- 2 days ago
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00:00All right, ladies and gentlemen, let's keep this party going.
00:06You knew what you were getting yourself into when you decided to come on the road.
00:09Get out of my clothes.
00:10I'm going to take everything except your bra and your man.
00:17She's inside a Mariah.
00:19You can't take it because she's strong, beautiful, and black.
00:30Hey, everybody.
00:38My name is Jeff Johnson, and I am honored to be here to talk to the men of the United States versus Billie Holiday.
00:44And if you haven't seen the movie, you are definitely missing something.
00:48As a fan of Billie Holiday, I was blown away by this film.
00:53The storytelling was incredible.
00:55I think we got to see a side of her that, unfortunately, history hasn't always told.
01:01And so beyond her complexity, there was a group of brothers who elevated the complexity of black men.
01:08I was inspired.
01:09I was horrified.
01:10I loved some of these brothers.
01:12I hated some of them.
01:13And I think that's what you're supposed to do.
01:15And I'm excited about this conversation.
01:18Not just talking to them about the roles that they played and how they did or didn't connect to them, but really talking about the complexity of us as black men and how it was elevated within this story in particular.
01:32And so I'm honored to have with me Brother Tervontae Rhodes, who played Jimmy Fletcher, to have Brother Rob Morgan, who played Louis McKay, Tone Bell, who played John Levy, Miss Lawrence, who played Miss Freddie, and Mr. Tyler James Williams, who played Lester Perez Young.
01:51Welcome, y'all.
01:53So let's dive right in.
01:55And I mean, this this is I always think it's I always think it's sometimes more challenging when you're in a film that is directly connected to history, to a actual person who actually lived, who people know and sometimes don't know.
02:14And so as you even as you thought about taking this role and being a part of this, what resonated most for you when it came to your character?
02:25And how did you prepare for the role? And so so Tone, let's start with you.
02:30Oh, OK. Oh, you're coming straight to me, huh?
02:32Straight to you.
02:34Miles, a little different. I joined a little later, I joined the cast a little later.
02:38I guess everybody had been shooting for about a month before, maybe even a little longer before I got involved.
02:43I had sent a tape in, you know, during the audition process, probably a few months before everybody got started on set.
02:51And then Lee called me kind of out of the blue. There was a there was a change he wanted to make, something he saw different.
02:57And he called me on a Friday and just I mean, he called me on a Friday night and was like, hey, I want you to take a look at this and then call me back Saturday.
03:03Let me know if you can do this different than than I know your work.
03:07So like it's different for you. So I mean, kind of taking on that challenge.
03:11You might have much time. I had about, you know, 36 hours to like hop on the plane, get there.
03:15And and day one, he put me to work. It was beneficial that that the day I met Andrew is the day we were shooting Levy meeting Billy.
03:25So we had a kind of kind of organic introduction.
03:29So it was that was nice. And then, you know, you know, I had to drop drop trow real quick in the lead.
03:37Lee knew what he wanted. You know what I mean?
03:39So I'll just, you know, being a team player, hopper right in and just, you know, trying to become a part of his family that had already gelled.
03:44But I think what kind of interested me in the first place is just because this is something I've never done.
03:49Being being attached to a project like this and and knowing how fruitful is going to be with a vision like Susan Lloyd Parks and Lee had.
03:57And I'm glad I got a chance to be a part of it because 95 percent of what I do is normally comedy.
04:01So this so this was a nice this nice change up and working with this this great group of brothers here was was was amazing.
04:07Well, Robin, for you, I mean, how did how did you connect with Louis McKay?
04:12Oh, man, Louis McKay, from what the research that I was able to do, he seemed like a brother that was like pulling from strings of any which way to make a dollar type thing.
04:26They had a gangsta background, you know, kind of guy enforcer background, you know, that stuff.
04:34So I just figured, man, you know, like every brother out here in America, man, living under an oppressed feeling, but yet trying to navigate and connect the dots that we can get through each day.
04:46You know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you can do that by either getting smarter and going to school and getting scholarships or you can do that by holding up liquor stores with a BB, you know, me is how you're going to do it.
05:02So I put Louis McKay in the middle of that because he had to have some language to even be in the places that Billie Holiday would be in my research.
