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00:00If I've been intimate with someone, yes, I've had a few times where following that clarity
00:06moment afterwards, you're like, oh my gosh, I could be in this all over again. This could happen again.
00:14Virtual reality. Clayton Eckard, Danny and I are so excited to chat with you. A very exciting new
00:20project, iHeartRadio's Love Trapped. It's a limited series podcast situation where you are
00:26going to be diving deep into that paternity scandal, which thank God you were victorious in,
00:32but how timely is it that she was just offered a plea deal today? Did you see the news?
00:38Yeah, I did. And I did just post a video. I mean, I'm not able to say a ton, but
00:44I did post a video,
00:46which most people are understanding as it's me responding to the information that was provided
00:50yesterday. What I will say to reiterate it is that there's a chance she's held accountable to the
00:58degree that me and the victims are, you know, we feel is enough. And there's another scenario in which
01:03she may not be held accountable to the degree in that she'll discontinue her actions. So it really
01:09just depends on her actions now moving forward. And I just, we want to believe the best, but you never
01:17know how she's going to respond. I know. And kind of with that too, where you're hoping there are
01:22consequences for actions, because you were even just mentioning a fear of her continuing this trend.
01:28Have you noticed through dealing with this never, it's seemingly never ending saga. Have you ever
01:34noticed like remorse or anything like that? Never, never. I don't think she's ever once apologized for
01:40even something small, like, Oh, sorry, I misspoke. I mean, she just, she just makes up another lie
01:45if she gets caught in one. So it's, it's, that's, what's agitating is I want, I wanted to like be
01:52able to say, Hey, look, I've multiple times, I've tried to drop this. I'm also times I've said, Hey,
01:57if you just come forward and say that you're in a bad place and you're seeking psychological help,
02:02you know, mental and you do some mental health healing, then like we can potentially just put a
02:08quash on this, but she, every single time declined and would become angry and say, I can't believe that
02:13you're trying to get me to silence me when I'm the one telling the truth. So it's always been that
02:17way for her. She's just maintained her side, but it's never been also consistent. It's just
02:22something new every day. Well, it's so interesting to hear more of your side of the story with love
02:28trapped. Why did you want to do this in, in, in some ways was this healing for you to sort
02:33of just
02:33like expel any thoughts and feelings that you had about this situation? Because I can't imagine being
02:39roped into such a messy moment like this. Yeah. You know where I'm really grateful,
02:46uh, with the podcast is that it's raw and it's just, it's real. Uh, Stephanie, you know,
02:52the one that produced it, uh, that, that she's put this all together. Um, I told her, I said,
02:57look, frame me as I am. You know, I want people to know that I'm not some saint. I'm just
03:01a guy
03:02that went through these things. I was, I talk about how I found myself in the position where I made
03:06mistakes. Uh, and she did a really great job of capturing me as I am. So that was very, uh,
03:12in a
03:13way, um, kind of like therapeutic because I really feel like she captured my essence very well, not
03:18this great, you know, incredible person, not a terrible person, just human. Right. And so for that,
03:23I was thankful. Um, beyond that, uh, it's more just like, I think to just, uh, it's, it's being put
03:30out there to hopefully hold her accountable. Like the more eyes that we get on this, the more there is
03:35a
03:35response publicly. And, uh, the response from the public is the reason why I believe this was
03:41picked up by the county attorney in the first place. She was getting hundreds of letters to
03:44where she had to tell people, Hey, I see, I've seen this, I see it will respond. And she eventually
03:49took the case up. So, uh, for me, it's just more eyes on it. And that's the real purpose of
03:54it is to
03:54get accountability to be served. Therefore, she doesn't do this to someone else ever again, because
03:58she will, she's no, she showed no remorse. So she won't stop unless she is stopped.
