- 2 days ago
Black dermatologists represent only 3% of the industry today and it's time to talk about it. We’re bringing together skincare experts Dr. Cheshana Kindred and Dr. Cheri Frey for a vital conversation about how increasing diversity in dermatology can lead to better care, more tailored treatments, and a brighter future for skin health. Join us and be part of the change and learn more about how you can care for the skin you’re in.
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00:00What are you doing?
00:03Checking in, checking in.
00:04So we still got some more in store, all right?
00:07Now we're shifting from hair into skin.
00:10I heard all those tips that Shanti gave y'all.
00:11I mean, look, she even compared it to how you wash the dishes.
00:14She giving you all the tips and tricks.
00:15But now we're going into skin, okay?
00:18So that's what we're shifting into.
00:20And I want to ask y'all a question.
00:22Did y'all know that only 3% of dermatologists are black?
00:27Did y'all know that?
00:28No, that's crazy, right?
00:30So these highlights the need for increased diversity in that field of dermatology.
00:35This sheds light on the important issue we're currently bringing together these incredible experts.
00:40And they're going to be talking about how increasing diversity in dermatology can actually lead to better results, right?
00:45It can lead to better care, more tailored treatments, and ultimately a brighter future.
00:50And more confidence in everybody, right?
00:52Because you got to love the skin that you're in.
00:54So join us in this crucial conversation and be a part of the change.
00:58Let's give a warm welcome.
01:00We have our moderator for this panel, Ms. Akili King, the senior beauty editor of Essence Magazine.
01:06Y'all give it up.
01:06Hey, it's me, your skin.
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01:35To defend against skin cancer.
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01:39Every day is a sunscreen day.
01:40Hey, y'all.
01:47How are we feeling?
01:48We're looking beautiful.
01:51My name is Akili King.
01:52I am senior beauty editor at Essence Magazine.
01:54And I am extremely excited to be here today with two amazing board-certified dermatologists,
02:02Dr. Cherie Fry and Dr. Shoshana Kindred.
02:05Welcome, ladies.
02:07Thank you for being here.
02:08Thank you for having me.
02:09Yes.
02:09How are we feeling?
02:11Awesome.
02:12I'm happy to be here.
02:13Amazing.
02:14Well, we are going to be discussing the importance of diversity in the dermatology field.
02:19As we know, only 3% of dermatologists identify as black.
02:24So it's a super important conversation to be having.
02:27To get started, I would love for you both to describe your journeys.
02:32What inspired you to get into the field of dermatology?
02:36We'll start with you.
02:37Awesome.
02:38So I was really late in the game.
02:40I didn't know until the fourth year of medical school that I wanted to be a dermatologist.
02:46Like many of you probably, you watched the Cosby Show and that actually what inspired me to be a doctor.
02:52And actually when I was in college, I thought after college I would be a doctor.
02:56That's how clueless I was about the journey.
02:59But thankfully for mentors that helped guide me along the way, we made it, I made it in.
03:04And by the grace of God, I trained at Howard University in dermatology.
03:09Yes.
03:09You know.
03:10Yes.
03:12Absolutely.
03:13That representation is so important.
03:15And Dr. Frye, what about you?
03:17Similar to Dr. Kindred, when I got into medical school, I didn't know what type of doctor I wanted to be.
03:23I thought about being a surgeon.
03:25I just knew I really wanted to make an impact.
03:28And so I thought about things like surgery because when I hear doctor, you know, I think about those fields that I think most people identify with.
03:36And I didn't know much about dermatology.
03:38And so at the recommendation of a friend, I did an elective and spent a month in dermatology.
03:43And I was really intrigued because it did have surgery.
03:46It did cover immunology.
03:48It covered rheumatology.
03:49So I didn't really feel like I had to give anything up.
03:52But what sealed the deal for me is that every medical student had to give a presentation.
03:57And so I decided to do my presentation on black hair.
04:00You know, I looked around and there weren't any black dermatologists there.
04:04So I decided to sort of educate the experts on black hair.
04:08And they were all so impressed with the presentation.
04:12I knew right then that I had something to contribute.
04:14It wasn't just about what that career could do for me.
04:17I could really make an impact in this field.
04:21And so that's what sealed the deal for me.
04:22I love that.
04:24Beautiful.
04:24Amazing.
04:25And then I'm curious your thoughts on what you think is contributing to this disparity and gap that we see in the industry.
04:32And how does it impact your patients?
04:37Yeah, so Dr. Kendrick trained at Howard.
04:40I'm currently at Howard.
04:42H-U.
04:43You know.
04:44I'm there as the residency program director.
04:47So I help to select and train the next generation of dermatologists.
04:51And what I see really is that, you know, long before residency, medical school, even in undergrad, we see that the numbers are going down.
05:04And so this is something that I know Dr. Kendrick is really passionate about.