05:11From what I understood, like within weeks of the meeting, like he was her manager, you know, he was her lover.
05:19She entrusted him with a lot. So I kind of figured what kind of brother would have that kind of swag, what kind of brother would have that kind of confidence.
05:28And and at the same time in the script, he's parading around with these white women, too, at the same time, you know, so to be that kind of bolder brother, I just connected to the side of the brother that that is basically the Brooklyn cat on the block trying to make ends meet.
05:47And this is the only way he knows how. And it just so happened that his his big hook was Billie Holiday.
05:54Well, and I appreciate you talking about that, because I want to get to the point where how much of how much of this do you all think was Billie falling for and how much, like so many of the brothers in the film, was this just about her own hustle?
06:07And so I want to talk about that a little bit. But but but but Miss Lawrence, I'm interested, like you play Miss Freddie.
06:14And I think there could be a misperception that like you directly relate to Miss Freddie.
06:19And I'm curious about two things like one, what pronoun do you think Miss Freddie would have self identified as?
06:27And then two, what would you find most personally revealing about about playing this character in this time?
06:36So I don't I don't think it's a misconception.
06:43I think that Miss Freddie and myself being Miss Lawrence, I think we share a kindred spirit as it relates to being nonconformist, being gender nonconformist.
06:54And Miss Freddie, like myself, we understand that our my first anyway, and I'm sure I would imagine that it was for Miss Freddie as well.
07:06My first healthiest relationship was with black women and that would be my mother.
07:11And I'm you know, I don't know what Miss Freddie's childhood was like, but judging the relationship between Miss Freddie and Billie Holiday was one to be admired.
07:22Miss Freddie was one of the male figures in her life that showed up and didn't want anything but to love her, to edify her and to affirm her.
07:33And that was through his art and what he did with fashion and beauty.
07:38And that helped her imagine herself in the best way in how she projected herself into into the world and vice versa.
07:49And I'm sorry, the reciprocal of that is is is Billy allowed Miss Freddie to just be and exist the way that he saw himself.
07:58And, you know, lending Miss Freddie her fur coats and some of her wardrobe for Miss Freddie to go out and play in the streets and risk being, you know, arrested by police officers and of course being ridiculed by society.
08:13Billy was not did not judge Miss Freddie for that.
08:18They had a mutual respect, love and desire to protect one another.
08:22And I think because of my experiences in life, I think that is where we do mirror each other.
08:28I think that is where we do mirror each other.
08:31So I wouldn't say that it is a misconception.
08:35What I will say is that it is a revelation to a lot of people.
08:40And, you know, in terms of the pronouns, Miss Freddie was called Miss Freddie.
08:46That's what we got it from. He wasn't, you know, wasn't something that was made up.
08:50I got I started going by Miss Lawrence, not because it's something that I made up.
08:55It was something that black women from me being in the beauty industry for over 20 years started calling me.
09:00And I think it was because I've always been very in tune with my feminine side and embraced it.
09:07And I found I found a lot of peace there.
09:12I shared that with with the people in my life.
09:15And I think the the resemblances to women when it comes to they just started calling me Miss Lawrence.
09:22And obviously we look at Miss Freddie just by the descriptions of what of how Billy described him in some of her writings.
09:31I would it makes sense for her and the people to call him Miss Freddie, you know, you said something.
09:40And and I really want Tyler for you to weigh in on it.
09:44You talked about the fact that this relationship with Miss Freddie was one of the only relationships with with a man that wasn't trying to take something from her.
09:54But but I think that that her relationship with Lester Perez Young in the film was was similarly connected in that.
10:02And Tyler, I'm interested for you. Is there a power in this relationship that that she doesn't have in some of her love relationships?
10:10And and how how did that play out for you not only as a character, but in you as a man processing the complexity of this relationship versus this multitude of romantic relationships?
10:27Yeah, I think you're correct. I think there is a power that they both had in this relationship.
10:32I think there's something that's incredibly freeing when you find, you know, a man and a woman in a platonic friendship that is just that with no incentive on the other side.
10:43There's a certain amount of vulnerability that they can have with each other that, you know, you won't find necessarily a lot of times.
