00:09Hi, welcome back to Consider This. I'm Melissa Idris. The Center for Independent Journalism
00:15recently raised alarm over a billion-ringgit corporate lawsuit targeting several media outlets
00:21and individuals, describing it as a case with elements of SLAP, or Strategic Lawsuit Against
00:28Public Participation. Now, at stake here is more than just one case. It raises broader questions
00:33about what happens when the threat of legal action becomes a deterrent to speaking out. Joining me on
00:40the show now is the Executive Director of CIJ, Watsala Naidoo. Watsala, thank you so much for
00:45being on the show with me today. Beyond the statement that you recently put out, I recall
00:51that CIJ had published a report about SLAP, the use of SLAP in Malaysia, and this was about four
01:00years ago. I'm curious to know how times have changed or whether times have changed. How would
01:06you describe the prevalence of SLAP use in Malaysia currently? Has the situation changed at all?
01:12Yeah. Hi, Malaysia. Hi, Melissa. And hi, Malaysia too. It's good to be back on Astro. I just want to,
01:19I mean, the report basically was one of the first attempts by CIJ to document some of the cases,
01:25right? And we looked at SLAP tactics used by not just, you know, corporations, but also
01:32higher-ranking public officials here in Malaysia. And we saw that as a means of intimidating critiques,
01:39media, journalists specifically, activists, and opposition figures, right? And a lot of those cases
01:46when we documented were on environmental issues, corruption, or even alleged corporate wrongdoing.
01:52But what we are seeing now is that this is really not a historical problem. It is something that is
01:59growing. And the tactic, as we say, is continuing to be used against media and human rights defenders.
02:07Right? And what we are seeing is two levels. One is general use of defamation laws, right? Both civil
02:14defamation as well as criminal defamation under our penal code, right? And the second level that we are
02:22seeing, and this is actually creating an added layer of chilling effect, it's the use of our, the whole
02:28arsenal of legal tools that we have to push for legal harassment or persecution, you know, that leads to
02:36arrest, detention, investigation. And in fact, it does not even always amount to prosecution. And, and
02:43you know, the case that you were referring to, that we issued a statement one, it's a huge business
02:50company, a corporation filing a disproportionate claim for damages, 1 billion ringgit against multiple,
02:59multiple, you know, defenders, multiple media organizations, individuals for reporting on alleged,
03:05you know, migrant workers exploitation. And this is not unique. The last couple of years,
03:12we saw a number of instances, in fact, even this year related to the same case somewhat.
03:17Uh, we also saw the, uh, the chief, uh, the head of the Malaysian anti-corruption commission
03:24filing again, another substantial defamation lawsuit against two defendants, right? Uh,
03:32both, uh, Bloomberg in, uh, New York and Bloomberg in Malaysia, 100 million ringgit over again, over news
03:39article alleging, um, issues with his own share of holding. We saw a number of, I think in 2025,
03:47the cross-border case of Australian commentator Murray Hunter, where MCMC pursued both, um, criminal
03:56and civil defamation. And these are just a few, and I can give you a whole list of other cases.
04:02I'm happy to do so. Yeah. But I also want to raise then the other aspect, right? That goes beyond
04:08defamation, uh, or the use of defamation laws, uh, which are, you know, instances where we had an
04:15activist in Sabah, who was, um, arrested and investigated for sedation, uh, on the basis of
04:23his advocacy, right? And comments on rights of indigenous community. We've always have,
04:28you know, Swaram coming under attack. And just last year, uh, former, um, executive director,
04:36Sivan Doresami and Azura was, were also being investigated for, you know, uh, the memorandum
04:43that they wanted to submit to KDN. Right. And these are a number of cases which shows that this is
04:49ongoing, it persists, and it is really creating a threat against public participation in Malaysia.
04:56Right. Uh, what's the, like you mentioned a bit earlier, sometimes even when these cases
05:00don't succeed, there's still an impact to the person that the target of slap cases. Talk to me a little
05:06bit about that, the psychological, the financial, the professional toll that these slap lawsuits
05:12take on those targeted, especially when you, um, juxtapose, I guess, I think there's some
05:18bigger newsrooms, you know, the, you mentioned the multinational international newsrooms versus
05:23smaller independent newsrooms, uh, NGOs, individuals who may not have the financial wherewithal to
05:29withstand slap cases. I think this is critical because slap in itself, the reason why this was
05:35coined is because it's something that is used, you know, against, uh, public participation. That means
05:43it's targeting particularly people like media, uh, corporations, individual journalists, uh, and
05:50activists or human rights defenders who are critical, who bring out wrongdoings, who are also whistleblowers.
05:56Right. And the intention of the, uh, of slap, it's not necessarily directly to deal with their own
06:03reputation. Yes, it is an element of it, but it's really intended to stop from further, uh, criticism,
06:12further reporting of this. That means it's using the law then, uh, to create this protracted legal process
06:19with huge, highly, you know, uh, well, huge financial burden, right? But the impact has multi-level because
06:28of course we, it's easier to see the financial toll, right? Extremely costly legal defense and not many
06:35people can actually afford this. We don't have, you know, huge funds to support these kinds of cases.