05:07But there are not as many of us going into medicine.
05:10And so trying to take the few and then convince them to do dermatology, you know, is really a challenge.
05:16And so we're trying to reach back further and further to grab people earlier.
05:21But there are only a limited number of residency spots.
05:25And so that's something we struggle with.
05:26I get over 600 applications for three or four spots a year.
05:30And so we have to select out of that big group.
05:34And so increasing the number of residency spots is something that we need to do.
05:38I think there's more interest, thankfully, now in dermatology.
05:42More people are aware of the field of dermatology.
05:45But that's some of the reasons that we see a disparity is that we need to grab people earlier.
05:50The interest needs to be there earlier so that they are on the right path from the beginning in order to match into a really competitive field like dermatology.
06:00One of the things that I think is contributing to there being so few dermatologists is some intentionality.
06:08There's a reason why we're only 3%.
06:11It's the reason why the number of medical students and physicians who are blacks are actually making it through their career.
06:18And so we have to, with the same intensity, intentionally get our kids into medical school, right?
06:24We need to create more scholarships for each other.
06:27We need to create more mentoring programs for each other.
06:30We need to make sure that they're not falling through all of these trap doors that are out there with some intention.
06:35So no more of just having a smart kid and hope they make it through.
06:40Get that kid and connect them with someone that knows how to get them through each phase so that they can be a physician.
06:48And then if they have a passion for dermatology, please know we're here.
06:52We'll grab that black child and help them get into dermatology.
06:56NMAderm.org is a website.
06:59You should direct anyone who has an interest in dermatology.
07:02We have already set the pipeline up.
07:05Amazing.
07:05Thank you for that resource.
07:07Amazing.
07:08And to follow up on that, I'm curious, in what ways do you feel this impacts patient care today?
07:17So it's sad because it does impact patient care.
07:23So when I look at my white patients, et cetera, they can go to the closest dermatologist to them and get excellent care.
07:33That's not the case for my black patients, right?
07:36So my colleagues can be considered an expert and know nothing about black hair, be considered an expert and know nothing about our bathing habits, our shampooing habits, et cetera.
07:49So it affects that we're more likely to be misdiagnosed, right?
07:53Things look different in our skin.
07:54We're most likely to be mismanaged or mistreated, meaning given the wrong treatment or a treatment that doesn't work or a regimen that doesn't fit our hair and skin.
08:04So unfortunately, the heartbreaking part is it does affect just the whole point of all of this, which is for the patients to not be defined by their disease, but just to live their life.
08:14Absolutely.
08:15Absolutely.
08:17And just to add to that, which I 100% agree with what Dr. Kendrick said, you know, in terms of the conditions that may disproportionately affect us, things like different forms of hair loss, alopecia or keloids and other dermatologic diseases, you know, we need experts in dermatology, scientists who are committed to research
08:44researching these conditions and providing new treatment options and really we find that not everybody is going to be interested in studying those conditions and so we need more people like us who can contribute to the field, not just in diagnosing, but obviously we need to understand these disorders a little bit better so that we can have better treatment options.
09:08Because until recently, people weren't really concerned with some of these things that my patients were suffering from and suffering with.
09:18So that's another important reason.
09:20We're bringing unique perspectives.
09:22We're bringing unique ideas to the table.
09:25And so really that diversity of thought is something else that we're missing when we only have 3% of dermatologists representing the black community.
09:35Absolutely.
09:35And that makes me curious, you know, what are some solutions that are underway to close this gap?
09:41If you want to start.
09:44Right.
09:45So it just so happens that Dr. Fry and I are the chair of the dermatology department of NMA and I'm the past chair and we created a mentorship program.
09:56So that's where, again, once your kid is ready, we have a whole pipeline ready for them.
10:01That's the mentorship.
10:02And then we intentionally do things like this to bring awareness.
10:07We work with other programs, institutions, residencies, et cetera.
10:11And we have some very concrete things in place to try to close the gap.
10:15And then in addition to that, one of the ways we're doing it from a university perspective is, and Dr.
10:25Kindred as well, we have clinical research, right?
10:28And so when you go to pick up a medicine or a treatment, that medicine has gone through decades and decades of tests to be able to hit the market.
10:38And so when we look at certain medications and we look at the populations they're tested on, that same disparity that we see in terms of dermatologists, that exists in the clinical trials and the clinical studies.
10:51So we're working hard in our research centers to make sure that we're recruiting participants who have a range of ethnicities and skin tones to make sure that when a medication is approved, we know that it's going to deliver for us and our community.
11:07We can also identify differences and side effects and be able to understand that medicine across a myriad of ethnicities.
11:18And so that way, you know, we can help make sure that the treatments we provide are safe and effective.
11:25And we do that by becoming what's called a principal investigator.