10:49And even some of your romantic relationships is aspects of your romantic partners that you just don't want to know parts of you that way.
10:55They don't want you to know certain things, particularly with, you know, masculinity standards and femininity standards of the time.
11:00So there was a certain amount of. I would say quiet, calm power that they had with one another to be authentic and know that this person is here simply because they support me and that they love me, not because they're trying to take anything from me.
11:14You know, we're talking about this movie takes place in the late 40s into the 50s, where, you know, for black people in general, life was a struggle and everyone was hustling and trying to work an angle, much like Rob was talking to.
11:26So people were using each other, you know, not just consciously, but I think in a lot of ways, unconsciously.
11:31So for the two of them to find that safe space within each other, I think was incredibly validating and powerful.
11:38And for me, you know, I think it's something I began to hyper focus on as a man afterwards of just like, you know, how many relationships have I had that?
11:51I have not given the time to explore the freedom and its platonic ness and just assumed that it had to be something else.
12:01And how much am I taking from myself when I do that?
12:05Well, too, because I want you to build on that a little bit. Right.
12:08Because there's also this amazing opportunity to create that relationship when your partner's in passion and they have this passion for music and expression and and freedom and power in that and sharing in that.
12:21And so have have you even allowed yourself to process as you thought about that, how sometimes it's it's the passion itself that allows there to be almost this love affair that doesn't require romance because we both love the music or we both love the art or we both love the service.
12:40It's something that is actually interesting to bring this up now, the weekend after, you know, Andrew wins the Golden Globe and I think it's something that tone and I we experienced together in the room.
12:54I don't think I realized the power of that passion until after that win and the two of us, we looked at each other and we broke down.
13:03Jimmy, we broke down because we had as a cast fallen in love with each other over the passion of getting the story out and seeing Billy story told accurately and seeing this woman who had poured her all into this role win and be recognized for that.
13:20So I I don't think I did process it up until that moment.
13:25And that's probably what sparked that overflow of emotion is not realizing how strong of a love there was for everyone who was a part of this project until we had this kind of this this release that was, you know, for I think all of us would felt like this strong victory.
13:42I want to bring you in on this brother because your FBI character of Jimmy Fletcher was complex to say the least in navigating like various levels of personal conflict.
13:57And so I'm wondering, did you see him as more as more a conflicted villain that fell in love with a mark or did you see him more as a conflicted lover that did a job he didn't really want to do?
14:14I saw him more as a man trying to prove himself to himself and in the midst of that discovering who he was through someone else and falling in love with that person because of it.
14:38And that just made it, you know, being a black man is a complex thing in the world.
14:44You know, I mean, so and then falling in love, just walking into that situation on top of already being conflicted about yourself.
14:53Just, you know, just kind of adds that extra layer of abstraction.
15:02You know what I mean?
15:04Was was that was that for you something you searched for as you studied the role or is that something you pulled from in some of your own trajectory as a man?
15:16A little bit of both. I think for me, whenever I try to, I guess, take on a role, I try to find what is most.
15:25I mean, you know, what's most similar to me and what's most, I guess, similar to the person I think I want to be to try and I guess feel it out a little bit, essentially.
15:42And so with Jimmy, it was interesting because initially when I got the script, it was right after I finished shooting bird boxes a couple of years ago.
15:53And, you know, so we read a couple of books and then through reading a few books, we found just just in what wasn't said and what was kind of just in his I guess just in his demeanor in the conversations that he had.
16:11Yeah, I understood like I understood him.
16:15He reminded me of my grandfather. So I understood what he understood what he wasn't saying.
16:20And so that's something that I presented to Lee. And so we were able to kind of then, you know, kind of mold this character and kind of add again, kind of like a rock old man, just like layer the colors on there.
16:34So like you see this color that's like, you know what I mean?
16:39I'm curious. And this is actually volume. I mean, Rob, I want to direct it to you.
16:43But like, you know, you and Trevante's character were fighting over Billy throughout the film.
16:49One of the things that was was interesting for me was it was it was it was lifted as if y'all were fighting over the love of Billy, but I kept feeling like y'all just fighting over each other's ego.
17:03And as I think about how often as as young men, we aren't really taught to love women, we're taught to possess them.