04:03And also with you bringing awareness to this and also because this is, while it is such a
04:09crazy scenario, you can't imagine going through, you're not alone in it. And how has kind of the
04:16public with you being vocal about what you've been going through, have you been getting a lot
04:20of responses from people who you don't know being like, Oh my God, thank you for bringing light to
04:24this? Because yes, this is happening to me too. Yeah, I have. Um, you know, I've probably gotten,
04:29I don't know, 20 plus messages like that. Uh, so it, and I'll say this, like, this has been a
04:34very
04:34sensitive subject to navigate because on the other side of this, there's a fear that, Hey, this woman
04:41is, is really, um, making the rest of us women look bad. And so now we're going to be, you
04:46know,
04:47less believed if we go and share our truth. Um, and I've never wanted to be that, you know,
04:52I've been very adamant from the very beginning that, you know, I just believe and believing
04:56victims. I don't want to see, I'm not talking about gender. It's not like we should believe
05:01men over women or whatever. It's like, guys, let's just keep it for what it is. People that
05:04lie should be held accountable. And to that though, as well, I've always just maintained that if you
05:10tell the truth, you'll never find yourself in a position like this. You know, if she just would
05:14have been like, Oh, I thought I was pregnant, I'm sorry. And you know, she's not going to be taken
05:18into court for 14 felony charges. I mean, she was, she was altering medical documents that that is
05:25true intent. That's not a mistake. So I, I don't, you know, the fear of, well, now if this passes
05:31and
05:31she's held accountable, if I'm a woman now that comes forward, I could be prosecuted. It just,
05:36I don't, it doesn't exist. I don't think, cause it's like, look, just tell your truth. And if you
05:40thought, you know, it's, you, you'll not, you won't find yourself in this position unless you're
05:44doing something to the degree that she is, um, which is, yeah, I mean, it's just that she knows
05:49no end. She just keeps going and she refines her work. If you look at the previous victims,
05:54she learns and then she executes at a higher level. So the things I tried to catch her in,
06:00the previous guys caught her in. So then she, she refined it for when it came to me. And then
06:04I had
06:05to try to catch her in something new. So are you anticipating any response from her after releasing
06:13the podcast? Cause the first two episodes are out now. Yeah. They're, they're amazing. They're
06:17very compelling. Are, are you, do you think she'll take a listen and try to reach out to you in
06:21some
06:22way? Because she's known to reach out to you through, through a different number of numbers.
06:27Like she, she figures out a way. Yeah. Um, I know she's listened to it. I know that. I mean,
06:33she, she reads every article. She'll watch this interview. She, she sponges all of it up. Uh,
06:38uh, that being said, she has not reached out to me. Um, I've been a little surprised. Uh, I,
06:44because she doesn't, I don't have a restraining order on her anymore at this moment. Um, I had
06:49a restraining order on her that ended a little bit, I think it was eight months ago or whatever,
06:53maybe even less. But, uh, I thought from that point she would re-engage and she didn't.
06:57Obviously she honored the restraining order and stopped reaching out cause she could get arrested
07:01if she did. Um, but since it's been dropped or expired, she hasn't reached out. And I think
07:08my understanding is she, she realizes like when she reaches out to me, I, you know,
07:12I fight fire with fire at this point. So I, I, I go online and I share it. And so
07:16it's just only
07:17going to hurt her with my platform. So she's, she's stayed away. And I think she probably will stay
07:22away. Dealing with something like this, even though it is very, like, doesn't feel real. It's
07:28very real and happening. And it, I would imagine would maybe make relationships, whether like,
07:35you know, romantic, personal, anything, just your ability to trust new people.
07:39How is that? Like, does, is that something you had to like, kind of help yourself through?
07:44Yeah. I've had my moments. Um, I try not to carry obviously baggage from my past into something.
07:49But that being said, I mean, there have been certain moments where, um, you know, I've had,
07:54uh, a bit of a breakdown, um, like where I started to get really in my head after I've been
07:59with
07:59somebody, you know, so if I've like been intimate with someone, yes, I've had a few times where,
08:03you know, following that, um, you know, that clarity moment afterwards, you're like, well,
08:07oh my gosh, like I could be in this all over again. Like this could happen again because,
08:12you know, Laura was so normal until she wasn't, there wasn't like, she was showing signs of crazy
08:16before, you know, we engage. It's like, she was completely normal and then snapped at a later point.
08:22So, uh, yeah, I've had a few, I'd probably say two or three times where I've, I've really just like
08:26hit the panic switch afterwards and I got in my head and I went dark and I was like,
08:30I just need to stay away from women. Like I need to just like, I can't, you know,
08:34keep putting myself in this position. Um, but I've been working through that obviously,
08:37because I, I know that the 99.9% of women will never do that. Um, it's just this one
08:43unfortunate person that has. Yeah. I mean, when it comes to relationships,
08:47you have been through it, this whole situation with Laura, and then obviously your experience
08:51within bachelor nation, which this podcast also delves into. And it's also very interesting
08:56to hear from people like Susie, to hear her perspective on everything. And also to hear
09:01more of your perspective. And I don't think I realized how difficult the bachelor experience
09:07was for you, but you're really sharing a lot about that on the podcast. And I'm so sorry
09:13that you went through all the online hate. I mean, at one point you said you were focused
09:17on a pistol in your drawer. Like it's just, you went through a lot. How did, how did you make
09:22it out? All right. In the end to be the, to be the boy dancing on Instagram?
