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00:00That was Chris Mannix yesterday discussing Jason Tatum.
00:05We don't think he's coming off the bench.
00:07Yeah, I'm a little more suspect he's going to be realizing he's stepping on to Jalen Brown's team.
00:13But that was Mannix yesterday.
00:15We played that for you earlier today.
00:16With Tatum, we expect returning tonight.
00:19We have an emergency pure hoops with Justin Turpin.
00:22We call him Turp, W-E-E-I.
00:24What's up, Turp?
00:24What's up, guys?
00:25I'm with you.
00:25I expect him to start as well.
00:27Okay.
00:27Yeah.
00:27It's minus 120 on the offshores.
00:30Yeah, I did hear that.
00:31I didn't know they made lines for such a thing.
00:33Yeah, I guess you can make lines for anything.
00:35That's true.
00:35So, yeah, I would assume that he starts.
00:37Any idea?
00:38Minutes?
00:38My speculation is like 20, 25 minutes.
00:41I don't want to be like a Brian Hoyer here and go anywhere from like 15 to 25.
00:46Probably like 20 to 25.
00:49I'd probably lean that way.
00:50Were you surprised by the 12 and a half?
00:53Because I think that's a little bit of an indication.
00:54Like when a lot of these sports books, they open it up either 12 and a half, 13 and a
00:57half points for Tatum.
01:00Were you surprised by that number?
01:01Yeah, we were talking about it after the show yesterday.
01:02I thought it was going to be a little bit higher.
01:04But it makes sense when you consider the...
01:06Bandula moved.
01:06It's plus money.
01:07But it's now 13 and a half plus 102.
01:10I think that's what it was at DraftKings yesterday.
01:12I think it opened at 13 and a half.
01:13Sportsbook around 12 and a half.
01:1412 and a half.
01:15I don't think I'm taking the over.
01:16Go there.
01:16Good place to go get it.
01:19But yeah, and it's like threes were like one and a half.
01:21Assists were like two and a half.
01:22I thought those were all like pretty reachable.
01:26It is one of those like we have no idea what to expect.
01:28No, I don't think he has any idea what to expect.
01:30The team doesn't.
01:31Brad Stevens doesn't.
01:32Joe Missoula.
01:32Really, nobody knows what to expect.
01:34So it is kind of a mystery.
01:35I can tell you one thing I do expect.
01:37First shot, Jason Tatum sidestep three.
01:39I expect that fully.
01:40Yeah.
01:42First Celtic shot or first Tatum shot?
01:44First Celtic shot.
01:45OK, I was going to say, you're giving us some good info on first bucket.
01:47That's what I'm saying.
01:49You're saying Jason Tatum exact three point shot to start the game.
01:52I mean, I would wager that way.
01:54That's just that's just a visionary thing.
01:55I didn't see the first play design.
01:58Like, it's not like football where they have the first drive scripted out.
02:01No, but I would say we have no idea.
02:03But I think they they have some ideas because they've seen him like they closed the practices.
02:08Oh, yeah.
02:08They wasted no time today.
02:10But like the team has seen him play.
02:12The team has seen him move up and down.
02:14And I'm sure guys like Derek White or Jalen Brown or even like Sam Hauser are probably
02:19like, oh, that's kind of close.
02:21Or like, oh, that's nowhere near.
02:23Right.
02:23Like, they're all, you know, waiting to see what it looks like in a game situation.
02:27But at least they've been playing like five on five with them.
02:29Right.
02:29And he has familiar like he's been playing with these other guys that are with the team.
02:34Right.
02:34Like, I understand that they're on different roles.
02:36They're all in different roles.
02:38Like, Jalen Brown's in an elevated role.
02:39Derek White, Peyton Pritchard, go down the line.
02:41Everyone's in an elevated role.
02:42But he's played with these guys before.
02:44And I think the most underrated part of this is how, you know, constant he's been around
02:49the team.
02:50He's been traveling since the preseason.
02:52He's been in practices.
02:53And even though he wasn't practicing until recently, obviously, has been in film sessions
02:57like he has been a constant presence.
03:00And you listen to some of the guys talk about it.
03:02I asked Sam Houser about it today.
03:04Ugo Gonzalez and Derek White talked about it last night that, you know, that helps.
03:08It's not like you're just integrating somebody that you just picked up in a trade that you're
03:11not familiar with.
03:12Like, there is a level of like, you know, that there's some familiarity there.
03:17So, yeah, there is there is something to be said about that.
03:19I also think, you know, again, they should know and the familiarity and some of that.
03:23Also, Keefe has brought up the DeJounte Murray comp.
03:26I think it's a good one.