11:28So we're the ones conducting the clinical trials.
11:31So myself, Dr. Kindred, a lot of my colleagues, some of them you'll see here today at the L'Oreal House of Beauty, are really committed to making sure that those medications are safe and effective.
11:42Could I add to that?
11:44Of course.
11:44So I want to underscore what Dr. Fry is saying.
11:46If you have the opportunity to participate in a clinical trial, provided that you trust the physician, please do.
11:55Because we're working behind the scenes to make sure the medications work for us and are safe for us.
12:01But we can't do it without us.
12:04So if you have that opportunity, if you have eczema, psoriasis, acne, there are some awesome, awesome medications coming down the pipeline.
12:11What we're not going to do is let these medications come, and we didn't make sure they worked for us.
12:19Right?
12:20So please participate in the trial if you have that opportunity.
12:23And even going beyond the clinical trials, you know, our National Institute of Health has a large project to collect genetic information, and that helps as well.
12:33So I know that that can be a little bit of a touchy subject.
12:35I'm like, what are they going to do with my DNA?
12:37I don't know about that.
12:39But we need, again, we need to play catch up because some of the conditions that we suffer from, we just don't know a lot about from a scientific perspective.
12:48And so if we do want to see more solutions and novel therapeutic approaches, then it's going to require us to be willing, again, to participate in all aspects of the trial.
13:01Absolutely.
13:02Y'all are doing some incredible work.
13:04But I'm also curious, what are or what have your personal skin care journeys been like?
13:11For example, I suffer from eczema, so I'm constantly looking for solutions there.
13:17I'm curious what your journeys have been like.
13:20My skin care routine is rather simple.
13:23One, always a moisturizing sunscreen, and that's because black doesn't crack, but it sags.
13:32So we need that protection, and we have to make sure that it has protection from visible light and blue light from our cell phones, computers, et cetera, because that blue light really ages our skin.
13:44And then a retinoid at night, every single night.
13:46So for me, I agree with keeping it simple.
13:52I know it can be difficult because the market is really flooded with a lot of different products, and they all have different claims.
13:59And, you know, this one looks good.
14:00The next thing you know, well, I'm supposed to be using this.
14:02And what about this ingredient?
14:04So for me, I really like picking out products that have more than one use, right?
14:11So if I'm looking at a serum, and I have dark spots, but I also want something that's anti-aging, and I want an antioxidant, I'm looking for that multimodal approach in my products.
14:22You brought up a good one, a moisturizing sunscreen, right?
14:25Because people don't want to put on 8, 10 layers.
14:28You don't have 30 minutes in the morning to do your regimen.
14:30So I like to keep it simple as well.
14:32I'm really big on keeping my cleanser and my moisturizer quite simple, and then adding a few active ingredients.
14:38My favorite ingredient is glycolic acid.
14:41I think it just does a lot for the skin in terms of evening out your skin tone and helping to prevent the signs of aging.
14:49It's a great exfoliant, and it's in a lot of different products.
14:52But that's probably my favorite ingredient.
14:55And so a lot of the skincare products that I gravitate towards to have glycolic acid in there.
15:02As far as, like, my personal journey, I would say, you know, like everybody, when I was a teenager, I had acne breakouts.
15:10It's quite common when you're young.
15:12But they don't really talk to you about the breakouts you're going to get as an adult female, right?
15:16Like, that is...
15:18I have one right here.
15:19It kind of hits you by surprise.
15:21Like, wait a minute.
15:22You know, I'm 30-something years old.
15:24Why am I still breaking out?
15:25And so, you know, I had the luxury of being a dermatologist and knowing exactly what to do.
15:30But there are so many people out there who feel like they're in the minority, and that's not true.
15:36So, you know, I never want anyone to feel shame about their skin condition.
15:39But I do want people to know that if they are interested in treatment and they're interested in improvement, then it is out there.
15:48So that was the thing for me is that adult female acne that just...
15:52Every month, I was like, whoa, we got to get this together.
15:54I can't have this.
15:55How I'm walking around with hot flashes and acne.
15:58Make that make sense.
16:00You're like, pick a struggle.
16:03I hear that.
16:04I mean, I love that you both mentioned the importance of sunscreen, especially in the black community.
16:09There's a lot of myths around it and whether we need it or not.
16:13But we definitely do, you know, with skin cancer and other conditions.
16:17But I'm curious if there's any other skin care myths that you want to debunk here today.
16:23I'm talking to the myth queen right here.
16:25Y'all don't know, but for years, she had Derm Myth Mondays.
16:29And so this is the myth queen here.
16:32Yes, I used to have something called Derm Myth Mondays.
16:34This is my girl right here.
16:36So I use...
16:38So I won't do hair, I'll do skin.
16:39And the biggest myth is that blacks don't need sunscreen.