09:27Yeah. I mean, uh, a lot of therapy, uh, you know, I did cognitive behavioral. I've done
09:32hypnotherapy. I've done EMDR. I mean, I breath work, plant medicines. I mean, I was working
09:39so hard to, uh, you know, basically find a solution or find, find myself in a place where
09:45I could, you know, feel strong. I could feel supported. Um, I, I spent a lot of time with
09:50my family, uh, and friends, people I trusted. I cut down my circle to be very small. So I was
09:56just only spending time around people that I could just fully be myself with. Um, and that's
10:00how I made it through. I mean, it's the support of other people and it was just the right people.
10:03And obviously just protecting myself because I went into a very vulnerable place. I grew
10:07up in an environment where men harbored everything within. And it was, you know, if you showed
10:12outward emotion, you were seen as weak, didn't help that I played football at a high level.
10:15It's like, that was a very toxic, masculine environment or had elements of toxicity. Uh,
10:20and so I, you know, I wasn't trained to ever really work with my emotions. Um, so I, I had
10:27to be proactive and go find, you know, go be, be able to release them. And so I went down
10:32all these different avenues to do so.
10:35What are steps you do now when you are like, are you able to, are you through that or are
10:40there steps you do now when you're an emotion is coming and maybe like in the back of your
10:44mind, you're like, Oh, don't feel it. Don't feel it. How do you allow yourself to feel
10:47it? You know what I mean?
10:48Yeah. I mean, well, I guess a lot of times, I mean, partly my environment, I work from
10:53home, uh, which is a blessing. Um, so if I ever have an emotion well up, I usually just
10:57let it out. Um, if I'm in a, if a place or an environment where I'm not able to, um,
11:03you
11:03know, then I will obviously use restraint so that I can just basically pack it down within.
11:08I mean, I don't have like, at this point, I really feel like it takes a lot to get me
11:11to
11:11like emotionally outburst. Um, and for the most, most part, I'm able to just go, okay,
11:16you're feeling this. I deep breathe through it and I'm like, all right, Hey, this is something
11:19that we're feeling. Let's address this. But maybe now is not the time. Maybe I'm on site
11:24with a client for real estate. Um, and I feel welling up and I'm just like, Hey, compartmentalize
11:28this. You know, I tell my brain, we're going to address this just not right now. Okay.
11:32Understand like we're in this moment with this person. Don't bring this upon them. Um, let's just,
11:37you know, stay professional and then let's revisit this though. So I just kind of tell
11:40myself like we're going to address this brain. So let's just call this for now. Um, and that
11:45allows me also then to let the emotions subside and then rationale will set in later. That's
11:49the way that I've been able to work through stuff. I just honestly, I talk to myself, which
11:53I guess it'd be seen as crazy, but like it does, it does help. It really helps. Oh, I do
11:56that
11:57too. I talk to myself all the time. I feel like, yeah, yeah. When it comes to your experience
12:02on the bachelor, a lot of previous contestants have said that, you know, being in that confessional
12:08chair and doing the show, you're forced to be vulnerable. You're forced to open up in a way.
12:12It feels cathartic in and of itself to be a bachelor nation participant. But it seems like for you,
12:19it was a more scarring experience than anything. What do people still not understand about how
12:26intense the experience of filming the bachelorette and the bachelor can be? Um, you know, I think what
12:33people just don't understand is the pile on effects. People need to understand that. Yes,
12:39you can not like me for what I've done and you can have an opinion, but when you send press
12:44send on
12:45that message, you think, Oh, well, it's just one message, right? No, it's not because you press
12:49send. And so did another thousand people. And that's the hard part is when you start seeing it
12:54in my world, you know, people meet me in my world. Right. So like in the grand scheme of things,
13:00a small percentage of people watch the bachelor when you like, look at the whole world population,
13:03but still it's like millions of people. Right. So when I make a mistake, all of a sudden you're in
13:09a spotlight and everyone's pressing send at once. And so it feels like the entire world hates you
13:15when in reality, it's still a small percentage of people. And also you, you know, you do learn that
13:20like, Hey, a lot of these people are projecting. You have to remind yourself that like, they don't
13:24really know who I am. They just know what they saw, you know, which again, like there's some truth to
13:29that, you know, but there's also some things that are context is removed. Right. So if there's more
13:33context, the narrative switch switches. Um, so I think that's just the biggest thing that I try to
13:37bring light to is, Hey, understand that it's your, it's not just your one message. And if you knew that
13:42when you press send another thousand people did as well, put yourself in my shoes. And if you all
13:47at the, you know, a snap of a finger had a thousand messages come in within a minute, telling you
13:53you're
13:53worthless and you, you know, you deserve to die and all these other things. Like, how would you take that?