06:42Uh, in fact, even legal aid, uh, is limited and that would mean that your own personal savings are being,
06:49uh, drained and none of us, uh, including I would say CIJ can afford protracted litigation, right?
06:57Uh, and very often, you know, this might even lead many of these, uh, individuals and organization to
07:03settle or the other, um, element would be to self-censor and then, uh, we, if we look because
07:10it's so protracted, because it's so draining, there is a huge, um, psychological drain as well
07:18because the impact would be you face stress, you face uncertainty and there's also, you know, own
07:24reputational damage because, uh, you, you don't even know if the cases are ultimately going to be
07:30acquitted or the case is going to be dismissed. It, the process in itself can be rather debilitating,
07:37right? Psychologically, because it can be seen as a punishment and that's huge, you know, of course,
07:44the professional rapid, uh, repercussions where, you know, small media entities, you said it,
07:49right? Media entities may have their own pool of lawyers to help them, but small media entities,
07:56small civil society organization don't have this, right? And then we are then obviously, uh, you know,
08:04more at risk of facing career damages or reputation, right? But I, I think that the larger impact would
08:12be the chilling effect on public participation because this is where, you know, as it is, we are,
08:18if we are already facing other forms of censorship and self-censorship, but if this continues as a
08:26tactic and a trend, people are going to self-censor media is going to be really fearful, small media
08:32entities, especially small media houses. And as I said, they might not even have in-house lawyers,
08:37right? What more other support they would be really careful about how they, one, carry out the
08:43investigative journalism, but second thing is also how they report on these allegations, right?
08:50Um, and these allegations are definitely, if you look at most of these cases, they are cases of
08:56public interest, right? Uh, that's why slap it, you know, we use the term slap. It's not for your
09:02one-on-one individuals, you know, politicians fighting amongst themselves where defamation
09:07came. These are big corporations against either big entities or individuals and smaller entities.
09:14So, um, what we learned from my conversation earlier with Edmund Bond was that anti-slap
09:21legislation is being introduced around the world, but may take some time for that legal reform to hit
09:27our shores in Malaysia. I'm curious to know what, Salah, how you see this, um, beyond the legal reform
09:34aspect, is there anything that can be done in the meantime to protect or even resist
09:41um, slap, uh, litigation? Yeah. I think I, I'm always very, very concerned whenever we introduce
09:51new laws in Malaysia. You know, the last two years, especially our track record hasn't been the best,
09:57right? So what I would say, yes, while we are considering, you know, having a robust legal framework,
10:04like in Thailand or Philippines, which has, you know, moved towards how they're looking, uh, at, uh,
10:10judicial and legal approaches to, uh, slap, I think the alternative would be to look at, um,
10:16you know, other policy measures. For example, a lot, as I said earlier, a lot of these slap cases are
10:23cases of public interest, right? You have, so if it's not media, it's also attacked against civil
10:28society or other whistleblowers. So our whistleblower protection against should be really
10:34strengthened so that individuals who are exposed, uh, who are exposing these wrongdoings are then
10:41shielded or protected against, you know, retaliation. And this retaliation could, as I said, include
10:47litigation. The other thing, especially when it comes to media, uh, I think generally Malaysia,
10:55uh, Malaysian public, Malaysian corporation businesses, as well as the government, including
11:01enforcement and, uh, the legal regime should take cognizant that we have a Malaysian media council.
11:07Uh, so a lot of these cases, I mean, I'm looking at the number of cases just
11:11in 2026, right? Most of these cases should have been referred to the media council,
11:17right? They have set up their grievance mechanisms, their complaints mechanism.
11:20It provides space for non-adversarial, non-confrontation, non-punitive measures,
11:28right? So if it's really about, you know, reporting, uh, reporting ethically, fair reporting,
11:34you don't need to invoke your defamation, uh, laws, right? So third thing I would say under this would be,
11:42uh, reform and repeal of a lot of our laws that criminalizes speech, right? So one of our, our,
11:52the issue here is not just, as I said, about civil defamation. It's about our criminal framework,
11:59which allows for misuse of these laws as tools, right? So, you know, Penal Code Provision 499 and
12:08fine 500 has been invoked by high ranking officials on criminal defamation. Sedation Act,
12:15Communications Multimedia Act, these are forms of also legal harassment. One other thing I want to raise
12:22is, I think we need better support mechanism. I mentioned earlier about legal aid, but also in terms of
12:29pro bono support of network of, you know, lawyers who can provide these practical defenses, uh, for small,
12:37as I said, for small media, uh, um, organization for activists, civil society, human rights defenders,
12:44this is going to be critical. Right. And one last thing perhaps that we need to do is really false,
12:51foster a culture of open debate, right? Respect this and look at criticism as legitimate part of
12:58participation and accountability. Right. I hear you. Thank you so much,
13:02Maksala Naidoo from the Center for Independent Journalism, wrapping up this episode of Consider This.
13:07I'm Melissa Idris signing off for the evening. Thank you so much for watching and good night.
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