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00:00Hi, this is Kanan Jasper. I'm sitting here with Dr. Kendall Jasper of The Doc and the Dude.
00:10We are hosting the Essence Wellness House, and this segment is called Apologize for What.
00:16Now, what we've done, we've opened it up. We've invited a couple of dear friends of ours.
00:20Our first guest is beautiful woman, Roxy Diaz. Where are you?
00:28Hi.
00:28Hey, there she is.
00:30Hey, what's up? How you doing?
00:32Looking great this morning. And our next guest is Lawrence Ajita from Our Family Dinner, dear friend of mine, great brother.
00:40What's going on, family? Good afternoon.
00:42How you feeling?
00:44Feeling good.
00:45Let's get to it. Apologize for what?
00:48Just so I want to set the tone a little bit, everybody. And we came up with the name for this segment, quite honestly.
00:55Traveling a little bit of late.
01:00Kanan and I were having a conversation with one of our family members, and he had an interaction with someone professionally, but he really had the opportunity to say how he truly felt in that professional environment.
01:17And the feedback from some of the message with him was very much about him coming back to the table, even apologizing for how he felt.
01:33And from my perspective, didn't feel like what he expressed was out of bounds.
01:38But I kind of extrapolated that out to, you know, our experience as black folks and the idea that we often find ourselves apologizing in situations, even when we're expressing what probably is the truth.
01:59Expressing how we feel, suppressing how we feel, you know, most recently, sports related, I watch a lot of sports, and the head coach of Oklahoma State football did a video with his star running back.
02:17And his star running back was not at all wrong for his concerns about the shirt that his coach was wearing.
02:23But the star running back was the one who got on the camera to apologize in the same frame with the coach.
02:33And the coach, he never apologized for how his shirt and the thoughts and associations that come with what was on the shirt impacted his black running back and his other black teammates.
02:50So what is he apologizing for?
02:53And that's part of that's part of what we want to get into, because we all have, you know, different paths.
03:00And we want to open the floor up to y'all because we we each have unique experiences.
03:07So, Roxy, I'm going to volley to you real, you know, real quick and tell me tell me something you would like to talk about or you'd like to discuss.
03:16Well, you know, it's a piggyback off of what you were saying, Dr. Jasper, a.k.a. the best face partner in the entire world.
03:24All facts.
03:25You know, I think justifying the fact that having to apologize for our our feelings and being outspoken right now, which has been a beautiful thing that I've been seeing across social media.
03:39Um, a lot of others have felt a certain type of way and it's like, um, you feel like they're not being able to relate to you.
03:52So I guess my question to you would be like, how do you have a harmonious relationship, working relationship with some of your peers who are who are white, you know, and they just don't understand that you're being vocal because you're fighting for your rights.
04:08You're, you're standing up for equality, but they don't, they don't get it because of the privilege.
04:13So how do you not feel animosity towards somebody who maybe didn't speak up for you and you considered them a friend or a mentor, like a coach?
04:22Like how should that young man proceed?
04:25Well, I think that historically, um, the, the impact that, that, you know, four or 500 plus years of, of what we've experienced doesn't lend itself very well
04:38to you feeling a level of harmony.
04:42You should have some concerns because we, we see that the end result of that can be dire.
04:50So out of that conflict, out of creating that dissonance, there can be some harmony, but we can't get there without an honest discussion about who we are.
05:04You know, what, what our perceptions of each other are, how educated we are about each other culturally, individually, uh, as we create some harmony there based on an understanding.
05:19If I don't truly understand how you feel and you don't truly understand how I feel, then the space doesn't exist for us to maybe educate each other on why we have that perspective.
05:32Well, I guess my, but I guess in, in piggybacking on what you're saying, it's more like, how do you introduce that conversation to somebody who may feel a little standoffish and they don't, it's kind of like out of sight, out of mind.
05:44If we don't talk about it, we don't address it.
05:46It doesn't happen.