17:14And and I'm curious about how you all process that even in trying to play the role was this was this about love or was this about my ego and possession?
17:26So Trevante real quick, you can go first, but I just glad that they made it look like I whipped his ass in the movie.
17:33Even though when we shot it, Lee got such joy out of looking at Trevante with my ass more than a few takes.
17:42So, all right, now go ahead.
17:44I was going to say, man, I felt like I at least I felt like Jimmy at least through maybe falling in love with Billy was possibly the one or at least attempted to be someone who tried to show her what, you know, essential what real love could be.
18:09You know, that's what I felt, especially in, you know, in the in the intimate scene, like that's what the turning point was.
18:17It felt like it felt like that's what was so beautiful about that scene to me.
18:21I felt it felt like it started out as one thing because that's what she was used to.
18:25That's what she wanted. But in the middle of it, it was like, yo, we're at this point now where we're we're actually in love.
18:32We need to at least attempt to try and do this properly.
18:36And then that's when, you know, they broke up because she couldn't do that.
18:39I believe our two characters showed the complexities and Billie holidays and what she recognized as love through her experience coming up.
18:48What was shown to her is love, like Javonte just said, just to piggyback on that, he was his character was more on a connecting intimate approach to lovemaking compared to my character was more like Iron Fist impression in the movie.
19:10It seemed that she was more attracted to the heart of style love that my character, Lewis McKay gave her and was unrecognizable to what Javonte's character, Jimmy Fletcher was trying to give her.
19:22And and do my conversations with some of my homegirls.
19:26Unfortunately, in today's era, it seems like that's some of the things that is still attractive in a lot of relationships.
19:36I guess they call it now the toxic relationship.
19:40That's the hot word now, you know, but that was the 1920s version.
19:46You know what I mean?
19:47But I'm still I'm curious, right?
19:49Because we were talking about vulnerability.
19:52Yeah.
19:53And I'm curious if if I understand how the story is written and I understand how we're processing the complexity of humans and the complexity of relationships.
20:04But even as we use stories to create social commentary and have new conversation, did y'all see this as love?
20:14I think even as you talk about that, quote unquote, toxic love, it's is we're embracing certain archetypes and embracing certain men, either because it makes us feel safe or because that's what we're used to.
20:29But at some point, we all trying to call out, is this shit really love, though?
20:33Yeah.
20:34And I wonder if we ask a pro-black heroin user today what their description of love was or would be.
20:42I wonder if it would mirror what we're showing in this movie.
20:45Hmm.
20:46Hmm.
20:47I'm open to hear from from some of you all.
20:51Well, I think, too, there's a there's a I think Trevante put it put it pretty well.
20:56But I think that the way Billy grew up and how she I guess maybe the lack of being nurtured.
21:04And so that characteristic of what Jimmy was trying to give her, that didn't exist.
21:10You know, you can you can you can try to push that button, but now it's time to push away where I'm not used to this kind of relationship.
21:17So that's taking my power away. So there's a different kind of willingness, I think, for what she can handle.
21:24And it's the it's the rough discourse is the it's the it's the verbal abuse is the it's the I can do it all by myself and push you away.
21:36And then that chasing and unfortunately, like a lot of men, a lot of black men prefer that chase more so than than than what Jimmy was trying to show her after he fell in love with it.
21:47You know, and she's so not used to that, that she can't handle it.
21:50So she pushes that away, too. So I think and like Rob said, I think that still happens quite often now.
21:57I think in a lot of ways with with men, especially especially black men, they've we've had challenges or insecurities showing our love the way that the way that we should.
22:16And I think especially back then in the 40s and 50s, you know, men were very hesitant about showing allowing love to show up the way that it should, especially as it relates to the relationship with women.
22:30And I think a lot of that stems from the false ideologies of patriarchy.
22:36And I think I think the man, especially Jimmy Fletcher.
22:43Fletcher, he wanted he loved her from the beginning.
22:47He loved her from the beginning, but because of who he was and his his position and his quest for what he wanted in the world.
22:57This to me, he didn't allow it to show up at first.
23:01And I think the same goes with, you know, with with all of the guys, except except Lester.
23:07I think Lester Lester definitely showed her all the love from from day one.
