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00:00Welcome back to Against the Cage, Scott Fontana here with CEO of PFL, John Martin,
00:05who's about a week and a half removed from the organization's first event of 2026.
00:18John, first off, obviously this is our first chance to speak, but you've been making your
00:24media rounds ever since you took over at the PFL last year. And, you know, there was one quote
00:30from the statement that PFL put out when you were announced as the CEO that kind of I want to
00:36touch
00:36upon right here. It was my two greatest passions are leading media companies and MMA. So fight fans,
00:43I think, as you probably know, they're pretty good at sniffing out authenticity. And I got to say,
00:48it certainly seems like you are an authentic fan of this crazy sport. So I want to ask you
00:55about and maybe you've been asked this already, but I do want to ask you about kind of the origins
01:00of how you came to appreciate mixed martial arts. All right. Yeah, great. And yes, I am a real
01:08passionate fan. And I have been since the very, very earliest days of the UFC. I became a martial
01:14art student when I was in my mid 20s. And, and remember, and I've studied karate, jiu jitsu,
01:24muay thai, some judo, and I fought in some amateur stuff. MMA, I wasn't that great as a fighter. But
01:32I
01:32loved it. Interesting. And, and, and so and I did all this while I was working and had a career.
01:38And, but, but the first time that I saw a UFC event on TV, and then when I, when I
01:47finally went
01:47to an event in person, I honestly thought it was the most exciting sporting event I had ever seen
01:53and been involved in. And I immediately saw the commercial possibilities of this growing into a
01:59big sport. And in my nearly 30 years, while I was at the entertainment company, Time Warner,
02:04I tried twice unsuccessfully to get the company to acquire the UFC. Dana White called me initially in
02:132015, I think. And, and, and asked me, no, 2005, excuse me, I'm a decade off. 2005, called he wanted
02:24to some help on on US TV distribution. And I was at Time Warner Cable at the time. And, and
02:31I asked him,
02:32I said, I know who you are. How do you know who I am? And he said, well, I've been
02:36asking around the
02:36industry to find out if there's anybody that I could speak to who knows about MMA and might be
02:40favorable towards MMA. And your name was the only one that ever keeps coming up. So we, we became
02:47friendly at the time, never been close friends, but I've really, really watched and respected what he
02:52did. We, you know, he approached me in 2008 about partnering HBO and its boxing arm with, with UFC.
03:02I tried to make that happen, but it was just too early for my company. We weren't prepared to do
03:06that. And then the real opportunity that we missed was in 2016, when the company got sold to, to
03:12Endeavor. And, and I had done a lot of diligence with the Turner team that I was there with. And
03:18I strongly recommended to my boss, Jeff Bukas at the time that, that time want to require the UFC.
03:24I thought it was the single best acquisition opportunity ever brought in front of me. And I
03:29was running Turner at the time, which was the second largest TV company in the world. And
03:33unfortunately, Jeff was well down the path towards selling the company to AT&T at that moment. So it
03:38didn't happen, but that, that brings me forward to the opportunity here at PFL. You know,
03:45I still see enormous opportunity in the global MMA category in the sport. I have a lot of respect
03:52for what UFC has been able to do. And I look at the PFL and I see opportunity everywhere to
03:59grow,
03:59to expand geographically, to get people better known to the brand and showcase the elite fighter roster
04:07that we have. We have some of the best fighters in the world. And that's, so that's, you know,
04:12that's the new challenge for me. And I'm, I'm thrilled to be here.
04:16Sure. Sure. And of course, you've been very candid, you know, about the challenge that this
04:21is a big year for PFL, right? You, you, you know, the stakes, you know, how important it is for
04:25on several levels, right? You're, you and your team, you're coming off your first event of 2026.
04:31And in essence, really the new era of this company, what was, what was kind of the best thing
04:36to come out of that Dubai event earlier this month? And also maybe the biggest lesson you guys
04:42take away from that, that you can push going forward.
