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00:00Hello and welcome to episode 3 of the Traitors Uncloaked, the Visualize Companion podcast with me, Ed Gamble.
00:07This is the show when we hear from all of the Banished and Murdered players first, so spoiler alert.
00:13Please make sure you've watched episode 3 of the Traitors before you watch this, you have been warned.
00:18Coming up on Uncloaked...
00:22Yep, they've got one already.
00:24Banished Traitor Hugo is here to talk about being caught out by his fellow players.
00:29Murdered Faithful Ben joins us to share his experience of the game.
00:32We have the exclusive moment when Ben came face-to-face with Hugo and found out who the Traitors are.
00:38Plus, the secret Traitor is about to be revealed.
00:41We'll be dissecting the mother of all cliffhangers with Celebrity Traitor Kat Burns and Series 3 Faithful Turn Traitor Charlotte.
00:53Welcome, Kat and Charlotte.
00:55Now, before we get into this, because we've got a lot to talk about,
00:58Charlotte, can I ask you about your socks?
01:00Yes.
01:01Look, they say Faithful and Traitor.
01:04Amazing.
01:05How good.
01:05I love it.
01:06I love them.
01:06I just think it's nice to have one foot representing each of my roles in the cast.
01:12And Kat, I like your Traitors.
01:16Now, as Traitors, you are used to being in control in the turret.
01:20That's obviously where you do all of your scheming.
01:22But how are Rachel and Stephen feeling in this moment as the secret Traitor is about to walk through the
01:27door?
01:27No, I'm really jealous because I basically want to go back and be your secret Traitor.
01:31I'm really jealous.
01:32That red cloak.
01:34Unbelievable.
01:34Yeah, it looks, it's pretty, it's pretty swish.
01:37Yeah.
01:38As, as my dad would say.
01:41I don't know, if that was me, I would have just surrendered to the fact that I don't know who
01:45it is.
01:46Yeah.
01:46And then each day we get a shortlist, I would just write down or mentally note down who the shortlist
01:52people are.
01:52And then if I live to see the day that I'd get really, really far in, I'd go, right, well,
01:57I could just whittle it down.
01:59It's probably one of these people.
02:00Yeah.
02:01That could be it.
02:02Like, I wouldn't be stressed going, I need to find out, like, who the, who the secret Traitor is.
02:06Because I just, I think that's what Rachel's doing too much.
02:08She's not playing.
02:09Agree.
02:09Remembering that people might be thinking who, like, who's a Tracer.
02:13Because no one else is thinking there's a secret Traitor.
02:16Because no one else knows there's a secret Traitor.
02:17She's like watching everybody.
02:18And I'm like, no, just wait, just chill out.
02:20There's no point.
02:21She's got enough going on.
02:22Yeah, exactly.
02:23She doesn't need to worry about who the secret Traitor is as well.
02:25Yeah.
02:25We're going to go on a deep dive with all the theories.
02:27Okay.
02:28I do want to know, though, how did we rate Rachel's attempt to get Stephen to the family tree to
02:34do the shortlist selection?
02:36What, like needing to learn some Latin or something?
02:37Yeah, you speak Latin, don't you?
02:39Yeah, I mean.
02:40And Rhys was like, I'll come.
02:41And she was like, oh, man, get away, no.
02:44In fact, Rhys left straight away, just left them in the kitchen.
02:47I know, and then Rhys was like, oh, I don't want to go alone.
02:49Come on, guys.
02:50And she was like, oh.
02:50See, I thought that was quite good, that it was a good excuse to get him to the family tree.
02:55But the bit that really set my teeth on edge a little bit is when she sort of got rid
03:00of Rhys to keep her and Stephen alone.
03:02Yeah, I don't think she should have done that.
03:04And then I didn't Stephen clock it.
03:05He was like, well, now Rhys will literally know.
03:08If they spot.
03:08If it comes down, if it's revealed that the death was done by the family tree.
03:13Let's remind ourselves of that moment when Rachel tries to shake off Rhys.
03:17Such a connection here.
03:20There's a big connection here.
03:22Like, that's very, very dangerous.
03:24Yeah.
03:25Speaking of dangerous.
03:27I've honestly...
03:28I need to give you a heads up on something.
03:31I can go if you want me to go.
03:32I don't mind going.
03:33Will you give me, I want to just...
03:35Of course, of course.
03:35Sorry, sorry, sorry.
03:36No, don't be daft, don't be daft.
03:37Oh, my God.
03:38See, what's interesting about that is she doesn't say, can you go, Rhys?
03:42He does offer that.
03:44But I still think he'll remember that they were by the family tree together.
03:48If indeed someone spots on the family tree that there's those marks on there.
03:52I think it was bad wording.
03:54Either she should have just waited it out until Rhys left and got bored of looking at the family tree.
03:59We should say as well, we know Rhys is a faithful at this point because he's been on a murder
04:03shortlist previously.