13:58I think most people, if they saw framed it in that manner, they would, they'd hit backspace.
14:03Yeah. It seems like, I mean, with that, and of course you're dealing with so much like this,
14:09this case, and then also your career keeps you very busy. Is there any world of you that
14:14entertains or thinks about a return to reality TV in any form? Are you kind of like, that was a
14:18chapter that I am fully closed on. I would return. And I did last year. I went on a show
14:24at Netflix's
14:25perfect match. Um, I want to, I want to frame it this way, like through all of this adversity,
14:30uh, you know, I had two choices, either to let it destroy me or to, to utilize it and basically
14:35build back up a more real authentic version of me that that's just stronger and can handle,
14:39um, you know, high stress environments. Uh, so I've been able to position this, all these things
14:45I've went through and I found the silver lining and I've said, Hey, look like this helped build my
14:49character. This also helped build a version of me. That's more confident, has more self-love,
14:53takes more risks. And for that, I'm proud of who I am. So, uh, I now see rowdy television as
14:58a
14:58challenge. It's, it's an environment where yes, now that I have self-love, I wouldn't really
15:03recommend someone goes on with a lack of self-love, which is what I did that can make you very
15:07vulnerable. And it can place you in a position where like, yes, you could be knocked down into a
15:10valley and it's your face with these very dark thoughts. But if you're in the right headspace where
15:16you're like, Hey, look, this could go one way or the other, but regardless of where it goes,
15:20I'm still going to love myself through this and I'm going to learn and grow. That's the approach
15:24I now take. So I, I would, yeah, I would do reality television. I mean, I'm very comfortable
15:28in front of a camera and I'm also just comfortable with being real. I don't, I don't take action on
15:33shows with the thought of, well, the audience like this. I just act on the way that feels right to
15:39me.
15:39And I think that's what a lot of people that go on reality television don't do. They're like,
15:43all right, let me do something or say something that the audience is going to like so I can get
15:46famous.
15:46It's like, yeah, I definitely want to bring opportunities my way. I'm not going to sit
15:49here and say like, I don't see this as opportunities as well. Um, but for me, I'm like, look, I'm
15:54also
15:54going to just be unapologetic and real and raw. Like this is what's going on in my head and I'll
15:58answer to it if I have to. Um, so yeah, I, I see it as a plus. I see reality
16:03television in the right
16:03headspace is a, is a really great environment to place yourself within. Do you feel like the approach
16:09to production with the perfect match was different than the way producers handled you within the
16:15bachelor franchise? That was a percent. Yeah. They're, their approach was completely hands
16:20off. Uh, whereas the bachelor, it was very hands-on. So the producers had more of a say in it.
16:25You
16:25should go do this. You should do this. Of course I could use my own words, but they're like, you're
16:29going to go do this right now and take these two people go over here. And it was the perfect
16:32match.
16:33There was none of that. It was like, I told him at one point I was like, guys, do, do
16:36you want me to
16:37like go do this? And they're like, no, no, no, no. We don't want you to do anything. You don't
16:39want to
16:39do like, just go do your thing. Um, unfortunately the, the common thread is the editing. So I had a
16:46completely different experience on production on both sides. And I, a lot of times I blame producers
16:50for my, um, you know, for my edit, but it's like the editors are the ones that ultimately take the
16:54content and then they just decide to narrate it however they do. And I've had more of an issue,
16:59um, with the editors than I have had the producers. I blame the producers because I'm like, oh, well,
17:05you were there with me, but ultimately I'm like, yeah, but they're the ones that are taking all
17:09this, this content and then just creating a narrative. Um, and you know, they, they've
17:14created me to be the same character on both of those shows in my opinion, which I just think
17:18there's more nuance and they just seem to leave that out. What do you think is the lingering
17:22misconception about who you are as a person from the bachelor and from perfect match, this character
17:27that they've constructed versus who you are in reality? Uh, look, I think like, you know, people judge
17:33based off appearance. And I think I look like your stereotypical douchebag. Like I do. I just,
17:37I just know, I see that I'm a tall guy, you know, and I played football. And so people think
17:41like,
17:42that's the way he always was. He he's never happened, held accountable. Um, and the reality
17:46is, is like, you know, I used to be very, very tiny. I was bullied. I was friend-zoned by
17:50all these
17:51women growing up. I was called big brother. That was my nickname. I hated it. You know,
17:54experience trying to date somebody you want, you don't want them to call you a brother. And so,
17:58um, and then I was a terrible athlete. Like I was a fourth string quarterback freshman year of high school.