04:45Look, I think we got out of the gates really strong in Dubai. And that was a showcase of the
04:53type of events that fans can expect from the PFL going forward. I mean, we had two championship
04:58fights in some of what you said, there are a lot of changes that have been happening at the PFL.
05:04We've stepped away from a world tournament format. We're going to what is more traditional. We're
05:09going to have weight classes, we're champions, and we just introduced a ranking system that's
05:13going to continue to evolve and develop. But we had, you know, some incredibly elite fighters on
05:19that card. And, and honestly, I think that card would have stacked up against the UFC or any other
05:25fighting organization in the world. So I'm really, really proud of, of, of how we started the year.
05:31And I think the lessons or the learnings is just that we have to just keep doing this. I mean,
05:36we've got 16 global events, we've got eight regional events that we've announced, and we're
05:41going to be in new cities and new areas of the world. And, and I'm, I'm thrilled and excited. But,
05:47but as you mentioned, and I've said in the past, this is the biggest year in the company's history.
05:51Like we've got to really, really make a mark with, with fans. And if we do that in a way
05:57that we,
05:58you know, again, PFL has been growing really, really fast, but I come up from a world where
06:04I was always leading and managing big, huge brands. How do you scale brands? And that's the goal here.
06:10And, and, and I don't want to take a long time to try to do that. So to have the
06:15early momentum
06:16from Dubai, put on fantastic, exciting cards everywhere we go. And that's, that's going to
06:21be my goal. That's the priority. There was definitely a, you could tell there was a depth
06:26of let's say ranked and caliber, you know, upper level mixed martial arts talent throughout this
06:34card, not just at the top, but even deeper into the prelims and that kind of thing. One thing I
06:38did
06:38want to ask you about though, cause I'm always surprised about this when let, you know, other,
06:42other, uh, fight entities out there, they, there's an opportunity once in a while where the UFC doesn't
06:49have an event whatsoever that weekend. Now this particular Dubai card happened to be on a UFC,
06:55uh, weekend as well. It wasn't a pay-per-view or numbered event, right? We don't have a pay-per
06:59-view
06:59anymore. Um, but the next weekend, I mean, MMA was kind of, the landscape was pretty dead. There was no
07:05UFC,
07:05no PFL, hardly any notable regional promotions. I'm curious what kind of goes into the decision to
07:11maybe not have it on that weekend, the next weekend when you can just own the MMA world.
07:17Yeah, no, look, I mean, I think looking at from the outside, that's a very logical question and
07:21you go, well, why wouldn't you zig when they're zagging? And why would you, the, the, now that I'm
07:26running the company, I realized it's slightly more involved than you'd think in terms of, uh,
07:32aligning the cards, having the fighters go into camp, get, uh, and then securing venues,
07:39knowing where you're going to go. And then importantly, get TV dates. So, and that's in
07:44the United States, that's coordinating with our partner ESPN. So all of that takes time and, uh,
07:51and you know, we're doing it. UFC is doing it. We announced at different times and sure,
07:56in a perfect world, you'd like to avoid the overlap whenever you can. It's just, uh, it's,
08:02it's not always achievable. And, and look, the world is a big place. 85% of, of the MMA fans
08:08in
08:09this world are outside the U S there's plenty of opportunity for people, uh, all over the world to,
08:16to get introduced or get reacquainted with PFL and, and really take a look at our, our, our,
08:21our product. Sure. Sure. Now let's talk about that, especially the kind of what went down
08:27at Dubai. We had Usman and Magomedov goes out there, defenses title, uh, the lightweight title
08:33chokes at Alfie Davis. You know, he is, uh, the number one, you've mentioned the rankings that PFL
08:39now has. He is number one, the pound for pound on your list. Is he also the face of the
08:44PFL?
08:46I don't know if we have a face of the PFL. I mean, we, you know, similar to the UFC.
08:52I mean,
08:52we're, we're an organization and a promotion and, and it's always going to be, it's always going to
08:58transcend any one individual fighter or fighters. Like I'm proud that we have outstanding fighters.