04:04Yeah.
04:05So, how do we think they did, Kat, in terms of selecting the people on the portrait?
04:10Do you think they took too long or...?
04:11I don't think she really thought about it because, I guess, statistically, the secret traitor would have picked one of
04:17those nine anyway, so...
04:18I would have just put my finger on the painting and just done a line.
04:22Yeah, just smeared it across and just tried to cover the bases.
04:25And then signed Ross.
04:26Yeah.
04:28I think Rachel is very thoughtful and she is thinking about me.
04:31She does seem quite a good traitor.
04:32I was thinking, if I put my finger in the red paint pot, I'm holding a red glass.
04:37Yeah.
04:37So, no one would be able to see that.
04:38And then she goes and washes the glass and washes her finger at the same time.
04:41It is like watching a sort of murder plot happen with her eyes.
04:43Everything is just down the drain.
04:44Yeah.
04:45Yeah, it's very Agatha Christie, the whole thing.
04:47It is.
04:48What do we make of this pact that Rachel and Stephen made?
04:51The extended hug.
04:52Like, I'm never going to vote for you.
04:54I'm never going to vote for you.
04:55Yeah, too much.
04:57I mean, I can't wait for that to be shown in a flashback moment in, like, two episodes time.
05:03I mean, it's really early on in the game.
05:05I don't think you should be doing that.
05:07I think Stephen especially has shown that if enough heaters on someone, he will dash them.
05:12So, if I were Stephen, I would have been like, of course, I'm not voting your name.
05:17Yeah.
05:18And just cross my fingers behind my back.
05:20Yeah.
05:21Because I would have to vote for her if, like...
05:24Yeah.
05:24To protect yourself.
05:25Exactly, you have to.
05:26So, I think that was, you know, that was sweet that they did that.
05:29But I don't think that...
05:30I don't think either of them believed it.
05:32No, I agree.
05:32I don't think there was any sincerity from either side.
05:35I think it is so early on.
05:37And now we're going to meet another secret traitor.
05:39I mean, I honestly...
05:41I feel like this, with the way Hugo's gone so soon and then the secret traitor,
05:45I could see the traitors at the end being brand new traitors.
05:49Let's talk more about the secret traitor.
05:51I want secret traitor guesses from both of you.
05:54So, we know who it isn't because of the murder shortlists.
05:58Yeah.
05:58Rhys, Maz and James are the ones who are left in the game who we know are faithful.
06:02And obviously, Nettie, Judy, Ben and Hugo are all gone.
06:06Kat, who do you think it is and why?
06:08At first, I thought it was Jade.
06:11Maybe because I just think she's a queen and that she's really fab
06:14and that she'd be great at it.
06:16I also did think it was Ellie because she's a psychologist.
06:24Yeah.
06:24And I just thought that would be amazing for a psychologist
06:26to just be puppeteering everyone and, like, using her degree.
06:30Fiona as well, because she keeps up saying things
06:33that might allude to the fact that she could be one.
06:36Can it be Ross?
06:37It could be Ross.
06:38Ooh.
06:39It could be Ross.
06:39Should I go really left?
06:40No, Ross is in an absolute situation.
06:42He's sweet.
06:42He can't get his words out.
06:43He's just panicked all the time.
06:44Can we briefly understand this Ross Nettie situation of, like...
06:48He didn't articulate himself in the best way when probed about it.
06:52And I think because everyone's just looking at people
06:55in a really suspicious, with a suspicious lens,
06:58and because he didn't word things the way they wanted him to word things,
07:02which is, I think, just what the game is.
07:04You act differently to me.
07:05Totally.
07:06And I think that way is weird.
07:07Therefore, I'm voting for you.
07:08Yeah.
07:08So I think for him, he just was like,
07:10oh, you know, my plan was just to act like I didn't know her.
07:12And then people were like, your plan?
07:13What do you mean your plan?
07:15What if he is the secret traitor?
07:16I think that would be great if he was.
07:18Kat, obviously, this is a great opportunity to play the game at home.
07:21And this would be your first time playing as a faithful.
07:24How does that feel?
07:26I don't like it.
07:29You want control.
07:30It's not fun.
07:30I don't enjoy it.
07:31No, it's fun.
07:33I think it's actually, it's fun to not know,
07:35and it's fun to be with the rest of the world
07:38and be confused as well.
07:39It's fun to not know who a traitor is
07:41without the worry of being murdered.
07:43Exactly.
07:44Exactly.
07:45Okay, now, traitor Hugo and faithful Ben
07:48are about to join the conversation.
07:49But first, it's time to find out what happened
07:52when they came face to face immediately after leaving the game.
07:59Ben!
08:01How are you?
08:02Yeah, good, mate.
08:03Oh, good to see you, mate.
08:04I'm here.
08:08What I want to know is what happened at breakfast?
08:11Well, we twigged it was you.