18:02So I ended up basically creating this version of me now, but I, I really believe that like,
18:08I am a very humble person overall, and I'm not this pompous asshole. Like people, you know,
18:13think that I am. And then when they see me on TV, again, the eye test, they go, yeah, I
18:17mean,
18:18this guy's hurting the feelings of women. He's an asshole. Like he's probably been doing this since he,
18:21you know, since he was 13 or 12 years old. Um, and I don't necessarily identify with like
18:27this outward version of me. I built this Superman to try to impress people and be seen as enough.
18:33And I'm really proud of what I built. There's a lot of hard work, but I, I also, I don't
18:36believe
18:37I have the vanity or the, you know, the cockiness that people place upon me. It's like, no, I'm,
18:42I've stayed pretty humble. Cause I used, I used to be bullied. I used to be small. I used to
18:45not,
18:45you know, be even looked at or view people would ignore me. So I've always kind of kept that
18:49in the back of my head to stay humble.
18:52And I feel like with this podcast series too, because not only is it unpacking the case and
18:56the situation that you're going on, you open up so much about it just in the first two episodes
19:00about the therapy you're going to and everything like that. What can people expect from the episodes
19:06to come? I mean, of course, a lot of unpacking everything that you've been going through,
19:08but is there anything that you kind of like push yourself to unpack yourself in these episodes
19:13that maybe you weren't even sure you were going to share? Um, you know, I've shared quite a bit.
19:18Uh, I would say that obviously the, um, podcast, you know, centers around me to a degree. I mean,
19:24as far as the title and all that, of course, you know, you get a lot of backstory on me
19:27on the first
19:28episode, but what I like, I mean, I've heard, I've only heard the first two episodes, so I'm
19:32right there with everybody else that has listened, you know, as of this morning. Um, but beyond that,
19:37I mean, from what I understand is it's, there's a, there's a pivot. You start to hear the other,
19:41you know, victim stories and, um, it's not as center focused upon me, which is what I really did once.
19:47I'm like, you know, I want people to understand that this is bigger than me. I get it that like,
19:51I have the draw. I was the former bachelor, but like, let's, let's, let's, let's introduce that.
19:55Then let's kind of move beyond that. And let's focus on all the other individuals that were
19:58impacted. You're going to hear incredible stories from, you know, lawyers that were impacted,
20:02that were accused of certain things that have, you know, became very emotional, how impacted and
20:06torturous, you know, Laura has been to these other people and just the widespread scale of what,
20:11of her actions and what kind of damage she creates. So, um, I think a lot of people,
20:15again, that have followed this case, uh, know a lot of what I've already stated,
20:19but what the, what the new information and what they'll be surprised at is how bad the fallout's
20:23been, um, and what it's done to the other people that have interacted with Laura, but like, haven't
20:29really been able to share their story or were willing to up until now because they're private figures.
20:34So I think a lot of people will relate to those individuals. Sometimes people have a hard time
20:38relating to me because they go, Oh, he's a rowdy TV guy. Even though I was only a rowdy television
20:41from on, on TV for like a total of six months of my life. So, you know, I'm like, guys,
20:47you forget
20:47I'm still human. I just, but like, so be it. I understand you don't, you don't relate, but you
20:51can relate to these other men, these men that have families, these men that she's dragged for 10 plus
20:55years, you know, and, and, and just how sick and twisted it all gets to, I mean, the fact that
20:59the
21:00whole family is complicit in this, I mean, it's just, it's, you're going to hear a lot more about the
21:04other individuals and just the, the antics. And, um, and I wanted it to always be more than me.
21:10Cause I was like, look guys, it might start with me, but like, it's actually, there's so much more
21:14to this. And this is why we need accountability. There is so much that gets unpacked in this
21:19series. And that's why we are excited. It's curious. And this series is necessary. So we are
21:25very grateful that it is coming out and we appreciate you taking your time to talk with us
21:29about it. And we hope that you guys get resolution that you deserve. Yeah. Thank you both. I really
21:35appreciate you guys giving me a platform to spread this. Yeah, of course. Thank you so much, Clayton.
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