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00:00Good evening, everyone.
00:22My name is D'Andre Whitfield, and welcome to Dear Black Men.
00:26This is a panel exclusively for Black women.
00:30About their hopes, their fears, as it pertains to loving Black men in today's world.
00:38And we've got a great panel for you.
00:41Beginning with TV relationship expert, psychologist, and author, Dr. Michelle Callahan.
00:49Entrepreneur, speaker, activist, and organizer, Tamika D. Mallory.
00:56President and founder of PS314, matchmaking agency for social change, PS314, Pi Isis S.
01:09Ankara.
01:10And, of course, last but not least, journalist and TV producer, Janelle Snowden.
01:22Welcome, sisters.
01:23How are you?
01:25Good.
01:25Good.
01:26Hanging in.
01:26Really good.
01:27I'm tired.
01:28Absolutely.
01:29I think the better question, Brother D'Andre, is how are you?
01:33I am, thank you for asking that.
01:38I am, I posted on my social media platforms about the fact that I am in a perpetual state
01:46of grief and rage.
01:48Mm-hmm.
01:49It is really tough to watch any of our people, but this time in watching Brother Floyd, watching
02:01another brother die in that way was extremely painful because all I could see was every Black
02:10man that I know, including myself and my 11-year-old son.
02:16So, it has really been tough.
02:19It has been challenging, but we're going to make it.
02:25We're going to make it.
02:25We always do.
02:27So, yes, indeed.
02:28So, let's start this conversation off.
02:30I really wanted to touch on something that I think is really important in terms of, and
02:36speaking of that, great segue to it, which is, how do you feel about the state of Black
02:44men's mental health and about physical safety in this time?
02:53Sister Janelle, why don't you start us off with that?
02:58As far as mental health, I think you said it pretty accurately.
03:03I think that we're all in a state of minute-to-minute awareness of our grief, and we process it
03:14differently.
03:15So, I have been constantly checking in with all of the men in my life, my father, my brother,
03:26partner, because I want them to know that it's okay to not be okay.
03:30And I was really moved by a recent conversation I had with my brother, who is in his early
03:3830s, entrepreneur, new father, very soft-spoken, but powerful in his own way.
03:49And he said, you know, I want to talk to dad, but I don't even know what to say.
03:54And I think that that's a sentiment that many probably share, because we're all processing
04:01so much, and what we're feeling is truly generational trauma.
04:06This is not the first time we've been here.
04:07Certainly, this time feels different.
04:09But I think that it's critical that we monitor each other, and not just in word, but in action.
04:18You know, after you ask, maybe ask again, because we're known for saying, I'm good, but are you
04:24really?
04:25So, I think follow-up questions and follow-up actions are key.
04:30Absolutely.
04:31Sister Pai Isis, I want to follow up with you, because this question is really going to be
04:35for all of you.
04:36What are your thoughts on that?
04:37You know, I was just listening to, I've been going back to, because we've been here so
04:43many different times, I wanted to go back to conversations that our ancestors had those
04:49generations before us.
04:50I was listening to James Baldwin and Nikki Giovanni talking about the impact of the Black family
04:56in times like this, when we are basically living through terrorism on our bodies, our spirit,
05:01and our dignity.
05:02And my sense is that we are in need of grace for ourselves and each other, specifically for
05:11Black love.
05:12That is so, that has been assassinated very pointedly over the years, decade to decade,
05:19and it's never really been acknowledged, and there's been no accountability.
05:23And so, there was a period of time about five years ago when we were kind of in this space
05:27before of I can't breathe.
05:29So, to have that again is insult to injury.
05:34And I thought, well, you know, humanity will lead us forward.
05:38Reconciliation will lead us forward.
05:40I thought about South Africa and what they've gone through and how important the Truth and
05:44Reconciliation conferences were and to be so public.
05:49But the reality is that we're not ready for reconciliation until we deal with truth.
05:53And to have our Black men be assassinated by their dignity, life, or spirit every single
05:59day in their presence is truly unfair.
06:03And to make space for them as Black women to love them is something that we try to do over
06:08and over from, you know, from one generation to another.
06:12And I'll just leave it with this point as we continue to have the conversation.
06:15A family member of mine, a woman, Black woman, she said to me about her partner, she said,
06:21I don't understand why he's not as enraged as I am.
06:24And I said, you know, just think about the coping mechanisms that we've had to deal with
06:30and adopt, right?
06:32Because we have to continue.
06:34Because even though there have been glimmers of hope and there's been progress, we have
06:38yet to have accountability across the board.
06:40There's been yet to dismantle.
06:42We've been disruptive.
06:44But to dismantle and reconstruct with our politics being thought of and considered as a priority
06:49at the table.