09:04I mean, Usman is a world-class elite fighter and, and people compare if he were to fight in the
09:11UFC,
09:11how would that stack up? I think he might be the best lightweight in the world. Uh, and he proved
09:18that again, uh, against Alfie Davis. I mean, I thought Alfie was going to give him a tough fight.
09:23They had really interesting styles. They both have, uh, incredible kicking ability, which,
09:29you know, many in MMA don't have. And, uh, it went into the third round, but, but Usman,
09:34uh, has, has got, he's got it all. Uh, he's got striking, he's got kicks that are really dangerous.
09:43And then of course his, his wrestling is, is among the most elite. So him, you know, really securing
09:49that, you know, he's now walking around with the aura of a champ. And, uh, and so we, we look
09:55forward
09:55to continuing to, to watch him continue to grow. But, but if you look at the card, it was, it
09:59was
10:00stacked and we were going to put Dakota ditch of it on that card as well. Uh, but unfortunately she
10:05got injured. So looking forward for her healing and coming back and every, every card is going to
10:11have championship quality type of fights. Sure. Yeah. Obviously that was a, that was a loss for,
10:17uh, does not have Dakota on that one, but then, and again, nonetheless, I mean, I, I even took notice
10:21of the fact that this was a pretty well-stacked and well-built card. I do want to ask you
10:26though,
10:26obviously, you know, you're not, uh, immune to this. You understand there's been a lot of chatter
10:30about Usman's contract, right? He's got the one fight left as we understand it. Um, he's been very
10:36complimentary about the way PFL has treated him since he came over from Bellator and that acquisition
10:41also clear that he'd like to be paid what he feels he's worth. How confident are you that the two
10:46sides can find an agreement, keep this world-class fighter in the fold? Yeah, look, I mean, I think we've
10:52got a really, really strong relationship with Usman and it was nice to see him speak kindly about
10:57the PFL because, you know, sometimes in this game, uh, fighters, fighters don't always speak
11:03kindly about the promotions that they're, that they're engaged with and involved with. Uh, I think,
11:08look, I, I, I, I think it's really important that we, we attract and retain our, our quality fighters
11:15and, you know, he has one more fight to go. And then I look forward to sitting down with him
11:20again
11:21and, and talking about what his future is and, and how we can continue to be the best place for
11:26him. I expect that we can be competitive with any promotion in the world to keep the people that
11:31are most important to us. So we'll wait and see what happens, but I'm, I'm glad. I think PFL has
11:36been good for him. I think, you know, there's, there's a number of really great potential fights
11:41in his weight category that we could offer him. Uh, and, and so, you know, I think we can be
11:46competitive with anybody and, and we'll see where it goes from there. Yeah. As far as kind of that
11:51next fight, you're talking about the fights you guys can offer him. Obviously he has taken out,
11:55you know, three of the top five in your lightweight rankings here. He obviously is probably not going
12:01to be fighting Gachi Rabadonov, his teammate here. So that would seem to leave unbeaten Archie Colgan
12:07as kind of like this logical opponent for him at 155 pounds later. Does that sound accurate to you?
12:12I like that fight. I think that's, that's the next logical fight. Uh, we haven't made that yet. We
12:19haven't announced it yet, but I think if you look at the type of fighters that could give Usman a
12:26run
12:26for his money and could really be competitive, Archie is an elite wrestler, uh, at the highest level
12:33and, uh, is unbeaten. And, uh, and I think, uh, you know, I liked that fight. So I think for
12:38a lot
12:39of reasons, uh, that, that would make sense. And, you know, look, Usman's surname, it carries a lot
12:46of weight in this sport. You know, the, the Nurmagomedov name is, is very, very established as this is
12:52real. This is MMA. This is as real as it gets. Right. Um, and of course this is extended Dagestani
12:57family, right. Even, even Gachi Rabadonov there. Um, PFL, obviously they have, they have a key
13:02pair of other recognizable names as well. We mentioned one Dakota Ditchiva. There's also
13:06Francis Ngannou, uh, their situations are very significantly different from one another right
13:11now, but what can you say about as far as PFL's plans for them in this coming year?
