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In this episode of Democratic Newsroom, the focus is on the concerns over Artificial Intelligence (AI) taking away jobs.
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00:00Welcome, you're watching India Today and welcome to yet another episode of the Democratic Newsroom.
00:06We are bang in the middle of hosting a very successful global AI summit.
00:10A lot of us out here have spent the last couple of days right there.
00:14And so what we were going to moot in terms of the question this time, it has to do with
00:19AI, doesn't it?
00:20And the question that we are asking, is AI a job killer or a career creator?
00:25Many say a bit of both. Some say, you know, AI is not replacing humans, but humans who know AI
00:31will replace humans who do not know AI.
00:33Let's simplify it for all of you. We have two people who know a thing or two more on AI
00:39than most of us here,
00:41who are the usual regulars of the Democratic Newsroom.
00:43I have Cyrus and Nilanjan with me, and both of them would be able.
00:48Let's begin with you, Nilanjan. Start.
00:50Job creator or career killer? It's a bit of an express Democratic Newsroom this time.
00:55So we have to be very quick with our thoughts.
00:56So the definition of job will change. The job is not going to go away.
01:00Till now we are doing a labor kind of job, back end, back office.
01:05Now it will be more of a judgment and a review kind of job.
01:10So there is a very interesting story where we're speaking now.
01:14It's been a year now. There is a couple of villages in Jharkhand
01:17where the villagers, the Adivasi women, are working in the small offices on small setup
01:23where they annotate and label for high-end customers outside who are AI companies,
01:32and they start annotating and labeling for the ML programs.
01:35For example, when you are training a model, AI model, you need to label each and every photograph
01:41because AI doesn't know. So you have to point out traffic light, you have to point out cars,
01:46you have to point out human beings, human parts, and this village woman, not so educated,
01:52are doing their job and labeling each and every point.
01:55And it is, and this little, little dots of interesting information going back
02:01and you are looking at, oh wow, this is Google German and this is OpenAI.
02:05But there is a huge, interesting data import happening as we speak.
02:10It's a revolution happening.
02:11But Ilanjan, is this a one-off? Because, you know, a lot of people say where India is concerned
02:15and we are talking about AI, you know, we are based on coding.
02:19You know, our industries are based on back-end support.
02:22And what happens to the tier 2, tier 3 cities where we are grooming engineers still?
02:27The kind of education is very different, which is not attuned to actually an AI game in India.
02:33It will boost tier 2 and tier 3 cities.
02:36Usually what happens on tier 2 and tier 3 still now, there was limited by exposure, not intelligence.
02:43Now, these people, because of this AI democratization, we will see all these people are coming in front.
02:50There is no need of English fluency, no software knowledge, no design ideas.
02:55So, you are saying job creator, career creator, not job killer.
02:58Not at all.
02:59Cyrus, do you differ?
03:00I love it with the ease he is saying it's going to be a job creator.
03:03When some of the people who are creating the actual AI, they are saying it's going to kill the tier
03:091
03:09and the white-collar jobs and they say it with absolute emergency in their voices.
03:14It's already happening.
03:16It's happening.
03:16It's already happening.
03:17You know, you have BPOs which have shut.
03:19You have, you know, most of the coding back-end support is now all automated.
03:24All the big tech companies have laid off people.
03:26While they say it's under the garb of over-hiring during COVID,
03:30but 55,000 jobs in the US in the first 11 months, they're gone.
03:34Starting of 2026, they're also, many of the tech companies laid off a lot of people.
03:39So, I'm just saying there might be parts of it that might be sensationalized.
03:44I'm liking the concept.
03:44I have two points for this.
03:46I have two points for this.
03:47India has employed so many people underproductive.
03:51They are not utilizing, they are not utilizing these employees who are working there.
03:56AI will enable them, push them, create a scenario where he will give you 100%.
04:01Look at the middle level, managerial level.
04:03Okay.
04:04You see a huge number of people are on managerial process.
04:08I hope they get educated at the same pace.
04:10So, you're saying it'll be a job killer?
04:12It will be a job killer for a certain period of time.
04:14See, the problem is when the computer came in, people had that window of opportunity to train themselves,
04:19get that level of training because there was ample amount of time.
04:22The pace at which AI is developing, it is astronomically fast.
04:27So, we don't have the time to obtain ourselves.
04:28Sorry, I have a deja vu feeling from you.
04:30You know what happened when computer came?
04:32I had the exactly same people.
04:33People are protesting outside offices saying, computer will take our job away.
04:37Does it?
04:38No, it's a tool.
04:39It is helping you to enhance your productivity.
04:41So, those who know computers will take the jobs of people,
04:43took the jobs of people who didn't know computers.
04:45So, that's what we are talking about.
04:46I come from a very old time.