06:51So until that is done, it's difficult to believe that things will change.
06:55So we're almost kind of keeping things in the back.
06:59We don't want to really bring it to the forefront.
07:01So I can imagine for him, for many Black men, I don't want to bring this up.
07:07Because what happens if it doesn't change?
07:09I will rage.
07:10Where will that go?
07:11Where will the energy go?
07:12Are we supposed to hold that as Black women in the family?
07:15You know, I think that when we think about reparations, that has to also come with our
07:20healing.
07:21That's not just about a transaction of money to our communities.
07:25That's also about acknowledgement that we have been living through trauma and continuously
07:29living in trauma and what that does to us, specifically to our dignity.
07:33And what does it do to men who are meant to be protectors and providers to the family
07:38when they're unable to?
07:41So it was the same conversation with Nikki and James.
07:43It is the same conversation today.
07:45So in terms of mental health, I have great concern for all of us.
07:50Yeah, definitely.
07:50And specifically for our Black men.
07:52You know, if I could just chime in on that.
07:58Sister Tamika, please.
07:59You said something that I thought was so powerful.
08:02It's like, what do I do with all that rage?
08:04And when I hear someone say, well, my husband or my partner is not as angry as I am, what
08:09I take from that is if I allow I truly feel in this moment to manifest itself, then I'm not
08:18sure that it can be contained.
08:19And I understand that being an angry Black man or woman in America is dangerous.
08:25Like you can die.
08:27The more angry you are, the more that you are unable to save your own life when you're
08:33approached by someone else who's ready to take it at the drop of a dime just because
08:39you were too angry, upset, whatever.
08:41And if you work, if you're a Black woman and you work with Karen all day, she's somewhere
08:45trying to get you set up on your job and, you know, and lie on you possibly just because
08:52you may have hurt her feelings that day by the fact that you didn't say good morning.
08:56So you have to walk around literally laying down your burden and trying not to walk in,
09:04as you said, your feelings, because to walk in and it's too heavy.
09:09And as they say, if Black people, you know what?
09:12I saw a meme that said, thank God we only want justice and not revenge.
09:16Not revenge.
09:18Yep.
09:18That's right.
09:19As a psychologist, what concerns me the most is that it's so obvious that there's no value
09:26being placed on Black men's lives, their physical, biological lives.
09:30So if people don't see them as human and they see them as disposable, then how will they ever
09:36get the kind of mental health treatment and care that they deserve?
09:39I saw a reporter this week crying on camera and it was so touching to me because you very
09:46rarely see Black men cry and you also very rarely see them cry on television.
09:52And he's used to being on TV.
09:54So, you know, he handled it like a pro, but I thought to myself, thank God, maybe someone
09:59watching this will look into his face and think for a second, oh my God, this guy is somebody's
10:04son.
10:05This guy is somebody's father.
10:06This guy is somebody's partner.
10:08There's so much stigma attached to mental health issues.
10:12It's often not even comfortable for anybody to speak up and say they need some of those
10:16things.
10:17And because Black men have carried so much weight on their shoulders across the centuries
10:21of wanting to stand tall and hold their families together, there's really no room and space
10:28for them to express how they feel and what's going on with them in terms of their mental
10:33health.
10:33But without a space, a safe space where they can finally take the mask off and be their
10:40true selves.
10:41How do we get them through these moments if they don't even have a moment to just be
10:45human and just feel what they're feeling and feel supported and loved by the people in
10:50their community?
10:52Some people are still just, you know, they have to brace themselves because you never
10:57know if you will walk out that door and you won't come back home to your family.
11:01I want to tell you, I was just laughing because of myself and when you get home, we're like,
11:10and so who is Susie and why was she liking pictures on your Instagram?
11:15You know, the battles are inside and outside.
11:25As a Black man, I want to tell you that this is extremely powerful to have four sisters be
11:35able to say that they need to be able to see us be in a space where we can be more human.
11:45And I also said in a post of mine last week that we need to, as Black people, we need
11:51to begin to emotionally and mentally triage each other, to check in with each other.
11:57How are you doing?
11:58Hey, brothers, when I go into the, you know, into a store to grab something, every single
12:04time I see a Black person, sister, how you doing?
12:09My brother, how you doing?
12:10And I wait for a verbal response.
12:14Yes.
12:15Like we got to have an exchange.
12:17Like that's how we begin to emotionally and mentally triage each other, just by being able
12:22to tap in, like check in.
12:26So thank you for acknowledging that because our brothers do need to feel more of our humanity
12:34rather than feeling like we got to be, you know, the mighty us all the time.
12:38I think it's so important that we as Black women check ourselves by not assuming what
12:46it is that our men need, but actually asking, how can I support you?