03:27He didn't play last night front end of a back to back.
03:29But second night of a back to back, I imagine he's in there again tonight.
03:32He's played in four of the six available games.
03:34I'd say really four out of five because, again, one is back to back.
03:38He went 25 minutes, 13 points, 26 minutes, 17 points, 22 minutes, 17 points, 28 minutes,
03:4515 points.
03:47Why isn't that like a fair baseline expectation for Tatum?
03:51If DeJounte Murray can come back and do it, he can do it.
03:53I mean, the only thing I'd look at is his rehab was obviously a little bit longer.
03:56I think it was, what, 13?
03:57He was 13 months versus about 10 for Tatum.
03:59That'd be the only one that you'd look at.
04:01But you'd imagine that once he's fully cleared, like he's fully cleared and he'd probably be
04:04under the same circumstances.
04:06So, yeah, I think that's totally a fair.
04:07And it's also like the closest you're going to get to like Jason Tatum, right?
04:10Like Drew Smith came back at, I think it was eight, eight and a half months.
04:13But he's a role player.
04:14Like, you know, DeJounte Murray's a little bit closer.
04:16He's been an all-star.
04:17Yeah, exactly.
04:18He's not the caliber of Jason Tatum.
04:20An MVP, down-ballot MVP guy, but he's an all-star.
04:21It's much closer than like a role player.
04:22You know what I mean?
04:23So, I think that is definitely a fair comparison.
04:25Yeah, I think it's going to be interesting to watch Joe Mazzoula and sort of how he uses
04:30him and chooses to use him, right?
04:31Because you could play 20 minutes, but that can look all different matter of ways.
04:35Like, we all think he's going to start, but like, does he close the game?
04:38Like, is he playing like at certain stretches?
04:39Like, I think, you know, I'm sure Mazzoula has an idea going into a game, but then you
04:44got to react differently.
04:44Like, how he looks, how the team's playing and all that.
04:47But, and I'm sure it's something, too, that he's talking with Brad Stevens about, but just
04:51sort of like where and when you play him the 20 minutes.
04:54I think the thing with Jason Tatum as well that will help kind of get him back into this
04:58lineup and really assert him back into it is he's like a basketball chameleon.
05:02Like, he could just adjust to whatever you need him to do.
05:05You know, you need him to play point guard.
05:06You need him to bring up the ball.
05:07He can do that.
05:08You need him to play the center.
05:09He can do that.
05:10You need him guard one through five.
05:11He can do that.
05:12Like, there's really no weaknesses in his game.
05:14Yes.
05:14Do you think he wants to come back and do that?
05:16Come back and be what?
05:17Like, that kind of guy?
05:19Yeah.
05:19Dishing passes to other guys and playing backup center.
05:21Like, do you think that's what he wants?
05:22I mean, he's been doing that his whole career.
05:24Like, that's something he's always done.
05:25He, but I mean, at a certain point, he had established shots, though, too.
05:29Yeah.
05:29Right.
05:29And, and also, he didn't have to, he doesn't want to come back and be a role player.
05:33He said that.
05:34That's him.
05:35That's what he said.
05:36So, you're right.
05:36He's deferred at times, and he's been a basketball chameleon, and if you need him to pass out
05:40a double team, he'll do it for the betterment of the team.
05:43I'm not questioning any of that.
05:44But now he does, on some level, want to reestablish himself.
05:48So, is he going to be happy doing that?
05:49I mean, I'm sure he's going to be happy doing whatever, just getting out on the floor.
05:52I mean, it's going to take time, right?
05:53Like, we've talked about this three-assimation process.
06:05I didn't mean as, like, a role player.
06:07I'm saying as a guy who can fit in and do whatever they need him to do.
06:10Like, that's, that's a strength of his game, and that's been a strength of his game forever.
06:14Like, yeah, maybe right away, he's not going to be Jason Tatum.
06:16In fact, it's probably unrealistic to think he will be Jason Tatum right when he comes back.
06:20But when I call him, like, a basketball chameleon, I'm saying he can adjust to whatever situation
06:24it is, and that team can adjust around him.
06:26Like, he kind of morphs and shifts.
06:28But to Key's point, he's always got, he's going to come back and want his shots, no?
06:31And he's going to get his shots, yes.
06:32Because, again, it's Jason Tatum, right?
06:34Like, right, he's going to get his shots.
06:35I think this whole thing about him getting in.
06:37But is that best for the team?
06:38I mean, I'd say so, yeah.
06:40Him coming back and getting more shots than Jalen.
06:41I never said that.
06:42No, I'm saying, but that's what he's done in the past.
06:44That's what he's always done.