04:48I come from computers to this.
04:51I'm seeing the same process.
04:51I can't see that.
04:54Now, you're making an ageist joke.
04:56That's wrong.
04:57But Rajdeep.
04:58On that.
04:58It's not Rajdeep.
04:59But Rajdeep, yeah.
05:00No, no, no, no, not on that.
05:02But Rajdeep, okay, now where we come from, right?
05:05When we're covering the story, we travel so much.
05:08The small town, rural dream is still being an engineer.
05:11It's still getting that CA degree.
05:13It's still being a chartered accountant.
05:14At best, becoming a call center employee.
05:17All of that right now.
05:18And most of these young kids are training for that.
05:20They don't understand what AI is going to do in times to come.
05:23They are training for a job which is not going to be on offer in a couple of years.
05:26No, no.
05:26Let's be honest.
05:27India's job crisis preceded the AI revolution.
05:30It's not as if the AI revolution, I think, in the short term will accelerate the crisis.
05:34Because there will be a problem.
05:37I mean, it's all very well for all these AI tech companies to come to India and say, we're going
05:42to make 100 billion Indians AI friendly in the next few years.
05:47It's going to take time.
05:48It's not going to happen overnight.
05:50Look at the vast gap in the education levels already that exist in this country.
05:54And we saw it during COVID.
05:56I mean, you know, you are telling kids to stay at home and learn on their computers.
06:00My, you know, the people who work with me at home, their kids didn't have those facilities.
06:06I had to provide them.
06:07Now, it is extremely difficult, therefore, to bridge this AI divide that Sundar Pichai spoke about overnight.
06:13So, there is going to be disruption.
06:15Just to add to what was just said by Nilanjan, I remember in 1989, I was one year into the
06:22profession.
06:23Computers came into our office.
06:24We were on the typewriter generation.
06:26And we were asked by the union at the times of India to go on a pen down strike against
06:31computers.
06:32Now, in the short run, it did lead to disruption.
06:36It did lead to job losses.
06:38How well Indians are able to adjust to this new AI world will determine the scale of it.
06:43You know, the scale of job losses.
06:45Let's be clear.
06:46There will be losses.
06:47Companies will look to cut wherever possible because their own bottom lines are at stake.
06:53Nobody here is in business to do anyone a favor.
06:55They are moving from quarter to quarter.
06:57If they find that AI is a more efficient way to work with fewer people, they will work with fewer
07:02people.
07:03You know, and the good news, of course, is that there are services.
07:07But I think AI will do a great, you know, can do really, it can be extremely helpful.
07:12Just as Aadhaar has shown.
07:14Yeah.
07:14That, you know, there are services that you can provide people through an AI system that will make life more
07:19efficient for all citizens who can use it.
07:21That's the good news.
07:23The not so good news is, by the time you transition to this so-called AI economy, which was just
07:28said, is moving so fast.
07:30I'm not sure how many Indians can keep up with it.
07:33We are a grossly unequal society.
07:35It's very well to sit there and give this bhaashans and gyan and this lovely, you know, glib talk about
07:40how we are going to transform India.
07:42It's not going to happen overnight.
07:44But we are also a very young country.
07:46We are looking at a back end where AI needs training.
07:48India could be the back office for that.
07:50But, Nilanjan, let me give you…
07:50So we want to become AI coolies now.
07:52But, you know, I'm going to give you…
07:52We are going to become back end.
07:54Okay, no.
07:55And how many Indians will do that?
07:56We started our revolution with BPO.
07:58Why not an AI BPO?
08:00But, Nilanjan, I'll give you an example, right?
08:02And it's a very basic example.
08:04I have a house help.
08:05Her husband's a plumber.
08:06She's a house help.
08:07She didn't want her kids to become either of the two.
08:09A plumber or a house help.
08:11She's put in all her money in the last 10 years to only educate those two young kids to become…
08:17One is getting into an engineering course and the other one is maybe not becoming a doctor but something to
08:23do with medicine.
08:24And she asks me at the back of this, will they both be safe?
08:28Of course they will.
08:29They will not be.
08:29No, no, let's not also engage in fear, mom.
08:31No, it is.
08:32You see, no, no, this is a fear, let's not engage in fear, mom.
08:34But how do you know?
08:35I'm concerned, I'm so concerned.
08:37This is like the guys who…
08:38But you're not training there.
08:38This is like the guys who in 1989 told me to go on a pen down strike when computers…
08:43But Randi, you have a pen down on AI anchors.
08:45You have a pen down on Times of India.
08:47I want to do a mic down on AI anchors.
08:49But Randi, are you training?
08:51No, no, are you telling me that an AI…
08:52No, no, one minute.
08:53Will an AI anchor replace an anchor who can show empathy?