12:52What is it that you need?
12:54We talk a lot in general relationship terms about love languages and learning those of
12:59the ones that we love.
13:00And so I think this is very similar in that regard in that we need to really pay attention
13:06to what people are telling us and not make assumptions about what we think they need.
13:13Yes.
13:14You know, to your point where you talked about your mom and your dad and their sustained
13:20love over, you know, decades, it's, it's very similar to the sustained love that we need to
13:28have for each other in being able to speak with each other.
13:31It's very seldom that we get a chance to have conversations like this where I got to tell you,
13:39and I'm just going to, I'm going to say this and I want all of you to chime in on this.
13:43I, as a Black man, am so hurt by the fact that my sisters don't get a chance to be their feminine
13:57self often.
14:01We, as Black men, have to do a better job of being, I talk about this in my book,
14:08how we have to be the, the, the cover for our sisters that allows them to be their feminine
14:17self.
14:18Every time I see a Black woman who leads with her masculinity, I know that that is a sister
14:24who has had some of her femininity broken in a space where she's not safe, where she's
14:31uncovered.
14:32And now she has to do everything that she can do in order to protect her femininity by leading
14:38with her masculinity.
14:40Do I have that right?
14:42That's right.
14:42Well, some sisters are born more masculine.
14:47So there is that.
14:48But really that I feel in my mind, I have had to, um, do to like, I was just watching a
14:56protest a few weeks ago and it wasn't a protest.
14:59It was the police officers responding to what claimed to be a infraction of a social den in
15:06New York.
15:06I'm sure you all saw people outraged that they were beating up young people in New York
15:13City and yet they were giving out masks to white folks in the park.
15:17Um, and I saw this young sister f***ing the cops, like swinging, fighting for her life
15:26a big man.
15:28And I'm thinking to myself, wow, she in that moment felt like, and it was because her friend
15:36or brother or something was in the police car for no reason.
15:40They had arrested him.
15:41And she was fighting the cop for her, for her brother.
15:44It never gets to the point where a woman feels that she has to fight a man to protect the
15:50men in our community.
15:51Because we've been stripped so much from the action and they're like, should all the men
15:58have started cop?
15:59No, like why can't we just get to the point where a person is not being arrested so that
16:04nobody's having to fight anyone?
16:05You know, but I don't, but we're, we're not there.
16:08We're in a place where sisters are really, we have to protect and defend our brothers
16:15in a way that is, is even for me, it's exhausting.
16:20It's exhausting.
16:21You know, understanding that we've never, I'm sorry, understanding that our men have
16:28never even taught how to process emotion.
16:32My dad, you know, I know I don't kill you a lot, but, but I do love you.
16:39So you don't even know how to process emotion.
16:42And so we're doing that.
16:43And then I ain't trying to do what you said, Janelle, trying to figure out how to protect
16:47our brothers.
16:48It's a lot of pressure on us as women.
16:51And so, yeah, we show up in the space and you're right.
16:53We like to hell with it.
16:54I'm the woman, the man, I'm everything today.
16:56Let's get this, like what needs to be done.
16:59But that role has been created for us, right?
17:02Because I mean, just if you think about the fact that you have the school to prison pipeline,
17:07they're looking at these children's test scores to determine where the jail should be.
17:11And then they're sending them that way.
17:13They're categorizing the children into these various special education classes because of
17:18their behavior.
17:19We're also looking at the fact that too many of them are being jailed.
17:23Too many of them are being killed.
17:24Not to mention if you're in corporate America, the concessions you make about your dignity,
17:29your livelihood, or your life, right?
17:31And so then what does that mean in terms of the role as to your point, Samika, for black
17:35women to have to take on, we have to be everything that a man has to be if they are no longer
17:39there.
17:40And I mean, no longer there, whether in presence or spirit to make up for that and then also
17:46be a woman.
17:47And I was listening to Tawana Burke talk recently.
17:50She was doing a podcast with Brene Brown.
17:53I was really interested in her work.
17:55And what she talked about was the fact that what she knew, she knew how to survive.
18:01She knew how to be strong.
18:02She knew how to lead.
18:04What she had to learn was how to be soft enough to be loved and to be taken care of,
18:09to cohabitate.
18:11Because who's teaching us to partner, right?
18:14When we have to be everything.
18:15And it's not as though we want to be everything.
18:18It is just that, again, from generation to generation.
18:22And quite frankly, it is an imprint on us.
18:25It is an imprint on black women.
18:27There's an imprint on black men, on white men and white women from slavery.
18:31And we continue to act that way.
18:32That's how we show up.
18:33Because again, we haven't dealt with it and we haven't healed.