13:17Uh, well, as it relates to Francis, I don't have anything to talk about or announce at the,
13:22at the present time. And, and when we do, you know, I get asked this question in almost every
13:26interview that I do. Uh, so I would just say when, when, when there's a time to announce something
13:31with regard to Francis, we'll do it. Um, who was the other one you asked about?
13:35Dakota, Dakota Ditchiva.
13:37Well, Dakota, you know, I mean, look, she's, I, I met with her in Dubai, uh, and, and she's healing
13:43really well. And, and so, um, you know, we don't have anything to announce yet, but you know,
13:50Denise Killholtz was supposed to fight her on the Dubai card and, and she fought on the card and
13:55she won. Um, that's a fight I still like and think could make sense. Um, there's, uh, there's,
14:04uh, Liz Carmouche who definitely has to be in title consideration right now. That's a vacant title
14:09in that weight class. Uh, and, and so that's something that deserves consideration. Uh, I think
14:16it'd be a really good fight. And, uh, and then, you know, the, the one that everybody came away and
14:21walked away, uh, after the Leon, when, when Chris Cyborg won her latest championship and called
14:27out Dakota, you know, the question is, do they ever meet up and does, does Cyborg come down and
14:33wait? And would Dakota agree to go up and wait? I don't know the answer, but I certainly would that,
14:38that'd be a lot of fun to try to make that fight happen. Yeah. That was interesting when she called
14:42that out, right? Because, because it almost seemed like Cyborg, and I don't want to put words in her
14:46mouth. Cause I wasn't her. Right. But it almost seemed like there was, uh, an unfamiliarity with
14:51the weight class. It almost seemed like she thought maybe they were a little closer together
14:54than maybe they were. I don't know. She don't know. She knows. She knows all that. When I went in
15:01a cage,
15:01uh, to put the belt around her in Leon, uh, that's, that was the first thing out of her mouth
15:07was I want
15:08to fight Dakota. I'll come down 10. She goes up 10. So she knows. Uh, and so that's, look, that's
15:14surprising. What about this sport is the idea of, uh, doing something like that. That could be,
15:19that could be a lot of fun, but I think, you know, I'd like to see Dakota firmly heal. Uh,
15:25and then, and then we'll see what happens from there, but I'd like to see Dakota fighting this
15:28summer and we'll see, maybe we can put together a different fight for Cyborg this summer as well.
15:34We talked a little bit before you, you mentioned a little bit before about kind of the idea of
15:37retaining talent, right? It's a top talent and that kind of thing. There's also the fact that,
15:41you know, between you guys and the UFC, you know, there, that is the, a huge percentage of the top
15:47fighters are signed to one or the other, you know, one of the biggest challenges we've seen
15:52from, you know, that, that's that UFC alternative promotion is luring the, the, the talent over
16:00the battle for talent and, and especially needle moving talent. What can you say about, you know,
16:04this new era's approach to that particular element of the fight game?
