- 2 days ago
Ever wonder how your beauty must-haves are made? This conversation will explore what goes into creating the beauty products you love before they hit the shelves of your go-to shops. Where are the chemicals sourced? Why are certain formulas trending? We’ll find out In The Lab.
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00Yes, it's fast.
00:04Yes, how y'all doing out there?
00:07Day three, we are here.
00:10We have made it.
00:11It's been a full weekend.
00:14How many of us are feeling grateful this morning?
00:16Make some noise.
00:18Oh, y'all look beautiful.
00:21Thank you, Rakimbo, for the beautiful introduction.
00:25First and foremost, I want us to just start with the breath.
00:27So everybody just go ahead and sit in your seat.
00:30Rotate your shoulders back.
00:32Straighten your spine.
00:33Just close your eyes for a moment.
00:36And just take one deep inhale in.
00:39Fill up the body.
00:40Fill up the lungs.
00:41Fill up the belly.
00:42And then exhale.
00:43Let it out.
00:44H-A.
00:46Beautiful.
00:48I hope you start out with the breath, with some gratitude, right?
00:51Because the most important thing is the breath in your lungs this morning.
00:55I don't know how many of us went to see Usher last night, but I know y'all can tell.
00:58I lost a little bit of my voice.
01:00But we still going to rock and roll today, right?
01:03Right?
01:04All right.
01:05So we have a lot in store for y'all today.
01:07First up, we're going in the lab.
01:09Okay?
01:10So you ever wonder how your favorite products come to life?
01:13Does anybody know about those processes, how it works?
01:15Well, we're going to learn about it today from chemical engineering to creative direction.
01:19The lab will explore what all goes into the beauty products and brands that we love today
01:24before it hits the shelves.
01:27So where these chemicals are sourced, right?
01:30Why are certain formulas important?
01:31What things should you be looking for in your products?
01:34Those are the things that we're going to talk about.
01:35First moderator of the day is the beautiful Akili King.
01:39She's been holding it down all weekend.
01:41She's the senior beauty editor of Essence Magazine.
01:44Everyone go ahead and give her a warm welcome.
01:46Ms. Akili King.
02:05Hello, hello.
02:07How are we feeling?
02:09Day 3 Essence Festival.
02:11Thank you all so much for coming out.
02:13My name is Akili King.
02:15I'm the senior beauty editor here at Essence Magazine, and I'm so, so excited to be here
02:20with two incredible cosmetic chemists, industry-leading cosmetic chemists, Sister Scientist and Javon
02:28Ford.
02:29How are we feeling?
02:30Woo!
02:30Yes!
02:30Clap it up for them.
02:32Y'all are doing incredible work.
02:33How are we feeling today?
02:35I'm feeling great.
02:36I'm just happy to be back at Essence Fest.
02:38This is like one of my favorite times of the year, and I wouldn't be anywhere else.
02:43Love to hear it.
02:43And this is my first time at Essence Fest, so I'm excited.
02:46Well, welcome.
02:47We're so happy to have you.
02:49So we're going to get into a great conversation about their career journeys and how product
02:54formulation comes together and all that good stuff.
02:58So let's get started.
02:59Yeah.
03:00To start, I would love to hear, you know, what inspired your career journeys?
03:04It's such a unique path and important path to take, and I'm really curious what inspired
03:09you to take it.
03:11Well, I studied chemical engineering in undergraduate, thinking that I was going to be on a pharmaceutical
03:16path.
03:17But I stumbled across cosmetic science, and I was like, oh, no, this, I'm going to be
03:22in my bag.
03:23Because I knew I had all the hair problems, all the skin problems growing up.
03:27And to be able to use my degree, my skill set, my talents, my genius to create the solutions
03:34to the problems that didn't have solutions when I was growing up, just felt like it was
03:40something I was extremely passionate about.
03:45And then after I got into the industry, I realized there weren't a lot of black women
03:49in this space, on this side of the lab bench, but we're making all these products for women
03:55who look like us.
03:55And so my first experience being in a professional lab, it was a white man, a Pakistani man, an
04:02Indian man, a black man, and they were all bald, and they were telling me what black women
04:06want for their hair.