18:36So until we can heal, how can we bring the black family together?
18:39Until we ask for accountability and dismantle every institution that's within our society and
18:45then reconstructed, how can we possibly bring the black families together?
18:49Because I believe that we need to have justice today.
18:52I believe we need to deal with the police, but then we have to deal with health care.
18:55And then we have to deal with education.
18:57I mean, there's so many different areas that directly relate to what's happening in our homes.
19:01You would be exhausted by all these things that you're trying to accomplish.
19:05And then how do you show up in a romantic way?
19:07How do you show up just in terms of how you want to be responsible to your family?
19:11How does the woman know when it's okay and safe to lay down the burden so that she can
19:17be the softer side of herself?
19:19And what does it mean for men to walk around in fear that they'll be murdered, yet we need
19:24them to come home and take that off so that we can get back into that romantic space?
19:29And so maybe they're frustrated by this weird power dynamic that's being created where both
19:34people are kind of fighting for the same space to be the head of their family or to be the
19:39head of their household when really they're both struggling.
19:42They both want to be able to play whatever roles they agree to.
19:45And they're both kind of all over the place.
19:47And sometimes because of ego, it really gets in the way because we're trying to connect.
19:53But if you're stepping on your partner's toes all the time and you don't have an understanding
19:57about who's going to do what, and one of the partners feels overwhelmed that they're doing
20:02what they feel like is more than their own fair share, that's how we start to slowly break
20:08apart and move away from each other.
20:10We're frustrated and it plays itself out in our relationships, but it's really from the
20:14outside coming in.
20:16And if we don't get a handle on it, it will take us down.
20:19And they've been trying.
20:20I mean, they've been trying for centuries to break us apart.
20:23They've done everything they can.
20:24We're still holding on.
20:25So I feel hopeful that we will get to it, but it's going to take a lot of work.
20:29And we have to be willing to be honest about what we see and where we both could be doing
20:34something very different to support each other.
20:36Absolutely.
20:37Speaking of needing to be honest, I overheard a conversation.
20:41This was a while back between a Black and a white woman, and they were friends.
20:46The Black woman said, well, I was raised to be fierce.
20:49And the white woman didn't quite know how to respond, but eventually her response amounted
20:55to I was raised to be feminine.
20:57Do you see that difference?
20:58It's like, as Black women, we are raised to be strong.
21:03We are raised to be independent, to take care of ourselves and everyone else around us.
21:10I don't want to make a blanket statement, but I can say that from observing that conversation,
21:15having my own relationships with many non-Black women, there is definitely a difference in our
21:21upbringing because many non-Black women are raised to be taken care of.
21:26If we are raised to be the caretakers.
21:31Right.
21:32I have to run, Andre.
21:35I have to go.
21:36I'm so sorry.
21:37I made another commitment.
21:38Thank you, sister.
21:39I'm sorry.
21:39I was just going to leave us with this one short thought, which is that one of the ways
21:44in which our brothers can show up for sisters in this moment is by supporting Breela,
21:50making sure that we don't allow her name to the wayside because it can happen and it happens
21:58all the time where Breonna, a woman is murdered like a Tatiana Jefferson and so many others
22:03and it doesn't take long before it's out of the news and we're focusing on the men, which
22:09we should be.
22:09But we also have to make sure that we continue to say Breonna Taylor's name.
22:14So thank y'all for having me.
22:15I'm sorry that I'm learning.
22:17No.
22:19Thank you, sister Tamika.
22:22You're out there fighting the fight.
22:23So we wouldn't want to keep you.
22:25We love you.
22:27Well, to sister's point, you know, Tatiana Jefferson, Sandra Bland.
22:31And again, we can go on and on, unfortunately, because that list continues to grow.
22:37But picking up where we sort of left off, which is really important, you know, I often
22:45say that I have a 15-year-old daughter.
22:49And as a father, I can't teach my daughter how to be a woman because that's my wife's job.
22:55I can't teach my daughter how to be something I'm not.
22:57But my contribution is extremely important in the life of my daughter because I am my
23:04daughter's dress rehearsal in how to be in relationship with a man.
23:10And so every day, my daughter gets reps.
23:14She gets to practice being in relationship with a man.
23:19You know, how her language can either activate me or deactivate me, right?
23:25How I treat her.
23:26She already watches how I treat my wife, but then she also gets to see how I treat her
23:32because I take my daughter out on dates, right?
23:35So what are some of the things that, since this is the Dear Black Men panel, what are
23:45some of the things that our brothers can do that will further activate you in the strength
23:51of us being unified as men and women, as Black people?
23:57So I just remember having a conversation with a reverend I know, and he said to me how important
24:04it is to explain to each other in relationship what certain things mean to you.