16:08You know, I think it's a pretty vibrant ecosystem. When you think about where talent comes from,
16:14if you look at the likes of a Dakota or a Paul Hughes, uh, who came out of, uh, cage
16:20warriors,
16:21I believe in, in Europe, uh, we're always looking for the next new talent. And I think we've now
16:27proven with several people that we've broken out as legitimate elite fighters stars, if you will,
16:33that the PFL has that capability to do that. I'd like to continue to ramp up our ability to do
16:38that
16:39and demonstrate to the world that we can, uh, we can compete with other promotions to, to get talent
16:46where we want it and where we see opportunities. Uh, and I think, so I think you're going to continue
16:51to see the PFL sign fighters out of the UFC. I think the UFC will obviously compete for the fighters
16:57that they want out of the PFL, but there are regional leagues. There's, we have our own leagues
17:02and PFL Mina and PFL Africa. Uh, it's a pretty large ecosystem. And so I don't worry about there
17:10being an absence of talent to put on great fights with great fighters. So, uh, I like our situation
17:19and where we stand as it relates to that. Okay. Now, one thing I did want to talk about, uh,
17:24uh, I've got a couple of things for, you know, for down the road this year, but one more thing
17:28off of Dubai, uh, Ramazan Kurumagamedov, uh, coming out of that one with the welterweight
17:34championship and then stunningly retires just 29 years old. And I don't think anybody saw this
17:39kind of, I don't know if you guys saw this coming or not, but have your two sides kind of
17:43had the
17:43chance to talk since that night and get, get a feel of, of where his head's at. Was this,
17:48is this like a very clear decision or is it kind of something he's maybe not sure about? Do you
17:54know where that thing stands? I haven't spoken to him yet. Uh, I was surprised. I think we all
17:59were surprised. Uh, you know, I think the one thing I want to be very, very respectful of is,
18:05you know, he sustained a, uh, an injury during the fight. And, uh, and, and, and so I think a
18:12lot
18:13of times, you know, you could be emotional in the moment. Um, you know, it was a grueling fight.
18:18I believe Shamil also sustained an injury. These guys both got injured halfway through the fight
18:23and continued to put on an incredibly intense high level elite MMA match, which is 25 minutes.
18:30Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, an intense, intense. So, and they were both previously
18:35undefeated. I mean, they're both amazing fighters. So, uh, I haven't, you know, I figured we'll,
18:41we'll let a little bit of time pass with Ramazan and then approach and find out what he really wants
18:45to do, um, and be respectful of whatever he wants. Um, but I I'd love to see him come back
18:50and
18:51continue to compete. And Shamil, I think also fought a great fight and is a great fighter.
18:56And he's still very, you know, very competitive in that, in that, uh, a hundred and, uh, the
19:02welterweight category. So we'll see. Okay. Okay. So, and obviously now you've got a little bit of a
19:08break here, right there. There's a little break before you guys head out to Madrid on March 20th,
19:13I believe. And then, uh, you know, PFL will be on track for a little bit of a U S
19:17tour following
19:18that there's Pittsburgh on the horizon. There's Chicago. Um, there are some notable MMA sites
19:24that are referring to a Boston event that I don't believe PFL has announced. I don't know if you can
19:28say anything about that or not. I can't, I'm not, I'm not going to announce that yet. Uh, but I'm
19:33really excited to kick it. Look, I let's, I don't want to look past Madrid, the first premium MMA event
19:39to be held in the country of Spain. We've got Costello van Stinas, our champion, a Spaniard at the top
19:45of the card. Uh, and I think that's going to be another really, really exciting card. And I think
19:50the fans are begging for a live event in Madrid and in Spain. So I think that's another great way
19:58that's going to then lead into, as you said, our U S kickoff. And I'm really excited. I'm excited for
20:06Pittsburgh. Uh, I'm excited for that card. Pittsburgh's another area that we heard immediately
20:11when we announced we were going there, the fans were super excited and, uh, and I think we'll be
20:16well-received there. And we've got a great card, you know, Johnny Eblen and Dalton Rasta on that card.
20:21And, uh, so, and then we lead right into Chicago and then we just start rolling. Like the, the summer
20:26is going to be really, really busy. And, and I'm, I'm, you know, I, like I said, this is easily
20:33the
20:33most important year in the PFL history. And, uh, we just have to keep executing at a high level
20:39and, uh, and delighting the fans everywhere we go. And, you know, look, I, I know you don't
20:44want to look past Madrid, but I, you know, we're, we're a U S entity right here. And I do
20:48want to
20:48ask you, you know, kind of what Americans can expect from this new PFL, especially it's not
20:53really made its rounds in the United States as much in recent years. So what can American fight
20:59fans buying a ticket in these cities? Can they expect from this new live experience that you guys
21:05have started, you know, you've mentioned before in other interviews, uh, that's a point of
21:09emphasis, right? It is, you know, one of the things when I considered whether to lead the PFL or not
21:15was I watched a lot of the events on our video and, and, you know, the world tournament that was
21:23here in the U S and the way it was shot, it looked more like a studio show and less
21:27like a big event.