04:07And I was like, look, I might be new to this, but I know a little bit more about this than
04:12you do.
04:13And that's when I realized that there was value in being able to understand the consumer
04:19and understand the technology and the science and being able to find a space where those
04:25live in the same place.
04:27And that was, like, where I focused all my attention on.
04:30And so I've been doing this for 20 years now, worked with brands like Miel and Cantu and
04:36Shea Moisture.
04:37And I've really seen the growth of this category and just being a part of all the journeys of
04:42all these brands has been just a magnificent ride.
04:46So that's I'm here and I'm here to stay.
04:49Absolutely.
04:50Well, we're so grateful for your work.
04:51And like you said, it's so important to have that representation in the room and actually
04:56someone that could consume the product, actually being there and having your opinion is so
05:02key.
05:03Representation is very important.
05:05And we need more of that over here.
05:07So come over on the side of the lab bench, ladies.
05:10Yes.
05:11Yes.
05:11And you, Javon?
05:12So I have a degree in chemistry and halfway through, like, my college career, I realized
05:17I did not want to go to med school.
05:19I did not want to be a PhD.
05:21There was just too much schooling for me.
05:22It was too theoretical because I had, like, a very creative mind.
05:25I minored in music, so I liked something that was a little bit more artistic.
05:29So I came across cosmetic chemistry on the American Chemical Society website.
05:33They mentioned this career called formulation chemistry that involved making everything from,
05:37like, laundry detergent to shampoos and beauty products.
05:40And I'm like, okay, that's kind of cool because it's a very creative field where you're still
05:44very technical, but it's still creative because you're creating formulas, you're creating colors.
05:49And I decided to stay in the industry because you're still making an impact even if it's as
05:53simple as, like, making an eyeliner for somebody because you're giving them, like, an increase
05:57in self-confidence that affects their mental health.
06:00So it's still making an impact.
06:02And you can see that more when your product, like, changes somebody's life or their outlook on life.
06:06Absolutely.
06:08I love that.
06:08And, I mean, that corny, like, statement we always hear, when you look good, you feel good.
06:14But it's so true.
06:15And I think you're such a key player and part of that, you know, bringing that to life for
06:20everyone.
06:20So I love it.
06:21I love it.
06:21Yes, period.
06:23And then, yeah, so what does a typical day look like for each of you?
06:27I'm sure it's so different each day, but really curious.
06:30So a typical day for me, I am the founder and CEO of a contract manufacturing company called
06:38Emseed Group.
06:39And we focus on developing products for small beauty companies that are trying to scale.
06:46And so we service 200-plus clients where we are helping them take their, go from ideation
06:55to shelf, meaning we have people who are coming in with just an idea.
06:59We're helping them to figure out what their formulation strategy will be.
07:03My lab team and I will come up with the product development protocols and kind of develop the
07:09formulations for them.
07:10They test it back and forth.
07:12They're giving us feedback.
07:14And then once we get the green light on the product, it goes into production.
07:18And so then we are looking at the supply chain.
07:20We're trying to source packaging.
07:22And then we run to, you know, automated lines.
07:27We make about 2,500 gallons of product a day.
07:31And essentially we could be running anything from shampoo to curl cream to edge gel.
07:38And so my day, you know, I built an amazing team.
07:42And my day is basically spent running from the lab to the production area to my sales team
07:48and just really understanding how we can make sure that there's clear communication, how
07:53I can contribute in innovative ways to help our clients really get what they want, and
08:00then just also making sure everybody get paid, right?
08:02So although my focus has been on the chemistry and the chemical engineering side, that's my
08:09passion, building a company that, you know, has 25 employees, I'm often doing more business
08:17stuff than the formulation, right, these days.
08:21But I sneak into the lab at night and I play around with some stuff.
08:24But, yeah, but it's been great to be able to employ black and brown people and to be
08:29a part of, I think, over 500 brands that have launched in the space over the last 10 years.
08:34So that is my day.
08:37Wow.
08:37Amazing.
08:39Very busy, but very important work.
08:43And you?
08:44My day is all over the place because I split my time between formulating for newer brands,
08:50managing my own brand because I'm a brand owner now, too.