23:12You know, Lester was definitely one of those jewels for her and safety nets.
23:18I think in a lot of ways, you know, what we're talking about is, you know, you I think you mentioned it, Jeff, where black men, I think just men in general are not taught to love without possession and to love without domination.
23:34And I think that this era of man and even into the modern era of man does not know how to separate love from domination.
23:43I don't think that it's it's a coincidence that, you know, all the men in Billy's life in this film, except for Jimmy Fletcher up until a certain point, eventually controlled and dominated her career as well as her life.
24:00And I think we're seeing this interesting, you know, pull where you're watching Jimmy realize how much that's actually affected Billy's life and how that is not an effective way to love her.
24:13He's finding a blind spot in the midst of this.
24:17And like Devontae was mentioning from that intimate scene of him seeing and identifying the spot and being like, this is something that can be cultivated and can be nurtured here.
24:25And I think it kind of speaks to the grander conversation of, you know, the the the love of our grandfathers and the love of our fathers and their fathers and how we're not necessarily taught how to love without dominating something.
24:40And these men didn't necessarily know how to divorce those two.
24:45Yeah. And it wasn't as if we were living in a time where we knew what the hell emotional intelligence was or or or black men even had the room to feel sometimes without being a mark was within their own circle or or by white folks.
25:02And so I acknowledge that I'm curious, though, because there's something you said that that Billy was just such this bright light and it was almost as if she was the sun and all of these people around this solar system were trying to pull warmth from her.
25:22But there wasn't anybody pouring warmth back in. And as you think about the modern era, because this isn't just about the men in this movie, but this is about black men in general.
25:36Have we seen a shift where you see brothers that have a level of confidence in standing next to a powerful black woman without having to to shade that shine to lift theirs?
25:54And what does that look like in your own lives?
25:58That's what I think it's about the circles you move in and the people you decide to put that kind of focus on because plenty of brothers out here upstanding with with sisters and elevating them and supporting them to the highest degree.
26:14But do they get their shine or if they get their shine, then they get their shine under the word and entanglement instead of like acknowledging giving them their flowers for how they've been strong and supportive for years.
26:27You know what I mean? Then that's when the relationship gets attention.
26:30So I think that's a conversation us as a community to have as far as what we choose to recognize, because we have a tendency to generalize a lot as black people.
26:41I'm generalizing now. See, we have a tendency to generalize a lot.
26:48And I think because I was guilty of it, I'm still guilty of it. You know what I mean?
26:52And then you have to stop and pause and say, OK, well, look at my see Tom Bell.
26:57I see my man, Tyler Trevante, Miss Freddie.
27:00You know what I mean? It's Lawrence. But you play it.
27:03That's what I wanted to say. Miss Freddie. Yo, Miss Lauren.
27:05I love how you play two different sides of that character.
27:09All right. So thank you. So independent.
27:12I was hoping we was going to talk about that, too.
27:14But let me just say that's what's been in my mind to tell you.
27:17So that's why I said that right there. Thank you.
27:19But yeah, brother, you did that great, too, man.
27:21The way you did that. I think that's what we need to do as a community is start looking at our circles and saying, all right.
27:29I choose to acknowledge this before I generalize and put us all in that that that hope.
27:35I mean, to cut you off. No, you're good, brother.
27:38I think. And I guess maybe even to kind of.
27:41Piggy back off of that, I think, at least I hope my generation of brothers, man, kind of unfortunately, fortunately, we grew over single mothers, you know what I mean?
27:56So all I know is a strong black woman.
27:59That's what's filled me, my mom, my grandmother.
28:02So to see a black woman be at the forefront of everything is what I want to see.
28:10You know what I mean? That's that's what we and that's what it's for, man.
28:14I come from the homie, you know what I mean? I'm from Benin.
28:16We had the, you know, in Black Panther, the warrior women.
28:20That's that's that's my tribe.
28:22So that's what we fought. You know what I mean?
28:24So, yes, it's a beautiful time right now.
28:29I think we're seeing it popularized more than anything.
28:33I think there's always been that to a certain extent.
28:36But we're in this now new modern era, particularly social media and all that, where we can make it popularized and pop, you know, as black people have always influenced pop culture.
