28You know, some guys get pissed.
41:30Some guys, it's part of the game and they understand it's the game they play.
41:36You know, it's not to say you don't, you form bonds with those guys.
41:40You're with them so much.
41:42They would not have a problem laying their life down for you, potentially, or at least fighting for you.
41:47You know, standing, having your back, not letting something happen to you.
41:52And then you got the end result, right?
41:55You spend all this time with guys and you know it's coming down.
41:59They have no idea they're living their normal life.
42:01You know, all these dudes are going to be taken out and their life's going to change significantly.
42:06But you sit there and you do get attached.
42:15Well, Youngstown, to me, I would not want to grow up anywhere else.
42:20When I was growing up, back in basically the 70s and the 80s there, I'm Italian Catholic.
42:26It's a town that was steeped in criminality.
42:28Based on the people that I was exposed to and hung around, you kind of understood how the criminal nature
42:34worked.
42:35And you either thrived and survived in that or you didn't.
42:38Got my degree at Youngstown State University in criminal justice and started applying for jobs.
42:43And my dad, who was still on the job at the time, a Youngstown police department, he said,
42:49Hey, he goes, have you considered ATF?
42:51And ATF, they would have these mass hiring spurts.
42:54And in the late 80s, early 90s, this is when crack had just come into the United States and it
43:00was out of control.
43:00That's where they were hiring people for mostly to combat armed violent crime.
43:06It's a lot of it relating to narcotics, okay.
43:09So I played sports all my life, you know, and there has to be a challenge.
43:14You know, you want to win.
43:15It was the excitement, the adrenaline rush.
43:18So we learned about explosives.
43:20We learned about arson.
43:21You learned about, you know, firearms violate the gun control act.
43:25It was everything all inclusive.
43:27And then we had tactics.
43:29And then there was one block that was field operations.
43:33So this was, is getting towards the end of the academy.
43:36So field operations was a culmination of everything that you're going to do out in the field.
43:40And I still think today, ATF is one of those few agencies that you do not have to have a
43:44college degree to get a job,
43:46where most others you bust.
43:49Well, when I got hired on, we had a lot of guys that were like, I came straight out of
43:55college at 24.
43:56ATF, I, for lack of using a better term, was more of a blue collar agency back then,
44:03where if you had a car, it was a piece of junk.
44:06And then you go to the academy today and you got people coming in, Mercedes, BMWs,
44:09because they've had careers and they're coming in later.
44:14And then you hear people all the time, why would I want to do that?
44:16Why do I want to work that hard or put myself at risk?
44:20That was never even a consideration when I came on and with the guys that I grew up around.
44:24I mean, that was part of it.
44:25The skill set that I think I had, like anybody that was successful in coming into Undercover,
44:30is your life experience growing up.
44:32Now, I will tell you, growing up in Youngstown, you're exposed to a lot of people.
44:36You know how to talk to people.
44:37You know how to befriend people.
44:39You know how to get close to people.
44:40The skill set that I think every one of my buddies has, and we always talk about it,
44:44is called the gift of gab.
44:45You could sell yourself.
44:46I mean, you could twist stuff.
44:48You could redirect stuff.
44:49Well, Undercover's not good for everybody.
44:51It's not for everybody because not everybody's a good liar, right?
44:55Does that make you a bad person?
44:56No.
44:57What it means is that you just can't lie.
44:59Because, you know, now kids, they sit on their computers and they play avatars
45:03and they can be everything they want without consequence.
45:05Well, when we were playing, you were actually trying to convince the person that you were a cowboy
45:09or that you were an Indian or that you were a cop or a robber, right?
45:12And this is how you got good at talking to people and interacting with people in our generation.
45:22When I first got into my first case, I had this informant.
45:26He had ties into all these black criminal organizations,
45:29and then he had ties to the motorcycle clubs, this club called the Road Saints.
45:34Biker clubhouses are different depending on the club.
45:36You only get into a clubhouse a few certain ways, but you got to know somebody to get in.
45:42Two, what they now term as an official hang around, which means you're a friend of the club.
45:48And then the other ways is if you're, you know, prospect probate or an actual member.
45:52So I borrow a motorcycle and we're going to go to an event at the Road Saints clubhouse.
45:58Now, there's no coordination.
45:59You don't tell anybody what you're doing just because you don't want anybody to know.
46:03It's a need to know because it's too small.