08:13And obviously, we did take a moment to say
08:15what an excellent, you know, competitor and player you'd been.
08:19Right, okay.
08:19And how sorely you'd be missed.
08:20So that was definitely the feeling at breakfast.
08:22They were very sad that you weren't there.
08:23Right.
08:24I actually think there's five traitors.
08:26That's what I've written down.
08:28I've got three little other suspects,
08:30but they're my five traitors.
08:32My five traitors are Maz.
08:34Yeah.
08:35Amanda.
08:36Yeah.
08:37Ross.
08:38Yeah.
08:39Sam.
08:40Got it.
08:40And you.
08:41Why me?
08:42So you're a barrister.
08:43True.
08:44Right?
08:45We're sitting at the round table,
08:46and I'm looking at you.
08:48Now, you're perfect today.
08:50This was you at the round table.
08:53Ah.
08:55As if you couldn't care about anything that was going on.
08:58I was waiting for people to ask questions.
09:01Not once did you cross-examine anybody at the round table.
09:06Right?
09:07And I thought,
09:08what is going on here?
09:09Right?
09:10So now I want to know,
09:12what were you,
09:13a traitor
09:15or a faithful?
09:17You are a very canny man.
09:21What are you telling me?
09:22You're a traitor.
09:23The devil.
09:25You're a traitor.
09:27Yes!
09:28Get in there!
09:29Congrats.
09:30Get in there!
09:30And it's because you were on to me,
09:32we thought you would never be banished
09:34because you were never a traitor.
09:37Everyone could see you were faithful, Ben,
09:39and that's just a massive compliment to you.
09:41You wore your heart on your sleeve.
09:42You were walking around
09:43trying to find the traitors every day.
09:46Yeah.
09:46So I hope you take it as a compliment.
09:48No, I do. Thank you.
09:48That you had to be murdered
09:50because you would never be banished.
09:51Yeah.
09:52So, Ben,
09:52I bet you want to know who the others were.
09:53Yes, I do.
09:54So, if you reach to your left, sir,
09:59have a look.
09:59It's in there,
10:00the secrets of who the other traitors were.
10:03Oh, this is exciting.
10:05What's it say? Read it.
10:08Hugo.
10:09Oh, you knew that.
10:15Rachel!
10:18Bloody hell!
10:19Now, why are you so surprised?
10:20Oh, she never changed her demeanour at all.
10:23That has really surprised me.
10:24Now, she is canny and under the radar.
10:26When I saw her in the turret,
10:28gee...
10:28I had the same reaction as you just did, Ben.
10:31I thought, no way!
10:32Jesus!
10:33You're so under the radar.
10:35Okay, go on.
10:36And...
10:41Stephen!
10:42Stephen!
10:43Only three.
10:44Well, Ross...
10:46What the hell was Ross doing?
10:48Ross is digging himself a hole so deep
10:51he could play in Traders Australia.
10:54I mean, that man is entirely innocent
10:56and yet has covered himself in guilt, suspicion.
11:01That's why I thought he was a traitor.
11:05And Traitor Hugo and Faithful Ben are with us now!
11:08Hey!
11:09Thanks for having us.
11:10Welcome.
11:11I have to mention the outfits to start with, guys.
11:13You both look fantastic.
11:15Hugo with the crimson velvet tuxedo.
11:19The lining as well.
11:20Oh, a space-based lining.
11:22And Ben, of course, with the blue...
11:25Midnight blue.
11:26Midnight blue, thank you.
11:27Midnight blue velvet tuxedo.
11:29You look fantastic.
11:30And sometimes it's awkward when you turn up
11:31and you're wearing the same thing,
11:32but I think it's really worked for you guys.
11:34Oh, thank you.
11:35Thanks.
11:36Hugo, you're a real Welshman, of course.
11:38Yes.
11:39How does it feel to come face-to-face with Charlotte,
11:41the fake Welsh person?
11:42Wow!
11:43Lost me far!
11:44Ah, shamay!
11:46Shamay, Charlotte!
11:48When they started saying that you were Welsh
11:50towards the end of your departure,
11:52I was like, what?
11:53You didn't sound Welsh at all!
11:55I don't know.
11:55Maybe it's just, it comes and goes.
11:57What did you make of Charlotte's accent on the show?
12:00It was good.
12:00Yeah, it was good.
12:01Because it was low-key.
12:02It wasn't, you know, sing-songy, beautiful Queen Fiona.
12:05You know what?
12:05It had to be,
12:06because although Fiona was everything I ever wanted to channel,
12:09which is like, absolutely amazing,
12:11mother of dragons, that kind of thing,
12:13it takes so much energy
12:15to keep that up.
12:16Oh, for Charlotte,
12:17church was in the room with two.
12:19Massively pared back.
12:21Kat, what did you make of Hugo as a traitor?
12:24How do you rate his efforts?
12:25Do you know what?