08:54So dealing with supply chain issues, helping with logistics, making sure customer service
09:00is on point, and content creation, collaborating with other brands, as well as, in terms of
09:06day-to-day for formulation, though, let's say a brand comes in with a new product concept,
09:11I will ask for a benchmark, like a formula as a reference that they like that's already
09:15on the market, and ask if this is a texture benchmark, meaning they want the product that
09:18feels similarly to this, or a performance benchmark, meaning they
09:20want it to, you know, have the same efficacy.
09:23And then sometimes they have multiple benchmarks, and I'll try to, like, look at the ingredient
09:27list of that, and then source the same or similar ingredients, and try to find something
09:31that fits their budget, because everybody has a budget, or fits what we call a no-no
09:35list, because every brand nowadays has some ingredient list that they don't want in their
09:38products, like, especially for black hair care, like, oh, we don't want silicones, we
09:41don't want sulfates, but we want it to be, like, a very hydrating shampoo that clarifies
09:45the hair, and they want both.
09:46So trying to find that medium where that's somewhat within the realm of science, because
09:50sometimes brands ask for things that are just not possible, but still giving them what
09:54they want.
09:55Great, absolutely.
09:56Finding that middle ground, for sure.
09:58And I know you mentioned some brands that you've worked with before.
10:02I'm also curious if there's any products that other people might know that you've worked
10:07on.
10:08I know there's probably some NDA involvement there, but...
10:11If I tell you, I gotta kill you.
10:14No, as a contract manufacturer, we work with a lot of different brands.
10:19As a consultant, I work with a lot of different startups, and we have a lot of NDAs in place,
10:24but, you know, so some things I can't talk about, but I work with a number of celebrity brands.
10:30A lot of my clients are out here right now.
10:32And, essentially, we, you know, it's important that we held confidentiality to the highest
10:41degree, because I don't want any brand thinking that I'm pushing their stuff to some other
10:45brand, and vice versa.
10:46So there's a high level of integrity and ethics that I hold myself and my team accountable
10:52for.
10:52But I will tell you right now that I'm sure there's some stuff under your sink that I
10:57made.
10:57So, boo.
10:58Exactly, exactly.
11:01And I've made...
11:03The brands I'm allowed to say I've made, I've worked on Milani formulas, and maybe five
11:09brands of Sephora I can't name explicitly.
11:12That's all I can say.
11:13You're trying to get us caught up.
11:14No, no.
11:15Trying to celebrate your incredible work.
11:19Amazing.
11:19And then, you know, there's been a lot of scandals recently when it comes to formulating foundation
11:26shades for deeper skin tones.
11:30I'm curious, you know, how difficult really is it to make shades, like, for our skin?
11:37It's not that difficult.
11:39So the problem was, like, 30 years ago, and the reason why everybody looks super ashy, like,
11:44every black person looks ashy in makeup, is because what they used to do is they would
11:47take a medium-tone foundation that's made up of, like, white pigment, red pigment, and yellow
11:51pigment, and they would just add black to that.
11:52But when you mix black with any type of white, it just gets super gray, and it never looks
11:57natural.
11:57There are no undertones.
11:58There's no warmth to the color.
11:59It just looks dull and flat.
12:02And what brands have started doing nowadays is, like, not starting from a medium-tone base,
12:05but they're starting from scratch.
12:07For one, like, no white pigment.
12:08Just starting from red, yellow, and adding the bare minimum amount of black, because black
12:12is such a hard color to mix with.
12:13It has no depth.
12:15It has no undertone.
12:15It's just neutral.
12:17And nobody's truly neutral.
12:18We are not gray.
12:19We're all different shades of red and yellow, different combination, a little bit of green
12:23sometimes, but there's still color there, just in different combinations.
12:27And what brands are doing nowadays, though, is they're still taking that black base and
12:31just adding that to medium-tone, or adding a lot of black, and it just gets super gray
12:34and dull, like with the Youthphoria controversy, where they're not really looking at human skin.
12:39They're just thinking, like, oh, you're dark.
12:41Let me just add this black.
12:42But black is not, in terms of color theory, it's not a mixing color.
12:46It's saved.
12:47It's like a last resort.