24:09Because we're coming from very distinct and different paths when we meet, and then we're
24:15at the starting point and we have to figure out, well, what's our life going to be?
24:18But we have some assumptions already based on what we've seen.
24:22So, for example, he said he and his wife, when he went to, they were going to go on an
24:26errand, he asked her to drive.
24:28He gave her the keys.
24:29And it became a huge argument.
24:31She didn't want to drive and he didn't want to drive.
24:33And they argued in the driveway for a long time.
24:36And then finally what it came down to was for him, he was offering her the opportunity to
24:41take the lead because what he'd always grown up with was that his father never made space
24:46for his mother to be an equal, right?
24:49That was never communicated though to his wife because they were pretty early in their marriage.
24:54Now, on the other side, she'd always had her father drive to take care of her mother.
25:01That was their love language to your point, Samika.
25:03And I think that if we can just make space to have conversations about meaning, right?
25:09So it doesn't, the same thing doesn't mean everything.
25:12I love to cook, so I don't mind it.
25:15That's not domesticating me necessarily and putting me into a corner, but it might feel
25:19that way for somebody else, right?
25:22If some, it just, I think depending on just having a comfort space for you to be able to
25:26explain yourself, and I guess that comes back to safety and trust and building that for
25:32each other so that you can really communicate, especially when things are tense and hard,
25:36you know, what we talked about before, when you're coming in with so much that you're carrying.
25:42Dr. Michelle?
25:43That's big.
25:44You know, I was thinking about my own upbringing, and I was raised by, my parents divorced when
25:51I was really young, and so I was raised by my mom.
25:54And it wasn't until you become an adult and you're in your own marriage and relationship
25:58that you realize all the things you really did not know and did not learn, or the things
26:02that you learned that were so unhealthy from your experience.
26:06And so sometimes I think we struggle in sort of letting go of that control and trying to
26:11define our partner when we need to go ahead and let them have the space to come in and
26:16affect us in a certain kind of way.
26:18And so one of the things I love about Black men is when they do step in the gap for the
26:23others who couldn't do it, who chose not to do it.
26:26My uncle was my father figure, so he stepped into that space and helped me, helped my mom,
26:32helped really all the women in our family, but that comes from some place too, right?
26:36If you're coming from a more difficult, frustrating place, you may not have it to give.
26:42And so that becomes another one of the concerns about how well people are doing.
26:45They can only give you what they have, what their capacity is.
26:48You may be looking for, you may be a gallon, and you're trying to pour yourself into a cup.
26:53And so we have to understand where each of us is coming from and hopefully be able to have
27:00those conversations about what we can do to bring each other along in the process.
27:07Love it.
27:07Sister Janelle?
27:10You know, I think we are raised to survive and part of survival often mandates a fight.
27:19And when you're in constant fight mode, it is impossible to be but so feminine.
27:29Totally.
27:29And so to your question, I think that a lot of us feel guilty when we just sit still.
27:38We feel like I'm supposed to be doing something.
27:40I'm supposed to be somehow furthering my survival.
27:43But I think that we need to make space to just sit still and listen to one another,
27:49learn the love languages.
27:51And so if your partner's love language or your father's love language or your father figure
27:55or your brother's love language is communication, then make space to have those talks.
28:00If it's acts of service, make time to get together to do something and bond just so that you allow
28:07yourself the space to breathe and not be in constant fight or survival mode.
28:12And I think that that will help in some, it has to.
28:17That's such a good point you made about the love language because a lot of times we have
28:21these expectations based on what we see in everyone else's lives and world about how your
28:26partner should be treating you.
28:28And sometimes you have to understand, well, this is what they have to give.
28:32It might not be showing you their love and concern the way you want to see it,
28:35but the things that they may be doing could very explicitly be them trying to show you that
28:40they care.
28:41So, but if your mind's not open to that, you miss it and you think they don't care because
28:45they didn't say something or they didn't spend the time, maybe their love language is something
28:49else and you need to have the conversation to get to it.
28:53And you can only learn it when you make the space to have that conversation or to figure
28:57it out.
28:58You have to stop at some point and employ the airplane analogy, which is that you have to
29:03put on your mask first in order to help someone else.
29:06You have to make sure that you are okay before trying to ensure that someone else is.
29:12You know, this is, you know, even if you're not an expert in any specific area, what we're
29:22really talking about is we're talking about the root of relationship, right?
29:28Every great relationship is about how well each partner listens to each other, right?
29:36So oftentimes we're constantly dictating, well, here's what you should do.
29:42Here's what you should go.
29:43You guys, we need to do, we need to do that.
29:45And very seldom do we get into a space where like now we're sitting with each other and asking
29:52each other the questions and listening to what the other needs.