12:26I think you did a really good job.
12:31Now, can you say that once more without laughing?
12:33No, no, no.
12:35Ben, I think the speech was,
12:39I think it was when you were like,
12:41whoever did this should not be happy with themselves.
12:46Can we just have a moment?
12:47Because Ben, I was next to him yesterday,
12:49and I was sweating a bit,
12:50but that senior gentleman was giving absolutely everything.
12:54Yeah, yeah, for the mission, he was.
12:55That was a tough mission,
12:56that hill two-thirds of the way through.
12:58Whoever has done that is beyond mean.
13:04I think everyone went,
13:06ooh, I think it's you, sweetie.
13:09To be fair, though,
13:09if you'd done that and been a faithful,
13:11it still would have been suspicious.
13:13Like Kaz, I did a Kaz.
13:14That is literally what I said.
13:16I think it's just drawing too much attention to yourself.
13:18You cannot draw attention to yourself,
13:19and because you are a traitor,
13:21it was like, nah.
13:22Definitely.
13:22You shot yourself in the poop,
13:23big stale, didn't you?
13:24But I was giving you a send-off.
13:27Yeah, mate, you don't need to be so...
13:28It's a funny meeting short, isn't it?
13:29I think it would have been better
13:31if you had done it in a smaller group,
13:33when you were just eating or whatever,
13:35you could have just been like,
13:36oh, do you know what?
13:37Yeah.
13:37Instead of being like,
13:39oh!
13:40But you commanded the attention of the room,
13:42which I think is always a mistake.
13:44Always.
13:44Yeah.
13:44But halfway through,
13:46I thought you've got away with this,
13:47because you said,
13:48didn't Ben do well in the mission
13:49and all of that sort of thing?
13:50And people agreed with you.
13:51They went, yeah, he did really well.
13:53And then when you slipped into the second half
13:55and went, it's beyond mean.
13:57And you just see,
13:58you see a shot of Rachel just going,
14:00oh, my God.
14:01I know.
14:02Yeah.
14:03Ben, we saw that incredible moment
14:05in that clip there
14:06where you accuse Hugo of being a traitor
14:08before he's revealed it.
14:10Yes.
14:10Literally pointing the finger at him.
14:11Yes.
14:12You're a traitor.
14:13Yes.
14:13How did that make you feel
14:14when you found out you were right?
14:15Brilliant.
14:16I got him in a winner
14:17and I knew it was him.
14:18He was at their own table
14:20and every time I looked at him,
14:21he was like this.
14:23Oh, he's off duty.
14:24And I thought,
14:24what is he playing at?
14:25I was off the clock.
14:26I'm a lawyer, right?
14:27The clock wasn't ready.
14:28And then he was gobbing off
14:29left, right and centre to everybody.
14:31Interesting.
14:31what are you doing, mate?
14:32You know,
14:32you're definitely a traitor.
14:35Now, obviously, Ben,
14:36that was a great accusation of Hugo
14:37that we've just seen.
14:39But Hugo,
14:39how did that compare
14:40to being absolutely railroaded
14:43and intensely questioned
14:44by Harriet at the round table?
14:46I was chopped off at the ankles.
14:48I was defeated.
14:48Yeah.
14:49I mean, you know,
14:50yeah,
14:50it was like a machine gun opening up
14:52and there was just no,
14:52there was just no way back to it.
14:54And fair play to her.
14:56I don't know
14:56if she's fallen out
14:57with another barrister in the past,
14:58perhaps.
14:59May have been the motivation,
15:00but the delivery of it,
15:01it was like a missile.
15:03But she's hiding that.
15:03So hats off to her
15:04or wigs off to her,
15:05as we'd say.
15:05Well,
15:06let's remind ourselves of that.
15:07Oh, please, let's.
15:08Oh, yes.
15:10It has occurred to me
15:11from the moment
15:12that I found out
15:14that you were a barrister,
15:15that you would be
15:16a prime target
15:18for the traitors
15:19to take out.
15:20You have experience
15:22at cross-examination,
15:23you're good at presenting
15:24your case,
15:25and you're highly articulate.
15:27So I had in my mind
15:29as I came into breakfast
15:30this morning,
15:31if you had survived,
15:33that really raised
15:34big questions
15:35in my mind.
15:38A number of people
15:39also said
15:40that they were
15:41intimidated
15:42by your professional
15:44position
15:44to take you on.
15:47They are hard facts
15:48as far as I'm concerned.
15:51That was intense pressure.
15:53That must have felt
15:53really intense in there.
15:54Yeah,
15:55at that point,
15:55really.
15:56Yeah,
15:57there's not really much
15:58you could do
15:58about thinking about
15:58the exit
15:59and how you're going
15:59to get out of there.
16:01I mean,
16:01look,
16:01that logic
16:02you cannot deny.