05:47It just, it's this elephant in the room that never gets addressed.
05:49So how do you make what once may have been a cool relationship?
05:55Now we're fighting for equality before you didn't have no problem with me, but now I see you're not outspoken and I don't know if you feel the same type of way that I feel.
06:03So how do you create that, that nice balance towards somebody and, and introducing the conversation?
06:10For me, for me, if you want a nice balance, then I guess you have to add more on the other side of the scale, which is now my side of the scale.
06:18Right.
06:18So I've been living your truth for a long time and had to suppress mine.
06:23So there's questions to, if they're really somebody that I have to have a relationship with, I ask them the question, like, you know, have, have we been living in harmony to this point?
06:34You know what I mean?
06:34Is it harmonious?
06:36Is it harmonious right now?
06:37What we're fighting for is it harmonious when a man or woman has to scream for their lives at the hands of the entity, another entity, right?
06:45You know, um, who's supposed to protect the community.
06:48Is that harmonious?
06:49Is it harmonious when you got us constantly, when you get counts, constantly surpassed by your, maybe your white counterparts, you know, when you outperform them and you have more responsibility to them than them.
07:03And then you're surpassed in forms of salary and promotions.
07:07You know, is it harmonious when one of us can live their truths and the other one can't?
07:12I don't think that's very harmonious at all.
07:15So I, I tell them and I approach them with the truth.
07:20You know, you can't simply say, well, I'm not racist in a racist environment because that doesn't even the scale.
07:26You have to be anti-racist in order to help even this scale.
07:31So for me, it's always about approaching the way, honesty and truth.
07:35And hopefully right now, I don't want to suppress my, I don't want to apologize for that.
07:40Really quickly, Lawrence, I definitely want you to chime in, but back to the basic foundation of it, you introduce it as part of a health and wellness conversation.
07:49This is, this speaks to my health, right?
07:52And my wellness, the stress, anxiety, the fear, and all the things associated with the manner in which we have been living and the comfort with which you have shown, you know, to keep things at the status quo has been troubling for me personally and then individually for my people.
08:10So Lawrence, I just want you to chime in.
08:12Yeah, I'll piggyback off of that.
08:15I think power, I think proximity gives power.
08:17The proximity of the relationship you have gives power to have the conversation.
08:21But one of the things that has been keen, I've seen this in the faith community with a number of, you know, white pastors reaching out.
08:27I've seen this, even at my alumni, I ran track at UT, a number of students, the football team has stood up with demands and they're afraid of the cost.
08:36The big thing is I call it like a landing place.
08:39If I'm having a conversation with you, all I can commit is that because of our relationship, I'm going to give you grace to make a mistake.
08:47That's what I'm offering for the conversation.
08:50Now, it's not my job to do the work, right?
08:52I think part of wellness, sometimes I re-traumatize it to feel like you're still having to do the work.
08:56Google is free, right?
08:58But what I will do is give you a soft landing place as your brother, as your friend, as your sister, to be able to ask me and have the conversation.
09:07But that's what I can commit to.
09:08And I've seen that be fruitful in the conversations that I've been having with leaders where I'm just saying, don't worry about the retribution.
09:16This is a safe place to talk, but it's not for me to do the work.
09:20It's for you to do the work.
09:22OK, well, that was a great question.
09:27That was a really good question.
09:29Lawrence, I want to get something from your experiences, something that you wanted to throw out and address.
09:36Yeah, I think it builds on this idea of the cost.
09:39I think so many of brothers and sisters who are in this position right now have to weigh the cost.
09:44And one of the questions that I think I ask is, how do you challenge the very system you're looking to be successful in?
09:50Right. And so for many people, they're like, if I really take this the way it goes, the world the way it is, it's going to cost me something.
10:02Right. So maybe it's not a maybe maybe at the end of the day, you have to inherently take the cost.
10:07But I love to kind of engage that question from one standpoint of saying I need to pay bills to be well.