21:29And, and it had, uh, some really great fighters, but none of the fighters really from the old Bellator,
21:35or, uh, which were some previous world champions. And you looked at previously ranked fighters. And
21:40I, I was unaware that the PFL had the elite roster that it did. So my idea was, uh, you
21:49know,
21:49I don't think the UFC is a monopoly in MMA. I think there's room for at least two viable,
21:56successful promotions. And I think there are plenty of places that would be delighted to,
22:01to see an event that is the, of the caliber of what we did in Dubai. And if you go
22:07back a little
22:07bit before that, what we did in Lyon, France in December, uh, and, and, and so, you know, I think
22:13that's, I I'm looking forward to introducing the American fans to the new era of the PFL, which they
22:19previously not been exposed to. And look, I know you're not going to announce anything beyond,
22:25you know, what's already been announced, but I've, I just can't help, but notice that New York has
22:29not been noted yet as a, uh, a destination for PFL. That's our, that's our city, right? I got to
22:35ask here, PFL has been on the calendar in the past years in that new, that old regime, that,
22:40that old way of doing things right. Uh, at the garden theater, what's the likelihood that we get
22:45a PFL return here to the city, maybe at, you know, primary mass square garden or Barclays center,
22:51or even, you know, an unconventional place that I've always thought would be interesting is Arthur
22:55Ash stadium in Queens. Oh, that's interesting. I hadn't even thought of that. Um, yeah, yeah. I've,
23:01I mean, I was there for tennis last summer and I was just like, man, this would actually be pretty
23:04decent for, for an MMA show. It's a nice intimate place. That's yeah, that's, I hadn't thought about
23:09that, but so I would say, stay tuned. Uh, I would love to do something, uh, close to home. Uh,
23:15so
23:15nothing more to report on that, but, uh, I'm aware that PFL was at the, the garden theater before,
23:21but, uh, I think we're, what you'll see in the fullness of our schedules, we're going to make
23:26our rounds to lots of different cities. So that, that was one of my goals to not overly
23:31concentrate in, in one particular area, you know, UFC, uh, has a lot of events in Vegas.
23:37And so want to make sure that we're, we're spreading ourselves out and introducing ourselves
23:41to as many fans as I can. Cause like I said, we're in some respects, we're reintroducing
23:46or introducing, uh, what our product is and what we have to offer. And we know the MMA
23:51category is, is really robust. We know it's really, really hot right now. And, uh, and
23:57I want to just make sure that we start to, to always be in that conversation of elite promotions
24:02when people think about MMA. Sure. Sure. Now I want to circle back again to the, the, the
24:07quote from the beginning, the one that from that statement here, the other part of that was
24:12the leading media companies, right? Media key part here. Uh, as I understand it, PFL is,
24:17uh, you know, they're approaching the end of their time with ESPN on that contract, that
24:22deal to, to broadcast the fights here. What are some of the kind of the key components
24:26PFL is looking for in its next TV partner? Even that one's up, uh, being repartnering with
24:31ESPN. Yeah, look, we have this year is going to be important a year for us with ESPN. Uh, it's
24:36our last year under our current agreement. Um, and, and I, you know, we'll, we'll be sitting
24:43down with them and talking to them about what their needs are. They used to have the UFC now
24:48they don't. Um, you know, I would, I would expect and hope that they want to remain in
24:53the combat sports category. And if so, I think we're the, we're the best partner, uh, to work
24:59with. Uh, and I think from, from my perspective, having a really strong partner in the U S or
25:06potentially globally is critically important as we think about making our company continue
25:11to grow at a rapid pace, right? So what do we want? We want a partner who, um, is invested
25:17in our success. We want a partner who's going to promote us. We want a partner who's going
25:22to market us and we want a partner who's going to pay us more money, uh, obviously for the