16:04As she said,
16:05you're either a traitor
16:06or the traitor
16:07is going to think,
16:08well,
16:08this guy eventually
16:09is going to do
16:09something useful,
16:10so why didn't
16:11they get rid of me?
16:12So I had a strategy,
16:13which obviously
16:14didn't work.
16:15Well,
16:15first of all,
16:15enjoy the short time
16:17you've got there.
16:17Try and do a couple of,
16:19you know,
16:19mess around a bit.
16:20And second,
16:21be chaotic,
16:21not slick,
16:22because people think
16:23a lawyer's going to be
16:24really professional
16:26and down the line.
16:26That didn't buy me
16:27much time.
16:28And then,
16:28and this was just
16:29such a moonshot,
16:31if I could find a traitor,
16:33I may be one of the only
16:34traitors ever
16:35on this fantastic show,
16:36a traitor genuinely
16:38looking for a traitor,
16:39the secret traitor.
16:40Because as you guys know,
16:41when you are a traitor,
16:43you have to act
16:44like a faithful.
16:44So that was a really good
16:46headspace to be in,
16:48was like looking for one.
16:49Did you have an inkling
16:50in that moment with Harriet
16:51that you were
16:51going toe-to-toe
16:53with a fellow barrister
16:55or ex-barrister
16:56as Harriet?
16:56100%.
16:56I thought that she was,
16:58yeah,
16:59a very senior,
17:00respected lawyer
17:01who we just hadn't
17:02crossed paths.
17:03Or even worse,
17:04perhaps she'd sent me a brief
17:05and I'd, you know,
17:06been against her.
17:07But there was something there
17:08that was not on display.
17:10Just in that moment
17:11when she said that.
17:11That was motivating her.
17:12But then, as I say,
17:13the execution of it
17:14was just...
17:15Outstanding.
17:15Yeah, and she was
17:17telling the truth.
17:18But she's kept it a secret,
17:19her profession.
17:20Yeah.
17:20Did you consider
17:21hiding yours?
17:22I did, I did.
17:23But I thought, again,
17:25go in there
17:25and don't treat it
17:26like a court,
17:27treat it like a stage.
17:28And I was kind of
17:29trying to channel
17:30Phantom of the Opera
17:31meets, you know,
17:32some sort of slapstick.
17:33Sorry, mate.
17:34Is that right?
17:35There was a wonderful moment
17:37in that exchange as well
17:39where you are trying
17:40to dig your way
17:40out of this hole
17:41as Harriet's speaking
17:42and you say,
17:43well, yeah,
17:43a lot of people have mentioned
17:44that I've not been
17:44cross-examining anyone
17:45at the round table.
17:46And Harriet goes,
17:47yeah, I hadn't even
17:48considered that.
17:48But yeah,
17:49that's also part of
17:50my argument against you.
17:51Yeah, well,
17:51I'll have that.
17:52Yeah, thanks mate.
17:55Taxi!
17:55Now, obviously,
17:57Stephen voted for you
17:58at this round table,
17:59turned on you very early.
18:00Did you expect that
18:01to happen so early
18:02in the game?
18:02Look,
18:03traders going to
18:03trait, trait, trait, trait,
18:04trait, trait, trait.
18:05You've got to just
18:05shake it off,
18:06shake it off.
18:08The names for traitors,
18:09we're all traitors.
18:10Yeah.
18:11Of course.
18:12But he didn't have to.
18:13You know,
18:13it's so early on,
18:14he could have voted
18:15for someone else
18:15and it wouldn't be,
18:16I don't think,
18:17suspicious to have
18:17voted for anyone else.
18:19Yeah.
18:19I think he saw
18:19the way it was going.
18:20Yeah, but I think
18:21he was panicking.
18:21I think Stephen
18:22was actually panicking
18:23and he thought to himself,
18:24I'm going to join the Klan
18:25and I'm going to vote.
18:26Yeah, that's a good point.
18:27Because he was under pressure
18:28because of what?
18:29Right, so he's thought to himself, right, I'm going to vote for you.
18:32Yeah.
18:32Then it takes a bit of pressure off me.
18:34Yeah.
18:34And that's what I think he did.
18:36Yeah, I've got no problem with it.
18:37I mean, the best dressed traitor.
18:39I mean, he was...
18:40Oh, yeah.
18:40And his lovely sort of soft voice.
18:42And then he's the brutal killer.
18:44It's just great.
18:45So, obviously, there was a lot of chat about
18:48keeping your behaviour consistent after the trade selection.
18:51I think we are sat with the absolute queen of staying consistent
18:54after the trade selection.
18:56Kat, what do you think Hugo could have done
18:58to maybe stay under the radar, as you did?
19:01I think jobs play a really big part in the game.
19:05Because I'm a singer and I make vulnerable songs,
19:08it's easier for me to...
19:09My disposition to just be naturally calm and quiet.