29:58I really feel like during this time, are there times, whether it's your brother, your father,
30:08and uncle to Dr. Michelle's point, are there times now where because of all of the hope,
30:15the fear, and what I was speaking about earlier, the grief and the rage, do you find yourself
30:20now mindfully sitting with the black men in your life to listen to where they are?
30:29Sister Paisis, how about you?
30:32Yeah, I've had over the last two weeks made space for a man I love to cry.
30:41And we didn't know that was going to come, but it needed to.
30:46And I think it's interesting because when we talk about what do we need, we've been, again,
30:51coping through so much trauma.
30:54I don't know how in touch we are with what we need because I don't know how in touch we
30:57are with our true rage.
30:58I've gone through so many different emotions over the last two weeks alone and rage keeps
31:04coming back.
31:04You know, so in terms of just making space, I just try to give.
31:08I try to give of myself or sometimes they just need the space and I try to honor that
31:13as well.
31:14To your point, Janelle, just about being still, I also think having fun because there's so
31:22much pain.
31:24And so maybe it's a game night.
31:26Maybe it's just watching a really fun movie.
31:28Maybe it's just cuddling up, you know, or taking a walk through the park.
31:32I mean, there's not many places we can go, but Target right now and the grocery store,
31:37but I'm in New York, so we haven't really opened anything.
31:40But, you know, I think going for a bike ride, I found those to be healing, being in the sun,
31:46the simplicity.
31:47In a way, COVID introduced simplicity.
31:50And so in that simplicity, there is a lot that comes up, but we've been so quiet for so
31:56long that we can actually start to hear ourselves in each other.
31:59So for me, it's just been about just being in those moments and being present.
32:05Absolutely.
32:06I think to your, go ahead, Dr. Michelle.
32:10I was just going to say that's, I think, a lot of how I'm experiencing it too, because
32:13sometimes the men in your life, they aren't talking and it wouldn't matter if you ask them
32:18to talk.
32:18They don't process it by talking to you as a woman, as their partner, whatever.
32:25Like they're off wanting to handle it their way.
32:27And so what I've had to learn, especially during COVID, where kind of everybody is in
32:31each other's space, is to be comfortable with some silence.
32:36Or, as she said, maybe go and do something fun so you're not constantly talking about
32:41this, so you're not constantly, well, because we watch the news all day, every day, you think
32:45you're going to miss something.
32:46And new things keep coming up every day.
32:49So you think, well, how many times can we have this same conversation before we're all
32:54going to start to go a little bit crazy up in here?
32:56Yet you have to have it.
32:57So I think it ends up being like this dance where if there's an opening, you can kind of
33:01jump into it and take advantage of it.
33:03But if people are saying like, look, just give me some space.
33:07I like to talk.
33:08Other people sometimes don't.
33:09So I do think it gets back to being simpatico with your partner.
33:15Yeah, honestly, when I said sit still, when I said sit still, it was because I was afraid
33:22to say, have fun.
33:24And how crazy is that?
33:26I don't know that other races feel that.
33:29They don't.
33:30You know, if we talk in this moment, right, if we talk in this moment about having fun
33:34amidst all the mania, all the madness, it just feels wrong.
33:41But that's what I meant.
33:42When I said sit still, that looks different for everybody.
33:44I just meant not be, don't be in constant go, go, go mode.
33:48I've got to build my career, build my website, build my social media following.
33:52Like, just be.
33:54And it's okay to just be because, you know, while this revolution is being televised,
34:00there are so many roles for all of us to play.
34:03Everyone is not going to be on the front lines like our sister Tameka Mallory.
34:08You know, on this panel, the way I contextualize it, you know, we have Tameka who is out
34:15activating, if that can say such a thing, but being an activist, like on the front lines,
34:23trying to advance our causes.
34:26And then we have Pai Isis who, in her work in philanthropy, is helping to fund, you know,
34:33that work and those causes.
34:34We have Dr. Michelle, who is helping us to treat the traumas that we are experiencing,
34:40whether on the front lines or behind.
34:43And, you know, I'm just here so I won't get fined.
34:47No, I'm just playing.
34:47I am here to, you know, to try to help us all contextualize everything.
34:55And so as far as how we're making space for the men in our lives, I referenced my brother
35:01earlier and I'll reference him again.
35:02But I was overhearing a conversation that he put together for his company because they are
35:14a black owned and operated digital advertising agency with huge clients like Color of Change,
35:22Google, Facebook.
35:23They're doing big business and I'm very proud of them.
35:26But they recognize the need to make space for each other every week amidst all of this to
35:33have a virtual liquor-less happy hour, to make it just that, to make the focus on, you know,
35:40whether talking about something happy or not so happy.