16:43It's a huge myth.
16:44And we all should wear sunscreen.
16:47But I don't want you to mistake in that for meaning.
16:51And this is...
16:52There's some nuance to this.
16:54It doesn't mean for blacks that sunscreen is protecting us from skin cancer.
17:02Okay.
17:02So for blacks, our skin cancer is in sun-protected areas.
17:07So you always want to monitor the bottom of your feet, your toenails, your fingernails.
17:12That's where we tend to get skin cancers.
17:15Make sense?
17:16But we still need sunscreen.
17:20Absolutely.
17:20I agree with that.
17:21And I would throw in one that, you know, if you have oily skin, you don't need a moisturizer.
17:26Then you may need a different type of moisturizer.
17:29But there, you know, you can have a damaged skin barrier and have oily skin.
17:35So we're really doing two different things.
17:37Now, you want to find a vehicle that you like, right?
17:39So you may want an ultralight moisturizer or they have moisturizers that are more in gel formulations.
17:45But you absolutely do need a moisturizer even if you have oily skin.
17:50So it's just about finding the right one.
17:52Absolutely.
17:53Those are great tips.
17:54And I'm curious, both of y'all are glowing.
17:57Do you have a favorite Holy Grail product right now or Holy Grail ingredient that you're loving?
18:04So I actually have a new favorite.
18:07It's new.
18:09And I do tend to have a simple regimen.
18:11But believe it or not, my new favorite is actually a L'Oreal product.
18:16It's Mela B3.
18:17So, you know, as blacks, like, jeez, as if the mosquito bite wasn't enough, the acne bump wasn't enough.
18:28But we have to have the brown footprint that's left after.
18:32And sometimes that dark spot lasts longer than the original pimple that caused it in the first place.
18:37And so a lot of times we would use, like, bleaching products, et cetera, weren't quite as elegant.
18:43So Mela B3, you could just take that serum and just put it on your whole face.
18:48And it's smart enough to know the difference between your normal skin and the dark discoloration.
18:54And it just evens everything out.
18:56A very elegant product.
18:59I love it.
18:59It's actually my new favorite since I'm having hot flashes and acne.
19:03And the acne is leaving dark marks.
19:06That's a great one.
19:07I already mentioned glycolic acid.
19:10Another ingredient I'll mention, because you brought up the Mela B3, is that B3 component, which is niacinamide.
19:17Now, I know we've seen niacinamide preached as something that's going to even out your skin tone.
19:22And, you know, it has a way of working on the pigment-making cells.
19:25It interferes with the melanin being transferred from the melanocyte, which makes it, to the keratinocyte,
19:32which is your normal skin cells.
19:34But I actually, you know, don't really tout it for that.
19:38It interrupts something called the Maillard reaction, which is this yellow browning of your skin.
19:44So just as you age, these what we call advanced glycation products, these are things with sugars in our blood.
19:50They start to damage our cells and proteins.
19:53And so that just causes your skin to be dull and kind of yellowish in hue if you've ever left an apple out and you see it start to brown.
20:02And so it does a fantastic job helping to prevent that.
20:06But it's also an antioxidant, and it helps with your skin barrier.
20:09So just to piggyback on yours, the B3 part of that, that niacinamide is also in that same serum and is a wonderful ingredient for your skin.
20:20Yeah, so in general for your routine, you want to protect during the day and repair at night, right?
20:27So your sunscreen is during the day and your vitamin A cream is at night.
20:33And then you have like boosters like glycolic acid, MeliB3, et cetera.
20:38And then if you're fine, if it isn't working, just please see your local dermatologist and we can tailor this for you.
20:46Amazing. Incredible.
20:48And any last final tips or tricks before we close out when it comes to taking better care of our skin as a whole?
20:58I would say start early, right, and pass that information on to your kids.
21:04It's much easier to prevent than it is to treat.
21:08It's also much cheaper to prevent than it is to treat.
21:12But that would be my last final tip.
21:14Just start early, a simple regimen.
21:17It doesn't have to be complicated.
21:19It doesn't have to be expensive.
21:21But just make sure you're using good quality products and ingredients.
21:26And please keep your 10, 11, 12, and 13-year-olds out, yes, out of those, I shouldn't say the name, but those skincare stores.
21:37They do not need retinol.
21:39Your 10-year-old does not need a vitamin A cream.
21:42You're exactly right.
21:43Simple is best.
21:45Just simple.
21:45Love it.
21:47Thank you so much.
21:48And I know you have one last announcement to make before we close out.
21:53Yes, so please, please join me at the L'Oreal booth, and we'll talk about just why Ashy is not classy, sis.
22:02You heard it here first.
22:04Thank you, ladies, so much.
22:06Thank you all.
22:07Thank you all.
22:08I learned so much today.
22:11Yay.
22:11Let's go.
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