19:13Because it's hard when you're a traitor,
19:14when you know someone is a faithful,
19:16to go for them and say,
19:17I think you're a faithful because of X, Y, and Z.
19:19And know that they're going to come back and go,
19:21well, I'm not because of X, Y, and Z.
19:22And you know that they're not.
19:24So it's easier.
19:25That's why most traitors will sit back,
19:27because they're like,
19:27I know none of these people are,
19:28so I'm just going to...
19:29So because your job,
19:31people would expect you to speak up and say something
19:33because you didn't, that backfired.
19:35So I think if I was you,
19:36I probably would have tried my hardest
19:39to go for people a bit more
19:41or say theories a bit more
19:43so that people think that you're
19:45actively trying to be in the game
19:47and find a traitor.
19:48Ben, I do want to ask you this.
19:49You mentioned that Hugo is one of your five names,
19:53as we know.
19:53He was number one.
19:54Is he who you would have gone for
19:56at the next round table?
19:58Yes.
19:58Would you have voted for...
19:59Yes, 100%.
20:00Yeah.
20:00Really?
20:01I did, yeah, 100%.
20:03Judy, I changed my mind with Judy, right?
20:06I was actually going to go for Ross, right?
20:09Surprisingly.
20:10But the consensus, the opinion round the table,
20:13I just followed everybody else
20:14because everything that was coming out,
20:16I thought, maybe I'm wrong here,
20:17and it is Judy.
20:18But then it was him.
20:19He was next.
20:20In fact, if I had two votes,
20:22I'd have voted them twice.
20:23Well, it's nothing personal, mate.
20:25I would have killed you twice.
20:32Hugo, after you left,
20:34after you were banished,
20:35we saw Rachel being quite delighted
20:38that you'd been banished.
20:39She maybe said it on two or three occasions,
20:40going, I'm absolutely...
20:41Using the word delighted,
20:42I'm absolutely delighted that Hugo's gone.
20:44How does that feel?
20:45Well, I took the opposite meaning.
20:50No, and those two,
20:52because of the way they're playing it
20:53under the radar,
20:54I think they're a very well-matched,
20:56very good team.
20:57Actually, the three of us,
20:58we got on in the turret.
21:00We never really disagreed.
21:01Well, we didn't have much choice.
21:03You thought you got on.
21:05Yeah, fair enough.
21:06Behind closed doors.
21:07It's the traitors, right?
21:08It is the traitors.
21:08Because I think quite quickly,
21:11Rachel was saying,
21:12Hugo will throw me under the bus
21:14at the first given opportunity.
21:15Rachel didn't trust you straight away.
21:17I messed that up
21:18because I said I'd throw
21:19the secret traitor under the bus
21:21when they came into the thing.
21:22And Rachel picked me up
21:23and said,
21:23well, you're going to do the same to us.
21:24So, you know,
21:25day one, lesson one of diplomacy school.
21:27Yeah.
21:27Don't, you know...
21:29Because you can't trust anyone.
21:31Even if you're team traitor
21:32or team faceball,
21:33you are really just team you.
21:34Yeah.
21:35You can only really look out for yourself.
21:37I think so.
21:37Ben, I want to talk about
21:39your murder a little bit now.
21:40Oh, dear.
21:41What was it like to walk in
21:43and see the dreaded envelope
21:44on the chair?
21:45Oh, what a nightmare that was,
21:46wasn't it?
21:47That was...
21:47But there again,
21:48I've got to say,
21:50I've won by being on that show.
21:53Right?
21:53Whether I was murdered or not,
21:55to be on the show,
21:56I've won already.
21:56Yeah.
21:57So, to see the envelope,
21:58I knew it was part of the game,
21:59but I was absolutely gutted.
22:02And I knew it was him.
22:03I knew,
22:04hands down,
22:05it was him.
22:06I don't even know
22:07why I'm sitting here.
22:07Oh, mate, come on.
22:08Come on.
22:09It's because I hear your point.
22:10And I was absolutely gutted,
22:12but I was thrilled to do the game.
22:14And I think I said that on my exit.
22:16Yeah.
22:17Yeah.
22:17But to be fair,
22:18we wouldn't have chosen that shortlist.
22:20And we did have a choice of three.
22:24So,
22:24and there were four of us,
22:25we know now,
22:26that put you in the frame.
22:27So,
22:27there was two others
22:28you could have picked
22:29rather than me.
22:29Yeah.
22:31Or I'm a quarter guilty.
22:33But you were an amazing detective,
22:35and that's why I was happy
22:36to vote for you.
22:37Because when you asked me
22:38sort of four or five questions
22:39on the bounce,
22:40I thought,
22:40I cannot get anything past this one.
22:42Yeah.
22:43Seriously.
22:43So,
22:43you were an amazing
22:44sort of detective,
22:45investigator character,
22:46I think,
22:47picking up on every little thing
22:48that was said and done.