10:13I need to make sure these clients stay. But it's going to cost me.
10:16So how, again, do you challenge the very system that you're looking to be successful in?
10:23I think from again, I hate to be the cliché doctor talking about our health and wellness.
10:29Right. But but that's part of why I'm here.
10:32So. I think that the cost isn't any more intense psychologically than the cost has already been for.
10:45Most of us being OK with the status quo, right?
10:49Right. A detachment from who you are and who you want to be on a daily basis in almost every situation you're in, other than maybe in your own home and even sometimes in your own home is as costly as it can get.
11:06So. So. There has to be an understanding, number one, of who you are, right, in the work that you do on your own to understand who I am, what I understand, what I'll stand for, what I won't stand for.
11:21And then understand the sacrifice associated with pushing to be able to show who I am and it matters.
11:31And that almost sounds counterintuitive, like I'm pushing to have you respect who I am and that I matter.
11:40But that's the conundrum that we find ourselves in when we have gone so long as a people that consistently are working to identify who we are, as simple as our names, stripped of us from the very beginning.
11:56So I think that it is going to cost a lot, but it can't really psychologically, we have to understand it can't really cost us more than what it's already cost us.
12:11Go ahead, Roxanne.
12:12No, I do have a question to follow up with that thought, because I feel what you're saying, Lawrence, and it's like it has already cost us so much emotionally, the anxiety and even suppressing ourselves culturally sometimes in the work environment.
12:30I mean, I have girlfriends who aren't able to wear their hair a certain type of way because it may seem offensive or the big earrings, you know, because it may feel like a distraction in the workplace.
12:43But my question is, though it may cost us something and we're already facing a financial burden, a lot of us at home, especially due to COVID and being quarantined.
12:54There's a lot of people that are losing their jobs, but with the cancel culture that we're in right now, for instance, if I worked at Starbucks, but Starbucks is canceled, but Starbucks pays the bill.
13:07How do I find that?
13:09How do you suggest someone moves then, Dr. Jasper?
13:13Like, how do you how do you tell someone, you know, stop settling and be OK to walk away?
13:19How do I mentally get ready to stand up for what I believe in and get ready to put myself in a financial burden as well?
13:26Because I'm sure a lot of us are in positions where we're not happy with the way we were treated in the workplace.
13:31But we also have families at home that we have to feed and and responsibility.
13:37So so what are your suggestions?
13:40Well, I think that, number one, there is no turning back.
13:44Oh, yeah, I think far too long, we allow the powers that be to engage in some form of trickology where they give us a little bit and we think we've arrived or we got what we came for.
13:57Right. We have a lot of others saying black lives matter.
14:00And that is enough in the circumstance.
14:03And there aren't any action items associated with it.
14:05There is any real change that comes along with that.
14:08So I think that, you know, we have to understand that options always exist.
14:13Well, maybe you don't keep your job at Starbucks, but there are plenty of other companies that are hired.
14:18Right. And we have that's that's one of my things that I always talk about.
14:24Like I am in favor of protest.
14:27Right. But not blindly.
14:30You know, with protest, there's a balance to pro and it's called con.
14:33And it's it's always a contest there.
14:35And within a contest, you have opposition.
14:37So you have to be very aware of what your opposition is capable of and you have to be able to plan and strategize for that.
14:45Yes, there are going to be some casualty any time you do any type of opposition or revolution is going to be casualty, you know, because it's you're all in an irrational state.
14:55Just like oppression is irrational. The revolt is it is somewhat irrational.
15:00But we're going to have to accept the casualties that come with it.
15:03But if you plan properly and understand, listen, where are the employment houses?
15:09Where are all the H.R. people that are that have eyes on where new employment may be?
15:15You know what I mean? We have to identify these people.
15:17If we're going to fight in some sort of contest, then we have to know where our allies are, you know, so it can't just be blind with emotion.
15:28It has to be something strategic. And we have to those things.
15:32I want to kind of even tie this point.