25:26rights as well. Um, but that also includes consistent scheduling where, you know, fans can
25:32know how to see us. So the first fight that we had in Dubai in February, uh, we were on
25:39ESPN unlimited. And I can't tell you the number of times anecdotally friends, colleagues, people
25:45were texting me like, Hey, I don't know where to find you. I know that this event is going
25:49on. Where are you? So we have to do a better job of promoting ourselves. We have to do a
25:53much
25:53better job of saying we have an event and everywhere where we say we have an event, it's
25:57like on ESPN, uh, if you're in the U S but, but then we want a partner who is also
26:02going
26:02to be somewhat vested with us to say, no, no, no. We're going to help grow you and promote
26:07you. Look, when, when, when UFC signed their rights deal with, with ESPN, this most recent
26:15go round, that company was worth, you know, a quarter what it's worth now. And a lot of that
26:22growth in value and success and, and, and, uh, awareness is due to ESPN and the power
26:29of the platform. And so, you know, it's, it's incredibly important, but if it doesn't work
26:36out with ESPN, there's, there are other partners who I think would be also very interesting to
26:39sit down and have talks with. And, uh, but this it's, it's, it's critical for a company
26:45like ours that we need, we need a platform that's going to be strong and wants to work with
26:51us. Well, I think we're at the finish line here, but I do want to ask you before we kind
26:54of wrap up there, there's obviously a big announcement this week, a surprise announcement
26:58in the MMA space that both Ronda Rousey and Gina Carano are coming back to, to fight each
27:04other under, uh, Jake Paul's most valuable promotions, right? Had you heard anything about
27:09this fight before it was announced with PFL approach to potentially put this fight together?
27:14We weren't involved in that. Uh, I had heard rumblings. I mean, the industry is a small industry.
27:18I had heard that they were trying to put something like this together. Uh, I wish them well. I mean,
27:24you know, I mean, in some respects, you know, good for them. Uh, uh, and, and from our standpoint,
27:33where we're focused on what we're doing and, uh, but I do think, you know, I do think whenever
27:40anybody's talking about the MMA category, uh, it's not bad for the PFL. In other words, again,
27:46the more people that are, so, you know, in, and Netflix is an incredible platform to attract
27:51casual fans, casual viewers, people that may not otherwise have bought a pay-per-view with back in
27:57the days of pay-per-view or people that would be seeking out to see. So the more fans that
28:01get exposed
28:02to MMA, uh, I think, you know, there could be, there could be some real good rubbing off on that
28:08for the PFL. So, you know, I wish them luck. Um, you know, they, they, they're definitely leaning
28:14into, uh, you know, fights and fighters that are not necessarily in the prime of their career.
28:20Um, but, uh, but I'm focused on, on building out what we're doing. And, and I think you're going to
28:25see us have a lot of traction and momentum this year. Is that to say there wouldn't be any interest
28:29in, you know, you guys have worked with Jake Paul before, you know, there was a contract for
28:33several years. There's no interest necessarily in like co-promoting, maybe showcasing some of your
28:37fighters on a big platform like Netflix as well. I would never say never. Uh, we're interested in
28:43putting on great events and exciting fans. And I have my own relationships at Netflix and, you know,
28:48I was in that business for a long time. So, uh, I think we'd be open to any and all
28:54really
28:54interesting ideas. And, uh, and so, you know, that's not going to take our focus away from
29:00our, our prime mission, which is what we're doing right now. What will we be doing in Madrid next month?
29:05But I would say, you know, never say never. If, if we could be involved in something that
29:10can, that can be a big event and that can delight fans, uh, you know, we'd be, we'd be open
29:15and
29:15willing to, to engaging in and considering anything.
29:20So, um, yeah.
29:23So, um, yeah, I see you again.
29:24You
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