22:50And you were so nice,
22:51you know,
22:51we had to get rid of you
22:52because you never would have been banished, mate.
22:53Yeah,
22:54I know you said that.
22:54That was really kind of you.
22:55That's true.
22:56Do you think this is truthful
22:57or do you think he's dressing it all up
22:58as a compliment?
22:59I think that bit's truthful
23:00because he actually said that to me.
23:02He says,
23:02I don't think you were ever going to get banished.
23:04And I think that came across
23:06when they were all speaking at breakfast anyway.
23:08Yeah, I think so.
23:08I really appreciated that.
23:10Yeah.
23:10That's the only thing I'll take is pause it.
23:13Oh, well.
23:15Charlotte,
23:16would you have chosen to murder Ben
23:18on that shortlist?
23:18Because the rest of the shortlist
23:19was Rhys and Maz.
23:21It was Maz's second time,
23:22wasn't it?
23:22It was.
23:23On the list of three.
23:23So, to be honest,
23:24I'd probably just be like,
23:25yeah, okay,
23:26two strikes.
23:27Yeah.
23:27But we didn't know in the turret
23:29what was the secret traitor thinking
23:31to put Maz on twice.
23:33In a way,
23:34it protects the secret traitor
23:35because if you keep repetition
23:37on the list,
23:38you're not,
23:39every time they put a new name
23:40on the list,
23:41you know they're not
23:42the secret traitor.
23:43Yeah.
23:43By repeating it.
23:44Yeah.
23:45God,
23:45it's like three dimensions.
23:46No, I know.
23:47I mean,
23:47frankly,
23:48we were saying
23:48they should have repeated
23:49both too.
23:50And then,
23:51you know,
23:51just change one.
23:52So,
23:53I think that's sensible from them.
23:55I would have got rid of Rhys.
23:56Yeah?
23:56I would have kept you in,
23:58Ben.
23:58Yeah.
23:59Oh,
23:59you're so lovely.
24:01Here we are.
24:02But it was the choice
24:05to murder...
24:05I love you,
24:06Kat.
24:06Yeah,
24:07I love you too.
24:07I think they went for you
24:09and I may be wrong,
24:10Hugo,
24:11as well,
24:11because you were the most liked
24:13or the one that everyone thought,
24:15why would you ever kill Ben?
24:16And it causes the most chaos.
24:18Yeah.
24:18That's right.
24:19An earthquake under the castle
24:20and all that kind of thing.
24:21And it did.
24:22It did.
24:22Because it has people
24:23looking in every direction
24:24and then they're all
24:24snapping at each other.
24:25Yeah,
24:26I totally agree with that
24:27because if I'd have been a traitor,
24:29I'd have done the same.
24:30Yeah.
24:30Absolutely.
24:31I'd have looked at,
24:32well,
24:32the person that was,
24:34I'm not saying I was popular,
24:35but the person that was
24:36kind of under the radar
24:37that was quite nice,
24:39I'd have been Dame.
24:40Yeah.
24:40Without a doubt.
24:42Okay,
24:42Ben and Hugo,
24:43I have to get both of your thoughts
24:44on the twist of the century,
24:46which is,
24:46of course,
24:46the secret traitor,
24:47which you were party to
24:49at the moment we find out
24:50about the secret traitor,
24:51Hugo.
24:52But Ben,
24:53I mean,
24:53you're obviously just finding out about it
24:54as you watch the show go out.
24:56Yeah.
24:56Yeah.
24:57We know that Maz is a faithful,
25:00but can I get your reasons
25:01as to why you suspect
25:02the other players
25:03that you put on your list,
25:04please?
25:05Because obviously
25:06one of them could be
25:07the secret traitor.
25:08You've got Amanda,
25:09who you suspected.
25:10Yeah.
25:11Why do you think
25:11she might be a traitor?
25:12Amanda,
25:13Amanda to me,
25:14was very,
25:15she was very inquisitive.
25:16She was like,
25:19like a lawyer,
25:20I suppose,
25:20or a barrister
25:21or detective
25:22or something like that.
25:22She was questioning
25:24and everything that was going on
25:25and I thought,
25:25right,
25:26okay,
25:26why is she doing that?
25:27And she was having a go at you
25:29quite a lot,
25:29wasn't she?
25:30Right?
25:31She's not all bad.
25:32And I thought,
25:33right,
25:33okay,
25:33I'm going to give you
25:34the benefit of the doubt here,
25:35but I've still got this 10%
25:36about you
25:37that I'm not fully covered with.
25:39Yeah.
25:40So that was kind of her.
25:41Such an amazing moment
25:42at breakfast as well
25:43when they all start talking
25:44about how funny it would be
25:45if there was
25:46a secret detective in there.
25:47Yeah.
25:48And she just has to sit there like...
25:50Yeah.
25:52You also suspected Ross.
25:53We know that there was
25:54a lot of suspicions
25:55around Ross.
25:55Oh, Ross was really...