28:45I feel like that's kind of what we're doing.
28:47You're seeing, you know, these examples come forward of black men who can speak to what Rob and, you know, Trevante was saying, who can show that on a public platform.
28:59I grew up in a household with a black man who fully supported his wife and was really the head of our household.
29:05And saw that with cousins and uncles. But when I think about it, how often did I see that in popular media?
29:11Not very often. So I think that's what the change is that's happening now is now we're finding ways to push it out into the grander conversation and make it popularized.
29:22So we can actually, I guess, not necessarily weed out, but minimize anything else.
29:28Well, and to Rob and to Rob's point, just keep raising the complexity so that we're not making these assumptions that things are just one way or the other.
29:37Exactly.
29:38There really is this, this spectrum, which I think was, was really, I appreciate Rob, you setting up the next question, was to Ms. Lawrence about, I also loved, anytime we're challenging this notion about what masculinity is or isn't.
29:56And I thought you just did an amazing job of elevating the complexity of masculinity in a way that, and I hate to say this because now it's like, Rob, I'm generalizing, that the hardest, typical, antiquated masculine man could see himself in you.
30:22That there was, that there was a level of strength in masculinity that was very traditional in the midst of this character that didn't subscribe to that idea of masculinity.
30:33And so I'm, one, how intentional was it for you to just own pieces of that and elevate who he actually was and how much of that was, yo, so much of this is just me.
30:47And, and I want to push this complexity so that people can see that where you say you lie on the spectrum doesn't mean you don't possess the entire spectrum.
30:58Correct.
30:59Correct.
31:00You know, I think, I think we just as a society need to really redefine what, what masculinity is.
31:06For so long, masculinity has been reduced to men's physical, men's, their, their disposition in this world.
31:17Um, and it's not, it's not, it's not just those things.
31:21It's masculinity can be, can be very, can be very soft.
31:26It's vulnerable.
31:27It's showing love.
31:29It's emotional.
31:30It's all of those things.
31:31And so, um, I have all of those things.
31:35I love, I love my, my brothers.
31:38I love my, my sisters, my mothers, my fathers, um, and, and, and all in the same way, you know, and I don't think it should be, I think we have to stop and relearn or unlearn the way that we, um, bifurcate our love and how we show it to, you know, this, this, this type of person versus this type of person.
32:03You know, I want, I want us to, uh, be able to share a message or I want my, my, my, my, uh, purpose or my, you know, what I wanted to do was make sure that we share a message that, you know, I can show up or Ms. Freddie can show up in this woman's life and be a protector as well, but not want to be intimate with her, you know, um, you know, but, but still serve as a male figure.
32:33You know, if, if that makes sense, it makes perfect sense.
32:36Real quick, real quick.
32:39We're talking about masculinity.
32:40I love to bring up the example of Prince.
32:43We always say masculine, masculine, masculine Prince will put on some high heels, a blouse, and he will get up out of his grave and walk through this damn chat box.
32:52We are right now.
32:53All of our ladies right now.
32:56Right.
32:58He can damn near decompose and everything, but Prince can do that right now.
33:02You know, you know, Prince was the epitome of, of gender non-conforming.
33:08A lot of people think that when we hear these, this term now, our, our gender fluid, that it strictly speaks to someone that is gay or someone that is trans, you know, people like Prince says, I'm not going to subscribe to what society says a man or woman should look and act like.
33:26Now you have people like myself, that is a gay gender non-conforming individual.
33:31There are, again, people like Prince, there are the CeeLo Greens, there are the, you know, the Andre 3000s, there are the Rick James, there are, you know, so many people that embody that.
33:42But for whatever reason, when someone is actually gay and they show up in that same way as a gender non-conformist, that is when the conversation kind of goes sour around what we look like and how we mirror each other in a lot of ways.
34:00There's also a reality, too. And I think y'all know black men have the lowest life expectancy of any demographic in America.
34:07We got the highest levels of toxic stress. We got the highest levels of anxiety.
34:11And so much of that is because we've been told we can't be full people.
34:15So so so manhood in the traditional sense is don't smile too much or you goofy as hell.
34:22Don't laugh too much or, you know, it's going to act like you ain't been there before.