12:48And also, you have to think of it from a business perspective.
12:51Like, if it don't make dollars, it don't make sense.
12:54And for so many years, so many decades, these brands, specifically general market brands,
13:00really didn't think that we were spending money, when, in reality, black women over-index
13:05in their spending by almost, like, 3x the average beauty consumer.
13:12And so they will put more money and more shades into what they think, you know, more of the
13:18general population may purchase.
13:22But the reality is, is that multicultural is now the general population.
13:27And so now they are seeing the dollars and the demand that comes with it.
13:33And that's why we're starting to see more brands really take advantage or take a look
13:38at us and say, oh, it is worth investing more and creating more shades.
13:43I think they were just, it was all about where do you invest the most money?
13:46And they would just always count us out.
13:48But I think we have done a great job of making sure, as a consumer group, that they should not
13:53be counting us out.
13:54Absolutely, yes, clap it up for that.
13:56It's so true.
13:57I mean, black women are the highest consumer in beauty industry.
14:02I mean, we see here, we have a huge area for beauty.
14:05You know, people are shopping and enjoying.
14:07So it doesn't make sense why we wouldn't have options for us.
14:11So thank you for breaking that down for us.
14:14And then off of that, another question when it comes to formulation or just ingredients.
14:20We hear terms like clean beauty thrown around there a lot.
14:25So I'm curious, what does that really mean?
14:27Because some people are saying, you know, clean doesn't necessarily mean clean or all natural.
14:33Or, you know, if you could speak to that and explain.
14:35So first of all, there is no universal or federal regulated standard for clean beauty.
14:45The definition of clean beauty and the standards of clean beauty are really defined by retailers
14:49and by each brand.
14:51And so I think that you have to understand what you are looking for as a consumer.
14:58What are your priorities?
15:00What are the things that you – so in order to understand that, you have to know your body.
15:04You have to know your hair.
15:05You have to know your skin.
15:06You have to know what your standards of ingredients should be.
15:11And then kind of choose the brands that align with that.
15:13But the fear-mongering and the misinformation on social media is just running rampant
15:18because they're scaring us saying, oh, this is all natural and this doesn't have chemicals.
15:22Well, guess what?
15:23Water is technically a chemical.
15:25And when anybody says this is chemical-free, that's a straight-up lie
15:29because everything has some sort of chemical in it and a chemical designation.
15:35But there are definitely different standards that we can formulate to.
15:40And I think a lot of times there's just so much misinformation about how an ingredient can be toxic.
15:49It's not.
15:50It's not.
15:51There's enough – the issue is that people are taking sound bites and little bits of information
15:55and then extrapolating it into very grandiose conclusions without even knowing how to read scientific papers.
16:02And so now we have all of these just misinformation in the community and on social media
16:10that has us scared to use certain products.
16:12But just know that if it is formulated by a certified lab and, you know,
16:16and they're using the U.S. standards, then your products should be safe.
16:21And I just think that it's gotten out of control.
16:25And so that's why we are using our platforms and scientific communication to try to re-educate the miseducated consumer.
16:34Absolutely.
16:35And I love the irony of the term clean because one thing I have seen that brands consistently use is clean.
16:41It's like an ingredient that's almost preservative light if not preservative-free.
16:45But the clean products are the main ones being recalled nowadays because they don't have the preservatives like the parabens
16:53and the formaldehyde-releasing products that are shelf-stable.
16:57I think the mic's cutting out.
16:59And so what ends up happening is that the product is contaminated with fungus or mold or bacteria
17:06because they're not using the standard preservatives.
17:08But they have a lot of water.
17:10They have a lot of extracts.
17:11And so you're getting recalls that are technically dirty, but they're clean because the ingredients are some arbitrary list that somebody created just as fearmonger.
17:21No, absolutely.
17:21That makes a ton of sense.
17:23And then I'm also curious, you know, we have a lot of trending ingredients like retinol, hyaluronic acid, et cetera.
17:33Where, you know, do we source these ingredients from?
17:36Where do we, I guess, what's the process of putting those together?
17:41Hmm.
17:44So hyaluronic acid, I guess some of these can be derived naturally, but most are derived by synthetic means.
