00:00Well, one of the things I really am quite interested in talking about, and we are in week three of
00:04our podcast, as has been pointed out many times, we are two women hosting this.
00:09That seems to be blowing some minds.
00:12I didn't think in episode three we would be going hard on what it's like being a woman in Downey
00:17Street and Boys Club.
00:19But, big capital but, this week it will feel especially Boys Club-y, which is kind of ironic because there's
00:27been all this commentary about the building in the last couple of weeks.
00:30And how they should bring more women in.
00:31But the moment that you start talking about bombs and warships, it does just get blokey.
00:39And it's a bit like, you know how there's some statistic that men think about the Roman Empire every ten
00:44seconds or something?
00:47Other facts are available.
00:49Someone will be literally in charge of, I don't know, the planning brief.
00:53And then suddenly their sort of latent interest in the risk board game or James Bond comes out and it's
00:58like, I'm just going to go and try outside the PM's office just to see if like...
01:03It's really funny, like all things, like all events, dear boy, it does divide people into sheep and goats a
01:08bit.
01:09And you have people who think, thank goodness, I'm so glad there's other people here.
01:13I'm just going to slip away and think, count my lucky stars, that I don't have to be involved in
01:16these conversations.
01:17And then you have people who get a tiny sniff of those men with their short hair and their kind
01:23of strong voices and, you know, big shoes and then want to be part of it.
01:27And all of the language changes.
01:29It's one of the things that I used to find really entertaining is that you suddenly get...
01:32If the dominant thing is suddenly defence and security, then people start talking about things like, what's the click to
01:40bang on that?
01:41Meaning like, how long is it going to take to get something done?
01:44You think the click to bang on your policy proposal is, I don't know, just what it was last week.
01:50I love that, like my commute is three clicks.
01:52Three kilometres away.
01:54Completely.
01:55It sort of pollutes all of the language.
01:57And you do get people who suddenly, well, do two things, basically.
02:00And this happens in the whole of government.
02:02And firstly, suddenly realise that the work that they're working on is actually really critical to whatever the defence and
02:07security effort is.
02:08And you have to do a bit of, actually, no, it's not.
02:10Thank you so much.
02:10We'll get back to you.
02:11Or people who say, oh, well, unfortunately, now I can't do that piece of work I was supposed to be
02:16doing because of the uncertainty caused by the international situation.
02:20Yes.
02:21And you're like, really?
02:22Is the uncertainty caused by the international situation the thing that means you can't sort out prison places anymore?
02:27Yeah, yeah.
02:27I don't think it is.
02:28Yeah, yeah.
02:29And well, it is a sort of perfect holding line.
02:30Obviously, there's a lot going on just now.
02:32As though the prime minister is constantly in charge of their brief anyway.
02:36I do want to talk about what should be going on with those people because it is so easy for
02:41people to get a bit of excited, essentially drop the various strings they should be holding on to and just
02:46refresh Twitter and hang around outside Cobra.
02:48And again, not to get too on my high horse about what happens to women in these situations, but you
02:55do actually have to keep the lights on and keep the country moving and particularly keep that building going.
03:01Like, these are long meetings.
03:02There's no food.
03:03There's no drink.
03:05Inevitably, I don't know if you found this, but I certainly found this, some of those long COVID meetings, for
03:09example.
03:10It's a woman who ends up doing a job that isn't quite within her brief, frankly, thinking, okay, we're now
03:16on like hour three or four of being on empty stomachs and no water.
03:19I think it's time to take a break and like everyone take a little walk around the building, gather their
03:25thoughts, have a snack.
03:26Let's get back to it.
03:27A bit like running a nursery school or something.
03:31But it's totally inevitable.
03:32And then you find yourself thinking, oh, I'll just pick up all the papers, shall I, so we don't leave
03:36them lying around.
03:36Yes, it's not ideal, luckily.
03:39There is sometimes a real reflex you have to stop in yourself, she says, talking to both of us sometimes
03:43of fulfilling that gap.
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