34:27Don't love because you don't want nobody to play you. And all of these things is the shit that makes you human.
34:32And so it's not an issue of not feeling.
34:37In fact, having those emotions is what actually makes you a man and alive.
34:42And so I just want to we don't have a lot of time. I want to ask you all this.
34:46I was really struck by how this film did an amazing job of elevating Billy's strength,
34:56because I think there's so much narrative around her addiction, so much narrative around her weakness,
35:03so much narrative around what men did or did not do to her, but not a lot of narrative about her power,
35:10her commitment, her vision. And so I'd love for each of you to just give us some quick closing thoughts
35:17around what is Billy's narrative for you?
35:23What what did you learn about her through this character that you play?
35:29And what would you say to Bill about what would you say to someone about Billy now that you wouldn't have said before this movie?
35:35Tony, let's start with you.
35:39Yeah, I well, one, I think I've learned a lot, one from the script, two from the movie itself,
35:45talking to Lee, learning this cast of people and just diving into I mean, I remember hearing this song Strange Fruit in the car with my mom in high school.
35:55And every time I heard it after that, there was a better picture painted of it,
36:01getting more into the lyrics and the feeling behind the song and then kind of coming into watching the movie coming out.
36:08And the visual that's behind the first time we really hear Strange Fruit and we and we get that visual is it just does something else to you.
36:16It does something else to you. And it makes you look at Billy's efforts,
36:20her continual efforts like. It's so unbelievable,
36:25and she should have been celebrated long before this and not that she hasn't.
36:32But I mean, I think right now that we're painting the perfect picture of it because,
36:34I mean, it's like you said, I mean, people can talk about the drugs and the addiction,
36:37all that kind of stuff. But I heard once that somebody said,
36:40when you point your finger at somebody, it's three point back at you.
36:42So all of us have our demons and all of us have our faults.
36:44And that's something that you got to see the beauty in somebody like Billy and not just see the darkness.
36:48And so I would say to her congratulations.
36:50And we wouldn't even be here talking about this if it wasn't for Billy and those like I learned that as much as you are weak,
37:02you are ten times stronger and mighty in your spirit.
37:08And Billy showed that, you know, as much as she fell for, you know, to her weaknesses with addictions,
37:14she stayed committed to what her purpose was, and that was to make a difference.
37:22So like Toneville said, we can all be sitting here having this conversation,
37:26and that makes her a very strong and mighty person.
37:30Rob, you were going to say?
37:32I was going to say, I learned, man, so much, you know, being a, what I feel, a proud black man in America.
37:40And even right now, you know, I have my I love black people T-shirt.
37:45That's real. This is, you know, this is, I really breathe and think this.
37:50I was embarrassed to not, like, be privy to the information of how Billie Holiday literally could be accredited for kicking up the civil rights movement in America for black people by sacrificing herself, her career, her livelihood to sing that song.
38:11And then I was thinking, you know, Lady Sings the Blues is a beautiful rendition, and we all could be satisfied with that.
38:17But is that part of the mirror, the smoke and mirror, to keep me from being in touch to the woman's presence and kicking off the civil rights movement?
38:27You see what I'm saying?
38:28Then I was like, man, I'm so thankful that, you know, Lee Daniels called me in and brought this whole project and this whole world to my attention for me to even become aware of that.
38:38I didn't know Billie Holiday was shackled, handcuffed to a bed when she died.
38:44You know what I mean?
38:45I mean, like, that changes a lot about what I thought of Billie Holiday up until this point of doing this movie and this project.
38:54And hopefully this project will create that kind of environment for people to do more research and see how she contributed so that we can have the Beyonce's and then ask themselves,
39:06would Billie Holiday approve of what Billie Holiday approve of what you're doing right now, of the art you're giving us?
39:12Are you contributing to what Billie Holiday sacrificed everything for and died very young to do?
39:20Yeah.
39:20You know?
39:22So, yeah, that's my line.
39:24Trevante, what about you?
39:25So, I guess, kind of like through, I guess, portraying Jimmy and then with the question you just asked made me want to say basically like broken glass is beautiful whenever you have like beautiful people caring for it carefully, essentially.