35:44And so in this particular conversation, I was moved to tears because I overheard one of his
35:50employees, a young father who's normally got the biggest smile, you know, just infectious smile.
35:58I've never seen him show this type of emotion.
36:01He broke down in tears and he said it's because he does not know what to say to his five-year-old
36:07daughter.
36:08He doesn't know how to explain to her what's going on.
36:10He doesn't know how to explain to her what racism is and why her daddy is afraid if she's in the
36:18car with him and the police pull up.
36:21And so to hear him have that vulnerable moment and to see the support that was offered to him
36:26by my brother and his partners as they just made space for each other moved me to tears.
36:32I had to walk away because I didn't want to, you know, I just, I guess I fell into part of what
36:41we, uh, we often feel, which is that we have to be strong for our men.
36:47And, uh, you know, it's a vicious cycle.
36:48They have to, they feel they have to be strong for us.
36:50We feel we have to be strong for them.
36:52Everybody's always so strong, strong, strong.
36:54And sometimes you just have to be right.
36:58You know, I, this is really important.
37:01My, my, uh, uh, a good brother, friend of mine, um, uh, Jason Wilson wrote a powerful book
37:08called cry like a man and, um, um, we often talk about how even, you know, in my book, just
37:16talking about being males and matriculating into manhood and what that looks like and how
37:24important it is to allow ourselves the space to be able to cry.
37:29I call crying the emotional throw up of life, right?
37:33So if you ate something bad, your body would regurgitate that because there are toxins
37:40in whatever you ate.
37:42And so your, your, your body knows that in order for those toxins to pass out of you,
37:48the poisonous, um, space of what you just ate to pass out of you, you have to regurgitate
37:53it.
37:53Well, emotionally speaking, when you feel like you have to cry, you're releasing toxins as
37:59you cry, but so many of us prevent ourselves from crying.
38:04I want to talk about how important it is not only for us to make a space for our men to
38:10be able to cry safely.
38:11That's one of the reasons why honestly you all outlive us because you may have the permission
38:18to cry and we don't.
38:20So I want to talk about how important it is for us to give our men permission to cry.
38:27And then also maybe cry with us because to the point we're experiencing so much trauma,
38:35we should be, make it safe for us to be able to cry together.
38:40Sister Pia Isis, speak about that.
38:42I think that's interesting because I think sometimes it shows up at home because we're
38:47meant to be strong women.
38:50It happens on the other side too.
38:53You know, can we be weak?
38:55Can we show vulnerability?
38:56Can we cry?
38:57Is there a space for that?
38:58So I think you're absolutely right.
38:59I'm so glad that you brought it up because it's not uncommon that we would make space
39:04for the vulnerability for men who are not socialized.
39:07Men are not socialized to show that.
39:09Let's just say we move forward and then to have that space for black men.
39:13In turn, that's what we need too.
39:16We need to have safety to be that softness and to be able to get to the softness.
39:20To your point, we have to purge through.
39:22So what is required to build the safety net within our home spaces so that we can get there?
39:28I think the other piece of it that I just thought a little bit about I wanted to share
39:33with you all, I think that part of our mourning is because what we're dealing with in terms
39:39of trauma, we've been having so many concessions and dealing with the trauma from such a young
39:45age, we've seen this, right?
39:46I remember Rodney King.
39:48I remember Amadou Diallo.
39:50I mean, there are different points in your life when you can see what's happening.
39:53And so in a way, we're also healing the little people inside of us.
39:57And so I think it's important for us to be close to children and to really be with children
40:05because they're still so innocent in some ways and connect with their playfulness and
40:10their ability to dream and their ability to connect with crying as well, to release and
40:14express their emotions.
40:15I think that helps to pull out the little girl inside of me, the little boy inside of
40:20my love.
40:21You know, it just depends.
40:21But I think that that's also a really good strategy to consider.
40:24I want to make space for you, D'Andre, because I think that first, the work that you're doing
40:32behind the camera is so important.
40:37I don't know how many people know, but D'Andre is a counselor.
40:42He helps to counsel couples.
40:44And I think that the work that you're doing in your book, as you can see on his shirt,
40:49Male vs. Man, is also so important.
40:51And so I'm not asking you to speak for all Black men, but I know that in your work as
40:56a counselor and in your research for your book, you have spoken to many.
41:00So I want to ask you, what do you need?
41:03What can we do for you?
41:05You know, I said earlier, I don't want to make assumptions.
41:07I really want to hear from you.
41:12Now you're trying to make me cry.
41:14I see what's happening.
41:15I see what's going on.
41:16Okay.
41:17That was the violence.
41:19Okay.
41:19I see what you're trying to do.
