00:10Hello and good evening, I'm Melissa Idris. Welcome to Consider This. This is the show
00:14where we want you to consider and reconsider what you know of the news of the day. Marriage
00:19under native customary law has long been guided by tradition and not a fixed legal age. A new
00:27report by Sarawak Women for Women's Society examines marriageable age under native adat in
00:35Sarawak and it highlights the gaps between traditional practices and modern reality.
00:40So joining me on the show to discuss more about the report is Dr. Angie Garrett who is the president
00:45of the Sarawak Women for Women's Society, better known as SWWS. Dr. Angie, thank you so much for
00:51being on the show with me today. Can I begin our conversation maybe by learning a bit more about
00:56why SWWS wanted to come up with this report? What was the impetus to come up with a report
01:03that looked at native adat and marriageable age? All right, thank you for the questions. For
01:09us as Sarawak Women for Women, we worry about child marriage because we wanted to understand
01:16better what is the causing it within our native communities and the view. We wanted to focus
01:23focus on native communities as there are three legal systems in Malaysia. Yeah, we have a civil, we have
01:30sharia and native adat as it is in Sarawak. Yeah. And so as a Sarawakian where the native groups combine
01:39are the majority, we felt it, we should run a workshop to learn about the participation from the
01:46participants. Yeah. What was happening, collect their views and raise awareness. Yeah. Of why locally,
01:55nationally, globally, there are concerns. So we also will conduct, you know, the similar dialogue with the native
02:04community community like in Sabah and also in Semenanjo. We come up with, you know, with this
02:12round table discussion actually. Dr. Angie, what really impressed me about your report was this was really quite
02:18comprehensive. You went across Sarawak, geographically diverse Sarawak. You involved so many participants,
02:25native leaders, women, youth, you had 12 different ethnic groups consulted. So I, very impressive and I'm curious to
02:34know if you could very quickly sum up for us what you learned from that report, from the consultation across
02:41ethnic groups. Yeah. Yeah. From that, we can see that, I mean, the key findings that we got from, from
02:48this
02:48strong table discussion is that, first, traditionally, age is not counted, you know, in the past. Yeah. In years,
02:57so by native communities, so none of the various ADATs. So each ethnic groups, they have their own ADATs. I'll
03:04call it,
03:04I like the native law. Yeah. And, and, and in Sarawak, as you can, and as you know, we have
03:12more than 30
03:12ethnic groups. So we don't have that one consensus is for all. Yeah. And however, they do expect marriage
03:20to only occur when a couple are able to provide for, yeah, and have a family. In the past, this
03:28means that
03:28teens who can provide as they were farming, for instance, yeah, they had the community supporting them,
03:36but today, teens need to go to school. Yeah. And because that's what they was, uh, defined, like,
03:44what is the marriage age. And according to some of the community, they said that a boy who can work
03:51in
03:51the farm, they can provide. So they mean, he can provide a family, therefore can get married. The same
03:58thing with girls, if she can run the call, uh, you know, the household, and being a mother, so that
04:04means
04:05she is also, uh, eligible, or can, can, uh, can marry. Yeah. Um, though this will be 10 or 12
04:15years old
04:15like that. And we are concerned about this, right? And most marriage with girls below 18, as you know,
04:23they are pregnant. This is based on what they were, uh, sharing the better participants. And some are
04:29due to poverty, but the main driver is pregnancy. Yeah. Especially those in the teen,
04:34the drop-up girls. And according to the Twai Rumah, yeah, the Twai Rumah, he just led to a kampong,
04:41like, you know, felt that, yeah, marriage helped the baby, uh, the mom and the father at least,
04:49yeah, in the short term. Because meaning that if both are 18, yeah, and they got married,
04:55they considered as consensual. Yeah. So if you look into the, the child age, 2021, uh, the, the boy can
05:05be
05:05charged. Yeah. But because they are consensual and they are similar age in the same kampong,
05:11uh, so the Twai Rumah said they have to get married for the sake of the baby, you know. Uh,
05:17so
05:18therefore, uh, the Twai Rumah who said it should be as long as the parents agree to the marriage,
05:25so that means they can get married. Correct. Dr. Angie, so native customary laws, they don't,
05:32there's no kind of numerical minimum age that's been said, right? So when, when you, um, convened
05:39the round table, you brought in all the native leaders, you brought in, uh, government representatives,
05:45legal practitioners. What was the consensus when they were discussing this? Was there a, um, consensus
05:52in introducing a clear minimum age of marriage? I'm just wondering what were the points of disagreement?
06:00Yeah. Uh, in there, during the last, that when we launched our report, that is 31st January,
06:08just a few weeks ago. Yeah. We have few, uh, ethnic groups with us. Then we split them into different
06:15groups for discussion. And then there are few ethnics who agree that, you know, the,
06:22the age should be above 18 for both boys and girls, but there are certain ethnic who say disagree.
06:30They don't want to be committed or tied down with the age or else, uh, uh, uh, cases like this,
06:36like when the girls, you know, drop out, get, uh, pregnant and then way by the Twai Rumah have to,
06:43uh,
06:43to do the solemnized the wedding and all that. So they don't want to tie down with that. So because
06:50of that,
06:50we call, we cannot, uh, come to a consensus whereby all agree that the, the marriage age must be 18
06:59and
06:59above. Yeah. Though all agree that they must 18 and above, because now we compare to the past,
07:08right? In the past education is not important. Yeah. Because we, uh, uh, in the great,
07:14great, great parents that we didn't go to school. So the most, they are doing the farming, but now we
07:19can compare that with 20, 30 years ago. Now the education is a very important element for, uh,
07:28children. Yeah. So that is what we're focusing. We want the children, we want the boys and girls,
07:34at least they must complete the form five. Yeah. Uh, form five is about 17 plus. So that's why I
07:42say
07:42we should ask for that 18 and above should be the best. But of course, uh, due to their native
07:49law,
07:50yeah, we cannot make a decision for them because the native law, it should be based on the ethnic.
07:56It comes to the consultation whereby each ethnic, they have their own decision to be made. And then
08:05they will bring this up together with what we call it Majlis Adat, Isti Adat or Maiz. And then they
08:11will come and have a few consultation for that. Yeah. Because at the moment, we don't have numbers
08:19in all the ethnic, uh, according to the native adults. Yeah.
08:23Dr. Angie, thank you so much for shedding some light onto this very important matter. I appreciate
08:28your time. Dr. Angie Garrett there from the Sarawak Women by Women for Women Society. Uh, we're going
08:34to take a quick break here and consider this. We'll be back with more. Stay tuned.
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