15:35And I think this makes it real that we actually have to make community more practical and tangible.
15:40Right. And so even right now, you heard what John Boyega, the actor did,
15:45who was standing for Black Lives Matter. And what I loved and I saw on Twitter was the community was just like Jordan P was kind of like, I got you.
15:53Don't worry. Right. Right. So, you know, I think we're moving to a new phase of community where people actually have to be a part of collectives with clear expectations.
16:02If I lose my job, I need a job. If I lose this, will people step up?
16:07And I think we've now move past this food, food community or like we're together to say, I need you to help me take care of my family if I'm going to put myself out there.
16:16And the hope I see is that people are already moving that that way.
16:20But I think we really have to get really organized locally and be a part of things where we can take care of one another, even if that opportunity is taken away.
16:27Absolutely. Like I look, you know, and I always say some stuff that may be a little off the rails, but guess what?
16:35It is what it is. Right. I I'm looking at these Black Lives Matter roads being painted and I'm like, OK, where do those roads lead to?
16:43Right. Because it can't lead to a dead end for me.
16:46You know, we have we can't allow it to make it a dead end.
16:51You know, there's Martin Luther King Jr.
16:52Boulevards all over this country and the most violence happens on those blocks.
16:56So it's not just about a street sign or a pavement where those roads are going to lead.
17:01And that's what I think we need to be, you know, utilizing our community to do, as you said, March, you know.
17:08Any final thoughts, Rox? Well, I think and and I piggyback off of what Lawrence just said, and it starts with the community.
17:15It starts with a local level. And I appreciate you guys even addressing the questions that I had.
17:21But it is about getting together, banding together. And I'm a firm believer in voting and I'm a firm believer of voting on a local level.
17:28It's about knowing who your D.A. is, as you're voting for your local sheriff, you're voting for those people that are going to represent you.
17:35And as much as we are not enamored, maybe with this election and the choices that we have,
17:43we have to realize that not showing up is also a vote for the other side as well.
17:47So I'll leave it with that thought. But I appreciate you guys getting people mentally prepared for what a revolution costs and the sacrifices that will come with that.
17:59So thank you, fellas. I appreciate it.
18:01Thank you, Dr. Jess. But thank you, Kanan. And thank you, Roxy.
18:05You know, final thoughts is that my thing is just we need to get our affairs in order as it relates to our families, making sure that we're connected.
18:12We've reconciled with people because there are people who are losing people. They can't even say goodbye.
18:17And I think those relationships will sustain you when you have to deal with the counseling and the cost.
18:21The second thing is everything that I've shared before, which is that you have to make community real.
18:26It can't be an email list. It can't be an occasional.
18:28You have to have real expectation of how you're going to care for one another, because my hope is that things get better.
18:33But it may be a long time. So that's my hope for our people from a wellness standpoint.
18:38But grateful that we're having this conversation today because it's needed.
18:41Absolutely. And we will continue this conversation. I mean, this was a little short.
18:45We're going to wrap this one up. You know, we appreciate your presence.
18:49We appreciate your input and your research on it.
18:52But we appreciate your truth unapologetically.
18:56Yeah. I was just going to say, of course, thanks to the Essence Wellness House for inviting us to have this, you know, riveting conversation.
19:04I my final thought is.
19:08We if we're in a place that we have to continue to apologize.
19:13Just be able to exist and express who we are culturally.
19:19Then we haven't moved very far from where we were when we first came to the shores and that the mental anguish associated with that.
19:32Is beyond what we could ever imagine.
19:35And we've got to move forward to be able to get to a point where we don't feel like we're apologizing for basic existence.
19:46All right.
19:48Basic space space.
19:50What she said at the beginning, best space place, best space partner, best space partner, best space partner, non-aggressive space partner, ever.
20:00All right.
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20:04All right.
20:05Yeah.
20:06All right.
20:07Bye guys.
20:08Thank you so much.
20:10All right.
20:11Yeah.
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