06:45But they've also both exceeded at a high level.
06:47Look at 2020, the 2022-23 season, for example.
06:50Joe Mazzoua's first year.
06:51Jason Tatum averaged 30.
06:52Jalen Brown averaged 26.
06:54They're both all NBA.
06:55Like, people are so fixated on this Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown, 1A, 1B.
06:59And it's just such a lazy narrative at this point.
07:01Like, this should have been put to rest years ago.
07:03I understand that it's different now.
07:04That, like, Jalen has been that, quote, unquote, 1A.
07:06So if you understand that, then, okay, good.
07:08Then there's nothing to argue about.
07:09You understand it.
07:10It's different now.
07:11It is different, yes.
07:11But it's such still a lazy narrative.
07:13Because any time you hear these guys talk, right,
07:16whatever it comes down to them, it's just winning.
07:18Like, that's what they want to do.
07:19So, like, I just can't believe, like, there's eight years of data
07:22that suggests that these guys can figure it out,
07:23and they've done it before.
07:24Like, it's been so dumb.
07:26But it's always been Tatum over Brown before.
07:27So, yeah, that's where I go in.
07:30Because I don't think it's necessarily lazy,
07:32and nobody's saying trade one of them.
07:34And we'll get the occasional.
07:36Except for the caller on Wednesday.
07:37Yeah, no, no, no.
07:38Nobody hears things.
07:39Well, it's a dog.
07:39We're not saying that.
07:40So we're not saying that.
07:41And that is a conversation from five years ago.
07:43And that conversation, in my opinion, should be over.
07:47But Jalen Brown saying this is his favorite season,
07:50I don't think it's a coincidence that it's the season
07:54where he's the clear-cut number one guy on the team.
07:57And so now when Jason Tatum returns,
08:00is it still his favorite season?
08:02Or, like, were the 62 games his favorite season?
08:04And now I agree with you.
08:06Like, he wants to win.
08:08Part of why he re-upped here.
08:09He's staying here.
08:10I think he and Tatum don't need to be friends off the court
08:12to play together on the court.
08:14But that is such a big part.
08:16Because I've heard, not just YouTube,
08:18I've heard a lot of people say,
08:19well, they won a title together,
08:21and, like, they've played out together for a long time.
08:23True.
08:24But not when Jalen Brown was this close to winning an MVP award,
08:27and now he sees Tatum return.
08:28That's why I think it's different,
08:30and we don't know how they're going to react.
08:32I think we've talked about this in the past, though,
08:33that Jalen Brown's always viewed himself as this player.
08:36Like, this is who Jalen Brown has always been.
08:39So to him, none of this is different.
08:41Like, this is who he is in his eyes.
08:42But he says he's sacrificed a lot in years past.
08:45Again, these are words that he has said.
08:46He also said that Jason Tatum sacrificed.
08:48It's gone both ways.
08:49So that kind of does.
08:51People get caught up in the sacrifice.
08:52Like, everyone on the team the last two years sacrificed.
08:56Yeah, but Jalen, I mean, again, that was Jalen's word.
08:58Yeah, we didn't make that word up.
09:00But he also credits Jason Tatum for sacrificing.
09:01Like, it has gone both ways.
09:03Sure.
09:03Who do you think can sacrifice more when they were both out there?
09:05I would agree it was Jalen.
09:06Yeah.
09:07Yeah, I think everyone would.
09:08I believe every year, though, they've been together,
09:10Tatum has scored more points,
09:12taken more shots, and played more minutes.
09:14That's happened every year they've been together.
09:17So, you know, that I think is going to change.
09:20I do, too.
09:21Because the rest of this year, it should be Brown.
09:23Brown should be the leading scorer the rest of the way.
09:25Agreed.
09:26And he should play more minutes.
09:27Yes.
09:27And he should get more shots.
09:28Yes.
09:28So all three of us agree on that?
09:30Part of this, as well, is that, like, Jalen Brown, I understand, like, part of it is, like,
09:34it comes with being the number one guy.
09:35But he's also having his best season, like, just individually, like, beyond just the numbers
09:41and beyond, like, the opportunities he's gotten.
09:44Like, this is the best Jalen Brown has looked.
09:46Like, scoring the basketball.
09:48Like, even if Jason Tatum was on the floor, this is the best he has looked.
09:51Yeah, look, if it's going to change where Jalen's getting most points, most shots, most minutes,
09:56maybe Tatum will buy into that.
09:58And maybe he will be fine sacrificing it.
10:00He's never done it.
10:01So I don't think it's lazy to question how it's going to look.
10:05I would argue we don't know.
10:07That doesn't mean Tatum won't.