46:06Most clubs, if you go into their clubhouse, they want you to turn your guns over to them.
46:10They'll lock them in a safe and you get them when you leave.
46:13You know, conduct is you're going to talk to people, but it's always with respect.
46:19You know, never disrespect the patch.
46:22Don't have a bar.
46:23They say we take donations.
46:24Well, you know, they'll stay up all night.
46:26There's generally some type of drugs flowing through there, whether it's coke, bath, you know,
46:30summer pill poppers with the pain pills and stuff like that.
46:33It's not easy by any means that you're just going to walk in there and they're going to say, hey,
46:37welcome.
46:38I ride in to this clubhouse by myself.
46:43The informant's there.
46:44And I'm there about an hour.
46:47And I'm meeting people.
46:48I'm going, man, this is going great.
46:49And about an hour later, the Columbus Police Department shows up.
46:53I'm meeting people with alcoholic enforcement and they're right in the clubhouse.
46:57I've got two guns on me and I'm going, I'm going to go to jail.
47:01And I've only been down this road about two hours.
47:04Right?
47:05Because I didn't know that was going to happen.
47:07So I took my guns off and I pitched them under the front porch of this old house.
47:13They gathered everybody up.
47:14They patted them down.
47:15They closed it because they were running an illegal bar.
47:18They arrested a couple of people that had outside warrants.
47:20Right?
47:20So everybody skedaddles out of there.
47:23So the next day I go up to this bar on the west side of Columbus and I'm sitting in
47:28there.
47:28And in comes a couple of road saints with a couple of Avengers.
47:32And they say, hey, we need to talk to you outside.
47:35They grab me outside and the one shoves a gun right under my neck.
47:39And he goes, who the f- are you?
47:42And I go, who do you mean who am I?
47:44And I go, you guys know who I am.
47:46They go, no, no.
47:47You show up.
47:48You're the only new face in the crowd.
47:49And then the police come.
47:51And they raid their clubhouse.
47:52This was an Avenger talking to me.
47:53And they raid their clubhouse.
47:54I go, I got invited by this guy.
47:56I showed up.
47:57I don't know anything about that.
47:58And then they start throwing out, are you with BCI?
48:00Which is the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investments.
48:02I go, I don't even know who that is.
48:03So this went on for about 15 minutes, which seemed like a year.
48:07They had me pinned up against this back wall.
48:09And eventually I was able to BS them enough to where they seemed satisfied.
48:15And then everything kind of leveled out.
48:19And I went back in, finished my beer, and I left.
48:27You talk to the psychologists we have, they go, every time you end a case like that,
48:33and you cover, you know, identity, it's like somebody, it's like you die.
48:37So you're going through the whole process of grieving the death of yourself,
48:41because now you're going to take me out of this life of outlaw bikers and criminals
48:47and all this and what I'm doing every day.
48:49And now you want to put me back in a cubicle working regular stuff.
48:54So there is some assimilating back into that.
48:56But I will say in ATF we're unique.
48:59Because of the guys that have done these cases over the years,
49:02our wives have been through all of it.
49:04And they stood by it.
49:06So now, yeah, so, you know, now that all that's done
49:09and I'm still doing some contracting work and, you know,
49:12now that I'm in business with my daughter, it's great.
49:15People often ask, was it worth it?
49:18Yes.
49:19It was to me because you see the end result.
49:21You know, you talk to the families that are affected,
49:24and even the families of the people that you put in prison,
49:27sometimes their life gets better.
49:28So you know that while those people are in prison,
49:31they're not going to be able to terrorize or victimize other people.
49:35You know, you're doing good.
49:36I mean, you're trying to make the communities as a whole better.
49:40Now, a lot of people think, ah, you work undercover.
49:43You guys are rats. You're no good. You're this or that.
49:46Well, okay, that's your opinion.
49:48It's not going to stop it from happening.
49:50I mean, you know what that means?
49:52We were good at what we did.
49:54And what really pisses people off is that we're able to get over on you.
49:58That's what pisses people off, that they couldn't smell us.
50:01They couldn't get us out.
50:03They couldn't figure out how to stay out of prison.
50:06It's the game.
50:07As they say, don't hate the player, hate the game.
50:36You think, one thing, one thing, one thing has to be done with it,
50:41you know, it's a dude.
50:44And it goes for you to ask for people to take control and use it and blame it.
50:47To do and great it, that I just gave the truth to this.
50:47I never have one thing in my jersey.
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