Consider This: Government Procurement Act (Part 1) — Preventing Cronyism, or Legalising It? - Video Dailymotion

AWANI

Parliament has passed the Government Procurement Act — a law that Putrajaya insists will bring transparency and reform and is key to preventing another scandal on the scale of 1MDB. However, critics warn of loopholes in the law that could invite abuse. On this episode of #ConsiderThis Melisa Idris speaks with Pushpan Murugiah, CEO of The Center to Combat Corruption and Cronyism (C4 Center).

Transcript

00:00hello and good evening i'm melissa idris welcome to consider this this is the show where we want

00:16you to consider and then reconsider what you know of the news of the day so parliament has passed

00:21the government procurement act a law that putra jaya says is key to preventing another scandal

00:29on the scale of 1 mdb and they say it will be to standardize procurement across federal and state

00:35levels however critics are warning of loopholes within the law that could invite abuse so joining

00:42us on the show to discuss this further is pushburn murugaya who is the ceo of the center to combat

00:49corruption and cronism or better known as the c4 center bushman thank you so much for being on the

00:54show with me today let's let's get right into it talk to me a little bit about this um the iteration

01:00of the government procurement bill that has now passed into legislation what are your um your key

01:05concerns with this piece of law hi melissa and thanks for having me uh okay i think first of all i want to

01:13put it out there that um there is a narrative going on that you know civil society and mps uh don't want

01:19this act actually what we are is we are proponents for a particular public procurement act to regulate

01:24this particular area but unfortunately the act that was passed through uh recently is not the act

01:32that we can accept in any way form a matter why let me give you a few examples first of all the powers

01:39given to the minister is extremely wide he can actually decide on any procurement with no upper limit

01:47ceiling that's the first red flag really have then if you look at the act it does prescribe a um

01:54procurement board which is good but again the pokemon board if they come up with a decision

02:02the discretion to accept or not is up to the minister again powerful discretionary power which makes it

02:11redundant in that sense then you have to oversight okay there is another good point saying yes now we

02:16have tribunals for you to uh make a complaint if there's a grievances issue okay that's good but

02:22then we go back to the same problem who appoints to travel or sets up the procedure

02:26it's the minister so all this while civil societies and mps who have been fighting for

02:33the independence of institutions for example macc we wanted to be independent ag and pp separation because

02:39there's issues of potentially control but in this particular case the act actually codifies the

02:45minister's power in so many areas that it gives such a wide discretionary powers and it allows for

02:53executives to control the whole process that's true and the other more common problem we have also is now we

03:01have a minister of finance who is empowered here but don't forget he's also the prime minister

03:11a double whammy is there and this gives us fear factor because look at najib he had both portfolio

03:18and what happened to them one mdb happened so the anxiety is there the fear factor is is real and one

03:24more important point i think i also for a c4 is very important this act actually in a way allows for

03:31the codification of a crony list because in order to be a participant in the tenders you have to be

03:38listed in the list which is approved by authorizing body and that authorizing body can allow or disallow you

03:47to be put in the list without giving any excuse or reasoning which means it allows you now to

03:54have a crony list or codify a list that more is perhaps you know you can become uh for friends of

04:01yours who are part of your political circles so those concerns are very obvious in this particular act

04:09and these are the few concerns we actually have in terms of those act okay can i can i get deeper into

04:14them so when you are talking about um the expansion of power or that you are concerned about the amount of

04:23power being held by a minister are you referring to the finance minister specifically or any minister

04:30okay so one of the one of the concerns or one of the reasons for or the rationale behind having this act

04:37was to curb ministerial power so not to have political interference in terms of government procurement

04:47does this act not address that concern that is the narrative that has been sold but unfortunately the

04:57contents and details of the act actually does not reflect any of the the object i mean the spirit of

05:04the nature of the whole act now those days when you do not have the act all right you have ministers who

05:12you have people in power who do control give instructions we all know that for a fact we have

05:16no proof but it happens but the fact that it happens we can't say much but now the fact that it's codified

05:25you have an act that now codifies their powers their discretion powers and even if they do that in the

05:31future there is no recourse or no excuse to say anything anymore you are basically codifying all the bad

05:39practices that happen before this into an act and entrenching those practices that's our concern

05:46so are you saying that you know so the the idea was that this law would help this country

05:53prevent another 1mdb scandal we never want to see a scandal of that scale again you c4 does not believe

06:00that this act will address the structural causes that allowed for those past abuses

06:05if not it will actually um entrench those practices and now onwards you will not have

06:14uh any more because as i have i've asked i put this question forward to all the mps who will pass it

06:20act tell me how does this particular act in this instance will solve your 1mdb or will stop the 1mdb

06:27how would this act in any way stop your lcs how would this act in any way stop your scoping scandal