09:24No, no, no, no, no, that's why I'm saying I'm undone.
09:25When that 20% amplifies, what happens to a population size of India?
09:30Bigger question is, who's running these AI companies?
09:34I have a major issue with AI with trust.
09:36I don't know if I can trust these companies.
09:38I don't know if I can trust their biases.
09:41I know that these are big tech companies which are here to make profit.
09:45And they are not here to make our lives better.
09:48AI, when it comes in, I am not sure if it will solve for major big issues that we have.
09:54I'm not sure if it will solve for traffic.
09:56I'm not sure if it will solve for pollution.
09:57It will not solve for cancer.
09:59It will solve for their own profits, their own mode members.
10:03But you already sold your soul with social media.
10:07How are you trusting them with their own information?
10:10Svesha spent the last three days at the AI summit.
10:13She's been right in the middle of all the innovation swirling.
10:17But, you know, I just want to give, just, you know, food for thought.
10:20Like, where junior primary education is concerned, even till now,
10:24about over 40% of kids do not have access to computers.
10:28Yes.
10:28So, what are we training these kids for?
10:30You know, you're training them for an AI.
10:33Computer is so old.
10:34It's mobile.
10:35Everything is a mobile device.
10:37But, Nilajan, they are still aspiring to get on to learning computers.
10:40They're, are we, do we have an education model?
10:43I can do anything with my phone.
10:44You can.
10:45But do we have an education model and assist me?
10:47But what are you doing?
10:47When we are creating kids to actually join the AI race.
10:50I want to say this, I was at the India Today Education Conclave and we had the best educationists
10:55in the country, all under the same roof.
10:58And literally the quick takeaways from that conversation, from the conversations that happened
11:02there were also that the degrees, the universities, what schools are teaching, what universities are teaching,
11:09most of this is going to be redundant.
11:12It will not have the sort of relevance that we are imparting to the children.
11:16While universities are becoming AI ready, while schools are trying to get AI ready, 15 lakh schools in the country,
11:23with the sort of population size that we have, and given the fact that we are in the transitional stage,
11:27what really happens to us, our generation, our jobs.
11:32And I'm very concerned because while we continue to say that-
11:35Are you worried for your kids?
11:36And I'm very worried because I don't know what they're learning today, how relevant it will be tomorrow, that.
11:41And also I want to say one more thing.
11:43I saw these fabulous demonstrations of AI, how simple they were.
11:49And I have no two doubts about the fact that tier two and tier three population will be able to
11:55take to AI very easily.
11:57They are in the simplest of language, they can help, they can be understood, they can help understand very easily.
12:06But my concern is that while all of this will happen, what happens to jobs, what happens to what we
12:12are studying at school,
12:13what happens to what we are studying at universities, how relevant will our degrees be?
12:19And while a lot of government officials-
12:21Are we being the larger question?
12:22I just want to say, one, one, one.
12:25I've been hearing a lot of government officials and ministers talk and they say,
12:29Oh, AI will come into the country, we'll ensure it trickles down to every level.
12:33And we'll calibrate, it'll be done in a calibrated manner.
12:37But what is that calibrated manner?
12:39What is the planning?
12:40Primary education is a problem, Naranjan, in this country.
12:42But okay, let's flip this argument.
12:44Let's flip this argument.
12:50Creator economy is challenging news channels, television, everything.
12:54Who created that creator economy?
12:55From a small village to a small town, they have created the creator economy.
13:00There is no school, there is no university.
13:02Point being, you don't have to go to school for education now.
13:06The whole system is changing.
13:08That's a good point.
13:09It's changing.
13:10What about the kids who are passing on after 10 years?
13:13What happens in this particular decade?
13:15Where is the clarity?
13:16Education, I can tell you.
13:17What about the idea economy?
13:19Okay, I'm getting, okay.
13:20A lot of work I do today, right now in office, doesn't come from my school education.
13:25Or what I learned in college, like the basic foundation.
13:27I'm the biggest example.
13:28I'm a designer.
13:29So a lot of what I do today is because of what I learned at work over my experience.
13:33It wasn't because of education.
13:35A certain part of me agrees, yes, education might not play an important role in the future.
13:39But a lot of the education will happen if you experience AI.
13:43If you like plan your life with AI.
13:45But what happens to the unskilled or semi-skilled?
13:49Exactly.
13:50That too.
13:50I bought a bori and I saw this in Maharashtra this time.
13:54And you see it every time.
13:56You know, the man and the woman are taking the soya bean bori, the bag.
14:00Yeah.
14:01And they're paid 500 bucks for what is back-breaking work, right?
14:05Is AI going to do that for them?
14:07And if it does that, what happens to their 500 bucks that they are paying for?
14:10Amazing.
14:10What's in our house?