10:08But I don't think it's lazy to say, will Tatum buy in on that?
10:12And if he doesn't, and Tatum starts getting more shots than Jalen, how's Jalen going to
10:17feel about that?
10:17What's best for the team?
10:18Like, I don't think that's lazy.
10:20I guess I'm just over the whole, like, whose team is it?
10:22Like, Jalen Brown or Jason Tatum?
10:23Oh, it's Tatum's team.
10:24We've been doing this for so long.
10:26I actually think it's Joe Mazzoula's team.
10:27Like, they all resonate with his work.
10:29You can't go option C when there's only two options.
10:31Well, that's the thing, though.
10:32Like, everyone...
10:33Hang on.
10:33It's Joe Mazzoula's team.
10:34They embody his personality.
10:36But if Mazzoula wants Tatum out, Mazzoula gets what he wants?
10:39No.
10:39Out of, like, what do you mean?
10:40Like, out of the game?
10:41No, no.
10:41Out of the city, if he wants him off the team.
10:43No.
10:44Well, first of all, he wouldn't do that.
10:45But that's not the question.
10:46If Tatum wants Mazzoula out, would Mazzoula be gone?
10:48Long gone.
10:49I mean...
10:49Yeah.
10:50It's Tatum's team.
10:51Again, that's just, like, not a real hypothetical.
10:55Well, it is a real hypothetical.
10:56One person had control over it.
10:58Like, LeBron's gotten 10 coaches fired.
10:59I'm saying from, like, who the leader is.
11:01Like, right?
11:01Like, they embrace Joe Mazzoula's personality.
11:04Therefore, like, it would be his team.
11:06Like, if you're talking about it that way, they're not talking about, like, whose team,
11:09like, actually isn't.
11:10Like, that's not the conversation.
11:12It's Bill Chisholm's team.
11:13Right.
11:13He bought them.
11:14Signed the dotted line.
11:1450% of it at least.
11:15They resonate with the rest of them.
11:18Like, who do they resonate with?
11:19And that's Joe Mazzoula.
11:20Yeah.
11:20No, I mean, I guess they like Mazzoula.
11:22But I think when you look at, like, the players, it's in a weird way, I feel like it's Tatum's
11:26team, but it's Brown's season.
11:28And I feel like Tatum has been there for the whole time.
11:33Like, I give him a ton of credit for that.
11:34He was with the team the whole time.
11:36So, it's not like you have a guy parachuting in and, like, not being involved and be like,
11:40all right, guys, my team again.
11:41It's like, no, he's been there sitting on the bench with the team for 62 games.
11:45He's seen how they've played as a group, and now he's going to have to work himself in.
11:50And I view it as a Celtics fan as the biggest upgrade to Baylor-Shireman that you could possibly
11:57get with 20 games to go.
11:59Even him playing 25 minutes or even him being 80% of the guy that he once was, it makes
12:05them
12:05the instant favorite to win the Eastern Conference.
12:07Yeah, I agree.
12:08They should be.
12:09And, like, looking at Detroit as well, like, that's the one team I think everyone's kind
12:12of circling over them, but they can't shoot the basketball.
12:14Like, their bottom five in attempts and bottom six in three-point percentage, like, that's
12:19not going to bode well come the postseason.
12:21I think with New York, like, their defense is just so inconsistent where the Celtics have
12:25been, you know, very consistent.
12:28Until the other night when they got blown out by Charlotte, they were top five in offense
12:31and defense.
12:31But I think Keith did bring up a good point the other day where, you know, the Celtics
12:35are playing 100% every night.
12:37Teams like New York and Detroit, Cleveland, not right now, Cleveland, might be closer to, like,
12:4280%.
12:43And, like, how far can that bring you?
12:45Like, that's a fair question to ask.
12:46But, like, I think right now, looking at the Eastern Conference, the Celtics have the
12:49fewest question marks just on both ends of the floor.
12:52And I think Jason Tatum only helps that.
12:55No, I agree.
12:56I think he certainly helps.
12:57I do think there's question marks, but I'd agree.
12:59Fewest question marks, I think, is a good way to put it.
13:01All right.
13:01So, for tonight, Jalen is 26 and a half, White is 16 and a half, Pritchard's 15 and a half.
13:08That brown number just moved, by the way.
13:09It was 27 and a half.
13:10What's Derek White's threes?
13:11Hang on.
13:12Tatum is at 12 and a half.
13:1412 and a half.
13:14So, fourth on the team, 12 and a half.
13:16Vucevic is at 11 and a half.
13:18Vuce is closing strong.
13:19So, does that sound about right to you?
13:2112 and a half for Tatum, and would you take over or under?