06:35if you realize it that this act actually allows those contracts to go through and that scanner go

06:41through you will realize how dangerous this particular act is all right uh could you push

06:48elaborate a little bit so when you talked about the codification of a crony list can you elaborate what

06:54you mean by that what does this crony list actually entail what does the law allow for okay it's it's

07:01it's a bit of you have to do a little analysis but i'll try to make it as articulate as possible so

07:06now in order to participate in any government procurement you have to be uh uh do you have to be

07:15listed in a particular list to be eligible to uh participate now in order to be in that list you

07:24have to get the approval of an authorizing body all right that authorizing body it can be the minister

07:32that gives you the contract which is the minister for example this example is minister finance so they

07:36can approve whoever that sits on a particular list all right now if for example you have a company that

07:42wants to be in the list but he has got alignment to maybe opposition uh party or people who are

07:49not in favor of the government that authorizing body can reject his application to be in that list

07:56which means in other words if he abused his power to a full extent all he has to do is approve people

08:02that they are comfortable with his his cronies political alignments those companies will be parked

08:09in the list to be eligible for government contracts so in that sense it allows for setting up of a crony list

08:16right uh i'm just wondering so some politicians former politicians have also kind of responded

08:23to the government procurement act rafizi is someone who's been quite vocal about it um and he says that

08:30this is a good law but it shouldn't have been bulldozed through parliament should we be reading into

08:36um the process and the speed through which it was passed that entire process should we be concerned

08:42about it do you agree with rafizi pushman no personally i don't agree rafizi and i think again

08:49personally um the reason why it was bulldozed is because it actually gives a lot of powers to the minister

08:58that is the reason why it bulldozed so quickly let me contextualize for you in malaysia the biggest

09:05problem we have is corruption we so endemic is entrenched in our system in our political

09:11structure in our bureaucracy it's so it's our biggest problem all right and yet the lord is

09:18supposed to address our biggest problem was us within three and a half days you put it on monday

09:27and then on thursday afternoon you pass the act that supposedly to deal with our biggest problem

09:35that is the concern that i have i mean how can you do that and also bear in mind i don't this may be

09:41a little bit more conspiracy in that sense but at that particular time the ura was already put out

09:48there bill was already out there everybody is discussing please don't agree with it everybody is

09:53discussing about it that out of the blue you have a public procurement act sneaking into the table to be

10:02table quietly so i mean it may sound conspiracy but i think it's it gives a fear factor that such a

10:11powerful uh bill to deal with our biggest problem was done in such a quietly secretive and very fast

10:20approval method to get it done it's a bit of course of a concern and in fact mps from both sides

10:25government and opposition and still society if you're not saying don't don't go through

10:31hold on change strengthening make it more powerful and really useful then you go through

10:38that's our only demand yeah so could you also elaborate what change what specifically if there

10:45was still a chance to amend the bill what changes would you insist upon i think initially what we wanted

10:51was to see how we can limit the participation or the control or the influence of the executive

10:57that is our biggest concern in any of our government issues of interest issues is how the the executive

11:04controls the entire process that has to be controlled that has to be limited no we're not saying

11:09executive cannot function cannot do their work they have to but they have to be independent oversight

11:15mechanism independent processes uh clear and transparent procurement processes that actually help the

11:22nation go through development in the proper way not where the minister has so wide powers that he can

11:30do whatever he wants that is not a bill that we want okay uh and given that the act has actually passed

11:37do you think uh what what happens now is it too late do either is there still an opportunity for citizens

11:44activists like yourself parliamentarians um to be vigilant or to what what can we do to

11:51safeguard from um abuse yeah i mean first point i hope this message goes through to all mps

11:59mps please you represent the interests of the people do not have party uh interest first

12:07instead of people's interest instead of people's interest this bill does not prevent corruption it

12:13actually and in plenty of other issues so please be truthful when you want to explain the constituency

12:19what is the context of the bill and i think going forward there are a few things we can do one is

12:24really ask for the government to expressly commit that they will amend those uh extensively wide powers and

12:33and manage in such such a way that there's a lot of consultation with us to make it into a much more

12:38workable act that's one perhaps going forward they can have a special um independent commission to see

12:45how to implement uh and also come up with regulations and codes under the act that will actually strengthen

12:52the independence of those institutions and trying to make it much more workable in that sense so there are

12:57some things we can do but we have to have our engagement csos academics to come together and see

13:03how to build a stronger framework on top of what has been passed all right pushman thank you so much

13:10for highlighting these concerns we appreciate your time push from the c4 center we're going to take a

13:15quick break here and consider this we'll be back with more on the government procurement act after this stay tuned

Consider This: Government Procurement Act (Part 1) — Preventing Cronyism, or Legalising It?

Category

Transcript

Be the first to comment

Recommended