14:11The good seller job will survive and flourish.
14:13It is not me saying.
14:14It is the survey saying globally.
14:16Okay.
14:16All electricians, assistants, nurses, these jobs are going to be…
14:21So, Nilanjan, so basically what we are saying is, till now, we have only tried to
14:25sow one dream, which was to aspire to be not a nurse but be a doctor.
14:28To aspire not to be a plumber but to be an engineer.
14:32Now, we are going to reverse it.
14:33And we are saying, don't be a plumber, don't be an engineer, don't be a doctor, be a nurse,
14:38be a plumber.
14:39That's what we are doing.
14:39So, AI you are saying will bypass the blue collar.
14:42Exactly.
14:43Yes.
14:43The blue collar worker.
14:44Exactly.
14:44The white collar will face initially, I am telling you this because I have been reading
14:50this about, blue collar job will survive, white collar job will have some impact and
14:56slowly, it will stabilize because there are…
14:59AI is not a separate entity.
15:02It needs to be fed.
15:03But there are going to be sacrifices.
15:04It's not going to happen smoothly, sir.
15:05Okay.
15:05I'm going to take 30 seconds last.
15:07Let's begin with Suresha.
15:08We'll come to you, Sonal, quickly.
15:10I am scared.
15:11I am concerned.
15:12I'm worried about the data going out.
15:14I'm worried about the jobs getting lost.
15:15I'm worried about how these children are going to handle it.
15:18I'm worried about the education level of, you know, whether they are going to get too
15:23addicted to AI, whether critical thinking will go for a toss.
15:26I have a lot of questions while I've been part of these conclaves and summits and, you
15:30know, all the excitement is, well, okay, I want to take to it.
15:36But what really will be the real effect?
15:38I'm concerned.
15:39You are already sold your everything to your social media, to your networking.
15:46Which is why I think for me, AI is still all about trust and I don't trust.
15:51I don't trust the companies that run AI.
15:53I also know that which are the biggest companies at the moment.
15:56You have Google, you have Meta, you have OpenAI, etc.
15:58What have they done within the past couple of months?
16:01They have cut down their fact checks.
16:02They have cut down any research.
16:04They are playing in the hands of politicians and there will be concentration of power.
16:08My problem with AI is we keep talking about how it will make everybody more, you know, united.
16:15I think it will just lead to a more concentration of power in the hand of the few.
16:18Five years back, you uploaded those pictures in Facebook and trying to show it to your people.
16:23Look, I am happening.
16:24I'm doing this.
16:25They are used in your trained models.
16:27The models you are now saying, complaining about, those models were fed and trained.
16:33But okay, the question is, it's the people who run the AI, I know, it's the people, come on, it's
16:37the people.
16:38Facebook cannot be the, sorry, 30 seconds.
16:41I'm just saying it is going to disrupt the job market.
16:43Yes, people will lose jobs, it is a fact, a lot of the tech leaders here, it will happen.
16:48The only thing is, it's happening just too fast.
16:51The development needs to slow down a little.
16:52People need to stop being greedy and this capitalist system needs to take.
16:55And especially in a country like ours, like I said, they are largely dependent on models
16:58which are now obsolete already.
17:00Correct.
17:00My, you see, India is a, I repeat, India is a deeply unequal society.
17:05So my fear, look, I think, as I said, the positive of AI is, and the good thing about India
17:10is,
17:10India knows and has shown the capacity to embrace new technologies.
17:15Right.
17:15There were those who suggested that, how will someone sitting in a small village be able to do digital transactions?
17:22Well, they can.
17:23So that doesn't worry me, the advent of technology.
17:26But will the technology reduce inequalities in our society?
17:30Or will it lead to certain lack of opportunities for those who may not be as trained in the AI
17:36world as others are?
17:37This AI divide, this AI inequality, I think, is real.
17:41And I will only embrace AI fully when I know that this AI inequality that is built into the system
17:47can be overcome.
17:48I want my daughter to be a farmer.
17:51I think that's the only job that's secure.
17:55I mean, I'm surprised that she covers medicine.
18:00Doctors will be needed.
18:01You cannot replace a doctor through AI.
18:04You cannot.
18:04We need more doctors.
18:06We are the only doctors.
18:08Okay, guys, that's all the time we have for now.
18:09Whether we embrace it.
18:11And you can't replace anchors also with AI.
18:13Whether we embrace it.
18:15Anchor reporters.
18:16Okay, guys, that's a hard cut now.
18:18Whether we embrace the AI wave or we don't, it is coming.
18:21So we've got to welcome it.
18:23But on the other hand, are we as a country equipped to deal with it?
18:27Are our systems equipped to deal with it?
18:29I think that requires a level of greater urgency to address.
18:33With that, thank you for joining us.
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