39:48So, that's kind of like just what that made me feel and so I'm appreciative to Billie for being that.
40:01You know what I mean?
40:02That's difficult.
40:03Mm-hmm.
40:05Tyler?
40:06It's been a hell of a journey on this one.
40:15It's changed a lot of the way I think everyone looks at not just Billie but, you know, the narratives that were spun to us.
40:24I think a lot of the times people focus on the addiction or the abuse and they look at the symptom of a problem without looking at the problem itself and get in greater context.
40:40The only way I kind of relate it to is like, you know, when you see a retired athlete and they're moving in, you know, you can tell their knees hurt or their hands are all jammed up and all that.
40:51And you look at that and you look at that picture and if you don't have the context of them in their prime and what they got done, you won't fully understand how beautiful that can be.
41:02Beautiful seeing, you know, somebody's symptoms of their greatness be.
41:07And I think that's, you know, what we didn't get with Billie.
41:09We got the narrative of everything that was wrong with her, but we didn't fully understand what led to that.
41:17Taking on, you know, the FBI and looking them in the eye and saying, no, screw you, I'm singing this song.
41:27There's a weight that comes with that. How do you sit with that at night? Is that stress that you're used to? Is there a way that you would try to medicate through that?
41:33That's what I got from this, that we don't see people in their totality and in full context and then we judge their symptoms.
41:40If we don't do that, we're doing a disservice to this woman.
41:44And that's one of the things that, you know, for me, I find it a great honor to be able to contribute to the context of Billie Holiday.
41:52So we don't just judge her for her symptoms. We see her for who she was.
41:57I think there's something profound that this film came out around the same time as Judas and the Black Messiah.
42:04And I think that there is this notion of what activism and soldiering looks like.
42:11And so much of that was personified by Fred Hampton, but it was personified by Billie.
42:17She was a soldier. She was an activist.
42:19She was complex. And and we don't always understand the trauma that comes along with being an activist and a soldier.
42:28And that was so much of what I saw.
42:31I saw this this post-traumatic stress of what it takes for me to be able to show up and keep being this despite the horror of having to be it.
42:43And that I'll never allow you to see all of the pain that comes with being me, because then it will reduce the strength of what I'm trying to give to the people.
42:55And that was what was so beautiful for me. And I never seen it portrayed that way.
43:01And even more than that, like I said in the beginning, I think that you all personified this mosaic.
43:09I mean, just how many films do you see this many different black men like this, this sophisticated, this sophisticated gangster of Lewis McKay?
43:20And this this this complex sensitivity and commitment of Jimmy Fletcher, this this rawness of of John Levy in in walking out who I feel like I'm supposed to be, regardless of what the consequences are.
43:40And this just unmovable spirit of Miss Freddie and this ability to show up and be a partner from Lester Perez Young.
43:52And and and that's just part of who each of them were. Right.
43:56And so I just want to say we salute you all because it's one thing to be opposite this amazing spirit who happens to win a Golden Globe.
44:09So it's another thing to understand that y'all were the Avengers, man, that that came together across the board.
44:21And so as a black man who works to serve black men, I just want to say thank you for the integrity with which you came to this project and lifting the complexity of men.
44:34I want to thank you all for your time and having this conversation with essence, because it's so necessary.
44:42And if you all have not seen the movie, you've got to see it.
44:46If you have seen it, watch it again, because I'm guaranteeing you is something you missed and watch it with your family.
44:53Watch it with your baby. Watch it with your people, because this is as much as I miss a couple of scenes.
44:59You probably don't want to watch with you with the babies, but I mean, my oldest is my oldest dog.
45:09My oldest is my daughter. And I always like, listen, I need to help you understand what I don't want to happen to you and prepare you for some real shit.
45:17So that's what this is. But you're right.
45:20You've got to be clear.
45:21Well, you've got to learn it in the house instead of in the streets with Louis McCabe.
45:28Now, that's the truest thing that's been said throughout this entire family.
45:33So you all, thank you so much. We appreciate you. We celebrate you. We salute you.
45:38Ladies and gentlemen, Ms. Billie Holiday.
45:49Feels good to be back home.
45:50My name is Billie Holiday.
46:09I'm my own hero.
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