13:23Yeah, that sounds about right.
13:25And I'd probably go with the over, because I think it's going to be more.
13:29That line seems to me like they're projecting like 15 to 20 minutes.
13:32I think it's going to be a little bit more, so I'll probably go with the over.
13:35Tatum, one and a half threes over or under?
13:37No, he's going to get them up.
13:38I would say over.
13:39I think he's going to.
13:40That's even easier.
13:41I think he's going to take more jump shots, at least to begin.
13:43You know what I mean?
13:44That's a fair expectation.
13:45That's something he's going to be easing in.
13:47He's going to take a lot more jump shots and threes, so I'm going to take the over on that.
13:49Plus, the total in the game is 224 and a half.
13:51So if you're looking at it that way, too, and you're like, all right, how many points
13:54are going to be scored overall and by the team?
13:56So I like the overs on Tatum tonight.
13:59Tatum, three and a half boards.
14:01I don't know about that one.
14:02I don't know about that.
14:03He's a good rebounder, but how much is he going to be?
14:05But is he going to be kind of timid?
14:06Correct.
14:07I don't know if you're sticking your nose in there.
14:07That's what I worry a little bit about.
14:09I think the assist is the best bet.
14:11Assist is two and a half.
14:12Yeah, that's the best bet.
14:13I think it's three of those.
14:14Especially you're like, hey, guys, I'm back.
14:16I'm a team player.
14:17And so he's passing the ball a lot.
14:18So I bet that's easy over, but for a guy that is just such a good scorer, if he plays
14:25the minutes, I think it's going to be hard for him not to score like 12 and a half in
14:29his first game back at home, just like the emotion of it.
14:32I think he, I think the Mavs are bad too.
14:34They're awful.
14:34And that, but that cuts both ways.
14:36If they're blowing them out, is he going to be out there in the fourth quarter of a
14:38blowout?
14:38I could, I could eat into his minutes anyway.
14:41And also maybe, maybe the Mavs and they're bad.
14:44That leads to his over.
14:45So I can see that one way or the other.
14:47If they're blowing them out, he might sit.
14:48And the starters might sit, but they're also horrible.
14:51And so that's an easier avenue to all those overs.
14:54But it's still a low enough total.
14:55That's why like a Jalen Brown, like a lot of his, he's sort of like Tatum this year in
14:59many ways, where like the over under every night is like 28 and a half, 29 and a half.
15:02And you're like, that's probably too much because if he doesn't play the fourth quarter, he
15:06doesn't need to.
15:06So I'd probably go under like Jalen tonight, believe it or not, but over the other, some
15:11of the other guys.
15:11Did we get the number on the Derek White threes?
15:13Yes, it was two and a half.
15:14Two and a half.
15:14Yes.
15:14I'd take the over on the, he's going to be the biggest beneficiary of Jason Tatum returning.
15:18He's burned me so many times though.
15:20I can't touch a Derek White bet.
15:21I'll tell you what.
15:22You're saying this year though, or in life?
15:24Yeah.
15:24Okay.
15:24But he's saying Tatum back is going to help Derek White.
15:26That's going to be, he's going to be, he's going to be, Hauser, well, you mentioned it
15:30earlier.
15:30Like the two man lineup with them is, is one of the most efficient on the team, but I think
15:34with Derek White, one of his biggest problems this year in his shooting inefficiencies
15:38has been a lot of them are spot up threes where he, you know, almost what?
15:41Almost 60% of his shots the last two years were catch and shoot, which is one of the
15:44most efficient shots in basketball.
15:46These are going to be open catch and shoot.
15:47With Jason Tatum back, he's going to start having more catch and shoot.
15:49And even if Jason Tatum isn't himself, he's going to have more catch and shoot opportunities
15:53because Jason, just the gravity that Jason Tatum presents and that, you know, teams are
15:58going to treat him like he's Jason Tatum until he proves otherwise.
16:00So that's going to create opportunities for Derek White.
16:02And I think he's definitely in the most relieved that Jason Tatum is back because it's going
16:07to really boost his shooting numbers.
16:08Okay.
16:09An emergency pure hoops with Justin Turpin.
16:11We call him Turp.
16:12Follow him on Twitter at JustinMTurpin.
16:14Check him out all over WEI.
16:17Good stuff with Sam Hauser earlier today.
16:19Talking about some of what we were discussing, the idea of Tatum being around the team and
16:23traveling with them.
16:24So you can go see that at JustinMTurpin on Twitter.
16:27Turp, we appreciate it as always.
16:28Thanks so much.
16:29All right, guys.
16:29Thank you, Turp.
16:30Okay.
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