17:51Sometimes palm oil is a really common ingredient.
17:54And there's, like, another form called responsibly sourced palm oil because of the deforestation palm oil can contribute to.
18:01For retinol, I'm not sure of the exact source.
18:03But with vitamin E, it sometimes comes from, like, soybean oil.
18:08A lot of them still have, like, a natural base.
18:10And then sometimes it might be bioengineered by a bacteria that's been, like, genetically modified to produce the ingredient more sustainably than sourcing it from, like, the plant itself.
18:20Yeah, and essentially we are going to other vendors that sell these ingredients to us as formulators, right?
18:29And so they are certifying that the ingredients are safe, that they meet the standards.
18:35And so we receive something called a certificate of analysis with every ingredient that comes into the lab that basically says, here are the standards that this must meet.
18:43And it's certified by a chemist that it meets those standards.
18:46So it's not like we're just going into the rainforest and pulling coconuts and bananas off trees and doing stuff.
18:53But there are companies that literally specialize in creating safe, natural raw materials and synthetic raw materials that we then use in the formulations that we make.
19:05So there are multiple layers to the supply chain from, you know, the people who are actually PhDs who are in labs creating new ingredients all the time, the raw material vendors that are selling those raw materials to us and talking about the benefits.
19:21And then as formulation chemists, we're kind of almost the third layer.
19:24And then as formulation chemists, we're going to a manufacturer, and the manufacturer goes to the brands.
19:29Brands go to shelf.
19:30So you have to understand kind of like the entire supply chain of how these products get on your shelf.
19:36It's there's there are a lot of layers.
19:38It's it's like lasagna.
19:40Okay.
19:42Definitely.
19:42There's a lot that goes into ensuring it's safe and everything for us to use.
19:47So it's really cool to hear the process for sure.
19:51And then to close out, I would love to just hear, you know, what is sort of your favorite part about what you do and what keeps you motivated
20:00to keep going?
20:02What keeps me motivated is when people are posting about a formulation that I worked on and she's like, I can't live without this product.
20:09I live for that.
20:12So please keep reviewing your products.
20:15And then also, I'm all about generational wealth.
20:18Like the number of black owned businesses that have come through MC group that have turned into multimillion dollar companies that have had, you know, eight and nine figure exits.
20:30We are creating black wealth on a whole new level.
20:34And so as you see these brands out here doing their thing, the best part for me is knowing that we are supporting that journey.
20:45I always said, like, as as a chemist, as, you know, and somebody who's passionate about the space.
20:50Yeah, I could come out with a brand.
20:51I might have one great idea and it would be awesome.
20:55But with kind of being in the background of formulating and manufacturing for multiple brands, I've been able to lift up and help a number of black owned brands get to that, you know, ultimate mark.
21:12And so for me, it was all about making sure that we had the resources and lowering the barriers of entry for more black and brown companies to come through and have them on the shelf.
21:23And now that I walk down Sephora and Target and Walmart and I see the change in ownership on those shelves, like I know that my last 20 years in this business has been very much worth it.
21:35And I'm enjoying the ride and I ain't finished yet.
21:39Love to hear it.
21:40Yes, we've seen the change, too.
21:42We're so grateful.
21:44And for me, I just like, well, making being a positive influence.
21:48I didn't go into this field with the idea that I would, like, impact people's lives beyond making them feel better about themselves with the product I made.
21:55But lately, like I was in New York in May.
21:58I realized how much I made a difference because people walked up to me saying, like, I inspired them, like black people especially.
22:03I inspired them to go into this field because before seeing, like, us on social media, they never knew this was a career option.
22:09It's not something that they learned about in school.
22:11And like you said, Erica, like years ago, it was very much like a white male-led space.
22:16And it was like this even when I got started up until two years ago.
22:19So just seeing, like, the increase in diversity and just inspiring people that, hey, you can do pretty much anything.
22:27Well, you two are incredible.
22:30You're not only, you know, creating products for us, by us, for us, but you're also showing, you know, the younger generation what career paths that they can look forward to and tap in.
22:40So just keep killing it, keep inspiring.
22:43And thank you so much for being here.
22:45Give it up for these two.
22:47Thank you guys so much.
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