41:24I can't tell you.
41:25So this is such a powerful...
41:32To be in front of three sister queens that are walking in femininity and then being able
41:51to take a second to check on brother is so...
42:00I rock for my people.
42:03I rock for my community.
42:05I obviously rock for my family, my wife, my children.
42:09But there are times when it feels like we can't take the cape off and be safe enough
42:23to say, to your point earlier, that today I'm not okay.
42:29My birthday just recently passed and we had a few couples here and we were all talking about
42:36how we could better relate to one another.
42:42And I charged my brothers with the fact that we have to do a better job of communicating
42:47with our wives and telling them that today we're not okay.
42:51Because every single day I'm challenged with keeping the Incredible Hulk in the bottle
42:59because I'm in a rage over what's going on.
43:05And if my wife is asking me a simple question about, can you take the garbage out?
43:11What's the weather going to be like today?
43:12Can you make a phone call?
43:13She has no idea that David Banner's eyes are turning light and I'm about to turn green.
43:21And my job is to be able to communicate with the most important queen in my life
43:29next to my mother, which is to say, babe, today I'm in an emotional cocoon
43:38and I'm going to need some gauze in the way of some hugs and some kisses.
43:47I'm going to be all right in a minute, but right now I'm not okay.
43:52And I'm going to need some protein in the way of some loving, soft language, a couple of kisses
44:01and some hugs that feel like, hey, you regenerate me with your hugs.
44:09You regenerate me with your kisses.
44:11And you will deactivate me with warrior language because I'm already a warrior.
44:20I got us covered.
44:22I don't need you to be more warrior.
44:24I got it.
44:25Because in the end, I'm just going to be a hundred.
44:28If somebody walks through that door, I am going to be the one to lay my life down
44:35to make sure that you and the children make it.
44:39What I need from you is a recharge in that love language.
44:45So this is a supremely powerful moment.
44:48So that's what I need from my sister.
44:52And I would dare say that many of our brothers are not vulnerable enough to say
44:58that that's what they need from you all as well.
45:02Yeah, they may not be able to use any words at all.
45:04It may be coming out in those forms of frustration and pushing away distancies.
45:10Like, oh, she's asking too many questions, so let me go in another room.
45:12Let me turn on something to distract me.
45:15Let me try to get away while I get myself back together and come back.
45:18Again, you don't have to go away and get yourself together and come back.
45:21You can take your cape off right here.
45:24Right here.
45:24But I do think the women are sometimes struggling because they have the same fear of that female version of David Banner.
45:32And I think sometimes we feel like we've held in so much trauma for so long that we feel that if we were to open our mouths
45:40and start to confess what we were feeling and allow that thing to go through us, it would break us.
45:46We feel like we will be on the ground, under the bed, balled up in the fetal position, like we would just lose it, completely lose it.
45:55And we can't be fearful of that because then you become stoic, then you're all frozen.
46:00We have to live through it.
46:01And one of the things I thought about when you were talking is that we can also support each other with the other members of our families and with our friends.
46:10So if you are in a difficult moment with your partner and you feel like you may not be having the kind of conversations you need to have
46:18or you may not be supported in a certain way, if you've got that trusted friend or that person in your family who can support you,
46:26that's not trying to say, girl, let me tell you.
46:27No, that's just trying to help bring you to a safe space so that you and your family can continue on.
46:34That's a tremendous blessing too, right?
46:37Because sometimes it's just, it's too much pressure with just the two people in the couple.
46:41They need some time away from each other, right?
46:43And if you pick the right friends and family, those people will help feed you, will help bolster you,
46:49maybe hold you while you bawl and cry your eyes out in a way you wouldn't want to burden your partner with.
46:55So it's an opportunity there as well.
46:58You know what?
47:01First of all, I said when we started this conversation that we were not going to have enough time to have it.
47:08I feel like there needs to be a part two, part three to this conversation.
47:13Yes, indeed.
47:14The exact same panel.
47:16I can't tell you sisters how much this conversation means to me as a black man.
47:23And I want you to know we are here to cover you.
47:28We are going to help make it safe for you, even through us not feeling safe.
47:35We got to make sure that you all are safe.
47:39And the way we get safety in you is knowing that we don't get judged when we don't feel as strong as we sometimes could be.
47:48So my sisters, Sister Pia Isis, Dr. Michelle, Sister Janelle, oh my gosh.
47:57Immediately, part two.
48:01Immediately.
48:02Come in.
48:03Come in.
48:03Me too.
48:04Thank you all for being with us.
48:06We will be back in part two.
48:09Virtual hugs.
48:10Virtual hugs.
48:11Yes, virtual hugs.
48:12Thank you, ladies.
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