25:57Is that mainly because
25:58of the Nettie situation
25:59and how he reacted to it?
26:00Yeah,
26:01it was a Nettie situation
26:02and then if you watch it back
26:03when Judy goes,
26:05right,
26:05now everybody goes,
26:06oh,
26:07like that.
26:08Ross is,
26:09whoa!
26:10Right,
26:10if you watch his reaction
26:12and I thought,
26:12that's a bit over the top.
26:13So that's why
26:14I was heading down his route.
26:16Well,
26:16I think we can agree
26:17that the secret traitor twist
26:19is gigantic.
26:20It's one of the biggest twists
26:21that's ever been on the show.
26:22Yeah.
26:22Hugo,
26:23you referred to it
26:23as feeling like middle management.
26:25Yes.
26:26When Claudia told you
26:27what was happening.
26:28How did you feel
26:29that moment
26:30when Claudia
26:31let you know
26:32that someone else
26:32would be feeding you
26:33the shortlist every night?
26:34I wanted a direct report
26:35to my queen of darkness.
26:38It was really annoying
26:40because I wanted
26:41to kill Fiona,
26:42for example,
26:42because I couldn't lie to her
26:43because she was just
26:44like lying to my mum
26:46or my biggest sister
26:46and I just couldn't lie to her
26:47so I wanted her gone.
26:49And just not to have
26:50the freedom at all
26:51to be dictated to
26:52by someone else
26:53and we couldn't even
26:54figure out
26:54if the secret traitor
26:56was trying to help us
26:57or just look after themselves.
26:58We really were all at sea.
26:59I think they're probably
27:00just trying to look
27:01after themselves.
27:01I think that makes sense.
27:02As a lover of the game,
27:04it's genius.
27:04It is now three-dimensional
27:06traitors, isn't it?
27:07But yeah,
27:07in the moment
27:07it was annoying.
27:09And the red cloak.
27:10I'm sorry,
27:10but I never thought
27:12the green cloak
27:12would look inferior.
27:14Oh, thanks.
27:15I want to wear
27:16that red cloak.
27:17We now know
27:18that the secret traitor
27:19is going to rejoin
27:20the traitors in the turret.
27:21But you had no idea
27:22what was going to happen
27:23in the future,
27:24whether you would ever
27:24know who the secret traitor is.
27:26Right,
27:26you don't know how
27:27it's going to play out.
27:27You don't know
27:28whether that hierarchy
27:29that you talk about
27:29is going to be there
27:30sort of constantly.
27:31Yeah.
27:31Yeah,
27:32so it was completely baffling.
27:34Hugo,
27:34what's it like
27:35watching Rachel and Stephen
27:36navigate the game
27:37now you're gone?
27:38Are you going to be
27:39rooting for them
27:39or will you be delighted
27:40if there's a downfall?
27:42No,
27:42I wish them all the best.
27:43I think they were playing it
27:44absolutely properly
27:46and they're both
27:47very canny,
27:48smart people
27:48and they're both
27:49lovely people.
27:50Yeah,
27:51we were all traitors together
27:52and I would have taken
27:53the first opportunity
27:53to knife them in the front
27:56with alacrity.
27:57Yeah.
27:58Now,
27:58we're out of time
27:59for part one,
27:59but we'll keep chatting
28:01over on BBC Sounds.
28:02I'm going to ask Hugo
28:03who he would have murdered next
28:04and we'll find out
28:06if Ben told Claudia
28:07he wanted to be a tracer
28:08or a faithful.
28:09Plus,
28:09there'll be more
28:10from Charlotte and Kat.
28:11It's all in your bonus episode
28:13of Uncloaked
28:13which you can hear right now.
28:15Just scan the QR code
28:16on the screen
28:17and listen
28:17as you get ready for bed.
28:19I'm back on Wednesday night
28:20straight after episode four
28:21with all the reactions
28:22to that secret traitor reveal.
28:24It's a huge moment.
28:25Who's it going to be?
28:26Big thanks to Kat,
28:27Charlotte,
28:28Hugo and Ben
28:29and to you at home
28:30for watching.
28:30I'm Ed Gamble.
28:31Stay faithful.
28:36Find out who the secret traitor is
28:38Wednesday night at eight
28:39on BBC One.
28:40Press red now
28:41for match of the day
28:42highlights of today's
28:43four Premier League games
28:44on iPlayer
28:45ahead of the main show
28:46at 10.30
28:46and even in the darkest places
28:48there's still room
28:49for hope,
28:49understanding and change.
28:51Brand new drama
28:52waiting for the out
28:52here next.
28:55You're welcome.
28:56I'm Ed Gamble.
28:56I'm Ed Gamble.
28:59I'm Ed Gamble.
29:01I'm Ed Gamble.
29:02I'm Ed Gamble.
29:02I'm Ed Gamble.
29:02I'm Ed Gamble.
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